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Winter Wrap-Up 02: Mathematizing Children’s Literature

Promotional graphic for Math Teacher Lounge podcast, episode 2, featuring Allison Hintz and Antony Smith, discussing how mathematizing children's literature can build math fluency.

While we’re hard at work producing the exciting fifth season of Math Teacher Lounge: The Podcast, we’re continuing to share some of our favorite conversations from our first four seasons. This time around, we’re revisiting our popular episode that connected literacy and math!

In this episode, we sit down with Allison Hintz and Antony Smith, authors of Mathematizing Children’s Literature, to talk about what would happen if we were to approach children’s literature, and life, through a math lens–and how we can apply those same techniques to classroom teaching!

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

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Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:02):

Hi, I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:04):

Hi, I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:05):

And we are so excited for another episode of Math Teacher Lounge. And as you know, podcast format; you’re listening now. I think one beautiful thing about the podcast format is that it gives us a little bit more time to have these rich conversations. And I promise I won’t do it, but I could talk to our guests for hours, hours! Authors Allison Hintz and Tony Smith have just released Mathematizing Children’s Literature: Sparking Connections, Joy, and Wonder Through Read-Alouds and Discussion. And today we get to talk to the authors. Allison, Tony, welcome. Welcome to the lounge.

Allison Hintz (00:53):

Thank you. We’re so grateful to be here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:55):

We’re so excited to have you here. And I wanna say that my very first—was it my first math conference? Maybe it was my first math conference—up in Seattle, the CGI conference, and I’m all like, you know, wide-eyed and just like, “Can this be a place for me, this math community?” Re-envisioning my relationship with math and thinking about myself as a math teacher, what? And I went to your session on mathematizing children’s literature, and I was just so fired up. I was so wowed by your ideas, your energy, and your passion for students’ thinking. And I feel like as I read this book, I felt like I was hanging out with you. Like you were just so encouraging all the way through. Of educators, of other folks working with young people, and really guiding us how to listen with joy and with an open curious mind.

Dan Meyer (02:03):

Yeah. I would love to hear a bit about the genesis of this book for you folks. Like, I’m coming at this from a secondary educator lens. I’ve got small kids, so that’s also part of my interest here. But I love any book, any idea that seeks to merge what seems like two disparate worlds. Like it’s often the case that we feel like, well, there’s approaches for ELA and approaches for math, and they’re kind of separate disciplines. And these poor elementary teachers have to learn all of them and be experts at all of them. And here you both come along and say, “Hey, what if they are the same kind of technique?” Can you just speak to how this came about?

Allison Hintz (02:38):

Definitely. Tony, do you wanna take a try? Do you want me to start us off?

Antony Smith (02:42):

I can start. We oftentimes present and talk together and so we kinda switch back and forth. So that’s just how we are. So probably about eight or nine years ago, Allison and I, our offices were next to each other on our small campus. We’re both professors and we just happened to have a few children’s books that we looked at together and we were just thumbing through the pages. We really liked children’s literature. And we noticed that I would stop at certain points wondering about character motive or plot or sequence of events or language use. And Allison would stop at very different points in the book and notice number and concepts or something about mathematics. And that’s when we started to wonder, what would it be like if we were sharing a children’s book with a group of children and we put our ideas together? Where would we stop? What would we talk about? What would we ask children about in terms of their thinking and what they notice?

Allison Hintz (03:42):

And so we started playing with these questions that we had and started approaching stories with multiple lenses to see what kinds of things would children notice and what kinds of things might they say. And we were also on our own journey in trying to understand how to plan for and facilitate lively discussions and classrooms that surface really complex mathematics. And it felt like stories were a place where that might be a fruitful context for hearing children’s thinking. We’ve worked with a lot of teachers and students in our region. We live in the Seattle area and we’ve applied for some funding over time that’s really helped us be in a lot of community-based organizations and educational contexts and libraries and pediatricians’ offices and classrooms, various classrooms, and see what’s interesting about this and what might teachers and children do with stories that would surface complex mathematics to think about together.

Antony Smith (04:41):

Over time, we came to the realization that if we wanted to hear children’s ideas, we had to stop bombarding them with questions. <laugh> Yeah. And at first it made it worse that we were asking them math and literacy questions at the same time. And so we realized that what we needed to do was to back off and to ask children what they noticed and wondered.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:01):

Can you say more about that and how that kind of evolved into mathematizing children’s literature?

Antony Smith (05:07):

We did work with a number of very thoughtful, talented classroom teachers and children’s librarians in public library systems who were just so masterful at asking open-ended prompts and questions, rather than kind of like the de facto reading quiz, that a read-aloud can become, which I’ve always disliked as a literacy educator. And we realized in our observing these read-alouds or interactive read-alouds or shared reading experiences that given the opportunity in the space and an adult who was actually listening, that children came up with all of the ideas we would have asked them about and more. So we didn’t have to be bombarding them with questions. They were already much more thoughtful than what would’ve been sufficient to answer our questions.

Allison Hintz (05:58):

And much like mathematics, it was really an iterative process. You know, we had some clunky read-aloud discussions where we were trying to accomplish so much and toggling multiple chart papers and different colored pens and all sorts of “how do we capture these ideas” and “do we separate ’em? do we keep ’em together?” And so it’s really been over time that with partners, we’ve learned these ways of having multiple reads of the same story that allow us to hear what children notice and wonder, and then to delve more deeply into their questions and their ideas through multiple reads where we might spotlight literary ideas that they notice; we might spotlight mathematical ideas that they notice. We might make purposeful integrations between those. But we found it to be most productive—and Kristin Gray really help us think about this—to have an open Notice and Wonder, get everything out much like an open-strategy share. We welcome here, record all the ideas, and it goes all over everywhere. You know, it can be a really not math-y noticing! And those are amazing! So there’s a lot of, um, yes, there is a ladybug on this page! The grandma is wearing green triangle earrings! Oh, your grandma wears green earrings! I mean, it all comes out.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:27):

Wait, have you been in my classroom? ‘Cause that’s exactly— <laugh>

Allison Hintz (07:29):

<laugh> And then, you know, we think of it a lot like if math teachers might use the 5 Practices for selecting and sequencing, or if you might move from an open-strategy share to a targeted share, how can we get out all the questions that children are asking and then step back from them, take some time to really think about what they’re telling us they’re curious about, and plan some purposeful, intentional subsequent discussions that can delve more deeply into their ideas.

Dan Meyer (08:02):

I’d love to go into that a little bit more if that’s all right. Um, I’m gonna speak from someone who doesn’t have an elementary background and I’m gonna voice some worries that I had, some anxiety. One anxiety I have like in a classroom or a curriculum is when there’s no room for student ideas. Right? When it’s like, oh, there’s just room for the curriculum author or the teacher here. That is a sadness. But I when I see an instructional environment like you’re describing here, where there is openness to all kinds of different student ideas, of different levels of formality, from different kinds of cultural fonts of knowledge or wherever, I also get a little bit nervous because that, like, increases the risk that a student might come to understand that “my ideas are not good enough,” whereas in the class with no room for their ideas from their home or their language or their hobbies, like, they’re not gonna internalize the message that, “that wasn’t good enough.” And so I’m really curious as you move from the open Notice and Wonder where kids share all of themselves with you, and then you move to a targeted focus on some sort of disciplinary objective, how do you navigate that tension and help students feel like their contributions are valuable, even though we aren’t taking them up per se?

Allison Hintz (09:18):

That’s such an important question. I mean, I think we’ve grappled with this broadly in math education. I think any time we’re thinking about which ideas we choose to take up to pursue to consider, we have a responsibility to think carefully about whose ideas are being taken up and heard and considered. And so one of the tensions I hear you naming, I think, Dan, is when we engage in lively discussion where children’s thinking’s at the center, how do we make sure to upend and interrupt kinda status norms that run the risk of being deepened? Um, and I think by paying attention to whose ideas are taken up as much as which ideas are taken up, and what’s the mathematics we wanna explore is one tension. Um, another tension I might hear you naming is, you know, the complications that teachers face with time and pressure and coverage, and which mathematics ends up getting worked on. And, um, you know, it’s something we’ve really had to struggle with in mathematics education, where we move to more discussion-oriented classrooms that are really centered in sense-making to know that it takes a lot of time to do this thoughtful, thoughtful work. Um, does that begin to get at some of the tensions you’re raising? Is there, is there more you’re thinking about?

Dan Meyer (10:53):

I think it’s really helpful that you kind of broadened the scope of the question beyond your book to “this is an issue that we are, you know, really challenged by and focused on broadly in math education.” And, um, I appreciate you bringing the element in of whose idea—not just which idea is taken up, but whose idea is taken up—is an opportunity where, let’s say, multiple people raise an idea that is towards an objective the teacher has, they have the opportunity to disrupt certain kinds of status, like ideas about status, in that moment. From your perspective, like, are there techniques to say, I don’t know, parking-lot certain kinds of questions and say like, “Hey, like these are awesome”? I don’t know. I just know that I see kids at like ninth grade. They are very reticent, often. They’ve internalized totally this sense of like, “I’m not gonna just, like, share about the pants the grandma’s wearing, you know; that will not be received well.” And so I’m just kinda wondering how that happens and like, what are the ways we can disrupt that? That process?

Antony Smith (11:54):

So thinking about that, Dan, from the teacher’s perspective, in those kinds of scenarios where you wanna honor each child’s contribution, a couple of things that come to mind: One is that by, you know, initially by modeling what I as a teacher, something that I notice or wonder about, helps kind of set the expectation for what kind of response would be encouraged. And it’s broad, but it gives an example. And then also we really try to record or to chart all of the ideas that are shared so that we can revisit and honor those together. And then either later or on another day, if we choose one or two of those to explore in some way within a more focused read, then another thing that we do is have the idea investigation afterward that continues that thought, but goes back to being as open-ended as possible, so that those students or children who maybe didn’t have their idea as the one that was focused on by the group could go back to that or explore some other idea of their own, so that the idea investigation isn’t a lockstep extension activity, which is why we don’t call it that. So they could again bring in their own perspective. But I have to say from the teacher’s point of view, there is that moment of potential panic <laugh> because there is that power transfer when you’re asking children to help steer where this is going. And if you really mean it, you have to let them steer a little bit. And that can be terrifying. And, um, I always think of one teacher, Ashley, we worked with who read an adorable book, Stack the Cats, by Susie Ghahremani. And in that book, there’s a point where there are eight cats and they’re kind of trying to be a tower of cats and they fall and they’re sort of in the air on that page. And she asked her first graders—she stopped, and she asked, “How, do you think, how will the cats land?” And for about a minute and a half, the entire <laugh> class, was silent. They had their little papers; they had chart paper; they had clipboards; they had everything they needed. But that unusual phenomenon of a group of six- and seven-year-olds actually just sitting and thinking and not being peppered with activities was really stressful, but amazing. And then, after about the 90 seconds, they started out into their exploration of how the eight cats might land. They just needed a minute to think. And it’s so rare that we’re able to let children have that.

Allison Hintz (14:40):

In that same moment, Ashley, who’s a learning partner to us, she turned to us kind of quietly, like, “Should I pose a different question?” And <laugh>, we’re like, “No, let’s stick with it. Let’s see what happens.” So I think it creates this space too, this thinking culture, right? And this culture of “what does that mean to really pose a rich task?That’s open-ended, where there’s multiple access points?” Those eight cats could land in so many different ways. And there was broad access, there was a wide range of all the cats landing, and one’s on their feet, ’cause cats always land on their feet <laugh>, and there was every combination. And so, um, I think what’s really interesting—and to me, this brings back to your wonder, Dan—is, you know, “What’s the risk in openness?” And there’s always risk in openness. Um, it’s scary as a teacher, right? If I’m not the authority of knowledge and I don’t have control over where we’re gonna go, it might get into places that I didn’t anticipate. Or I don’t really feel as solid in the math as I want to. Or I don’t know what it sounds like to stick with silence and wait time, to know if my students are really in productive struggle or if that question was a flop. And so, um, I think this is some practice space for young mathematicians and teachers of mathematics, and just teachers, to explore with that openness and kind of the risk of the openness required for complex thinking to emerge.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:12):

You know, it feels like the way you’re both describing this, it really is a culture shift, right? I kept feeling like I was given permission to be a beginner as I read this book. Like I was really…I loved how you said, I believe it was you, Allison, when you were in the class, you had a couple index card that you kept on your clipboard and that as you walked around, you were like, “Hey, if I don’t know what to ask, I ask one of these questions.” You know? And just this idea that, that, like Dan was saying, there is that loss of control, but that’s also a way to create this culture where students ideas are valued and we are allowing students to really generate the questions, which I thought was such an important idea to explore.

Allison Hintz (17:00):

We started this work long ago, super-excited about math-y books. And we saw a lot of potential in them and we still do. But the limitation we saw is that math-y books, they, they put forth a certain mathematics to be curious about. In some ways they tell you what mathematics to think about. So we started asking ourselves what would happen if we considered any story a chance to engage as mathematical sense-makers. And we started playing with non-math-y books and we got to a place where we could consider every story an opportunity to engage in mathematical thinking. And so we started noticing things over times, oh, these books tend to be really math-y. We call those text-dependent. We’d have to pay attention to the mathematics to understand the story. Whereas this pile of stories, these, they’re not overtly math-y. You could really enjoy the story and not pay attention to mathematics and have an amazing conversation. But what would happen if we thought of about this story as mathematical sense-makers and how might it deepen our understanding of the story? And then this other teetering pile of books, these are books where, you know, children didn’t tend to engage as overtly as mathematicians in it, but there’s opportunities in this story to go back to something—to a moment, to an illustration, to a comment—and think as mathematicians. And those were more about illustration exploring. And so, as we notice these different kinds of books, we really broaden what we thought about. And I think one of the things we really wanna think about in community through this book is what happens if we approach any story, every story, as mathematical sense-makers, because stories are alive in children’s lives, in homes and communities and in schools. And it’s a broad opportunity that we wanna take up. I was thinking, as I stay in this strait for just a moment about book selection, before we move into that process, um, Bethany in a previous MTL, you talked about representation.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:12):

Mm, yeah.

Allison Hintz (19:14):

And do you remember when you shared the image of hair braiding?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:19):

Yes. Vividly, yes. <laugh>.

Allison Hintz (19:22):

Yeah. And can you say just what that meant to you? What that….

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:27):

Yeah. Well, it was from a conference; Sunil Singh had used it and was talking about the artistry in mathematics and beauty in hair braiding. And, um, particularly, he was showing this particular image of this Black woman with her hair braided in profile and looking at the angles and the symmetry. And I shared that, you know, I spent so many hours in the beauty shop with my aunties and my mom and my grandma and continue to, to this day, that it just, it struck me immediately as familiar. And it struck me immediately as seeing an image that was reflective of my lived reality, projected as valuable and worthwhile for consideration in the world of mathematics. Which is not what I felt as a student of mathematics as a young adult or child. So it was this beautiful moment of, for me, the power of when we see images and we allow opportunities for re-envisioning what may be a common practice for that student, or may be something that they see every day.

Allison Hintz (20:44):

And in that same way, that image that was put up, we wanna think really carefully about representation in the stories that we select. And when we think of stories as mirrors or windows, we really wanna be mindful in story selection of whose stories are told and whose stories are heard. And when you said that you would sit down to listen to a story and you felt at ease or that you saw an image and you saw yourself that can be and should be something we really think carefully about when we select the stories that we select.

Dan Meyer (21:21):

It’s a wider path for representation of different kinds of people in literature, because people’s stories seem so much more present and towards the surface of their lives, versus, say, the abstractions and numbers and shapes in mathematics. It feels like more of a struggle to find ways to show people, hey, like you’re here, this, this place belongs to you. So in all these reasons, I think it’s really great you folks are using literature, which has this history of humanities, literally humanities, as a vehicle for mathematics. That seems pretty special here.

Antony Smith (21:56):

We both go to libraries and bookstores and look through books as often as we can, but also our partner, a children’s librarian, Mie-Mie Wu, helped us go through—when we would meet, she would bring three or four hundred books at a time.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:13):

When you described her wheeling in the cart, oh, I wish I been in that room! <Laugh>

Antony Smith (22:18):

And the cart was, you know, probably three or four times bigger than she was sometimes. And we would go through hundreds of books and look at them and listen to her thoughts as a skilled librarian sharing with families, diverse families, and what catches the attention of a three-year-old sitting with her grandfather. And that was really a valuable, helpful experience. And it’s a partnership that continues. So in Last Stop on Market Street—and this is in the book; we talk about this, this children’s book quite a bit—in this story, CJ with his Nana, his grandmother, are riding the bus to the last stop on Market Street in San Francisco, to go, as we will find out, to help serve in a soup kitchen to help the community. And the teacher, Susan Hadreas, had the children record their ideas. She charted them in an open Notice and Wonder read. And one of the ideas that a young boy noticed was that CJ on the bus…a man with a guitar starts playing the guitar on the bus and CJ closes his eyes and it says CJ’s chest grew full. And he was lost in the sound and the sound gave him the feeling of magic. So this boy said, “I wonder, what does that feel like if you’re feeling the magic? What’s that?” And that was one of many ideas in the open Notice and Wonder, and Allison will talk about the math lens read, but first Susan went back and read with them. She had that idea, she circled it on the chart paper, and another day that week, she said, let’s go back and visit this story we really liked. And remember, we wondered what feeling the magic was like. Let’s go back through and let’s keep track of all the feelings and emotions that CJ had across the journey to the soup kitchen in this book. And so they did another read of the story; they were very familiar with it, of course, but they noticed new things and they also, every few pages, stopped and she helped chart all of the emotions that CJ experienced from envy to excitement to sadness. There’s a huge range in this book. And it was fascinating.

Allison Hintz (24:36):

I think one of the things that the children noticed was that CJ’s feelings were shaped by community. And that he shaped and shaped…he was shaped by and helped shape his community. And so the ways that he felt across the story were impacted by the other characters that he comes across. The guitar man on the bus. The bus driver who can pull a coin out from behind someone’s ear. The lady with the butterflies in the jar. Nana helping him to see the rainbow. And the students started, you know, being curious about that. How do we shape and how are we shaped by community? What communities are we a part of? This class is one community. I’m in many communities across my life. And they started to quantify the number of people in the story. So Mrs. Hedreas went back for a math lens read, and she said, let’s just keep track of and pay attention to how many people are in CJ’s life in this day. Because I can hear you starting to think about quantity. This class at the same time in other areas of the day had been working on counting collections, how to keep track, so they got out their tools. Some people pulled out ten frames, some people pulled out clipboards. They had a wide range of things they could use to help them keep track. They developed their own strategy, keep track however you want. She did a quicker read through it, flipping the pages, and then they get into these debates: <laugh> “We already counted that person!” “But they took their hat off and put it down to collect money!

Antony Smith (26:10):

“What about the dog?”

Allison Hintz (26:11):

“That’s the same person!” “Yeah, there’s a dog pound in his community!” <laugh> “Do animals count in our community?”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:17):

I love it!

Allison Hintz (26:17):

“Yes, they count!” Uh, and so we went through and quantified and there was really this understanding as you saw these people throughout the story that communities can be of different sizes, but community has impact. And you have responsibility in your community to show up and to lean in and to know that bringing your full, authentic, vulnerable self, you shape people and they shape you. And what communities are people a part of. And it turned into this really interesting discussion about quantity and helped us think more about quantity and community. I think a really important moment for us and for that class was the transition from being people who almost did mathematics to a story, like counted things on a page, um, count acorns on a page in an autumn book, to being mathematicians who thought within the story.

Antony Smith (27:17):

And then two idea investigations that came from that —not at the same time, of course, but with the same group of children—one was they identified an emotion of their own and wrote and drew about that. And also, who helped them address or get out of or acknowledge that emotion. And then the other idea investigation was that all of the children drew or kind of mapped out a community that they were part of. Whether it was their neighborhood or their classroom or their soccer team or whatever it was. And so then those investigations strengthened the connections of those concepts to the lives of those children.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:05):

Well, I, actually wanted to ask you about idea investigations. Because I feel like that was such an important invitation in your book. And the way I understood the idea investigation is you’re really paying attention to what’s coming up in your other reads. Right? And then these are opportunities to extend the thinking, or like you said, to extend a particular aspect: What’s your community? Can we map your community? Or what’s a particular emotion? And it was in such contrast to what I think I have probably done in my classroom more than once, which was like, “Oh, we read this story about seals. So now my story problem is gonna be about seals, right? <laugh> Like in the story, you know, Jojo, the seal had five balls. <laugh> So if Jojo still had five balls and two of them bounced away…” You know, or whatever. Right? But that’s not what an idea investigation is. Right?

Allison Hintz (29:03):

Yeah. I think this is where we also had some stumbles and can totally relate to what you’re saying as previous classroom teachers as well. We have come to a place where we are pretty in favor of a super open-ended idea investigation that takes up the things that have surfaced in the multiple reads and making sure it’s a rich task with many, many ways children can engage with that. There’s many, many, many right answers or ways to engage. Less is more there. So we moved way away from, like, even a worksheet that might have an idea from it to blank paper and math tools and places to get into some productive struggle around some of the complex things that were raised.

Antony Smith (29:59):

A challenge with worksheets is that they put a frame around children’s ideas. So either there are only three lines to write on, or there’s only a small box to draw in. Whereas a blank page really opens up the possibility. Um, and so—is it Ann Jonas who wrote Splash!? sorry, I don’t have it in front of me—the book Splash!, about animals that end up in and out of the pond, including a cat that is not happy about ending up in the pond, an idea investigation after that for very young children was, with the list of the different creatures displayed at the front of the room: On blank paper, hey, draw your own pond and decide how many of which and each type of animal you want in your pond and then write about it. Just on blank paper. And so that allowed some children to draw, like, three giant goldfish. But other children drew 17 frogs and three cats. And, and just, it lets children follow—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:02):

It was theirs, right? It was theirs.

Antony Smith (31:04):

Their idea. <laugh> And that comes partly from, I think, as Allison mentioned, we both were classroom teachers before moving into academia. And I remember giving children worksheets, particularly math worksheets, where they weren’t necessarily bad, but right at the bottom, it says like, explain your strategy. And it gives two lines.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:23):

Right! <laugh>

Antony Smith (31:25):

The only thing a seven-year-old can write there is “I thought.” Or “I solved it.” <laugh> And that’s not where we need to go.

Dan Meyer (31:34):

Yeah. If I could just ask the indulgence of the primary crowd here, like, I’m trying to make sense of all this. And I just wanna like, offer my perspective. My summary statement of what’s going on here. I’m trying to—I love how you both came here—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:45):

<laughs> How ya doin’, Dan? How ya doin’?

Dan Meyer (31:47):

<laughs> I’m, ah, A, I’m loving this a lot. Um, B, I came in here loving how you folks are broadening the work of primary education to kind of find commonalities between these sometimes seemingly disparate kinds of teaching in ELA and math. Love that, I wanna say. But I think you folks are describing, with all these teachers you observed and your own work, is the work of attaching meaning to what students might not realize yet has meaning. Or they might think it only has one kind of meaning. But you, the teacher, with their knowledge, realizes that there are many more dimensions of meaning that can be attached to those thoughts. And I’m hearing that from you folks, when you describe A, what math is and the power of a teacher to name a thing as mathematical. Like, “Oh, you didn’t think math was that, but math is noticing; math is wondering; math is asking questions,” for one. But also this work you’re describing of how, like, first the task has to invite lots of student thoughts and then to say like, “Oh, I see that there’s a similarity to these two.” And to raise those up for a conversation or to ask a question like to extend one person’s, one student’s question a little bit more. But it’s always…I’m just hearing you folks attaching more meaning than the student might have originally thought. I appreciate the conversation. That’s really interesting.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (33:03):

Well, and now that the book is out, I think it’s gonna keep evolving, right? Now that it’s gonna be in the hands of teachers and librarians and educators and caregivers, it’s exciting to see kind of where it goes next. Which actually brings us to our MTL challenge. Dan Meyer, do you wanna share?

Dan Meyer (33:22):

Math Teacher Lounge, we have a challenge for the folks who listen and we’d love for them to hop into the Facebook group Math Teacher Lounge, or hit us up on Twitter at @MTLShow and just, like, kind of exercise beyond listening, exercise the ideas you folks are talking about, some kind of a challenge that can help us dive deeper into your ideas. So what would you folks suggest for our crowd, for our listeners?

Allison Hintz (33:42):

I would love to invite people to playfully experiment with a favorite story, with a story that’s new to you. I would love to invite listeners to sit with a story maybe on your own, and just ask yourself as a mathematician: What do you notice and wonder in this story? Don’t feel any pressure. Maybe sit with a child or some children and listen to what they notice and wonder. Like, really listen! Don’t ask questions! But hear their questions and place children at the center and consider multiple reads. Consider continuing to pursue their questions. And we have a planning template that might support people in kind of sketching out some ideas if you’re open to playing with that too.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:34):

And we will post—

Dan Meyer (34:36):

That’s awesome.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:36):

—a link for that planning template in our Facebook group and on Twitter as well. So thank you so much for that resource, because I think it’ll definitely help. It could help you, like you said, it could help you kind of organize your thoughts or help you think about this work in a new way. So thank you for that resource and thank you for the amazing resource that is Mathematizing Children’s Literature. I am so excited to continue to engage with you both and with listeners as they dive into this book. If folks want to engage with you more, where can they find you? How can they reach you?

Allison Hintz (35:12):

Well, we’re on Twitter.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:14):

Great.

Dan Meyer (35:15):

What’s your home address? <laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:24):

Wait, let me try that again. <laugh> ‘Cause it does sound like I’m like, <fake ominous voice> “Where can they find you?”

Allison Hintz (35:29):

4-2-5…. <laughs>

Antony Smith (35:32):

At the bookstore!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:34):

Y’all, if folks want to continue this conversation or share these ideas or the math challenge, how can they tag you? How can they, they reach you on the World Wide Web, besides the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group?

Antony Smith (35:50):

Yeah. Well, we are both on Twitter, and we’ve been trying to promote the hashtag #MathematizingChildrensLiterature. It’s very long, but once you type it once, your phone or computer…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:01):

Easy. Yeah, those click, right? Is that what it is now?

Antony Smith (36:03):

<laugh> The other is that we do for our project, we have an Instagram account that is @MathematizeChildren’sLiterature.

Allison Hintz (36:11):

We care really deeply about hearing from people. You know, we think our ideas are constantly evolving and that there’s such exciting room to grow. And we just felt compelled to share what we were learning now so that together we could learn and build vibrant experiences for young children and teachers and families through stories. So we want to hear from people! We wanna learn about stories that are important in your lives and what children say, and grow these ideas together.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:42):

And credit to Dan, you told me you went and ordered a bunch of the books they have on the suggested read list.

Dan Meyer (36:48):

Oh my gosh.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:49):

You read ’em to your son.

Dan Meyer (36:50):

I got such a side-eye from my significant others around here for what I dropped on Amazon in one night! <laugh> Uh, all these books I didn’t have. Some of them I did. We are not fully illiterate around here! We do love the written word at the Meyer household! But there were a bunch that that I grabbed. I’m morseling them out day by day.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:09):

Wait, at bedtime I read my one-year-old One Is a Snail, Ten Is a Crab. <laugh> And let me tell you, he had vigorous pointing and “Da? Da da da da?”

Allison Hintz (37:22):

<laugh> Aww, da da!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:22):

So hey, we’re on the road. <laugh> <music> Deeply grateful, not only for your work and your beautiful book and your work, but also for the invitation to dive into the world of children’s literature in a way that many of us have not before. And it’s fun! Thank you, Tony. And thank you, Allison. And thanks for hanging out in the lounge.

Allison Hintz (37:48):

Thanks for having the lounge!

Antony Smith (37:49):

It’s been fun!

Allison Hintz (37:52):

Thank you both.

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What Allison Hintz says about math

“We started asking ourselves, “what would happen if we considered any story a chance to engage as mathematical sensemakers”.”

– Allison Hintz

Author and Associate Professor, University of Washington Bothell

Meet the guest

Allison B. Hintz: Dr. Hintz’s research and teaching are in the area of mathematics education. Her focus on mathematics came about during her years as a fifth grade teacher – it was alongside her students that she developed her own positive identity as a mathematician! Today she studies teaching and learning, specifically facilitating engaging discussion. Her research and teaching happen in partnership with educators and children in formal and informal settings and focuses on beliefs and practices that support all children in lively mathematics learning. She is a co-author, with Elham Kazemi, of Intentional Talk: How to Structure and Lead Productive Mathematical Discussions.

Twitter: @allisonhintz124

Antony T. Smith: Antony T. Smith is an associate professor of literacy education at the University of Washington, Bothell. He works alongside teachers to create engaging literacy-mathematics learning experiences through exploring and discussing children’s literature. He is committed to the concepts of motivation, engagement, challenge, and creativity in literacy teaching and learning.

 Twitter: @smithant  Instagram: mathematizechildrensliterature

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S5-02. Uncovering the causes of math anxiety

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We’re continuing our season theme of math anxiety, going beyond the basics, diving deeper into what causes it, and how we can help students move forward. In this episode, we talk to Dr. Erin Maloney from the University of Ottawa to better understand what’s actually happening in the brain when a person experiences math anxiety, and how we can take steps to shift student mindsets in a positive direction.
 
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Download Transcript

Dr. Erin Maloney (00:00):

It’s the anxiety itself in many ways that can cause people to underperform.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:06):

Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:10):

And I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:11):

This is episode two of our new season, all about math anxiety. Who has it? What is it? What do we do about it?

Dan Meyer (00:20):

I’m learning so much, learning a ton.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:22):

I loved our first conversation with Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, episode one, our first episode of the season. Really, our goal with that conversation was just to—we need to talk about the basics of it, for reals. Like, what is math anxiety?

Dan Meyer (00:36):

What is it? How do you measure it? How’s it defined? Super-helpful stuff.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:40):

There’s not only one way that it’s measured. But it’s like, in active research right now, how are folks making sense of it? And I think Dr. Ramirez did such a fantastic job of sharing that with our listeners. And I learned a lot. You learned a lot, Dan?

Dan Meyer (00:56):

I did. And I’m also super-excited to take that knowledge that we have developed together and go and build on top of it and keep on climbing up up the mountain here, and learn more about math anxiety. Which is why we’re super-excited to have a guest on, Dr. Maloney, who is going to help us learn more—especially about what happens to the brain when it’s experiencing math anxiety. There’s some really complex stuff that happens there, including the role of parents and educators in creating and resolving math anxiety. And I think we’ll also learn that the whole situation is a bit of a hot mess. And we’ll try to make it a little bit less messy together.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:34):

Little bit less messy. Dan, if we do nothing else, can we make it a little less messy?

Dan Meyer (01:41):

I sometimes prefer more mess, but in this case I prefer less. So.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:45):

I have a two-year-old, so everything is a mess.

Dan Meyer (01:47):

Your life is mess. Yes. <laugh> Right. Well, I’m excited for you folks to hear this. It was a delightful conversation, so yeah, tune in. We are joined by Dr. Erin Maloney.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:56):

Let’s go. We are joined by Dr. Erin Maloney, associate professor in the School of Psychology at the University of Ottawa, where she directs the Cognition and Emotion Laboratory, as well as serving as the Canada Research Chair in Academic Achievement and Well-being. Welcome to the show, Dr. Maloney. We’re so excited to have you in the Lounge.

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:20):

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:24):

So our last season was all about math and joy. And even when I read your title, I felt more joyful. Like, somebody is thinking about academic achievement, but with well-being in mind. I love it.

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:39):

Aw, thank you.

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Cognition and emotion!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:42):

E-mo-tion!

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:43):

I don’t think they can be separate. I think that you have to think about them together, ’cause they’re so intricately connected.

Dan Meyer (02:49):

Love that. People try, but we love that. Yeah. That’s our vibe here, too.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:52):

People try. That was a big problem with my math anxiety. They just wanted…there was no room for my emotion. They’re like, stop weeping at your desk—

Dan Meyer (03:00):

It’s rearranging neurons….

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:01):

—you’re distracting the other children. So would you mind telling us the story of how you even got interested in this topic? You know, when you tell people that you study math anxiety—or, actually, I don’t know how you describe it to them; I’m hopeful you bring in that well-being part—but how did you get here? What do you, what do you, what do you…yeah, tell us! We love it!

Dr. Erin Maloney (03:23):

<laugh> I feel like what you’re actually asking is, “How did you make life choices that got you to here?” <Laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:29):

Justify your life choices! Ready? Go!

Dr. Erin Maloney (03:32):

<laugh> Whoo. OK. So, all right. So we often, in psychology, we joke that instead of doing research, we do “me-search.” And that’s, that’s admittedly true in my case. I was a student who absolutely loved math up until about eighth grade, and then something changed, and all of a sudden I was terrified of math and I had absolutely no sense of self-efficacy in it. Despite trying really hard, I was extremely anxious about it. And so I initially, I set out…my parents were completely convinced that I was absolutely capable of doing mathematics and that I was getting in my own way. And when I went to university, I decided to prove them wrong. So I set out to prove that some people just can’t do math, and that’s the end of it. And, you know, 20 plus years later, my parents were right. And it turns out that many people—well, I would argue virtually everyone—can do math. And that if you are really anxious about it, it can get in the way. And interestingly, you know, in, in the years that we’ve been doing this research, there’s really good strategies that can be used—that hopefully we get a chance to chat about—that can really help reduce the amount of anxiety that students are experiencing. But I really did set out, like the bold teenager that I was, to prove my parents wrong. And that backfired <laugh>. So I know it’s kind of a strange answer, but it’s the truth. So I was really interested in understanding why it was some people just could not do math.

Dan Meyer (05:10):

That makes two for two so far, on guests for this season who did a version of me-search. And I feel like this is pretty common for a lot of researchers. Like, I wanna figure out…my experience as a teacher, the part where you, I think, diverge from a lot of people I knew in grad school, myself included, is that you actually let counter evidence change your perspective on things. Whereas I feel like a lot of us go in: “I know this is true and I’m gonna gather data!” and lo and behold, I’m true! But only now, with the research TM, you know, trademarked research, attached to it. So that’s, really exciting. Thanks for sharing that.

Dr. Erin Maloney (05:43):

No, you’re welcome.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:44):

But don’t people say that the more personal you get, the more universal it is? Right? So if you go and get your doctorate about something that you think is just your experience or in your brain, then people are gonna be gonna be like, “Wait a second; you think that too?” “Wait, that math anxiety isn’t just you?” I don’t know, it sounds like a pretty great path to me. When you tell folks that you study math anxiety or when you’re speaking to folks about your research, do you find that there is a lot of folks who relate to what you’re studying? Or how does that conversation typically go?

Dr. Erin Maloney (06:20):

Yeah, so it is I think an extremely relatable topic. Not in the sense that everyone experiences anxiety about math, but everyone seems to know somebody who’s really anxious about math. Or everyone’s at least aware of the stereotype that like some people are math people and some people aren’t, and that’s just the way it is. So it feels like everyone has feelings about math and everyone seems very happy to share those feelings. So one thing I’ve always found really interesting, and actually, so I, I know you mentioned that you had Gerardo on recently. Gerardo and I have had really interesting conversations about how people are really quick to tell you that they hate math and they can’t do math, and they’re anxious about math. And I’ve yet to have anyone ever tell me they hate reading, they can’t read, they’re really anxious about reading as an adult. So for some reason math seems really different. And in that sense people always seem to be pretty excited to talk about their feelings towards math.

Dan Meyer (07:23):

Yeah, definitely. Been on an airplane or two myself and had those conversations. You know, people asking to be reseated because they found out that I do math for a living or whatever. Or just unburdening themselves, for sure. I’m super-curious: I think that the fact that you are doing the me-search is reason enough to want to dedicate your life to this study. But I am curious: If you were gonna justify to someone else, why is math anxiety important to study? What are its consequences, even outside of math education? What would you say to that?

Dr. Erin Maloney (07:57):

So I think it’s probably not hard to convince people that success in math is important, right? So we know that children who start elementary school behind in mathematics tend to stay behind in mathematics, unless they have any kind of very targeted intervention. We know that children who do worse in mathematics throughout K to 12 education in general get lower-paying jobs when they’re older. We also know that when they do worse than mathematics relative to their peers, there’s fewer jobs that are open to them, relative to if they excelled in math. Right? And so I think in many ways there are really clear consequences for students who are not comfortable with math and who avoid it. But I think one of the really, really interesting things about math anxiety, and maybe part of why I’ve fallen in love with it as a research topic is that it’s the anxiety itself in many ways that can cause people to underperform. So it’s not just the case that people who are bad at math are anxious about it. It’s actually that the anxiety itself can cause you to do worse in math. And that for me is really exciting, ’cause it means that if we can change your mindset, then we can really set you on a path with several more options available to you career-wise. And I think that is really empowering.

Dan Meyer (09:18):

Hmm. Yeah, definitely. And I’d love for you to explore — your laboratory is the cognition and emotion laboratory, which I love, how you’re creating those linkages between how you feel about a thing and what your opportunities or your aptitude for learning it. I’m really curious, can you say more about the, the relationship there? How does feeling anxiety impair your ability to do mathematics?

Dr. Erin Maloney (09:41):

Yeah, so feeling anxiety, typically what you tend to experience is these negative thoughts and ruminations. So you can imagine, you’re somebody who doesn’t really love math, you’re pretty anxious about it; you know, Bethany, maybe you’ve had this kind of experience before. I’m gonna call you out on it. I’ve had it many times, where you sit down to do a math test and all of a sudden you’re not focusing on the actual math test in front of you. You’re focusing on things like the consequences of not doing well on this. Right? Or “my parents are gonna be really disappointed if I don’t pass this test,” or “my teacher is gonna think negatively negative of me,” or sometimes we see things like, “I’m a girl, girls don’t do math.” These types of stereotypes. And what happens is that those thoughts actually tie up really important cognitive resources, like, really important memory resources, that you need to do the math test. And so if you are trying to essentially do two things at once, right? You’re trying to deal with all these negative thoughts that are distracting you and you’re trying to do the math test, then you’re not going to do as well as someone who’s sitting down and doesn’t have all of these distracting thoughts to deal with. And we actually know that from research that we have in our lab right now, where we just ask people like, “Hey, when you did this math test, what kind of stuff are you thinking about?” what we find is that the people who are really anxious about math report a whole bunch of thoughts that are unrelated really to the math test, per se. It’s more about the consequences of doing poorly. And as a result of those thoughts, they actually end up doing worse.

Dan Meyer (11:14):

This has been really helpful to figure out, how the emotional state of doing math affects the ability to do math. And it’s really interesting how you’re saying that the direction of the causality can go from the emotions to the cognition. And I’m just curious then, what is the source of the bad emotions about math? Where does that come from? Is it nature? Is it nurture? Some combination? How do you see it?

Dr. Erin Maloney (11:39):

Yeah, so one, that’s a fantastic question. And there’s been a whole bunch of people all around the world that have been spending a lot of time really trying to pinpoint that down. And I think the answer is that it’s, you know, it’s complex. So most of what it’s looking like right now is that it is a combination of both. So essentially what we find is that kids who start elementary school who are a little bit behind in math—and for the question of why they’re behind, that’s also complex; it could be genetics, it could be just environmental input, before the child ever entered formal schooling kind of thing—but in essence, what we find is that kids that start school behind in mathematics, those are the children who are most likely to develop anxiety about math by the time they’re finished first grade. OK? But we also know that once they’ve developed the anxiety about math, then that’s when they get these thoughts and ruminations that kind of tie up those memory resources, that then is gonna make it harder for them to succeed in math tests. So you get into this sort of vicious cycle, right? Where maybe you start behind a little bit and then you develop the anxiety, the anxiety causes you to underperform relative to what you should be able to, so now you’re even further behind, you get more anxious because you’re not doing as well as you’d like to…but again, kind of coming back to the “Why are the children starting behind in the first place?” Some of that seems to be the role that parents are playing in the household. So some kids come from a household where parents are playing a lot more math games with them, talking about mathematical concepts on a regular basis. Maybe they have older siblings who are, you know, practicing arithmetic and, and mathematical processing in front of them. And so those kids are exposed to more math before they ever even start formal schooling. Those kids seem to do better. And then we also know that the parents’ attitudes matter a lot too. So what we find is that when parents are high in math anxiety themselves, especially when they help their children a lot with their math homework in really early ages, we find that those kids end up being more anxious about math by the end of the school year, and they also end up doing worse in mathematics. So it really does seem to be, you know, kind of a complex set of factors that have something to do with both maybe genetic predisposition to success in math and genetic predisposition to anxiety, but then also the social attitudes and stereotypes about math to which you’re exposed at home that really seem to be coming together to create this anxiety in young children.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:24):

I feel like everything you’re saying is <laugh>…it makes so much sense and yet it’s so often not talked about, right? Because it’s just more like, it gets boiled down to, “Oh, they’re just not a math person,” instead of all these other factors that are at play. And I completely remember the anxiety I felt, whether it was a test or not, walking into my math classroom when I was in ninth grade. And there’s no way I was set up and ready to learn. Right? <Laugh>. And something with—we mentioned Dr. Ramirez, he was talking about validating that anxiety. If teachers validate that like, “Oh, you know what, sometimes you might feel stumped, or this might feel overwhelming.” Even the power in creating space for that in the classroom, right? And acknowledging that it doesn’t—math doesn’t have to “come easy” to you in order for you to have access or make sense, is such a powerful concept. And I love the way that you are looking at all these different factors and saying, “Hey, it’s both simple and also a lot more complicated than we’re we’re making it.” Right?

Dr. Erin Maloney (15:36):

No, and I agree with that sentiment so much. Like, I think, though—one thing I will sort of caution is that I think when teachers are validating the anxiety, or when parents are validating the anxiety, I think there’s a very fine line that needs to be walked where we need to be able to say, you know, “It’s OK to struggle with something. That’s, that is completely OK.” And as we’re, you know, as we’re working towards something that’s really valuable, right? We can, we can work hard at something and by working hard at it, we’re going to get better. And I think that type of validating is really, really important and valuable. I think what we wanna be careful of is not to say things like, “Oh, it’s OK. I also never loved math.” And, you know, “Oh, I was never a math person either.” And so even though we might be bringing comfort to the the child, I think that that’s sending the wrong message. And so sometimes it’s really well intentioned and really not great—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:37):

A hundred percent.

Dr. Erin Maloney (16:38):

—in terms of the messaging. So that’s the only…so just for people listening, the only sort of caution that I would give there is that I think there’s nuances to the validating of the feelings that are important.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:50):

I am so glad you said that because as a kindergarten teacher, I vividly remember—and this is as early as, you know, the kids are five years old, right?—and I remember in a parent-teacher conference, a parent saying, “Oh, I wasn’t a math person either,” or, “Oh, no, ugh.” And they were so quick, like you said, they wouldn’t say that about reading, but they were so quick to talk about their lack of natural math aptitude, right? And, and it was really interesting because you know that even if they’re not saying that specific thing at home, those attitudes are absolutely carrying over at home. And they’re absolutely carrying over to, to how they interact with their kiddo around math and around what’s happening in the conversations about math. And I felt like a lot of times my work as a teacher was also to help support parents through their own math anxiety, and help give them some new language for how they can talk about math. And that math is more than just getting to an answer quickly. Like, let’s talk about, let’s go on math walks, let’s go on number walks, what numbers are around the home? Or oh, is that bigger than this? Do you have more of this? And even those little things, I, my hope was that it was starting to shift the conversation around what math was possible in the home, particularly when you saw that it was the parents who had palpable math anxiety. Right? And how much you know that that’s gonna impact what’s happening when you sit down to do homework together.

Dr. Erin Maloney (18:22):

Yeah. And I love that you have worked to encourage parents to do that. So we do similarly. Like even from a research perspective, where I will often give talks to parents and teachers and we talk about the idea of trying to mathematize everything, right? So just the idea that math is absolutely everywhere, and you know, whether it’s a matter of playing games in the car with your kids where you’re thinking of a number and it’s “My number is higher than 42, but lower than 80, and what number do you think I might be thinking of?” And, and gradually trying to get the child to that number. Or, you know, asking questions like, “What’s your favorite even number and why?” And just little things like that that, that I think can make math fun for kids, that help—I don’t even know how to explain it, but just that idea of bringing joy into it, so it’s not always this heavy subject that kids have to come to. So we definitely try to talk to parents about the idea of, like I said, mathematizing everything. And usually it’s well-received, ’cause often parents find it empowering, right? They’re like, “Oh, well, I could do that! But like, that’s not math!” And you’re like, “No, but it is.”

Dan Meyer (19:33):

Yep.

Dr. Erin Maloney (19:34):

Like, it is! And sometimes parents will say like, “Well, I don’t know how to do fractions.” And you’re like, “OK, but how do you bake?” “Well, I don’t know! I just, like, I know how to do those fractions!” And you’re like, “OK, but that’s the starting point. Let’s work with that.” Like, let’s, you know. And I think a lot of times, it’s reminding the parents that they’re actually far more capable than what they think they are, despite the fact that maybe they struggled with math when they were younger.

Dan Meyer (19:58):

Yeah. This is so interesting. And I feel like part of the challenge around conversations about anxiety and math and how to, how to resolve it and where it comes from, is that it, like, it presupposes a single definition of math. And so, you know, we’re talking about like how to be more mindful about math. But you know, like if kids were walking every day through a treacherous street, you know, the solution might not be become more mindful about that street. It’s just like, we gotta fix the treacherous nature of the street, really. You know, I love that we’re talking also about redefining what math is, making it more playful. That feels like a super-important component here. I’d love to know more about what you know about the role of gender in all of this. Are there differences in the way boys and girls experience math anxiety and how it relates to achievement in math?

Dr. Erin Maloney (20:48):

Yeah, so, there’s really, really interesting research on gender in math anxiety. So in general, we find that girls tend to experience more anxiety about math than boys do. So one hypothesis is that it has to do with just social stereotypes that, you know, girls are, are good at reading; boys are good at math, kind of thing. So there’s some evidence to suggest that that might be playing a role. There’s other evidence to suggest as well that maybe boys actually do experience as much anxiety, they just don’t really own up to it.

Dan Meyer (21:20):

Ooh, yikes.

Dr. Erin Maloney (21:21):

So thoughts are, you know, there’s a bit of an apprehension for males to admit experiencing the anxiety. But I think one of the things that is extremely interesting about it—at least to me—is that we don’t tend to see gender differences in young children. So in early elementary school, even though we’ll see that kids as young as six years old will experience anxiety about math, and that that anxiety is related to how well they do in math and how much they enjoy math, it doesn’t seem to vary as a function of gender at that young age. It doesn’t seem to be related to gender until kids are at about sixth, seventh grade that we really start to see this gender difference coming online. And so that, to me, suggests that it’s probably something more social than biological at play. It probably has something more to do with these stereotypes and stuff. But another really interesting—or at least, I’m biased, but to me—another really interesting line of research that comes into play—and some of this is stuff out of my own lab—so we know that boys in general tend to do better at spatial processing than girls. And we know that spatial processing is really important for math, right? So math and space are pretty connected. And by spatial processing, I mean things like being able to picture something rotating in your mind or, you know, envisioning how these puzzle pieces might fit together. And so we know that boys tend to do better at that type of processing. And the gender difference there seems to be related to gender differences in math anxiety. So there’s some speculation, too, that it might be that as the math starts to become more reliant on spatial processing, that that’s when we see this separation between boys and girls with respect to how much anxiety they feel about math. So a lot of this is to say, I think the answer to the gender question right now is what I think what we would officially call a bit of a hot mess, <laugh> where I think there’s probably more questions than answers. But I think that there’s definitely something going on. And it really seems to be coming on later in elementary school.

Dan Meyer (23:32):

That’s a refreshingly honest admission from a social scientist, that it’s a hot mess and not perfectly clear, <laugh> so I appreciate that. It’s interesting what you said about the spatial reasoning. In our work creating curriculum at Amplify, I find we lean a lot on trying to tie abstract math towards spatial topics. Like, can you estimate a quantity before you calculate it? Can you identify a pattern and where it breaks before you prove it abstractly? And, I dunno, it’s just interesting to me. I’m just thinking out loud about how I feel like math becomes more abstract rather than more spatial. The farther you venture into secondary math…I’m wondering if I misunderstand what you’re meaning by spatial, and the progression of math from K–12.

Dr. Erin Maloney (24:20):

Yeah, so I think you can still have—you can have math be abstract, but still really relying on spatial processing. Right? And I think part of that is maybe a bit of us having different definitions of when we say “spatial.” So in cognitive science, when we talk about spatial representations or spatial reasoning, it’s really like anything you’re picturing in your mind, any time you’re really picturing these things in your mind and manipulating those images at all. So if you imagine, even like at a simple level, but it’s gonna hold when you’re going more complex as well. So doing like equivalence problems, for example, where you have to balance the equations.

Dan Meyer (24:58):

Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (24:59):

Even just being able to envision things kind of moving around that equal sign and bringing one piece of the equation from this side to the other is actually an extremely spatial kind of reasoning. Right? Or when you’re expanding, that’s actually extremely extremely spatial, despite the fact that it might not feel like it initially. Obviously anything in geometry is going to be very spatial. So I think, in that sense, we would argue that the spatial processing is still playing a pretty important role. But it’s maybe a different type of spatial processing than what we’re seeing at a very early level in elementary school. That said, you can completely disagree with me too. ‘Cause I could also just be wrong, and that’s fair. My kids tell me I’m wrong all the time. So I’m used to <laugh> being told that I’m wrong.

Dan Meyer (25:47):

Well, we’re a bit more deferential on this here show, with our guests. So I would not do that. But it makes sense, what you’re saying about how these are things that you manipulate in your mind, whether they are Xs and Ys or numbers and fractions. These are all things that we manipulate. That ties into differences in this spacial reasoning category, it sounds like, which then contributes to math anxiety. And it does start to feel like there’s a lot going on here, is what it feels like.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:14):

You mean hot mess?

Dan Meyer (26:16):

I meant hot mess.

Dr. Erin Maloney (26:17):

Yeah. <laugh>, I think that’s the technical term, right? I’m pretty sure that’s the technical term for it.

Dan Meyer (26:21):

I didn’t know the citation for it. So I didn’t say it. But I knew who in literature named that. But yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (26:28):

I’ll write something at some point.

Dan Meyer (26:30):

We’ll cite Maloney, 2022. Yeah. Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:34):

So I will say that one of my dreams in thinking about this season and last season, but particularly this season, since we’re really getting to talk to some researchers who get to think about this, and have really interesting conversations about it all the time…one of my dreams is that we’re bringing—’cause we do have some folks who are researchers that are listening, right? But then we also have teachers and folks who are in the classroom every day, and parents and caregivers listening. And so I think one of the beautiful things about the way that I hear you talking about it is you’re thinking about the research, but it’s so applicable. Right? And I wonder if there’s anything else you can say around it. I wanna reduce that divide, that gap, between the research that’s happening and then what’s happening with the kiddos and in the classroom and at home. And I don’t know if it’s like a magic wand thing where like <laugh> if there were changes you’d wanna see at a societal level, to try to combat math anxiety, but you see where I’m going. You know, it’s like <laugh>….

Dr. Erin Maloney (27:39):

  1. So I’m gonna answer maybe in two ways. So I think the first thing that I’m hearing from you is that idea of diminishing this divide, right? And so one thing I try to keep in mind, as someone who’s a researcher and working in the lab, I will often be called in to talk to teachers and give professional development sessions. And they often want the sage-on-the-stage academic, that stands up there and tells you the answers to things. And one of the first things that I’m gonna admit when I get up there is, “I am not on the front lines.” So what I do in the lab, for me to tell you that that’s gonna work in a classroom of 30 kids who may or may not have eaten dinner that day, and may or may not have snow pants, and may or not…like it’s–

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:23):

Mmm, yes.

Dr. Erin Maloney (28:24):

You know, I think we also need to be a little bit reasonable. So I try really hard in my own program of research to make sure that I’m always talking to teachers and to principals and to curriculum designers to make sure that the ideas that I have make sense. In fact, one of the most recent book chapters that I wrote, I wrote in collaboration with a really good friend of mine who’s a principal, an elementary school principal, and a former math consultant. And we wrote it together, to really say like, “Hey, here’s how we can help each other inform how research can inform practice and how practice can also inform research.” ‘Cause he can come to me and say, “I’m doing this. I can’t find anything in the literature to support this, but I’m sure it works!” And we can design something in the lab to test whether or not it seems like it’s gonna work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:11):

That’s huge. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (29:12):

Empirically. And so I think that open communication is massive. One thing that we’re doing in my own lab to try to keep that open communication available. So to anyone listening who’s ever tried to get access to a journal article, they’re held behind paywalls, right? So one, the way it works, my understanding of this anyway, is that the journal owns the formatted version of the paper. So what we do is we put up audio recordings of all of the research papers that we ever publish. So I’m pretty sure I own the words as the author, and the journal owns the prettified version that you can buy. So we audio-record all of our papers, so that if teachers or parents ever want to hear the actual science that’s going into some of these decisions, they have access to at least the stuff that we do in our lab. And we also put up an infographic for every paper, just highlighting kind of the main questions and main findings. And we do that because I think that the only way for the information to actually be useful is if it gets into the hands of the stakeholders that actually need that information.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:21):

And is accessible. That’s huge. That’s huge!

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:24):

Yeah. Yeah. So that’s one way that we try to do it. And like I said, the other thing, we try to always be working with principals and with teachers. I joke that the way that I remedied this in my own life…so my husband’s a teacher; it’s like, I just married one! It’s fine! <laugh> I can grill him on a regular basis, and be like, “I wanna try this experiment. Do you think it’s gonna work?” And he can say, like, “It’s not going to. Here’s why.”

Dan Meyer (30:47):

That’s awesome. Marrying a participant—you know, a research participant—is unethical, of course. Would not clear IRB. But turning your partner into a participant? Like, what are you gonna do? That’s great.

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:57):

Yeah, no, that’s fair game.

Dan Meyer (30:58):

Yep.

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:59):

Yeah. So that’s—I think we we compensate each other <laugh>. So, no…so I do joke a little bit about that. He was a teacher simply ’cause he wanted to be one. Not ’cause I needed him to be one. But, I think that communication part is, is really key. That’s one thing. Then the other part of the question or the other sort of piece of the question that I was hearing is that idea of, how do we fix math anxiety. Right? Like, what’s the great, “I’m glad that there’s a whole bunch of time and effort and energy going into trying to understand this, but what, where are we at?” And I think with that, it’s really, really promising. So there’s been a lot of research coming out looking at how best to help children or even adults manage their own anxiety about math. And there’s a few really interesting strategies that seem to be quite effective. So one, and I don’t know if—um, it feels weird calling him Dr. Ramirez, just ’cause I know him well!—but I don’t know if Dr. Ramirez would’ve talked about this when he chatted with you, but he has some really interesting work on expressive writing. Did he chat about that at all?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:07):

He didn’t, but I’ve read some of his work about it and I think it’s so fascinating.

Dr. Erin Maloney (32:11):

Yeah! So, OK, well, I’ll tell you about his work on it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:13):

Yes, please. Please.

Dr. Erin Maloney (32:14):

Because it’s super-useful. So when we talked about that idea of how anxiety causes these thoughts and ruminations, and they tie up the memory resources that you need, what Gerardo has found is that when you get students to write about their anxiety for about 10 minutes before they do a test, what ends up happening is they end up doing better on the test, relative to if they would not have written about their anxiety at all. And this is particularly true for students who are really high in anxiety. OK? And the idea is that all of those thoughts that they were going to have about the test or the consequences of the test, et cetera, you just kind of get ’em…it’s like a mind dump where you get ’em all onto the page at first before you even go to do the test. And now when you go to do the test, you’re not having to do two things at once. You’re no longer dealing with these thoughts ’cause you got ’em all out on the paper beforehand. And so Gerardo has some really interesting work showing that that works for math anxiety. And then it also works for just testing anxiety in general. And so that’s a strategy that I love. I also—part of what I really love about it is it’s so low-cost, right? You need a paper and a pencil and it’s great. So those are always my favorite strategies, the ones that don’t really cost us anything. So that’s one way of dealing with like the cognitive part of the anxiety. The other thing you can do is try to deal with the anxiety part of the anxiety. So for that, what we find is that the typical strategies that you’re gonna see for anxiety tend to work for math anxiety. So things like focused breathing. Right? Making sure you’re doing deep inhales and exhales. That really diaphragmatic breathing seems to be quite helpful. We know that what we call progressive desensitization is really key. That’s the idea of doing things, you know, starting with the questions that you know how to handle. And then gradually working up to the more difficult questions. So you’re sort of gradually exposing yourself to the more complex stuff. And how that can play out on an actual test at school is, you sit down, and instead of just starting with question number one, you actually read the whole test, see which questions you feel like you know the best, start with those questions, and that helps build your confidence so that you’re better able to tackle the questions that are maybe a little bit outside of where you’re currently at. So that seems to be really helpful. The other part that I will say, too, that’s extremely helpful: So we know that anxiety really ties up those memory resources. And so the more you can make the math automatic, the more immune it’s going to be to anxiety in the moment. And so I know that this part can be a little bit controversial, because we don’t wanna necessarily demotivate children, and kill the enthusiasm for math that we’re trying to cultivate…but really, you know, really committing your arithmetic facts to memory can be extremely helpful. So really learning those times tables, really learning your addition and subtraction facts. ‘Cause what happens is, then when you’re in a situation where you need that information, even if you’re anxious and you’re working with fewer cognitive resources than what you would normally have, you actually don’t need that many cognitive resources to be able to pull something from memory that you’ve memorized. So it really helps to kind of protect you against some of the negative impacts of the anxiety while you’re doing that test.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:37):

And you’re not using all your cognitive resources to figure out seven times eight, because you can really focus on what you’re trying to do with that. Oh, that’s fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (35:47):

Yes. No, a hundred percent right. And so I know that’s one that, like I said, I know it can be somewhat controversial because it’s…you know, we’ve talked about—or we haven’t talked about in this conversation, but we often talk about—the idea of drilling and killing. Right? So you drill the facts, you kill the, the enthusiasm. But I think that there are ways that we can drill arithmetic facts, or help make them automatic, but still fun, right? It doesn’t have to always be in a high-pressure kind of way.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:16):

Totally. And we’ve talked about fluency, and I’m sure we’ll talk about it more in the Lounge. And that is interesting, that link between anxiety when the fluency isn’t there, that—or, of course we hear about anxiety with timed tests, but the idea of that IS something you can do to reduce it, because you have those facts just at your ready. Right?

Dr. Erin Maloney (36:37):

Yeah. So I actually, again, I’m gonna be a little bit controversial. So I don’t hate timed tests in the way that a lot of people do. But I love time to practice. So I think once we’ve got to a point where children have a fairly decent understanding of skills, of a skill, once they’ve got a fairly decent grasp on it, then I love the idea of the timed practice. So it can be still in a low-pressure situation, where in many ways it doesn’t matter if you get the answer to the question correct. But we’re practicing doing it in a situation in which you might be feeling a little bit of pressure, but it’s not real pressure, if that makes sense. And I think that can be really, really useful for students. And again, it can be done in a fun way, right? It doesn’t have to be these super-intense ways. It can be fun. But I think that in life there are situations in which the time that it takes you to complete a problem matter. And I think that we have to make sure that we don’t get too far away from that.

Dan Meyer (37:40):

Yeah. It feels like we should do an entire other episode thinking about ways to develop that fluency and automaticity that don’t contribute to anxiety, or create further disparities between people who are high math anxiety and low math anxiety. Not a small question, I’m sure. And I appreciate you alluding to all of that. You know, this whole thing, as you said, is quite the hot mess. And I feel like you, Dr. Maloney, have helped us make this a little less messy, in our heads, and hopefully the listeners’ heads. I really appreciate that. I just love…you’ve mentioned lots of resources that you have. You’ve alluded to them: audiobook-style readings of your research, which I need ’cause I just finished, you know, Harry Potter, the seventh book, so I need a new thing to listen to like that. Also infographics. Can you tell our listeners where they can find this work of yours, and if there are any other kinds of resources that you wanna plug for our listeners here?

Dr. Erin Maloney (38:32):

Yeah, for sure. So all of our resources can be found on my lab website. So the address for that is www.ErinMaloney.ca. So there we have, like you said, the infographics and the audio articles and all that stuff. And then we also have a link to a new kids’ book out, actually, that a colleague of mine and I have published recently, that really walks through some of these strategies on combating math anxiety. The book is written as a children’s book, so it’s Peyton & Charlie Challenge Math. But it secretly is a book that would also work for adults. So if you are a parent that’s a little bit anxious about math, or a teacher that maybe is a little bit anxious, and you wanna see how some of these strategies can play out, in that book—we linked to it on the website, but it is available for purchase on Amazon. And the one thing I will say about the book, ’cause this is something that we were pretty proud of, so Sheri-Lynn Skwarchuk, who is a school psychologist, and I wrote the book. And it’s available for purchase at our cost price, so we don’t actually make any money on the book. It was literally just a way of getting some of the science out to people who might be able to benefit from it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:45):

Reducing that divide!

Dr. Erin Maloney (39:46):

Yeah, well that’s what we’re trying to do! Right? So I think in the U.S., I think it’s like $6 on Amazon. And then in terms of other resources, we’re in the process right now of creating some informational videos and and stuff like that that hopefully will be useful for parents and for teachers, just in terms of understanding a little bit more about the anxiety and understanding how to deal with the anxiety in the classroom more, at home or wherever it might be coming up.

Dan Meyer (40:15):

Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate—we appreciate!—you coming on, and hearing about how you’re trying to bridge so many different barriers from research to practice, and school to home. It’s just really inspiring. And we’d love to have you back on sometime. So thank you so much for joining us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:29):

I feel like we’ve just hung out! Don’t you, Dan?

Dan Meyer (40:31):

Are we rolling here? Oh my gosh, we’re rolling. I just thought we’re just hanging. Yeah,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:34):

I thought we were just hanging!

Dr. Erin Maloney (40:36):

I know, I do, I really appreciate that it has a very kind of chill vibe to it.

Dan Meyer (40:41):

Chill vibe. Like a lounge.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:42):

It’s the lounge!

Dan Meyer (40:43):

Thank you. You get us; you get us. <laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:45):

Dan Meyer. I was shopping for children’s books, and there was this book, and it was talking about being at home with Mom. And it’s going through all the things that the child did that day with Mom. It’s like, “We played outside, we ran through the sprinklers, we even did some homework.” And it shows them sitting at the table with the homework, that’s clearly math homework, in front of them. And the mom is like, “Harrumph!” Like a very perplexed, anxious face. And there’s all these question marks above her. And it’s just like,

Dan Meyer (41:24):

“There should not be numbers on that paper!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:25):

Exactly. And the child is like, “Ohhhh,” you know. And I mean, I have to give credit to the illustrator, because they really did capture the clear message of this interaction, which was sitting down to do math homework or think about math together is a source of angst. Right? According to this author and according to too many people. And so I think what’s really important is that we recognize those images when we see them out there and speak back to them, and say, “Hey, wait a second.” Yeah, it can feel like that, and it doesn’t have to. And what’s going on that that’s just the assumed way that it’s gonna feel, to sit down and math together. You know?

Dan Meyer (42:11):

Yeah. It feels like we all have a lot of work to do on the whole math-anxiety front. Dr. Maloney helped us see how parents play a part, educators play a part, society and how they create people plays its own part in how we all define math as a thing where we evaluate student thought or where students play it with their thoughts, has its own huge part as well. So yeah, it was a really fantastic conversation with Dr. Maloney. I hope you folks will check out the show notes, where you will find links to Dr. Maloney’s website. A lot of her work, which as you heard, is very geared towards practitioners and parents and even directly at kids, especially the new children’s book she co-authored, Peyton & Charlie Challenge Math.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:55):

Next time we’re gonna dive even more into the nitty gritty of combating math anxiety. To do that, we’re actually gonna be joined—I am so excited about this—by Dr. Rosemarie Truglio from Sesame Workshop.

Rosemarie Truglio (43:09):

Our core audience are two- to four-year-olds, and they love math. And what’s not to love? Children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned.

Dan Meyer (43:23):

So excited.

Dr. Erin Maloney (43:24):

Sesame Street was a huge part of my childhood and my toddler doesn’t know it yet, but Sesame Street is coming. It’s coming. Like, we’re we’re gonna introduce Sesame Street to him. We just haven’t yet.

Dan Meyer (43:37):

Sesame Street straight raised me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:38):

Right?

Dan Meyer (43:39):

Yeah. Don’t tell my parents. But that’s, yeah, that’s true. I’m excited, too. It’s gonna be a blast.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:45):

I’m really excited. I think that the more we dive into this topic—which, again, we’re gonna look at math anxiety from a lot of different angles—and I’m excited to talk to Dr. Truglio about how we can take this research and these conversations that are happening about math and how it can actually impact what’s happening in homes. ‘Cause we wanna help create positive relationships with mathematics, with kids in math. I’m so excited. And I hope you folks keep listening. We love having you here in the Lounge. And if you haven’t already, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get podcasts. And if you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps more listeners to find the show, and let other folks know about this show. Recommendations are great. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Dr. Erin Maloney says about math

“If we can change their mindset, then we can set students on a path to more opportunities and success.”

–Dr. Erin Maloney

Associate Professor in the School of Psychology, Director of the Cognition and Emotion Laboratory, and the Canada Research Chair (Tier II) in Academic Achievement and Well-Being, all at the University of Ottawa

Meet the guest

Erin Maloney is an Associate Professor and Canada Research Chair at the University of Ottawa. Her research sits at the intersection of Cognitive Psychology, Developmental Psychology, and Education and focuses on cognitive and emotional factors that relate to academic achievement. She is a world-renowned expert on the study of math anxiety, conducting research in the lab, in homes, and in classrooms with children, parents, and their teachers. She is passionate about both knowledge mobilization and equity, diversity, and inclusion within education and science.

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S2-06: Making time for science in the K–5 classroom

Promotional graphic for "Science Connections" podcast, Season 2 Episode 6, featuring Lauran Woolley discussing making time for science in K–5 classrooms.

In this episode,  Eric Cross sits down with TikTok star and podcast host Lauran Woolley about her experience teaching science content within her K–5 classroom. Lauran shares how she’s learned how to make time for science, and what most K–5 teachers experience when creating their own science curriculum. Lauran also talks about her rise in popularity on TikTok, her podcast, Teachers Off Duty, and establishing strong relationships with her 5th grade students. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Lauran Woolley (00:00):

I wanna make sure that they’re ready for the real world, and I wanna make sure that they’re able to apply these things that I’m teaching them in their life, not on a multiple choice test.

Eric Cross (00:11):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host Eric Cross. My guest today is Lauren Woolley. Lauren is a full-time fifth grade teacher in Leetonia, Ohio, who has amassed a following of 5.5 million subscribers on TikTok and over 1 million followers on YouTube. She’s also co-host of the podcast, Teachers Off Duty. Lauren has combined her teaching vocation and her talent for entertaining to connect with her students and encourage teachers across the world using her own unique style of edutainment. My most vivid memory from our discussion was her sincerity and openness about her experiences. It quickly became obvious to me that her personal transparency was a characteristic that she has remained grounded in despite her social media success. And now, please enjoy my discussion with Lauren Woolley.

Eric Cross (00:53):

You’re currently teaching fifth grade?

Lauran Woolley (00:55):

Yes.

Eric Cross (00:55):

What is it like to teach all content areas? ‘Cause I’m a middle school science teacher.

Lauran Woolley (00:59):

I didn’t always teach all content areas. First I started in second grade, so I used to teach like primary. I taught that for about three years. And I only really got my 4-5 endorsement because it was told to me that it would make me more marketable as a teacher. So I got it <laugh>. I was like, I’m never gonna use that. And then, my second year teaching, my class had low numbers and they collapsed my second grade classroom, split up my students, and then moved me to fifth grade in January. I had to take over a fifth grade class with all content areas in the middle of a school year. And it was really hard. It was like probably one of the most challenging things I’ve ever had to do teaching. When I got my job at my current school, it was only language arts, social studies.

Lauran Woolley (01:46):

So we only have two fifth grade classes. My other teacher would teach math, science. I taught language arts, social studies, and then the timeframes weren’t matching up. Like, I didn’t have enough time in my schedule for all the things we had to do in our curriculum. And she had like a little bit too much time. We realized as a district that it would be better for our fifth grade classes to just be self-contained. And last year was the first year I taught all five subjects. And I liked the variety of teaching everything because when I taught just language arts, social studies, I just felt like I was repeating myself twice a day. <laugh>. It was kind of boring for me. So like, I like doing all of it. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (02:24):

Yeah. With all of your talents and like your background and what I’ve seen, I could totally see why having all the different content areas would like make sense. Are you using a set curriculum? How do you come up with what to teach? Do you do it with teams? Like who comes up with that?

Lauran Woolley (02:36):

Uh, me, myself and I.

Eric Cross (02:38):

Well done.

Lauran Woolley (02:39):

My school, for literacy we’re using literacy collaborative. Then for math, we just adopted bridges, which I love and it’s very hands-on, very like student-led. For science, we had nothing. And I am not a science, or was not a science teacher at the time when I took over. So I panicked a bit and I was like, “Hey, can we have some kind of science curriculum? ‘Cause I got nothing.” And it’s not hard to look at the state standards and figure out what you need to teach them, but having no resources to go off of is extremely difficult. And luckily I have an older brother, he’s like three years older than me and he’s also a teacher. He actually is a science teacher. ‘Cause that first year that I was teaching all subjects, I was like, “Hey Ryan, can you just like send me all of your Google Drive files for science <laugh>?

Lauran Woolley (03:33):

And he’s like, “Yeah, sure.” So he kind of was like a mentor for like the first year that I taught science. And this year being my second full year teaching science, I feel much more confident. I’m still using his resources. We don’t have a dedicated curriculum at my school. So that’s like one thing I’ve been fighting my school on. And not that they don’t wanna get us one, but like they were focused on getting the math curriculum last year. And then I was told, okay, this year will be science because in my state, fifth grade is a tested area for science and we have no curriculum.

Eric Cross (04:04):

Ryan, keep doing what you’re doing big bro. Second, thank you to every teacher who’s had a Google Drive folder full of curriculum that you graciously shared to a new teacher or someone else that they could have.

Lauran Woolley (04:18):

Can we just say like, can schools, like schools, please get your teacher’s science curriculums.

Eric Cross (04:24):

No, absolutely right. And there is this way of thinking that, especially as a science teacher, it’s something that is dear to my heart, but we do want to develop these math and English skills that’s important and we need that for science. But we’ve always taught so siloed for so long, but that’s not the way that we learn and that’s not the way life works. Something that intrigued me about what you said, and I think a lot of people can relate to it, and I know I can because that was me, is you created your own content or your science content. Like you’re kind of piecing that together from what Ryan had shared with you. How do you make time for that with all of the other things that you’re doing and pressures of state testing and things like that. Like how do you weave that into your teaching?

Lauran Woolley (05:02):

So we have like things that are non-negotiable in our schedules. Like we have to have so many minutes of this, so many minutes of that, so many minutes of whatever else. Well, the first year, I was self-contained. I was like, okay, my main goal, because science is a tested area, I wanna make sure that I get in science every single day, 90% of the time I’m able to get anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes of science every day. But this year it was my goal to make sure that I was getting science done and like we were doing meaningful lessons. And last year I didn’t do this, but this year I’m doing a Christmas center for STEM. So I got it off of Teachers Pay Teachers. I’m sorry, I can’t remember who it was made by, but it’s called Jingle All the Way and it’s like building Santa’s new sleigh. And so like the kids have an activity where they have popsicle sticks, straws, a plastic cup and then like tape. And they have to build a new sleigh for Santa and see how many pennies their sleigh can hold. Like talk about a sleigh being lightweight but also strong and like what would make it strong and different things like that. So I’ve been trying to incorporate a lot more STEM activities. And then something I really like to use for experiment days, I call them lab days, is Gizmo. Have you heard of Gizmo?

Eric Cross (06:15):

Yeah. The simulations.

Lauran Woolley (06:16):

Yeah. My brother showed me that too and he was using it in his class. I mean there’s so many different ones that they have that align with the standards and they have like student lab sheets that go with them and teacher guides and stuff. I’ve just been trying to like up my game a little bit more this year, because last year I was like struggling to get all of the standards in before state testing came around because, can we agree, state testing should not be as early as it is? Our state test happens in like March and we have two months of school left. So like, we better be done with standards by February so we could review, because otherwise we’re kind of outta luck because we run outta time.

Eric Cross (06:59):

Yes. That and there’s all kinds of other things that state testing brings with it that we could spend a lot of time probably critiquing and talking about like as far as what’s ideal for kids and what’s the best way to measure and assess learning. That is one question I wanna ask you though, because I know with your work on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, you must be connected to a pretty vast teacher network and maybe you have like, kinda like more of an inner circle of people, but you must come across so many different perspectives and get into great discussions. Is there <laugh>, is there anything that kind of stands out to you as far as if you were in charge of what we’re doing? Because that’s kind of the system that we all live in and we kind of are trying to internally change it, but it’s been that way for a long time and we just kind of have to work within it until we can make changes. But if you were to, I dunno from an elementary school perspective, change or modify the way kids are learning, what would you do if you had Monarch ability?

Lauran Woolley (07:54):

Okay, I got three main things I’m thinking in my head. Okay, first things first, we got Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Okay. If kids are coming to school hungry, if they’re coming to school and don’t have, you know, fresh clothing to put on, if they’re coming to school and they have issues at home that they are dealing with, that they are not okay with, the learning is not happening. That’s secondary. They don’t, it doesn’t matter to them. It doesn’t matter to me because what’s most important is that child as a human being and whether or not they’re okay. If I had unlimited resources, I would love to be able to build like a little mini village inside a school and have like a clothing store that kids could grab stuff from. Or like a, you know how I know how school have like closets and food pantries, but like a real place they could get some new clothes, not like hand-me-down clothes, like a store they could go and grab some food if they needed food for their homes or whatever. We have like an onsite counselor but not like a school counselor, like a therapist-type counselor for like mental health. Having some kind of like health clinic, not just like a school nurse because, let’s be real, our school nurses see everything <laugh> and they do not get enough credit, but like to have like a little like urgent care clinic, like basically a small town <laugh> inside a school that like kids would have all of the resources that they need met. Like that would be my number one thing that I would love to do. I have taught in, you know, I’ve only taught in two different schools, but like I’ve seen a lot of things and the number one thing that keeps coming back is just like home lives and mental health and having someone to talk to.

Lauran Woolley (09:41):

And I think our kids don’t have enough of that. Second of all, would be obviously state testing. Because I mean, it’s good to see like where our kids are at. I don’t think it should be used punitively and I don’t think that it should be putting as much pressure on teachers and students the way that it is. It’s not effective that way at all. Let teachers do their jobs without us having to, like, ’cause honestly, who’s not gonna say that they’re not trying to set their students up to do the best on that test. Our evaluation depends on it. I’m gonna make sure my students are prepared for it. I’m gonna teach all the standards, but like, I shouldn’t have to be teaching so that they could do well on a test. I wanna make sure that they’re ready for the real world and I wanna make sure that they’re able to apply these things that I’m teaching them in their life, not on a multiple choice test. Third of all, <laugh>.

Eric Cross (10:33):

This, this is great. And I think a lot of teachers will listen and be like, “That’s what I’m talking about right there.” Keep going. You’re on three.

Lauran Woolley (10:40):

That would be two teachers in every classroom. Either two teachers in each room or like a teacher and a paraprofessional in each room, because there’s not even an argument that teachers are more effective when they have help.

Eric Cross (10:54):

I would even carry the math on further and say that it’s a force multiplier, like exponentially, that it’s not just, it’s not just like a one plus one equals two teachers. It’s almost like you can almost have like three or four just because of the energy and the synergy that can be created between the two. And you can push off of each other, encourage one another and both support different types of students. So I agree a hundred percent. I think that if you had two teachers that were in sync and planning together and talking about kids all of the time, you would be able to go deeper with students. You’d be able to find out those things that you talked about in Maslow’s because sometimes we don’t find out about it until a parent-teacher conference or kids left our classroom. I wish I would’ve known that. The student was without these things in the very beginning.

Lauran Woolley (11:41):

Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Eric Cross (11:42):

So when do you start in the school and do we go on LinkedIn to sign up and apply or is it like a lottery system? Like, ’cause you know, I was gonna get a lot of attention.

Lauran Woolley (11:52):

I would love to Oprah Winfrey this and like build my own school <laugh>.

Eric Cross (11:56):

We gotta get those followers up. We gotta build up the sponsorships. We gotta get you up to a hundred million.

Lauran Woolley (12:01):

Listen, if all of my followers across all my platforms donated like $2, we could have $12 million to build a school. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (12:10):

Think about like, DonorsChoose, right? People do that. And I know there’s mixed feelings about it because we need stuff in our classroom. I’m just gonna say that. All right. So, whether I have to ask for it on a website or whatever, but people want to give directly to kids, or people who need it. And I think when there’s opportunities like that, that are visible, people are more likely to want to.

Lauran Woolley (12:29):

In reality, should other people have to fund education in classrooms? No. That’s literally what your taxes are for. A government-funded classroom versus a teacher-funded classroom are two different things. And we know that. But if teachers are asking for things or asking for donations on Amazon or on DonorsChoose, just know in your heart that that teacher has probably already shelled out a lot of their own cash to do that. It’s not that they’re, you know, asking for handouts or anything like that. They’re trying to give their students the best that they can and that’s the thought process behind it. And until we get changes in our education system or changes in legislature that will allow us to do that or will allow classroom budgets, I mean, our hands are tied. Like there’s only so much teachers can do. I’m very fortunate to teach in a district that sees the value in spending money on their teachers and students. And, like my school, like I said, they just shelled out thousands of dollars on a new math curriculum. They bought school supplies. Literally every teacher made their school supply list this year. And then the district went in and paid for every single student’s school supplies in the entire district.

Eric Cross (13:49):

Can we get a shout out to your district real quick?

Lauran Woolley (13:51):

Uh, yeah. I mean, shout out Leetonia schools like, I mean, you guys are awesome and I’ll shout that from the rooftops. I love where I teach. Like I really do think that they value our students and they care about our students and our admin is great. We got a new superintendent a couple years ago. He’s been doing a phenomenal job and I really love it and I’m glad I teach there.

Eric Cross (14:12):

When you move out of the classroom, you know, in any position of leadership, you do have the microscope or magnifying glass on you and a lot of times it’s critical. And not unjustifiably so, I mean, there’s a lot of things that can be critiqued. However, what we don’t always hear is the success stories or where it’s working for teachers and why. And we need leaders to be able to talk to each other and find, “Hey, it’s working in your district? Oh, I just heard, I just heard this district get shot out. I’m gonna go reach out to those people. Hey, what are you doing?” Because we connect with each other, but I think when you go like a level up, that kind of getting up the top of the mountain, the, the connection sometimes can become more difficult for people. There’s not a lot of, I don’t know, maybe there are, but admin influencers.

Lauran Woolley (14:54):

Oh yeah, there definitely are. And I’ve met some really incredible ones. I’m on a committee at my school, it’s called NNPS, it’s the National Network of Partnership Schools. It was started out of Ohio State University. Essentially it is a committee in the school that’s dedicated to bringing together the community and businesses and partnering with people to make our school as strong as it can be. We started last year and we did a bear breakfast, ’cause our mascot is a bear. And we had Christmas things and we had the choir caroling, and we had pancake breakfast for everybody and it was completely free. It was just really nice to see everybody come together. And it feels like the culture changes when people work together and come together for the betterment of the school and for the students. And I think what’s challenging is that so many people have such a negative experience from their schooling that they’re hesitant to get involved in their kids’ schooling. I urge any parents out there, any guardians out there that are, you know, in that mindset where you’re like, I didn’t like my teachers in school, or I had this, this, this and happened to me at school. Give it a chance to know that things have changed and things are changing.

Eric Cross (16:11):

I definitely agree with you about parent engagement and getting involved and sometimes parents, they just don’t know that they should. But wow, your voice is so powerful, especially at board meetings and things like that. Getting stakeholders involved, creating community, which it sounds like your school did a great job or your district did a great job of. The last question I wanna ask you, and it’s kind of going back to who your influencer was, is you now are in a position where your impact exceeds more than, you know. You’re planting so many seeds you’re sharing, and you’ll hear maybe a few, or I’m sure you’ll hear the things that kind of come back to you, but that’s only a fraction. But I wanted to ask you, like, as you think back on your career as an educator or when you were in school K through five or K through 12, is there anyone who stands out to you or who was maybe your influencer or teacher who made a big difference that was memorable? And if so, who was it and what was it about them or what did they do?

Lauran Woolley (17:01):

So I had a lot of teachers that I really had good relationships with and I loved school growing up. But one always stood out in particular, and that was my ninth grade English teacher and her name is Andrea Reid. She was the first person who really told me that I was talented at something and that I could succeed in something because she was the English teacher. She was also a coach of the speech and debate team at my high school. Just one day after school. She was like, “Hey, like you should come to speech tryouts.” So I went to tryouts, like I did it not thinking like I cared if I made it or didn’t, and then I made the team. And honestly, I feel like speech was the starting point of all of it. I competed in speech and debate for four years of high school and she was my coach.

Lauran Woolley (17:49):

I always have horrible nervousness with public speaking, even though I do it a lot. And she would always give me like the best hype speeches and the best confidence boosters. And I feel like speech started my love of acting and started my love of like, you know, comedy and stuff like that. And so therefore TikTok happened and I don’t think any of this would’ve happened had it not been for her and her opening that door for me and telling me, “Hey, you would be good at this. You should try it.” We’re still friends to this day, 15 years later, and she is like an older sister to me and I love it.

Eric Cross (18:26):

That’s amazing. Andrea Reed, that’s her name.

Lauran Woolley (18:28):

Andrea, yep.

Eric Cross (18:29):

Andrea. Andrea Reid. Ms. Reid, thank you, for inspiring Lauran and <laugh> because of your impact, now it’s impacting so many others and as teachers, like, we don’t even, we don’t know, but it’s so humbling to know that like the words that we say to people have that impact and power. It’s so, it’s, it’s so inspiring to me. One of the things that resonate with you so much is your transparency. Like in your depth. Like even as just listening to you talk, you normalize and humanize so many things that we experience and I’m sure that’s what a lot of the people that watch you connect with. You show your life, your family, your house, all these things that are happening. And I was just looking through the comments and there’s just so many people that are warmed. Not just your students, but like so many teachers. So thank you for doing what you’re doing and I wish you tremendous success. Thank you for your time.

Lauran Woolley (19:17):

No, thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. I just wish everybody a great school year and I hope that we all make it through winter break. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (19:27):

Thanks so much for listening to this season of Science Connections. I love learning about science educators just like you. You can nominate educators that inspire you to become a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM@amplify.com. That’s S T E M at amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and tune in for a brand new season of Science Connections coming soon.

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What Lauran Woolley says about science

“I want to make sure they’re ready for the real world and I want to make sure they’re ready to apply these things I’m teaching them in their life, not just on a multiple choice test.”

– Lauran Woolley

5th Grade Teacher, Northeast Ohio

Meet the guest

Lauran Woolley is a fifth grade teacher in Northeast Ohio. She has loved being able to combine her love of education and entertainment into one career. Her goal is not only to humanize educators to both families and students, but to create a safe space for her students on the internet. She has had the privilege of collaborating with educators around the world to shed a light on this amazing career. You can listen and watch the Teachers Off Duty podcast here!

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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1. Service Overview

As a provider of technology solutions to schools, Amplify’s commitment to data privacy and security is essential to our organization. This overview of Amplify’s Information Security Program describes physical, technical and administrative safeguards Amplify implements to protect student data in our care.

Company profile

Amplify Education, Inc. (Amplify) is a privately held company founded in 2000 as Wireless Generation. Amplify’s products include curriculum and instruction, assessment and intervention, professional development services and consulting services for K-12 education.

Service hosting

Amplify leverages Amazon Web Services (AWS) as its cloud hosting provider. Within AWS, Amplify utilizes Virtual Private Clouds (VPCs), which provide an isolated cloud environment within the AWS infrastructure. External network traffic to a VPC is managed via gateway and firewall rules, which are maintained in source code control to ensure that the configuration remains in compliance with Amplify security policy. In addition, the production VPCs and the development VPCs are isolated from each other and maintained in separate AWS accounts.

2. Policies & standards

Information security program

Amplify maintains a comprehensive information security program based on the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Cybersecurity Framework and the NIST SP 800-53 Rev. 5 family of information security controls. These provide a robust framework of best practices from which an organization can build its security policies and protocols based on identified risks, compliance requirements, and business needs. They cover critical practice areas, including access control, configuration management, incident response, security training, and other information security domains.

Governance

Amplify’s Information Security Committee has primary responsibility for the development, maintenance, and implementation of the Amplify information security program. The Information Security Committee is responsible for all information risk management activities within the company and is composed of technology, business and legal leaders from the organization. The Committee meets weekly and includes a dedicated VP of Information Security and a program manager to oversee, direct and coordinate its activities.

Policy execution

Adherence to the internal Amplify information security policy is an obligation of every Amplify employee. Amplify conducts a series of internal monitoring procedures to verify compliance with internal information security policies, and all Amplify employees undergo annual criminal background checks. In addition, any third-party contractors who come into contact with systems that may contain student data are contractually bound to maintain security and privacy of the data.

3. Data access controls

Access control

Amplify’s access control principles dictate that all student data we store on behalf of customers is only accessible to district-authorized users and to a limited set of internal Amplify users who may only access the data for purposes authorized by the district. Districts maintain control over their internal users and may grant or revoke access.

In limited circumstances and strictly for the purposes of supporting school districts and maintaining the functionality of systems, certain Amplify users may access Amplify systems with student data. All such access to student data by Amplify technicians or customer support requires both authentication and authorization to view the information.

Encryption

Data encryption is an important element of our protection of sensitive data at rest and in transit, and is reviewed and updated as appropriate annually, based on the latest standards and guidelines published by OWASP and NIST.

  • In transit: Amplify encrypts all student data in transit over public connections, using Transport Layer Security (TLS), commonly known as SSL, using industry-standard protocols, ciphers, algorithms, and key sizes.
  • At rest: Amplify encrypts student data at rest using the industry-standard AES-256 encryption algorithm.

4. Application security by design

Building the right roles into applications

Permissions within Amplify applications are designed on the principle that school districts control access to all student data. To facilitate this, Amplify applications are designed so that roles and permissions flow from the district to the individual user. For example, applications that offer schools a way to collect and report on assessment results have a web interface that requires district administrators to authorize individuals to view student data.

Security controls within applications are used to ensure that the desired privacy protections are technically enforced within the system. For example, if a principal is supposed to see only the data related to his or her school, Amplify ensures that, throughout the design and development process, our products restrict principals from seeing records for any students outside his or her school.

To make sure Amplify applications properly enforce permissions and roles, our development teams conduct reviews early in the design process to ensure roles and permissions are an essential component of the design of new applications.

Building security controls into applications

Amplify applications are also developed to minimize security vulnerabilities and ensure industry-standard application security controls are in place.

As part of the development process, Amplify has a set of application security standards that all applications handling student data are required to follow, including:

  • Student data is secured using industry standard encryption when in transit between end-users and Amplify systems.
  • Applications are built with password brute-force attack prevention.
  • User sessions expire after a fixed period of time.

We also conduct manual and automated static code analysis as well as dynamic application security testing to preemptively identify vulnerabilities published by industry leaders such as OWASP (Open Web Application Security Project)

5. Proactive security

Risk assessments

Amplify periodically engages a security consulting firm to conduct risk assessments, aimed at identifying and prioritizing security vulnerabilities. The Information Security Committee coordinates remediation of the vulnerabilities. The security consulting firm also provides ongoing advice on current risks and advises on remediation of vulnerabilities and incident response.

Penetration testing

Amplify engages third-party firms to continually conduct application penetration testing.  The purpose of this testing is to test for application security vulnerabilities in the production environment.  We work with third party penetration testing program partners. Third-party testing involves a combination of automated and manual testing.

Vulnerability management

Amplify ensures that its systems are free of known vulnerabilities in several ways. Every production server runs vulnerability detection software that compares the installed software against a global database of known vulnerabilities. Secondly, we employ real time network monitoring that reports on any potentially malicious traffic. In addition, a third-party security firm continually reviews all of our system logs for potential security breaches. Lastly we continually test our applications against common malicious internet traffic. Violations in any of these areas will alert one of our operations teams, who are available around the clock.

In addition, Amplify participates in a private bug bounty program through HackerOne, working with the security community to find security vulnerabilities and support our efforts to keep our data and systems safe and secure.

Endpoint security

Access to production systems at Amplify is restricted to a limited set of internal Amplify users to support technical infrastructure, troubleshoot customer issues, or other purposes authorized by the district. In addition, Amplify requires multi-factor (MFA) authentication methods for access to all production systems. MFA involves a combination of something only the user knows and something only the user can access. For example, MFA for administrative access could involve entering a password as well as entering a one-time passcode sent via text message to the administrator’s mobile phone. The use of MFA reduces the possibility that an unauthorized individual could use a compromised password to access a system.

Infrastructure security

Network filtering technologies are used to ensure that production environments with student data are properly segmented from the rest of the network. Production environments only have limited external access to enable customers to use our web interfaces and other services. In addition, Amplify uses firewalls to ensure that development servers have no access to production environments.

Other measures that Amplify takes to secure its operational environment include system monitoring to detect anomalous activity that could indicate potential attacks and breaches.

Security training

At Amplify, we believe that protecting student data is the responsibility of all employees. We implemented a comprehensive information security awareness training program that all employees  undergo upon initial hire, with an annual refresher training. We also provide information security training and annual social engineering tests for specific departments based on role.

6. Reactive security

Monitoring

Intrusion detection and prevention systems (IDS/IPS) are in place to analyze the network device logs, monitor the network and report anomalous activity for appropriate resolution.

Incident response

Amplify maintains a comprehensive Security Incident Response Policy Plan, which sets out roles, responsibilities and procedures for reporting, investigation, containment, remediation and notification of security incidents. Amplify works with reputable firms for incident response and digital forensics support, as well as annual table-top exercises in coordination with cybersecurity experts.

Business Continuity Planning and Disaster Recovery

Amplify maintains a comprehensive Business Continuity Planning and Disaster Recovery Plan (BCP/DR), to guide personnel in procedures to protect against business disruptions caused by an unexpected event. The plans and related operations processes are tested on a semiannual basis, with ensuing operations improvement and remediation work.

7. Compliance

Audits

In addition to penetration testing and other proactive security testing and monitoring outlined above, Amplify undergoes annual SOC 2 Type 2 examinations of controls relevant to security. The examination is formally known as a Type 2 Independent Service Auditor’s Report on Controls Relevant to Security. The most recent examination was conducted by Schellman & Company, LLC and covers the period from April 1, 2024–March 31, 2025. The report states that Amplify’s systems meet the criteria for the security principle and opine on management’s description of the organization’s system and the suitability of the design of controls to protect against unauthorized access, use, or modification.

The Type 2 report also opines on the operating effectiveness of controls over the review period. This means that our auditors confirmed that we have continued to follow established security controls over the period of time of the review.

Certifications

SOC 2: Amplify successfully completed the SOC 2 Type 2 examination of controls relevant to security (see above, under “Audits”).

Privacy

Amplify’s products are built to facilitate district compliance with applicable data privacy laws, including FERPA and state laws related to the collection, access and review and disclosure of student data. Amplify’s Customer Privacy Policy describes the types of information collected and maintained on behalf of our school district customers and limitations on use and sharing of that data.

8. Supporting documentation

In the course of customer security assessment, the following documentation can be provided by Amplify upon customers’ request:

  • Penetration Testing Report
  • Risk Assessment Report
  • SOC 2 Type 2 Report

9. Report a vulnerability

To report a security vulnerability, click here.

School by Design (SxD) becomes an independent company dedicated to helping education leaders design the schools their kids and teachers need

SxD will be led by Andrew Joseph, a senior executive at Amazon Education and the co-founder of TenMarks Education, Inc., a personalized online math program. Vicki Phillips, the previous K-12 Director of Education – College Ready at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, will join the SxD Board of Directors, along with David Stevenson, Executive Vice President of Amplify.

SxD brings a design thinking approach to education’s annual resource planning cycle—from district budgeting to master scheduling—so that it shifts from an administrative process to a strategy for instruction. Delivered through an online platform, analytic tools, and technical assistance, SxD services include:

  • Specialized resource audits that give districts and schools a quick way to see how resource allocation and utilization are currently impacting instructional decisions related to teacher time, student time, equity, class size, and more.
  • Scenario planning to uncover the different ways budgets and time could be used based on the school experience leaders and teachers want to provide students and the supports staff need. Examples include: looking at ways to manage class size within current budget while also finding more time for teacher professional development; and exploring school designs developed around student learning opportunities such as STEAM, problem-based learning, and community-based learning.
  • Decision-making supports for districts and schools to make informed decisions about budgeting, scheduling, and school model options so that they support, not block, high quality teaching and learning experiences.

“School by Design is tackling one of the biggest challenges for districts and schools: making sure resources and policies support teachers and students,” explains Vicki Phillips. “The SxD services and supports are invaluable to schools because they help solve, within budget, the age-old ‘pain points’ that undermine good teaching—issues such as class size, time for teacher collaboration and professional learning, and scheduling for interdisciplinary learning and student field experiences.”

School by Design is built around the leading work of Marilyn Crawford on resource alignment, master scheduling, and professional development in service of innovative teaching and learning. Over the past few years, School by Design has worked with dozens of districts and CMOs across the country to find thousands of hours for teacher professional development and planning, while helping schools address the unique learning needs of their students within budget.

“School by Design helps you solve problems. Most people know what their issues are, but School by Design helps them know what to do about it,” states Steve Broome, director of state development for high school and middle grades at the Southern Regional Education Board (SREB). Working with education leaders, Steve and the team at SREB use the SxD audit and scenario planning to help schools turn their High Schools that Work principles—such as multiple pathways to college and careers—into reality.

The SxD spinoff enables Amplify to focus on its core offerings of digitally-enabled instruction, assessment, and professional development for K-5 reading and language arts and middle school ELA, math, and science. As Amplify’s and SxD’s services and products are distinct but complementary, the organizations expect to collaborate to serve districts and schools.

“I’m honored to be leading School by Design to the next level,” says Andrew Joseph. “We are uniquely positioned in this too-often ignored space where resources meet instruction. Our platform and services have helped a number of districts and schools solve their resource allocation and scheduling challenges and uncover the possibilities for their schools. We’re excited to now help other educators create the conditions in which teaching and learning can thrive.”

As an independent company, School by Design will be better able to respond to the evolving needs of educators and expand its suite of products and services. Through actionable analytics, virtual experiences, and new school models, SxD will further its position as the leader of education design thinking—helping school leaders leverage data, see all of the opportunities for engaging, high quality schooling within their resources, and make informed decisions for the types of schools their teachers, parents, and students want and deserve.

Contact: media@amplify.com

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Join our User Research Community!

Help shape Amplify products.

Educators and students are at the center of what we do. That’s why we test our products with real users, visit classrooms across the country, and gather ideas and feedback from educators like you! This is how we ensure that we’re developing new products that meet your needs, as well as continuously improving our existing products to better support your classrooms.

That’s where our User Research Community comes in. This is a group of valued educators we look to for their expertise! They regularly participate in research and feedback opportunities and share their insights with our Product teams.

We hope you’ll consider joining Amplify’s User Research Community. When we have a study that’s a good fit for you, our team will reach out with details and next steps.

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Why participate in user research?

Make an impact

Help influence and improve Amplify products by sharing your feedback and ideas

Get sneak peeks

Learn about new products and features that Amplify teams are working on

Connect with us

Share your thoughts and feedback directly with Amplify product development teams

Enjoy thank-you gifts

Receive incentives as a thank you for your time

What to expect

When you sign up to join the Amplify User Research Community, we’ll ask you some questions that will help us match you with research studies. When an opportunity sounds like a good fit, we’ll send you an email and share the details up front, such as study topic, research format, time commitment, and compensation. Then, you can decide if you’d like to participate.

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Frequently asked questions

Sign Up

We’re looking for all types of educators to join our User Research Community: new Amplify users, power users, and everyone in between. We’re also looking for people who don’t use our products. If you work in a school setting or support schools, we want to hear from you. Here are some of the people we’d love to connect with:

  • Classroom teachers (PreK–12)
  • Biliteracy teachers
  • Special education teachers
  • Interventionists
  • Coaches
  • Curriculum directors
  • School administrators
  • District administrations
  • Parents and caregivers

We have a separate research program for K–12 students. Learn more about our Playtesting program below.

Amplify runs a variety of research studies, and we’ll include the details of the study in our email. When you participate in one of our studies, you might be invited to:

  • Talk to a researcher in a video call: Share your experiences with a specific product.
  • Share your screen: Show us how you use Amplify’s products, try out a prototype, or test new features.
  • Complete a survey: Answer questions about your current practices and/or preferences.
  • Host a school visit: Have a few Amplify employees visit your classroom to observe our programs in action.
  • Participate in a long-form study: These studies may involve a small commitment for several days or over a few weeks. You may be asked to review new materials or designs or to try something out in your classroom. Our researchers may ask you to respond to questions or take notes based on your experience using a product.

The information you provide will only be used to match you with suitable research studies and won’t be shared or sold to external parties. All data is stored on a secure server. See our Privacy Policy for more detail.

Amplify’s goal is to design welcoming product experiences. To do this well, it’s important for us to get feedback from everyone. We collect demographic information to help ensure that study participants represent the educators, students, and school environments we serve. All questions are optional and your information is kept confidential in accordance with our Privacy Policy.

You can opt out at any time by clicking unsubscribe in any of our research emails.

We typically offer e-gift cards as a way of saying thank you to those who participate in our research studies. We’ll include the exact details of the thank-you gift in the email invitation for the session. If your session is eligible for a thank-you gift card, you should receive it within five business days after completing your session. Please note that not all study participants will receive a thank-you gift.

Amplify Playtesting Program

A fun and empowering experience for kids

Students in our Playtesting Program provide feedback on new Amplify games and features as they’re being developed. Our researchers work one-on-one with students for 30 minutes at a time, inviting them to interact with new games and designs and gathering their feedback. We then integrate that feedback directly into our product development. It’s a chance for students to share their thoughts and ideas and have a real impact on the programs we’re building.

A girl wearing headphones smiles while using a laptop, surrounded by illustrations of a building and a house. A colorful creature dances nearby, reminiscent of the creative tools K-12 teachers use to inspire young minds.

Who can participate?
Any students in kindergarten through grade 12 this school year can be part of our playtesting program, with parental permission.

What are the perks?
Aside from a fun time and a sneak peek at what’s in development, all students receive a $20 Amazon gift card for participating in a playtesting session.

When, where, and how do kids participate?
When playtesting needs arise, our User Research team will reach out to parents/caregivers to schedule a Google Meet session at a time that’s convenient for you and your child.

How can I sign my child up?
To enroll your student, please fill out this consent form. Your child will then be added to our playtesting program database. When a playtesting opportunity arises that we think would be a good fit, we’ll reach out!

Camp Curioso FAQs

We build better products by speaking to our users! Camp Curioso is an opportunity for students to act as Junior Designers, providing valuable feedback on our products in development. During the three weeks of Camp Curioso, students will participate in both one-on-one sessions and focus groups with other students their age. We use student feedback to inform how we build our products. Thank you in advance for your support of this program!

For this summer’s Camp Curioso, we’re looking for students who will be in grades 1 through 6 during the upcoming 2024–25 school year. We have room for around five students per grade—so space is limited!

Camp Curioso 2024 is three weeks long, beginning on July 15 and wrapping up on August 2. Junior Designers will have two weekly commitments:

  1. A weekly 30-minute one-on-one session with an Amplify playtester. These sessions will be on the same day and at the same time each week (to be decided with caregivers).
  2. A one-hour focus group on Fridays, where students will meet other Junior Designers their age from around the country!
    a.  Grades 1–3 focus group: 11:00 a.m.–12:00 p.m. ET
    b.  Grades 4–6 focus group: 3:00 p.m.– 4:00 p.m. ET

*There will be a Camp Curioso Kickoff for caregivers and students on Thursday, July 11 from 5:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. ET. We’ll provide an overview of the program and get everyone excited for Camp Curioso! If you can’t make it, don’t worry; the kickoff will be recorded and emailed to you.

All Camp Curioso sessions will be virtual, held on Google Meet.

All data will be reviewed and shared internally to inform ongoing product development. Video recordings, transcripts, and students’ personally identifiable information are stored in a secure database that only our Amplify researchers can access.

Each Junior Designer will receive a $100 Amazon gift card upon completion of the Camp Curioso program.

We ask caregivers to be present at the start of the session to help Junior Designers with technical set-up.

Amplify’s Subprocessors

This page provides the current list of third party service providers that Amplify engages to help us provide our services and may have access to Personal Information of our customers (“Subprocessors”) as outlined in Amplify’s Customer Privacy Policy.

How to get notified of changes

Please use the “Subscribe to Updates” functionality at the top of the page to receive emails from Amplify regarding updates to the list of Subprocessors and/or changes to the information provided on this page. Should you choose not to use this functionality to receive email notifications, it is our expectation that you check the link regularly for any updates.

Our commitments regarding Service Providers

All of the Subprocessors listed below have a legitimate need to access Personal Information in order to provide their service to Amplify as a part of Amplify’s provision of the services to our customers. With regard to Subprocessors, Amplify commits to:

  • Conduct due diligence on the data privacy and security measures of new Subprocessors before providing access to Personal Information and monitor on an annual basis thereafter. As part of this process, Amplify reviews the Subprocessor’s security documentation, practices, and posture to ensure alignment with Amplify’s information security program and standards;
  • Enter into a written agreement which requires at least the same level of protection for Personal Information and individuals as set out in Amplify’s Customer Privacy Policy and our agreements with customers, as applicable, before providing access to Personal Information;
  • Restrict the Subprocessor’s access to Personal Information to only what is necessary to fulfill our contractual obligations or as otherwise permitted under the agreements with our customers or under applicable data privacy laws; and
  • Remain liable for any processing of Personal Information carried out by Subprocessors to the same extent we would be liable if performing the services ourselves.

Subprocessors

Amplify’s Subprocessors of Personal Information are:

Subprocessor Purpose Location Student Data Educator Data
Amazon Web Services Cloud hosting services United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Anthology (formerly Blackboard) Video conferencing and attendee tracking for tutoring services United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Boomi, Inc. Data integration United States   A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Datadog Performance and security monitoring United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
dbt Labs, Inc. Run database queries United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Egnyte, Inc. Secure file exchange United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Fivetran, Inc. Database loading United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Gainsight, Inc. Customer support United States   A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Google, LLC Cloud hosting services United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Google, LLC (Looker) Data warehouse analytics United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
 A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
HubSpot Email delivery United States   A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
MongoDB, Inc. Database hosting United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background. A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Salesforce Customer relationship management United States   A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
SchoolDay (formerly GG4L) Secure rostering United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background. A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Snowflake, Inc. Database hosting United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background. A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Talkdesk, Inc. Customer support United States   A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.
Twilio, Inc. (Sendgrid) Email delivery United States A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background. A large, light peach-colored checkmark on a transparent background.

Updates

Date of Change Change Notes
October 10, 2025 Changed Blackboard to Anthology and GG4L to SchoolDay. Update MongoDB purpose. Added Datadog to the Students Subprocessor List. Created Educators Subprocessor List. Anthology and SchoolDay updated their corporate branding. Added list of Educator Data Subprocessors to clarify which partners process educator data.
June 14, 2024
 Removed Desmos Studio, PBC, Qualfon Data Services Group, LLC, and Zendesk, Inc. These partners and services are no longer used for customer support.
July 27, 2023
 Added Fivetran
 –
September 15, 2022
 Corrected name of Desmos Studio, PBC.
 –
July 21, 2022 Added Desmos Collective LLC, Google, MongoDB, Twilio, and Zendesk These services support Mathigon.org and Desmos Classroom
July 20, 2022 Added Qualfon Data Services Group, LLC –
October 4, 2021 Added Blackboard, Inc. –
July 26, 2021 Fishtown Analytics, Inc. renamed to dbt Labs, Inc. –
June 17, 2021 Updated with data warehousing and roster services providers –
May 28, 2021 Initial public posting. –

S3-01: Science as the underdog, and the research behind it

A graphic with the text "Science Connections" and "Amplify" features colorful circles and curved lines on a dark gray background.

Get ready for season 3 of Science Connections: The Podcast!

In our first episode, we unpack the research around our season theme of science as the underdog with Horizon Research, Inc. Vice President Eric R. Banilower and  Senior Researcher Courtney Plumley. Eric and Courtney dive into the research they’ve found and their experiences as former educators to show how science is often overlooked in K–12 classrooms. We discuss how the science classroom compares to other subjects in terms of time and resources, how schools are a reflection of society, and what’s needed to change science and its impact on a larger scale.

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Courtney Plumley (00:00):

We asked teachers how much science, professional development, they’ve had in the last three years, and nearly half of elementary teachers said none.

Eric Cross (00:10):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. I am super-excited to be kicking off the third season with the show. This entire season will be exploring the theme of science as the underdog. And we’re gonna make the case for science, by showing how and why it can be used more effectively. In the coming episodes, we’re gonna talk about how science can be better integrated into other content areas like literacy and math, and explore some of the benefits that you might not be thinking about good science instruction. But first, science as the underdog. I bet some of you out there feel like science is the underdog in your community at school. I know I have at times. To kick off this season, I’m gonna talk to two people who really studied this question by looking at the state of science instruction across the US. Eric Banilower is Vice President of Horizon Research and Courtney Plumley is Senior Researcher at Horizon Research. Eric was the principal investigator and Courtney an author of the latest in a series of studies called “The National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education.” We’re gonna dive into the findings of their most recent report to see what the data’s showing us. Please enjoy my discussion with Eric Banilower and Courtney Plumley. Courtney, hello. And thank you so much for joining us.

Courtney Plumley (01:25):

Hi Eric. It’s nice to be here.

Eric Cross (01:26):

And Eric, welcome.

Eric R. Banilower (01:27):

We’re thrilled to be here, so thank you for having us.

Eric Cross (01:30):

I was reading through the report. Four hundred…a very thorough report, 471 pages, I think, as I got it?

Eric R. Banilower (01:37):

And that’s only one of the many reports from that study.

Eric Cross (01:40):

Yeah. You all have done your work, so I’m really excited to to talk to you about this. And on this season of the show, we’re exploring the theme of science as the underdog. And I think a lot of our listeners, we feel like science is an underdog either in their school or in their district. But you’ve actually done some research on this, in a 2018 study, “The National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education.” So I wanna talk about this report. But first I was hoping you can kind of set the stage. How did you come to work on this report, and then, big picture, what were you hoping to find out?

Eric R. Banilower (02:10):

So the 2018 study that you just mentioned was actually the sixth iteration of a series of studies dating back to 1977. And we collect data every decade or so—you know, plus or minus a few years. And really, what we’re trying to do is get a snapshot of what the science and math education system looks like in in the nation. So my role grew. I started working at Horizon in about 1998, after teaching high school for five years in California. And then going to graduate school. And right about that time, the company was doing the 2000 iteration of the survey. And I worked on it with the team here at Horizon. And then we did it again in 2012. And I had a much more prominent role in that study, and became the kind of leader of the study. And in 2018, the most recent version, we just did it again. So the goal of this study is really to kind of examine key aspects of the K–12 STEM education system. And the main audience of the work has traditionally been policy makers, researchers, and practitioners who work at the federal, state, and district level.

Eric Cross (03:30):

So this study, you took kind of a sample size, but it’s reflective of trends that we tend to see across the nation as a whole. Would that be fair to say?

Eric R. Banilower (03:38):

Yes, definitely it is. It is a random sample of schools in the country. So we start with a list of all the public and private schools in the nation, and then do a random sample of those schools, and then work really, really hard to recruit schools to agree to be in the study. And that has gotten harder every time we’ve done the study, for many understandable reasons. And then once we have schools on board, we sample teachers within schools. So we don’t even survey every teacher in a school. It’s really a sub-sample. So that we can make inferences about the nation as a whole.

Eric Cross (04:14):

Makes sense. And so Courtney, what did you find out about the time spent on science instruction in US schools?

Courtney Plumley (04:22):

So, I’m gonna talk about elementary teachers to begin with.

Eric Cross (04:26):

Because that was your past life, right?

Courtney Plumley (04:28):

I am a former elementary teacher, yeah. So that’s kind of where my head is. And that’s relatable for me. Right? So we asked teachers, like, how many days of the week or weeks of the year that they teach elementary school. And fewer than 20% teach science every day of the school year. They kind of do one or two things, for the most part. They teach a couple days a week or they teach every day of the week, but only for, like, maybe six weeks, and then they swap with social studies and they kind of do that across the school year. Which is really different from, like, math, right? We also asked elementary teachers, how often do they teach math, and it’s every day of the year. Then we also asked them how many minutes they teach when they’re teaching, and we kind of did the math to figure out, all right, if they taught science every day of the school year, how many minutes would it be in a single day, so that we could make a more comparable comparison with math and ELA. If you were to work it out, how many minutes of science an elementary teacher teaches across the year, and break it down to per day, it’s like 18 minutes for the lower elementary grades, 27 for the upper elementary grades. Which is not a lot. But it’s pretty much an hour a day in math, and 80 plus minutes in ELA. So, a lot less. And then, you know, when I was teaching, the first thing to go was always science, right? If there was an assembly, if there was early release or whatever, that was the first thing to go. So those numbers might even be higher. Just because they aren’t factoring that kind of thing in, too.

Eric Cross (06:05):

So, now I’m curious. That is something that I’ve seen just anecdotally, science being the first thing to go. I feel like I’ve seen that almost…it’s almost become a meme, that I’ve heard that so often. Just in your experience, why do you think that is that huge disparity between the two?

Courtney Plumley (06:26):

Well, I mean, when I was teaching, I was teaching third grade. I had an end-of-grade test in math and ELA for my kids. I didn’t have one in science. So the administration said, “Hey, if you’re gonna drop something, drop something that’s not tested.”

Eric Cross (06:41):

Simple as that. And Eric, you, past life: physics teacher. High school. What did you see? ‘Cause our listeners run the gamut from elementary all the way up to high school. What did you see, as far as relative science instruction in the secondary level?

Eric R. Banilower (07:00):

Sure. You know, secondary is just a whole different situation than elementary. Rght? Because you have departmentalization. I taught science. I didn’t have to teach other subjects. And students had periods, and they still do, sorry, they still have periods, even though it’s been a long time since I taught. And you know, they rotate from one class to another. So all the classes were essentially the same length. So, you know, when I was teaching, it was about 50-minute periods. So in terms of minutes of a class or minutes on a subject, it’s not really different. But what is different is what students are required to take in order to graduate high school. One of the things we asked schools about in this study was how many years of a subject do students have to take in order to graduate? And what we saw was in mathematics, over half the schools in the nation require students to take four years of mathematics to graduate. OK? And the vast majority of the rest, about 44%, require three years in science. Most schools require three years. Very few require four years. And many, or a fair number, still only require two years to graduate. So the expectation of what students are taking is lower in science than it is in mathematics.

Eric Cross (08:20):

So you were seeing the same trend in secondary, essentially.

Eric R. Banilower (08:24):

Yes.

Eric Cross (08:24):

The amount of time devoted to the instruction of science…we’re kind of seeing it mirrored just across K–12 across the board.

Eric R. Banilower (08:33):

That’s correct.

Eric Cross (08:34):

And that’s across the country. ‘Cause the sample size represents teachers from Alaska, Hawaii, the South, SoCal, everywhere. So what’s been the reaction to that number? Like 18 to 20 minutes is…I mean, it’s, it’s half of my lunch at our school. What’s been the reaction to that number since this data has been published?

Eric R. Banilower (08:58):

I don’t know, Courtney, if you want to take that…

Courtney Plumley (09:00):

It’s a lot of what you just did. Like, what??? Like, how is it possible to teach all the things you need to teach in such a little amount of time?

Eric R. Banilower (09:08):

What’s really kind of surprising to me, though — though now that I’ve worked on three iterations of the study, it no longer surprises me, but it did at first — is that these numbers really aren’t changing since we’ve started doing this study. You know, people thought maybe with No Child Left Behind and the increase in accountability, time on science might actually go down, because there was more testing in math and English Language Arts. It didn’t happen. It was pretty much constant, that this has been kind of the state of science education for a long time.

Eric Cross (09:44):

So Eric, if I’m hearing you right: The past studies, we’re not seeing an increase or a decline. This has been this way for how many years, roughly, would you say? Since it’s been studied?

Eric R. Banilower (09:54):

You know, I’d have to go back to the 1977 report to get the numbers, but I’m gonna say since then, it has not changed much, if at all.

Eric Cross (10:03):

So this has kind of been entrenched. This has been the norm for almost for the career of a teacher, almost generationally. We’re looking at anyone who’s been in the highest levels of leadership to someone just entering the classroom, this has been the way it’s always been. This is kind of for many people what they’ve only known.

Eric R. Banilower (10:20):

Right.

Eric Cross (10:21):

Kind of become the norm.

Courtney Plumley (10:21):

We didn’t even have science when I was in elementary school. We had science on a cart that came by, you know, every other week.

Eric Cross (10:28):

Was that like a food truck, but like the science version of it? It shows up and does quick science and takes off?

Courtney Plumley (10:35):

And New York was, I mean — we always watched Voyage of the Mimi. I don’t know if you ever watched that. But that’s what we watched every single time the Science on the Cart came. So it’s like a marine biology show. Ben Affleck was on it when he was a kid.

Eric Cross (10:48):

<laugh> Really? For me it was, Mr. Wizard. For some of my students, even now, Bill Nye. You know, the Bill Nye show or something would come on. So what happens when you look at less wealthy districts? Is there a relationship between community resources and science instruction, or is it pretty much equal no matter what the district resources are, the school’s resources are? Did you see any data there?

Eric R. Banilower (11:12):

Yes. We actually did a lot of disaggregating the data by community type, student demographics in the schools, to look to see whether there were areas of inequities across the country. And, you know, one of the factors we looked at was kind of a measure of socioeconomic status. You know, wealth in the community. By looking at percentage of students eligible for free or reduced-price lunch. And interestingly, in terms of time on science instruction, there is actually not a relationship between income level and how much time is spent at the elementary level on science, which actually surprised us.

Eric Cross (11:54):

Because you might have expected it to be the other way now. And granted, it’s 18 to 20 minutes, there isn’t much more to shave off off of that. But were there other differences, like when you compared those communities? Maybe it wasn’t the amount of science instruction, but was there anything else, like teacher preparedness, resources? Were there anything else that you did see discrepancies in? Or was it equal across the board?

Eric R. Banilower (12:13):

No, unfortunately there, there have been, and still are, a number of areas where community resources are related to pretty substantial differences in educational opportunities that students have. So, you know, we’re talking about the high school science requirements. One of the things that we saw was that high schools in less wealthy communities tend to offer less rigorous science courses than high schools in better-off-financially communities. So they may not be AP courses or second year advanced courses to the same extent that there are in the wealthier communities. That’s one big difference that we saw. Another one was what you were just saying about, sort of, the teachers who teach in these communities. You know, I think that for many years people have had a feeling that the best teachers go to the better off schools because it’s easier to teach there. Well, we see that the schools with the most poverty, they tend to have the newer teachers, who are just starting their career. They tend to have teachers who are less well prepared to teach their subject. And there’s a host of other differences we found. And you know, you mentioned the report being 400 pages. This other report that looks at these differences is also quite long, and, you know, identified a number of areas where there are these disparities in the system.

Eric Cross (13:43):

Well, we appreciate you synthesizing this for us, because this is super-important. And you’ve fleshed out a lot of things. And the fact that it’s driven by data, we as science teachers, we as scientists, being objective, really, really value that. Because this is actually validating a lot of the things that our listeners and myself, we experience anecdotally. But you don’t have a lot of things to network you. And sometimes, when you see this, you wonder if it’s just you, or is are other people experiencing this? And so as you start talking about this data, realizing, oh wow, this is not something in isolation. This is systemic. This is something that’s impacted. And then Eric, what you said about schools that were lower-income, that were under-resourced, and didn’t offer those advanced classes, what are some of the impacts of that, maybe downstream, of doing that? Not having those AP classes? I just kind of wanted to put that out there and ask you.

Eric R. Banilower (14:31):

You know, this is a really…this is a current debate right now, about what the goals of schooling K–12 should be. You know, are all kids meant to go to college? Should there be alternative paths? And you know, I know when I was teaching, I would have students say, “Why do I need to know this? I’m not gonna go into science. I’m not gonna study physics. Why do I need to take this?” And, you know, the answer I used to give them was, “You never know where your life is gonna end up and what opportunities you’ll have. And by having these educational experiences, you have more opportunities available to you. Whether or not you choose to go down those paths, you have opportunities. And when you don’t take this kind of coursework, you know, even if you don’t want to go to college, you limit your potential careers. Because so many careers nowadays require some technical knowledge, some knowledge of science, even if it’s not explicitly a science job. It is embedded in our society now. We are a technological and science-based society.”

Eric Cross (15:37):

It reminds me of something that I’ve told my students, that if you become a scientist, that’s awesome. I love that. But if you don’t, and you want to be a dancer or an actor or a lawyer or anything that may not be directly related to STEM, I want you to choose it because it was a choice, and not a lack of options. So as long as you’re choosing not to go in STEM, and you don’t make that decision because you can’t, or because you weren’t given the opportunity. So that’s how I’ve always had this mindset as a teacher. And I’ve explained it to my students. So if you say, “Cross, you know what I want to do, I wanna be an awesome chef,” which, you know, low-key that’s science, right? <laugh> Molecular gastronomy, we know that. But like, you be the best chef. But as long as you’re being a chef because you choose that, and you’re like, “I love science, but I don’t wanna go that direction,” we’re good.

Eric R. Banilower (16:26):

Right. And if you think about, a lot of social justice issues with pollution and climate change, and you look at which communities are more affected by some of these larger environmental problems and challenges, it tends to be the lower socioeconomic communities, the more poverty-stricken communities have worse water, have worse air quality. And so if, if people from these communities are going to make informed decisions about who they’re gonna vote for, about what policies they’re gonna support, those are science topics that you have to have some understanding in order to make informed decisions in your life.

Eric Cross (17:09):

Courtney, you were one of the Swiss Army Knife teachers. This is how I perceive it for elementary. You had to teach everything. And shout out to all of my elementary school teachers that have to be mathematicians and grammar whizzes and scientists and PE instructors and social emotional, all of those different things. you also looked at teacher preparedness. How did teachers feel about teaching science compared to other subjects like language arts and math? Did you see anything there?

Courtney Plumley (17:39):

We did, we did. And I’m glad you said, “How did they feel about it?” Because one thing that, you know, in a survey you can’t really do is capture how someone actually…how good someone actually…the quality of someone’s instruction. But you can ask them how prepared they feel. And you can even ask them like stats, like, “What did you major in in college?” You know. But you really are going on based on what what they say. So we ask them how prepared they feel to teach all the core subjects. And two-thirds of elementary teachers felt very well prepared to teach reading. They felt very well prepared to teach math. But when it comes to science, it’s less than a third felt very well prepared. And you know, like you said, when you’re teaching elementary school, you’re teaching all the subjects. But also in science, there’s usually four main instructional units in a school year. And they’re all from different science disciplines. So not only are you going on, like, “Maybe in college took a lot of bio classes, but I didn’t take any physics classes, and now I have to teach physics to my kids and I have no experience there.” So, you know, we also ask them how well-prepared they felt in these different disciplines. And the numbers are even smaller, you know. Fewer than a quarter felt very well-prepared in life science. And like 13% felt very well-prepared in physical science. So there’s definitely a big difference between how much teachers feel prepared for ELA and math versus science.

Eric Cross (19:08):

And just from a human perspective, when we don’t feel prepared for something, we’re not really gonna probably lean into it as much as we are into our strengths. Like, that’s just kind of how we are across the board.

Courtney Plumley (19:18):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (19:18):

I’m even like that with my own chores in the house. Or when I have things I need to get done, and I might not be as good at doing those things—it’s gonna be a heavy cognitive load; I’m gonna have to do some background research—I tend to find other areas to excel in. Like, I’m gonna be productive in this other area. I’m gonna really crush it here. But this other thing gets put to the back burner.

Courtney Plumley (19:36):

Totally. And the same reason I might skip science today, <laugh> ’cause it’s scary.

Eric Cross (19:41):

Yeah, exactly. But I love this book. <Laugh> Or we could do this math, and let’s really, really dive deep into it. Now, did you also look at professional development and instructional resources that are being provided?

Courtney Plumley (19:53):

We did.

Eric Cross (19:54):

And on the whole, how was the amount—and I’m seeing a trend here, so I’m kind of feeling like I know where this might go—but I wanted to ask it, did the amount of professional development and resources for science, was there much of a difference between that and other subjects?

Eric R. Banilower (20:10):

Well, I’ll start on this, and Courtney, feel free to jump in. You know, one of the things that we asked was how much kind of discretionary funding do schools devote to science and how much to mathematics? So, for consumables or equipment and supplies or computer software for teachers to use in the classroom. And it’s hard to compare, I think, across subjects because the demands for this kind of supplies, et cetera, is very different, I think, in science than it is in mathematics. Right? We have a lot of, you know, equipment for doing investigations, consumable supplies in science. And those things need to be replenished on a regular basis. It turns out, when we look at the data for school discretionary spending on this kind of stuff, the median school spends less than $2 per student at the elementary level on science, compared to over $6 for mathematics. At the high school level, it’s kind of reversed. Schools spend more money on high school science than they do on high school math. but even still, at the high school, it’s less than $7 per student. Which is not a lot of money being devoted to thinking about all the materials, supplies, chemicals, et cetera, that you need to teach science well, at the high school level. More disturbing is the fact that, you know, we were talking about inequities before, schools that serve less well-off communities spend less than schools that serve wealthier communities, by quite a big amount.

Eric Cross (21:46):

So essentially the per-student thing just kind of popped out to me: So, like, an expensive Starbucks drink is what we’re spending on science per student.

Eric R. Banilower (21:57):

At the high school level. Yes.

Eric Cross (21:58):

At the high school level. And I get those catalogs in the mail, from all of those big science companies. You can’t get much for seven bucks. At least, nothing high-level. And I know I do a lot of 99-cent store science. I go down the street, go to the 99-cent store. Thankfully we could do a lot of awesome science with just, you know, cheap things. But a lot of the higher level experiences, they’re pricey. But the experiences are so rich! And $7 at the high school level is nothing. It’s not much at all.

Eric R. Banilower (22:28):

Yeah. It is definitely, you know, kind of shocking to think about what we’re investing in our children’s future.

Eric Cross (22:37):

Now, just to put you both on the spot, ’cause I feel like that we’ve identified some…we’re seeing a trend here, we’re seeing a pattern. We’re talking about, you know, being science teachers. There’s a pattern going on here. Do you think it’s fair to characterize science as the underdog?

Courtney Plumley (22:52):

I think in elementary school, it is a fair statement. Because, like we said before, I mean they’re gonna preference math and ELA almost all the time. I mean, the other thing you’d asked a little bit ago was about professional development, too. And we do have some data on that. And we ask teachers, you know, how much science professional development they’ve had in the last three years. And nearly half of elementary teachers said none. And I know I didn’t have any science professional development. If I was gonna pick from among the catalog, I was picking one that I needed more, like math. Math and ELA. I keep making that statement, but just over and over, it’s the truth.

Eric Cross (23:31):

And going back to what you said earlier, because that’s where the accountability was, right? And that kind of came top-down.

Courtney Plumley (23:38):

Yes.

Eric Cross (23:38):

And influenced everything else.

Eric R. Banilower (23:40):

Yeah. Now, really interesting thing that we did, a year or so ago, ’cause someone asked us, you know, “Hey, could you look at this?” is we compared elementary science instructional time among states where science counted towards accountability versus states where science doesn’t count towards accountability. And at the upper elementary grades, more time was spent on science in schools in states where they had science accountability. Now I’m not arguing for adding science to accountability systems. But that’s a pretty telling piece of data.

Eric Cross (24:19):

What gets measured gets done.

Eric R. Banilower (24:20):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (24:20):

Or what was getting evaluated was getting done. And that raises, that opens up a myriad of other questions about testing, and what that reveals, and all of those different things. But at the end of the day, what you’re finding is that the things that were getting tested were the things that were getting the priority.

Eric R. Banilower (24:36):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (24:37):

How did we get to this point? And Eric, you said it goes back at least to ’77, but we look at society and we’re…I wanna say we’re post-pandemic, but we’re we’re not. but we’re trying to, we’re trying to get past that. But we’re looking at…we had innovations in biology, we have innovations right now in green energy and electric cars and all of these things that are STEM-based. We know that these are things that have moved humanity forward. And we look at the pipeline of people who are in STEM and we, we see the disparities and things like that. Why was science given less of a priority? I’m just curious. Maybe, Courtney, we could start with you, if you have any ideas. Or Eric. Either one. But how did we get here?

Eric R. Banilower (25:22):

<laugh> I think Courtney wants me to take that one. I’m older so I’ve seen more <laugh>. So, you know, I have the gray hair. She doesn’t. I think it’s complicated. And I know this sounds cliche, but but schools are a reflection of society, right? And, and so science education, you know, if you think back when Sputnik was launched, there became this great demand in America to improve and produce more scientists and engineers in response to this Cold War threat. Right? And then in the ’80s there was rising, oh, the gathering storm was an economic argument that we needed to increase science and math, you know, education and people going into those fields in order to compete economically against the global competitors. And I think that America has always produced a fair number, a large number, of high-quality scientists and engineers, you know. And we still lead the world in many ways. But where we’ve identified as a problem is who has those opportunities to go into those fields. You know, it used to be a very select, a very male-dominated, white male-dominated field. Right? And other people didn’t have the opportunity, or they were shown the way out pretty early. And we, I think, have come to realize as a country that, you know, the, the greater the diversity of thought that we can get into these discussions, the more innovative we can be and the more productive as a society we can be. And so I think we’ve had this shift in the country to, instead of thinking about just the quality for the select few, but to be thinking about the quality for everyone. And so that makes it seem like some of these challenges are greater than they used to be. And I think they’re different challenges, right? We’ve evolved as a society and I think schools have evolved.

Eric Cross (27:40):

There is a conversation I was in on a plane with a person who was a materials manager for a company that made the adhesive for sandpaper. And we were flying…I was flying to Denmark and he was flying to some other Scandinavian country. And we were just talking about it. And he came from another industry, and somehow the conversation led to science. I don’t know how that happened. But somehow I just started talking about science and I asked him about, Eric, kind of what you said about the US kind of leading the way in science innovation versus the rest of the world. And I asked him why. And he said one of the reasons why is because the heterogeneous thought. The different groups of people that are coming to a problem actually create more innovative and novel solutions. Versus when it’s more homogeneous. And everyone’s either culturally or just for whatever reason, kind of thinks a certain way. While they might have a more efficient way, the variety of solutions are not as varied and not as novel. I was reminded of that story based on what you just said. So it’s really interesting. So it seems to be that it benefits if we have more heterogeneous groups, more folks who are contributing to STEM, because that’s gonna be solving the next problem more efficiently. Or I guess maybe in my head it seems like the next we need…we do really well when we have a dragon to slay. I mean, it seems like we come together when that’s the case, right? Like, I dunno.

Eric R. Banilower (29:06):

No, I think that’s…I think that’s accurate.

Eric Cross (29:09):

Later on the season of the podcast, we’re gonna explore ways to better integrate science with other subjects like literacy and math. Were you able to study at all any more integrated approaches to science instruction? Does any of your research support that approach?

Courtney Plumley (29:25):

Not on the national survey, we didn’t study that. And it’s something that we’ve talked about before, because it’s difficult to get teachers to…we were talking about instructional time. It’s hard for teachers to put a number on it when they’re integrating, because, you know, it’s not like I have my science block from 3 to 3:30 anymore. Now it’s kind of scattered about. But it’s something that has been in the ether. We’ve been looking at it in a couple of projects. So there’s some evidence that it can be effective, especially for getting more, you know…the idea is you can get more time for science if you are integrating with other subjects. But one thing to kind of caution is like, students need to have opportunities to learn each discipline when they’re doing integrated instruction. So you don’t wanna just have, like, math in your science. Kids already know to just, like, support it. Then it’s hard to take time from math to put it into science when they’re not actually learning anything new. That’s the easy thing to do, though, is say, “Oh, my kids already know how to measure. We did that in a previous unit. So now we’ll we’ll do it as part of our science instruction.” So it’s a lot of work to make it so they’re learning something new, mathematics and science, at the same time. And it’s not really something that we think that teachers should be having to do on their own, with all the other things that teachers have to do. The last thing they need to do is be creating their own, you know, curriculum. Something that’s already…you know, it’s not straightforward. So we’ve been talking about it, we think it’s really something that instructional materials maybe need to be focusing on instead of teachers having to do that on their own,

Eric Cross (31:01):

Teachers would implement it, but asking them to create it is a whole different thing, and it’s a huge ask.

Courtney Plumley (31:08):

Yes.

Eric Cross (31:08):

Yeah. And, did I hear you right? So the ideal situation would’ve been the students learning a newer math concept, but embedded in a science kind of context? Or was that the better way? Versus, “I’m gonna take a math concept they already know and then just put it into the science setting?”

Courtney Plumley (31:26):

Well, if the idea is that you can get more science time if you’re, you know, integrating things, so you can maybe take time away from a specific math block by putting it with science, or whatever, then if the math is something that the kids already know, now you’re just taking away. I think that that has to be new in both cases, in order to justify having more time.

Eric Cross (31:49):

Right. Eric, in the secondary level, any thoughts on that? On integrating these disciplines together?

Eric R. Banilower (31:56):

I think, you know, just like at the elementary level, it can be challenging to do it well. When I taught, I taught my last couple years in a kind of school-within-a-school kind of situation, where our goal was to try to integrate science, mathematics, and language arts. And it’s hard to do that in a meaningful way. And we did not have curriculum materials given to us to help us do this. We were trying to figure out how to do this on our own, while we were teaching 200 kids a day in our subjects. Right? And five preparations. And you know, it’s a big ask of any teacher. And there are teachers who thrive on this and are great at this. And, you know, that’s one thing I wanna, make clear: our data is about the system, and we are former teachers. Almost everyone who works at Horizon is a former teacher. We have the greatest respect for teachers and what they do. And what our data is showing is are kind of like areas where the system isn’t providing teachers and their students the opportunities to do great things. I think at the high school level, there has been this idea of project-based learning where students are bringing together different skills, different ideas from across disciplines. And I think there’s, again, a lot of potential in doing that. But trying to develop those experiences so that they are doing service to the different subjects, so students are learning what they’re supposed to learn in English Language Arts, that they’re learning, important mathematics, and that this is in a science context, where they are getting to do and understand what science is and how science, as a discipline, operates…that’s just a really hard thing to develop.

Eric Cross (33:53):

So what I’m hearing—and I really appreciate the nuance in this, because it’s not a simple “Yes. Integrated is better,”—I’m hearing “Yes. Quality control.” “Yes. It needs to be written not by teachers; they’re the practitioners.” It’s “Yes. And,” not just simply binary. Which…it’s so easy to wanna chunk things and say yes or no on things. But this one seems a much more nuanced approach. And in a future episode, you mentioned project-based learning, we’re gonna try and talk to people who have thoughts on this. And I really appreciate that you talked about project-based learning, because also, how do you evaluate that? How do you evaluate whether or not it is high quality? Is this is something I see? You know, high-quality standards, highest quality science teaching, highly qualified teachers. It’s something that I see often. Now, based on all your research, this is kind of the 30,000-foot view. What advice might you have for people who are thinking about changing the way science is taught in this country? Which hasn’t changed since 1977, at least since we’ve been measuring it. Any advice for people who do want to act? Another way to ask, it might be, if you were given a magic wand, <laugh>, you have all power, what might you do if you can control the entire vertical system?

Eric R. Banilower (35:07):

Yeah, so a clarification, I do think science instruction has changed. It has evolved. I think there’s a lot of really good things going on in different pockets of the country. One of the challenges is bringing those good ideas and good practices to scale. Right? There are approximately 1.2 million teachers of science K–12 in this country. That’s a lot of people. And about 80% of those are elementary teachers who are responsible for teaching other subjects as well. So my thinking is often about, “How do we take what we know and that we’ve learned through decades of research is effective, and impact a large number of teachers, and therefore a large number of students?” And you know, Courtney I think has hinted at this already. And you’ve mentioned it too, Eric, is that teaching is a profession, right? And it’s a craft. But in no other profession do practitioners have the expectation that they’re developing their own tools and methods for their work. I know when I was in my teacher preparation program, and it’s still extremely common, one of the assignments perspective teachers are given is to develop a unit and develop a lesson, right? You don’t have doctors being asked to develop new treatments and new tests to use. Their job is to get to know their patient, assess what’s going on, and then using research-based methods to develop a plan of action, right? And I think that analogy works really well in education and is a way that we could have a scalable approach for kind of raising the floor across the country for the quality of science education. Giving teachers research-based materials, high-quality instructional materials, that they can then use and adapt to meet the needs of their students, would allow them to focus on getting to know their students, seeing what their strengths are, seeing where they have room for growth, and using the materials they’re given to help those students progress. And I think that is definitely a way where we could have a big impact at a large scale.

Eric Cross (37:39):

Courtney, same question: Magic wand, all power. You can change systems from the elementary perspective. What would you do? I’m assuming part of it’s gonna be changing that 18 to 20 minute time. But even for that to happen, what would you do? What would you change?

Courtney Plumley (37:57):

Well, I don’t know. Like, for it to change, I don’t know the answer to that. But yes, increasing the time would be great. And like Eric was saying, giving teachers— ’cause again, I’m coming in, not enough probably background in science—and then, you know, when I was, when I was teaching, we had one set of textbooks for the entire grade. Six classes, right? Like, share them. But third graders aren’t gonna read textbooks anyway, right? So instead I’m going to the teacher store. I’m pulling things off the shelf. And like, “OK, yeah, sure, I’ll use this.” And nowadays, teachers are going to Teachers Pay Teachers or whatever. Because I didn’t have anything good to use. So like Eric is saying, if I had instructional materials that were good instructional materials that were gonna teach my kids, that they were gonna be engaged, that they weren’t sitting and listening to science, but they were doing science, you know, and I had professional development to actually help me do it? That’s what I think we need to have. And I mean, I know there are some people out there that are working on that, but it’s not a lot. I mean, if you look at Ed Reports, they rate how well-aligned science curriculum are to standards. And there are two right now that have Ed Reports green lights. There’s Amplify and there’s OpenSciEd. You know, so there’s not much out there for teachers to use. And, so it’s hard. It’s hard. Where am I gonna go and get this stuff if it doesn’t exist? And so I’m making it up by myself. Which we already said is not the best use of teachers’ time, when they’ve got so many other demands on their time.

Eric Cross (39:27):

Eric and Courtney, listening to both of your responses, it created a visual in my mind. And Eric, I loved your analogy of…I started thinking of a chef, a welder, and a farmer. And I thought about the chef saying like, “You’re a great chef! Now, can you go farm, and make your own food, so that you can cook it?” Or the welder who has to make his own welding tools and go smelting. You know, making the different rods. I’m not a welder. But you know, all those different parts. Or the farmer who has to build his own tractor and innovate all that stuff. You’re absolutely right, the way you articulated that. And then Courtney, you essentially said, “Give them the tools and then teach them how to use it so they can go and actually be effective with it, because you’re in front of kids doing so many different things.” There’s only so much time in the day, and teachers want to do these things; they want to, but you end up having to triage when you’re asked to. Going back to Eric’s analogy, if you’re in the ER, but you’re also creating the vaccines and you’re also doing the research on which types of vaccines are gonna be the most effective, that’s, that’s a lot to ask. And so, I appreciate both your responses on that. Now, last question, what are you both working on now? This report came out in 2018. What’s, what’s next on the horizon? Actually literally, that’s no pun intended. <laugh> What’s next? <laugh> What’s next for, for you both? What are you working on?

Eric R. Banilower (40:42):

Well, you know, we would love to do another national survey, in a few years. We have to get funding to do it. And you know, that’s always something that takes effort and isn’t a guarantee. We’ve written grants to do these studies in the past, and there’s also the dealing with the reality of the situation. I think a lot of schools, still coming off the tail end of dealing with Covid, are overwhelmed. And we’ve had a hard time, I mentioned before, recruiting schools, and it gets harder every time, just ’cause they have so much on their plate. And I couldn’t see going to a school now and saying, “Hey, one more thing. Do you mind?” So I think we have to kind of wait a little bit for things to settle down before we can do another one of these studies. It just doesn’t seem feasible right now. But we’d love to in the not-too-distant future. Other than that, Courtney and I actually work on some projects together and some projects not together. One of the things that we’re working on together is a study of a fifth grade science curriculum that was developed by Okhee Lee at NYU and her colleagues, that is both aligned with the NGSS and purposely designed to support multilingual learners in developing both their science knowledge and skills as well as their language skills. And we’ve been working with the crew at NYU to study this curriculum and try to figure out, how well it’s working and under what circumstances. So that’s been a really interesting project that’s going on right now.

Courtney Plumley (42:26):

I recently worked on a report with the Carnegie Corporation in New York that actually I think, compliments what we’ve been talking about a lot. It’s about the status of K–12 education in the US—or science education in the US! <Laugh>—and so as part of that report we interviewed like 50 science education experts across the country. We surveyed teachers, people in the university settings, researchers, and everything to kind of get a little bit more update of the state of science education right now. And so a lot of the things we’ve been talking about, we still are talking about with the people in this report four years later. So, work in progress. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (43:09):

And again, going back to 1977, based on what Eric was saying earlier, we’re looking at these large systems, these systemic changes don’t happen overnight.

Eric R. Banilower (43:20):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (43:21):

It’s very slow-moving.

Eric R. Banilower (43:22):

That’s right. I would say there is progress. I think we’ve learned a lot. We are getting better. Are we there yet? No, we’re not happy with where we are. But I think, you know, I think it’s important to be hopeful about the direction things are going in.

Eric Cross (43:37):

Well-said. I agree. Courtney. Eric, thank you so much for unpacking that report that speaks to, that validates what so many teachers across the country are experiencing. And thank you for your advocacy for high-quality science education and your passion for supporting teachers and being that voice from a data-driven perspective of what teachers experience and then advocating for solutions for them. It’s super-encouraging for me, and I know it’s gonna be really encouraging for a lot of our listeners. So thank you.

Eric R. Banilower (44:10):

Thank you for having us.

Courtney Plumley (44:12):

Yeah. Thank you, Eric.

Eric Cross (44:15):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Eric Banilower, Vice President of Horizon Research, and Courtney Plumley, Senior Researcher at Horizon Research. For much more, check out the show notes for a link to the 2018 National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education. And please remember to subscribe to Science Connections wherever you get podcasts, so that you’re not missing any of the upcoming episodes in Season three. Next time on the show, we’re gonna start laying out the road map for using science more effectively. And we’ll start by looking at the how and the why of integrating literacy instruction.

Susan Gomez Zwiep (44:49):

When we look at Science First and build language development around it, the experience tends to be more authentic and organic.

Eric Cross (44:58):

That’s next time on Science Connections: The Podcast. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Eric R. Banilower says about science

“Our data is showing us places where the system needs to provide teachers and their students the opportunities to do great things.”

– Eric R. Banilower

Vice President of Horizon Research, Inc.

Meet the guests

Eric R. Banilower is a Vice President at Horizon Research, Inc. (HRI), and has worked in education for over 30 years. Eric was previously a high school physics and physical science teacher before he joined HRI in 1997, where he has worked on a number of research and evaluation projects. Most recently, he has been the Principal Investigator of the 2012 and 2018 iterations of the National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education, a nationally representative survey focusing on the status of the K–12 STEM education system.

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Courtney Plumley is a Senior Researcher at Horizon Research, Inc. She began her career in education as an elementary school teacher before starting at HRI in 2009. In her time at HRI she has worked on many K-12 STEM research and evaluation projects. Most recently, Ms. Plumley has worked with Carnegie Corporation of New York on mapping the landscape of K-12 science education in the US and is managing the field test for the OpenSciEd elementary materials.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S3-03: Instructional strategies for integrating science and literacy

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We’re continuing our investigations around science and literacy with Doug Fisher, Ph.D., professor and chair of educational leadership at San Diego State University. We talk about the importance of integrating science and literacy, as well as practical guidance for teachers who want to unite the two disciplines in their own classrooms.

Listen as we discuss how science and literacy can be powerful allies and specific strategy areas to focus on when integrating the two disciplines. And don’t forget to grab your Science Connections study guide to track your learning and find additional resources!

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Douglas Fisher (00:00):

It’s not that you have to become a reading specialist to integrate literacy into science. It’s how our brains work.

Eric Cross (00:10):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. This season, we’re making the case for our favorite underdog, which of course is science. Each episode we’re showing how science can be better utilized in the classroom, and making the case for why it’s so important to do so. In our last episode, we examined the evidence showing that science and English instruction can support each other. And now on this episode, we want to give you some more strategies for really making that a reality in your own home or classroom or community. So to help me, I’m joined on this episode by Dr. Douglas Fisher, Professor and Chair of Educational Leadership at San Diego State University. Dr. Fisher is actually someone who has conducted literacy training at my own school, so I’m excited to be able to share some of his wisdom with all of you. Oh, and just a heads up, Dr. Fisher dropped some gems about the ways teachers can integrate literacy and science in their classrooms. So you may want to have a notepad. Ready. And now here’s my conversation with Dr. Douglas Fisher.

Eric Cross (01:12):

Well, Doug, thank you for your time and for being willing to come and talk about literacy and science. I know you’re busy, all over the place, and so I was super-excited that we were able to lock you in and talk about this. And, on this episode, we’re gonna talk about the ways that science and literacy can support each other. And one of the reasons why I’m really excited for you is because you said some really key things for me as a science teacher, when you talked about literacy and supporting students. That just resonated so deeply in me. And I was like, “I need more Doug!” Because we’re on that same frequency. And I know it’s a subject that you’ve spent a lot of time writing about. So can you tell us a little bit about how this became an area of interest or a passion for you? Just literacy, and all of the work that you’ve put into it?

Douglas Fisher (01:54):

Yeah. So I’ve wanted to be a teacher for a really long time. And I went to San Diego State as an undergraduate, and I was taking English class and we were assigned topics. You know, like, you’ll do an assignment, you’ll write a paper for this English class. And I got the topic “illiteracy,” and I was a freshman at San Diego State reading all of these things about adults who don’t read very well or not at all. And I ended up writing my very first college essay on illiteracy — at the time, you know, called illiteracy, at the time. And so I got super interested in this. And so as I moved through college and into my teaching career, literacy became a really important thing for me to think about, because it’s the gatekeeper. You know, you can be taken advantage of, if you’re not very literate. People can use vocabulary against you, if you’re not very literate. We know that people who have higher levels of literacy have better health outcomes. They have better lifespans, longer lifespans. I mean, there’s just — literacy impacts so much more than “Are you reading your fourth-grade textbook?” It really has lifelong implications.

Eric Cross (03:01):

That part that you said about being taken advantage of … I just got a flyer in the mail yesterday. It was one of these mailers that looked like it was an authentic debt-reduction type of thing, but it was really just like a marketing email. If you read the fine print at the very bottom, it had all of this jargon about “This is a paid, you know, for-profit company.” But when you look at it, it had official stamps all over it. And I could imagine if someone’s receiving that, that probably fools a lot of people. Is that kinda like what you’re talking about, like being taken advantage of?

Douglas Fisher (03:28):

Yes. I had a student turn 18, got a letter from a “credit card company” that was offering her daily compounding interest. And if you don’t know what that means — at 23 percent! — if you dunno what that means, you are gonna be a victim. Literacy really influences a lot of our life. It’s also how our brain works. We have a language-based system in our brain. We read, write, speak, listen, and view. And the things we learn, we learn through speaking, reading, writing, listening, and viewing. From what we know, we are the only species that has an external storage mechanism. Like, we have the ability to store complex information outside of our body, in the form of notes. We can type them. We can write them. And we can then go back and retrieve that information, that complex orthographic information later. And it means the same thing. We can say we have a storage system and we’ve been doing this for a really long time. Way back to, you know, hieroglyphics and messages on cave walls. And throughout the ages of humans learning, how to store information that they can re-access again later. That’s become a super-complicated system. It’s how computers operate. And we send messages to each other and we text each other and we write things down, and we’re really good at putting ideas, information out there. Now, if it’s just speaking and listening, then we can forget it. We can say, “No, you said this,” or “I said that.” But when it’s written, and it’s print literacy, you know, it’s the orthographics there, you can go back to the same message and over and over again. Now, you might change the interpretation of it, but the message is still there.

Eric Cross (05:16):

Right. And that is such a key element, at least of modern education, is this written element of it. It’s what many schools live and die by. They’re quantitatively and qualitatively analyzed by it. It’s public. They can see it. And so there’s this heavy emphasis. And why do you think science and literacy can be powerful allies together?

Douglas Fisher (05:38):

Awesome. Well, it’s hard to learn science if you’re not literate.

Eric Cross (05:42):

This is true.

Douglas Fisher (05:42):

But that’s a one-way direction. And yes, science teachers and scientists do a lot of reading, writing, speaking, and listening and viewing. They use the five literacy processes all the time. When we interview scientists, they spend a lot of their time reading the work of other scientists and writing their findings, writing grant proposals, presenting at conferences, you know. So a huge part of the work of a scientist is not just at a bench conducting experiments. But even if you’re conducting experiments, you’re using your literacy processes to think about what you’re seeing in your experiment. So that’s a one-way direction. And I do think literacy has an influence on science. But since science goes the other way, it influences literacy. As you learn more and you understand more about the world, your background knowledge grows, your vocabulary grows, you become more literate in those different areas. And how you think. So if I’m learning about life science; I’m learning how the world works in a more, biologic physical world. And that knowledge helps me think about when I’m reading a novel, and there’s an appeal to some science knowledge or a concept that gets played with, you know, perhaps time-space continuums … well, if I don’t have the science knowledge of how I think the world works, it’s hard for me to understand what this author is doing. So it does go both ways. They feed each other. And the more literate we become, the more complex science information we can understand. ‘Cause our background knowledge and our vocabulary influence how much we understand about what we read. And as we access more complex science information, it starts to change the way we think about other things in our world.

Eric Cross (07:23):

There was a couple of things that you said in that, but one of the first things that kind of perked my ears is when you said grant proposals. Because I have friends that are scientists — and this is one of the things that when I was in school, they don’t talk about — but how much of their research is reliant upon getting funding —

Douglas Fisher (07:37):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Eric Cross (07:38):

— which you don’t think about if you’re becoming a chemist or a physicist or a biologist or working in the field, is that that funding, coming from the NSF or anywhere else. And sometimes students ask in class like, “Why am I writing so much? Like, I want to go into science!” Or “I wanna do this!” And this is a real-life example of how the writing could actually apply, in addition to all of the things of collecting data and conclusions and results. But that grant proposal thing just really perked my ears, yeah.

Douglas Fisher (08:01):

And if you can’t write a grant proposal, your ideas and experiments are not gonna get funded. And if you can’t write a strong proposal, that compellingly convinces your readers to fund you, you’re not gonna get funded. But then once you get the grant, you have to write publications. You have to share your work with other people. Make PowerPoint presentations and write journal articles or books or whatever. So it’s a cycle that literacy influences the things we do, including the things we do in science.

Eric Cross (08:31):

Now to get in maybe some data, if you were trying to convince someone that like this happy marriage can exist, what would be like your number one piece of evidence to support this, this back and forth of supporting each other?

Douglas Fisher (08:44):

Awesome. So the quote I’ll often say — and this is from studies from more than two decades ago now — but in general, in high school science, students are introduced to 3000 unfamiliar words, 3000. Each year! Because there are words that are used in a scientific way that are used commonly in other places. And there are discipline-specific words. So 3000 words a year in high school science. The Spanish 1 textbook only has 1500 words in it. So science teachers have double the academic-language vocabulary demand that a typical introductory world-language class has. So just the vocabulary alone should say to us, literacy is gonna be important if you’re gonna learn science. And if you don’t understand these technical words, and you don’t understand the way science uses this particular word in this particular way… . When you say the word “process,” it means something very specific In science. “Division” — cellular division is not the way we think about it in mathematics; there’s a similar concept, but cellular division is different than dividing numbers. And those are words that get used in multiple areas. Then you have all these technical terms that you have to be able to use, to understand the concepts. To share the concepts. To talk to other people. Whether you’re in, you know, fifth grade and talking science, or you’re a university professor, there’s a shared language, appropriate for our grade level, that we have shared meanings of.

Eric Cross (10:22):

And we’re essentially … what I’m hearing you say is … most of the people that are listening to this are science teachers. We’re we’re also language teachers. In a sense.

Douglas Fisher (10:29):

So my frustration is when people say, “Every teacher’s a teacher of reading.” And I don’t like that. I’ve written against that phrase. I don’t think all teachers are teachers of reading, any more than all teachers are teachers of chemistry. Or all teachers are teachers of algebra. But what I will say is the human brain learns through language. And all of us — every teacher that I’ve ever met understands that language is important in my class. If my students don’t have strong listening skills and speaking skills; reading, writing, and viewing skills; I’m gonna have a hard time getting them to learn things. If I can help them grow their speaking, listening, reading, writing, and viewing in my content area, I’m gonna do a service for my learning of my subject and also their more broad literacy development.

Eric Cross (11:16):

  1. So, at a high level, what does it look like to integrate science and literacy? We’ve done education for the last, what, hundred years?

Douglas Fisher (11:24):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Eric Cross (11:25):

—kind of pretty similarly, right? Kind of siloed way. What does this look like at the 30,000-foot level? You’re a professor, department chair. Run schools. Speak everywhere. Like, when you think about this from that high level, what does it look like?

Douglas Fisher (11:39):

A high level? Every time I meet with students in a science class, you know, biology or fifth grade or whatever? They should be reading, they should be writing, they should be speaking and listening. Every class. So what print do you want them to access? And it can be a primary source document, it can be an article, it can be from a textbook. Are they reading something? Are they writing to you? Because writing is thinking. If they are writing, they are thinking. As soon as their brain goes somewhere else, they stop writing. The pen won’t move or the fingers don’t type. And then speaking and listening, of course, is the dynamic of our classes. So every day we should see some amount of reading, writing, speaking, and listening, viewing in our classes. That’s at a high level. There are some generic things that seem to work across the literacy. So, learning how to take notes. Focusing on vocabulary. Using graphic organizers. These are generic things that as educators we can use in our classes. Then there’s more specialized things. So, scientists and science teachers think differently than historians and literary critics and art critics. So scientists, if you look at the disciplinary literacy work, there’s a whole body of research where they interview and study high-end experts in their field: chemistry, physics, biology, et cetera. And there are some characteristics that were more disciplined, specific. Scientists like cause and effect relationships. They look for them when they’re reading. They like sourcing information. “Where this come from?” “What’s the history of this idea?” Scientists have a long view in terms of time. Historians have a shorter view of time. English teachers have even shorter view of time. Scientists tend to think in long periods of time. And so all of that influences how a scientist reads and how we should apprentice young people after they get past the generic “I know how to take notes. I know how to study my vocabulary. I know how to do summary writing for my teacher in my notebooks and things,” there’s some generic tools. Once we get past those, we need to be looking at specifically how do people in science use literacy.

Eric Cross (13:52):

I’ve never had my thought process of reading deconstructed just now, but we just described how scientists read. I was like, “Yeah, that’s pretty much how I read, right there.” I also like how you said how we should apprentice young people. And I feel like you as the literacy guy, you chose that word very specifically, as far as apprenticing young people. That is a view, I think, that’s really important to hold. ‘Cause that’s what we’re doing essentially … is, if we’re doing what we should be doing, we are apprenticing these young people.

Douglas Fisher (14:18):

Yes.

Eric Cross (14:18):

And helping them develop. Now, let’s imagine there’s a listener out there and they’re interested in getting better at integrating science and literacy instruction. They want to start somewhere. Before we dive in, do you have any initial words of encouragement for the person who’s like, “Everything is like a priority right now,” in their classroom or in their world?

Douglas Fisher (14:37):

Yeah. So I’ll talk about elementary for just a moment. When we’re reading informational texts in our literacy block, we should be reading information that is aligned to what kids need to learn in science and history in, in that grade level. Why are we reading things that are gonna be in conflict with what they’re gonna learn in science later that day in fourth grade, for example? So when we look at our standards, our expectations, what is it that third graders need to know in history, science, mathematics, language arts? And when we’re reading text and we’re learning to apply our reading strategies during our literacy block, why aren’t we reading topics that build our background knowledge for our science time? So we’re seeing some synergy there. We should be looking at life cycles in grades that are appropriate for life cycles and knowing there’s more to life cycles than the frog and the plant or the seed. There are all kinds of life cycles. And we call ’em life cycles for a reason. That’s a general concept. Now in science, we’re looking at this particular lifecycle right now. And so that’s a high level. If we could get more connection to the content standards during our literacy blocks, it would be very good. When we talk about the time at which we call “science” in the day, in more of the K–8 continuum, the science needs to include some primary source documents. Some real things that students are reading. Read about a scientist; read about a scientist’s discovery; read about what they discovered. So that we’re building our background knowledge. So when we go to do things, activities, labs, simulations, we have background knowledge and we understand what we’re experiencing. It can’t be like—I watched this awesome lesson on lenses and the teacher had all these different lenses in the room and the students came in and they were brand new. They don’t know anything. They were picking ’em up. They’re exploring them. They’re trying to figure out, and they’re trying to come up with theories about what this is and how it works. And then the teacher gave them a reading, a short reading, on refraction of light. And they read this thing. And the clarity that they had about what these lenses must do, well! All of a sudden they’re putting them up to the lights! They’re asking if they can go get the lights out of the storage unit! ‘Cause there’s — and they’re shining different lights through the lenses to see what happens to the light. Because that little bit of reading turned some focus on for the students. And it allowed them to take what I’m thinking about, what I’m trying to figure out, how this thing works in another direction. That’s the power of using literacy in our classes.

Eric Cross (17:20):

And what I’m hearing essentially is transfer across disciplines, across content areas, ultimately. And in an elementary school classroom, would it be fair to say, probably the teacher has more autonomy to be able to do that, since they’re teaching all the subjects? But secondary, logistically, planning and those types of things … from what you’ve seen, is it fair to say this kind of needs to be like a top-down, full vertical alignment, to teach like this?

Douglas Fisher (17:45):

I think that would be awesome to do that. But if I’m a sixth grade English Language Arts teacher and I’m working with my sixth grade science teacher, the conversation should be, “What units are you teaching?” Because I’m choosing informational text. My job is to teach them how to find central ideas. My job is to teach them how to find the details in the text. My job is to have them make a claim and support that claim with evidence. The stuff I use is generic. Yes, we do read some literature and some narratives, but we also read about 50% of the text in English around informational text. So if I can help you and accomplish my standards as well, fantastic. So let’s have this conversation and say, “Oh, this is what you’re teaching in science in the next three weeks? I’m gonna choose some texts and we’re gonna analyze ’em for central idea. We’re gonna analyze ’em for details. We’re gonna, for mood or tone or whatever that we’re teaching. And by the way, I’m building background knowledge. So when they come to you, they know some stuff about what you’re going to be teaching next.” So I don’t think it’s impossible to say teams of teachers could come together and say, “What do we believe that our students need to know and learn and be able to do? And then how do we choose things that are gonna help them accomplish exactly that?”

Eric Cross (19:01):

And that’s empowering. Because that’s one thing that we can control maybe is this East-West, peer-to-peer, different content areas. A system may not be able to change as quickly, but I can definitely go talk to my English team or math team and check in and kind of see, “Hey, where do we have overlap in that?” And I know the times that I’ve accidentally had overlap with the teams, it’s super-exciting. And the students have been more bought in! Because it’s like, we’ve done something on the human microbiome and we’ve talked about genetics and all these different things, and then when they read The Giver, or they read some book about genetics, they have all this knowledge. And they’re excited. And they talk about colorblindness or they come to my class and they’re like, “Hey, we read about this!” It’s almost like they saw a magic trick, the fact that these things linked up. And the engagement has been so much higher when it’s the same content in different classes, but through different lenses. At least, that’s what I’ve seen in my years of teaching.

Douglas Fisher (19:54):

I saw a lesson on space junk that was so cool. Middle-school students learning space junk. And the history teacher had a part of it, science teacher had a part of it, English Language Arts teacher had a part of it. And these students, I mean, you watch them look up all the time, ’cause there’s space junk up there. Where’d it come from? Why is it there? What are the politics of this? How do we clean it up? I mean, it was just so interesting to watch them when the teachers came together. And the teachers met their standards in this couple-week-long space-junk exploration. Investigation was met. Politics was met. All these different things. Economy. You know, how much does it cost to clean up this problem? So there’s really cool opportunities when teachers come together and realize we can work together and improve the literacy and learning of our students.

Eric Cross (20:50):

Absolutely. So before this recording, we picked your brain a bit. And I know that there were three specific strategy areas that you wanted to touch on. And one of those — which is kind of coming back to the 3000-words language teachers — was vocabulary. So what are the opportunities that you see, as far as the way of educators to approach vocabulary? Because, you know, there’s a lot. We got a lot of it. The 3000 words.

Douglas Fisher (21:14):

Yeah. There’s a lot of it. So the worry is, we make a vocabulary list and have students look up the words in definitional kinds of things. That’s not really gonna help. Students need to be using the words. They need to be using the words in their conversations, in their writing, in how they think about your content in science. So vocabulary is a huge predictor of whether or not you understand things. Vocabulary is also a pretty good predictor if you can read on grade level. So when we think about vocabulary, there’s something called word solving. You show students a piece of text and you’re reading it, you’re sharing your thinking, and you say, “Oh, here’s a context clue!” Or “I know this prefix or suffix or root!” And in science, a lot of the words are prefixed, suffixed, or root words. We tend to add things together with a lot of prefixes and suffixes and have roots and bases in science. So we can help students think about, “Oh, what does geo- mean? We already know what geo- means here. It means the same thing in this word. Let’s apply that knowledge.” So word solving is part of it, showing students how we think about words that we might not know. The second is more direct instruction of vocabulary. As students encounter the words, we work on what it means, how we say it. We practice it a few times. The process is called orthographic mapping. It’s kind of a scientific idea here. But you have the sound and the recognition of by-the-word, by sight, and what it means. And your brain starts to automatically recognize that word in the future. So I don’t have to slow down, disrupt my fluency, and try to figure out what the word is saying. ‘Cause I’ve seen it enough. I’ve heard it pronounced enough, I’ve pronounced it enough, and I know what it means. So teachers should be saying, “What words in sixth grade science, what words in third grade science, do my students really need to know?” And I’m gonna have them encounter those words over and over. I’m gonna have them use the words. I’m gonna have them see the words. I’m gonna have them say the words. I’m gonna say the word and we’re gonna be over and over with these terms, so that students incorporate them into their normal view of, “These are the things I know about the world.” By the way, when they go to read that next thing, and they understand “geology,” you know, for sixth graders, for example, they know how to say it. They don’t stumble on it. And it activates a whole bunch of memories in their brains. “This is what geology is.” There are branches of geology, there’s physical geology, there’s all this thinking that activates as they read.

Eric Cross (23:35):

There was a practice that I participated in and am trying to incorporate — I don’t know what the name of it is. But essentially what happened was we were dissecting a flower. And the instructor had us name parts of the flower. But we got to come up with our own names for it.

Douglas Fisher (23:49):

Ah.

Eric Cross (23:50):

So, for instance, the stamen we call “the fuzzy Cheeto.” And we all used our own words and then everything was legitimized. And so we went through and learned the whole activity using our own vocab words. But then, in the end, after we presented and talked about it, then the words, the actual academic language was attached to our word. And we were able to say, “OK, the fuzzy Cheeto is the stamen,” and this, this, this, and this. But it was such an interesting practice, because it kind of legitimized all of our definitions. But we weren’t stumbling on these long Latin terms and things like that. Is there a name for that? Or. … ?

Douglas Fisher (24:29):

Yes. I don’t know the name for that. I think it’s really smart. So here’s what I would say about that, is: we don’t learn words, we learn concepts. Words are labels for our concepts. So what that teacher did for you was allow you to develop concept, a concept knowledge. “There’s a part of this plant, it goes like this, we’re gonna call it fuzzy Cheeto. Now I have this concept. And look, it occurred in all these plants. And those people called it that and that other group called it that. We called it a fuzzy Cheeto. Here’s the part of it.” And then the concept is in your brains. And the teacher said, “It’s really called stamen.” And it’s an instant transfer, because you already had the concept. What we often see is students are trying to learn a really hard academic word and the concept for the word at the same time. And so it slows down the whole process. And there’s higher levels of forgetting. Because human beings, we don’t learn words; we learn concepts. If you don’t have the concept, if I gave you a word out of the blue that you’ve never seen, never heard, and a week from now I asked you to remember it, you probably would not, because it didn’t register. It wasn’t part of your schema. You didn’t have a way to organize the information. You don’t have a concept. So that teacher? It’s a great idea. Got you to develop concept knowledge. And then said, “Here’s a real label for it: What some other people called it when they had the chance to come up with their own names.”

Eric Cross (25:50):

Shout out to my teacher, who was—

Douglas Fisher (25:51):

Right.

Eric Cross (25:52):

It was learned then. It was a great practice. And the fact that you’re right, like, I just mean from my own personal experience, I agree that learning concepts versus complicated words. And it’s interesting that you said higher levels of forgetfulness, you know. And you often hear that complaint about it: “Students forget! Students forget!” But this complex topic and this complex word that’s new to me, and I have to remember both of those things.

Douglas Fisher (26:12):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (26:13):

And the other neat thing that it did, is it actually honored the background and like the founts of knowledge of all the different groups in the classroom. You just said something about “this group called it this and this group called it this,” and so by letting different groups share all of those names, now we’re starting to build these kind of interesting connections. That’s at least what I remember experiencing. And so this, even this practice of this approach is very layered, beyond just kind of generating new knowledge of things. So I appreciate that aspect of it. Now another area that you mentioned was complex text.

Douglas Fisher (26:41):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (26:42):

And how we can get students into complex text. So what can we do there?

Douglas Fisher (26:46):

I think science is an ideal place to get students reading things that are hard for them. And I do believe that some parts of school should be a struggle. Not all day, every day. But there should be doses of struggle, which are good for our brains. And these complex pieces of texts that don’t give up their meanings easily allow students to go back and reread the text and maybe mark the text and talk to peers about the text and answer questions with their groups. And the whole point of complex text is to say, “We persevere through it. We may not understand it fully on our first read. But we go back and we might underline, we might highlight. We might write some margin notes. Our teacher might say, ‘What did this author mean here?’ And we go back and look at that part and we take it apart. What do we think about that? And we talk to each other. It’s showing that when we read things, we work to understand. We work through our thinking, often in the presence of other people. And our understanding grows as we go into the text over and over and over again.” So I said geology earlier. There’s about a two-page article on “what is geology” that sixth graders often read. And some kids find it super boring. It’s a once-read, “OK, geology, I don’t really understand it. There’s a bunch of words in here that I don’t understand.” But if you go back to it a few times and you start taking apart, “What are the branches of geology? Oh, I’m gonna go reread that.” How are these two branches related to each other?” “What are the subtypes of each branch of geology?” “How do geologists do their work?” You start asking questions where students are going back into the text. You spend a little bit of time. Now, the introduction to geology, the students know so much more. So whatever you do next— video experiments, whatever—they have a frame of reference, because of that deep, complex read. It’s probably better than simply telling them, “Here’s the information.”

Eric Cross (28:45):

Right. And I even feel like as an educator, when I reflect on my own learning in the classroom, and then looking at it through the perspective of an educator <laugh>, you find this difference between how you were taught and then what the data says good teaching is.

Douglas Fisher (28:59):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Eric Cross (29:00):

It’s so easy to slide back into how you were taught!

Douglas Fisher (29:02):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (29:02):

Even though, you know, you mentally assent to, “This is the best way. This is the data shows.” And you find yourself kind of sliding back at times.

Douglas Fisher (29:10):

Yep. And there’s good evidence to support what you just said, that most people teach the way they experienced school. And it is very hard to change that. And people have studied this. And it’s very hard to change that. Because it worked for us. And we have an n of 1, and it worked for us. Now, remember, there were a whole bunch of other kids in the class that it may not have worked for. And we chose to be in school the rest of our lives, and some of your peers did not choose to be in school the rest of their lives. In fact, some of them hated school and found no redeeming qualities of their experience. So just because it worked for us in a case of one, n of 1, doesn’t mean it worked for all of the kids, or even the majority of them.

Eric Cross (29:57):

Very well said. It’s that, what is that, the survivor bias? Survivorship bias? Where you were the one that made it. But you don’t think about all the other folks. ‘Cause we’re thinking about ourselves.

Douglas Fisher (30:05):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (30:06):

Great case for empathy too, is thinking about the people left and right. Because my friends are like, “I hated science.” And I say, “Who hurt you? Like, what did they do? It’s so amazing, so much fun!”

Douglas Fisher (30:16):

“What happened to you? Science is the coolest. Right? It’s so amazing!”

Eric Cross (30:21):

But I also had a unique experience in seventh grade with my teacher who did some of these things, and made it accessible for so many of us, in opening opportunities that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. But you’re absolutely right. That was my story. That wasn’t the story of everybody that was around me. And I think that’s really important. Now, I know this is also a big one for you, but I wanna talk about writing. What are the opportunities that you see in terms of writing specifically?

Douglas Fisher (30:51):

So would love it if science teachers had short and longer writing tasks in the science time. Of course, you can integrate some of the science writing, the longer ones, in the English language arts time, especially if you’re the elementary teacher and you can have control of the whole day. But I said this earlier; I’ll say it again. Writing is thinking. While you are writing, there’s nothing else you can do but think about what you are writing. Your brain cannot do something else. So if a science teacher wants to know, do their students really understand the concepts? Have them write. Now some of the shorter ones, I like something called “given word” or “generative sentences”: “I’m gonna give you a word: CELL. C-e-l-l. We’re in science. I want you to write the word ‘cell,’ c-e-l-l, in the third position of a sentence. So it’s gonna go word, word, cell, and then more words.” You could also say, “I want the sentence longer than seven words,” or whatever. But the key is, I’m telling you where I want the word. You will know instantly if your students have a sense of what the word “cell” means in the context of science. If they write “my cell phone,” they don’t get it. If they write about spreadsheet cells or jail cells or whatever, they didn’t get it. But if they talk to you about plant cells and animal cells and the components of those cells, and then once they have that sentence down, you can say to them, “Now write three or four more sentences that connect to that sentence.” It’s super simple. So whatever concepts you’re teaching, put ’em in a specific position. Now you don’t have to only put it in the third position. You can say the first position, the fifth position, the fourth position. But it forces them to think about what they know about the word and then how to construct a sentence for you. That’s a very simple way to get some writing from your students that helps you think about what they understand. Other kinds of writing, you can have quick writes, you can have exit-slip writes. There’s something in the research space called the muddiest part, where halfway through the lesson you have them write so far what has been the least understood or the most confusing part of this lesson. And they do a quick write, right there, at the muddiest part. And as a teacher, you flip through these and you start to say, “Oh, these are the points that are confusing to my students.” So if 80% of them all have the same thing, I gotta reteach that. If these five got, “This is the muddiest part,” If these five thought, “This is the muddiest part,” these seven, “I thought this was the muddiest part,” what do I need to do? Because it’s gonna be hard to move forward if this is their area of confusion. There are also all kinds of writing prompts that have a little bit longer. My favorite one is RAFT. What’s your Role? Who’s your Audience? What’s the Format? And what’s the Topic we’re writing about? Super flexible writing prompt. When you teach something, we don’t want students to only think they write to their teacher. So your role is an atom. You are writing to the other atoms. What do you wanna write about? What’s the topic? What’s the format of it? Is it a love letter? Is it a text message? Is it … so we, we mix it up with students in saying, how do they show some knowledge through a prompt that we give them? And then of course, longer pieces as they get older. More opinion pieces through fifth grade. More claims and arguments starting in sixth grade. So that they’re starting to see, “I have to use the evidence from things I’ve learned, read, listened to, watched, and construct something: an opinion, an argument where I back it up with reasons or evidence.” And those longer pieces, you know, less frequently. The shorter pieces, pretty regularly. So the teacher sees the thinking of the students.

Eric Cross (34:29):

When you were speaking about these really creative writing prompts, there were specific students coming into mind, that were coming into mind … they’re, they’re great science students, but they also have this really strong artsy side drawing, creative writing, and things like that. And when you said something about atoms talking to each other, it elicited, in my brain, certain students that would really love this aspect of creativity in the sciences. And it’s not how we’re typically trained as science teachers, to kind of incorporate this, like you said. A book of props. But I’m imagining, like, as a science teacher, if I took this, this would be a great way to reach more students to be able to show what they know, in a way that might resonate with their own intrinsic “Oh, I get to write creatively!” So I was kind of writing furiously as you were sharing all that information there.

Douglas Fisher (35:12):

So here, I’ll give you another example for elementary people. Again, with RAFT. There’s a book called Water Dance. It’s a pretty popular book for elementary teachers. It’s really about the life cycle of water. For example, you are a single drop of water. You are writing to the land. The format is a letter. And you’re explaining your journey. Now, if they can do this, they’re essentially explaining to you the cycle of water. But you got it in a way that people are now, “Oh, I’m a drop of water. So it’s me. My perspective. Where do I go from? Where do I start?” Because you can start anywhere in the cycle, right? My drop could have started in the clouds. My drop could have started in the ground. My drop could have started in the lake. But it has to show you the journey. So there are many ways of showing you the right answers.

Eric Cross (36:02):

And that’s using the RAFT protocol.

Douglas Fisher (36:04):

That’s RAFT: Role, Audience, Format, Topic. It’s been around 20 or 30 years.

Eric Cross (36:09):

You just gave the name to something a teacher shared in our podcast community, Science Connections: The Community, on Facebook. Teacher shared a Google slide deck and on it were just three slides. And the role that the student had to have is they had to show, then tell, the story of a journey of a piece of salmon being eaten, a piece of starch from pasta being eaten, and then an air molecule in a child’s bedroom. And they had to give the path of travel and the experience from the mouth and then breaking down into protein and all those kinds of things. And this teacher shared it and I wish I knew the teacher’s name because I wanna give ’em credit, but they shared it. And so I used it with my students and then had ’em read aloud their stories and dramatize it. And they were so into it!

Douglas Fisher (36:49):

So cool.

Eric Cross (36:50):

But through it, I was able to see that they understood different parts of the body. They understood cell respiration. The whole thing. And it was fun! To watch them get so into this creative writing. And now I know the name of it. That’s been 30 years they were using RAFT. So you just talked a bit about complex texts and writing. And before we go, I wanted to circle back to something that you said, because I think it’s important, and if you could elaborate on it a little bit, about the value of struggle. Can you talk more about that?

Douglas Fisher (37:21):

Sure. I do believe in a lot of the U.S. we’re in an anti-struggle era of education. And it predates Covid. I think it made it worse during Covid. We front load too much. We pre-teach too much. We reduce struggle. We quote, “over-differentiate” for students. And there’s value in struggle. The phrase, “productive struggle” — if you haven’t heard it, Google productive struggle — it’s an interesting concept, that we actually learn more when we engage in this productive struggle. Now, productive struggle originally came from the math world, and it was this idea that it’s worth struggling through things to learn from it, that you’re likely to get it wrong, and then there was productive success. And there are times when we want students to experience success and we make sure we put things in place for productive success. But there are times where we want them to struggle through a concept. ‘Cause it feels pretty amazing when you get on the other side, when you know you struggled and you get to the other side. If you think about the things, listeners, think about the things in your life where you struggled through it and you are most proud of what you accomplished. I want students to have that. I don’t wanna eliminate scaffolding, eliminate differentiation. But I do want some regular doses of struggle. So if you look at the scaffolding, we have a couple choices. We have front-end scaffolds, distributed scaffolds, and back-end scaffolds. Right now we mostly use front-end scaffolds: We pre-teach, we tell students words in advance, that kind of stuff. But what if we refrained from only using front-end scaffolds, and we use more distributed scaffolds, when they encounter. So there’s a difference between “just in case” and “just in time” support for students. So we tend to plan on the “in advance, here are all the things we’re gonna do to remove the struggle before students encounter the struggle.” What if instead we said, “Let them encounter some struggle. Here’s the supports we’re gonna provide. We’re gonna watch; we’re gonna remove those scaffolds, and allow them to have an experience of success, where they realize, ‘I did it. I got it.’” Every science teacher I’ve ever worked with, when they do an experiment or a lab or simulation, they are looking for productive struggle. They don’t tell the answers in advance. They don’t tell if the answers are right. That’s your data. What does your data tell you? I mean, this is what you do. But then the other part of your day when you move into, like, reading, you don’t do that. You fall into the trap of removing struggle. And so allow them to grapple with ideas. Allow them to wonder what words mean. Allow them to say, “I’m not getting this, teacher! It’s really frustrating!” And you say, “Yeah, this is really hard. This is why we’re doing it at school. ‘Cause it’s really hard. If it was easy, I’d have you do it at home. But we’re doing it here, ’cause it’s really hard and it’s OK not to get it at first.” And create a place where errors are seen as opportunities to learn, and struggling through ideas and clarifying your own thinking and arguing with other people to reach an agreement or reach a place where we agree to disagree is part of the power of learning.

Eric Cross (40:38):

There’s a teacher, who I took this from. My master teacher when I was student teaching. And she said that there’s no such thing as failure in science, just data. And I took that same mantra. And I resonate with what you said about how science teachers, all of us, hold onto that productive struggle, because it’s part of being a scientist. It’s part of the experiments. That genuine “aha” moment. Or it didn’t work out? That’s great! That’s totally fine! Let’s write about it and let’s take photos and let’s publish it and let’s be scientists. That’s totally true. As we wrap up, Dr. Fisher, is there any final message that you have to listeners about bringing science and literacy together? I know you speak everywhere, but for everyone that’s listening, if you can put out your encouragement or message or suggestion … you’ve given so many great tips and practical applications. But, any final thoughts on the subject?

Douglas Fisher (41:32):

I think many science teachers are intimidated because they think they have to be reading teachers. And there’s a knowledge base to reading. And some teachers are reading teachers and science teachers, and I don’t wanna dismiss that. But it’s not that you have to become a reading specialist to integrate literacy into science. It’s how our brains work. And so as you think about the way in which you are learning and the ways in which you want your students to learn, what role does language play? What role does speaking, listening, reading, writing, viewing, play in your class? And then provide opportunities for students to do those five things each time you meet with them.

Eric Cross (42:12):

Dr. Fisher, thank you so much for being here and for your encouragement, and sharing your wisdom and experience. And then personally serving my city, here in San Diego, and my students, when they make it to your high school and ultimately the alma mater of San Diego State University.

Douglas Fisher (42:30):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (42:31):

Yeah. We really, really appreciate you in serving all kids and lifting the bar and making things more equitable for all students. And encouraging teachers. So thank you.

Douglas Fisher (42:39):

Thank you very much.

Eric Cross (42:42):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Douglas Fisher, Professor and Chair of Educational Leadership at San Diego State University. Check out the show notes for links to some of Doug’s work, including the book he co-authored titled Reading and Writing in Science: Tools to Develop Disciplinary Literacy. Please remember to subscribe to Science Connections so that you can catch every episode in this exciting third season. And while you’re there, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more listeners to find the show. Also, if you haven’t already, please be sure to join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Next time on the show, we’re going to continue exploring the happy marriage between science and literacy instruction.

Speaker  (43:26):

I had this moment of realization I felt a few months ago: I’m like, if I don’t teach them how to use the AI as a tool, as a collaborator, then they’re gonna graduate into a world where they lose out to people who do know how to do that.

Eric Cross (43:39):

That’s next time on Science Connections. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Dr. Douglas Fisher says about science

“There are really cool opportunities when teachers come together and realize we can work together to improve the literacy and learning of all our students.”

– Dr. Doug Fisher

Professor and Chair of Educational Leadership, San Diego State University

Meet the guest

Douglas Fisher, Ph.D., is professor and chair of Educational Leadership at San Diego State University and a leader at Health Sciences High & Middle College having been an early intervention teacher and elementary school educator. He is the recipient of an International Reading Association William S. Grey citation of merit, an Exemplary Leader award from the Conference on English Leadership of NCTE, as well as a Christa McAuliffe award for excellence in teacher education. He has published numerous articles on reading and literacy, differentiated instruction, and curriculum design as well as books, such as The Restorative Practices Playbook, PLC+: Better Decisions and Greater Impact by Design, Building Equity, and Better Learning Through Structured Teaching.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S1-01: The journey from student to SpaceX engineer: Juan Vivas

Illustration of Earth with text about a podcast episode featuring Juan Vivas, discussing the journey from student to SpaceX engineer. Includes a photo of a smiling person in a suit.

In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he talks to supply chain engineer Juan Vivas of SpaceX about his experiences growing up as a Latino in STEM. Juan shares his story of moving to the United States to study engineering and becoming successful in his career as a scientist. Juan openly discusses the experiences that made a difference in his life and the teachers that inspired him along the way. He also shares his experience as an engineer in different fields, as well as what it’s like to work in the supply chain during COVID.

Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Juan Vivas (00:00):

But to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem-solver.

Eric Cross (00:28):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Juan Vivas. Juan is a supply chain engineer for SpaceX. His career in STEM has pivoted from chemical engineering to working on foods like Cinnamon Toast Crunch to his current role at SpaceX, where he’s responsible for his work on Starlink, a technology that uses low-orbit satellites to provide internet access across the world. In this episode, Juan shares his story of how he became an engineer and how a thoughtful teacher used robotics to inspire him. I hope you enjoy this great conversation with Juan Vivas. Juan, thanks for being here.

Juan Vivas (01:14):

Yeah, yeah, of course! Super-excited to be here.

Eric Cross (01:19):

Hey, and starting off, I kind of like to ask your origin story. We were talking earlier about Marvel, and your journey of one working for…what I consider the closest thing that we have to SHIELD in the Marvel stories is SpaceX. Like with my own students, we talk about SpaceX like it’s a fictional thing, and we watch the rocket launches together and we watch the recovery and it’s so cool.

Juan Vivas (01:45):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (01:46):

And so when I knew that we were gonna be able to talk to you, I was excited. Like, I felt like I was a kid.

Juan Vivas (01:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (01:51):

So I’d love to hear your origin story of you ultimately landing at SpaceX. And begin wherever kind of seems most natural to you.

Juan Vivas (01:59):

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I wasn’t one of those kids at from a young age I said “Oh, I’m gonna be an engineer.” Right? “I want to go and build all these things.” Where I grew up, and the social circle that I had, a lot of people were like doctors or lawyers. Just figured, you know, I’ll go to med school and go down the same path that 90% of like everyone else was gonna take. But in high school, I actually got into robotics. And, kind of like I mentioned, I wanted to do med school, that is what I figured I would end up doing. And then I got into robotics in high school. And I think that was what really kind of like changed my perspective of what I wanted to do, because basically these competitions were just—it was full-on driven by students. So we designed, programmed, and manufactured, like, the entire robot itself. And so through that I ended up doing a summer engineering program at the University of Maryland, the summer before going into my senior year in high school. And there we worked on a competition with underwater robots. And so we spent the entire summer, kind of similar scenario, designing a robot, manufacturing it, programming it. And then in the end it was like a competition in the buoyancy tank with different teams. And, you know, I think one thing that was really neat about that experience is that I got to hear Dr. John C. Mathers, who is a Nobel Prize physicist, speak to us in a room with, like, only 10 high school students. And just hearing his experience of where he started and the accomplishment that he’s been able to do, down in the STEM path, was really neat. And that summer was my final decision that I’m “OK, I know I want to be an engineer.” What’s interesting is I ended up choosing chemical engineering, instead of mechanical, which a lot of people, you know, based on all the experience that led me up to be an engineer, they asked me why I didn’t choose mechanical engineering. And I think one of the reasons why I chose chemical engineering is it’s very process-based. So one thing needs to happen, and there’s different inputs to that one step, and that step has an end-to-end reaction to it, right? So certain things need to happen in step one in order for step two to occur. And however the inputs happen in step one, it’s gonna affect the rest of the process. Honestly, very different than what I thought it was really gonna be. But what’s neat about chemical engineering is that it’s one of the most versatile engineering majors that you can have. Chemical engineering, because you work with a lot of process bases. Everything has a process, right? Everything needs to start with step one, and with, you know, step 10, whatever. And it’s all about optimization and improvement along those processes. So you can really take chemical engineering principles and apply ’em to different areas of a career, which is essentially the experience that I had in college. I had three internships with Dow Chemical where I did environmental health and safety, production, and supply-chain improvement. I then did research and development with Clorox. And then I did manufacturing engineering with General Mills. So really different job roles, different aspects, but same methodology applied.

Eric Cross (05:36):

I feel like there’s so much that you just said, <laugh> and I was trying to always, “I wanna ask him about that!” And in there, what I heard was there was a real pivotable, pivot moment in your life. Was the club…or was it a club, the robotics program? Or was that a class?

Juan Vivas (05:53):

You know, it was actually…it was VEX Robotics, specifically.

Eric Cross (05:56):

It was VEX! OK. Yeah, yeah. Really popular. And they still have it; I think we actually have some downstairs. So it was a club, and not necessarily a formal environment, where you were able to build. And it’s both collaborative and competitive, right? Like, there’s both aspects.

Juan Vivas (06:11):

Yep. Yep.

Eric Cross (06:11):

And, and then you had access to one of the only two facilities in the country that have these…were they buoyancy tanks?

Juan Vivas (06:20):

Buoyancy tanks, yep.

Eric Cross (06:21):

And there’s this book, Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers, and then another similar book called Balance. It talks about how some of these innovators, like Steve Jobs and, and Bill Gates, they had access to things that other people didn’t. So, like, Bill Gates, I think at the University of Washington, had a computer that, you know, no one else did. And Jobs had one at, like, Hewlett-Packard. So it gave you this awesome headstart, where you’re able to test things in a real-life environment that kind of transfers into real-world skills. And then a few internships, so like, internships and mentors. So you had these people in the industry or people who were front-runners that were able to pour into you and give you these opportunities. And so it’s really neat to see how a program that starts as a club, kind of a competitive thing that introduced you to it and hooked you, then led to unfolding all of these opportunities that ultimately led you up to being here. And there’s one part—in looking at your LinkedIn profile, there’s a couple of really cool things that stand out. There’s a lot of cool things, but there’s two that really stood out. So one, working at SpaceX, and we’ll talk more about that, but I wanna go to General Mills and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is amazing.

Juan Vivas (07:39):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (07:39):

And you were part of the supply chain for that. In my head, I’m thinking, OK, like, what is he like responsible for? Like, getting the cinnamon and sugar?

Juan Vivas (07:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (07:51):

What was, what did your job entail, when you were running that?

Juan Vivas (07:55):

There, I didn’t even know what I was gonna be doing until my first day. It was just, whatever the business need is, that’s where you’re gonna be put. So this was actually a high-priority plan for General Mills. And the production line that made Cinnamon Toast Crunch was split up into processes. So you have, they call it the process-process side, which is like literally raw materials, like making the cereal from scratch, baking it, adding the sugar, and then sending it to be packaged. And then you have the packaging-process side. so I was then placed as a packaging process lead, for the packaging side of that production line. So I was accountable for two packaging lines that packed out Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And that is where—that was actually my first real, you know, call it “real job,” like graduated college, going straight into the industry. I was a process lead for the packaging side of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Eric Cross (08:54):

So you went from cereal to rockets, <laugh>, which which is an amazing trajectory to have.

Juan Vivas (09:03):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:04):

And when you kind of mentioned, back in your story about medical school, and, you know, it’s kinda like, what you see people doing, and you’re “OK, this is what I think I wanna do.” And then we have a perception in our mind about what a certain job’s gonna be like. And then reality hits. I think a lot of—when I ask my students, “What do you wanna do?” They think, like, “lawyer!” and when they think “lawyer!” they’re like, “I’m good at arguing!” Right? And until they find—until they talk to some lawyers and they find out like what that career can look like.

Juan Vivas (09:28):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:28):

You’re not just in the courtroom showing off your arguing skills. But, like, an engineer, when I talk to my students about what does it mean to be an engineer, often it’s very linear. It’s “I build bridges,” or, you know, maybe cars, but you’re a supply chain engineer. And, and that’s something that I think, now more than ever, it’s probably an incredibly critical role, especially considering that all of these supply constraints. Can you—what is a supply chain engineer? And what does it look like in your day-to-day? How is engineering rolled into that?

Juan Vivas (10:03):

Yeah, yeah. I think that’s an excellent question. I, too, once thought that engineering was just “I’m gonna be actually making something physical,” and like being super engineer-y about it. But, to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem solver. As a supply chain engineer, specifically right now in my role at SpaceX…you know, as you can guess, the supply chain in the entire world is crazy. There’s no raw materials anywhere, and nothing can ever get on time. And so what I work on is I help our suppliers develop processes to meet the design criteria that we set up for like a specific part. As my job as a supply chain engineer, it’s “Can I take this design and make it manufacturable?” Right? “Can I go to any supplier and can they actually make this to the tolerance that the design engineer set them to be?” Nine out of 10 cases, the answer is no, essentially, is the best high-level way to put it.

Eric Cross (11:10):

When you’re solving these problems, is it this iterative process of going back and forth? Or is it just this aha-moment when you finally figure things out? ‘Cause I imagine they’re coming up with a design; you’re going back and saying, “Can this be manufactured?” or “Can it be done?” They’re saying no 90% of the time. And then are you the one responsible for kind of iterating on this, or changing it and then going back to them and telling them, asking them, until you get a yes? Is that—

Juan Vivas (11:33):

Yep. Yep, yep. Exactly. So we go through a process called Design for Manufacturing, DFMing. And where I essentially take, you know, the design engineer’s proposal, and then I have conversations with the suppliers, and then, that’s where the iteration begins. Where we go back and forth, back and forth, until we kind of meet in the middle to have something that can be manufacturable. Most of the times, in my experience, suppliers will always tell you no, just because they always want something that is manufactured really easily. And so you just gotta learn through experience. Like, when are they actually telling you something that’s a fact, versus when they’re just trying to you know, get out of a tolerance, or that “all right, all right, they mentioned that would just like make their jobs a little bit more difficult.”

Eric Cross (12:17):

So I’m hearing like there’s soft skills that are woven into the technical skills that you also need to be able to have.

Juan Vivas (12:23):

Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, as an engineer—and this is something, again, that I feel like you can only learn through experience—you’re gonna see that it’s not just you working to solve this one problem. Especially for a supply chain engineer. You’re talking with marketing; you’re talking with an industrial design team; you’re talking with logistics; you’re talking with procurement, materials management—just a whole set of people that don’t necessarily have technical background. Right? So sometimes, depending on the audience that I’m targeting, I’m always very, very peculiar on what is my target audience, right? How can I—how deep in my technical knowledge do I need to go? Because if I just, you know, talk straight Engineer, they either don’t care or they’re gonna be really confused about what I’m saying. So there is a stronghold of soft skills that definitely go into engineering, which I think are really important to communicate, you know, to, let’s say, students that are really interested in engineering. So you can be extremely smart and intelligent and really good at problem-solving, but if you don’t have those soft skills that you apply in the real world—’cause in the real world, you’re never only gonna be working with engineers, no matter like where you’re at—so having those soft skills to be able to manage with different backgrounds and different sort of people and different ways of thinking, it’s, I feel, really critical, for, for an engineer in the real world.

Eric Cross (13:50):

No, I think that’s a great point. It reminds me of teaching! And so many other professions where your ultimate goal is to really pour into this person in front of you and help develop them and create a sense of inquiry and wonder and personal growth and inspiration. But you’re also working within constraints and people and relationships. You know, you have your other teachers, you have parents, you have administrators, you have a district, you have communities, stakeholders. You have all of these different dynamics that you have to kind of navigate in order to ultimately help this child thrive. Versus just, like, being in the classroom: “OK, I just got <laugh>, the hundred or 200 students, just you and me. That’s it.” But that’s not the real world. And there’s this report that came out, I think Google ran it, Project Oxygen and Project Aristotle, and they asked the question, “What are the most effective traits of a good team and a manager?” And the top seven skills were all soft skills. So it is like exactly what you’re saying, where, yeah, it’s great that you have this technical aptitude, but if you’re not able to work with other people, problem-solve together, work with people of different backgrounds and perspectives, then you’re gonna run into some roadblocks. And that kind of dovetails, like, looking at things like if you looked at education from the perspective of an engineer. So you’re all about optimizing, right? Optimizing, working with what you got. When you look at education, are there any things that you would optimize to help improve the experience of students? Like, looking back, that you would fine-tune, that you think could provide better outcomes in the classroom?

Juan Vivas (15:28):

You know, I feel…I don’t know. Obviously I’m not a teacher. And I’m sure teachers just have so much stuff going on. But I think just like, finding…giving a chance to those students that you see a lot of potential in and really taking the time to mold them. You know, I did have a teacher who was able to mold me and give me that kind of one-on-one personal experience, right? I think honestly to me it just comes down to mentorship, and motivating students on what, you know, they’re passionate for. Like, putting them in front of engineers, right? Like finding engineers to come volunteer and explain to them. I genuinely believe it just takes one spark to really get a student on a trajectory where they can make an impact in the future. So to me, it comes down to, really, exposure. How much are you really exposing your students to…you know what, something I’ve learned, when I joined SpaceX, is that Elon doesn’t believe—well, you know, there there’s a lot of things that Elon believes and not believes in; there’s a whole different type of conversation!—but he doesn’t think that you can just take a curriculum, let’s say, and just apply it massively to everyone and expect like everyone to be it. That’s just naturally not how it works, right? Students learn at different paces; they have different sort of interests. This is actually why he created his own school for his kids in LA, called Ad Astra. You know, if you take that mentality, what that school is doing is that they’re working at the students’ pace and at the student’s interests, right? And I actually have a coworker who has his kids in that school. And I mean, these are one of the most brilliant kids I’ve ever known. Like, they are taking differential equations in the eighth grade. And I didn’t know what differential equations was until I was in college already and they told me, “This is a class you have to take.” <Laugh>. But it’s finding that crossway where, where is the curiosity of the student? What are they really interested in? and exposing them to that.

Eric Cross (17:51):

Yeah. And what I’m hearing of that is, in teacher-speak, a lot of personalized learning. Like you were talking about…is it Ad Astra?

Juan Vivas (17:59):

Ad Astra? Yep.

Eric Cross (18:01):

Ad Astra. You know, every student learns in their own way and they develop knowledge in their own way. And being able to personalize learning according to the students’ abilities and needs, and then accelerate or slow down, really produces some amazing effects. I know this is something that we as teachers try to do with the classroom. Scaling it is the challenge. But it’s great because even with people who are in charge of policy or people who have decision-making ability, hearing people from the top down saying, “Hey, look, this is what worked for me. This is how I was able to become successful. I had a teacher that was able to be a mentor to me because they knew me, they had a relationship with me, they were able to tap into my passions and use those passions to drive me to do or put me in programs that I might not have known about because they, they knew who I was.” And it’s not one-size-fits-all for everyone. So having—maybe it’s curriculum or learning experiences that are kind of modular, where students are able to maybe try on different things and get that exposure, I’m a big, big believer, like you are, in mentorship. That was a huge, huge thing in my life. Having mentors. It’s the reason why I became a science teacher. In seventh grade, I had a mentor who had us doing college-level science, you know, at UC San Diego. And it completely changed the trajectory of my life, in a direction that I wouldn’t have had without him. So I think that’s great. And it’s something that we as teachers would appreciate hearing. Going back to what you said…earlier you said your wife is a supply chain engineer as well. And so that means that there’s two people who are process-minded in the household. And this is kind of a lighter question, but I gotta wonder, do you have the most optimized flow for grocery shopping? <Laugh> Because…

Juan Vivas (19:49):

Yeah, I think we don’t spend more than like 20 minutes at a grocery store. Mind you, we only shop at Trader Joe’s and we have a very specific list before going in. And if you ever shop at Trader Joe’s, you just know where everything is ’cause it’s always there and it’s small, right? But yeah, like we’re, we’re in and out in like 15, 20 minutes. It’s great.

Eric Cross (20:11):

I love it. I love it. I feel like I’m that way by design. I go in with a purpose and this is exactly what I want. I know where the cookie butter is, <laugh>, I know where my coffee is, and then, OK, I’m in and out. Apple Pay or whatever I’m using. And then we’re good to go. Do you think…so as someone listening to this or some people even just becoming aware of supply chain engineering, what advice would you give someone that’s interested in pursuing this career path? If you maybe reverse-engineered your process, knowing what you know now, you were gonna give advice, you were that mentor, what are just some kind of tips or ideas or thoughts or trajectories that you’d think that they should aim for? I’m assuming like robotics….

Juan Vivas (20:56):

Yeah. You know, I think I would say definitely finding some sort of program that exposes you to a lot of things that you won’t be exposed to, like on a day-to-day basis, or something that you just can’t be exposed to naturally at school. And mentorship, honestly. I was born in Colombia and my parents were both—they’re still both professionals, but they were both professionals in Colombia. And when we moved to this country, this was like December of 1999. My parents started from scratch, and so they didn’t really grow up in the States, right? So when it was my time to go to college and do all of this stuff, it was just like me on my own figuring this stuff out. And, you know, they definitely made some mistakes when it came to college applications and whatnot. But once I was in college, I knew that the best way for my success was gonna be through mentorship. And that’s when I joined the, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, which is a nationwide organization. And each college, well, most college campuses, have their own chapter. In joining that, I was exposed to resume workshops, mock interviews—basically how do you even talk to a recruiter? Which is so critical, right? And personally that that organization was really what molded my actual professional career.

Eric Cross (22:19):

There’s this theme that I’m hearing, kind of weaving through this. And in addition to—as we’re talking about STEM and technical skills, in addition to that, there’s this thread that I’m receiving of…being able to form relationships with other people, for our students, is an important skill to teach and should be taught explicitly. Which isn’t…it’s not really a curriculum, right? Like, you don’t get tested on your ability to….conflict resolution or how to write an email or how to develop a relationship. And then the other part in I think what you just said is the aspect of community. Through this organization, you learned kind of some of these hidden rules, maybe I would call it.

Juan Vivas (23:04):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:04):

It’s not that you didn’t have the…you had the aptitude. You had the drive. But there were these kind of hidden rules, and from moving to the US, you needed a community to be able to show you, so that you can kind of go through the proper steps.

Juan Vivas (23:16):

Exactly.

Eric Cross (23:17):

And so that created a lot of value for you.

Juan Vivas (23:19):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:20):

Well, the last question that I have is, is just kind of a wondering. You have this awesome story, and the story continues to unfold. I gotta say, <laugh> I’m gonna be following your LinkedIn profile, because I think you just have kind of the coolest trajectory of going from, you know, General Mills, working in chemical engineering, and then ultimately it’s SpaceX. And every time I see the rocket taking off and landing, I’m gonna be thinking, thinking about you. So cool!

Juan Vivas (23:47):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (23:49):

And personally, I have a hope that one day, one of my students will be at a company, you know, like SpaceX or Tesla or wherever, and one day I get to interview them and talk to them and see what they say. But the last question I want to ask is, is there, is there a teacher who inspired you, or a memorable experience that you have that made an impact on you?

Juan Vivas (24:16):

Yeah, yeah, of course. It was kind of you know, middle school going into high school. The way my school worked, everything was divided from pre-kindergarten, whatever, first to sixth grade, and then seventh grade to 12th grade. So I had a high school science teacher, Ms. Brown, Ms. Velda Brown, who, came from a small little island town on the east coast of Canada. Somehow landed, in the high school that I went to, to teach science. Going back to the beginning of the story where I mentioned that I figured whatever, I’ll go to med school. I played soccer, basketball, and, you know, I said, “I’ll figure it out once I graduate.” It might have been like life science in the eighth grade or something like that. But then she went on to teach me chemistry and physics as well. And when I was in the 10th grade, she approached me and she asked me if I wanted to join the robotics club. And I remember saying robotics? I don’t know. You know, naturally, in school, it’s different sorts of crowds: people that play sports and people that are like in like STEM clubs or whatever. And I was, “Ah, I don’t know; I don’t know how I feel about robotics; not really my thing….” But somehow she convinced me to join robotics. It’s me, coming into this group of kids that already knew each other, and they were all working on robotics. And I’m, “Yeah, I mean, I guess I’m just here to try this thing out.” It was a thing where we met every single Saturday at like seven in the morning. And there were times where I literally had to choose, “Do I go to like a soccer game or do I go to you help my team with robotics?” And I completely loved it. Like, I fell in love with the aspect of building something from scratch, and just making it operative. And she ended up just being a huge mentor for me in high school, actually. With her, with the help of her, I ended up opening the robotics club at my school. And before I left, we opened it up to middle schoolers. And then, you know, later, years later down the road when I was in college, I found out that it was now a whole-school thing. So there was an elementary robotics club at the school, the middle school one, and then the high school one were still a thing like years after I left. And that was like just so amazing to hear. But yeah, it was Ms. Velda Brown, my high school science teacher, that really took her time to mold me and get me into robotics, and really mentor me. And honestly, I’m sure you as teachers, you guys probably hear about it a lot, but you can have a lot of power in shaping a kid by just telling—believing in them, right? She believed in me so much that I would go on to be a successful engineer. And I’m. “OK, yeah, yeah, you’re just saying it.” But she spoke life into her students up to this day. I still speak about it with my wife, and when I’m in conversations about this, that if it wasn’t for my high school science teacher, I would not—well, no, I would probably not be an engineer right now.

Eric Cross (27:38):

Wow. Shout out to Ms. Velda Brown <laugh>. Would you say she spoke…I think one thing that just resonated with me is when you said she “spoke life” into you.

Juan Vivas (27:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (27:46):

That was really powerful. And I think we as teachers have that power and we don’t realize it. Because, you know, we get so we’re so familiar and living day-to-day, but we do have the power of life, speaking life, into our young people. And, yeah, that was—

Juan Vivas (28:03):

Absolutely, yeah. You know, I think obviously people grew up with different backgrounds, different communities, life situations, right? So imagine having like a student that is similar in that environment and then they just hear someone at their school, like, “Hey, you’re really good at this. why don’t you consider doing this?” And that’s when I feel teachers have that power. Where like they don’t necessarily know the background, but they can make that opportunity, or make that decision in the moment, to really shape a student’s life.

Eric Cross (28:37):

And we need to hear that. And I think, I hope that other teachers listening to this will be reminded that many times we don’t get to reap the harvest. We don’t get to see the <laugh> Juan Vivases at SpaceX. They just kind of go, and they disappear, and we hope for the best, and we get a new group. But every once in a while they come back, and we get to see what our watering or seed-planting was able to produce. And so, just know that you sharing your story for educators, and for definitely Ms. Brown, makes a huge difference and is a huge encouragement. So.

Juan Vivas (29:11):

You know, I think we touched on earlier, you know, how do I end up going from cereal to rockets, right? And I think it ties along with what I mentioned earlier of just taking—as an engineer, you’re really a critical problem solver, right? And you think that methodology. And if you find a way, you can apply it to different sectors. When I was doing a lot of like the packaging process stuff at General Mills, being a lead on a high-volume manufacturing line, what I do for SpaceX specifically, right now, I’m actually on the Starlink project. So if you’re up to date with Starlink, it’s, it’s essentially high reliable, fast internet that we’re providing to areas where usually people don’t have access to internet, right? Or maybe they do, but it’s extremely expensive. Because to an internet provider company, the benefit is not there, if they extend an entire internet fiber line out to their place because it’s only directed to them, right? So that’s, that’s essentially what Starlink is trying to solve. And this is the first time that SpaceX is facing a consumer packaging scenario. Before it was just rockets. And now they’re selling a product to consumers. They had never done that before, especially in a high-volume manufacturing setting. And so I am the supplier development engineer for all the consumer-facing packaging for the Starlink product itself. And that’s essentially how all those thoughts connected, where I had this experience coming from General Mills and packaging high-volume manufacturing. And then when Starlink started, they’re all, “Right, well, who knows anything about packaging?” Right? “We know so much about rockets, we need someone with this technical background.” And that’s essentially how I bridge over to SpaceX.

Eric Cross (31:11):

And so while you’re working at SpaceX, you’re working on Starlink, which I know you mentioned that—you said that it’s providing internet globally, which in and of itself, we—especially those of us that live in major cities—we kind of take for granted. Internet is like a utility. But we don’t maybe realize that in many parts of the world, internet is not reliable or even accessible.

Juan Vivas (31:33):

Right. Right.

Eric Cross (31:34):

I see every once in a while, I think, the StarlinK satellites sometimes are visible?

Juan Vivas (31:38):

Yep.

Eric Cross (31:39):

Low orbit?

Juan Vivas (31:39):

Yeah. Yeah. You can go—they’ll kind of be like a little train of bright stars that move along together. Yep.

Eric Cross (31:46):

And that must—that must feel…I mean, we all have jobs and we’re all doing different things, but you’re working on a project and you’re engineering something that actually can provide a lot of opportunities or close a gap in some parts of the world where they don’t have access to internet. They’re gonna be able to have access and be connected all over. I dunno, the word would be “existential.” Existential value. Like, what you’re doing is actually providing a service for people. Humanity. Like, addressing a critical need in many, many places around the world.

Juan Vivas (32:26):

Yeah. We’ve had stories where we have sent Starlink kids to a small school in a village in rural Chile, right in South America. And for the first time ever, they’ve had internet. We have supported disaster relief in Europe. I think this past summer, Europe had really bad floods. We sent Starlink kits out there. You know, the vision of working at an Elon Musk company and SpaceX and Starlink—this is all stuff that is being done for the first time in history. We have never, ever done anything like this before until now. And to be able to provide those that don’t have the access to—to your point, it’s kind of wild, right? Like we, we just take it for granted. “Oh yeah, I just have internet. Let me log on.” There are people on Earth right now that have never been on the internet. Or don’t even know what the internet is. And that’s essentially the, the gap that Startlink is starting to close.

Eric Cross (33:26):

Yeah. We think about that while my students are doing TikTok dances. <Laugh> And there are people who, you know, never, never been connected. And, it kind of makes me more like, just inside, if I can ask: What’s it like working at SpaceX? I showed my students what it’s like working at some of the Silicon Valley companies. ‘Cause just to show them there’s slides and food and, you know, they kind developed this ecosystem inside so that it’s really kind of homey to kind of keep you there, you know. When you’re working and there’s bikes and things like that. And that’s a very Silicon Valley type of thing. But, you know, in listening to you talk about SpaceX and Elon, you know, you’re with a really visionary kind of company, and when I hear you talk about it, there’s I can hear this passion, this, “we’re doing something.” Is that culture, like, pervasive everywhere? Are you around folks that kind of are on that same wavelength? Because I definitely get it from you as you talk about what you do.

Juan Vivas (34:28):

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I think, as an engineer, you know, going to SpaceX and working at SpaceX, it’s essentially—personally, I believe right now in the US it’s like the mecca of engineering, right? Like, it is where engineering in this most, you know, shape and manner, it’s being applied. I think what’s really interesting is that the way that Elon looks at it is just iterate, and iterate fast, right? Like, fail and fail fast. I think as an engineer, you always want to have things perfect, right? And so you spend a lot of time in making a decision or investigating something or whatever. And working at SpaceX is the complete opposite. It’s just you know, “Assume, state your assumptions—like, what are you assuming right now? What are the risk at it? And just make a decision and then see what the result is.” You know, so it’s an environment where you learn, really quick.

Eric Cross (35:28):

You said something that I think was powerful and I hope, I think <laugh>, this is definitely, I’m gonna get a clip of this <laugh> of you saying it. Because it speaks directly to, I think, what a lot of students struggle with in the classroom, is there’s this competition or feeling that you always need to be right. And you need to be right the first try, on the first time. And a lot of times it’s because students will compare themselves to each other, or there’s a tremendous amount of pressure to be successful. But you said, “Fail and fail fast, iterate, state your assumptions.” And it sounds like this critical part of being an engineer or in what you do, like there’s no room for ego or attaching your identity or your sense of value or worth or ability to whether you’re able to solve a problem in the first try.

Juan Vivas (36:13):

Yep.

Eric Cross (36:14):

Like, you have to be OK with the cycle, is kind of what I’m hearing from you. Is that, is that right?

Juan Vivas (36:19):

Yep. Exactly. It only took six months to develop the product from scratch and launch it to the public, which is insane. Nowhere in the world will any company ever iterate that fast and come up with a brand-new project. But it’s because of that mentality—like you’re saying, it’s not about like just trying to make it perfect and have all this information. And I think Elon has learned this personally, you know, through Tesla and the beginning of SpaceX. It’s, “I can wait to have all this information, and most likely I’m still gonna be wrong after I make the decision.” So it’s, “Might as well take the risk, do the decision, and then just see where you learn from it, right?” And then you keep applying that, applying that. So it’s like you iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate until you get what you want.

Eric Cross (37:00):

I think this is even, like, great advice. I’m taking this personally because I get paralysis by analysis <laugh>.

Juan Vivas (37:06):

Yep.

Eric Cross (37:07):

You know, I’ll research something to death but then not actually execute. Like, I need to make a decision and do it and then course-correct along the way. Somebody once told me it’s a lot easier to turn a moving car than it is a car that’s sitting still. And so as you’re kind of flowing, you’re just making these adjustments along the way until you end up on the path that you want to be. So I think that there’s so many gems in the things that you’re saying right now. What I’m thinking through the lens of my seventh graders that want to work in any STEM field—I mean, really, any field in general, but especially engineering, especially the STEM fields—knowing that, pick it, make a decision, move forward, and then course-correct along the way. That’s what science looks like in the real world.

Juan Vivas (37:49):

Yep. Exactly. Yep. And definitely most important—and I feel like this is sometimes where, not necessarily education in general, but it’s just, we want students to, “OK, you need to get it right the perfect time, right?” But it’s like, every student is gonna think differently. A student is gonna take a different assumption based on their background and experiences. And I mean, you know, we can go a lot deeper in that, but the way a student is shaped, they’re gonna take certain assumptions. So that’s where it gets interesting. OK, why are you assuming that? Where’s your thought process in this?

Eric Cross (38:25):

And we all come from different backgrounds and mindsets and filters and biases that cause us to look at something a certain way. And it’s not just like calling it out, just going, “Hey look, this is what it is.” Like autopsy without blame, this is what I’m working with. Let’s discuss it openly. Right? And if we started that process earlier, you know, younger, in classrooms, we can de-stigmatize the right answer being the best answer more, as opposed to focusing on process as opposed to outcome. And then you kinda get used to wanting to go through the process. I look at it like video games and I talk to my students. I say, “You know, you don’t pick up a video game that’s brand-new and then play it and then you die once and you’re ‘Ah, I’m never gonna play this game again.’ You know, it just doesn’t work that way. You’re going through this iterative process, and no matter what you play, you’re trying things differently. You’re data collecting. And then you’re making new decisions based on the data that you collected.” And for some of my kids, they’ll just raise their hands, say, “No, I just get mad and throw the controller across the room.” <Laugh> But I go, “Yeah, and then you’ll try it again.”

Juan Vivas (39:33):

The best way to know how not to do something is to fail. And so you already…I mean, what is that famous quote? I think that’s why Thomas Edison’s, “Oh, I, did not fail 99 times. Right? I only found 99 times…” I mean, that is that is true. And I feel like at work in a SpaceX, that is something that probably the core of it comes from there. It’s you know, any failure, quote unquote, that you may take it as a failure, it’s really not. You’re just “OK, we, we tried that. It didn’t work. Like what are we gonna do next?” So it’s just like taking that learning and like moving off with it quickly.

Eric Cross (40:09):

I heard a couple of teachers say, “Things fail: First Attempt In Learning: F A I L.” And then another teacher, one of my mentor teachers, she said, “There’s no such thing as failure, just data, in science.”

Juan Vivas (40:20):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Exactly. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:23):

And so I’ve always taken that to heart. And I share that with my own students, just, “A ‘no,’ a lot of times, will tell you more information than a ‘yes.’” ‘Cause if something works in the first try, you may not exactly know why it worked. It just did.

Juan Vivas (40:34):

Yeah. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:37):

So yeah. Well, I went on your time, brother. Dude. <laugh>. The time flew. It was…

Juan Vivas (40:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (40:47):

There were so many things I was trying to write out as you were talking, that I just felt like, “This guy is sharing so many gems!” But yeah, I want to thank you for taking time outta your day and for sharing that information for your passion for what you do. And, I don’t know, I think that students and teachers that listen to this will get an insight from a perspective that really matters. ‘Cause ultimately we’re, we’re trying to really prepare our students for real life. Maybe I’ll email you privately if I order a Tesla, if you can move me higher up the Cybertruck line. <laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:22):

Yeah. No promises.

Eric Cross (41:24):

<laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:25):

Yeah. No, I appreciate you guys having me, having me here, and be able to speak on my experience. And hopefully it sparks a couple, one, even if it’s just one teacher that will spark another student, that is already success there. So.

Eric Cross (41:42):

Well I know, I know what you said resonates with me and it fills my cup. And I’m excited. So I’m already thinking of some ideas of things that I can do, just because of this conversation, and I know other people will as well. And, again, this is Juan Vivas, who’s a supply development engineer at SpaceX. He’s worked at some amazing places. And someone who believes deeply in not only the power of the technical skills, but the heart skills, and how community makes a huge impact in his life. It made a huge impact in him ultimately becoming a scientist, and now working on a project at SpaceX, Starlink, that is going to provide access to the world, to the web. And that’ll ultimately help us solve more problems and innovate and create some solutions that will benefit everybody. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

Juan Vivas (42:30):

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, Eric. Appreciate it.

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What Juan Vivas says about engineering

“Based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it… an engineer is a technical problem solver.”

– Juan Vivas

Supplier development engineer, SpaceX

Meet the guest

Juan Vivas is a chemical engineer currently working as a Supplier Development Engineer at SpaceX. Juan got his start at the University of Florida, where he led the Society of Hispanic Engineers (SHPE) as vice president. He’s worked for companies like Clorox, Dow Chemical, and General Mills. Juan lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife and two dogs.

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About Science Connections: The podcast

Welcome to Science Connections: The Podcast! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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S4 – 02. Bethany and Dan share their math biographies

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In this episode, co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer get personal and share their “math bios”—their early experiences with math and how those experiences turned them into the educators they are today.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

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Dan Meyer (00:00):

We’re recording. What’s up, everybody. This is Dan Meyer with Math Teacher Lounge.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:08):

And I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson. We are so excited to be back. Season Four, Episode Two. Hi, Dan.

Dan Meyer (00:16):

Hey, Bethany, how are you doing today?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:18):

I’m so excited to be talking with you! You know, as we record this, our reunion at NCTM is getting closer and closer.

Dan Meyer (00:28):

The NCTM live show is gonna be bonkers. I don’t think people are ready for it. You think you know what we’re about on MTL from listening to us, but the live show is gonna be outta control. You cannot imagine how many clowns and elephants Bethany wants to have at the live show. We’re still—we’re trying to talk her down from like three to one, but we’ll see.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:44):

All I want is the t-shirt cannon. Because I used to go to these baseball games and they would have a t-shirt cannon. And I thought, I wanna operate a t-shirt cannon! So like, if I could be standing on stage aiming t-shirts at people who are jumping up and down requesting a t-shirt? I don’t know. Doesn’t that sound fun?

Dan Meyer (01:01):

Sounds awesome. High point of my college education was catching a t-shirt. No, it was—it was a burrito. It was a burrito cannon. But I think it was just a t-shirt cannon, but it was a burrito cannon. And I caught a burrito at a game and it was probably the most memorable moment of all of college education for me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:16):

Was the burrito still warm?

Dan Meyer (01:18):

Oh yeah. I think it got—like, I think it might’ve been warm at one point and then it got warmed back up through the muzzle velocity of the cannon. So it was a pretty great system they had going on there. <Laugh> Yeah. <Laugh> Anyway, I’m off topic, but, we’re thrilled to—I’m thrilled to chat with you and we’re thrilled to be listened to by you folks out there in MTL land. In the lounge itself. We got a fun show today.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:40):

So if you listen to Episode One—which if you haven’t, hope you go back and listen to it—if you listen to Season Four, Episode One, you’re gonna hear—we asked Huon, KT, who is this delight of a joyful teacher. We asked her to talk to us about what’s her math bio. And we want to ask all of our guests—like, I wanna go back and ask every single guest we’ve ever had to tell us their math bio.

Dan Meyer (02:06):

Yep.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:06):

Because, while seemingly simple in nature, our students enter our math classroom already having had this relationship with math and these notions about their role in math or what they think about math. And it impacts our school year with them if we’re a teacher. And it impacts our relationship with math as we move through our education and beyond. Right? And I I’m so excited about this question, ’cause I think it also ties into this theme for Season Four, which is joyful math, and diving into “When has math felt joyful? When has it not? Does it feel like—how do we think about how our math bio, our relationship with math, has evolved into a joyful or less joyful place?”

Dan Meyer (02:54):

I get it. And what’s really key here, I think, is that teaching more than other professions is a generational profession. You know what I’m saying? Like, no one is like, “Well, you know, I sold insurance to you and now you’re selling insurance to, you know, my grandkids; that’s amazing!” But people are always posting photos when, like, you teach someone who then becomes a teacher later. Teaching is a generational sort of thing. So the kinds of joyful experiences that we offer or don’t offer students now affect the experiences that students who haven’t even been born yet will have, you know, some 20, 30 years later. That, to me, is a trip. And well-worth exploring, you know, how we got here, mathematically speaking.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:39):

I remember a friend had sent me this image of an assignment that her son got that was asking for their Mathography. They wanted to know about their history of mathematics. And this was their first assignment. And this teacher, I would like to imagine, read them all and used it to inform conversations about students’ relationship with math. And, you know, some of the questions they asked were thinking about whether you consider yourself, quote, unquote, “good at math.” Like “what kind of experiences have you had? What do you like or dislike about math? What is, you know—what do you expect to learn in math this year?” Just asking students to actually pause and examine and reflect on their relationship and then also looking forward to, like, what kind of a classroom community do we wanna create? And I loved that assignment. And yeah, so today’s episode Dan, guess what?

Dan Meyer (04:32):

What’s going on? What’s happening?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:33):

I figured we should ask each other about our math bio.

Dan Meyer (04:39):

I think the people out there would love to know this about us. ‘Cause you know, we’re both awesome. But also what’s really cool here is that like, I don’t know this about you. Like not, not a lot. You know, the folks at Amplify, they kind of assembled me and Bethany together in the same way that record labels assembled pop boy bands, girl bands, that kind of thing, back in the day. You know, grabbing some stars from screen or film and just like throwing ’em together and saying, “All right, now you’re here to perform together.” And so it’s just a really good moment for us to, like, settle back and just know who we’ve been working with for the last three seasons and change here. I love it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:15):

Well, I don’t know. I don’t actually agree with that, Dan. Because don’t you remember? We knew each other beforehand. And while I would like to think of us as…oh, I’ll say One Direction—well, no, One Direction is now defunct. Who’s another band that got formed by one of those shows and is still together and still—

Dan Meyer (05:33):

BTS! K-Pop, you know! Let’s go!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:35):

K-pop. BTS.

Dan Meyer (05:38):

Let’s go, Bethany <laugh>.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:39):

So can we incorporate some K-pop into the NCTM Math Teacher Lounge live episode? Don’t answer now. Don’t answer now. OK. So not only are we gonna share our math bios, but we want to encourage you listeners to share your math bio with somebody in your life. It could be a child in your life, maybe talking to your kiddo about what was it like. What was math like for you? It could be a student that you have. It could be a partner, a friend, a parent. I mean, the sky’s the limit. Share your math bio. And most of all, share with us. We wanna hear about your math bio and you can share it with us at Twitter, at MTLShow, or in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge.

Dan Meyer (06:26):

Stop on by, please. All right. I’m gonna just share like, just a couple of quick, signposts. Not the full bio. Gotta leave them wondering about something here. But here’s a few quick highlights and lowlights of my math bio and how, maybe, it made me the teacher that I was and the educator I am. Is that cool?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:44):

Wait, I didn’t even, I didn’t ask you yet.

Dan Meyer (06:46):

Ask me what?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:47):

Hey, Dan!

Dan Meyer (06:49):

Is there like a magical word? Like, what’s your math bio? <Laugh> Oh, go for it. No, no, that’s right. They won’t know what I’m talking about. Why is he talking about his math bio? Bethany—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:57):

That whole lead-in that we just gave? They might not know.

Dan Meyer (07:00):

Yeah. We just talked about math bios for the last 20 minutes. But yeah, they might not know what we’re—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:04):

<laugh> So Dan, why don’t you go first? ‘Cause I know you were gonna ask me to go first, but why don’t you go first? Dan? What’s your math bio?

Dan Meyer (07:12):

Oh, wow. Well, thank you for the formal invitation to share my math bio, Bethany Lockhart Johnson. So, I’ll just share—I just wanna share a couple items here, not the full history. Gotta leave ’em—leave a little mystery in there, you know what I’m saying? But here’s a few highlights and lowlights, and I think what it means for me as an educator. So, I was homeschooled for eight years. That was big—did a lot of math learning on my own. Couple of lowlights from that, a lot of highlights, in terms of just like being able to, like, learn at my own rate and just jump on ahead and pursue different wacky things. But I tried to switch into public school in fourth grade and I lasted, um, four hours. I didn’t even go to class. I enrolled and then it was like, boom, I was out of there. Because we went to the school; we met the teacher, saw the room, very nice person and place. But I got the homework assignment and the homework assignment was gibberish. I had no idea what to do and such was this feeling of just, like, despair and hopelessness, I was like, I cannot be a part of this. I remember the assignment. It was about identifying scalene, isosceles, and equilateral triangles. I’ll tell you this: I am quite good at that now. But at the time, like, I didn’t know what those words meant. And you know, at that moment we had Encyclopedia Britannica, could not Google this or even Ask Jeeves or AltaVista this so well back then. It just—it was an entry moment of failure and realizing that so much of math is like a, kind of a social kind of construct. And if you’re not part of that social circle, what can you do? So that was a bummer. Another bummer was eighth-grade math, learned it all by way of videotape. You know, put in the tape and watch—not gonna say the person’s name and not this person’s fault—but it was just like watching someone work on a whiteboard. Kind of a precursor to Khan Academy, kind of a drag. Went to high school—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:02):

Wait, wait, wait, wait. We were—I’m not ready to jump to high school. Wait. Can you pause for just a second?

Dan Meyer (09:06):

Yeah. Rock on.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:07):

I just need you to go back to the triangle thing. So in that moment, what did that mean for you that you had had all these experiences with math and then you encounter math in a completely different sphere, a public school, and it did not have a connection or meaning to you because prior to that, it sounds like it was pretty positive. Right? Explore these things you’re curious about; there’s not, like, a level you need to stick with…

Dan Meyer (09:33):

Yep, yep. Yeah. I think that’s right. Maybe it was a little bit of a classic, like, “Oh, I didn’t have a growth mindset; my mindset was like, ‘Oh, I’m good at math because I am, you know, born that way,’” and all of a sudden, that identity was, you know, thrown into question. And, you know, my foundation was all of a sudden quite shaky. And yeah, that’s—you know, I think I taught a lesson recently where I was like, “Hey, this whole thing with a less-than or equal-to sign and a greater-than or equal-to sign, like what those signs are: it’s just, it’s language. And if it’s confusing to you, it’s not because you’re bad at math; it’s ’cause language is oftentimes confusing ’cause people have to agree on it.” So I dunno, that sort of thing is kind of filtered in, filtered back in periodically, some sympathy for like how a lot of math is like just socially agreed upon ways of working with, you know, numbers, shapes, patterns, that kind of thing.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:20):

OK.

Dan Meyer (10:21):

Anyway.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:21):

  1. And in this home school—I have a lot of questions about that, but I’ll stick to one—were you in a community of people that you talked about these math ideas with? Were you homeschooled solo? You have a sibling, so I think you were together, right?

Dan Meyer (10:39):

Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got a twin sister. So we were, you know, like, right on with each other the whole way through there. And yeah, so we had—but it wasn’t, it wasn’t like a—it was a lot of individual work, with my flavor of homeschooling.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:54):

  1. Got it. And the tapes—wait, before you go to high school, the tapes, the VHS tapes, which I’m just loving this image—

Dan Meyer (11:02):

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:02):

Was that a positive experience? Was that because that was an area of math that whoever was homeschooling you wasn’t that comfortable with? Why was it that route for the tapes, and what was that? Was that joyful for you?

Dan Meyer (11:15):

Yeah, definitely not joyful. Yeah, it was like, if you had questions, you couldn’t really ask them of the VHS tape. It didn’t work out so well in that way. And it was a lot of operational-type math. It was, you know—there was no give and take; it was all kind of take. From the video teacher. And yeah, I was doing that because my homeschool teacher, my mom, who is very smart in lots of areas, did not have the math knowledge or confidence, especially to help with math at eighth grade. And that was a big reason why, flash-forward to the next year, went to high school.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:48):

Nice segue. OK.

Dan Meyer (11:50):

<laugh> You caught up to high school…I encountered just like four years of just crazy-good, just bonkers-good math teachers who just really changed a lot for me. Especially, Mr. Bishop and Mr. Cavender, very cool folks who did a lot. And especially, I think Mr. Bishop and Cavender both modeled for me what curiosity from a knowledgeable adult looks like. Like someone who, you know, now I can say to myself, “Oh, they were kind of like putting on an act of being very curious about answers they were hearing for the 2000th time from a student,” let’s say, but what a powerful experience that was for me to feel like, “Oh, wow, my thoughts are interesting to someone besides myself.” I got like, maybe it’s two real highlights that I’ll just point to, from my math bio that made me the math teacher and person that I am. Let’s see here. Maybe three, if you you’ll indulge me. One is just like the idea that you could do math wherever you have your brain, a pencil and a paper. And so I remember like in high school, I was in church with my family and kind of a little bit bored of whatever’s going on. And I just had the Bolton and I like drew a pentagon, a regular one, then a hexagon, a regular one, and kept on drawing, like adding sides to the shape. And it was like, it was becoming a circle. And, you know, I was able to take the area of each of those shapes and say, you know, “What happens as you send the number of sides to infinity?” And watch as the formula for area of a circle, Pi R squared, popped out. And it was kind of a literal religious experience, in that moment, just like, “Wow, like my brain’s so cool and math is so cool and paper and pencil’s so cool.” And so there’s that. Just that kind of experience was pretty awesome. And then I would just say like, I’ve had some really fantastic experiences with math in the world itself. Stuff like—let’s see, this is gonna invite more questions from Bethany, probably, maybe I should avoid—I got, I have a Guinness—I have a Guinness world record that’s almost 20 years old. This Guinness world record is—it’s old enough to drive basically at this point. And almost old enough to drink. But like it was—it was a record for chaining the longest paper clip chain together in 24 hours. And the only way I was able to break that record was through mathematics. Where, like, I would be finishing a box of clips. And I would say to my buddy who was there, “I just finished a box of clips.” And that person would type in the number of clips that I had just done. And then a mathematical formula that I had created would tell me how many—how long the chain was at that point. It was being rolled around a spool. And like, it’s just like, wow. So math just made this possible. You know, math revealed that the record I was trying to beat was beatable, because I did the math on it. It was, like, thousands of feet long in 24 hours. And other folks might be like, “Oh, like, that’s that’s huge!” But me, I was like, “All right, let’s divide this out. You know, divide by 24 hours in a day, divide by 60 minutes an hour, 60 seconds in a minute. Oh, that’s like one clip every four seconds. That’s really slow.” You know, think about that <counts aloud>, “Clip, two, three, four. Clip two, three…” It was just slow. So math helped me, you know, wreck that record. Which to my knowledge still still stands. Don’t get any ideas, Math Teacher Lounge Folks! Is this news to you, Bethany? You haven’t blinked in the last, like, five minutes. I’m curious if this is new.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:20):

It is news to me. And I have so many questions. Because OK, if four seconds was slow, so then what was your like—so then I’m assuming a hundred clips per box? Like, what was the rate, you know, per box? How long did it take you to complete a box? What did this friend like? Did this friend stick with you for the whole 24 hours? Did you really do it for 24 hours? Or once you beat the record, did you rest? How did you account for biological function? Like, needs? Like a restroom?

Dan Meyer (15:51):

<Interrupting> Like what?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:51):

Eating.

Dan Meyer (15:51):

Like what, Bethany? OK.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:52):

Um, Sleep.

Dan Meyer (15:55):

So yeah, maybe we dive into some of the specifics in a different time.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:59):

Just tell me one of ’em. Tell me one.

Dan Meyer (15:59):

I’ll just say. So as to discourage other Math Teacher Lounge listeners from taking this on—back off of the record, folks!—this was back in college, so I was a little more limber back then. But I did one—I think it was 1.8 seconds per clip. For an entire 24 hours. Just like, so just like think about it, would you? If you’re gonna step to me on this one, just think about that, OK? And then, and then, you know, make an informed decision.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:28):

Wait. Wait, wait, I just wanna tell you one thing. I’m picturing somebody with a straw, and like, giving you water as you keep clipping. I’m picturing, like, music, I…

Dan Meyer (16:37):

That’s not far. That’s not far. That’s not far from—yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:40):

So many questions! OK. Go on. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Go on. This is your bio.

Dan Meyer (16:44):

We gotta, I gotta wrap this up. I wanna hear your bio. But, like, I would just say like this move to this sense that math is actually a thing that’s useful for more than just a grade; it’s useful for more than just, you know, the societal, you know, adulation that comes from being a math nerd. That kind of thing. And so that, I think that affected a lot of math teaching for me. And, if I gotta, like, summarize math teaching itself in a journey, it went from like, “Hey kids, aren’t I awesome?” to, “Hey kids, isn’t math awesome?” to “Hey kids, aren’t you awesome?” And like that journey was facilitated by lots and lots of people, you know, a lot of personal growth, but at this point, at one point I was like, “Hey, math can help you get records and whatnot. It’s really useful.” And now I’m like, “Wow, your brain’s just doing just really interesting things. I can help you understand how interesting those things are, and maybe make them more interesting, or interesting in a different way, with some help here.” Let’s put a pin in that. That’s the math bio.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:50):

  1. So I have no doubt that if you ask someone in your life, listeners, for their math bio, that you will discover things about them that you never knew. Literally the questions that I have…I have so many question. And Dan is very good at, you know, bringing me back. Bring me back, like, come on, come on. But I just wanna say, overall, your journey seems pretty joyful. It seems pretty joyful. It seems pretty full of confidence. I don’t wanna say “ego” in a negative way, but I wanna say you were buoyed by these experiences that allowed you to feel like math was a place for you to thrive.

Dan Meyer (18:36):

Right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:36):

Where you could try out things. You could try it out and just, “I could do that!” Right? Like…your relationship just felt very, like…you felt like you had autonomy, agency, perhaps much like you, you operate in this world. Dan, is that, is that right <laugh>?

Dan Meyer (18:54):

Yeah, I think it’s fair to say. And without telling too much of her story, my twin sister with whom I share most things, including genetics, you know—she had a very different experience in math early on. She’s brilliant. She’s a doctor. And not, you know, the book kind of doctor that I am, but like a real, you know, medical doctor. She’s brilliant. But we were—we encountered different messages about who math was made for, early on in, you know, in our entire math learning. And she—we both digested the messages that we were sent, and took, you know, different, different paths because of them, for sure.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:31):

Funny how that works. I thank you, Dan. I do. For in all sincerity, I appreciate you sharing that. And I think that it’s exciting to hear how it influenced your teaching. It feels like you want to cultivate those experiences for your students. And I’ve been in the room when you’ve presented; I was in a room where you taught a class live. It felt like you were making space for the students to have these aha moments. And it feels like in your work at Desmos, and now Amplify, you’re trying to create these products that allow folks to recreate these amazing math moments. Right? And that it’s for everyone and that it’s accessible and it can be very positive. I feel like I have this new perspective on kind of the energy you bring to your teaching. So thank you for sharing that.

Dan Meyer (20:24):

Yeah. Been a pleasure. Thanks for your questions here, Bethany. And it’s been—it’s been fun to reflect on it. And I do—I do feel very lucky in lots of ways. Privileged. Lucky. I know, like—I think the world has been set up for my success in lots of ways, as who I am. But I do just…yeah, I feel—I want more people to experience what it’s like when you walk into a math classroom and it’s like, “Hey, this place is for you. You have interesting thoughts about this. Let’s get ’em out.” So that’s awesome. I would love to hear about you and how you…I mean, we have taught different kinds of kids. You know, I taught kids who I think were somewhat set in, they’re a little bit more solid at secondary in who they are as a math learner. Like “I know who math is and who I am with math.” And I’m really excited to hear what your math bio allowed you to do with students who were perhaps open to the idea that they are very mathematical or at least not yet closed off to those possibilities. So, yeah. What are some of the high, the, you know, the high and low water marks of the making of Bethany Lockhart Johnson, math teacher? <Laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:24):

Thanks for asking, Dan. <Laugh> I’ve shared aspects of my math bio because I think it really informs the way that I talk to people about math and think about math. And I like to share it because I want folks to consider their own journey with math, as we like engage with problem-solving and sense-making and thinking about the students in our classroom. My dad is a math and computer science major. So he had a computer very early on. I wish he had invested in Apple early on when he had like one of the first Apple computers ever. And, sorry, dad, but it’s true. I do wish you had done that.

Dan Meyer (22:10):

I’m sure he does too.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:11):

Oh, he does. So math and computers and conversations about counting, you know, it felt like it was kind of just normal. Like it was around me. And I went to Montessori, which is a private school that—oh, they have some public Montessori—but it’s very self-directed. And so we would have these kind of charts, these goals for the day that you explored. And so we would explore math in very, I don’t know, very organic ways, with these natural materials. And I feel like I excelled at math, but it wasn’t something that I was conscious of. It was just like, “Oh, well, yeah. Math, it’s, you know, something we do.” And then when I went to—when I left Montessori in fourth grade, I remember that year being a lot of like repetition. I was like, well, we did this. We covered this. And except for the mission project that we hadn’t done, that was all new. And that’s it. For another time I’ll share about that. But <laugh> then, they actually, I was moved with a group of students to the fifth grade math class, ’cause we had already done the work that we were doing. And so, it wasn’t that it felt like it came easily, but it did make sense. What we were doing made sense. And then it all kind of changed. There was a lot of change in my family. There was, like, missed school time. And we moved and I went to a new middle school and I was in this environment with students who—it was like an accelerated program. And so I was in this environment with students who were pretty competitive with each other. And I remember going—and I was not from of a competitive environment; like Montessori is not competitive. It’s not about that.

Dan Meyer (24:02):

Right. Right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:02):

It’s—it was very strange to me that I would be competing against anyone, even competing against myself. And I, you know, knew how to set goals. But it was a different level of energy. And I felt like, because I wasn’t competitive in that nature, I felt like that kind—I felt on the outside of a lot of the energy. Besides the regular, like, middle-school feeling outside of things. And I remember the first friend that I made. Hi, Susan! She had said to me, this was like maybe our second week of school, she’s like, “Oh, at lunchtime, come with me to math club.” And I was like, “OK.” And I remember walking into that room and I had no idea what was going on. And so that was one of the first times where I was just like, “Whoa, I have absolutely no concept of what they’re talking about or what.” These are my peers. I felt very—it was very—it was strange. It was strange. I was like, “This doesn’t feel like a space for me at all.” When I think ordinarily I was kind of excited about the idea of going to math club at lunch, you know? And over middle school, I kind of just got progressively more and more behind. It started with missing some work and then missing more and then checking out. And, you know, the problem was that I really made it about myself. That, like, it wasn’t something that I was then good at or could do. When really it was that well, pre-algebra, I was having a really hard time in like the rest of my life. And so I wasn’t real present in that class. And so when I got to algebra, it didn’t make a whole lot of sense. And then if I missed Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, well, Thursday is gonna be hard, you know? And, it just got progressively harder and harder. So I had this great idea that between eighth grade and ninth grade, I was going to take this accelerated geometry class. ‘Cause that was the ninth grade class, it was geometry. And I would take it. It was like geometry in three weeks or something. So then when I entered high school, I would’ve gotten this like jumpstart. But I wish I had said, “Oh, I’ll take this, and then in ninth grade I’ll take geometry.” So like I’ve already kind of gotten a preview of the material. But instead I went to the 10th grade math, which was like intermediate algebra, trigonometry. I had absolutely no clue what was going on. And I had a very, very difficult time and I wasn’t ready for that class. But it was exacerbated by the fact that this teacher felt very free to let the freshmen in that class know that they shouldn’t be in that class. That this class was for 10th graders.

Dan Meyer (26:49):

Oh wow. Oh, wow.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:51):

And we had a rather contentious relationship. And I will never forget that we were in the hallway, and he says to me, “You don’t belong here.” And I’ve talked to—I’ve talked to a girlfriend of mine about her experiences with this teacher and she has the fondest memories.

Dan Meyer (27:13):

Wow.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:14):

She—in fact, almost everyone I’ve spoken with, you know, if we are talking about past teachers or, “Oh, what was that class like?” I mean, they just have these wonderful memories! And for me, my sense of like belonging was already so on a tight rope anyway, that to have this adult, this teacher, tell me, “You do not belong here,” just crushed me. And in hindsight, I think he was saying like, “This class is too hard for you.” I mean, maybe. <Laugh> But all I heard was “You don’t belong here.” And I extrapolated it to connect to math and to anything having to do with math in general. And it just got worse and worse through high school in the world of math. My next math class was even—I had to repeat that class, and still didn’t understand what was going on, and felt more out of place, and, you know, it’s one of those things that I just kind of had started to accept that, I guess, math isn’t for me. I guess I’m just not a math person. Or whatever these stories are that I started to create and build and find evidence for around me that was informing that this wasn’t for me. And I had always done well in school. I was in, you know, accelerated classes. I felt like I was capable of problem solving. And yet in math, I just felt like I had all of this evidence saying that I didn’t belong there. And so when I went to college, I took whatever two math classes were—you know, I was in performing arts and then I did ethnic studies as well. And I remember you had to take two math classes that were GEs. There were these classes that if you don’t wanna deal with math, you go take those classes. And I was like, “Oh yeah, I’ll take that. I’ll take that.” The gulf widened, you know? <Laugh> And I didn’t feel like anxiety when I had to do things like balance my checkbook or navigate math in everyday spaces. It was just, it would never occur to me that I would like seek out opportunities to engage with math or think about it or talk about it.

Dan Meyer (29:35):

That is—yeah, that’s just so wild, how, I don’t know, like it’s often, from the student’s perspective, it is them in a vacuum with math, and the two of them interact and decide if, you know, if they’re right for each other. But from the grown-up perspective, it’s just, you know, it’s a little bit clearer that your story with math was not just you in math, but you with, you know, various external things happening. With family, various teachers playing their different roles—sometimes, you know, really tragic and horrible roles—and then like the compounding mathematical debt that it feels like you were kind of building up, as challenges in one year didn’t get resolved and moved into the next year and so on. And all that makes me wonder—it makes me, like really, really scared, first of all, because I would bet that your teacher might not even remember that moment, that for you is part of just a pivotal moment in your math story, and how many kids have I played—have I been a part of their story in that way and wouldn’t even recall? You know what I’m saying? So that’s a scary part. And then also I’m just wondering, like, how can we, how can we help kids who are in those moments recognize that, “Oh, this kid is like absent a bunch,” and give them more resources to be successful rather than say, “Well, you just gotta try harder now.” Those are things I’m wondering, hearing your story. Thank you for sharing that. I’d love to know more about how you then became a teacher and what all that did for you as you helped students.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:06):

Well, but to answer what you were saying, it wasn’t that I wasn’t—I was always absent physically, but at least like mentally at that point, because it had become so difficult. It didn’t make sense to me. So I was just really checked out in math class, you know? So in hindsight, you know, as a teacher, for sure I can look back, and especially hearing these stories and these experiences my friend had with this teacher and just like chalks up as one of like her most favorite teachers ever! And you know, he clearly did a great job for so many students. But for me, and I think for some people, they would’ve taken those challenges and, you know, it would have fortified them in a different way or something. But for me, I took it upon myself to mean certain things about myself and about my ability and what I was capable of. And so I think, I think in some ways, you know, yeah, it’s all, it’s all interconnected. You know, when your students walk in the door, they’re not this—the things that are impacting them in their life are coming into the room with them. And I don’t think we can take that for granted and think, “Well, if they just focus hard enough…”

Dan Meyer (32:21):

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:23):

So let’s go back to my love of Oprah. You know, Oprah talks about living your best life. And something I really appreciate about Oprah is that she encourages you to examine, like, sticking points, right? Like she doesn’t just say, “Well, this…just pretend nothing ever happened, and everything’s fine!” You know, she really talks about making time for reflection. And I kind of got mad that anytime I thought about math, or math schooling came up. Or, you know, whatever, any time that came up that I just felt UGH about it. And I felt like a failure. And I’m like, “You know what, what if I took a math class? And I’m an adult at this point. I’ve graduated. I have—I’ve left college. I have my degrees. But I said, “What if I took a math class?” So I went down to, the city college and I found out that you have to take this exam, like a placement exam. And I went and took the placement exam. And I remember it’s one of the responsive tests where if you get it right, the next question’s a little harder. And so I’m taking it, panicking, because it’s getting more like…I just, you know. And I remember it placed me in like, whatever, Algebra Something, this class that was far more advanced than I thought I should be in. And I was like, there’s been a mistake! You know, and I went to the counselor and said, you know, “I got these results, but I couldn’t answer a lot of the questions on the test.” She’s like, “No, no, no, that’s how it works.” So I go take this class and the class was hard. And I decided that I was just gonna keep showing up. And every day before class, I kid you not, they had a little math…it was like a math center where you could go in and they had a bunch of tables and you’d sit at the table and you could sit and do your work or whatever. If you had a question, you walked up and put your name on a clipboard and then somebody would come and help you. So I did that, every single—like before every single class I would go in. I’d sit there. I’d do the work. I’d go. And I’d get help. Like somebody would walk over and you know, some kid for whom they’re like this…you know, they’re math—it might be you, Dan! It could be you! It could have been you! You know, would walk over and be like—

Dan Meyer (34:38):

Yeah, I was in Help like that. Naw, it’s awesome. Love, love those people. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:42):

And you know, I did it. And I did so well in the class. I did exceedingly well in the class. And I said—

Dan Meyer (34:50):

Take that! Take that, everything! Every other math experience!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:53):

I said, what?

Dan Meyer (34:55):

Yeah!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:55):

Wait a second.

Dan Meyer (34:56):

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:57):

And it was that I was present. I was not afraid to look at what didn’t make sense. And if something didn’t make sense, it didn’t mean there was something wrong with me. Whaaaaat?

Dan Meyer (35:10):

Yeah. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:10):

So I was just in such a different space. And then I took another math class and that class was even harder. And I did the same thing where I went to the little lab and, you know, and it just buoyed me. And it made me realize that, like, this story, that my experience with it was very powerful and that was a real lived experience, but that it didn’t have to define my relationship with math. But then! I decided I wanted to go back to school to become a classroom teacher. And I totally—this was a couple years after that math class experience. So now, you know, I’m healing my relationship with math through basic positive experiences, da, da, da, you know, doing other work. But fast-forward, for a whole number of reasons, decided to become a classroom teacher. And I freaked out. All of my—like, I’m studying for the GRE and the CSET and all the things you have to the hoops you have to jump through to apply to the masters program and the credential program. And I freaked out. I was so close to quitting, Dan. Because I was convinced that the reason I couldn’t be a classroom teacher is because I wasn’t capable in math. Like I was—it was all that resurfaced. And even though I now had evidence to say something different, to the contrary, it was still so visceral. And I was so scared. But I passed that Math CSET.

Dan Meyer (36:47):

Get it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:47):

I did well enough on the GRE—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:50):

Yes!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:50):

You know, I finished my credential. I worked really, really hard. I had to work so hard in my student placement, when I was student teaching for a fifth-grade class, ’cause I felt like, “Oh my God!” I mean, now I could do the mathematics, but I couldn’t TEACH it to someone, you know? But I had amazing professors at UCI, and my math professors really like just—and my mentor teacher! shout out to Jennifer! shout out to Phil!—these amazing mentor teachers who just loved teaching and who loved—like you said, you have these teachers in your life who you got to see the way that they listened to students. They taught me about that love of listening to students. And then I fell in love with, you know, CGI, cognitively guided instruction, and started learning all about all of these educators who just wanna learn from students’ thinking. And it was just so powerful. And I realize as a kindergarten teacher that I have this really special role in helping to create space for a positive school experience. Like we get to talk about—I talk about my students as mathematicians; they’re writers; they’re thinkers; they’re problem-solvers. And I also want to make space for parents. Some of them, this is their first kid in kindergarten, and they brought all of their experiences, a lot of it negative, that they had had with mathematics. So I felt like it was such an exciting opportunity to help show parents how they could have conversations about math with their students. That also, I hope helped heal their own anxiety with mathematics.

Dan Meyer (38:41):

Right, right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:42):

Like, I’ve not even scratched the surface of math learning. But I just have such a changed perspective and relationship with math. And I just fell in love with the sense-making. And I fell in love with the journey of it. I still experience math anxiety about a wide variety of things, but I do love it. And I feel like there’s a space for me in relationship with math. And that really excites me.

Dan Meyer (39:09):

Yeah. Wow. Listen to that folks. We, we don’t deserve her! Bethany Lockhart Johnson! She got some math game and could have gone off there and, you know, become an accountant or something. And she chose to hang with kids and their parents. That’s so wild that you’re like rehabbing parents and their self-conception about mathematics at the same time. I think that is so cool.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:32):

Well, thanks Dan Meyer. I gotta tell you, I don’t know when or if I’ve ever shared that much of my math story. So there is a certain amount of vulnerability there. But thanks for listening. And I’m glad that, you know—I think there’s space for us to talk about these things that we care deeply about, but that can be really complicated.

Dan Meyer (39:56):

Yes. Yes. And I love how you you’ve really sharpened the point on what I feel like I know in my brain, but not my body all the time: That individual teachers are huge. Like, individual teachers, and individual moments of teaching, are just not something to play with. You know, like that kid that’s in fifth grade having a tough time, like there could be a month or a day-long period where all of a sudden, like, you’re just like, “Oh yeah, I’m back in the mix; like, me and math are still buddies.” And there’s also like moments that you had, where like one casual word from a teacher can just really put a huge wedge between you and a discipline that needs and wants you and your intellect in it.That’s a really powerful testimonial. Not just for math, but for teaching, your teaching bio.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:43):

I agree with you. And I also, I also…you know, I think we can’t put this—we are human. Teachers are human. And so I’m sure there’s things I’ve said to students. Twenty-second story: a student stapled his finger in my class. <Laugh> And I remember holding his hand and saying, “Why did you do that?” And I wasn’t yelling at him, but it was like, I am sure the panic in my face…like, that’s what he’s gonna remember about kindergarten. Right? <Laugh>.

Dan Meyer (41:19):

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:20):

That. He will remember that. He won’t remember the really cool city project we did. He’s gonna remember his teacher holding his hand, in his face: “Why did you do that?”

Dan Meyer (41:30):

Yeah. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:30):

You know, so we’re human. And yes, it was awful that that teacher said that to me. There were a thousand other ways that he could have said whatever it was he was thinking. And that did deeply wound me. But despite his influence—because teachers do have a lot of power and I think they need to examine that power, ongoing—it still doesn’t have to define us. So I don’t wanna put this pressure, like—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:55):

Sure.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:56):

“So never ever say anything negative!” You know, we’re human.

Dan Meyer (42:00):

I feel like that kid is currently on some office-supply podcast talking about “your office-supply bio” and saying, “Let me tell you how I first got really freaked out by staples. Here’s the deal: I only use paper clips. And here’s why.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:15):

“Here’s why.” But then—callback!—he’s going to stumble upon THIS podcast and think, “And because I’m so adept with paper clips, I can beat that record!”

Dan Meyer (42:30):

Though—aaay! whoa! Settle down!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:31):

BOOM.

Dan Meyer (42:31):

Don’t get any ideas, kid. No way. Uh-uh. I don’t like that at all. That’s not what—that’s not what I want to have happen here. No, thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:41):

Well, I’m spent, Dan. I need a nap.

Dan Meyer (42:45):

Yeah. I need a box of Kleenex. I need a nap. I need a—yeah, for sure, a baba. Uh-huh. Definitely. Hey, so look, I’m not expecting you folks out there in the lounge to kind of give us the same depth or breadth. You know, we are here, of course, for your entertainment. Feast on our stories and dramas. But I would love to know at some point, like, what are a few, a few moments that really came to define you mathematically? Came to influence you as a teacher? I think we would do really well for each other to understand that about all of our processes. So yeah, I would just toss in a plug in for Twitter, @MTLShow, or Facebook, Math Teacher Lounge; it would be fantastic to hear from you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:24):

Thanks so much for listening.

Dan Meyer (43:25):

Thanks, folks. Bye now.

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What Dan Meyer says about math teaching

“Teaching, more than other professions, is a generational profession. The kinds of joyful experiences we offer, or don’t offer, now affect the experiences students that haven’t even been born yet will have years later.”

– Dan Meyer

Meet the guests

Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer taught high school math to students who didn’t like high school math. He has advocated for better math instruction on CNN, Good Morning America, Everyday With Rachel Ray, and TED.com. He earned his doctorate from Stanford University in math education and is currently the Dean of Research at Desmos, where he explores the future of math, technology, and learning. Dan has worked with teachers internationally and in all 50 United States and was named one of Tech & Learning’s 30 Leaders of the Future.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Bethany Lockhart Johnson is an elementary school educator and author. Prior to serving as a multiple-subject teacher, she taught theater and dance and now loves incorporating movement and creative play into her classroom. Bethany is committed to helping students find joy in discovering their identities as mathematicians. In addition to her role as a full-time classroom teacher, Bethany is a Student Achievement Partners California Core Advocate and is active in national and local mathematics organizations. Bethany is a member of the Illustrative Mathematics Elementary Curriculum Steering Committee and serves as a consultant, creating materials to support families during distance learning.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S3-05: Thinking is power

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Join us as we sit down with Melanie Trecek-King, college professor and creator of Thinking is Power, to explore how much of an asset science can truly be in developing the skills students need to navigate the real world. You’ll learn about “fooling” students and the importance of developing critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy in the classroom. We’ll also share real strategies and lesson examples that help build these essential skills and engage students in learning.

And don’t forget to grab your Science Connections study guide to track your learning and find additional resources!

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Trecek-King (00:00):

We say knowledge is power, but it’s not enough to know things. And there’s too much to know. So being able to think and not fall for someone’s bunk is my goal for my students.

Eric Cross (00:12):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. On this third season, we’ve been talking about science’s underdog status. And just this past March at the NSTA conference in Atlanta, I had the chance to speak with science educators from around the country about this very topic.

Hermia Simanu (00:28):

Right now, there’s only two teachers in our high school teaching science.

Shane Dongilli (00:32):

I have 45 minutes once a week with each class. The focus is reading and math.

Alexis Tharpe (00:38):

Oftentimes science gets put by the wayside. And you know, I love math and I love my language arts, but I also think science needs to place be placed on that high pedestal as well.

Askia Little (00:46):

In fifth grade, oh, they teach science, because that’s the only grade that it’s tested.

Eric Cross (00:50):

That was Hermia Simanu from American Samoa. Her team flew for three days to make it to the conference. You also heard from Shane Dongilli from North Carolina, Alexis Tharpe from Virginia, and Askia Little from Texas. All of these teachers were excited to be at the conference and had a lot to say about the state of science education in their local schools. Throughout this season, we’ve been trying to make the case for science, showing how science can be utilized more effectively in the classroom. We’ve explored the evidence showing that science supports literacy instruction. We’ve talked about science and the responsible use of technology like AI. My hope is that all of you listeners out there can use some of this evidence to feel empowered to make the case for science in your own communities. And on this episode, we’re going to examine how science can help develop what might be the most important skill that we try to develop in our students: Good thinking. On this episode, I’m joined by a biologist who actually advocated for eliminating the Intro to Bio course at her college. Instead, Professor Trecek-King created a new course focused on critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy skills. In this conversation, we discuss why the science classroom is such a good environment for helping students become better thinkers. Now, I don’t think that you can make a much stronger argument for science than using it to develop the skills that Melanie describes in this conversation. So, without further ado, I’m thrilled to bring you this conversation with Melanie Trecek-King, Associate Professor of Biology at Massasoit Community College, and creator of Thinking Is Power. Here’s Melanie.

Eric Cross (02:29):

Well, Melanie, thank you for joining us on the show. It’s so good to have you.

Melanie Trecek-King (02:34):

I am so happy to be here.

Eric Cross (02:35):

Now, I went to your session at NSTA in Chicago … I think it was two years ago. A couple years ago. And I was listening to your session, and as I was listening to you, I started Reverse Engineering in my mind what you were doing with your college students. I started reverse engineering the K–8. I was like, “This is amazing.” Where has what you’ve been doing been hiding? We need this not just in the college, higher ed. We need this all the way up and down. Because I hadn’t seen it before. So I think a good place for us to start is gonna be like the story of how and why you as a biologist wound up making the case to actually eliminate the Intro to Biology course at your college. So can you start off and tell us a little bit about that story?

Melanie Trecek-King (03:20):

Sure. So I started teaching at a community college in Massachusetts. And I absolutely love teaching at a community college. And I was teaching the courses that people who don’t wanna be scientists when they grow up have to take to fulfill their science requirement. And that course was Intro Bio. And I tried every way I could figure out to make that class be useful,] relevant to students. I mean, the thing is, our world is based on science and you have to understand science to be a good consumer of information, to make good decisions. And I’m a biologist, so it pains me to say this, but you know, somewhere in the middle of teaching students about the stages of mitosis and protein synthesis, I thought, “Is this really — like, if I have one semester that’s gonna be the last chance that someone’s gonna get a science education, is this really what they need?” And I just decided, “No.” So, to my college’s credit, they were very supportive. I went to them and said, “You know, I think we should assess the non-majors courses. Like, why do we teach non-majors science?” And we all agreed, well, it was for science literacy. OK, great. Do our existing non-majors courses do that? And so we evaluated each of the courses. I made a case that Intro Bio was not doing it. And so we actually replaced it with a course that I call Science for Life. And the whole course is designed to teach science literacy, critical thinking, and information literacy skills.

Eric Cross (04:48):

And so you did this while you were looking at mitosis. And you’re looking at students who may or may not be science majors. And then kind of asking that question. I know every educator asks this, and whether or not it’s welcomed or supported is a different question: “Is what I’m teaching actually gonna be relevant and useful later on down the road for this group of students?” And you actually got to run with it and then create this course, this new course. So, what were the skills that you were hoping to achieve with the new course you developed, and and why were those skills so important?

Melanie Trecek-King (05:21):

Well, if I just go back for a second to what you said, ’cause it, really hit me: I remember the actual moment — it had been building up to that point, but the actual moment that it hit me — I was teaching students the stages of mitosis. And I was applying it to cancer, because the thought is that if we use issues that are relevant to students to teach concepts, that it will be more meaningful to them. They’ll learn it better; they’ll be able to apply it. And they just looked absolutely deflated. They didn’t wanna be there. And I had this moment where I thought, “You know, if, if these students ever have cancer somewhere in their lives, is what I taught them going to be something that they remember? Is it going to be useful to them?” And quite frankly, like, no. <Laugh> They’re not gonna remember proto-oncogenes. And quite frankly, is that really what they need to know at that moment? What they need to know is, “What does this mean? Who is a reliable source of information here? If these treatments are recommended, what is the evidence for them? What are the cost-benefit analyses? Where do I go to find reliable information?” And in that space, cancer in particular, we have this whole field of — I wanna say charlatans, ’cause they may not actually be lying, but they’re pedaling false cures, false hopes. And people need that kind of hope, and so in their time of need, they’re more likely to fall for that kind of thing. Which leads me to the skills that I teach students. I call them this tree of skills. And the order is important. I start — and there’s a lot of overlap to be fair — but critical thinking, and then information literacy, and science literacy. The idea is that students carry in their pockets access to basically all of human’s knowledge at this moment in time. And if they needed to access it, they could. The question is, do they know what they’re looking for? Are they aware of their own biases that are leading them to certain sources, or certain false hopes? Are there certain things that are making them more vulnerable to the people that might prey on them? Are they able to use that information to make good decisions? There’s a great Carl Sagan quote, and it’s something like, “If we teach people only the findings of science, no matter how useful or even inspiring they may be, without communicating the method, then how is anyone to be able to tell the difference between science and pseudoscience?” So yes, the process of science is a process of critical thinking. However, we do tend to present science most of the time. Like, here’s what science has learned. And to be fair, those things that we’ve learned from science are really useful and inspiring. But if we don’t teach the process, so you’ve got somebody now who let’s say has been diagnosed with cancer and is on their phone and they’re scrolling through social media and everything looks the same. And of course the algorithms learn who you are. Next thing you know, there’s all of these like pseudo-treatments popping up. It all looks the same. Somebody who says that acupuncture can be used to cure cancer can feel the same, from someone who doesn’t understand the process of science, as a medical fact. And so the process is the process of critical thinking. My class everything is open note. The quizzes are open note. The exams — and I say open note, they’re also open online, because I know for the rest of their life they’re gonna have resources available to them; I want them to be good consumers with that information, which to me requires metacognition and critical thinking and information literacy and all those skills that I’m trying to teach them.

Eric Cross (08:58):

You’re basically taking what … we’ve taught science for so long. And more recently, it’s changed to more focusing on skills. At least in K through 12. But a lot of it was just memorization of a ton of different things that now we can pull up our phone, go on the internet. You can pull up a lot of those facts. But those facts don’t necessarily translate to actual real-world skills. When I listen to… I kind of make this analogy sometimes: students say … it’s funny, I have 12-year-olds that say this. They go, “How come they don’t teach us how to do our taxes?” And you know they’re regurgitating what they hear from adults, right? “Teach us real-world skills!” And I was like, really, if we taught you right now how to do your taxes, how many of you would really be like, “Oh, this is an awesome lesson! We’re really engaged!” But their point is that “I wanna learn something that I could actually use later on, that’s that I’m gonna carry on.” And in your course, you’re talking about these skills that actually can apply. Like you said, if I had cancer and I’m looking at different types of medical procedures, do I have the skills to really be able to evaluate and make informed decisions on that? And that’s, that’s not something that I’ve seen explicitly taught really anywhere. And I hadn’t heard anybody talk about it, really, until I heard your session, where you’ve kind of unpacked this, and over the last couple of years, have created some programs or resources for educators, where they can take this into their classroom. So what were some of those skills, again? What were were some of the skills that you thought, “I wanna make sure that my students can walk out and they know how to do this and apply it to maybe several different fields”?

Melanie Trecek-King (10:35):

Oh, that’s a really good question. Because the whole thing was a process for me. Like, when I finally let go of Intro Bio, I was so glad to see that class go, by the way. ‘Cause I just felt like I was beating a dead horse. So when I let go of it, I thought, “What do they need instead?” And for me, what I realized was I was trying to make the class I would’ve wanted to take. I realized the things that I personally didn’t know, that my own education maybe let me down a bit. But things that I thought were important. So then I took all of those, synthesized them, tried to figure out the best order. The class is currently in its third iteration. And I hope every iteration is an improvement. But I’m thinking about the students that I taught before the pandemic. It was Intro Bio. Up to just maybe the couple years before the pandemic, and during the pandemic, we had a new virus and we had a new vaccine and we had new treatments. There was hydroxychloroquine and there was ivermectin and then there’s masks. Are masks effective? Well, you know, in what circumstances? What kind of mask? There are all of these questions. And that whole thing was we saw science playing out in real time.

Eric Cross (11:50):

Absolutely.

Melanie Trecek-King (11:51):

And so were my students able to follow that? And then what happened in that process is that science became politicized. And in a time where things are uncertain and we need answers, ’cause it’s scary, people want certainty and science doesn’t tend to provide that. Especially when it’s just starting out. And then when it becomes politicized, people decide that they’re going to — it’s not necessarily a conscious decision — but they retreat into what people in their camps are saying or their groups are saying. Which actually leads me to one of the more important parts of information literacy skills in there, which is most of our knowledge is shared. We tend to have overinflated senses of what we individually know. And studies actually show that with Google, if you have access to Google, you think you’re smarter than if you don’t have access to Google. But we all have access to knowledge in our communities, and that’s one of the reasons humans are so successful, is that we can each specialize in different things and share our expertise and become greater than the sum of our parts. The problem with that, of course, is that we forget what we don’t know, and we assume that we know what the community knows. And so recognizing the limits of your own knowledge and how different communities produce knowledge, like the different epistemic processes that communities use to come to knowledge. When it comes down to it, an important part of knowing is knowing who to trust, right? Knowing where the source of knowledge lives. And in order to do that, you have to understand the processes that they’re using to come to that knowledge and the limits of your own knowledge. And then how to find who has that knowledge so that you can use that to make better decisions.

Eric Cross (13:38):

So, when I hear what you’re doing with your college students, and I think about what I’m doing in the classroom, in the middle school, we are really focusing on literacy as skills. Reading, writing, speaking, listening. And then when I think of the next step of the journey, your information literacy and the literacy you’re teaching is really the application of those things in the real world. And the examples that you gave are very critical examples. Evaluating claims about Covid. Making informed decisions about a medical procedure that you might need. And we all get that applied to us. We’re scrolling through social media and somehow social media is listening. It’s figuring out exactly what I’m doing, because all of a sudden the ads are telling me … how did you know I was alking about KitchenAid mixers now? I just said KitchenAid mixers and it’s gonna show up in my feed! But <laugh> I take that in the same way from the same place that I take in maybe an oncologist. So it’s it’s coming through the same channels. So now I kind of wanna pivot. So we’ve talked about what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, the connection between “am I really teaching the skills that my students need in the science class? Is it really critical thinking explicitly or is it just kind of implied?” Now I wanna ask you how you do it. What’s the annotated, abbreviated kind of syllabus of your course?

Melanie Trecek-King (15:03):

So the course is called Science for Life. And the premise behind it is the kinds of skills and understanding of the process of science that they would need to make good decisions to be empowered in a world based on science. And so the very first lecture, I say, “OK, I’m gonna tell you a story and I just want you to listen to the story. And at the end I’m gonna ask you why I told the story.” And the story that I tell them is some of the history of the witchcraft trials in Europe. And I start with the Malleus Maleficarum, or the Hammer of Witches, from the Pope, and about how people would accuse witches of causing birth defects or storms or crops dying. And, the best evidence that they had to absolutely know somebody was a witch was if somebody accused them, and then if they were accused, if they confessed. OK? But the problem is, to get them to confess, they would torture them. Roasting over coals, or splitting until somebody broke. And so I tell my students, “OK, this was absolute proof that someone was guilty of witchcraft. I don’t know about you; I would confess to anything, right? Make it stop!” So this is where I get to ask students, “Why would I ask you this? Why would I tell you this story? And traumatize you on the very first day of lecture?” And they see the reasoning, right? They thought they had evidence. The question was, is that good evidence? And so, you know, I’m getting students to have a basic understanding of epistemology, right? Without calling it that, or without going into all of the philosophical background of epistemology. Apply this to your own reasoning. What are you wrong about? Well, you probably wouldn’t know. OK, how would you know if you were wrong? Like what kinds of things do you feel that you’re so right about? How good is your evidence for that? So what I want them to do is internalize the thinking about thinking, and analyzing how they come to conclusions, and proportioning how strongly they believe. Their confidence in how right they are. So I think starting with that kind of misinformation, and getting students to internalize that process is important. But I think the example is really useful, because most of my students don’t believe in witchcraft. Right? So it’s not an issue that would immediately threaten them in some way. So when, when a belief is tied to identity or how we see ourselves or is really important to us, then it’s very difficult to be objective about that belief. And so by starting with witchcraft, it’s not triggering. I get them to think about thinking and practice that muscle so that when we get to those more important issues, they have the skills they need to evaluate them.

Eric Cross (17:55):

So would it be fair to say that your Science for Life class is really applied scientific thinking for the real world?

Melanie Trecek-King (18:01):

Absolutely. That’s the idea. I mean, science is too good to keep to ourselves, right? And it’s everywhere. So how can you understand the world through a scientific lens?

Eric Cross (18:10):

What are the nuts and bolts of how you teach your students these strategies? What do you do? What are some strategies and techniques that we can maybe share with listeners? And then where I want to go after that is I wanna ask you, how early do you think this can be started? So lemme start off first with, what do you do?

Melanie Trecek-King (18:28):

So I use three different strategies. One is, I provide students with a toolkit. And the toolkit is one that I created and it is like my one toolkit to rule them all. It is trying to apply critical thinking and science reasoning all together in one place. So that if students are met with a claim, they’ve got the toolkit with an acronym. They can now start and have somewhere to go. In that if I gave you a claim and said, “Just critically think through this claim,” I mean, that’s a mighty task. But if you have a structured toolkit, then it’s hopefully a systemic way that’s helpful. The toolkit is summarized by FLOATER. I have published it on Skeptical Inquirer. It’s free. So it’s Falsifiability, Logical, Objectivity, Alternative Explanations, Tentative Conclusions, Evidence, and Reproducibility. So I provide students with a toolkit. The next thing I do is I use a lot of misinformation in class. Back to what Carl Sagan says: What I heard was we should use pseudoscience to teach students the difference between a pseudo-scientific process and a scientific process. So, I use science denial, conspiracy theories, and give my students a lot of opportunities to practice evaluating claims with the toolkit. And the other thing I do is, I use inoculation activities. So inoculation theory is based on William McGuire’s original research in the ’60s, which is basically like a vaccine analogy. Where you can inject a small amount of a virus or bacterium into the body, so that it creates an immune response, so that it can learn the real thing. And so in the real world, it can fight it off. Inoculation theory does the same thing, but with misinformation. So, what we can do is, in controlled environments, expose students to little bits of misinformation so that they can recognize it in the real world. There’s different kinds of inoculation, but I’m a big fan of what’s called active and technique-based inoculation. So technique-based means that students are learning not the facts of misinformation, not factually why this thing is wrong, but about the technique used to deceive. So maybe the use of fake experts. Or maybe the use of anecdotes. Or the use of logical fallacies. The other part of that is active, which is where students create the misinformation. So for example, my students, just now, we finished covering pseudoscience. And I teach students the characteristics of pseudoscience. And basically we have fun with it. Where they pretend to be grifters and they sell a pseudoscience product. And so they have to make an ad like they’d see on social media, using the different techniques. And the point there is that it’s supposed to be funny, right? And lighthearted. But in a real way, by using the techniques used to sell something like pseudoscience, it’s opening their eyes. You can’t unsee how every alternative product has, “it’s an all-natural and used for centuries and millions use it and look at this person who says, ‘Wow, it worked for me!’ And it’s certified by some society that doesn’t exist, but this doctor behind it says that it’s really great!” I mean, it’s all the same stuff. So they create the misinformation using their own techniques.

Eric Cross (22:02):

That’s one of my favorite things that you’ve talked about, and I want to dive in that a little bit more. But when you’re teaching the toolkit, FLOATER, what does that look like in the classroom, when you’re actually breaking all of those things down? What does it look like as you’re walking your students through this, and you’re kind of coaching them on all of those different things? ‘Cause I feel like some things might be like, “Oh yeah, I got that.” And then some of them might be, “Oh, what is that?”

Melanie Trecek-King (22:24):

Yeah, it takes me probably a good solid lecture to get through the basis of the toolkit. But then over the rest of the semester, I’ll spend more time going into different parts, different rules, a bit more in-depth. So, for example, logical fallacies and objectivity. So the rule of objectivity basically states that you need to be honest with yourself. I’m gonna quote Feynman here, so: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.” We don’t tend to think that we can be fooled. But of course we can. So actually, if you wanna talk about it, I start class by fooling my students.

Eric Cross (23:03):

Wait, what do you do? What do you do for that?

Melanie Trecek-King (23:05):

Oh, so this is really fun. Day 1 of class, after the syllabus, I tell my … so you’re in my class now, Eric. “So I have a friend, and she’s a psychic. She’s an astrologer and she’s pretty good at what she does. I mean, she’s got books and she’s been on TV and stuff. She knows I teach this course about skepticism. And so she’s agreed to test how effective she is by providing personality assessments to students in class. So if you wanna participate, what I need from you is your birthday, your full name, answer a few questions. Like, if your house was on fire and you could take one thing, what would it be? Or if you could get paid for anything to do anything for a living, what would it be? Um, there’s a third one. Oh! If you could have any superpower, what would it be?” So the next class, it’s usually over a weekend. The next class I say, “OK, I’ve got your personality assessments back, but remember, we wanna test how effective she is. So in order to do that, I need you to read your profile as quietly as possible. And then I’m gonna have you rate her accuracy on a scale of 1 to 5. OK? So close your eyes; rate her.” Over the years doing this, it’s about a 4.3 to 4.5 out of 5. They think she’s pretty accurate. OK? “So now, if you feel comfortable, get with a person next to you. And I want you to talk about what parts of the personality assessment really spoke to you and, and why, and why you thought she was accurate or not.” And it takes them 5, 10 minutes before they realize they all got the same one. So, this is not my original experiment. It was first done by Bertram Forer in … I think it was the ’50s. And it’s done in psychology classrooms. James Randi made it famous. But the personality assessment itself is full of what are called Barnum statements. So, named after P.T. Barnum. These are statements that are very generic. So, “You have a need to be liked and admired by people. You are often quiet and reserved, but there are times where you can be the life of the party.”

Eric Cross (25:13):

How do you know this about me, by the way? This is a — I feel like you know me right now.

Melanie Trecek-King (25:17):

“There are times where you’ve wondered whether you’ve done the right thing.”

Eric Cross (25:19):

This is getting weird.

Melanie Trecek-King (25:21):

I’m just on fire, right? So these are Barnum statements. They’re the basis of personality assessment.

Eric Cross (25:29):

Mel, can I pause you right there? You said Barnum. Is that the same Barnum, like Barnum & Bailey Circus?

Melanie Trecek-King (25:34):

Yeah. P.T. Barnum, who didn’t actually say “There’s a sucker born every minute,” but we attribute him with that kind of ethos. These statements though, if you read a horoscope or even like personality indicators, like the MBTI, it is basically pseudo-scientific. And it ends up with lots of these Barnum statements. They produce what’s called the Barnum Effect, which is, “Wow, that’s so me! How did you know me?” I could even do more. Like, you have a box of photos in your house that need to be sorted. Or unused prescriptions. And these can apply to nearly everyone, but they produce this effect where we go, “Wow, that is so me!” Right? So by fooling them this way, I get to … well, so the next thing is, “Yes, I lied to you. And I’d like to tell you I won’t do that again. But I’m not going to, ’cause I might. So be on your guard.” But I did it for free. And why did I do it? “I did it because I could tell you ‘I could fool you,’ but you wouldn’t necessarily believe me. So I fooled you, so that you would learn what it feels like to be fooled.” It’s not fun. But we’re gonna make a joke outta this. And students are almost never upset about this ’cause it’s a fun process and they’re all fooled. And again, the point is, I didn’t disprove psychic powers. I didn’t just disprove psychics with this exercise. But I did show you how easy it was to fake. So if somebody is gonna tell you that they can know these things about you through some way, hopefully the evidence they provide should be stronger than something that’s easily faked. Right? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim to be able to read my personality based on my birthdate, then I need more than something that you can be taught to do in 15 minutes. So, I fool them to convince them that they could be fooled.

Eric Cross (27:27):

You’re giving them a practice scenario for thinking. And I was thinking about basketball. I grew up playing basketball. And my coach would have our own team be the defenders of the next team we were gonna play, so that we can be prepared for the defense. We were gonna see. Now, when I’m thinking about education, and what you just said reminded me of this, it’s like we’re often just teaching offense. We’re always teaching the plays. We’re always teaching what to do. But we rarely teach defense. What happens when someone comes towards you and, and they challenge you or they come at you with claims? How do we evaluate this? And I think in pockets we do it. We do claim-evidence-reasoning. We present claims and evidence and reasoning. But we don’t always have practice defending them. And I think there’s great resources. There’s Argumentation Toolkit and there’s all these awesome resources that do this. But does that fit? You’re kind of having them practice defense?

Melanie Trecek-King (28:26):

Yeah. You know, that’s brilliant. I never considered that analogy. But, yeah, in the real world, you don’t just get to always try to score all the time. Someone’s gonna challenge you and give you a claim that maybe you haven’t heard before. So how do you think through it?

Eric Cross (28:41):

Yeah. And you become better. So now I’m thinking about how early could we start doing this? For one, I love the idea of lying to your students, because I do that. And it’s just such a fun scenario. How early could we start implementing these strategies or these ideas or these toolkits? In your mind, what do you imagine? How early could we start this with young people?

Melanie Trecek-King (29:07):

Yeah. I’m so glad you asked that question, ’cause honestly, by the time they get to me, it’s almost too late. And I don’t wanna say it’s too late, ’cause it’s never too late. But, oh, we need to start so much earlier! That example that I gave about the selling pseudoscience argument? I have a wonderful colleague, Bertha Vasquez, who’s a middle school teacher in Miami and the director of TIES at CFI. She did this with her middle school students. And quite frankly, their examples were just as good, or in some cases better, than my college students. And they had so much fun with it, too. And she just said that, you know, <laugh>, they actually are more savvy with the kinds of things that they see online than we — I don’t wanna say give them credit for. But almost that we want to believe. My students give me examples of things that are from corners of the internet that I didn’t know existed. And quite frankly, that’s probably a good thing for my own mental health. But students are on there too, like middle school students, and we need to prepare them for the kinds of things that they see in the wild.

Eric Cross (30:13):

So in middle school, definitely. Now, you’ve also done some work in high school as well, right? In Oklahoma? Did you do some. …?

Melanie Trecek-King (30:17):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (30:18):

…some work with high schoolers? What was that like? Did you see any impact there?

Melanie Trecek-King (30:21):

So I didn’t actually do it in Oklahoma. I have taught the course … actually, you were talking about younger kids. I’ve taught the course to high schoolers in my area that are parts of dual enrollment. And they absolutely ate up the curriculum. And they were wonderful, wonderful students. And it was completely appropriate for … they were juniors, actually. But the course has also been taught in Oklahoma, through a dual enrollment program as well. And it was a small sample size. But we have pre-post testing that showed that it improved their critical thinking, their acceptance of science. But anecdotally the head of the program there said that in his years doing this, he’d never seen a course that helped them improve in their other courses so well. So, I felt very rewarded by hearing this. But apparently their critical thinking skills and information literacy skills helped them succeed in their other courses that they were taking. And I love that the students were transferring those skills to other classes. That’s the whole point.

Eric Cross (31:23):

And that’s a big … I think that what you just said is really the core, especially of what we’ve been talking about this season: What you’re talking about and what you’re teaching can transfer and supports literacy. And this is an example of science doing that across all other content areas. So I think that that’s huge, that that was said. What do people say about this course? I know I went on your website, and I looked at some of the comments that some folks were saying, and I know it’s just a snippet, but what do you hear from the education world about this? Because I don’t see it in many places. I see it kind of embedded, sprinkled into different content areas. But you’re actually teaching it explicitly. Do you tend to find positive feedback, overwhelmingly? Or do you get pushback on on some of this? What’s it been like for you?

Melanie Trecek-King (32:16):

I think the biggest pushback — and it’s good pushback, and I would agree entirely — is with inoculation activities, you do need to be careful to, when you debrief students, you wanna tell them why you did what you did and to use their powers for good and not for fooling other people. And I think importantly, for not putting misinformation out into the wild without having context around it. So if you do these kinds of inoculation activities, like if you have your students create pseudoscience ads, don’t just let them put them on social media. Obviously, you can’t control everything that they’re doing. But explain to them why you wouldn’t wanna do that. As far as everything else, I’ve heard really great feedback. You’re referencing my website. So, when I put together the course, I was trying to find resources for students to read. Textbooks are ridiculously expensive and I couldn’t find anything that I really wanted students to buy. So I just started writing, and I put it on my site. I have a site that’s basically the core of the curriculum. More in progress. And then I’ve got some of the topics that we explore and those are all assigned readings. My students are captive, in that I know they want a grade, and for four months they have to sit with me for the entire semester, in that I’ve specifically ordered the content in a way that would be most conducive to them learning these things. On the internet, though, and on social media, ’cause I post on there as well, people come in from all kinds of entry points, and so the goal would be to have them start at the beginning and go to the end. But people … I’m pleasantly surprised that there is an audience for critical thinking and science literacy content out there. And so that really warms my heart. But I am doing more and more for educators. And so I have a section for educators. I put content on there. I put assignments, the assignments that we’ve talked about and more, are on there. And the educators that I’ve had use it have just been really wonderful. Like, I hear great things. If I might, the biggest issue that I’m having is actually reaching educators. I’ve gone to — I met you at NSCA, actually, that was only last summer.

Eric Cross (34:30):

Oh, wow. Wow.

Melanie Trecek-King (34:32):

Right?

Eric Cross (34:32):

Yeah, you’re right. It wasn’t even a year.

Melanie Trecek-King (34:35):

Yeah, I think it was like July last year. So, um, you’ve been to the conferences. And I just went to the last one as well. But I have yet to figure out a way to really get in front of enough educators to share the content. So if anybody’s listening and is interested in learning more, please let me know! <Laugh>

Eric Cross (34:52):

Yes. And we talked about your website, but I didn’t say what the website was. So it’s ThinkingIsPower.com.

Melanie Trecek-King (34:57):

Yes.

Eric Cross (34:58):

And on there, there’s tons of resources. There is the toolkit. And it’s all free.

Melanie Trecek-King (35:06):

Yes.

Eric Cross (35:07):

And there’s a dope t-shirt on there that I just bought today, that Melanie’s actually wearing right now. It says, “Be curious, be skeptical, and be humble.” And I love that. Because I think one of the things that we can’t forget about teaching people how to think and critically evaluating information, sometimes those conversations can become very dehumanizing. And what I mean by that is it sometimes can become, like, intellectual sport, where we forget that there’s a human being on the other other side. And we lose that empathy and compassion. We can kind of see that. It just becomes this intellectual jousting and arguing. And one of the things I know about you, and when you talk about this or you talk about the work that you do, and even the shirt that you’re wearing, there’s this, “be humble.” There’s this human that is never lost in this. And you said it, too: When you’re teaching your students and you’re equipping them with all of these intellectual skills and all of these tools, to use it for good. So to maintain your humanity, to maintain your character, and then to use it to edify and lift people up, not to go out and do harm. That balance, I think, is so, so important. So it’s something that I really appreciate about you and how you teach.

Melanie Trecek-King (36:19):

I appreciate those kind words. Actually—

Eric Cross (36:21):

Oh, of course!

Melanie Trecek-King (36:22):

—and if I might, I sometimes see people using critical thinking like a weapon. It’s like, “I have learned fallacies and I’m just gonna use the tools of critical thinking to tell you why you’re stupid, or why you’re wrong, and why my position is right!” But real critical thinking involves applying those same standards to your own thought processes. And even something like argumentation: the goal of our argumentation is not to BE right; it’s to GET it right. And so we’re on the same team. If we’re arguing about something, if the idea is in scientific argumentation we’re trying to find the truth, which one of us is making a better argument based on the evidence? Can your perspective help me see my own blind spots and vice versa? And the more different perspectives that we have, the more able we are to find whatever reality is. But we are in this together. And so, yeah, I think … I’m glad to hear that that’s coming through. But if you don’t have the kind of humility that says, “You know, I could be wrong,” then you’re never gonna change your mind anyway. So having the humility to say, I’m wrong. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (37:33):

Yeah. You end up just seeing people just defend turf, as opposed to support “look for truth.” And I know for me, my own education journey, I end up with more questions than answers anyways. So I go in trying to find an answer for something and I end up with 10 more questions. And I go, “OK, this is kind of how it is.” You go down this rabbit hole and you just end up with all these different questions. And it forces the humility, because you’re like, “I don’t know! I think this is what it could be, but it could also be these other answers or explanations. So this is just where I’m at, based on what we know right now, at this present time, which might shift.”

Melanie Trecek-King (38:07):

And that sounds reasonable. Yes. Which might shift. Yes.

Eric Cross (38:11):

And especially for us as life-science biology teachers, our content is something that definitely shifts. I know some of the things I teach now are not things that I learned when I was even in middle school. Just because things evolve. They change. We learn, we get new data. That’s just the way it is.

Melanie Trecek-King (38:24):

<Sighs> And Pluto is no longer a planet.

Eric Cross (38:26):

I know. Rest in — well, no, Pluto’s still there. Yeah. It’s no longer a planet. But that was one part of my kindergarten memorizations <laugh> is Pluto being in there.

Melanie Trecek-King (38:36):

Gotta change your mind.

Eric Cross (38:38):

I know. Any words of advice for science educators out there who want to focus more on honing these critical thinking skills and strategies with their own students, but they don’t know where to start? Where would you point them? Or what advice would you give them?

Melanie Trecek-King (38:52):

I think start with what you want the students to know. And not necessarily the FACTS that you want students to know, but start with the skills that you want them to know. And then really be honest with your process. When I designed Science for Life, I started with, “these are the skills that I want students to know.” And everything was in service of that. So this sort of backwards design, I think, helped me follow a path that was more likely to be useful, if that makes any sense. But it really required doing it all over again. So don’t be afraid to question the things that you’re currently doing, even if that’s all you’ve been taught or all you know.

Eric Cross (39:41):

What I’m hearing is, don’t be afraid to question your own assumptions about what you’re doing. And don’t be afraid to adapt or change or modify. Kinda, pivot. Be flexible.

Melanie Trecek-King (39:51):

Yes, be flexible and pivot. And this is where I’m in a different position than middle school and high school educators. Because I have complete freedom over what I teach in my class.

Eric Cross (40:01):

Sure.

Melanie Trecek-King (40:01):

At the end of the semester, I always joke with non-majors that there’s nothing they have to know, which actually gives me a lot of flexibility, because I could teach ’em a lot of different things. So if there are things that you have to teach students, obviously that’s one thing. But I personally think that the way that we’ve been teaching science needs a refresher. A rethinking. And so I would say, “If you want your students to learn science literacy, honestly ask, what does that mean to you? And what would that look like to get to that point?” For me, though, it was also keeping in mind that maybe I didn’t already know the best way to do that.

Eric Cross (40:43):

One of the things you mentioned earlier is trying to reach out to educators. And I know that when we work together, it’s a force multiplier. And what you’re doing is developing skills. And there’s these skills that are happening right now in academia that you’re doing. And then how do we transfer that into middle and high school. Or, I’m sorry, middle and elementary school, high school. We need to get more people into this conversation to kind of brainstorm and figure that out. We have a Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community, where we have educators that gather. That can be one place we start the conversation. And again, I know on your website you’ve been super active on social media; you’ve grown your presence on Twitter and all these different places, engaging with folks. Which is awesome. ‘Cause I know I see your posts and I’m saving the things that you’re posting and I’m thinking of ways that I can do it in my classroom. I’m gonna take that product. By the way, is that on your website, the lesson that you do with the product?

Melanie Trecek-King (41:43):

No, actually. So the article, “How to Sell Pseudoscience” is … I know Bertha Vasquez wrote up a version of it.

Eric Cross (41:50):

Maybe we can grab that. ‘Cause we might be able to put that into the show notes for folks, because she’s a middle school educator. If there’s already something that’s been done for teachers like us, we’re like, “Yeah, let me get that and let me remix it and make it my own!” if there’s already a exemplar out there.

Melanie Trecek-King (42:04):

Yeah, she’s done it. And so I will absolutely share that with you.

Eric Cross (42:08):

So, all season long, we’ve been talking about science as the underdog. We kind of framed it, you know, science oftentimes takes a back seat to math and English. It’s kinda the first thing to go. Or the first area where time can get cut. Because of what gets tested gets focused on, oftentimes. And then in addition to that, when you’re a multi-subject teacher, elementary science isn’t just one thing — it’s every field. You know, you’re a biologist, which is different than a geologist. And when you’re teaching every subject, that’s a lot. And you might not have had a science class for years. And the realities that we’re seeing over and over with different researchers and practitioners is that science could actually enhance literacy, and building those skills. And I think you really talked about it with the critical thinking skills. Those can transfer. Or the administrator that said, “This is one of the only courses I’ve seen where it transfers to other areas.” Could you share maybe with our listeners, just any advice for advocating for science in their own world?

Melanie Trecek-King (43:13):

Wow, I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer that question! One of the things that comes to mind though — because I was listening to your last episode and educators … I honestly didn’t realize how little time they had for science. And how often science was then the first to go, to allow room for other subjects. But science overlaps with a lot of other issues. And so I feel like there could be a way to bring in science when teaching these other subjects. So, for example, argumentation and logical fallacies are easy to apply to reading and writing. Information literacy, and being able to find good information online, teaching students how to laterally read, to be able to check a source, or how to use Google effectively, to put in neutral search terms to find sources, or teaching students how to recognize the characteristics of conspiratorial thinking: All of these things can overlap with so many other subjects. So the scientist in me is a little biased towards science being important enough to do this. But try to bring it into the other subjects. It doesn’t have to be completely separate.

Eric Cross (44:43):

So integrating science into other things. And I … big believer. And a hundred percent agree with you. Now I’m gonna ask a question that kinda like takes us backwards. You shared an app with me when we first met that I thought was really cool. And I know it’s a friend or colleague of yours. But as a middle school teacher, I thought it was great, because it was something that my students could download and practice some of the skills that you’re talking about. Would you talk a little bit about the cranky uncle? Is it the Cranky Uncle app?

Melanie Trecek-King (45:17):

Cranky Uncle.

Eric Cross (45:18):

Could you share a little bit about that?

Melanie Trecek-King (45:20):

Yeah. Cranky Uncle is awesome. So, Cranky Uncle is the brainchild of John Cook, who is the founder of Skeptical Science and the author of the 97% Consensus study on climate change. Cranky Uncle … so he’s also a cartoonist. And Cranky Uncle is a cartoon game where … I don’t even have to explain who Cranky Uncle is to my students. Everybody inherently gets the, the character, right? So he’s like the guy at Thanksgiving that you don’t wanna talk to because he denies climate change and he’s just really cranky. But Cranky Uncle uses the techniques of science denial, which are summarized by the acronym FLICC: So it’s Fake experts, Logical fallacies, Impossible expectations, Cherry-picking, and Conspiratorial thinking. So he uses those techniques. Again, this is technique-based inoculation. So they recognize the techniques in the game, and you earn cranky points. And as you make Cranky crankier and crankier because you’re recognizing his techniques, you learn the techniques of science denial, and level up and open up other techniques. This is another one of those examples where climate change has a lot of science behind it, right? And if you wanted to get to the science behind climate change for any particular issue … so let’s say it’s cold today, so I’m gonna say there’s no climate change. OK? If I’m gonna unpack that at a factual level, and with science, we could be here for a while. But if I told you, “That’s like saying, ‘I just ate a sandwich so there’s no global hunger.’” OK? So that’s a parallel argument. Humorous. Love to use this kind of argumentation, ’cause it makes for some … I mean, it’s funny, but you get the point. It’s an anecdote. And anecdotes aren’t good evidence. So just like that, you could teach the technique of using an anecdotal fallacy for climate-change denial. So, I have my students play this game. You could do it when you’re studying argumentation. You could do it for science denial. I use an inoculation extension with that, where I have my students pretend that … um, actually, back up for a second. So I teach a class on critical thinking. And at the end of semesters I would get emails from students on, well, they’re failing the class, but they really shouldn’t, for all of these reasons. And reading these emails, I’m like, “If you think that’s a good argument, you clearly didn’t learn what I was hoping you would learn.” So I now have my students, early in the semester, after they play Cranky, pretend that it is the end of the semester and you’re failing the class and you’re failing because you didn’t do the work. Use at least four of the fallacies from class to argue for why you should pass. So they have to put it on a discussion forum, and they’ll say things like, “Well, if you fail me, then I won’t get into graduate school and then people will die and it will all be your fault.” Or, “My dog died, and so I was really sad.” Or, um, “You’re just a terrible teacher. And you’re short. So I don’t like you.” Or that kind of thing. So, oh, they love to attack my character. It’s really funny. But it’s supposed to be funny. And the point is, the students are using those arguments, they’re using the fallacies, to argue for something. And so by creating that misinformation themselves, they learn how those fallacies work. But taken together, I mean, everything that we just talked about there, Cranky Uncle, and the fallacy assignment, or whatever iteration you want that to be in, that doesn’t have to be in a purely science unit. Right? That could be sociology. It could be argumentation. It could be English.

Eric Cross (49:01):

Absolutely. That could be totally a prompt in an English class. And practiced in there. And then this could be an interdisciplinary thing, going back and forth between English and and science. Just having these discussions and looking at it from different angles. And you’re practicing the skills in two different contexts. So you get into argumentation. And then that app, I know I had fun with it. And the questions on there definitely resonate with people in my own family. I’m like, “I feel like I’m talking to exactly somebody that I’m related to right now.” <Laugh> Melanie, anything else that you wanna share, or discuss or highlight, before we wrap up?

Melanie Trecek-King (49:39):

So we could talk about lateral reading, if you like. ‘Cause I know a lot of educators use the crap test.

Eric Cross (49:45):

Please, please, please talk about that.

Melanie Trecek-King (49:47):

So, when evaluating sources, a lot of educators teach what’s called the CRAP test. And I wish I remembered what it stood for. But basically what you do, a lot of us have been taught when you go to a website, to figure out if it’s reliable, you wanna go to the about page. Read the mission; see who they are; maybe read some of the content; evaluate the language. So is it inflammatory? Are they making logical arguments? Are the links to reputable sources as well? And the problem is that if a site wants to mislead you, they’re not going to tell you that it’s a bunk site, right? They’re just gonna do a good job of misleading you. And so, what you wanna do instead … the CRAP test basically is an evaluation of a site. And that’s what’s called vertical reading. So you’re looking through a site to determine if it’s reliable. Uh, I think his name’s Sam Wineberg at Stanford, proposed something called lateral reading. Where, instead of on the site, what you wanna do is literally open a new tab and into the search engine type the source. You could do the claim, too. And then something like Reliability or FactCheck or whatever it’s that you’re checking, and then see what other reputable sites have to say about it. So, in their study, actually, they did a really interesting study where they compared professional fact checkers to PhD historians to Stanford undergrads. And they evaluated — I wish you could … um, there’s two pediatrician organizations. One’s like the American Association of Pediatrics and the American Academy of Pediatricians, something like that. They’re very similar sounding. So you give them to students. I do this with my students as well, the same study. So I give my students those two websites. And I say, “Which one of these is more reliable?” And they do exactly what most of us do, which is spend time on the site looking around. And most of the time, if not nearly all the time, they come to the wrong conclusion. And so then I tell them what lateral reading is: “OK, instead of looking through the site, open a new tab, search the organization and reliability.” Something like that. And it takes probably 30 seconds before they realize one of them has been dubbed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group. As opposed to the other one, which is like a hundred year old huge pediatrician organization that produces their own journals and so on. But nearly all my students are fooled. And in the study, none of the fact checkers were fooled. I’m gonna get the number right. It’s something like 50% of the historians and 20% of the Stanford undergraduates got the correct answer. And they spent a lot more time on it. So it’s a great way to teach students how to use the power of the internet to evaluate sources much more quickly and, effectively. And yes, use Wikipedia, right? Wikipedia is not a final answer, but Wikipedia is actually pretty accurate. So if Wikipedia is the first place you stop, then yes, go there, see what Wikipedia says, and then follow some of their sources.

Eric Cross (52:47):

What popped in my head was like, Yelp reviews for websites. That almost sounds like what it was. It’s like when I search for a product, I don’t go and read the product description marketing. ‘Cause that’s all designed to sell me on something. But I’ll go and look in Reliability, if it’s like a car, or just other sites to cross-reference. And that sounds like what you were talking about is like cross-referencing. Seeing what FactChecker [sic] said about this site, versus seeing what a site says about itself.

Melanie Trecek-King (53:14):

Well, that’s a great analogy. Because if I wanted to know if a product was effective, what the manufacturer says about the product, clearly there’s a strong chance of bias. Right? They’re going to be on their best, um, put their best foot forward. Versus, what do independent reviewers say about this product?

Eric Cross (53:35):

Yep. And I am known to research something to death. And I get something called “paralysis by analysis.”

Melanie Trecek-King (53:42):

Ohhhh, yeah.

Eric Cross (53:44):

And it’s so bad that even if I’m trying to buy, like, towels, I need to find the best-bang-for-the-buck towel. I have to defer some of these decisions out, because I’m on the internet for three hours now. I’ll be a pseudo-expert in towels, and thread count, and all of that stuff. But yeah, that maybe that’s just the science person.

Melanie Trecek-King (54:03):

I mean, I feel your pain. I do the same thing. <Laugh> It’s annoying. Like, it’s just towels. What does it really matter? But yeah.

Eric Cross (54:10):

Coffee! It doesn’t matter what it is. I just need to go, “OK, I have to use these powers for good. Otherwise I’m gonna be researching forever.”

Melanie Trecek-King (54:16):

I wanna say one other thing. So, again, this is a college class and I have a lot of freedom. But one of the driving philosophies behind the class is a wonderful quote in a book, Schick and Vaughn, How to Think about Weird Things. And they said, “The quality of your life is determined by the quality of your decisions, and the quality of your decisions is determined by the quality of your thinking.” And I know my students want a grade. But I’m really trying to teach them how to be empowered through better thinking. That’s where the name “Thinking is Power” came from. I mean, we say “Knowledge is Power,” but it’s not enough to know things. And there’s too much to know. So being able to think and be empowered to have your own agency and not fall for someone’s bunk is my goal for my students.

Eric Cross (55:07):

And doing that is gonna help them through the rest of their lives. Not be swindled, not be taken advantage of, be able to make better decisions. There’s so many benefits to building that skill. And I know your students have definitely grown and benefited. I’m sure you’ve heard, long after you’ve taught them, heard back from them and how they’ve applied that course to their lives. Melanie, thank you so much for being here. For a few things. One, for providing and filling this space where there’s such a need. Again, the critical thinking resources, the tools that you used, are so, so important. If we ever lived in a time where they were critical, it was really what we experienced during the pandemic in the last few years. We watched people’s information literacy and science literacy play out in real time. And we literally saw life-and-death decisions being made based off those skills. That highlighted, I think how important this is. And then, taking the time to generate resources for educators like myself, that we can take and adapt and put into our classroom and start teaching our students. ‘Cause like you said, by the time they get to you, they’re, they’re so far downstream or so far in a system that, depending on the teachers that they’ve had and the education system they’ve been in, may or may not have even touched on these things. They might have learned a lot of facts, but they may not have built their muscle to be able to critically analyze and interpret the world around them. And you’ve just — even the last year, it hasn’t even been a year since we talked the first time — I’ve watched your resources continue to grow, and you share them. And so I, on behalf of those of us in K–12, thank you. And thank you for being here.

Melanie Trecek-King (56:49):

Oh, well, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for everything that you do, reaching out to other educators and for giving me a platform to hopefully reach other educators.

Eric Cross (57:00):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Melanie Trecek-King, Associate Professor of Biology at Massasoit Community College and creator of Thinking Is Power. Make sure you don’t miss any new episodes of Science Connections by subscribing to the show, wherever you get podcasts. And while you’re there, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more listeners to find the show. You can find more information on all of Amplify shows at our podcast hub, Amplify.com/Hub. Thanks again for listening.

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What Melanie Trecek-King says about science

“Students carry in their pocket access to basically all of humanity’s knowledge at this moment in time. The question is: do they know what they’re looking for?”

– Melanie Trecek-King

Associate Professor of Biology at Massasoit Community College and creator of Thinking is Power

Meet the guest

Melanie Trecek-King is the creator of Thinking is Power, an online resource that provides critical thinking education to the general public. She is currently an associate professor of biology at Massasoit Community College, where she teaches a general-education science course designed to equip students with empowering critical thinking, information literacy, and science literacy skills. An active speaker and consultant, Trecek-King loves to share her “teach skills, not facts” approach with other science educators, and help schools and organizations meet their goals through better thinking. Trecek-King is also the education director for the Mental Immunity Project and CIRCE (Cognitive Immunology Research Collaborative), which aim to advance and apply the science of mental immunity to inoculate minds against misinformation.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S2-05: Moving students forward with project-based learning

A promotional image for the podcast "Science Connections" featuring guest Janis Lodge and the topic "Moving students forward with project-based learning." Season 2, Episode 5.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits with K–5 educator Janis Lodge to chat about building on her own science curriculum to create meaningful project-based learning experiences. Janis shares her work teaching Gifted and Talented Education (GATE), and how to use those practices to help accelerate the learning of all students. Eric and Janis also talk about making time for science within K–5 classrooms. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Janis Lodge (00:00):
To me, the reward of having those kids feel like they accomplished something and the way that they can take ownership of it and go in so many different directions, I cannot take that away from them. That’s such an opportunity that if I have the means to do it, I have to just take it and run with it.

Eric Cross (00:18):
Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Janis Lodge. Janis is a third-grade teacher in Orange County, California, with a specialization in gifted and talented education. Recently, Janis was awarded the Orange County Council for the Gifted and Talented Education Classroom grant. This grant funds a project that provides an extension to her third-grade science unit about environments and survival. Through this project, students will think like a biomimicry engineer as they design a robot that is inspired by an innovation found in nature. In this episode, we discuss how she uses interdisciplinary teaching practices to make time for science learning; why gifted and talented education strategies can benefit all students; and her process for creating a problem-based lesson that ultimately earned her a grant for her classroom. And now, please enjoy my conversation with Janis Lodge. One, welcome! Thanks for being here.

Janis Lodge (01:14):
Of course, I am happy to do it. I’m excited for the opportunity.

Eric Cross (01:17):
Of course! Yeah. Elementary school teachers in science, I feel like there’s so many things to have conversations about. And some of the things that you’ve really focused on, I think, are, really, really important. But I wanna start off with your journey of you becoming a teacher in the classroom. And so, would you kind of give your background, your origin story? How did you end up as a third-grade teacher?

Janis Lodge (01:37):
Well, my story is definitely not a traditional story. Before I was a teacher, I was actually living in Maui, Hawaii. I moved there right after college. I went to Chico State in Northern California. And I got a degree in graphic design. And after I graduated, well, I should give a little bit of a backstory. My last summer before graduating, I spent the whole summer in Maui and I just fell in love with it. So when I graduated, I decided instead of applying for jobs in Northern California, I’m just gonna put some resumes out in Maui and see if I can get a job. And I did. I ended up getting a job doing graphic design and marketing for a kite surf company out there. And I ended up just staying for seven years on the island. And after about seven years, I kind of got a little bit of island fever and decided I wanted to come back to California. I wasn’t sure exactly what I wanted to do, but I just had this calling that I need to do something a little more fulfilling with my life. And I started thinking about different ideas and dreams I had. And I actually started thinking about when I was younger, right? I had this dream. If you were to ask me when I was 10 years old what I wanted to be when I grow up, it would be elementary school teacher.

Eric Cross (02:48):
Really?

Janis Lodge (02:48):
Believe it or not. When I was younger, I transformed my bedroom into a classroom. My stuffed animals were my students. I just thought I’m gonna be the next best teacher ever. And you know, as I went through life and kind of went in different directions, I kind of lost sight of that dream a little bit. But for some reason, when I decided to change careers, I just remembered that. And so I just decided to go get my teaching credential and see if it worked out. And it was probably the best decision I made. I feel like everything just fell perfectly into place. I ended up getting a job at an amazing school, and now, five years later, I’m a third grade teacher.

Eric Cross (03:28):
So one of the questions I have to ask, and talking to elementary school teachers, this comes up a lot: How do you make time for science as an elementary school teacher who’s teaching everything? And let me kind of premise this with, at least for those of us in California, and I’m sure the rest of the states too, but we know this; There’s kind of this pressure with pacing and then even, depending on what school you’re at, math and English tend to get the bulk of things. And maybe there’s this perception also of like, well, I gotta teach math and English, and sometimes science gets put to the back burner for different reasons.

Janis Lodge (03:57):
Well, you’re exactly right. The beginning of the year, we were provided with a pacing from the district. And you know, they try to keep us on track, saying, “You should be starting Unit 2 at this time.” But other than that, there’s really no specific guidelines of how many days we’re supposed to be teaching or for how long. But one kind of secret that I’ve discovered is that I can weave science into the other subjects, specifically with language arts. So quite often what I do is I take a look at the language arts standard, and if it’s identifying the key details and the main idea, well I can do that with the science books used from the curriculum. So I’ll just pull those readers and we’ll do the exact same skill, start with the same standard, but we’ll use the content from science. By doing that, we call that kind of like interdisciplinary study. And the students really enjoy that more, too, because they’re using the same skills but they’re diving deeper into the content.

Eric Cross (04:54):
Right.

Janis Lodge (04:55):
And so also that helps build the background knowledge. So then when it comes to time where, if I want to do a science lab or a science investigation, now they already have that background knowledge ’cause we already dove deep into the reading and they can apply that pretty quickly right away into their lab or whatever activity they’re doing.

Eric Cross (05:12):
Can you give an example maybe of how you might pull out something that might be a skill that you’re trying to develop, maybe in an English content, but you would pull that out in a science lesson, maybe? What would you do?

Janis Lodge (05:25):
We’re actually doing that right now. So we’re in our second unit of science and they’re studying inheritance and traits and they’re looking at different organisms to see how they have adaptations to help them survive in their environment. So coincidentally part of the literacy skills is to look at multiple sources, do research, and summarize and make analysis of what they’re reading. And so we have different varied resources. I have websites; I have books, ebooks, videos, and pictures. And they’re choosing which four sources they want to use. And then, then they’re coming up with a summary at the end and then putting together a Google Slides presentation based on whatever organism that they chose.

Eric Cross (06:05):
Did you have a science background before becoming an elementary school teacher?

Janis Lodge (06:11):
Um, none. Besides what I, you know, took in high school and college.

Eric Cross (06:16):
Did you find it easy to kind of lean into the science, or was it something you just kind of jumped into and said, “All right, I’m gonna get after it”?

Janis Lodge (06:23):
What’s interesting is if, you know, throughout my education, my favorite subjects were English and reading and writing and art. And quite honestly, science wasn’t my favorite subject. But I think because of that, that inspires me to come up with creative ways of presenting the information to them and making it exciting and engaging for them, because I don’t want them to feel that way. I want them to be excited about all subjects. And I think that’s the beauty of combining the different subjects like I mentioned before. Like I say, you know, “What would a scholar do? Think like a wildlife biologist. And like with my project, think like a biomimicry engineer.” And so it kind of shifts their thinking. Like, it’s not just, “Oh, we have to study science.” It’s like, “No, you are the scientist; you are a meteorologist; or you are an author. How would an author write about this? How would an illustrator capture this in a photo or a comic strip?” And so, when you really combine those disciplines, you can take it to another level. So even if science isn’t their favorite subject, like maybe it wasn’t for me growing up, they can still take something they’re passionate about and apply the science content to it and they really resonate with them.

Eric Cross (07:37):
You leaned into your strengths. Which are more like, coming into it, you had all these kind of creative strengths. You have that background as a graphics designer. You were into the arts. But then with those strengths, did that kinda give you more confidence to dive into the science work, because you approached it from your assets that you were already coming to the table with?

Janis Lodge (07:55):
Yeah.You said it perfectly. If you look at it from a different lens, there’s all these different ways you can approach science.

Eric Cross (07:59):
I find it in my own science class, too. We’re all teaching the same standards. But how I approach it is through Eric Cross’s kind of personality and understanding and my angle, and another teacher might do it a different way. But we’re all leading to the same destination.

Janis Lodge (08:14):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (08:15):
That kind of leads me to my next question, and this is having to do with the project that you just alluded to. The biomimicry project. So you did a biomimicry project. Would you consider that like a project based-learning assignment?

Janis Lodge (08:26):
Well, this will be the third year that I’ve taught this unit. And when I wrapped it up last year, it’s through the Amplify Science program, and they do a wonderful job of having a lot of investigations and really thinking like a biomimicry engineer. But the final part of the unit was to design a robot inspired by a giraffe, to eliminate invasive plants in a particular environment. And the project part of it at the end was to create a model using Popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners. And then the other part of it was a digital simulation where they would put in different shape structures of teeth, and kind of reconfigure the shape of the mouth. And then they’d put in what they think is effective, and then the computer would say, oh, you’re 98% successful or 70% successful. And I remember at the end of it the students were like, “OK, well when do we make the robots?” And I thought, “Well, we’re just doing the simulation, or we’re just doing this model out of Popsicle sticks; we’re not actually gonna make a robot.” And they just seemed so disappointed. And that’s kind of how the wheels started turning my head like, “Well, what if they actually could make a robot? The only thing stopping me is I don’t have the materials to do it.” So, shortly after that unit wrapped up, coincidentally I saw the email about this grant opportunity that was being offered through the Orange County Council for Gifted Education. And they said, If you have a project that you wanna get funded that would promote GATE strategies within the classroom, then you can submit this proposal. So that’s how the ball got rolling for that proposal. And I researched different robotics kits and different companies and I found one that was really user-friendly for third graders, and not so difficult for me to learn as well.

Eric Cross (10:10):
You’re a risk taker. Like, I’m already seeing this as I’m talking to you. Is that just who you are or do you have a network? Like what keeps you taking these risks?

Janis Lodge (10:18):
I don’t really consider it a risk, because it’s exciting for me. Like I said, I don’t know that much about robotics, but the idea of learning more and then teaching that to my students is exciting. And you know, there was a little bit of risk ’cause I’m deviating a little bit from the curriculum, from the standard lesson, but to me, the reward of having those kids feel like they accomplished something, and the way that they can take ownership of it and go in so many different directions, and on top of that, develop coding skills and computer science skills and robotic skills, to me it was just like I cannot take that away from them. That’s such an opportunity that if I have the means to do it, I have to just take it and run with it. So I think just being inspired by the potential outcomes of what could happen is what made me take that risk.

Eric Cross (11:05):
Did you just kind of create this from scratch? Did you work with a team of people? How did you come to the point where you were ready to present this for the grant?

Janis Lodge (11:12):
Pretty much from scratch. Like I said, the Amplify unit, it does teach them about robotics that were inspired by nature. So some of the materials that they read, and there’s some videos that show really great examples. There’s like a robotic arm that was inspired by an elephant trunk. There’s a book that shows what this field is, biomimicry engineer, they actually show like what they do in that field. And I thought this is a perfect way to apply it because the curriculum’s already pretty much set it up for me; now I just have to add this one final component to it. And essentially it becomes project-based learning at that point, because they’re taking their knowledge and their skills that they’ve learned up to that point. Even the unit that we’re doing doing right now is building up to it. So it’s kind of that final—instead of giving them a test at the end and saying, “OK, tell me what you learned about inheritance and traits and environments,” they can actually take that knowledge and apply it to an innovation or creation that comes out of their own mind, which is so much more powerful.

Eric Cross (12:11):
Do they connect to any other learning goals as they’re doing these projects?

Janis Lodge (12:15):
Well, I think first and foremost, the 21st century skills that from day one I tell them, the four Cs: collaboration, creativity, communication, and critical thinking. All of those are woven in through this lesson. From the beginning, we talked about the whole engineering design process. So from the beginning, they start with a question and oftentimes that actually can be the hardest for them to think about, “What’s a scientific question or a problem that I wanna solve?” If they’re passionate about, maybe, a sport or the environment or something within their school, I go, “There it is. OK, that’s the problem. How can you design something inspired by nature to solve that problem?” And then, from there they go into the planning and the designing and the testing and then the improving. So going through that engineering design process, I think, is what really makes them feel like they are the engineer going through this. And they can make mistakes. They can take risks. A lot of my students I’ve found are afraid to take risks. They wanna make sure they succeed. And they need that challenge to know that if they do fail, that’s OK. We can just revisit this. We can test it. We can look at it in a different way.

Eric Cross (13:27):
You maybe wonder about, how do you assess something like this?

Janis Lodge (13:30):
I think that’s where all those stages along the way are important. Because I wanna make sure that they have a plan and that it’s based on the knowledge that they’ve gained in the unit. I think one of the other things about project-based learning is the final product of how they demonstrate their mastery. And in my classroom I oftentimes give them a choice of how they’re gonna present that to me. So maybe they’re going to write it out like an essay. Maybe they’re gonna create a Google slide. Maybe they’re gonna make a video. Maybe they’re going to—obviously in this part they will have the model, but they’ll have to have some way to explain it to me. And I think giving them that choice gives them the opportunity to show it in the way that’s meaningful to them.

Eric Cross (14:14):
And are you using like a rubric when you’re grading these assignments? Or, how do you actually grade it?

Janis Lodge (14:20):
Yes. So we have a rubric that’s provided to us for the written component that all the students will do at the end. But I can take that same rubric and see if they’ve applied that to the project. So even the verbiage wouldn’t really need to change. I think it’s still important that the students are able to demonstrate this in written form and so all of them will still complete that written component, but to also give them the opportunity to show that in the modality of their choice. I think is really important too.

Eric Cross (14:48):
Right. And you have some students that feel much more comfortable being able to present orally versus—

Janis Lodge (14:53):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (14:53):
—versus writing versus maybe doing a video. I mean, we see that in middle school and in high school too. Students show their knowledge or their understanding of a topic depending on the medium in different ways, and some better than others. Some may find that they can communicate it a lot better orally, but when pen goes to paper or fingers go to keyboard, you might grade it completely different, ’cause they’re not able to transfer what’s in their mind into writing. And the way you’re doing it, and giving that student choice, they probably have so much more buy-in, I’d imagine, because they get to pick what they get to do.

Janis Lodge (15:21):
Right.

Eric Cross (15:22):
You said something earlier and I wanna come back to it. So you mentioned GATE, and GATE is not something that I hear a lot in my world, but it was something I heard a lot when I was in school. There were kind of all of these perceptions and ideas about GATE. You’re a GATE teacher, correct?

Janis Lodge (15:38):
Right.

Eric Cross (15:39):
What is GATE, and what is it like being a GATE teacher? What are the misconceptions, if any, that you might have heard or come across?

Janis Lodge (15:46):
Well, so GATE stands for Gifted and Talented Education. And first and foremost, I think a misconception is that we’re just kind of doing whatever we want; we come up with our own lessons and teach a totally different curriculum. Which is definitely a myth. Because we start with the exact same standards as any other third grade class that you’d walk into. That’s definitely where we start. But I think in addition to the standards, we also implement what are called GATE standards: So they’re Depth, Complexity, Acceleration, and Novelty. And there’s a lot of tools that we use in the classroom, different strategies. You’ll see things like the prompts of Depth and Complexity. We’ll use things like “think like a disciplinarian”; I’m doing “think like a biomimicry engineer.” But really, all they are are just thinking tools and strategies to elevate students thinking and kind of go below that surface level of the content to dive deeper. It also provides opportunities for acceleration. So for example, our last science unit, it was on magnetic force, and there was a handful of students that just grasped the concepts right away, and they’re ready for something else. They’re ready for more rigor. They need some challenge. And so at that point I can kind of pull that group aside and provide some differentiation for them. And I said, “OK, well, you understand the concept of magnetic force, balanced forces. So now what I want you to do is think about something that you’re really passionate about, and how could you use magnetic force somewhere in that field—again to solve a problem, problem-based learning—and present it to me?” So they create this form, it’s like a “think like a disciplinarian” frame, and one of them was “think like a hockey player.” And he’s trying to think of a way that he can incorporate magnetic force. Anyway, I could go on and on. But basically it’s finding what these students’ passions are. And I do that with all my students. And I should probably preface this by saying that even though these are standards that I implement in my classroom because it’s a GATE classroom, these are practices and tools that can be applied to any learner, at any age. And they really just enrich the education for all students.

Eric Cross (18:02):
So your classroom is, is a mixed classroom. There’s GATE students and then general—

Janis Lodge (18:05):
Right.

Eric Cross (18:07):
—students, non-GATE students, in the same class. It’s interesting because I imagine GATE is kind of scaffolding up to a higher level, but then, you also said something that I’ve noticed when I’m creating scaffolds for my students to support them, who may not be at a grade level, maybe in reading or literacy or math, those same scaffolds can help all students.

Janis Lodge (18:27):
So yeah, I don’t just go, “OK, you’re my GATE students; I’m gonna use these practices on you.” I use it for the whole class. But I’m also surprised by having that mix of these different learning styles. A lot of times students are inspired by other students, or, you know, we have this big thing about one of the prompts is Multiple Perspectives. I try to do that as much as I can, because students are inspired by the ideas of their peers. And quite often, if they hear it from a peer, it could be exactly what I just said, but they heard their student say it in a different way and it just clicks and they’re like, “Wow, I get that.”

Eric Cross (19:00):
I think a lot of teachers struggle or, or maybe feel ill-equipped, to support higher-level students. Did you get trained to be a GATE teacher? First lemme ask that question: Did you get special training for this?

Janis Lodge (19:13):
Yes. I went through a course, I think it was like a six-week certification course, through my district.

Eric Cross (19:19):
OK, so you got a special training, which—I’ve been in the classroom for nine years; I teach at a university as an adjunct professor; but I’ve never been trained on teaching gifted or accelerated students. And I’m kind of wondering now, like, do you feel like it made you a better teacher?

Janis Lodge (19:33):
Absolutely.

Eric Cross (19:34):
And if so, how do I get to do this?

Janis Lodge (19:36):
Well, it’s through the county. I mean, anybody can get trained and certified how to teach this way. But, just like you said, I think coming out of that, my eyes were just open, and my biggest takeaway is that these practices, even though they are designed for gifted and talented, it really kind of reshaped my thinking about how I, number one, present material to the students, that I’m doing it in an engaging way, and I’m not just lecturing at them; there’s opportunities for them to collaborate and communicate and use multiple resources. So, you know, how I’m teaching has changed. And then also, how I’m providing opportunities for them to demonstrate their learning. And a lot of that is project-based learning, because once they have the knowledge and skills they need to do something with it. I mean, that’s really the true definition of innovation, is taking the skills or taking something that you’ve learned, and now go with it. Run with it.

Eric Cross (20:32):
How can we take what you’ve learned and then kind of spread it, so teachers have this in their toolkit, too? Like for me, I have multiple ways to be able to support reading and literacy and math and tools and sentence frames. And my students who have special learning plans, I have a have a lot of tool sets for that. I wanna build my tool sets for this other area for my students who want to continue, who wanna run, or go beyond, or even stretch themselves. I think we need to take some of the things that you’re doing and not make them kind of like this exclusive group, but also let’s share it with everyone, ’cause if everybody can access it—

Janis Lodge (21:03):
I agree.

Eric Cross (21:03):
—we might see a lot more potential or a lot more opportunities for students who might not otherwise have them.

Janis Lodge (21:08):
And one thing: My school, I’m really proud to say that my principal has seen that. You know, he’s like, “Well why are we just keeping this in the GATE classroom?” So he’s working on getting all of our teachers certified.

Eric Cross (21:19):
No, I love what you’re doing and your principal sounds, sounds awesome for doing that and recognizing that this can benefit more students than just the ones who, you know, pass the Raisin Test, I think it’s what it was called when I was taking it, or whatever it is back then.

Janis Lodge (21:31):
Exactly.

Eric Cross (21:32):
We’ve talked about project-based learning, the GATE classroom…I kind of wanna come back to you as we wrap up. Thinking about, like, the jobs that you and I do, and the people that listen to this podcast, we have one of the few jobs that people remember us for a lifetime. And I wanna ask you, who was someone that was maybe inspirational in your educational career, that inspired you, or is maybe one of the most memorable? You might have several…but who is someone that was memorable to you in your career, and why? Why were they memorable to you?

Janis Lodge (22:02):
Yeah. Well, obviously, when I was younger, I was definitely inspired by all my teachers. The fact that I turned my bedroom into a classroom…I just was just in awe of this profession. But I think one that really resonated with me was my junior year in high school. I was taking a newspaper class and the teacher was Mrs. Kavanaugh, and she really taught us everything from writing the articles to the editing, to putting the pages together. And I remember in that class I was working on this program called QuarkXPress. I don’t even know if it exists anymore. But I was just fascinated with putting all these pieces together that we’d worked on for so long and getting the articles, picking the pictures, the illustrations and the titles. And I remember her looking at me saying, “You really enjoy this, don’t you?” And I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “Well, I have a computer graphics elective class that you should take next year.” And I thought, “OK, I’d love to do this, this opportunity to expand my knowledge and my skills.” So because of that, I took the computer graphics class the next year and I just remember throughout the whole time, she was just constantly encouraging me and acknowledging my skills. And I find myself doing that as a teacher as well. ‘Cause that really resonated with me. And it’s funny, this summer I was going through some boxes of some old stuff from high school, and I found this handout that I had made, because I remember my senior year of high school, she said, “Janis, you know what? You’re doing such a great job; we have these new, incoming students coming into the newspaper class, and I’d love for you to actually teach them how to do this pagination on this QuarkXPress program. I want you to put something together and actually teach it to them.” I thought, “Wow, she believes in me that much that she’s gonna let me teach this to the incoming students.” But I think my takeaway from that was that she gave me the opportunity to take those skills and actually do something with them, to apply them right away.

Eric Cross (23:53):
Mrs. Kavanaugh. Miss Kavanaugh. Shout-out to Miss Kavanaugh. As you told that story, I heard you as a teacher because I’m hearing she’s applying these GATE strategies in that situation. That’s what that’s what I heard.

Janis Lodge (24:08):
Yeah, absolutely.

Eric Cross (24:09):
She personalized this learning. She created a specialized opportunity. You presented to a real audience that was authentic. It had this personalization in it and this rigor and this challenge and it made a huge impact. And it’s just amazing to listen to you and hear this come full-circle, and now you’re doing this with little ones. And I just wanna thank you for your time in doing the interview, sharing your story with how you became a teacher, your students, the projects that you do. And just like so many teachers, going the extra mile for your kids and bringing in these really important 21st century skills; they’re gonna be so much better off for it. And I know it makes my job easier when I get them in the classroom, so thank you.

Janis Lodge (24:49):
Yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity.

Eric Cross (24:51):
My pleasure. Thanks so much for listening and we wanna hear more about you and the educators who inspire you. You can nominate them as a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM@amplify.com. That’s S -T-E-M at amplify dot com. And be sure to click subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts, and join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Janis Lodge says about science

“The reward of having kids feel like they accomplished something and take ownership is such an opportunity [with project-based learning] that I have to run with it. Being inspired by the potential outcomes of what could happen is what made me take that risk.”

– Janice Lodge

3rd Grade Teacher, De Portola Elementary

Meet the guest

Janis Lodge is a third grade teacher in Orange County, California. Her career in education started six years ago when she decided to follow her passion of making a positive difference in the lives of young scholars. Prior to teaching, Janis lived in Maui, Hawaii for seven years, working in the field of graphic design, marketing, and hospitality. She has found that her interest in innovation, project-based learning, and inquiry-driven exploration has helped shape her into the educator she is today. STEAM is integrated regularly into her classroom, and her students continually develop 21st century skills through a variety of unique projects. ​​Janis is also a PAL (Peer Assistance Leadership) Advisor for her school, where she helps young leaders (4th-6th graders) cultivate their leadership skills and empowers them to make a positive difference in their school and community. Janis was recently awarded the Orange County Council for the Gifted & Talented Education Classroom Grant, which will provide an extension to the third grade Amplify Science Unit: Environments and Survival.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-05: How does coding fit in the science classroom? A conversation with Aryanna Trejo of Code.org

Podcast cover titled "Science Connections" featuring Aryanna Trejo, Season 1, Episode 5. It includes abstract illustrations of a globe and telescope, discussing coding in the science classroom.

In this episode, Eric sits down with Aryanna Trejo, a professional learning specialist of Code.org. Aryanna shares her journey from working as an elementary teacher in New York City and Los Angeles to teaching other educators at Code.org. Eric and Aryanna chat about computer literacy within the science classroom, problem-solving skills, and ways to model productive struggle for students. Aryanna also shares ways to teach coding and computer literacy in schools, no matter the classroom’s technology level. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Aryanna Trejo (00:00):

I would hear teachers saying things like, “Well, I just can’t do coding; this is too hard for me; the time has passed.” And I would ask them, “Would you say that to your student about math or English?” And they would always sheepishly go, “No.” And I’d say, “Well, be as kind to yourself as you would be to your student.”

Eric Cross (00:19):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Aryanna Trejo. Aryanna is a member of the professional learning team at Code.org. Before joining Code.org, Aryanna led computer science professional development for elementary school teachers, and served as an instructional coach for new educators. She also taught fourth and fifth grade in both New York City and in Los Angeles. In this episode, we discuss Aryanna’s journey to Code.org, where she helps educators connect coding to real life, how to use a rubber duck to solve problems, and how coding and computer science principles can be taught to students in areas without access to the internet…or even a computer. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Aryanna Trejo. So I was born and raised here, and I saw that you went to UC San Diego.

Aryanna Trejo (01:11):

I did, I did. I actually just put a deposit down on an apartment in University Heights, ’cause I’m moving back.

Eric Cross (01:16):

You’re coming back?

Aryanna Trejo (01:17):

I’m coming back. Yeah.

Eric Cross (01:19):

So if you need a classroom to visit….

Aryanna Trejo (01:21):

I would love to do more classroom observations!

Eric Cross (01:24):

Are we doing this? Let’s do—we’re making this happen.

Aryanna Trejo (01:26):

We are. Yeah. So I’ll be there. I’m moving there in April. I actually grew up in Orange County too, so I’m like a very diehard SoCal person.

Eric Cross (01:35):

So I feel like I know the answer to, hopefully—Tupac or Biggie? ‘Cause you’re on the East Coast, and you’re on the West Coast.

Aryanna Trejo (01:40):

Yeah. I like Tupac, but I have more Biggie songs committed to memory. Which is not a lot. I have “Juicy” and “Hypnotized” memorized.

Eric Cross (01:53):

All right. So you’re just memorizing, and you have the Biggie songs memorized, but not the Tupac ones.

Aryanna Trejo (01:58):

No, but I do love Tupac songs. You know, it’s like, Biggie has the flow, but Tupac has the lyrics. Nobody’s—they both have something really amazing about them.

Eric Cross (02:06):

You know, I can respect that you broke it down into both of their strengths.

Aryanna Trejo (02:11):

Thanks for buttering me up before this interview. And not….

Eric Cross (02:15):

<laugh> Oh, we already started.

Aryanna Trejo (02:16):

Huh? We already started?

Eric Cross (02:17):

We’re already started. Yeah. We’re already into this.

Aryanna Trejo (02:19):

We’re into it.

Eric Cross (02:21):

You were in the classroom, fourth and fifth grade, and you were doing TFA.

Aryanna Trejo (02:26):

I did. I did Teach For America. I was 2012, New York City Corps. Right after graduation. ‘Cause I graduated UC San Diego in 2012. So graduation was on June 17th, and I touched down at JFK on June 19th.

Eric Cross (02:40):

Even though I wasn’t in TFA, I know a lot of the fellows that are in it. And there’s just some phenomenal teachers in there. How long were you doing elementary school when you were teaching?

Aryanna Trejo (02:49):

Yeah, I taught for—well, I did, three years of teaching fourth grade. Then there happened to be an instructional coach opening in my fourth year. I took that, did some instructional coaching within the same network, and then I moved back to LA and I taught fifth grade for a year.

Eric Cross (03:11):

  1. And what was it like now? Did you go to Code.org right after the classroom?

Aryanna Trejo (03:17):

No, I didn’t. No. I transitioned after teaching fifth grade for a year in downtown Los Angeles, in the Pico-Union neighborhood. I ended up getting this email out of the blue from someone who had actually found me through the Teach for America job site. ‘Cause I was hitting the pavement; I was really looking to transition out of the classroom. And she invited me to interview with this company called 9 Dots. And they taught computer science to kids K–6 throughout Los Angeles and Compton. And I was like, “Sure, no problem. Let’s do it.” So I interviewed, I got the job, and yeah, that’s how I transitioned to 9 Dots. And then after almost four years there, I transitioned to Code.org, with the same person. Actually, she moved over to Code.org first, and then she helped me get this job.

Eric Cross (04:07):

Oh, that’s happened a lot—like, that relationship kinda carries over.

Aryanna Trejo (04:11):

Yeah. We’re meant to be coworkers.

Eric Cross (04:13):

Yeah. Are you still? Is she still there? Are you both still together?

Aryanna Trejo (04:17):

Yeah, we’re on the same team and it’s nice. I saw her last night for Happy Hour, with another coworker who’s in LA. So we’re tight. And she’s a wonderful, wonderful mentor to me.

Eric Cross (04:28):

That’s great. Did you have computer-science background, when you were doing elementary school teaching? Did you have—

Aryanna Trejo (04:34):

No. <laugh> Not at all. When I was teaching in New York City, I had like four desktop computers in my classroom, and we rarely used them. Which was such a shame. And then when I moved to Los Angeles and taught fifth grade there, we were a one-to-one school, and the joys of that are just amazing. It was just really wonderful to, you know, get the students used to typing on the computer, using different software to submit their assignments. Getting creative—as creative as you can get—with Google Slides. You know, to show off what they know. And stuff like that. That’s all I had, though. And you know, when I transitioned to 9 Dots I was like, “Sure, why not? Let’s give a shot.” And I learned a lot. It was really interesting, yeah.

Eric Cross (05:26):

And so now at Code.org you are…well, so my journey with Code.org, I’ve been in the classroom for eight years. Still in the classroom as of…an hour ago, I was there. <Laugh> And I use Code.org, and I feel like I’ve checked it periodically, and I feel like it’s evolved over the gaps. And I’ve seen it. It’s become more robust in the things that they offer, over the years I’ve been an educator. Just to kind of…could you give a thumbnail sketch? Like, what is Code.org? Who’s it for? Who’s the target audience? What resources are there?

Aryanna Trejo (06:00):

Yeah. So it’s for everyone. It is a nonprofit that provides curriculum and training and a platform for teachers and students. We provide curriculum for K through 12. It’s completely free. And it comes with lesson plans, slideshows, all that. We focus specifically on underrepresented groups. So we have targeted measures for Black students, for Native American students, for students who identify as female. That’s a huge part of our mission. But we’re really working to expand access to computer science to as many students as we can.

Eric Cross (06:41):

One of the things I’m hearing in your story is you were teaching in Compton; you were in Bronx, New York. One of the reasons why I got into the classroom is because of educators, and the impact they made on me in exposing me to science and technologies I’d never had access to. And that intentionality, that you’re going about it…are there…not just the code, but how you bring that across to different groups…are there strategies, or are there ways to connect this idea of coding to diverse groups and diverse audiences? Or is it kind of, the curriculum applies for everyone? ‘Cause in science, when I’m teaching, I’m always trying to make what I’m doing relevant to the backgrounds of my students.

Aryanna Trejo (07:28):

Sure.

Eric Cross (07:28):

So I’m teaching biology, and I’m trying to make this kind of connection. Sometimes it’s more organic; sometimes it feels kind of forced. Because it’s just not always a nice fit. But it sounds like Code.org is really about inclusion. And in the numbers that I’ve seen for representation, in especially computer science software engineers, the groups that you’re focusing on are not necessarily represented in the professional workforce. At least disproportionately.

Aryanna Trejo (07:54):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s correct.

Eric Cross (07:57):

And so how do you go about being intentional about reaching groups that we don’t see in, you know, the Silicon Valley software engineers? How do you start that? Like, at a young age, do you look for specific schools in specific areas to say, “We are going to bring this to the school. We’re going out to these populations of the cities”? Because we’re just not seeing…you know, on the map, we’re not seeing anybody really doing anything with coding here. Or we’re not seeing the numbers come out of these areas, out of these cities, of students who are going into STEM or going into computer science fields.

Aryanna Trejo (08:41):

Yeah. I don’t necessarily work on the recruitment side of it, is the issue, in my position. But I do work on the professional learning, that is brought out to teachers. And we have a huge focus on equity throughout the workshops that we create from K–12. It’s something we’re really passionate about. We definitely aim to prepare teachers to teach computer science. That’s a huge part of it. Knowing the content, but also thinking through, “What does recruitment look like at your school to make sure that the demographics of your classroom match the demographics of your entire school?” Also, thinking through, “How can we make sure that female students feel included in your classroom? How can we make sure that we are, giving students creativity to think about, or we are setting students up to be creative and think about the problems that are in their community, and how they can use computer science to solve them, or at least work towards them?”

Eric Cross (09:39):

So solving real-world problems and that inclusion aspect…are there things like…you were saying “female or students who identify as female”…are there things that teachers can do to ensure that they’re being more inclusive? Or to recruit, or encourage more female students to take part? One of the things I was thinking of, that I’ve seen, is I’ve seen coding kind of camps.

Aryanna Trejo (10:06):

Sure.

Eric Cross (10:08):

That were specifically for a female audience. And that seemed to help with recruitment. Is that something that you see on your side?

Aryanna Trejo (10:16):

That’s not something that we set up, no. But the curriculum that I work with is CS Principles. And it’s offered as an Advanced Placement course, as well as an AP class. So that’s a curriculum that’s designed for students who are in grades 10 through 12. And so at that point, we can really talk to teachers and ask them what the recruitment strategy is. But in terms of strategies that teachers can use to recruit those students…I mean, I’ve heard over and over from lots of different teachers who identify as female that they didn’t think that computer science was for them, until they saw a role model in that position. And so just being a role model for those students is really wonderful.

Eric Cross (11:00):

And I see it too, with—like, we do “Draw a Scientist” activity, which is like a popular science thing—

Aryanna Trejo (11:05):

Sure, yeah, I’m familiar.

Eric Cross (11:05):

But it’s the same thing, right? Like, it fleshes out. My students don’t draw themselves as scientists. They draw what they perceive, based on what television says. I imagine with computer science, it’s probably really similar, when you think about “What’s a software engineer look like?” Do students tend to draw themselves? Or is it even a mystery? Because I don’t even know what a software engineer looks like.

Aryanna Trejo (11:28):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things we love to do with our professional learning workshops is talk about understanding yourself, your identities, how they show up in the classroom as biases. And, you know, things like stereotype threat. We see that as really important to understand, and think through, and consider, before you step into the classroom. So that you’re not, you know, coddling certain groups of students because you don’t believe that they are able to be successful in computer science. Holding all the students to the same expectations and believing that they can succeed. And computer science, I think a lot of the times people have this conception of it being this utopian, bias-less, technocratic field. When in reality, everything has bias. And people talk about algorithmic bias and facial recognition, but also the people who created computers and computer languages have their own bias that comes through. And I think it’s really important to show students that. So that they can, one, know what they’re working with, and two, make sure that they can create products that reduce that bias.

Eric Cross (12:50):

It’s like…it’s not objective, just because we’re creating software. Like, once it gets to a point of being so sophisticated…I think, like, AI software, right? With facial recognition? And we’re seeing more and more articles come out about, you know, predicting trends based on historical data.

Aryanna Trejo (13:12):

Sure.

Eric Cross (13:13):

But then, the trends and things that they’re seeing tend to target things that have happened in the past. But it also doesn’t take into consideration a lot of other factors that can lead to certain groups or populations being identified. And I’ve seen some articles lately about how your code is really just representation of what you put into it. And like you just said, your bias—if you have that, conscious or unconscious—you’re gonna put that into your code. And the input is gonna be an impact, is gonna impact the output.

Aryanna Trejo (13:44):

Yeah, absolutely. Or even just—and I’m ashamed to say this, ’cause this is an idea that came to me just recently, through an article that I read—but computers themselves have bias. The hardware assumes that you have vision, that you can see the screen, that you are able-bodied, that you can use your hands to work the keyboard, the mouse, et cetera, and that you don’t have to use assistive technology. You know, there are small things like that, where we think that technology, like I said, is this utopian, futuristic science…but there are biases throughout.

Eric Cross (14:19):

You’re absolutely right. I’ve never even—I’ve never even considered that. Even though I do use assistive tech, and figure it out, I’ve never thought from the ground up, the process is built for an able-bodied, sighted, hearing person.

Aryanna Trejo (14:31):

Exactly.

Eric Cross (14:32):

To be able to engage with the hardware. And then these other things, these tertiary things that we kind of add on, so that you can do this, but it’s not designed from the ground up for people who are, you know, different audiences, physically. So I’m glad you brought that up, though. Now I’ve seen—and I haven’t done this—but I know Hour of Code is a big thing. And this is something that’s ongoing. Can you talk a little bit about what Hour of Code is? I know it’s, it’s a big thing for the classroom teachers.

Aryanna Trejo (15:08):

Yeah. So Hour of Code is really exciting, and it’s just blossomed from something small to something tremendous. This year is gonna be the 10th Hour of Code. So what it is, is it happens during CS Education Week in December, during Grace Hopper’s—or to honor Grace Hopper’s birthday. She was a computer scientist and Navy Admiral. And basically the aim of it is to get as many students on the computer doing an hour of code, and demystify what coding is. You know, to do seed-planting. To show teachers that this is something that you can facilitate for your students. And also to show students like, “Hey, computer science is something you can absolutely do. Not just for an hour, but more if you want.” So, yeah. Now it’s worldwide, and it’s really exciting.

Eric Cross (15:58):

That’s awesome. And I think about teachers and I still hear the apologetic—when I’m helping teachers in the classroom with education technology—the self-deprecating “I’m a dinosaur; I’m not good with tech,” which is never true. Like, they’re better than they even realize. And I feel like sometimes there’s still a stigma, too. It’s like <laugh> The Simpsons’ Comic Book Store Guy. The condescending tech support person—

Aryanna Trejo (16:27):

Sure.

Eric Cross (16:28):

—who has that tone. And so I feel like some people have been so negatively impacted by that person. So I know when I’m helping people, I actually try to go full-spectrum the other side. But I’m thinking about teachers’ barrier to entry. Sometimes code is like, “Whoa.” And I don’t teach computer science. Do you see those barriers to entry, or at least the perception of them? And then, what’s the reality for like someone listening, and going, “I’m a fourth grade teacher,” or “I’m a humanities teacher in ninth grade.” What’s the perception that you see, versus reality, with the teachers that you train? Is it much more accessible than we think? Or is there a level of sophistication that you have to have coming into it?

Aryanna Trejo (17:10):

No, not at all. I know computer science, and that says a lot! <Laugh> You know, I know my own corner of computer science. And you know, that’s me being self-deprecating, too. But I think learning computer science has helped me in so many different ways that I wasn’t expecting. I recently took the GRE in hopes of, you know, getting back into grad school. And I think just the way that computer science teaches you to search for bugs in your code, or errors, and kind of tirelessly look at a problem from multiple different angles, I was able to carry that into the math that I was doing. And I noticed just a huge difference in the way that I approached it, and the way that I was open to it. But you asked a great question, in regards to the barriers to technology. In my position at 9 Dots, I was working directly with teachers to lead professional development with them. Sometimes it would be a full day; sometimes it would be an hour after school. And the one thing that I always had in my back pocket that was really useful is that I would hear teachers saying things like, “Well, I just can’t do coding; this is too hard for me; the time has passed.” And I would ask them, “Would you say that to your student about math or English?” And they would always sheepishly go, “No.” And I’d say, “Well, be as kind to yourself as you would be to your student.” You know, it takes some patience and nobody’s gonna get it perfect 100 percent of the time. Have I banged my head against the wall trying to solve one tiny little syntax error in my code? Absolutely! But it feels absolutely phenomenal to fix that. And I was an English major in undergrad, and I had never done computer science before. So it’s something that becomes really satisfying.

Eric Cross (19:07):

Yeah, I imagine. I had someone—a trainer or a presenter—one time bring up the fact that our students rarely get to see us learn in real time.

Aryanna Trejo (19:19):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (19:19):

So we don’t get to ever really model failure. I mean, unless we’re in a classroom situation <laughs> in our failures, with classroom management. Then they see it, they see it! But they don’t get to see us model learning failure. And I don’t mean like failure—and yes, I know, “first attempt is learning,” and “no such thing as failure”—that’s not what I’m talking about. But just when we’re not successful with our code, and then we experience real-time frustration.

Aryanna Trejo (19:42):

Yep.

Eric Cross (19:42):

And they said that is actually a great learning experience for your students to watch you go through productive struggle. And that was really liberating for me. Because now I’m in the classroom, and I’m trying to go through it with my students, and the beautiful thing was, they started helping me. We were all trying to solve the problem. And then we had this authentic problem-solving experience. I think it was like a Scratch program, where we were trying to solve, trying to embed it somewhere, or something. And then, in the background of the class: “Mr. Cross! I got it! I figured it out!” And it was this really neat bonding experience. And I felt that—your ears get red, and you get hot, ’cause you’re not—

Aryanna Trejo (20:19):

Oh yeah.

Eric Cross (20:20):

You don’t know it! And you’re in front of 36 kids! And I said, “OK, I need to tell them how I feel.”

Aryanna Trejo (20:25):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (20:26):

So I said, “Now I feel really frustrated.” Like, “I want to go through this, and here’s my thoughts.” ‘Cause I knew that it would be helpful if they saw and would hear my thoughts. So I just did a quick think-aloud and I said, “In my head, <laugh> I want to just quit,” I said, “But I realize that this is the part where my learning’s happening. So I just want you all to hear what’s going on in my brain.” And now I feel like when I’m doing coding with my students, and it’s just basic coding, I feel much more comfortable, like, not knowing. But I needed someone to release me from that “I have to be the expert in everything” to do it.

Aryanna Trejo (21:06):

And teachers are used to being the experts. Right? And they should be. And coding is just such a different landscape. But I think once you kind of give over to the power of tinkering, I think it’s really gratifying. I love being able to…you can revise a sentence, and then read your paragraph back to yourself in English, and say, “OK, I get it.” But there’s something so gratifying about changing a line of code or a block and then being able to hit play and watch your program come to life, and say, “Hmm, that’s not quite what I wanted. Let’s try something different.”

Eric Cross (21:39):

I love your connection to tinkering. ‘Cause—I had never thought about it—’cause I love tinkering with my hands. But I always think about physical things. But coding is exactly that. It’s tinkering.

Aryanna Trejo (21:47):

It’s exactly that.

Eric Cross (21:47):

That’s exactly what it is.

Aryanna Trejo (21:49):

And a lot of it is, for me, especially when I’m trying something new, it’s guess-and-check. It’s like, “OK, that didn’t work. What if I add a semicolon here? Will it finally work? Or what if I add a ‘for’ loop? Will this get me what I want?” And it’s wonderful because you have that with students as well. Like, you have that record of their thinking, and you can ask them to go step-by-step and tell you, you know, “First, I added this, because I wanted the program to do this,” and so on and so forth. And so you have that record, but you can always get rid of it. Students often wanna get completely get rid of it. That’s something that I’ve noticed a lot as I’ve taught computer science. But, once you can get them to target the specific parts of the program, tinker with that, and continue, that’s a really wonderful learning space. There was also something you said about modeling failure. I love the fact that in computer science you can model failure for your students. You said to your students, “I’m getting frustrated.” I love that, because I never got that in math. Nobody ever showed me what it was like to be frustrated with graphing a parabola. Right? Like, my math teachers were always like, “Doot, doot, doot, here you go, you’re done!” <Laugh> And I would get so frustrated, because it didn’t come that easily to me. And I think there’s two parts to that. So there’s modeling the learning and the thinking and the productive struggle, but also there’s the identity of being a computer scientist and modeling what that looks like. So for me, when I get really frustrated with a program, I walk away. I take five minutes. I take a deep breath. I say, “I’m not gonna think about it in these five minutes.” And I come back to it. And I think once you start teaching computer science, you can facilitate that for students. And there’s so many different strategies that they can pick up. They can pick up rubber ducking, which is where they pick up a rubber duck or a similar object, and they talk to it as if they were a partner and talk through their code. And oftentimes, as you’re rubber ducking, you’re gonna find that error, because you’re explaining it to someone who’s a stand-in for a novice. And rubber ducking is a well-known strategy for computer scientists who make it their career. You know, there’s pair programming. Some students love pair programming; some students hate it. But the students start to build this identity about how they problem-solve. And how they approach failure. And I just love that.

Eric Cross (24:31):

I’m writing this down. Because the rubber-ducking strategy, I love. I just imagine my seventh graders, a bunch of 13-year-olds with, like, rubber on the desk. And not necessarily in coding, but I was thinking in my science class. And they’re working through a challenge, and they’re all looking at this duck, and they’re talking to it. But I just love the the idea of externalizing your thought process and talking through it yourself so that you can hopefully arrive at a conclusion. But it’s such a great practice, and this is something that’s been around for a long time, apparently. So.

Aryanna Trejo (24:59):

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a real thing. And you know, you can go low-fi. It doesn’t have to be a rubber duck. You can have students talk to their pencils or their imaginary friends. That’s not the issue; the issue is, you know, talking to somebody.

Eric Cross (25:10):

I know you support teachers. But I just wanted to…I was just curious about your typical day, what that’s like. And then what you do, how you support ’em.

Aryanna Trejo (25:15):

So, at my previous job at 9 Dots, I was in there with the teachers in the classrooms. I was coaching our internal staff who went out to co-teach with teachers. And I loved that. And I had such a great impact on a local scale. But now at Code.org, I have a much broader impact. But I don’t get to interface with—that’s such a tech-y word!—I don’t get to interact with—

Eric Cross (25:42):

You work at Code.org! You get to—

Aryanna Trejo (25:42):

I know! But I’m a teacher at heart, forever, right? That’s my identity that I forged when I was 22 years old. And a typical day looks like opening up my computer, taking a look at my calendar. I often have meetings to talk about, different things that we’re doing to support our facilitators who go out to our teachers and lead their workshops for them. I recently worked on a product that was designed for CS principles, teachers, to onboard to the course if they weren’t able to get into an in-person workshop. And it’s completely self-paced, so it gives teachers an on-ramp into the course. And now I’m working on some in-person workshop agendas. So I feel really wonderful that my work is going out to thousands of teachers. But at the same time, I really, really miss talking to teachers. Because that’s something that energizes me so much.

Eric Cross (26:46):

When should students start learning computer science? I feel like we see it in this kind of narrow lane. Like, this is computer science if you make an app. Can it be more than that? As far as like the benefit of computer science? And—I guess two-part question—when should students, one, start being exposed to it? And then two, what are some of the benefits beyond just, “I wanna just make an app”?

Aryanna Trejo (27:08):

I taught coding to kindergartners. It can start as early as you as you want it to. And it doesn’t necessarily need to be on the computer. A lot of students that I worked with didn’t have computers at home, were interacting with computers for the first time. And that’s a huge barrier, of course, to a lot of teachers. But there are so many unplugged lessons that you can do to start to start to have students think about algorithms, which is just a series of steps to complete to solve a problem. As long as a student can use a computer, I think they can do computer science. There are products out there like codeSpark, where students—and Code.org has these products too—where students are moving an avatar around a board, kind of like a quadrant to…you know, they feed the directions to a computer and then the computer enacts it for them. And with that, they can learn algorithms. You know, that is computer science. And a lot of people don’t see it that way, but it really is. And it starts to set students up for more complex thinking as they move on.

Eric Cross (28:13):

One of the biggest underserved communities, geographically, are students in rural areas.

Aryanna Trejo (28:20):

Yep.

Eric Cross (28:21):

They can be reservations; they can be places just not an urban area. Is there a way to serve our communities of students and bring these skills in an unplugged way?

Aryanna Trejo (28:32):

Yeah. Yeah. If you typed in “unplugged computer science lessons” to Google, you’ll have a ton of hits. And there are so many students out there—not just in rural areas. But there’s incarcerated students. It hurts my heart to even say those words, but in urban areas too. Like in my classroom, where I only had four desktop computers. Access is a real struggle. And there’s things, like I said, instead of moving an avatar around a grid on the computer, I used to have an actual mat that I would take out to my kindergarten classrooms, lay it out, and it would have a grid on it. And we’d have one of the students act as the avatar and the rest of the students would give them directions to get to a different point on the grid. And there, you’re building an algorithm or just a series of steps. Like I said, it’s not some fancy term to solve a problem. And there’s multiple ways to solve that problem, too. And I think investigating that can be a really good way to stretch those lessons.

Eric Cross (29:32):

It almost sounds like an oxymoron, but this low-tech computer science strategy. Develop these skills and then transfer that once you have access to the tools.

Aryanna Trejo (29:39):

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it’s a good way for students who need kinesthetic means to start to understand something, or just different learning styles, to start transferring that over.

Eric Cross (29:53):

I probably have students in the classroom where those kinesthetic moving things would help be a great way—or WILL be a great way—for them to learn the principles and the fundamentals of coding. Instead of only giving the option to just do the computer, actually giving them some choice. Or giving them a way to be able to manipulate things. We’re still in the system of education that’s still very siloed. It’s been the same way for a hundred years. We got math and then we got science and we got English. I’m wondering, how can a teacher fit this into their daily lessons? And then, do you have any experiences or stories or things that you’ve seen, just really creative ways that you’ve seen teachers incorporate this? Outside the norm of, “This is a computer science class; we’re just gonna code.” But have you seen it branch out? In the trainings that you’ve done?

Aryanna Trejo (30:40):

I’ve seen examples of that. I’ve seen a teacher use Scratch to demonstrate different climates of California, and show the different climates. This past year for Hour of Code, my friend Amy—the one who helped me move to 9 Dots and at Code.org—she created this incredible tutorial called Poetry Bot. And it was a way to get students to match the mood of the poem to some of the elements that were happening in the stage. So they would have different backgrounds show up at different parts of the poem. When the words would show up, they would have different sprites show up. They would have, sometimes, sounds. Or the text would show up with different animations. So there are cross-curricular opportunities everywhere, if you can be creative enough to find them, or if you beg, borrow, steal from other educators who are doing this incredible work out there.

Eric Cross (31:36):

Yeah. I say this all the time, but I’m an educational DJ, not an MC.

Aryanna Trejo (31:44):

Oh yeah.

Eric Cross (31:45):

So MCs write their lyrics and DJs remix with things that other people have done.

Aryanna Trejo (31:48):

Absolutely.

Eric Cross (31:48):

I was like, I’m a DJ. I was like, all day. Sometimes I’ll write a lyric, once or twice, but most of the time I’m remixing things. So teachers, if you’ve been out there and you got an awesome interdisciplinary thing, or you’ve incorporated coding and it’s something that’s traditionally not seen, please send it to us. Share it with us.

Aryanna Trejo (32:03):

Yeah. And there are so many different places where you can find that. We have a forum for Code.org, but there’s also CSTA, the Computer Science Teachers Association. You can join your local chapter and get to know other computer science teachers out there.

Eric Cross (32:19):

I guess…to wrap up, I’ve been using Scratch programming, the MIT website. My students do the basic animated name, CS First, stuff. But over the years, I’ve noticed that my students are coming in with a higher level of sophistication in Scratch to where now the differentiation…some of my students are just doing very basic…and then I have other students who’ve created full-on video games with complex…like, you look at their Scratch page and it’s just an amazing amount of blocks and integrations and things that they have. Is there anything on Code.org that could be a next step? That takes them beyond, maybe like the visuals? And if so, what would be a good next step, to take students to advance them to another platform? There’s so many coding languages out there, I feel like. Or I might not even be thinking about that the right way.

Aryanna Trejo (33:20):

No, I think you are. You know, we have three different curricula out on our website right now. We have CS Fundamentals, which is probably more in line with what you’re talking about. We have a free CS Discoveries curriculum, and that is designed for, grades, I believe, 6 through 10. And that would be a really good entry point, for both teachers and for students.

Eric Cross (33:44):

There’s a lot of new stuff that I hadn’t seen yet, a few years ago.

Aryanna Trejo (33:49):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (33:49):

So I was really excited.

Aryanna Trejo (33:50):

One thing that I do know is that CS Discovery has just added an artificial intelligence slash machine-learning unit, that you can just pick up and give to your students. You don’t have to go in order with CS Discoveries, like you do with CS Principles. And I’ve gone through some of those lessons. They are really rad. And I would’ve loved to have learned that when I was in middle school or high school. So yeah, we’re constantly thinking of how we can make things one, relevant to our students, and two relevant to what’s going on in the world.

Eric Cross (34:20):

So would I be overselling it if I said, “If you go through this, you’ll be able to create an AI or a neural net to do all your homework”?

Aryanna Trejo (34:26):

You would be overselling it.

Eric Cross (34:27):

I would be? OK. So what I’ll do is, I’ll wait until the end of the school year, and then introduce it, and then by the time they’ve realized it’s not true, they’ll be eighth graders.

Aryanna Trejo (34:35):

There you go. Good old bait-and-switch.

Eric Cross (34:37):

You’re amazing. Thank you for serving teachers, and for being part of such a great organization that puts out great stuff. So much free curricula for teachers to be able to use. Especially nowadays we hunt and scour the internet for those types of things. And to be able to bring computer literacy into the classroom, and with your focus of serving communities of underrepresented groups, it feels good to know that not only is it high-quality material, but it’s also trying to raise everyone up. Because ultimately when we have more people trying to solve a common problem, we come up with better solutions. And I was talking to somebody who was a materials engineer somewhere in Europe, and he said one of the things about the U.S., As he was critiquing me on this flight, critiquing the U.S., He said, “One of the things about your country is that you have a heterogeneous group of people who, in a group, when you have multiple perspectives attacking a problem, you come up with more novel solutions.” He says, “That’s one of the great things, is that there’s not necessarily just a hive mind.” And I think that that’s one of the great things. We uplift different communities, and we uplift women, people of color, people who, have backgrounds that parents didn’t go to college but have these amazing qualities and strengths. And we put everybody focusing on the same issue. We come up with novel solutions that we wouldn’t have come up with if only select groups were trying to look at it and solve it. And so—.

Aryanna Trejo (36:22):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (36:23):

And we couldn’t do that without organizations like yours, that help empower teachers. So.

Aryanna Trejo (36:27):

Yeah! You really said it.

Eric Cross (36:29):

You’re coming to my classroom when you’re back in San Diego?

Aryanna Trejo (36:31):

Yeah! I totally will. Yeah. Let’s make it happen.

Eric Cross (36:34):

Last question. If you think back in your schooling, your own schooling, K through college, is there a person or a teacher that had a big impact on you? Or a learning experience that had an impact on you? And it could be, you know, positive or negative. But something that impacted you, even to this day, that stands out to you, that you remember?

Aryanna Trejo (36:56):

This is a big diversion from the topics that we’re talking about. But in grades 10 through 12, my drama teacher, Mr. Byler, who I still talk with, was such a huge impression on me. Really wonderful. And I couldn’t tell you the teaching moves that he did that were wonderful. I don’t know much about his management. But I can tell you that he gave me space to be confident, and grow into myself, through drama productions. They were high school productions, so they weren’t amazing. But I just really came into myself in high school, because I had the confidence to get on stage. And he was just such a wonderful mentor to all of us. So, props to Mr. Byler.

Eric Cross (37:39):

Shout out to Mr. Byler for creating space for Aryanna to fly! Thanks for making time, after your workday, to talk with us and to share Code.org with teachers.

Aryanna Trejo (37:54):

Of course. Happy to.

Eric Cross (37:59):

Thanks so much for joining me and Aryanna today. We want to hear more about you. If you have any great lessons or ways to keep student engagement high, please email us at stem@amplify.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And join our brand new Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community for some extra content.

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What Aryanna Trejo says about science

“I would hear teachers saying things like, ‘Well I just can’t do coding, it’s just too hard for me.’ And I would ask them…Would you say that to your student about math or English? Be as kind to yourself as you would be to your student.”

– Aryanna Trejo

Professional Learning Specialist, Code.org

Meet the guest

Aryanna is a member of the Code.org Professional Learning Team. Before joining Code.org, Aryanna led computer science professional development for K-6 teachers and served as an instructional coach for new educators. She also taught fourth and fifth grade in New York City and Los Angeles. In her spare time, Aryanna loves taking advantage of the California sunshine, creating wheel-thrown pottery, and hanging out with her dog Lola.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-09: Supporting K–8 science students in the digital world: Ricky Mason

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In this episode, Eric sits down with Ricky Mason, chief executive officer of BrainSTEM. Ricky shares his passion for inspiring students into science careers, and his path from an engineering career with organizations like the Department of Defense, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency to starting BrainSTEM, an education program that develops creative digital tools to enable all teachers and students to dive deeper into STEM content. Ricky and Eric talk about representation in science classrooms and the importance of embedding fun within K–8 science content! Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Ricky Mason (00:00):

I feel like comfort is where dreams go to die. And I’m still dreaming every night. So I’ll wake up, chasing them.

Eric Cross (00:08):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Ricky Mason. Ricky is an engineer whose career included lead roles at the Department of Defense, NASA, and the CIA. Ricky transitioned to education as an adjunct faculty at the University of Kentucky. And while there, he founded BrainSTEM, an edtech company that developed a 3D virtual reality metaverse for STEM education. Today, BrainSTEM serves public school districts, private schools, and nonprofits. And in this episode, we discuss what led Ricky to creating BrainSTEM Metaversity, and how he’s using the metaverse to transform STEM learning for students. And now please enjoy my conversation with Ricky Mason. How did you, so like maybe going back doing your origin story, maybe you can talk about it, but brother, you don’t sleep. Talk about keep making moves, your hashtag, I mean, I was looking at your LinkedIn profiles, looking at your details. You get after it. I was getting tired just reading it. I was like John Hopkins, electrical engineering, real estate, starting companies. You must have that gene where it’s like four hours of sleep and then you’re like, ready to go.

Ricky Mason (01:19):

Yeah, man. My mom told me if I didn’t stay busy, then I’m in trouble. So when I was about 14, she told me that. I said, well, Mama, I guess I’m gonna stay busy then. And yeah, man, that’s just been my life. I feel like if I don’t keep making moves, then I’m in trouble. So, feel like comfort is where dreams go to die and I’m still dreaming every night. So I’ll wake up chasing them.

Eric Cross (01:44):

I feel like a kindred spirit with you. So, were you always interested in STEM like, was there something like a moment or a year where you remember you were like, this is my jam. This is what I’m gonna get into.

Ricky Mason (01:57):

Yeah, man. When it really clicked for me was in the fifth grade. I was at a school assembly and an IBM engineer came in and he brought a robot and he programmed it with punch cards right on the stage. And I got the opportunity to come up andyou know, put one of the punch cards in the robot to program it. And I asked him, I’m like, what is your job? He said, I’m a robotics engineer. And I went home right after that assembly and I said, Mom, that’s what I wanna do, become a robotics engineer. And my mom would take me to the libraries. Well, I felt like I was getting outta bible study on Wednesdays by going to the library. So I went there and I started researching robots.

Ricky Mason (02:39):

And at the time the robots that were popular were all being sent to space. And it was the spiritless. It was being sent to Mars. And I said, Mom, well, I guess I gotta become an astronaut if I’m gonna be a robotics engineer. And that’s kind of what set me out on that dream. And my mom started trying to find outlets for me to get involved in STEM, but it was really tough to find those outlets, you know, especially in that fifth to eighth grade range here in Kentucky. So that was kind of where it started for me man, when I knew that yeah, engineering is what I wanna do.

Eric Cross (03:14):

What does an electrical engineer do? I imagine there’s different types of specialties, but like, was there something that you specialize in that you focused on or was it, is it just kind of like a generalist field?

Ricky Mason (03:23):

Yeah, so I would say, yeah, man, it’s a huge field. So you could be doing anything from, you know, power, like power coming into your house. So those large power systems all the way down to nanotechnology and microchips. I like to tell people I’m a real full stack engineer, so my wheelhouse is kind of from the PCD, the little green computer chips, all the way to the cloud. Over my career, I’ve had some pretty cool jobs. One of those things was I was a test engineer for the army. So I got to test weapons up at Aberdeen Proving Ground for the Army. So I got to drive those weapons and test them before they went to theater there. After that,I worked at United Launch Alliance down at Cape Canaveral where I launched five rockets.

Ricky Mason (04:07):

So I was a part of the electrical ground systems team there where we were responsible for all of the electrical systems on the rocket while it was on the pad. Somonitoring the temperature of the rocket, the fuel, the entire system for safety while it was on that pad. And then finally I worked at the CIA as a computer engineer building data centers and as a data center architect for some of our remote systems and virtualizing our systems. So kind of had a broad spectrum of things there. And then finally coming back to the University of Kentucky as a research engineer and faculty. I developed drone technology for monitoring crops. So flying drones over crops with LIDAR, just like self-driving cars with high-definition cameras to pull in data about those crops, to help farmers determine about pesticides fertilizers, and the overall health of their crops from a remote location.

Eric Cross (05:10):

It’s so neat to hear you talk about it and to see how this is all built up to what you do now with BrainSTEM. How would you explain what BrainSTEM is? I know that’s your, that’s kind of your baby right now and what you’ve been working on a few years.

Ricky Mason (05:23):

Yeah, man, we started BrainSTEM in 2019 officially, but I would say BrainSTEM has been almost 10 years in coming. While I was in undergrad, I played football at the University of Kentucky. But I got hurt going into my sophomore year and that kind of shattered my dreams of football. And that’s when I really got back into engineering. One of my professors asked me to come to a robotics competition and I saw these third graders and sixth graders programming robots. And I’m like, oh my God, they’re programming robots! And I had no idea how to code or what to do with these things. And where was this a when I was a kid? And so I immediately bought one of those robots and taught myself how to program it <laugh> and then we started a robotics team in Lexington,there at a church.

Ricky Mason (06:10):

And we got a sponsorship from Lexmark to start that team. And that was kind of my first leap into STEM and teaching STEM and creating programs for students in STEM. I did that in undergrad and like I said, fast forward 10 years later, I’m teaching at the University of Kentucky and we’re struggling to recruit STEM students. Why aren’t students going into STEM? I hear too many adults tell me, oh man, I wish I would’ve done engineering, or I started out in engineering, but I left engineering or I wish I could go back to school for engineering or learn to code. And I’m like, I asked them like, why didn’t you do this? What happened? And often it’s like, it was the math. It was, oh, I didn’t get into it until I was in college. And I’m like, well, that’s the key.

Ricky Mason (06:52):

I knew I wanted to do this in the fifth grade. And I started with a plan in the fifth grade to achieve these goals and dreams. And I started doing that research and realizing that the same problem existed that I had. There was no outlet for kids to get involved in STEM, and so many kids have an affinity for STEM an early age. So we started BrainSTEM to provide access to STEM education and exposure STEM careers, STEM professionals, and just to STEM fields as a whole, because too often kids may know about the term, engineer, or the term, scientists, but they don’t really know what those people do or have a strong connection with the field or have any hands-on projects that they kind of done around those things or met anyone like me.

Ricky Mason (07:42):

I didn’t meet an engineer until I was in college. So that has really been impactful for some of the students that we’ve been able to touch. I had a family reach out to me. They moved to Lexington from California and they were like, man, I really want my ninth-grade son to get involved in engineering. So we started a weekend program with that one student and it went amazing. Like we competed in science fairs, we applied for different college programs and things like that. So it became an entire like mentorship program. And I’m proud to say that a year ago, he actually graduated with his bachelor’s in electrical engineering from your side of town, UCSB. It was just awesome to actually see this come full circle. And that’s kind of one of the first things that we did before we actually formalized as BrainSTEM University.

Eric Cross (08:34):

What will be like your elevator pitch for a teacher? If you were gonna say, this is what BrainSTEM does. I have the luxury of going through it on the site, but since we’re on a podcast, how would you kind of pitch it to people letting them know, like what, what does it do? Who does it serve?

Ricky Mason (08:47):

Yeah. So BrainSTEM provides STEM curriculum and STEM magnets for schools and nonprofits looking to increase access to STEM for K through 12 students. We also have launched our BrainSTEM Metaversity, a metaverse product for teachers to take their 2D Google classroom and convert it into a 3D metaverse classroom where students can collaborate during a 3D class. So all of your students show up as their avatars that they can select from our inventory of 150 avatars, and enjoy class in a 3D gameified Minecraft like World.

Eric Cross (09:26):

So I made my avatar by the way. It’s kind of tight, I have to say, it’s kind of tight. Hey, I’m gonna share. So those of you in the podcasts I’ll share it so you can see it. You’re not gonna be able to see it right now, but since I have the man himself I gotta share it with him just so I can get a reaction. So can you see that?

Ricky Mason (09:43):

Yeah. <laugh> That’s so good.

Eric Cross (09:44):

I feel like I wanna look like him though. I want him in real life. Like I want be able to switch to looking like my avatar

Ricky Mason (09:52):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (09:54):

That was the first thing that I jumped on, when I went on your site, was making the avatar and I had so much fun doing it. I actually took longer than I probably wanna admit cause I was like customizing everything

Ricky Mason (10:03):

Yeah, man. It’s so fun. And that’s exactly what, you know, when you can show up as the person you want, it changes your whole being. I’ve seen kids that are quiet in class. They show up as their avatar and they’re talkative, they’re asking questions, they’re moving around the room, interacting with other kids. I feel like it’s almost like a superpower just to put your avatar on.

Eric Cross (10:25):

So what is something that a teacher could have their students go and learn or do if they, if they signed up,

Ricky Mason (10:31):

Let’s kick it off. So how we started with the metaverses, was teaching coding. So our first class was Minecraft and Python coding in the metaverse. So students showed up in the metaverse with our virtual instructor, that instructor led a lecture in the metaverse and then those students could collaborate on their Python games. So, they created and built the game in Python. We shared those games in the metaverse and we have our leaderboards that are in the metaverse, as they’re completing these challenges, including these games, then sharing them back in the metaverse with other students and getting that feedback on their game. So we’ve seen huge excitement from students when I can come back in and see my friend’s work. Like too often, students don’t get to see their work and that’s motivation to do better when I’m like, Jim’s gonna see my work. It’s amazing to see that motivation when students are sharing their work with other kids and not just their parent or just them and the teacher or seeing their grades. It’s been really cool to see.

Eric Cross (11:33):

You have that genuine audience too. Like that real-time feedback. And then like an authentic audience for students that makes everything seem, it takes it up a notch.

Ricky Mason (11:42):

Yeah, man. And then as we have built on this platform, so like you said with that avatar, so think if you created a really cool looking avatar and other students wanted to be that avatar, we have a way of sharing that avatar back into the world and in the inventory so that other students could then be your avatar. Or, if you create a world, we could then share that world back into the inventory, so the teacher could have class in a world that you created.

Eric Cross (12:07):

They’re creating content, not just consuming it. They’re actually creating content that could be shared across like grade levels or students.

Ricky Mason (12:14):

Well, we’re gonna say right now it’s just within your classroom. Eventually yes, we want students to be able to share that across school districts. At least we think that data will be probably limited to those kinds of realms as far as schools go. But you’ll be able to share this across sixth grade. We’ll be able to see what everyone in the sixth grade is doing in their STEM class or their game development class or their history class, per se, even if they’re giving back a presentation or what we have here in JCPS is backpack skills of success, where students are presenting on things that they’re learning that relate back to core competencies that the district is focused on. And I think that sharing those in the metaverse and doing those in the 3D world will be an awesome experience for students.

Eric Cross (12:56):

Are you seeing anything else as far as those skills that we see that are needed in coding? Is there something that the VR adds that was distinct from maybe just a kid with a Chromebook in his class that it’s just him in isolation doing the coding? Was there any like aha moments or surprises when they’re in the VR world doing this?

Ricky Mason (13:13):

I think the biggest thing is we could actually show them real examples of code working in other ways. Sofor example, if we’re working through loops, we can show them something looping. We can relate these functions to real-world things happening in the VR world so that they can see and better relate the actual concept with visuals, if that makes sense. So, you’re in loop Allen the whole time you’re learning about loops. You’re immersed in that kind of world. What we’ve seen is students really start to, you know, they it pick up and it clicks a lot faster because some of these concepts are so abstract for students to understand, when we can relate them to things in that world that they see that are in front of them, that they can grasp before we go to okay, type in “while” “”parentheses” <laugh> they can thenrelate that and pick up on those clues a lot better after they’ve seen those things in the world.

Eric Cross (14:09):

So they can actually visualize it in the metaverse. Whereas outside of it, it’s more just, just text-based coding and they’re not isolated. Like the first thing I’m thinking about is how like, with my own students, when they’re learning Sratch or Python, it’s not easy to share back and forth because they all are on individual accounts and they’d have to go on a different computer, or we’d have to find some way to publish it. And then all the kids would have to access it. But it sounds like in the metaversity classrooms, it’s easy for students in that same class to see each other’s work. Am I getting that right?

Ricky Mason (14:37):

Yeah. So most of our classrooms are limited to 24 students and in some of our breakout classrooms, we limit them to about eight students. Everybody can share their screen, so students can share their screen in the metaverse. They can share their video in the metaverse. They can share documents in the metaverse. They can share their, like I said, their code or anything that they want to share with other students. They can kind of do that. So it’s been a really cool product, I think, for students to almost find independence to work within a group, in an online setting. As they’ve been working through these problems online and remote it’s been really cool to see how they use the metaverse and break out. Even in a class, they can go off into a section because it’s all spacial. If you walk away, I can’t hear your conversation. So they can go into a little section within a metaverse class and have their own breakout. And a teacher can walk over to them. Okay. You guys are working over here. Let me walk to my next group. Just like in class. So it’s been really cool to see those students use the metaverse like that.

Eric Cross (15:41):

Just listening to you talk about this. One of the exciting things about emerging technologies or taking what the private sector does, and someone with a mind like yourself, and go, how do I use this for education? Like, that’s something that like excites me and you’ve run with it. But I just thought about, you’re doing an hour of code, you’ve created this metaverse, and you can bring in somebody, a professional into the metaverse, but they’re in, you know, the Bay area, but they could be a software engineer for Tesla or Google or anybody. Could they move around the metaverse and take a look at different students’ work and interact in that way.

Ricky Mason (16:17):

Yeah, man, we get in there. We make metaverse selfies. I drop Lambos in the metaverse, we take picture with Lambos. We have scavenger hunts in the metaverse. It’s a really awesome experience. And that’s one of the big things I think that is so powerful, is like you said, we could have that engineer, that celebrity, we could have Travis Scott, you know, in the world meeting thousands of kids motivating them because they met their STEM goals. They met their, you know, their testing school goals or whatever. These are things that kids really care about. If I get the Travis Scott avatar or the Elon Musk avatar, because I completed the Elon Musk rocket challenge, like that’s huge for me to show up in class as that avatar, like it’s just like Fortnite and it’s bringing all of those mechanics into the classroom.

Eric Cross (17:07):

When I hear you talk about the metaverse and I hear you talk about the potential of where you want to go with it, I think about my own students, and I think about, how they would really have a genuine interest and desire to want to do this and probably be doing it when they don’t have to, like at home at night wanting to go back into it and interact. And, you’re also building this virtual community. I mean, are you seeing that like, cause I’m hearing that?

Ricky Mason (17:28):

Yeah, man, building that community is huge. And I often tell people all the time, I want the STEM community to be just like the basketball community, the football community. I want students to have that camaraderie built around them for learning STEM and participating in STEM activities and competitions. Because when you see students out there at a robotics, they have the same zeal, the same, you know, everything that you find at a football competition. So we just have to get behind them and back those events with the same enthusiasm that we back sports. And that’s the environment that I want to create for STEM students and for that STEM community, because I longed for that community when I was in school. And like I said, I had it in football, but I wanted both. I wanted the best of both worlds. I wanted my robotics guys and my football guys to show up together here at the competition and have a good time.

Eric Cross (18:23):

You’re absolutely right. Like robotics STEM, these things, community helps fuel like people’s interest and working together. And it brings people from the outside who are seeking that community. Like, hey, my friends are doing this, I wanna kind of check it out. That’s how we recruit a wider swath of our population into it. So it’s not this kind of very narrow channel of folks who are going into STEM.

Ricky Mason (18:45):

If you can’t find that community. I mean for me, I felt like I was the only one playing football who was interested in robotics. So I never told anybody because I didn’t feel like that related to anybody within my vicinity. So I kept that to myself and that’s the biggest thing. I think if we get these kids just talking more about their interests, because a lot of them are interested in robotics and space and these STEM topics, but they don’t have anyone that’s really nudging them or asking them or piquing their interest in those spaces and saying, hey man, it’s okay to, you know, learn about robots. It’s okay to geek out on space. <Laugh> So that’s been my goal and that’s kind of why I felt like this was the time in my career for me to kind of do this, be a face for STEM education and inspire kids to chase their goals and dreams. Over my career, I’ve had some really cool jobs, but I felt like I could keep doing cool jobs, but I’m like at the right age to still connect with those students and inspire them to chase their dreams. And that’s why I feel like right now, man, it’s just an opportune time to get these students involved in STEM.

Eric Cross (20:01):

We don’t get that. Oftentimes, when we’re solely doing the cool job or simply in the private sector, we don’t get those experiences as much as we do when we’re able to actually serve our community or students or take our passion, our skill set, and use it to serve another person. I hear that like, as you describe what you’re doing now is like, there’s something beyond just, you know, the using your skills and doing cool stuff, but there’s something I hear. That’s helping people and actually doing something you believe in that resonates deeply in you. And I can hear it as you talk about it.

Ricky Mason (20:30):

It’s been just amazing to actually chart out that journey. Like I said, and like tell kids, like, no man, I’m from right up the block from you, cause I mean, I’m building this back at home in my hometown. And that’s the reason why I kind of came back to kind of do that in my hometown, because I really want to, you know, relate to those students and inspire, you know, students here. Nobody thinks about technology coming out of Kentucky and that’s been a gift and a curse, I guess, with launching BrainSTEM in Kentucky. When I first started, I said, we’re a STEM education company, people are asking me what is STEM? So, that was where we started out with this in 2019, all the way to, you know, hey, in 2020, we’re gonna launch a metaverse. A metaverse! What is that? It’s been amazing to try to change the minds of not only Kentuckians about STEM and the importance of STEM, but the world that a metaverse company is coming outta Kentucky. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (21:31):

The work that you’re doing and, it exists beyond you and you probably know this, but as a Black science educator out here in San Diego … We don’t see people who look like all of us in this work often, and I saw that you had created something, a network group, network and chill. And that was one of the things, we had touched on community, but I thought that that was so huge because we need each other.

Ricky Mason (21:55):

I feel like that was the biggest thing for us in engineering. Like I showed up to my first internship and I’m like, I mean, my boss was cool. Everything else was cool, but I just didn’t feel like, hey, this is a community for me. And I almost changed my major because of that. But I’m glad that I didn’t, it’s huge to have more of us represented in, in these spaces.

Eric Cross (22:16):

And you know, in engineering, especially when we look at the disproportionate, you know, men versus women. Like it’s not, you know, it’s not just culture, but it’s, you know, gender, all of these different things. And if we’re gonna change it, I think a program like yours that gets exposure to all kids and then giving them choice. What advice would you give to students? Or what advice I should say, do you give to students now? When you see like your younger self in the different kind of K12 grades who are thinking about their futures or they’re thinking about STEM, what do you say to them?

Ricky Mason (22:46):

So my biggest advice, man is start now. Whatever that big thing is, that big dream is that you have, what is that now? You’re thinking about planes. You’re thinking about robots. You’re thinking about RC cars, whatever that is. Let’s start now. Let’s get your hands on an RC car. Let’s take it apart. Let’s start coding. Let’s start thinking about those problems now. But the biggest thing is, is getting kids used to solving tough problems. Typically, most students that have an affinity for, you know, STEM — and you just know that that kid’s gonna go into, STEM — they’re problem solvers. They’re typically looking and seeking those tough problems and seeking opportunities to learn. That’s where I feel like it’s parents’ jobs to provide that environment to foster, that zeal. A five-year-old kid, we started our STEM program with them at the beginning of this month.

Ricky Mason (23:39):

The first day I came in after I told him I was a rocket scientist. And now he’s like, well, I wanna be a pilot. I said, if you pay attention to this class, we’re gonna get you started on your way to being a pilot. And he knows all the parts of a rocket and he knows a rocket needs an oxidizer. And he knows the fuselage, the wings, the wing flaps. He knows all the different parts of the plane and how the forces, the drag, the lift, the weight, he knows how those are working cause we talked about those in class and he has so much more confidence and it came all to fruition when a kid said, wow, I thought it was gonna be really hard to be a robotics engineer. And I’m like, no, that’s not gonna be that hard. That is exactly what we set out to do when we started BrainSTEM, was to break down those barriers and those walls and build that confidence and say, look man, you can do this. It’s easy.

Eric Cross (24:26):

Society doesn’t help much either because one of our terms, right, if something’s really hard, or if something’s not hard, we say it’s not rocket science. That implies that rocket science is really hard and inaccessible. If kids would hear that it kind of instills in their brain, okay. It’s really hard, it’s probably too hard for me. To that point to parents, it sounds like a lot of just exposure, like giving students the opportunity to be able to be exposed to these things and letting them create wonder from it.

Ricky Mason (24:51):

Yeah, man. I often tell parents we’re gonna set kids up to go pro no matter what,

Eric Cross (24:56):

And those skill sets transfer, whether they decide to go into coding or they decide to manage a bank, you’re still gonna be dealing with people. You’re still gonna be problem-solving. You’re still gonna have to come up with creative solutions to things. It sounds like through a program like this, they learn those skills early.

Ricky Mason (25:12):

Yes. And I think that one thing that parents don’t think about … We talk about all the STEM and we want smart kids, but we need those soft skills also within STEM. So those competitions, getting them involved in those communities with STEM students is really huge in presenting their ideas because oftentimes, you know, our STEM guys, we’re in a lab working and that’s where we love and that’s where we wanna be because we haven’t, you know, been prepared to talk and present our ideas. So I think that’s a huge part of what we have to teach our STEM students. And we do that by providing that community and those opportunities for them to, you know, do that.

Eric Cross (25:47):

Thinking about where you are now, looking back on your K-12 education, were there any teachers that stood out to you or that inspired you as I even just say that, can you think of a particular teacher or one or two?

Ricky Mason (26:00):

When I think about my teachers, my teachers really taught me to solve those tough problems and those subjects that you don’t kinda like <laugh>, cause I was always a great student, but my teachers helped me to focus on those subjects that I didn’t so much, you know, enjoy. So I enjoyed math and science, but English social studies, like why do I have to be here? I had two teachers during my high school career that really supported me in that regard, and helping me to be the best student all aroundfrom like I said, STEM to English and social studies, and making me realize that I have to be a well-rounded student if I’m gonna be truly successful. As far as engineering, man, I would say one guy, my teacher, Nick Bazar up at John Hopkins. During my master’s there, I had a really cool project. I got to do data forensics on a real live murder case. <Laugh> That was really inspiring because I’m like, wow, this is real life where my coding skills are being used in a jury trial <laugh>. And so that was a really cool experience to partner with my professor to kind of do that. I mean, that was just mind blowing that I got to help with that and that, I mean, he was using his programming skills to help solve a murder case.

Eric Cross (27:22):

What’s the best way for people to connect with you and follow your journey? And if a teacher’s interested and they’re listening to this and they’re hearing, okay, this metaverse coding thing sounds awesome, I want to get involved, I wanna know more, where can people go? What steps should they take to be able to get connected to you and what you’re doing?

Ricky Mason (27:40):

Yeah. So you can check us out at brainSTEMu.com, that’s brainSTEM, the letter “u” dot com and on all social medias, we’re BrainSTEMu or BrainSTEM University. Teachers, right now, we are doing our free course for teachers. So sign up at brainstemu.com. You can sign up for your class to get into a free metaverse experience, just so you can kind of check it out and get your class into the metaverse and see how your students like the metaverse, how you like teaching in the metaverse and convert one of your 2D lessons from Google classroom into a metaverse classroom. For me, I’m Ricky Mason, 5 0 2 on all social media platforms. So you can just type that in Ricky Mason502 and get with me there.

Eric Cross (28:28):

Nice. Well Ricky, I wanna thank you for sharing your story and creating BrainSTEM. And then for, I know you’re a man of tremendous talents and skills and accomplishments, and you’re focusing all that on not only being back in your community, but also creating something for younger versions of you and opening up opportunities that they might not otherwise have, as you said, folks are like, what is STEM? And that is exactly where we need those seeds planted. So thank you for doing that.

Ricky Mason (28:55):

Oh man, this is awesome. I appreciate you, man for hosting this podcast and providing this platform and sharing the message of, you know, educators and people in the space.

Eric Cross (29:07):

Thanks so much for joining me and Ricky today. Make sure to support Science Connections by subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts. And you could hear more from Ricky in our Facebook group, Science Connections the community, where you can check out all the exclusive content. Until next time.

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What Ricky Mason says about science

“We just have to get behind [students] and back them with the same enthusiasm that we back sports…because I longed for that community when I was in school.”

– Ricky Mason

CEO, BrainSTEM

Meet the guest

Ricky Mason is the dynamic CEO and founder of BrainSTEM, an ed-tech company that developed a metaverse for education. His corporate career included lead engineer roles at the DoD, NASA, and CIA. Ricky transitioned to education as adjunct faculty at the University of Kentucky. While there, he started BrainSTEM to bring innovative technology and an inspirational curriculum to STEM education. Today, BrainSTEM serves public school districts, private schools, and nonprofits.

Follow Ricky on all social media @rickymason502

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Check out another episode from Science Connections!

S1-02: Community and joy within K–8 science instruction: Desiré Whitmore

Promotional graphic for "Science Connections" Season 1, Episode 2 featuring Desiré Whitmore, focusing on community and joy in K–8 science instruction.

In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he sits down with physicist and science education specialist, Desiré Whitmore. Listen in as Desiré explains her work at the Exploratorium, a public learning laboratory. Eric and Desiré discuss finding passion in science, the importance of meeting students we’re they’re at, and K–8 science instruction with real-life connections. Desiré chats with Eric about her work on supporting the science of teaching science content at the Exploratorium museum.

Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Desiré Whitmore (00:00):

I think it’s really amazing when we can realize as teachers, like, no, our job is not to just enforce rules on our students, right? Our job is to help students to achieve more learning.

Eric Cross (00:37):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Desiré Whitmore. Desiré has held positions as a science curriculum specialist with Amplify Science, a professor of laser and photonics technology at Irvine Valley College, and is now the senior physics educator in the Teacher Institute at the Exploratorium in San Francisco. Her current work is focused on providing support and professional development to middle and high school science teachers to help them teach through inquiry. In this episode, we discussed Desiré’s pathway into physics, the impact of educators in her life, and the importance of representation for students in the classroom. I’m so excited for you to meet my physicist friend, Dr. Desiré Whitmore. All right. So just like a superhero, STEM superhero, you have an origin story and so—

Desiré Whitmore (01:36):

How long is this podcast gonna be? ‘Cause, you know, I can talk for days, so you—

Eric Cross (01:40):

I know, I know! But it’s, it’s…so, OK. We can give us a highlight. So, you know, 30 minutes. But what would be the origin story? You can start from any point in time, but what’s that journey like?

Desiré Whitmore (01:51):

I’m gonna start at the beginning, when I was really young, just because I think it’s important. Neither of my parents were college-educated. My mother didn’t finish high school. My father went back and got a GED later. But my father’s grandmother, her name was Claudia Pairs, and she was a teacher, right? So when I was a kid, she actually kind of raised me from, I don’t know, until I was around seven or eight. And so she was very important in who I became, I think because she taught me that college is important and she taught me to think. She taught me to ask questions. She taught me how to ask questions. Just the Exploratorium likes to do. Which is why I fit so well here. She taught me to always wonder and always think about things. And I remember as a kid, she taught me to count and read and write when I was, like, three. And she would always have bubbles at her house. And I was obsessed with bubbles. I thought bubbles were the coolest thing in the world. And just how you can take your breath and create this thing that now you can see, and it’s your breath, right? It’s your breath inside of a bubble and it’s flying around and it has all these cool colors, and then it would fly up and then eventually just pop. And you’re like, where did it go? Now my breath is just up there. Not understanding, as a kid, but my breath is always everywhere. I didn’t understand any of that, but I understood that my breath was inside of a bubble. That’s my earliest memory of thinking about science, was from that. And she was not a science teacher. She was—I don’t even know what she taught. I think she was an elementary school teacher, maybe. She died when I was 12. So I don’t have super-strong memories or of understanding who she was, only that she raised me and what she taught me as a kid. But that in itself really helped me because then when I was in the environment that I was in at home with my parents, which was not at all the environment she provided for me, I always had the things she taught me in my head, right? So I was always asking questions. My mother hated it. I was always taking things apart and putting them back together. So I used to take apart TVs and VCRs and vacuum cleaners and telephones, and my mother’s like, “Oh my God, I’m gonna murder you.” And she tried a couple times, too.

Eric Cross (04:25):

Did you ever put ’em back together and realize you had extra parts? You’re like, oh, hi.

Desiré Whitmore (04:29):

Oh yeah. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. VCRs have a lot of extra pieces. You’re like, “What do you even…it still works. It’s fine.” <laugh> You know? And vacuum cleaners too. They had a lot of extra parts, <laugh> all the time. And TVs. I should not have been playing with TVs. But like I said, I didn’t have a lot of parental, guidance as a child. So, like, whatever—I’m opening up TVs.

Eric Cross (04:54):

There’s a lot of open inquiry going on in your household. Yeah. Unsupervised.

Desiré Whitmore (04:59):

Unsupervised. But I didn’t know what it was or what it meant as a kid. I mean, I used to put things in the microwave. I did so many microwave experiments as a child, trying to cook different foods or melt different things. And so I think those kinds of experiences, where I was allowed to just be curious, kind of shaped who I am today. And then I kind of got into…you know, when I was in school, I loved math. In 10th grade, I had my first Black teacher, he was my chemistry teacher. His name was Mr. Strickland. And I was like, chemistry is cool, dude. And he was not the best teacher, but he was fun. Like you were saying, he was me, and he was talking to us the way I speak. And he was so like, just kind of chill and happy-go-lucky, I guess. But he wasn’t…he hadn’t taught chemistry in a long time. So he wasn’t a very good teacher. And me and one other kid in the class were in love with chemistry. And so we would read the book and do all the homework and he’d be in class lecturing and we’re like, “That’s not right, Mr. Strickland, like, what are you talking about?” And then he’d be like, “Oh, really, Desiré? Do you wanna teach the class, then?” And I’d be like, “Yeah.” And so I would go up and I would teach my chemistry class in high school, because the teacher was trying to make an example out of me. But he was also, I think, willing to be like, “I really don’t know.” And I really appreciated that. That he wasn’t just like, “I know all of the answers and you’re wrong.” Like, he wasn’t being a jerk, right? Like, the fact that I said, “Yes, I do wanna teach it,” and he actually let me do it? That’s pretty dope. And then I liked physics in my senior year in high school, but I didn’t think it was where I was gonna go or anything. I loved music and I loved math. Those were my two subjects.

Eric Cross (06:51):

What was it about math that resonated with you?

Desiré Whitmore (06:55):

I think it helped me understand the world a lot better. I didn’t have strong science teachers, I guess, growing up. It was a lot of reading out of books or watching laser discs in class. That’s how old I am.

Eric Cross (07:12):

Laser discs.

Desiré Whitmore (07:13):

Laser discs. And you know, so there wasn’t a lot of…I moved around a lot as a kid. I didn’t have this straight curriculum. You know, in one year, in the third grade, I went to three different schools.

Eric Cross (07:25):

Mm. Oh wow.

Desiré Whitmore (07:26):

It was kinda hard for me to latch onto school. But with math, because I could look at math and actually understand the world in it, I could see how math can be used to describe how things work.

Eric Cross (07:40):

I almost imagine, especially with so much transition in your life, it helped make sense of things. You had a lot of transition going on, but you were able to understand the world through the process of math. And then this early exposure, it kind of reminds me my own story too. Because there were these books that would do these cross sections of a cruise ship or a machine; that’s what got me really into engineering. Kind of How Stuff Works. I would watch that on Nova, How Stuff Works. I’d always be fascinated. Even Sesame Street had a segment where they would show you crayons and how the dye was added. You remember that?

Desiré Whitmore (08:19):

Yep. Yeah.

Eric Cross (08:20):

Young Desiré, doing photronics…photronics?

Desiré Whitmore (08:24):

Photonics.

Eric Cross (08:24):

Photonics. Photonics at home with the microwave and all these other things.

Desiré Whitmore (08:29):

Sure. How ’bout that.

Eric Cross (08:30):

<laugh> Right. And then loving math. So, early, I could see this combination, sort of this alchemy, happening inside you. And then, how did that lead to you becoming a physicist?

Desiré Whitmore (08:46):

It’s not as straightforward as it seems it should be. It’s obvious to everyone. <laugh>. But it wasn’t obvious to me. ‘Cause I wanted to be a lawyer. You know, because my parents weren’t educated, they didn’t really know…both of my parents and their subsequent spouses when they broke up—so my parents and my stepparents—are all bus drivers. And so they don’t know what options are. Right? So for them it’s like, “You have to be—you can be a doctor. You can be a lawyer. ‘Cause you’re smart. I know you’re smart, so you’re gonna be one of those things.” And I was like, “I don’t wanna be a doctor. That’s not actually interesting to me.” I did wanna be a teacher when I was younger, because I knew that my grandmother was one. But yeah, I went in and I was like, “I’m gonna be a lawyer. I’m gonna be a lawyer.” And then I go to college and I was like, ‘Eh, I don’t. I hate writing.” <Laugh> Like, I love reading, but I don’t writing. So I don’t think I wanna be a lawyer. I love music and I love math. I was originally going to major in music and math, but then I went to community college because I missed my opportunity to go to university for…long story. And so I’m at community college and I was like, “You know what? I’m gonna just do something new. I’m gonna be a marine biologist.” So my major was marine biology, and then they’re helping me pick out my classes. And they had zero math there. And I was like, “Pardon me. I think there’s a mistake, but I’m not taking any math.” And they were like, “No, you’re done with all your math. For marine biology, you only need calculus. And you took all of that in high school, so you’re done.” And I was like, “No, this is not gonna work for me, dude.” So I continued taking calculus anyway and moving on in math. And then I realized that biology wasn’t what I needed, but I did love my chemistry and I loved my physics classes. So I asked those teachers—chemistry, physics, and math teachers in community college, my professors—”I don’t wanna be a marine biologist and I don’t wanna be a lawyer. What do I do? What do you think I could study? I really like chemistry and math and physics.” And so all of them, all three of these professors told me, “Oh, it sounds chemical engineering would be good for you, so you should be a chemical engineer.” And I was like, “OK, cool. No problem.” That’s what I did. So I got my degree in chemical engineering. Right. And I finished community college, studying chemical engineering. I was like, “This is really cool. This is a lot of fun. I love engineering.” And then I transferred to UCLA as a chemical engineering major. And I was like, “I hate this.” <Laugh>. “I hate it a lot.” It was just…

Eric Cross (11:07):

What was it about chemical engineering that you were just not feeling anymore? What was it that just made you go, “nope”?

Desiré Whitmore (11:12):

It didn’t—at least the way it was taught to me—it wasn’t as as…exploratory, I guess. There wasn’t a lot of theory in it. There was just a lot of “OK, pull out a ruler and you’re gonna draw a thing and then this is how you’re gonna build a reactor.” And it didn’t seem very scientific to me. The science was missing. And don’t get me wrong, I understand, now that I have a degree in chemical engineering, that it’s not that chemical engineering is not scientific. But it’s that you build up the science and then you don’t focus on it. You focus on the engineering aspect of it. Which is, you have the science and the scientists will work on that aspect. But then how can WE do kind of larger batch chemistry. And for me, that was just less interesting. It was a lot of pushing buttons and just plug-and-play equations stuff. Instead of diving into first principles of why things happen in chemical engineering. There was no “why things happen”; it was “this is what happens, so this is the next step.”

Eric Cross (12:25):

You had to go so far into your academic career to realize that this is what chemical engineering is. And we were talking about representation, and not having examples or parents; your families were bus drivers. My mom was a receptionist and executive assistant, things like that. And I was the first of many, like you…we kind of had to go through and invest all this time and money to finally get to this place to realize, “This ain’t it.”

Desiré Whitmore (12:58):

This is not for me, yeah.

Eric Cross (12:59):

This is not for me. That was a long journey to get to that point.

Desiré Whitmore (13:03):

It was. Especially because I went through community college and I took a long time in community college, ’cause I was working full-time. So I was working full-time, going to community college. Took me a while. And then I finally get to UCLA. I’m like, “Yeah, I’m finally gonna get my degree and go make money!” And then I was like, “Ooh, no.” I mean, I could go and make money, don’t get me wrong. I could have graduated and made a ton of money. But I was not happy at all and I did not enjoy what I was doing. So, while I was in undergrad, I realized I don’t wanna do chemical engineering anymore. But what do I wanna do? But then I was taking…I took a quantum mechanics class. And that class blew my whole mind. And I was like, “This is the coolest thing that I’ve ever learned in my life, and this is what I wanna do.” And so I went and talked to my professor and I was like, “Can I work for you? Can I do research? Because this is amazing and I wanna do this.” I felt it was too late for me. I had been in school for so long and I was already kind of burnt out. So I was, “I’m not going to change my major. That’s just outta the question for me right now. It costs so much money for this degree and I don’t have—I’m not just gonna waste my time and keep working all these jobs.” So I had three jobs in college. And it was like, I worked at Radio Shack, I did research for this professor, and I worked in the library, the chemistry and physics library.

Eric Cross (14:28):

I love the fact that we’ve talked about laser discs; you said Radio Shack; and we talked about the analog internet of the encyclopedia salespeople. And I know all of those things. And I’ve been through all of those things together.

Desiré Whitmore (14:43):

Just in case people don’t know how old I am. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (14:47):

For our listeners who are way younger, yeah, this is how we grew up. This is how we—these things are extinct now. There’s this element of this kind of cultural connection. I think that we experience that. It kind of it flies under the radar. People don’t really realize it until you’re in an environment that’s different from what you’re used to. And you realize that, “Oh wow. this is not what I’m used to.” And the things that I’m finding funnier, the things that I connect with, it’s not what everybody else connects with. And as a teacher, it’s the same thing, right? Like, we go in the classroom and you know, you and I are rapping about laser discs and Radio Shack and I’m trying to talk to my kids about it. And they’re like, “Yo, Cross, what is that? Are you gonna give us a history lesson? What are these things?”

Desiré Whitmore (15:35):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (15:36):

And I found myself having to stay connected to pop culture, because I teach 12- and 13-year-olds all day. And it’s great for keeping things relevant for my students. But when I talk to my friends that are my peers, they’re like, unless they’re a teacher, they’re like, “I got no idea what you’re talking about.”

Desiré Whitmore (15:55):

Yeah. I have a friend who’s also a middle-school teacher and she’s always coming to me with all this. I’m like, “What are you talking about?” She did the Glow-up Challenge, but she did the Glow-down Challenge. So she invented a new thing. She’s like, “No, I couldn’t do Glow Up ’cause that’s too much. So I did the Glow-Down Challenge.” And it’s the cutest thing ever. And the students think it’s amazing. And I’m like, “That’s awesome. But I have no idea what the point of that is.” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (16:21):

And there’s this theme, too, that when we talk about teaching kids STEM, there’s this soft part of it, this relational piece of it that you mentioned, of this connective aspect that in a certain way kind of even superseded the content knowledge that your teacher even had at that point, where you’re going up and teaching the class. But just the fact that someone looked like you or spoke like you or connected with you in a certain way made a big difference to who you are as…well, the trajectory of where you went.

Desiré Whitmore (16:57):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (16:57):

“I like chemistry. It resonates with me.” And it’s something I think can get lost. And I think just to kind of a good segue, I use Amplify my classroom, and one of the reasons why is because of the representation that is in these videos. And you were part of crafting this for…was it the fifth grade?

Desiré Whitmore (17:21):

I mean, it was K–8. So I was—

Eric Cross (17:23):

OK, so you were doing the whole thing.

Desiré Whitmore (17:24):

Yeah, I was a part of the K–8 science team. My title was science curriculum specialist. But in reality I was hired to do the engineering internships, mostly. Which are middle school. And to be a sim developer. So sims K–8. I worked on several of them in both middle school and elementary. Yeah.

Eric Cross (17:47):

What was that like for you? When you were designing curriculum? ‘Cause as a teacher, it’s, you know, I think with teachers it’s kind of…I would consider myself, if I was gonna use hip hop as a metaphor, I’m more of a DJ than an MC. Where I wanna remix things that exist, versus, I don’t wanna write the lyrics in freestyle. So I don’t want to go and write the curriculum completely; I wanna take something that’s solid and then I want to go ahead and remix it. You are great at both. What was the process for you, being on that team, designing? How did you go about making, “OK, we’re gonna create this experience for kids”?

Desiré Whitmore (18:25):

It was, it was amazing. I learned so much, so much. It was the best job I had before I came to the Exploratorium. The process was amazing, because it wasn’t just me, right? It wasn’t just me. It was a whole team. And each unit had its own team. So we had a scientist, which I was the scientist we had. So we had a scientist; we had a literacy specialist, because it was really important to increase science literacy so that students understand not just that science exists, but “What are the terms that are used in science and how can I speak and act a scientist? What are the things that scientists actually do in their real life?” Then we had an assessment specialist and then we had a simulation specialist. And so, on the units that I was on, sometimes I was both the sim developer and the scientist, or sometimes I was just the sim developer and I got to work alongside another scientist, which was always fun. And so it was really nice, because I was working alongside master teachers. People who had been teaching for years, and they were able to help me better understand. ‘Cause I’ll come in and I’ll be like, “Yeah, there’s a unit on light waves, let’s come in and teach this unit on light waves!” <laugh> I was the sim developer and scientist on that unit, and there was another scientist working on the unit, but they were like, “Well, Desiré literally builds lasers, so I think she should be the science developer.” So we kinda had two science developers on that one, which was fun. But I come in and she’ll come in and she’ll be like, “Yeah, I think this is where we wanna go and this is what we wanna teach.” I’m like, “No way! Like, that’s not accurate, right?” And so I can come in, but then I’m coming in with all this crazy lingo, right? I’m up here. But then also I have taught kids about lasers and optics and photonics my whole career. So I’m also very capable of bringing it down to where kids need it to be. What I don’t know is how effective that is, right? When to do it and when not to do it. When to bring the level up; when to bring the level down. And so working alongside these other teachers and assessors really helped me to do that. And so for me it was just two years of deep learning experience. I learned—every single day at work, I learned something new. Which is something that I value and I’ve wanted in my career, my whole life. We made active decisions in that room. Like, “We want to interview scientists who are scientists of color or who have different abilities or who have different representations in all kinds of ways.” Right? And then we also have these fake internships, or not even the internships, but just in the general units. And we actively wrote scripts for those. And we actively wrote in those scripts, like, “This is a Black woman. This is an Indian woman. This is a Jewish man in a wheelchair.” Like, we specifically dictated exactly who we wanted in these videos, because we knew that representation was super-important and we knew that we wanted students to be able to connect.

Eric Cross (21:35):

Right. One of the things, I appreciate what I’m hearing a lot in that is the amount of intentionality that went into this. But even now as you’re reliving it, you’re still almost iterating on how could we improve it or how can we make it different or reach more people. And I think that goes towards when we’re talking about including more people and inclusion. Like, it’s not a binary thing. You’re always modifying; you’re always iterating; you’re always redesigning and improving to be more inclusive, to reach more students. Because you know, to your point, part of it is, “Yes, we wanna do this really awesome science curriculum,” but the other part of it is there’s more to it than just your content. And I think now more than ever…I use—we just finished the food bar unit. Metabolism. And in there there’s a simulator. They always ask me when I show the videos, “Are these, are these real people? Are these real situations?” And I tell ’em, “Well, the story is real, but these are all fictional actors. But what’s actually happening happens. It’s real.” And they get really into it. And I think one of the other things is with your simulations—especially the engineering units—there’s no one right answer. And so my students who want to go, “Mr. Cross, I wanna make the best bar! Perfect 10, best taste, cheapest!” And I’m like, “All right, good luck!”

Desiré Whitmore (23:06):

Yeah. Go do that.

Eric Cross (23:09):

Casue there’s something called trade-offs! It could happen! And they’re like, they’re trying. They get into the code. They try to open up the Inspect Element, when they feel like hackers.

Desiré Whitmore (23:17):

Yeah, they do. But these kids like, they’re so smart and they’re so resourceful. And I’m just thinking like, maybe that’s how we challenge them more, right? Sometimes we can give them these kinds of things where it’s like, “Go and create a program, ’cause that’s the level you’re at <laugh>. Go and create this program to do something similar that’s related to the work that we’re doing.”

Eric Cross (23:38):

I’ve had some of my own students redesign—I have one student who redesigns every assessment I give him. I give the project; I give the options for the final goal; and he always chooses—if I give three options, he always chooses option four. If I choose two options, he’s choosing option three. And so he’ll go into Google Sheets, he’ll pull all the data and then he’ll construct his own kind of spreadsheet with all the probabilities of different things.

Desiré Whitmore (24:06):

You tell this kid to make a GitHub right now <laugh> so that he can get a job as soon as he’s done with high school. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (24:12):

He’s amazing. And we did this one project where students had to design a Netflix show to show their understanding of metabolism. And they had to do four episodes. So I gave him a template. It’s not from me; it’s from, I think, EdTechPicks.org or something. And it looks like the whole Netflix splash page. They took photos, did the whole deal. He created NOTflix. Everyone else did Google Slides. His Google Slides was interactive. So when you clicked on different boxes, it actually took you to the next splash page of that show. I mean, it was….

Desiré Whitmore (24:48):

That’s fantastic.

Eric Cross (24:49):

It was, it was. I recorded his presentation. It was brilliant.

Desiré Whitmore (24:53):

But that’s amazing. And that speaks to your strengths as a teacher and why you’re an amazing teacher. Because you see the students and what they’re trying to do and you work with them; you meet them where they are. Right? There are so many teachers who would just be frustrated with that student. And it’d be like, “No, these are not your options. Your option was to do what I told you to do.” And there are many teachers who would do that. And I think it’s really amazing when we can realize as teachers, “No, our job is not to just enforce rules on our students. I mean, that is part of the job, because that’s what school was when it was created. But our job is to help students to achieve more learning in what we’re trying to do. And so the fact that you are so good with this student and that you encourage him to go above and beyond when he can, I think it’s so amazing.

Eric Cross (25:49):

Well, that brings me to my favorite group, organization, and the phase of your career of where you are now: The Exploratorium. And I wanted to kind of rap, talking about what you do now. Because the Exploratorium—I tell people, they go, what is that place? And maybe you can tell us what it is and then what you do. But for me, I’ll just tell everybody: It’s Disneyland for science teachers. And I love going there. I not only love going there because of what I receive from it professionally. Many of the PDs, I don’t even call ’em PDs—just communal learning experiences, that I’ve had that have been led by you and Lori and, and Tammy and the rest, and everybody that’s there have been incredible. And I have so much fun. Emotionally, I get excited when I go. When I’m on the plane, I’m like, “Here we go!” And then we go and we’re making fudge or we’re blowing darts with marshmallows across the room in the theme of Boba Fett. There’s just these rad things that are going on there. And it’s not like anything I’ve ever experienced before. So maybe we can close with talking about what the Exploratorium is, what you do there, for people who’ve never been and have been a part of it.

Desiré Whitmore (27:19):

I’m gonna give you what my definition of the Exploratorium is.

Eric Cross (27:21):

That’s what we want.

Desiré Whitmore (27:22):

So, the actual definition is, we are a public learning laboratory. We are known as the Museum of Art, Science and Human Perception. Cool. But, like, what does that all mean? Right? And I think your description of the Disneyland for science teachers, I think that’s a perfect description. ‘Cause for me, I tell people like, “Oh, I wanna go to the happiest place on earth.” And for me, that is the Exploratorium. And yes, I work there, and yes, it’s still true for me. So the Exploratorium is this huge museum. It’s an interactive science museum. And art—we have a lot of art. And it’s all about learning through doing. It’s not about learning science by going up to an exhibit and reading the little paper next to it. It’s like, no, you go up to an exhibit and you interact with it and you teach yourself science. The goal of the Exploratorium is really to help people understand that learning science, doing science, isn’t reserved for only scientists. Doing science is something that everyone in the world should and does do. And so helping people understand that everything we do is science is kind of the point of the Exploratorium to me.

Eric Cross (28:35):

Even the building itself…one of the other cool things too is, for people that don’t know, it’s the size of Costco or two.

Desiré Whitmore (28:43):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (28:44):

It’s immense! And even the building itself teaches. Like, you have that whole workshop, dead-center in the middle of the floor where they’re designing things. It’s like inside-out. And then I remember going to the one experience where I think it was Eric who showed us that it’s one of the few facilities that is actually cooled by the Bay water. And there’s only a couple of those in the state that can do that. And it has a platinum rating, something wild that. So even just the building itself…everything that if they can extract every ounce of science teaching in that, it’s in there. And you are in a very important program for me. And can you talk a little bit about maybe what you’re doing in T.I.?

Desiré Whitmore (29:33):

So I am in the Teacher Institute. I’m a physicist in the Teacher Institute. And the Teacher Institute is a group of teachers and scientists. And our job is to basically support middle school and high school science teachers and teacher leaders in the state of California, but science teachers around the world, in their pursuit of science teaching. And by support, I mean we provide professional development. We provide other things, communities of practice, and we go and do workshops in certain places. We go to India to teach Tibetan monks and nuns science. And we go to Costa Rica to teach teachers all over the country of Costa Rica about science. And so our job is really, to help science teachers feel more secure in their science teaching and help to retain them in the field, because a good science teacher is so important in helping our students thrive. And so our job—and we take this very seriously—is to help science teachers thrive. And we are made up of PhD scientists and veteran classroom teachers. So we have on the one side teachers who have been teaching middle school or high school for years. One of my coworkers, Zeke, who I work with the most, he was a high school physics and environmental science teacher for 21 years before coming to the Exploratorium. And then me, I was never a classroom teacher. I was a professor; I was a physics professor at a community college, and I was a researcher. So my deep knowledge of physics and current knowledge of physics—or knowledge of current physics—combined with Zeke’s extremely experienced pedagogy is really how we work together as a team. And it’s not just Zeke, right? We’ve got a geologist on the team, Eric Muller. We’ve got Tammy, who’s a middle-school bio teacher. We’ve got, Julie Yu, who is a chemical engineer, PhD, and also a prior middle school teacher, former middle school teacher. We’ve got Hilleary Osheroff, who was a PhD biologist who used to work at the American Museum of Natural History. We’ve got Lori Lambertson, who was a middle-school math teacher. And so, you know, we all come together to bring our experiences both in and out of the classroom and in and out of the research lab to provide teachers with the best inquiry-driven stuff we can. And we’re very—we’re so equity-focused, because we believe that that’s important, right? We know that the impact of our work is, I think, why most of us are here. It’s why I’m here. In undergrad, my grad school, and my postdoc, I would go into classrooms. I would go into science museums and teach science to people. And I probably reached out to maybe…over that whole time, I would say a couple thousand people, right? Maybe a couple thousand people total. That’s great. But over 15 years of reaching out and only reaching a couple thousand people, that’s rough, right? And now I’m at the Exploratorium, and I know that if I reach one teacher, right? If I can teach one teacher…let’s say you. How many students do you have in your classes a year?

Eric Cross (33:11):

Two hundred a year.

Desiré Whitmore (33:12):

You have 200 students a year that you teach. So if you teach for 10 years, that’s 2000. That’s 2000 students. So I have, by teaching you today, assuming that I’m actually teaching you something that’s gonna be useful for you—

Eric Cross (33:29):

You do! And you are!

Desiré Whitmore (33:30):

You are going to be impacting these 2000 students over the next 10 years. And of course you’re gonna be in teaching for much longer than that. But let’s just say in 10 years, that payoff is so much higher, right? And you’re one teacher. But I have 30 of you in my workshop! And so if all of these 30 teachers each teach 2000 kids over the next 10 years, then I’m actually doing something. I’m actually changing the way that students see science, through changing the way that you see science. Right? And so I take my job very seriously, as we all do. Like, we’re so invested in our teachers. And it’s not that we don’t care about students, ’cause we absolutely do. But we understand that without good teachers, students aren’t going to be able to thrive, as often as they would otherwise. I was able to do it somehow. But I’m one. There are so many other kids who could have gone into science who didn’t because they felt they never connected to it. So our job is to try to help teachers connect to it. And an important part of that is allowing you all to experience science as a learner. We want you to play and have joyful experiences. We want you to enjoy science and to try to think about it from the perspective of your students. Walk in their shoes. So that when you then go back to your classroom, you are able to think about like, “Oh yeah, you know, my students totally asked the same question that I asked, or that another teacher asked in the workshop because they had the foresight to think about that’s what my students would ask.” Right?

Eric Cross (35:02):

Well, I think it’s really effective to create empathy for the learner. Because I find myself in that position. I don’t know if some kind of memory displacement field happens to me when I sit in those workshops, but Hillary will ask a question that I know the answer to and I’m like, “I don’t want to answer the question. I don’t—I might be wrong.” And I teach the subject! And I embody what it’s like to be a student. And when I leave, I might have to go back and reference exactly what the lesson was, but I remember how I felt when I didn’t know. And very rarely as teachers do we get put in positions like that. And so it helps me be in the position of my students emotionally, of what it’s like. Even even the intentionality of how do you ask questions and not showing an affect on your face when somebody says the right answer or the wrong answer.

Desiré Whitmore (35:55):

Well, I’m still learning that. I’m not great at it. Julie is the mast.

Eric Cross (35:59):

Julie’s got it nailed.

Desiré Whitmore (36:00):

I’m still trying to learn from her. She’s amazing. And I really would like to get there one day. But I’m still not there. I’ll be like, “Oh! Oh! Well, that’s…”. I have a terrible poker face. So I’ll be like, “Oh yeah, but you think that? Maybe…”. That’s a piece of it that’s really important, right? It’s this not giving away the answer, even when you have the right answer. Allowing people to ask the questions and explore and become invested in the problem, before giving away the answer. That’s something that I learn here at the Exploratorium. And like I said, I learn every day. And it’s something that I think is so important for us as teachers to learn and try to implement. Because oftentimes you’ll come and you’ll have students who are like, “I’m too stupid. I don’t know the answer.” And then somebody else will say the answer, and then the student is like, “Yeah, I was right. I’m too stupid.’” But it’s like no! But if you have that student actually think about it, then the student—once they do hear the right answer—they might be like, “Oh yeah, that would make sense.” Instead of “I’m stupid.” It’s like, no, this is, “I explored this and I figured it out on my own.”

Eric Cross (37:08):

Things keep coming back to how this experience and the process of them learning science even outweighs the content of it. ‘Cause the content is almost easier to share, it’s easier to get, you can look it up really quickly. But in your story and in many other people’s stories, the exposure, the experience, how they’re going through that process—I know that’s something that I’ve learned a lot in just watching. Not teaching science, but actually the science of teaching. Sitting in the workshops and watching how we’re treated as students, how you interact with us, and then being able to take that back to the classroom. And just to add onto the value that it’s created, I think one thing that it’s also done is given us community. And in addition to being able to impact students, it’s also been able to build resilience in teachers. Because we as teachers can feel very isolated. And especially now when things are incredibly difficult, and every teacher’s experiencing Covid and shutdowns and low staffing across the country in different ways, when you don’t feel you have community or people that you can connect with, it just makes everything feel exponentially harder. And you’ve done a great job at being able to build community with us in our community of practice. The Exploratorium has been able to do that. And it’s something that I’m super-grateful for probably more than anything else is that through these last two years, being able to connect really made me feel like, “OK, we’re gonna be able to do this.” And it’s not just about Cross or my other teacher in eighth grade or my sixth grade teacher who’s doing this. That message, I think, is really, really important. I wanna ask this: Was there a teacher or an experience that impacted you or inspired you throughout your educational career? You know, kindergarten all the way to college? Was there a moment or a person or anything that that really stuck with you, that you felt maybe influenced who you became? Met you where you were at? I know you mentioned your chemistry teacher at that point, but is there anyone else, or was it that person that was really the person who sticks out for you?

Desiré Whitmore (39:21):

There actually have been a few. Of course, the first is my great-grandmother, Claudia Pairs. But I think in the fourth and fifth grade I had the same teacher. She stayed with us going from fourth to fifth grade. And fourth grade was a new school for me. New town. I was the only Black child in the school, me and my sister. And my teacher recognized that I had no real help at home, I guess? And she really kind of…she saw that I was really smart. She would give me extra assignments when she could tell I was bored. It meant that someone outside of my house cared about me in a way that I didn’t feel cared about at home. Her name is Ms. Comet. Mrs. Comet.

Eric Cross (40:11):

Like…comet?

Desiré Whitmore (40:13):

Yeah. Mrs. Fran Comet. And I’ve tried looking her up as an adult and I can’t find her. But I work with so many teachers, and I know how hard teaching is and how degrading it can be…or demoralizing, I guess, to not be appreciated. And so I know what it feels to me when a student has reached out and shown me like, “Hey, I’m now in dental school,” or “I’m now getting a PhD in science,” and I’m just like….

Eric Cross (40:40):

I got a message this morning on Instagram from a student. And none of my students use their real names in their Instagram handles. So I got a message from Moonshine. <Laugh> And I was a seventh grade teacher. And through deduction, deductive reasoning, I figured out who it was. This person’s now in college and they responded in that…you know, you get one of those every once in a while. And I feel it just fills your tank. It’s just so important that we—it’s funny because, kind of to your point, we don’t realize who or how we’re making impacts on people. And in what ways. We just know that we are. And I tell other teachers, I said, “You have one of the few professions where you fall asleep worrying about other people’s kids.” And it’s the words that we speak, the things that we do, people are always watching. I know, no pressure, right!? Hopefully, someone listening can find Ms. Comet.

Desiré Whitmore (41:37):

Ms. Comet. Teacher at Buena Vista Elementary School back in the ’80s. But your talk about this impact, it reminds me of the thing I wanted to say, but I didn’t. But I’m gonna tell you right now. I mentioned how science was not a priority when I went to school, in my hometown. That’s Lancaster, California. But recently I got a phone call from a family friend and she was so excited. And she called me to tell me that her daughter was super-excited when she picked her up from school. Because I was in her classroom. She said, “Auntie Desiré was in my class today! And she works on lasers! And she does spectroscopy! And I wanna learn about spectroscopy now. So can we call Auntie Desiré?” And I was like, “Wait, what?” My friend was kind of confused. She’s like, “Desiré didn’t tell me she was in town.” She had no idea why her daughter was saying I was in her classroom, ’cause I was not physically there. And then I had to put the pieces together and I was like, “Oh my God, your daughter’s in eighth grade already.” It made me feel really old, ’cause I know this girl from a little baby. But I was like, “Oh my God, that’s the eighth grade unit on light waves for Amplify that I wrote, and I’m featured as the scientist.” Because we have real scientists in the units. And they featured me in that one, in my laser lab. And so this little girl who knows me really well, who lives in my hometown, is seeing representation in science. She doesn’t necessarily know I’m a scientist. She knows that—I don’t know what she knows about me. She just knows I’m Auntie Desiré and, you know, I like gumbo at Christmas. That’s what she knows about me. <Laugh>. And so she comes back and she’s so excited ’cause now she knows so much more about me. And she knows that if I can do it and I came from where she’s at, she can do it too. And she was super-excited. And I was just…it brought me to tears. I was just crying in the car. I was driving <laugh> at the time and I was like, “This is amazing. Work that I did is teaching you and all of your friends in this tiny little town that you live in. And that to me is so important because now this little girl knows that, like, she knows me as just a normal human right. Who likes Star Trek and Star Wars and The Owl House. And now she’s over here like, “Oh my gosh, this normal human wrote the science curriculum that I’m learning from.” Which I think is just so fantastic. And it really brought home for me kind of the importance of my work and why I’m doing what I’m doing. And that’s pretty awesome. And I get messages from Instagram, you know, from teachers who are like, “Hey, did you work on this? ‘Cause you were featured in the video, but did you write this light waves unit?” And I’m like, “Yeah.” And they’ll tell me, “I have students, this is their favorite unit. I’ve gotten notes from students saying, ‘This was my favorite unit in all of middle school.’” And I’m like, “Ohhhhhh!”<Laugh>

Eric Cross (44:33):

That story just gives me chills. Because I just can imagine how surreal that must feel. And you’re directly making that impact on those kids. And I’m glad that you shared that story so that everyone can hear it, because it’s a powerful story and I lived—I feel I was living it through you, just now, as you were discussing it.

Desiré Whitmore (44:54):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (44:54):

And I feel that way in the classroom to a small degree, because I get to have—when my students create posters of scientists that we don’t typically see, I’ve got you on my list of scientists, and I’m they’re like…And I’m like, “I can call her!” Like, “Mr. Cross, you KNOW her?!” I’m like, “Yeah, she’s a friend of mine! I was talking to her the other day!” And they’re like, “Whoa. She works with lasers?!”

Desiré Whitmore (45:17):

<Whispers> I do.

Eric Cross (45:18):

Desiré. I’ve held you for so long and—

Desiré Whitmore (45:23):

Yes, I’m sorry! I told you, I talk so much! I’m a teacher!

Eric Cross (45:26):

No! No, no, no, no. It was great! I wanna honor your time. Can you tell everybody where they can find out more about you again?

Desiré Whitmore (45:33):

So first off, you can find me on Twitter at Darth Science, D A R T H S C I E N C E, and you can also find me at Instagram at Dr. Laser Chick: D R dot laser chick. Even though I don’t post on Instagram that much. I also have a website, which is laser chick dot net. I’m still working on it. It’s not the best website yet. But, you know, it’ll, it’ll be better in the future.

Eric Cross (46:02):

Would you be willing to come back later on in the year and do a part two?

Desiré Whitmore (46:07):

Oh, for sure. Yeah. So I can actually finish telling you the story of how I got into physics! ‘Cause I totally didn’t. ‘Cause I’m all over the place.

Eric Cross (46:15):

So, everybody, cliffhanger! Next time she comes back, she’ll continue to tell us the story. Desiré, thank you so much.

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What Desiré Whitmore says about science

“I think it’s really amazing when we can realize as teachers… our job is not just to enforce rules on our students… our job is is to help students achieve more learning.”

– Desiré Whitmore

Senior Physics Educator, aka “LaserChick”, Exploratorium

Meet the guest

A Southern California native, Desiré earned an associate of science from Antelope Valley College, a bachelor of science in chemical engineering from UCLA, and a master of science and Ph.D. in chemical and material physics from UC Irvine. Her research focused on developing very fast laser and microscope systems that could capture molecules vibrating and rotating in real time. She was a postdoctoral fellow at UC Berkeley, where she designed and built attosecond lasers (the fastest laser pulses, which emit x-ray light, ever measured). At the Lawrence Hall of Science she wrote an all-digital K–8 science curriculum (Amplify Science), which aligned to the NGSS, with the Learning Design Group (LDG). Desiré left LDG to teach hands-on laser technology and physics courses at Irvine Valley College before joining the TI staff. She is the proud mom of Stella, a four-year-old boxer-pit mix. In her spare time, Desiré is restoring her 1967 VW bug.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

You might also like:

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Science Connections Teaser

Listen now! Science Connections Trailer Episode

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Find Desiré

Check out more about Laser Chick here!

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Exploratorium

Learn online or visit the museum!

S4 – 01. Joyful math teaching with Kanchan Kant

Podcast cover for "Math Teacher Lounge," Season 4, Episode 1, titled "Joyful math teaching," featuring Kanchan Kant, described as a math educator and transformative leader.

This season on the Math Teacher Lounge podcast, we follow the theme “joyful math” and uncover its meaning.

In this episode, Kanchan Kant joins Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer to discuss the key, early investment she makes at the start of the school year to ensure her math teaching will be joyful for herself and for her students for the rest of the year.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:00):
Okay, we are recording. Hey folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. (laugh)

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:06):
Hardly off to a rocking start.

Dan Meyer (00:06):
Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> Did you like my energy there? Hey folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. It’s a new season with your host Dan Meyer. And…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:15):
I’m Bethany, Lockhart Johnson. How’s your summer Dan?

Dan Meyer (00:22):
Summer for me feels really hectic as we prepare, here at Amplify, for the new school year, and everyone’s starting these new math programs. So I’ve been feeling quite amped up, like usual in the summer. But also, my kids started big kid school. So I’ve been seeing the educational system from the role of a parent and all the anxieties and I worry, will I be my kids’ teacher’s most annoying parent <laugh> … So what kind of math curriculum you using? Oh, have you heard of core counting? Can I lead a math center? What’s this worksheet about? I’m really worried my kids are just overall gonna hate my vibe when I come around their classes. Uh, <laugh> so lots going on with me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:06):
It’s already happening for me and I have a toddler.

Dan Meyer (01:10):
<laugh> There we go. Anyway, that’s what I’m up to. That’s how I’m feeling. I’m curious how you’re doing. We haven’t chatted in a while. We’re excited about the podcast, but it’s been a bit, you know? Bethany got a break from me and my antics over the summer. So, how are we finding you here, as we ramp up to the new season?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:24):
Uhhhh. Well, let me just tell you, I have a toddler. That’s kind of all I need to say. Except that’s not all I will say. Of course, I’ll say more. I am exploring, I’m dipping my toe into the extracurricular toddler activities; the music classes of the toddler world, the creative movement of the toddler world. And yeah, I have lots of opinions and lots of things to say about the teachers. And I’m like, Ugh, I can’t wait to be room mom. And just like…<laugh>

Dan Meyer (01:55):
Just let it rip, you know?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:57):
I have opinions on everything and just hope I don’t get kicked out of the class.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:05):
It’s been an eventfully recharging summer and we are ready for this new season. And in fact, we’re so ready that we decided that we were gonna mix up this season. Just a, just a tiny bit. Shall I explain Dan?

Dan Meyer (02:21):
Yeah. Let’s do it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:22):
So we have loved all the different topics that we have explored in the Math Teacher Lounge world, but we kind of feel like we need to do some more deep dives. So for this season and the foreseeable seasons …

Dan Meyer (02:38):
We’ll see how it goes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):
Let’s stick with this season. For this season. We’re going to be exploring a singular theme.

Dan Meyer (02:46):
We’re not bouncing around. Yep. We’re not bouncing around from a guest to guest going on whatever shiny thing in the river bed catches our eye. We’re gonna take one theme and see where it goes. What we working with here this season?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:57):
This season, we are going to be exploring the idea of joyful math, joyful math. And Dan, the question I have for you is, is the term joyful math one that you use on the regular?

Dan Meyer (03:10):
No, it definitely is not. I think that joy and math are very rarely, you know, connected in the popular mind. Number one, and number two, you know, I’m kind of an ornery fellow, so that’s not my natural kind of description of math. But we decided that it feels like an important one at the moment, because a lot of math teaching–a lot of teaching in general, math teaching in particular–math teaching is often not a joyful discipline for students, where, you know, I’ve done some research where you look at what people type into Google. And I looked at like, what they…why am I bad at X? And I looked at that for where X is math, where it’s science, where it’s reading, where it’s history. And it was just wild to see how many more hits there are out there on the Internet for “why am I bad at math?” People don’t really associate math with joy, but also we’re looking at joyful math in terms of joyful math teaching. Math teaching, teaching in general, is a tough field at the moment with a lot of teachers leaving teaching. And those who remain are having a lot of soul searching and thinking about, why am I here and how do I sustain this work? And in an environment that seems hostile to my interests or my talents, or work-life balance. And so that’ll be the theme that we’re gonna kind of uncover over the course of our season, talking to various interesting guests, including one today about, yeah, joyful math teaching and joyful math.

Dan Meyer (04:43):
And to help us think about what joyful math teaching looks like, we figured we’d first look at what UN-joyful math teaching looks like. It happens to be the case that we’ve been in a pandemic as you might be aware, and teaching has been challenging. And the NEA, our National Education Association, surveyed its member teachers and asked them the following question … Gave a list of issues that school employees have experienced and asked, for each one indicate how serious of a problem this is for you. This is a survey where more than half of members said they are more likely to leave or retire sooner than planned because of the pandemic. And this is almost double the numbers from July, 2020. It’s really hard to keep track of teacher departures and unfilled vacancies across states. So I don’t wanna like blow this up out of proportion, but it does indicate some real challenges in teaching. So Bethany, I was curious, what do you think like at the top of the list, like what kinds of factors, issues facing educators would you imagine there are?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:48):
So if I’m to understand you correctly, these are reasons someone is not actively experiencing joy in the profession of teaching. Like why would they leave?

Dan Meyer (05:58):
Exactly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:59):
Well, the number one thing that came to mind for me, well, okay. Wait, wait, one other caveat I need to ask about, you said specifically pandemic-related or just in general, because if it’s pandemic-related, then I think, well, there’s health issues, right? That people are concerned about, but in general, the thing that came to mind was a lack of support from administration districts, lack of funding, and overcrowding in classrooms. Like, you know, I saw somebody had 40 students in their classroom. So those are the two things that I can imagine like top on someone’s list that would make them experience less than a joyful day.

Dan Meyer (06:44):
Yeah. There’s a bunch of you’re kind of identifying here. So number seven on the list is lack of respect from parents and the public, which is like 76% of teachers call that out as serious for them. Others that you kind of circled around in terms of resources go like, not enough planning or unstructured time in the job kind of ties into resources. Yeah. But there’s others that are on the list that I’m curious, you wanna take on the swing at it, given what I’ve said here,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:15):
I feel like too much being asked of them, like being asked to wear too many hats, like they’re being asked to not only teach their class, but also cover all the vacancies and supervise recess and, you know, make a delicious, nutritious lunch. That’s what came to mind. Am am I close?

Dan Meyer (07:33):
Yeah. Number four on the list, unfilled job openings leading to more work for remaining staff. People covering, you know, not just the kind of external to teaching work like you’re describing, but also just taking on like losing your prep period, to take on a class that has been unfilled for all kinds of reasons. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:54):
Yeah. I’ve only gotten the fourth. Give me one clue, one clue about …

Dan Meyer (07:59):
So, I mean like, so number one is general stress from the coronavirus pandemic, you know, which I feel like …

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:06):
I mentioned that.

Dan Meyer (08:07):
I’ll give you that one. Yep, yep, sure. And then number two, close behind, is feeling burned out, which I think ties into what you’re describing as well. I’m giving Bethany credit on that one. The third one is very different from the ones you’ve been describing. I think I cannot in good faith give you even partial credit for this one. I’ll just say it. Student…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:28):
Wait! Dan, this is not how you give clues.

Dan Meyer (08:31):
Here’s a clue. It’s student absences due to COVID19. It’s really hard to deal student absences. That’s your clue.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:40):
That wasn’t a clue that you told me.

Dan Meyer (08:43):
Yeah, let’s see. I think that’s largely it. There’s also pay is too low, is on the list; student behavioral issues, on the list. And I think that about covers it. So all of that, that basket of items has led to more than half of teachers in this survey, saying that they’re more likely to leave or retire from education sooner than planned. And I don’t know. I think we all know teachers who have bailed.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:08):
I’ve never played a board game with you, Dan, but if we ever play a board game, we’re gonna work on your clue giving, ’cause I want to keep guessing. And you just told me.

Dan Meyer (09:22):
Yeah. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:22):
In all seriousness, the <laugh>. In all seriousness, I think yes, the stress of the pandemic and students being absent, what some folks are calling unfinished learning, all of those pieces do play into it. But a lot of those things that you’re mentioning on the list are things that are not unique to the pandemic, right? Like those are things that I feel like there is some modicum of control that we could have over shifting the way the culture of the teaching profession is going so that we could create a more joyful experience for educators, administrators, and students.

Dan Meyer (10:03):
Yeah. Good call out. That’s exactly right. We could tax the people who are not in the classrooms more and increase the pay to classroom teachers. You know, there we go.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:11):
Oh. Bingo. Why didn’t we ask you sooner Dan, for your wisdom.

Dan Meyer (10:15):
Yeah. I’m … solved by Dan. Yeah, good point though. So I read that and yeah, I think that there’s been some … people have critiqued the NEA for being very alarmist about teacher departures as the year has ramped up. It has not been quite the flood of departing teachers as was predicted and thank heavens for that, but we should still be very bummed if teachers are unhappy and wanting to leave and feel like they can’t leave. That is definitely not good. So we were really excited to bring to the table, someone who is just a very joyful teacher and one in a very intentional way. Someone who has a lot of discipline in how she approaches the job and the students in it and tries to create a joyful environment for herself, Kanchan Kant. Kanchan is a math and computer science teacher at Newton North High School in Newton, Massachusetts. She’s been sharing her love for math with her students for the past four years, while also being instrumental in setting the culture and ethos of the math department at her school in her role as the assistant department head. We welcome you on the show Kanchan to help us understand joy and math teaching. Thanks for being here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:29):
Welcome!

Kanchan Kant (11:30):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:33):
One of my friends, her son was asked as his first math homework assignment to write out his math bio. And I loved that idea because we got to hear a little bit about your bio from like a broader perspective. But if we were to ask about your math bio, I will speak for myself to say like, automatically certain images flash into my mind, right? To think about my relationship, my evolving relationship with math. But I’m so curious if I was to ask you, what’s your math bio? How did you become the person, mathematically speaking, that you are today? Would you mind sharing a bit about that?

Kanchan Kant (12:10):
Of course I would love to. So I was born and raised in India and I belong to a family which considers mathematics to be extremely important to succeed in life. My father used to have me add and subtract license plates since I was four years old, when we were out and about. I loved math in school, it just made like complete sense to me. It was logical and you know, it was my favorite subject. I loved it all through high school. I had a confidence speed breaker in undergrad. When in my second semester I almost failed the engineering math course that I took. That was the first time math felt like too much and not like my best friend, which it was supposed to be. So it was a while before I could summon the courage to take on another math course in college.

Kanchan Kant (12:56):
But once I did that, it was like old times. I realized I had to persevere through the challenging bits. And once I did that, it started to make sense again. And through my journey, as an educator speaking to people from various backgrounds and like coming to the United States, I realized that math is challenging for everyone at one time or another. For some people that is elementary school. And for some others, it is college or even later. Either way does not mean that you are not a math person. When I was in college, I felt I was not a math person. Whereas my sister, my very own sister said the same thing about math in middle school. Both of us use math every day. And we are definitely, definitely math people. So for me to be a math person is to persevere, to approach problem-solving in a logical manner, and to find the joy in the process ,as well as the answer.

Dan Meyer (13:47):
That’s wonderful. Yeah. A lot of people, have a moment where they feel like almost betrayed by what they thought was a close friend of theirs, with math, where it’s like, wait, I thought we were tight. You know, I thought we were cool. You and me. And there’s that moment. And I wonder if that’s been a useful moment for you to, you know, bring back now and then as a teacher with students who might feel that even, you know, in high school or in a secondary school as a kid.

Kanchan Kant (14:15):
Absolutely. Like when I talk to students and tell them, yes, I had difficulty in math too. It has not always been easy for men and there are still things I struggle with sometimes, then it’s like more modeling for them that you have to persevere, you should persevere. And once you do that, it makes sense and you can feel successful. So, almost every year I end up sharing the story with my students.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:38):
There’s so much value in that, right? That you are sharing that vulnerability with students. And to say your relationship with mathematics has not been, you know, smooth sailing the whole way through. There were times when you had to work harder than others.

Dan Meyer (14:55):
Yeah. Really fun to hear about you and your father as well. I tried to ask my five-year-old to do some skip counting the other day, like, okay, cool, you’re hot stuff. You can count, you know, up by ones, but what about by twos? And the moment really fell flat. And I watched myself becoming the kind of parent who is whose enthusiasm for math is one day resented by his children. I feel a lot of, yeah, I felt your anxiety Kanchan, with math itself. And now I feel anxiety as like someone who loves math and loves to teach math and may one day alienate the people closest to him. <laugh>

Kanchan Kant (15:31):
I don’t like that future. I have a three-month-old. I do not like this future of mine. If I have to go through what you’re going through. Uh, oh, <laugh>

Dan Meyer (15:38):
You got this. So Kanchan, you’re going back to the classroom coming up here at the time of this recording. It’s a few weeks out. And we’re thinking about like the kind of ways that math teachers sustain a disposition that is joyful. How are you feeling right now, as far as going back to class after this summer? Are you feeling excited, anxious, some combo, tell us about it.

Kanchan Kant (16:01):
I would say combo, but more excited than anxious. I was on maternity leave, as I mentioned, before the school year ended, and I missed the students dearly. Like, my students are what gives me hope in the darkest times. They are thoughtful. They’re empathetic. They’re so eager to learn. And very soon into my teaching career, I realized that if I take the time to get to know my students and make them feel safe and seen in my class, teaching them math would be so much easier and so much more fun. So I’m a little worried about this being like fourth year into the pandemic, but let’s see. Last year I felt the students were finding it difficult to interact with and work with their classmates because they had not been doing it for so long. So I’m hoping this year would go a little better and I’m really looking forward to working with them and building community and see how it goes.

Dan Meyer (16:53):
So if I’m understanding you correctly, you are feeling very well recharged here. You had basically an extended summer with this maternity leave, basically just like a lot of rest and relaxation over the last, like several months. Um, if I get you here. So anyway, I’m glad for that for you. And, yeah. I also hear you on the difficulties of teaching post pandemic or mid pandemic. Anyway, thanks for sharing that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:19):
What I love is I hear you being so intentional, like thinking about those relationships and thinking about that community that you want to build, you know? How do you hope that you’re gonna cultivate joy in your teaching this year? I mean like, are there certain routines or disciplines that you specifically call forth or that you think other teachers should think about?

Kanchan Kant (17:41):
So at the start of every school year, I dedicate like about three to four weeks to set up the classroom culture, both social and academic. I call my classroom a learning community. We start with community circles, we do icebreaker activities, group building and all those kinds of things. But most importantly, we do a lot of collective problem solving. So I try to present students with problems, which can be solved using multiple strategies and have multiple entry points, basically they are low floor, high ceiling problems. These could be stretch problems that they have seen before, like concepts that they already know or logical puzzles, or just wrapping their heads around different problems. Then I have students share their strategies. The more strategies they have on the board, the more successful I think the problem was. Every year, inevitably, students come up with strategies that I’ve never ever seen before for the same problems that I do.

Kanchan Kant (18:35):
And so I have students come up to the board, they would share their strategies. If they’re not ready for that, they would walk me through their strategies. And I would write their name on the board with different colored markers and everything. Basically to give them choice and agency. It also shows them that the process of doing the problem is so much more important than just getting the right answer and that it is okay to make mistakes in our learning community. I use a lot of vertical whiteboards, some concepts and problems align so well with the vertical surfaces, especially when students can explore together, learn from each other. So I do a lot of that. As for routines, I would say consistency is the key. I consistently reinforce that I want to hear multiple strategies, that it is okay to make mistakes. I am willing to learn from you as much as you’re willing to learn from me. So all like that consistency in culture more than the routines, is I feel important to bring that joy.

Dan Meyer (19:29):
That’s super interesting. Thanks for that. So I’ve heard, I hear two common objections or two common concerns to using rich tasks or doing problem solving. And I think I heard like answers to those two common reservations within what you described there, but I wonder if we can kind of bring it to the surface. And so one of the reservations is around the time that those problems take and another is that teachers often feel like, well, I might be surprised, you know, I might not know what to do with what a student does. And I thought I was hearing like some very interesting answers to both of those kinds of reservations from you, but would you just surface those up if you have some.

Kanchan Kant (20:09):
So in terms of time, I feel if I spend the time at the beginning of the year, setting up that community and doing those problems, it makes learning the math and learning the concepts much more faster throughout the rest of the year. And even when I am trying, like, even throughout the year, if we are doing a warm up problem, as I call it, which has multiple strategies, that’s gonna clarify so many more concepts when we talk about those five, 10 strategies of doing the same problem, then going through multiple problems to clarify those concepts. So for me, it actually saves time instead of taking more time.

Dan Meyer (20:43):
Hmm. That’s super interesting. It’s an investment I’m hearing from you that, yeah, you might not be hitting the curriculum quite as hard early on, but that all of a sudden you’re in the spring and it’s like, oh wow, we’ve been moving so much faster through territory that has been more challenging. What would you say to you know, comfort concerned educators or to address the concern that I don’t know what I’ll do with these five, 10 different strategies. You say, I always see strategies that I’ve never anticipated. Like, it’s a good thing, you know, like you’re happy about that. I think that’s a very intimidating thing for lots of educators. What would you say to that?

Kanchan Kant (21:19):
I think like, for me, it’s a good kind of discomfort. That means like a student is teaching me something, which is actually doing two things. One modeling for them that I’m willing to learn and that I don’t know everything. And two, also telling them that they’re mathematicians. They know what they’re doing. They’re not just receivers of math, they’re actually creating it. So for me, that is very, very important.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:43):
I love that so much. When you think about your students and you’re about to start this new school year, how do you hope your students will experience math in your classroom?

Kanchan Kant (21:53):
So I hope my students can see the beauty and joy of math. They can see that math is a way to see the world and not as something we have to do to get through school. So my hope for my classroom is that we can learn to problem-solve and persevere through problems and learn from each other and not just get through the curriculum. Because like, I think math is a wonderful way to learn these skills, which are so important when you get out of high school. Most importantly, I just wanna make sure that my students see themselves as mathematicians. And like one of the things that like I have to share with you that, because one of my highlights for the year has to be the Desmos art project. I do it every year for the past three years, I think since I’ve started teaching sophomores. And I do it as a unit assessment for functions and my students design something that is meaningful to them, using all the different kinds of functions and colors and shading and everything that you can think of in Desmos.

Kanchan Kant (22:49):
Thank you so much for that though. It is such a cool way for me to see them do that. Like I have seen such amazing creations. One of my students once made a scaled working model of a solar system wherein the planets were rotating at relative speed. The Saturn had rings and they were like asteroids and everything. And then it was beautifully done. Then there was another one who did a very, very detailed whale scenery, her reasoning. I wanna be a Marine biologist and I wanna study whales. So this is what is meaningful to me. So like that one project is just a culmination of everything that I want students to see in math and in my classroom. And like I do more of those kinds of things, but that is one thing that it’s one of the highlights of my year.

Dan Meyer (23:32):
That’s awesome. I love hearing that. Yeah. Shout out to the team at Desmos Studio for building and continuing to develop a tool list that so good for art and animation, even, in addition to some mathematics with a more computational kind. Yeah, that’s really exciting. What’s interesting to me is that you teach high school, and I think that like students at that age have a very well-defined sense of what math is and who they are as mathematicians. And then along you come, you know, and like offer this really interesting disruption, you know, in their sophomore year of high school that like, oh, this can be totally different, this relationship who I am. And that’s just really exciting. I imagine it’s a very surprising year. I would imagine that first month, I would imagine is a very surprising month for a lot of your sophomores.

Kanchan Kant (24:20):
Yeah, it is. I mean, that’s why I take that time to build that community because then that sets the tone and the relationship that we’re gonna have for the rest of the year. Students get to know how to work with each other. They get to know each other, that whole piece is like super important because of that.

Dan Meyer (24:35):
Yeah. That’s awesome. So here’s the thing, like we’re exploring these ideas about joyful math teaching and what it will take to cultivate restore, reclaim joy in math, teaching this next year. And you’ve offered us these really interesting ideas some, some very, you know, philosophical and some technical about how you spend time in ways that lead to joy in the spring for you and your students. Love that. We don’t want to as hosts, as researchers, investigators of this joyful math teaching idea, we don’t wanna say it’s all up to teachers to change their mindset, to do different technical practices, and that will lead to joy. We also wanna be really attentive to the environment that surrounds you, the people who are around to support you, the policy makers, the social structures that influence your joy in very significant ways. So what we would love to know from you is, how are you supported by the greater educational community in keeping your joy in your work? I’m thinking, especially about administrators, you know, front office, staff, parents, even, can you name a few ways for those sorts of people who listen to this podcast, how they can cultivate a math teacher’s joy this coming year?

Kanchan Kant (25:54):
I would say trust. I think more than anything, educators want administrators, parents, the greater educational community, to trust them to be professionals and experts in what they do. That does not mean that we don’t want to learn, that we don’t want feedback, that we don’t wanna get better. It just means that we keep the wellbeing of our students as our top priority. And we would like to be trusted to do just that. Also just keeping in mind that whether we like it or not, we are still adjusting to the new normal while recovering from the worst of the pandemic times. A lot of us are recovering from trauma, a lot of our students are recovering from trauma, and we need time and space for our social and emotional wellbeing.

Dan Meyer (26:35):
Yeah. I’m really curious, Kanchan, you’ve done a lot of work in your area with your grading team and in thinking about equitable and biased resistant instruction. I’m curious how you see those efforts lining up with creating joyful math learning conditions for all students, not just students from a dominant culture of math doing, let’s say.

Kanchan Kant (26:55):
For me, creating an equitable environment in a classroom is most important because once you have that, that’s when you have the relationships, that’s when you have the culture, that’s when all students actually thrive. So to that end, our school and our department has been doing a lot of work around grading practices. We actually assess how we grade students, where the bias is, what we can do to make them more bias resistant. Should we move to mastery based grading? Like that’s something I’ve been experimenting with for the past two years. Through the pandemic, I started doing mastery based grading so that my students can get more opportunities to show that they have learned the content. And so like just little things which help bridge the opportunity gap. I would say another project that our school undertakes is called the calculus project wherein we have students in Black, Latinx, and low income families sign up for that and are recommended for that. And then we do summer classes and yearlong support to preview the material for next year, not as a remedial class, but to actually set students up for success in AP classes for the coming year. So we have the community buildup. We have the courses we have like math support. It’s a very beautiful thing actually. And I’ve been working with that program for four years now. So yeah, so those are my ways of creating more equity in our school.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:19):
That’s so beautiful and I deeply, deeply wish you had been my high school math teacher. And I have to say that the theme that I kind of keep hearing is this intentionality. How you are so intentional about your work, not just with what your students are learning, but how they’re learning it, how they are engaging with this subject and how they are building their own relationship. You talked a little bit about your relationship over the years with mathematics, but how are your students building that relationship? And so I’m just very appreciative of you sharing that with us and with our listeners. And we are so excited to have learned a little bit about, like, I feel like I got a little mini peek into your classroom.

Kanchan Kant (29:03):
Thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:04):
And can I say that if you are listening to this prior to October at NCTM Los Angeles, you will get to hear Kanchan Kant speak at Shadow Con. Can I give that away, Dan? Is that, is that …

Dan Meyer (29:23):
You can drop that. Yeah, It’s pretty top secret.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:26):
Can I drop it?

Dan Meyer (29:27):
Yeah. Do it. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:28):
Dan and I will be in the audience cheering you on. It’s been a joy to learn with and from you, and we are so excited to just, you know, kind of keep marinating on some of these ideas about how we can continue to be intentional about creating joyful math spaces for our students. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Kanchan Kant (29:49):
Thank you so much. It was a real pleasure.

Dan Meyer (29:57):
So Bethany, I loved hearing Kanchan talk about both her, just her joyful personality, but how she cultivates joy through craft and technique through, you know, through the various ways she interacts with students in intentional ways, that those make the job more joyful for her. And I thought it was really interesting to hear her talk about how autonomy is the thing that she needs most in her job environment to feel like she can be joyful in her work. In that context, I saw … something on Twitter popped up for me in my, you know, my many Twitter wanderings. This is a segment we might call, Dan finds something on Twitter and shares it with Bethany. Which we’ll tighten that up a little bit, but I’m sending this over to you right now, and I’d love to know as you check this out, what you’re seeing and what you’re thinking and we’ll chat about how it relates to our interview here in a moment.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:47):
All right. I’m ready, send it over. It’s opening. So this appears to be a document by the way, outlining, maybe it’s a district, maybe it’s administration, they’re outlining expectation type and expectation guidelines. Hmm. Okay. And these are lesson plan expectations. Expectation type. Timeliness. Plans are due no later than 6 p.m.. Friday prior to the week of instruction. Comprehensive, all activities for the week for all subjects taught should be included and complete by due date and time. Plans should have at minimum, the following, see template for detail. Okay. So then it goes through the things that the plans need to have, the topic title, target, the objective, the activities, the sequence, the display agendas to be displayed backward design. Okay. So basically <laugh>, we were just talking about, overwhelm. And when I see this document, listeners, have you ever received something from your administrator or anyone, let’s take it more broadly, that is requesting something of you that would take so much time to complete and be so out of touch with your lived reality that it really genuinely sucks the joy out of the experience.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:25):
So the first thing that I see that this document, and again, the goal of whichever district’s plan this is, is that these expectations will lead–now, mind you, I am a fan of like, you know, looking ahead, I’m not a like, oh, hey, what am I gonna teach in five minutes? No, but the idea that then it lays out all of the things in such detail that you’re gonna be teaching feels like one of those pacing guides where, oh, move on to the next page, whether or not your students have any sort of sense making whatsoever. So my first thought is, oh, sad. I have to stay here. I’ll be there past 6 p.m. But I’m gonna be there trying to make the plans for the next week based on what I think my students have learned. Hmm it’s sounds like a little bit of a bummer. Dan, what did you think when you saw this and did I do a fair description of what it is?

Dan Meyer (33:25):
No, it’s, it’s a tough one to describe, ’cause it’s basically a wall of text and commands from an administrator who like, I just have to imagine has just like acres and acres of teachers trying to beat down their door to teach at this school, if this is how you’re gonna treat your teachers. I mean just, yeah. The idea of having a week… I’m with you, you don’t wanna just like, just jump in by the seat of your pants, but the idea of having a full week of lessons for every section you teach, every prep you teach, planned and submitted with every minute, basically morseled out to different goals. It says down here, you gotta like, for all of these, download a CSV of grades and whatnot and attach those. It’s the sort of thing, like you said, there are some edicts that you get from administration where you just have to laugh or just like, you have definitely missed like what I am willing to do here. It’s so far beyond. Yeah. I can’t imagine it. And it just felt like, yeah, it was a great way to get teachers like Kanchan to feel like a real lack of autonomy. Like it’s this would not work. I don’t think.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:33):
And it’s not even like willing to do. Like, let’s say you’re even willing to produce it. Let’s say that me, the rule follower is like, okay. I’m gonna attempt to meet these demands. One, most teachers were just, you know, they probably would put baloney down there anyway. Not saying that I would, but I’m saying like, it’s clearly just a hoop that they’re having to jump through and two…

Dan Meyer (35:04):
Yeah. Compliance, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:05):
Yeah. Compliance, compliance. There you go. And two, yeah, it feels like it’s about control and not trusting the teacher. And I love that. Kanchan said that trust is what she needs. Right? You’re hiring me. Yes. I still have lots to learn, but you’re trusting me and you’re creating an environment where I can continue to learn from and with my students. And if I was being asked to submit this tome every Friday before six, that is predicting, what does it say, anticipating the steps necessary for student mastery? You know, I kind of feel like maybe it’s like that one or two teachers where maybe they feel like, oh, I don’t trust that teacher or that teacher isn’t doing a good job, whatever. We better do this for all of the teachers, but then it’s not gonna change the practices of that one teacher and all the other teachers are gonna be resentful.

Dan Meyer (36:00):
Like if there was like feedback that came back to you on, you know, on lesson plans or there was some like something that was very constructive or productive, like maybe that would be different, but it really just feels like these are gonna go into a digital drawer somewhere and not be looked at, at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:15):
Yes. The digital drawer. Like I’m gonna send you this report and then nothing is going to happen with it. Except that four hours of my time. Well, you wouldn’t do it, but <laugh>…

Dan Meyer (36:29):
You’ve worn me down. You’ve worn me down. I’m now putty in your hands and more compliant for the next thing. And I also just wanna shout out the administrator today, who I emailed asking about like a teacher participating in a project and this administrator said, I have a standing policy not to email teachers over summer break, which you know, as administrators out there doing just the good work, you know, trusting teachers, watching out for them, trying to be a force multiplier for teachers, making the road wider, the way easier for teachers. So shout out to y’all doing the out there. Really appreciate that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:04):
Okay. Wait, wait. About that email thing, quick question. Did you ever check your email over the summer?

Dan Meyer (37:11):
Uh, yeah. That’s one way in which I was the, you know, I just love email, you know? Oh. Someone wanted to reach out. Oh, oh, Banana Republic wants to tell me about new clothes that are on offer. <laugh> I mean like, it’s just, I love those personal emails. So yeah, I did check my email over the summer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:26):
Somebody emailed me recently and they emailed me at like two in the morning. And because I currently have a toddler, I received the email at four in the morning because you know, the best thing to help myself fall back asleep is to hop on my phone, right? Like I’m already up trying to get my toddler back to sleep. I might as well start scrolling. Anyway, so the person had this little thing at the bottom of their email and it said, I have, something to the effect of, I have really like wonky work hours. I may be sending this outside of the like more standard nine to five. But please don’t feel pressure in any way to respond outside of your time. Would you appreciate that, seeing that or does it make you feel like you should respond? ‘Cause I almost responded at four in the morning, and maybe that says something about …

Dan Meyer (38:15):
They’re telling you not to respond.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:16):
I know it was helpful.

Dan Meyer (38:18):
It says don’t, but you’re like, what if they’re saying that because they really expect me to respond and this is one of many ways that you and I are different. I’m always happy to see that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:29):
Do you respond? I’ve texted you in the evening because you know I have some wonky hours. Do you respond to things, like where’s your boundary there? Or when you were in the classroom, where was your boundary there? Did parents have your phone number?

Dan Meyer (38:43):
No. I gave kids my cell phone number for a couple years and it was a wobbly experiment. But parents will email, you know, back and forth with you. And I think the best thing to like … I love just like adding some friction, some latency into the kind of the chain, you know, like I hate going like back and forth, like da, da, da, da, and then like respond and then da, da da respond. And it just like goes back and forth. So just like just sitting back for an hour or two hours, you know, not responding, just let someone cool down, calm down. Email just gets you more email. That’s like if you send an email, you are just making it more likely to get more email. It’s a, you know, it’s a problem.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:20):
Are you one of the zero people?

Dan Meyer (39:23):
My inbox is at zero. Most days before work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:26):
You’re joking!

Dan Meyer (39:28):
I end work every day with inbox, at zero.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:31):
You’re joking!

Dan Meyer (39:32):
That’s just, you know.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:33):
Who are you?

Dan Meyer (39:34):
You know, you should take my life coaching, Bethany. I’ll give you a discount since we’re math teacher, lunch pals. But, um yeah. I can help.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:44):
Thank you for qualifying where our pal-dom lives. I wouldn’t even tell you how many are in my inbox. Point is, if you are actively starting the school year, we celebrate you and we are here and over the next few months, we’re gonna be diving into joyful math and that definition’s gonna keep evolving. But I wanna say something that is making me feel a little joyful, Dan. You ready?

Dan Meyer (40:15):
Tell me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:16):
You and I, in person, at NCTM, the National Council for Teachers and Mathematics. It’s coming up and we are going to be recording Math Teacher Lounge, live. Live, in person! And I hear there’s gonna be like a t-shirt cannon and there’s gonna be, you know, like musicians marching through the aisles or something.

Dan Meyer (40:46):
A marching band?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:46):
A marching band!

Dan Meyer (40:46):
Trained animals. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:48):
But the point is, I’m so excited, Dan. And you know, when I see you, I might just, it’s been so long since I’ve seen you, Dan. I’d love to give you a big old embrace.

Dan Meyer (41:04):
You might just, you might just cry. Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be great. Yeah. It’s gonna be awesome for you folks to see me and Bethany have a real awkward first hug since the pandemic. And, uh, but it’s gonna be a blast to hang with us in person. We’ll have some special guests, probably, some interesting segments. You folks should stop on by at NCTM, if you’re gonna be there. Highly recommended.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:29):
Now, we will be broadcasting that episode. You’re gonna get to hear … we’re gonna record it live. It’s gonna happen. In the meantime, you can find us at MTLshow on Twitter, or you can find us in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. We can’t wait to hear from you. And we’d love to hear what makes math joyful for you? Where can we add a little bit more joy to you this, this season? So thrilled to be back. Thanks for listening.

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What Kanchan Kant says about math

“Creating an equitable environment in the classroom is most important because once you have that, that’s when you have the relationships, and that’s when all students actually thrive.”

– Kanchan Kant

Meet the guest

As a math and computer science teacher at Newton North High School, Newton, MA, Kanchan has been sharing her love for math with her students for the past four years. Kanchan is instrumental in setting the culture and ethos of the mathematics department at her school in her role as the Assistant Department Head. Kanchan also leads the Math Department Grading Team and has been instrumental in making grading policies which are more equitable and bias resistant. In her new role as a Transformative Leaders of Massachusetts Fellow in collaboration with Springpoint and Barr Foundation, Kanchan looks forward to making equity and joy of learning the foundation of many more classrooms.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S5-04. Coaching tips for managing math anxiety in teachers

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So far this season, we’ve investigated math anxiety in students and its causes with passionate researchers and curriculum experts, including one from Sesame Workshop! Now we hear from Dr. Heidi Sabnani, consultant, coach, and co-host of Math 4 All, as she gives us research-based tips for teachers who are facing math anxiety themselves! Listen as we discuss Heidi’s own math anxiety and journey through math, the effects teacher math anxiety can have on instruction, and practices educators can implement right away for overcoming math anxiety.

Listen today and don’t forget to grab your MTL study guide to track your learning and make the most of this episode!

Download Transcript

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (00:00):

Coaching is the opportunity to provide that just-in-time kind of professional development for teachers, if we go at it in a slightly different way.

Dan Meyer (00:10):

Hey folks, welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m your host, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:14):

And I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:16):

Bethany, how are you doing, and how are you feeling about our current trajectory through this exploration of math anxiety?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:24):

Dan, I gotta tell you — let me make it about me for a second. <laugh>.

Dan Meyer (00:29):

Go. Do it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:30):

If only I had known that so many other people experienced math anxiety, and I wasn’t the only one. I mean, I’ve said it before, but you know, I hope that this series so far is helping to reframe math anxiety for folks who maybe have a narrow definition of it … and I guess expand, reframe. And also, for those folks who are working with students who have math anxiety, or who they themselves have experienced math anxiety, I hope they’ve found some tools, some resources. Right? Like, “Yes!”

Dan Meyer (01:04):

Yes! Same.

New Speaker (01:06):

And what about you? How are you feeling?

Dan Meyer (01:08):

Yeah, I hope this has been cathartic for all of our listeners who have experienced math anxiety, and not re-traumatizing, that there are lots of people who feel this way about math in particular. And that it’s so well-experienced, so broadly experienced, that people have decided to study it a whole bunch. Which is great. And now we’re moving into our kind of solutioning. You know, in my relationships, I’m sometimes told that I rush too quickly to solutions before trying to understand what’s going on. So I’ve loved our episodes that have been about what is going on. And now, with Dr. Truglio last episode and our guest today, we’re moving more into some solutions, which I’m excited about.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:49):

I don’t know, Dan, I think next time I see you I’m gonna bring a list of some concerns or worries I have, and I would love if you just get right to the solution. I’m actually OK with that.

Dan Meyer (02:01):

All right. Good to know. Good to know. I’ll say I am coming off of a day where I was feeling some teacher anxiety today, because I taught really real students. So just to let you know where I’m coming from here. I taught some seventh grade students at Montera Middle, here in Oakland Unified School District. Taught ’em a lesson outta the Desmos curriculum. And it was one of those lessons where some thorny stuff comes up. I’m talking students who are wrong for smart reasons, who are right for the wrong reasons, and their minds are working so hard trying to figure out inequalities. And I’m like trying to just step into that process as an educator with some curriculum and help shape those ideas. But it’s just … I don’t know, you want it to be as easy as like, “let me just show you how it’s done a few times, and now you got it.” But whew, some of these ideas, they take a long time to form up and they’re really easily reshaped by lots of stuff going on. So that’s where I’m at, anxiety-wise, right now. The teacher anxiety stuff.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:04):

I think there’s probably plenty of teachers who do kind of just say, this is how you do it. And so, from what I have seen of your teaching and what I know of the Desmos curriculum, it is such an opportunity to think hard about the things that we are assuming about our students, assuming about what we know about the math itself. And yeah, that requires some thought.

Dan Meyer (03:30):

Yeah, for sure. I came in ready, like, “When you multiply both sides of an inequality by a negative, this sign flips around.” And I could just say that to kids and say, “Hey, remember that! Write that down!” And a lot of them would do it really well, you know, provided the assessment problems looked like ones we’ve gone over in class. And they’re also learning — in addition to that math, they’re learning that math is a giant sack of tricks they gotta memorize, right? So there’s just these pros and cons. And at the end of the one period I’m gonna teach this week, I was like, “Well, your teacher’s gonna go over that tomorrow, when they’re with you instead of me.” So it felt a bit like I copped out on that one. And I’m just in in my feelings about that right now. And I’m gonna try to come on down here and be present in the math-anxiety world.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:25):

I appreciate you sharing that, Dan. And I think … I have a feeling that you could write a pretty catchy rhyme to allow the students to flip and <starting to rap> “multiply by negative. and dit-dit-dit-dit.” Can you feel it? You picking up that beat?

Dan Meyer (04:40):

Ooh, yeah. A nice little beat. Uh-huh. Yup.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:41):

Yeah. You know, you could come up with something pretty clever, and yet you did not lean on your wordsmithing skills. You said, “No, let us dive in.” So what are you gonna do with this lesson, by the way? What happens now? You popped in for one period, and then what happens?

Dan Meyer (05:03):

Yeah. So this is gonna be a blast. I hope you folks tune in. We’re gonna actually release the footage of me teaching this lesson live. You know, it’ll be replayed live. And on top of that, a couple of my favorite teacher coaches and just smart people about teaching are going to be giving commentary. They are gonna be giving the director’s commentary, the sports announcers’ commentary on what they’re seeing. I beg for their generosity in their commentary. But I think it’ll be a lot of fun. I’ve never seen anything like this before, a commentary track on top of a teaching lesson, in this way. So I’m just gonna gonna be excited to see what they noticed that I didn’t, what they might have done, the thoughts they might have. Maybe I’ll do a post-game interview, you know.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:50):

Ooh, yes!

Dan Meyer (05:50):

With my towel around my neck, <laugh> looking all sweaty.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:54):

Ready, set, grow!

Dan Meyer (05:55):

Like, “Yup, we gave it all out there, you know, just a real team effort.” You know, that kind of thing. We’ll see how that goes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:02):

I actually love that idea. I love that it’s not just this one random lesson that just kind of floats out there, and it’s about, you walk away with whatever feelings you have, and the students obviously walk away, but that this is gonna help other educators.

Dan Meyer (06:17):

Yeah. Yeah. We’ll multiply my anxiety and make it more people’s anxiety. We’ll see how that goes. So stay tuned on the Math Teacher Lounge feed for that. All right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:25):

All right! And speaking of anxiety, Dan Meyer, we gotta get to today’s show. You know, last time we had some amazing strategies for helping students from Dr. Truglio from Sesame Workshop. I gotta tell you, I sent that episode to so many of my friends, like, “Listen to these ideas!” and have had some interesting follow-up conversations. And we would love to hear what you think about this season so far, at MTLShow on Twitter or in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. So today, we’re gonna focus on strategies for supporting teachers.

Dan Meyer (07:00):

Yes. Which is why we’re so excited to bring to you folks Heidi Sabnani, who — we’ve had researchers. We’ve had Sesame Workshoppers. And Heidi Sabnani has been a classroom teacher; she’s teacher-consultant; newly minted doctoral degree holder. We’re so pumped to bring to you folks: Heidi Sabnani.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:25):

Dr. Sabnani, thank you for being here. Can we call you Dr. Heidi? What would you. …

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (07:31):

You can just call me Heidi. Yeah. Heidi is good.

Dan Meyer (07:36):

Right on.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:36):

  1. Heidi, thank you for joining us in the Lounge. We’re so excited to talk with you.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (07:41):

I am super-honored to be here. It’s really exciting and I just really appreciate the opportunity.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:47):

I will say I don’t have a PhD, although the two people I’m talking with right now, both do, and you’re both like holding up your degrees as we speak and saying, “Wah-wah.” But I imagine that if I did, I’d wanna throw that doctor in more frequently, so.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (08:02):

Well—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:03):

If I sneak in a “Doctor,” Heidi, it’s only out of respect.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (08:05):

  1. I appreciate it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:07):

Dan makes me call him Dr. Meyer all the time.

Dan Meyer (08:10):

You don’t call me Dr. Dan or Dr. Meyer, ever. So—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:13):

I will now!

Dan Meyer (08:14):

—this respect only goes towards Dr. Heidi, it seems. But yeah, we’ll take that off the air.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:19):

Well, we are going to delve into your research on math anxiety soon, because I actually — speaking of becoming a doctor, a new doctor, I have some questions. We have questions about your research, but on a personal level, I really appreciated the way that you share that you yourself experienced math anxiety as a student. So I’m wondering if you could tell us a bit about your own math anxiety, your <laugh> journey through math.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (08:50):

Yeah, so much like the people in the research that I did, and with the research that I read by others, many of us can tie the beginnings — or like the evil villain origin story of math anxiety — to a particular event, or series of events. And my series of events started, the big blow-up, I guess, in fourth grade. And I had had some struggles in school — I have mild dyslexia and dyscalculia. And so I had always been in the special group of kids who got some extra attention <laugh> from the teacher, or from an aide, or whoever happened to be in the room. But in fourth grade — at that time, they taught multiplication and division facts in fourth grade. Many, many moons ago. And I struggled greatly with just understanding what was happening and why we were moving so quickly. And, my teacher was probably not the best person to be entrusted with my learning at the time. Like, her style may have been OK for others, but it was obvious that she felt like kind of wasting her time with some people in the classroom. And I happened to be one of those people.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:26):

Mmm. You said that really diplomatically, though. <Laugh>

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (10:30):

Well, you know, you look back at things from the perspective of many years. And having made lots of mistakes myself in the classroom as a teacher, I try to give some grace to things that happened, and how you remember them. Yeah, that’s my story, but maybe she had a different one, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:55):

Yeah. But fourth grade Heidi was still, you know, still experiencing that. Yeah.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (11:01):

Yeah. Fourth-grade Heidi didn’t like being in the “dumb group” and didn’t like being told that she would probably not graduate from high school. So that was kind of the general environment. And I got further and further behind in math. The dyslexia was less and less of an issue the older I got, because I had great comprehension. And so I could figure out the fluency thing just by the pattern of language, because mine is mild in comparison to so many who struggle with that. But math was not working in that same way. And I got more and more behind and to the point where I was having to stay in every day at recess. And I had had it after like a month. Like, I’m not staying in at recess anymore to do this math that I don’t understand, by myself. Like, not doing it. So I—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:53):

Which, by the way, if there’s one way to make you hate it, <laugh> like, to engender, to endear you to a subject, could it be, “Let’s have you stay in at recess”?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (12:07):

Right. And so one day I just stormed out of the classroom, I was like, “I’m not coming. I’m not staying, I’m not doing this anymore. I’m done.” And I can remember her standing up at the top of the hill screaming at me to come back, and I was like, “No way. Not doing it. Done with this.” I went to a parochial school, though, and my dad is a pastor. So that whole little incident blew up in the greater community in a way that I didn’t really anticipate as a fourth grader. And my parents had no idea that this was going on. And so they were shocked and dismayed that their — up until that point — oldest child, rule-follower, had done this. But then even more upset when they found out what was happening with my math understanding, or lack thereof. And they did what they knew best at the time. So my mom was a great memorizer. She has a brain like an elephant. And my dad grew up in the British system in India and Singapore, and it was at that time very much based on memorization. And so they were like, “We are gonna just work really hard. We’re gonna buckle down and do this thing <laugh>.” And so that’s what we did, and that’s where all of it began. It was not — it was just about “We’re gonna learn the facts. We’re not gonna ask questions; we’re not gonna think about it, because it’s just the rules. And if you can figure out the rules or the system or what the teacher wants, and mimic what the teacher is doing, then you’ll be successful.” And it was really successful for me, once I figured that out all the way through. My whole goal in high school when I took high school math was to take enough math courses with a high-enough GPA that when I got my BA in college, that I would never have to take math again. And I succeeded in that and got an English degree and a Master’s in world lit. And I was in no way doing math ever again.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:31):

But little did you know that Future You was going to be researching math anxiety. How did you wind up researching it then? How did you wind up researching math anxiety?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (14:43):

So I took a job in school improvement when I was working in Ohio, after a number of years teaching high school English in Southern California and Guatemala and Michigan, all over the place. And I took a job in school improvement with a co-consultant who was gonna be doing the math end, and I was gonna be doing the literacy end, and we were just gonna go in, and I was gonna make kids love reading, and she was gonna make kids love math, and it was gonna be so fun. And then she decided she didn’t like working with adults and they couldn’t find anyone else. And my boss said, “So you’re just gonna do both for the rest of the year.” After that year, I got requested to go back and, and do this again. I said, “Well, if I’m gonna do this, I’m going to go back and reteach myself the math in ways that I wish that fourth-grade Heidi had learned it, and fourth-grade-and-up Heidi had learned it.” And so that was like the, the beginning of the switch. And so now equal amounts of time in my career have been spent in both. But when I started, when I continued working, when I left the classroom to continue working with teachers, and when I transitioned more into an elementary setting, I began to notice the same behaviors that I had in high school of avoiding math, and avoiding teaching math, were happening in the classrooms that I was supporting. And so I would have teachers come and say, “Oh, can we talk about this literacy thing?” And even if it was like a math meeting, or we were supposed to split the time evenly, and ohhh, for some reason the literacy time talk would just like move over <laugh>. And then there was no time to talk about math at the end. And “Oh, that’s just too bad.” Like, we’re just gonna move on to this next thing. Funny how that happens, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:32):

Yeah. <laugh>.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (16:34):

And noticing teachers’ behaviors around going to and or avoiding math professional development that I was giving. Or getting sick. Or like having to leave the room for a long period of time. And so I began to notice these behaviors. And initially I thought I wanted to look at math anxiety in children, which is one branch of the research that I started with. But as I got into things more, the people that I have the most influence in are adults right now.

Dan Meyer (17:09):

Right.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (17:09):

And so as I started looking at the research that had already been done, I feel like we do a really nice job of admiring the problem of math anxiety, and we do less in the “what to do about” phase. And so I was like, “Well, if I’m going to continue to be in this career and in this profession, then I need to be doing something in the space of ‘what are we gonna do about it?’” And so that’s how I switched to looking at “what do we do to help teachers?” Particularly elementary school teachers, because that’s the area of greatest need, based on previous research that we could at least do something to help.

Dan Meyer (17:51):

Yeah. A previous guest mentioned that a lot of research is better understood as me-search, especially in this kind of arena, where we’re going back in to try to understand what it was that happened for us and how to prevent it for future generations. And I have nothing but respect for that motivation right there. And your point is well-put, that it is very possible to spend a ton of time examining math anxiety from every angle, every facet, you know, put it up there on a mounted board and admire it … and there’s a lot of value there, but I appreciate that you’re moving into, “So, now what?”

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (18:27):

Yep.

Dan Meyer (18:28):

And so I’d love if you’d share with us and our listeners the broad details of your study, and what you ultimately found. Like, if there are any large takeaways here, what were they?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (18:40):

Yeah. So a couple of things to kind of just lay a little bit of the groundwork. One out of four teachers say that they have math anxiety. Those numbers increase rapidly, the younger of the grades that the teachers teach. So if we think about preK to two, it’s about 88%, based on other people’s research. So I was like, “Well that’s a lot of people <laugh>!” And so, that’s the scope of the problem. And so I was thinking, “OK, what do we do in these moments?” Because other researchers had said they’re spending — when they don’t like it, they’re spending less time teaching math and avoiding it, or relying on methods that were done to us. Just out of fear of trying something different, at many times. And so one thing that has become more prominent in math education since I transitioned 16 years ago into this has been the role of coaches in school systems. And so one of the questions I wanted to think about was, “What can coaches or math specialists who work with adults as well do to help the teachers that they work with?” So that was kind of the lens that I was looking at. Like, let’s think about the systems that we currently have in place. Is there something that we could be doing that would help teachers, that wouldn’t be so huge or so monumental that with little shifts in our own behavior as coaches or professional development providers that we could make that would make a difference? So that being said, this was a qualitative study, so a small group of people in very intense settings. So I kind of always wanna preface that, because in academic world, you know, there’s <laugh> all sorts of thoughts about that. So I had asked teachers from districts that I work with who self-identified as having math anxiety if they would be interested in the study. So, this is what we’re thinking of, this is what it would look like, and the scope of the support they would have.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:50):

So basically you’re tracking these four teachers who self-identified as math anxious. And were you serving as their coach and kind of seeing what was working?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (21:00):

I was serving as their coach. Yeah. I was serving as their coach during that time period. And some fairly recent research that had been done was in the idea of “Can we do some reflective conversations or reflective writing around where your math anxiety started, and how that makes you feel both as a teacher of mathematics now, because you are teaching math, and how that affects your identity as a mathematician?” And so that was the first starting point. And that was a really critical moment that I’m glad that I had stumbled across the research on, because it turned out that having someone hear and acknowledge that what happened to them was both wrong and inappropriate, in many cases, and in a couple instances, was traumatic and also abusive — that that mattered. That it was OK to feel anger and hurt and frustration based on what happened to you in the past. And then have that moment to reflect on, “OK, so what do you want the classroom environment that you’re building as a teacher to feel like for your students?” So it was turning that moment of how they felt to thinking about, then, what kind of environment do we wanna make within the math classroom? And what steps can we take to ensure that happens? So that was like, Step One is just thinking about what that looks like. What kind of math identities then do you want to create for your students? Because all of the teachers were very concerned with not continuing the cyclical nature that often happens with math anxiety, from teacher to student and back again.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:54):

Well, and even that validation, right? Like, how many of them hadn’t even had, like you said, had that? We had another, when in our first episode, Dr. Gerardo Ramirez talked about that validation and how key.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (23:09):

Yeah. That was the first thing. The next step of it, which very different from what I often do — I don’t generally go in and model for teachers — just me, taking over your classroom. I really like to co-plan with teachers and co-teach with teachers and have it not feel like they’re losing control over what’s happening in that moment. And that’s generally the way that I go in when I’m doing professional development in a classroom, right? Like, I’m working with the teacher and we’re a team; we’re doing this together. But in these four cases, these teachers were very, very resistant <laughs> to co-teaching. And so I said, “OK, well, let’s throw everything out. Let’s try whatever it happens to be.” So the modeling aspect turned out to be really important, in part when three out of the four cases, because they were like, “Oh, I can do that.” <laugh> like, Well, yeah, I know you can! Like, it was that having a moment to sit back and see someone else doing it — which is harder to do when you’re co-teaching, right? It’s harder to be reflective in the moment when you’re still thinking about the teaching choices you’re making, because you’re both co-teaching.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:24):

Right. Or sometimes you see, like in co-teaching, it falls into “one teach, one manage,” you know, or something like that.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (24:31):

Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:31):

I have definitely fallen into that. But you, by modeling … it was almost, I don’t know, it feels like you’re kind of holding their hand. Like, “I’ll show you!” And not that it has to exactly look like that, right? But you found if a coach is coming in and the teacher gets to sit back and basically watch their students learn, they’re probably gettinga ton of information about their students, and they’re really learning some teaching strategies for mathematics that they can then like dip their toe in. I think? <Laugh> Am I kind of thinking of this? I’m trying to picture this and it feels rich and rife with possibilities <laugh>.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (25:16):

Well, and it, it turned it from … I think sometimes, when I go into a classroom, I learn so much from watching teachers and being able to sit and listen to students, that you don’t always have the luxury of when you’re the teacher. <Laugh> Right? It’s so much harder to be like, “OK, I’m gonna be watching what a kid does, because I’m hoping someone uses this strategy, so I can connect it to this other person’s strategy, so that we can take that apart and look at it and really have immediate discussion around it.” Those are all so many things that are happening in the moment as a teacher. You don’t get to sit back and look at it from a researcher kind of lens. Or look, you know, from the up-above lens. And when I had these conversations with teachers, I was like, “That’s what I want you to do. I want you to be able to sit back and look at all the things that are happening.” Because then you begin to notice not only the moves that the teacher — in this case, me — who was modeling for them was doing, but also the student conversations. And it was almost like having a case study within that moment, where they got to sit back and just experience, versus thinking about all the decisions that they would make at the moment. So that was something that was really surprising to me.

Dan Meyer (26:33):

Yeah. And I love the idea that they’re seeing the pedagogical moves, but they’re also experiencing perhaps a sense of math that’s de-stressed. You know, they are allowing themselves to sit next to students and feel as though they are a student, in ways that if you’re co-teaching, you are still like enmeshed in the gears of the whole lesson. I wonder if that’s a part of this too. So I’m hearing from you that we’re taking these teachers who have all admitted to some math anxiety, and that one of the interventions, or one of the findings, was that modeling worked really well for, again, this set of teachers. But you modeling lessons that highlighted mathematics, that was less anxious, that helped the teachers see that students were engaging in really productive un-anxious ways, brave ways. Were there other kinds of takeaways that you experienced there?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (27:24):

Yeah. So in addition to that, we had to think about and start at Step One. One of the teachers that I worked with had done her student teaching with a teacher who had math anxiety, and who never taught math. And so she entered her teaching career, never having taught math before or seen it taught. And so in her situation, she had had one course in her teacher preparation program, that was on fractions.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:54):

That’s often the case, right? One math methods course! Help, we have to get it all in in this semester! <Laugh>

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (28:01):

<Laugh> Yes. And so she came in and said, “I feel like I have to start at the beginning.” And so there was no question that was inappropriate, or that we weren’t going to explore or think about. And so that was, I think, the starting place with that particular teacher. And then one other, who was kind of in her same age range, where we had to start thinking about, “OK, how did you learn as a learner? What ways are you seeing your students learn as learners? And then let’s focus on those first as the areas that you wanna explore in your teaching.” And so a lot of that ended up being much more visual and hands-on ways of exploring. And so those were some of the changes in, I think, pedagogy that were the most significant. In a couple of cases, these are early elementary teachers who had had one experience with manipulatives in their whole teaching career up until that point. And so one teacher brought me a bucket of Cuisenaire rods and said, “These are in my room. I don’t know what they are. <Laugh> Are we building things with them? Are they blocks that are just small? <Laugh> Like what are they for?”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:20):

Yes!

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (29:21):

And so, <laugh> it was that idea of, “OK, let’s, let’s explore all the different ways that we can use these, and that we can think about how your students might learn best with this particular tool that you have in your room.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:34):

So hearing you talk about this research — which by the way, I know, you’re like, for our listeners, it’s all, “Quick, boil down your years and hours of research and synthesize it for us.”

Dan Meyer (29:50):

Your life’s work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:50):

In a little tiny neat package. But really though, even though I know there’s so many layers to your research, and your work with these teachers, I wanna flag for our listeners that even the things that you’ve identified for us, you were giving teachers space — as coach, giving teachers space, and validating their experience as a mathematician, as you know, as a young student, right? Making space for that experience and validating “Yeah, that was really lousy and your math anxiety is real.” Like, Step One is already powerful. And then you’re creating space where they get to be in their classroom as a learner, right? And have a lesson modeled. And then you’re creating more <laugh> space for them to learn and ask questions. And I have absolutely seen teachers like, “I don’t know what to do with these,” and kind of shove aside the district-provided tools or the curriculum-provided tools. And so even those things, Heidi — Dr. Heidi <laugh> — you know, even if … I don’t know, for me, I am listening to you and just holding those points in mind and feeling like that, alone, if a coach did even just that … I know there’s so much more to it, but what a powerful opportunity for reclaiming math as an educator, right? That’s what I’m feeling.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (31:25):

Well, and I was hoping that there wouldn’t be … I mean, OK, it’s a double-sided hope. If there was something like so novel and so fantastic that was so different from the things that we have already at our disposal, that would’ve made a much better book or dissertation. <Laugh> But the reality is, there are things that we already know work. And we don’t often take the time or, or are given the time to be able to explore those things. Right? So even as coaches, you have district initiatives or things like, “this is what we’re working on this year,” and that’s fantastic, right? We keep those things moving forward. But if we’re thinking about coaching teachers with math anxiety, no teacher with math anxiety is going to be coming to NCTM.

Dan Meyer (32:16):

Right. Right. Or the training.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (32:19):

Or the training. They’re like, “Oh, PD day? Literacy! Yes, please! Bye!” You know, it’s that piece of it. So when we have these moments, the coaching is the opportunity to provide that just-in-time kind of professional development for teachers, if we go at it in a slightly different way. It does not have to be huge. It can be things like, they feel that they’re stronger in literacy. Well, then, let’s explore some of the ideas around math, anxiety and math identity and examples of people who’ve overcome either those things or other barriers in their life. And how can those things help form not only your students’ math identity, but your math identity. And it gives entry points in ways that you have access to if you’re a person’s coach.

Dan Meyer (33:18):

So in that sense, I’d love to know from you, if someone came to you at a coach’s meeting at NCSM and asked you, “What is something I can do right now to support the teachers at my site and my district, who are commonly experiencing math anxiety?” What is something that you would offer them in that brief moment you had with that coach?

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (33:40):

So it is hearing their story first. That’s the big one. And then, can you, in your coaching, provide opportunities to slow down? We all have these pacing guides in some form or another, that drive the things that are coming. Is there a way that you can set up meetings a month or more in advance of the content that those teachers are going to teach? Can we explore a month in advance, that content? And ways to teach it and understand it? There’s the ways to teach it, but there’s also like, “What is this math and how do kids experience this math?” What kind of experiences do we want to have ourselves as learners and then have as kids? If we can create cycles like that, that then don’t feel so rushed. It’s so hard when we’re like, “Oh, we have a planning meeting and we’re meeting with our coach!” And you’re teaching this lesson tomorrow. “Learn all this stuff about adding and subtracting on a number line. Go!” It’s so fast. And so if we had those opportunities to build in cycles, where we could slow down that process, it would make a huge difference in the lives of so many teachers. And it’s finding that time and the willingness. If you listen to teachers, they will work with you. If you validate what happens to them, and acknowledge that sometimes that still happens to us. I mean, I still have experiences like that. Sometimes I’ll walk into a classroom and I’m like, “Oh, I forgot how to do that!” You know, like, “I’ve not reached that far in my remaking of my own education!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:24):

Yehhhh, heh heh heh.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (35:25):

<laugh>. And you think, “I don’t wanna look like an idiot. I’m the math consultant who’s here to duh duh duh.” All of those things still come up. Yeah. And stopping and saying like, “OK, everybody, this is what’s happening to me right now.” <laugh> The vulnerability you have, you have to think about that. Even if you don’t have experiences of math anxiety in your own life. Let’s say you always rocked out in math, and you’re now a math specialist and you love it. You think it’s the most spectacular thing. There’s some other element in your life where you face some anxiety. All of us do. So it’s about thinking about, “OK, this is where I experience anxiety. Can I find that in the teachers that I work with? And then, can my teachers find that in the students they work with?” You know, the teachers, as they begin to reflect on their own experiences, began noticing which students always went to the nurse during math time, always asked to go to the bathroom during math time, always couldn’t find a pencil, or whatever it happened to be. And they began to be more aware of their students’ behaviors as well, and could then say, “Hey, let’s sit and talk about how you feel in math class. Like, I’ve been noticing that when it’s time for math, like your stomach hurts. Can we talk about like why that might be?” Because those teachers with math are more attuned, often, to those students. And so it just … the time factor, I guess is, is the bottom line.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:59):

I just wanna say, it’s so great to have you in the Lounge. Because I think you’re really bringing this perspective that we haven’t talked about, which … we are not expecting coaches to walk in and know it all. That’s actually the exact opposite. You are allowed to be vulnerable. We are not saying, “Come,” quote-unquote, “Fix this.” It’s like, “Hey, how can you facilitate and make space?” And I feel like you have given us just a taste of like how that might be possible. And you know, I think even if it’s just a chance for teachers to reflect on their own experience in math, even that would probably be kind of revolutionary for — and I don’t say that word lightly — for some PD spaces, especially if they have another peer in their team that is like quote-unquote, “a whiz,” or like, “Oh, I don’t feel like I can be vulnerable in my math anxiety because this teacher seems to know it all.” But you’re creating space where it’s like, “Hey, we all have strengths. We all have areas where we could support each other.” And I love that invitation for coaches. I love that invitation for teachers. And … yeah. I’m just, I’m so glad we get a snapshot of your research. Again, I know, I respect that this is not the whole thing!

Dan Meyer (38:22):

Can we find … is there a link to your dissertation in the show notes, for those of us who peruse dissertations? Can we add something here? Think about —

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (38:29):

Oh, I have no idea!

Dan Meyer (38:30):

Just think about it. Just think about it. But —

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (38:34):

It’s somewhere on ProQuest. It did get some. …

Dan Meyer (38:36):

Right on.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:36):

Is that a thing, Dan? Could I go, like, Google your dissertation?

Dan Meyer (38:39):

You definitely could. Yeah, for sure. It’s around. Yeah, same way. Well, that’s awesome. And I think it’s so helpful for those who write those enormous unwieldy essays to, you know, distill it in different ways. I hope it’s been … we’ve enjoyed so much, hearing you carve up a huge project into pieces that were really helpful for us to think about here in the Lounge. Thank you so much for coming on and hanging out with us. Dr. Sabnani, it’s been a pleasure.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (39:06):

Hey, I’m happy to do it any time. Always the biggest joy in the work that I do is little changes in a positive direction.

Dan Meyer (39:18):

Right on.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (39:19):

That’s all that this is about. Right? Whether it’s kids, whether it’s teachers, whether it’s administration. The work that we all do is so valuable, and it is more and more difficult over time. And just giving ourselves a little bit of space to think about and acknowledge that, I think, is really important. So I appreciate you all making space as well. And thinking about this idea. Because <laugh> we’re math people! And we don’t have math anxiety! Right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:51):

<laugh>

Dan Meyer (39:51):

So people would assume

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (39:54):

<laugh>. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:54):

Thank you so much. You’re welcome back in the Lounge anytime. <laugh> Thanks so much for listening to our conversation with Dr. Heidi Sabnani, consultant and co-host of the show “Math for All.” I can’t get enough about talking about math anxiety!

Dan Meyer (40:13):

Especially from people who are working with teachers so closely.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:18):

Yes, totally. I loved that lens of, “Hey, look at what happens if we actually focus on the teacher’s experience and help them kind of reclaim this comfort, this sense of identity, relationship with math that’s positive. How does that impact their teaching?” I loved talking about it, and I’m really interested in how that work continues to evolve. So thank you so much Dr. Sabnani, for your time. And you know, listeners, please keep in touch with us on our Facebook, in our discussion group, Math Teacher Lounge Community, or you can find us on Twitter at MTL show.

Dan Meyer (40:58):

If you haven’t already, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get podcasts. Also, if you like what you’re hearing, please rate us and leave us a review. It will help more listeners find the show. And it just makes me and Bethany feel good about ourselves, too. You can find more information on all of Amplify’s shows at our new podcast hub. Go to Amplify.com/hub.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:20):

You know, Dan, I also always like to say, I find most of my podcasts through recommendations from other listeners, friends, folks. So if you like what you’re hearing, share it in your teacher lounge. Just, like, on break, turn it up and start vibing and having the conversation right there.

Dan Meyer (41:40):

Yep. Yep. I got a better idea. Take the link to this podcast and then copy it and find the longest — the thread in your inbox with the most people on it. One of those ones that’s like, someone accidentally cc’d like 500 people, everyone at your school. Press “reply.” This is crucial. Not “reply,” but “reply all.” Paste that link in. Press “send.” Watch what happens.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:04):

Nothing but good —

Dan Meyer (42:04):

Good fortune will be yours.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:06):

Nothing but good things can happen when you send this to 500 people in the next 10 minutes. Next time on Math Teacher Lounge, we’re gonna be joined by Dr. Marjorie Schaeffer of St. Mary’s College for a conversation about math anxiety, and specifically Dan, how parents and caregivers, how their disposition influences the way their kiddos feel about math.

Dr. Marjorie Schaeffer (42:29):

I think the most important thing we know from literature right now is that high-math-anxious parents, when they interact with their children, their children learn less math over the course of the school year.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:40):

And get this, she’s gonna talk to us about an app that just might be something worth, you know, heading over to the app store for.

Dan Meyer (42:49):

I’ve used some apps, I have opinions, and I can’t wait. We just share recommendations on apps with Dr. Schaeffer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:56):

That’s next time on Math Teacher Lounge. Thanks so much for listening.

Stay connected!

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What Dr. Heidi Sabnani says about math

“Much like the people in my research, many of us can tie the beginnings or the ‘evil villain origin story’ of our own math anxiety to an event or series of events.”

– Dr. Heidi Sabnani

Consultant and Co-host of Math 4 All

Meet the guest

Heidi Sabnani is always surprised that she works in math education. She developed math anxiety as a young student and spent much of her school life and early career avoiding math. After teaching English in the United States and Guatemala, and earning her MA in World Literature, she found herself in the uncomfortable position of working in math classrooms as a school improvement consultant. Once she realized that her life was going to involve math, Heidi decided to relearn math in the ways she wished she had learned the first time around. 18 years later she is still learning with and from the students and teachers she has the privilege to serve.

Heidi’s doctoral research at Northeastern University focused on interventions for math anxiety in elementary teachers. She currently works as a consultant, speaker, and author.

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S3-04: Using AI and ChatGPT in the science classroom

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In the latest episode of the Science Connections podcast, we explore AI in education and its impact on students. Listen as I sit down with teachers Donnie Piercey and Jennifer Roberts to discuss ChatGPT and how we can use it to build science and literacy skills in K–12 classrooms while preparing students for the real world.

And don’t forget to grab your Science Connections study guide to track your learning and find additional resources!

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Jennifer Roberts (00:00:00):

If a kid graduates from school without knowing that AI exists, they’re not gonna be prepared for what they face out in the world.

Eric Cross (00:00:07):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross.

Eric Cross (00:00:12):

This season of the podcast, we’re making the case for everyone’s favorite underdog, science. Recently we’ve been highlighting the magic that can come from integrating science and literacy. So if you haven’t checked out those recent episodes, definitely go back in your feed after you’re done with this one. This time around, we’re going to deep dive into what artificial intelligence means for literacy instruction, and how science can be a force for good, in responsibly exposing students to AI. To help me out, I’m joined by two extremely accomplished educators. Jen Roberts, a veteran high-school English teacher from San Diego, who among many things runs the website LitAndTech.com. And I’m also joined by fifth-grade teacher Donnie Piercey. In addition to being Kentucky’s 2021 Teacher of the Year, Donnie also has an upcoming book about bringing AI into the classroom. Whether you’ve never heard of ChatGPT or whether you’re already using it every day, I think you’ll find this a valuable discussion about the intersection of science, English, and technology. Here’s Jen and Donnie.

Eric Cross (00:01:17):

So first off, welcome to the show. It’s good to see you all. What I wanna do is kind of start off by introducing both of you. And so we’ll just go K–12. So <laugh>, Donnie.

Jennifer Roberts (00:01:30):

Donnie goes first.

Eric Cross (00:01:31):

Donnie’s gonna go first. Donnie out in Kentucky. Just a little background. What do you teach; how long you’ve been in the classroom; and what are you having fun with right now?

Donnie Piercey (00:01:38):

Yeah, so my name is Donnie Piercey. I’m a fifth-grade teacher from Kentucky. Live and teach right here in Lexington, Kentucky, right in the center of the state. I’m the 2021 Kentucky Teacher of the Year. But I’ve been teaching elementary school for the past … I think this is year 16 or 17. It’s long enough where I’ve lost count, and I can’t even count on fingers anymore. My friends like to joke that I’ve taught long enough where now I can count down. You know, it’s like, “All right, only so many more years left.” But yeah, teach all subjects. Science definitely is one of the subjects that I don’t just try to squeeze into my day, but make sure that … it’s not even a devoted subject, but one that I definitely try to — don’t just have that set time, but also try to do some cross-curricular stuff with it. So definitely the rise of AI in these past few months, which feels like years by this point, has definitely played quite the role, in not just changing the way that I’ve been teaching science, but really all my subjects. So, excited to chat with y’all about it.

Eric Cross (00:02:47):

Nice. I’m excited that you’re here. And Jen?

Jennifer Roberts (00:02:51):

Hi, I’m Jen Roberts. I teach ninth-grade English at Point Loma High School, and that’s where I usually stop when I introduce myself. But for your sake—

Eric Cross (00:03:00):

I will keep introducing you if you stop there. <laugh>

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:04):

I am nationally board-certified in English Language Arts for early adolescence. I am the co-author of a book called Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning, from Stenhouse, with my fabulous co-author Diana Neebe. Shout out to Diana. I blog at LitAndTech.com about teaching and technology and literacy and the intersection of those things. And I’m looking forward to talking about how AI is showing up in my classroom and the fun things I’m doing with it.

Donnie Piercey (00:03:31):

And one of us is actually secretly a robot, and you have to guess which one.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:35):

Have to guess which one. Yes. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:03:37):

That would be super-meta. And you were the CUE — Computer-Using Educator — outstanding teacher or educator? Whatever. Either one. Of the year.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:45):

I was the CUE ’22 Outstanding Educator. Yes. And I’ve won a few other things as well.

Eric Cross (00:03:53):

The gaming backpack.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:54):

I’ve won a gaming backpack recently! Yes. I once won an iPad in a Twitter chat.

Eric Cross (00:03:58):

What?

Donnie Piercey (00:03:58):

What’s a gaming backpack? Hold on. We need to talk about that.

Jennifer Roberts (00:04:01):

We will talk about that. <laugh> And then, I was once a finalist for county Teacher of the Year. That’s as close as I got to Donnie. Donnie was the Kentucky Teacher of the Year. He got to go to the White House and stuff. That was exciting.

Donnie Piercey (00:04:13):

<laugh> I mean, to be fair, there’s only three million people in Kentucky, and about what, 50 million people that live in California? <Laugh> So odds are definitely stacked in my favor, I think.

Jennifer Roberts (00:04:23):

So you’re saying we’re even there? Is that, is that what you’re going for?

Donnie Piercey (00:04:25):

Yeah, evens out. Evens out.

Eric Cross (00:04:27):

So I’ve been looking forward to talking to you both for a while now, and talking about artificial intelligence. It’s like the big thing. And both of you, at different ends of the spectrum and in my life, have contributed to this. Donnie, you’ve been sharing so much great information online about how you’re using AI in elementary. Jen, you are the reason I got into education technology years ago, right when I was becoming a teacher. And so being able to talk with you both about it excites me a lot. So first off, for the listeners who may not have any experience with it — and there’s still a lot of people out there who have not been exposed to it, haven’t got their feet wet with it yet — I’m hoping we could start off maybe with an explanation of … we could do AI, ChatGPT, I know that’s the big one. But simply explaining what it is, just for the new person. And whoever wants to start off can tell us about it. Or maybe we’ll start … we’ll, let’s actually, let’s do this: Let’s continue going like K–12? So Donnie, maybe you could … what’s your pitch to the new person of, “Hey, this is what it is”?

Donnie Piercey (00:05:31):

All right. So, AI, artificial intelligence, probably the way that most people are exposed to it, at least since November when it launched, is through ChatGPT. Where if you Google it, you know it’s made by a company called OpenAI. The best way to describe what it is … when you go there for the first time, make an account, it’s free. You have like a little search window, looks like a Google search bar. And instead of searching for information, you can ask it to create stuff for you. So for example, like on Google search, you might type in a question like, “Who was the 19th president of the United States?” Where on ChatGPT, instead of just searching for information, it creates stuff for you. So you could say, you could ask it to, “Hey, write a poem about the 19th president of the United States.” Or, “Write a short little essay comparing, I don’t know, Frederick Douglass to Martin Luther King Jr.” And it would do that for you. You know, that’s most people’s first exposure to AI, at least in these past few months. Instead of … you know, it’s artificial intelligence, but it’s not just chatbots. There’s lots of other AI that exist out there.

Jennifer Roberts (00:06:47):

And I think that’s the thing: that people don’t realize how much AI is already in their lives.

Donnie Piercey (00:06:51):

For sure. Yeah.

Jennifer Roberts (00:06:52):

You know, they just haven’t seen … the term that I see being used a lot now is “generative AI.” AI that can produce something. It can produce writing, it can produce art, it can produce a script, it can produce a character. But the AI that has been helping you pick what to watch next on Netflix and the AI that’s helping Google help you get where you wanna go on Google Maps faster, those are forms of artificial intelligence as well.

Donnie Piercey (00:07:21):

Yeah. I mean, even those, when you get that that message in Gmail, and instead of having to type out that response that says, “Yeah, that sounds great,” you can just click the little button that says, “Yeah, that sounds great.” I mean, that’s been in Gmail for years, but that’s artificial intelligence too.

Eric Cross (00:07:39):

Absolutely. So why is it important, do you think, for educators to, to be familiar with it? Like, why are we all so excited about it?

Jennifer Roberts (00:07:47):

So, educators need to know what kids are into, and kids are obviously into ChatGPT. And anyone who’s an educator right now has probably already had something cross their desk — or more likely their computer screen — that was written by AI and passed off as a student’s own work. And that is, of course, the great fear among teachers everywhere, that this is what kids are just gonna do these days and they won’t be able to catch it and children won’t be doing their own work and this and this. But I think the big reason teachers need to know what’s going on is because teachers need to be futurists. Our clientele will live in the future. We teach kids, kids will become adults, adults will live in the world. And so if we’re not thinking about and trying to predict on some level what’s gonna happen 5, 10, 15 years from now … we might be wrong, but what if we’re right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:08:38):

And if we’re not at least trying to think about what is their future world gonna look like, then we’re not serving our students well. I did a whole night talk on that. So I think ChatGPT is part of that. I teach seniors. I had this moment of realization I felt a few months ago. I’m like, “This is gonna be the world they graduate into. They need to know what this is before they leave me.” If I don’t teach them how to use this well, and not the way they’re using it — which is to copy and paste the teacher’s assignment and drop it into ChatGPT and take whatever it spits out and turning that in without even looking at it — if I don’t teach ’em how to use it critically, if I don’t teach them how to write effective prompts, if I don’t teach them how to use the AI as a tool, as a collaborator, then they’re gonna graduate into a world where they lose out to people who do know how to do that. And I think the advantage goes to kids who have access and knowledge of what’s in front of them and what’s available, and can use all of the tools at their disposal. Because when you’re writing in school and you write with a collaborator, that could be considered cheating. But when you do that out in the adult world, that’s considered doing a good job. <Laugh> Being a team player. <Laugh> You know, adults don’t work alone for the most part. And adults are expected to churn out beautiful, perfect content no matter how they got there. So if I’m not teaching my kids how to use this, they’re not being ready. They’re not gonna be ready to be the adults that I want them to be.

Donnie Piercey (00:10:07):

A hundred percent agree. And I also believe … as you know, I teach elementary school. I also don’t think anybody is saying that on the first day of kindergarten, you hand a kid a Chromebook and load up an AI chatbot or ChatGPT and say, Hey, this thing’s gonna do all your work for you for the next 12 years; just coast through life. You don’t have to think creatively. You don’t have to learn how to develop a paragraph or learn how to write a speech or develop an idea. Like, I don’t think anybody’s saying that, because as an elementary school teacher, there’s many days when I’m like, “Y’all, we’re just putting the Chromebooks away today and we’re just gonna go old-school. We’re just gonna maybe just jot down five quick ideas and stand up and present those ideas to the class.”

Donnie Piercey (00:10:54):

Because while AI definitely will, like you were saying, Jen, play a significant role in the lives of our students who are, not just graduating, but the 10- and 11-year-olds in my classroom this year. A significant role in their lives. It’s also really important to recognize that we’re not saying that this means that “Hey, kids don’t have to work anymore.” They still have to put forth that effort. There’s still — one of the ways that you become a good writer is by trial and error. And sometimes that trial and error comes through talking to a teacher or talking like you were saying to a peer or collaborating with a peer and saying to them, “Well, this sentence here, this paragraph here, really doesn’t make sense.” And I do believe one of the ways — especially as AI starts to become more fine-tuned and starts to be embedded more and more in tools like Google Docs and Microsoft Word — is it’s almost going to be a tutor to students.

Donnie Piercey (00:11:56):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Where I could very easily see in a few years, or maybe a few months, who knows what Google or any of these other big companies has rolling out, where a student could highlight a paragraph that they wrote simply, and then say, “Hey, proofread this for me,” or “Check for coherence.” Or even just ask a simple question: “Does this paragraph make sense?” Because you can already do that. You can copy a paragraph over into a chatbot and say, “Hey, does this make sense?” You know, “Rate my idea from one to 10,” and it’ll do that for ’em.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:26):

We did that last week <laugh>.

Donnie Piercey (00:12:28):

Yeah. Right. I mean, that’s the thing. That technology exists now. It’s just not totally embedded yet. But based on what I’ve read and what I’ve seen, that’s gonna happen sooner rather than later. And it’s really, really important that we teach our students that, “No, you’re not just gonna use this, this tool to cheat, but you can use this tool to help you become a more creative student.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:50):

This is the use case in my classroom. Can I talk about that? You ready for that?

Eric Cross (00:12:53):

Please.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:54):

OK.

Eric Cross (00:12:54):

Please.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:55):

So my ninth graders are writing a comparative analysis essay, where I took them to the student art gallery and I made them pick two pieces of completely unknown student art and take notes on it, so they could go back and write this essay. And as soon as we got back to class, I said, can ChatGPT write this for you? And they all kind of froze ’cause I didn’t tell them what ChatGPT was. And they weren’t sure if they were allowed to know or not. And finally one of them kind of bravely raised his hand and said, “No.” And I said, “Why not?” And he said, “Well, the AI hasn’t seen the art. How can it write an essay about art when the art is completely original that we just went and looked at?” I said, “It’s almost like I planned it that way, isn’t it?” And they laughed nervously. And then I said, “Does that mean it can’t help us with this assignment?” And they said, “Well, no — of course it can’t help us, because it has not seen the art.” And I said, “Well. …” And I open ChatGPT, and I typed in what they were trying to do: “I need to write a comparative analysis essay comparing two pieces of student art on these reasons. And I need to choose which one did it better, basically. Can you help me with an outline?” and ChatGPT produced a lovely outline. And I looked at that with my students and we looked at it together and I said, “This is what it gave us. Would this be helpful to you?” And they’re like, “Yeah, that would be helpful to us.” So we — to be clear here, I was the only one using ChatGPT in the room. They were not actually using it. We were using it together. I copied and pasted the outline that it gave us and put it in their learning management system where they could access it so they could use the outline that the robot provided, and then they could use that to make their own writing better. So then I let them write for a little while, and, after they’d written for a little while, I said, “Does anybody wanna let me share your first paragraph with ChatGPT and see what it thinks of how you’re doing?” And a brave student raised his hand and we took his paragraph and we put it in ChatGPT, and it spit back advice. We said, “This is what I have so far for my first paragraph. Do you have any advice for me?” And we gave it the writing, and the first piece of advice it gave back was very generic, you know, “Add a hook,” you know, like kind of thing. But after that, it started to get more specific about things he was actually doing in his writing. And it started to give him some feedback. And we looked at that together as a class. And I said, “Does any of that feedback help you?” And he said, “Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m gonna go add some revisions to my paragraph.” And other students did too. They looked at the feedback he got and used that to improve their writing. And so everybody went and revised. And I said, “Look, if you take what the robot gives you and you copy and paste it, and you turn it in as your own work, it’s gonna get flagged for plagiarism. And that’s not gonna go well. But if it gives you writing advice the same way I would give you writing advice, and you decide that advice is good, and you take that advice and you incorporate it into your own writing yourself, then the robot’s making you better, but you’re still the one doing your own writing.” And the writing they turned in from that assignment was, was better. It wasn’t written by ChatGPT; it was still about the student art that they found in the gallery. But I showed them a path. Like, it can help you with an outline, it can help you with feedback. Right? These are fair ways to use it that’s gonna make you better. And they really liked that. They really liked — no one had shown them that before. The idea that you don’t just take the teacher’s prompt and give it to it … like, these are new uses to students and worked well.

Eric Cross (00:16:17):

So right now, you both just laid out these ways that you’re using it. And I do this with people that I’m trying to introduce to ChatGPT or AI. ‘Cause I get excited. Anyone could write a 500-word persuasive essay on the use of color in The Great Gatsby or The Outsiders, and they can get something back within seconds. But for a lot of educators, it might feel like the sky is falling.

Donnie Piercey (00:16:43):

Oh, understandably! Understandably. I mean, that totally makes sense.

Eric Cross (00:16:49):

What would you say to them? Donnie, go ahead.

Donnie Piercey (00:16:51):

Yeah. Well, I feel like every teacher kind of goes through the same experience when they see like a generative chatbot. I mean, all these major companies are gonna start incorporating AI, the generative AI piece. And a lot of times, when they see it for the first time, two things. First they’ll say “Oh, but I’ll know that that’s not my students’ writing.” Which, frankly, I think is a good thing, because that tells me that the teachers know their students’ writing. They’ve seen them write in person. They’ve conferenced with them one-on-one. And if a student were to turn something in to me, who I know might be a struggling writer, maybe it’s not their strength, and all of a sudden they’re turning in this10-page dissertation-worthy thesis written at a PhD level, I’m like, “All right, man, you’re nine. Can we talk about where this came from?” <laugh> But I also don’t think that at like the heart, I don’t feel like kids want to cheat. I really don’t. I feel like sometimes like kids are in a situation where they’re like, “OK, I’ve got nothing left. I gotta get this assignment done.” And when those kind of things happen, that’s when we as teachers, we have those one-on-one conversations. Even when I showed my students ChatGPT and even some of the AI image-generating stuff for the first time, and I talked to them about, “What do y’all think about this?” Because, you know, they’re under 13. In my district, ChatGPT is blocked for students. Staff, we have access to it. And that’s just because one, it’s so new, and at the same time, we need to figure out, “What’s the best way they can go about using this tool?” But when we were talking about it as a class, you know, I didn’t want to ignore the elephant in the room. So I asked them, I said, “Hey, do you feel like this is something that you all would use to. …” I mean, I used the word. I said “cheat.” And to be honest, the majority of the students in my class, they were taken aback. They’re like, “What? You think we just would cheat all the time?” Right? <Laugh> And I’m like, “Oh, well good. I’m glad to know that integrity is still alive and well.” But yeah, that’s definitely my thoughts on it, as far as not only the student integrity piece — I think that that’s the big thing that you need to just bring up with your students. Because again, I like to think that I’ve seen my students write enough that if they were going to turn something in that wasn’t their voice, or it didn’t sound like them, like I could have that conversation. And don’t be surprised, too, if in the next … I don’t know, one month to a year, there’s lots of AI detectors that exist. A lot of them are these like third-party things. You can go ahead, but I would not be surprised if in the next year or so, like you start to see those AI detectors be built into Google Docs, into Microsoft Word, into even Canva. And honestly, it’s almost like a fail-safe button for teachers, that we could say “All right, this is telling me that this is 99% probably written by AI.” So you can have that conversation with a student that way.

Jennifer Roberts (00:20:03):

I mean, if you’re worried about it, Formative, right now, will even tell you if something is copy-and-pasted into the boxes that they give you for students to write in. I find that kids who cheat are desperate, you know. Especially at the high school level. They’re panic mode. And, and usually their panic comes from, “I have no idea how to even start this assignment.” And so part of what I wanna use ChatGPT for is to lower that barrier for them. Like, you’ve got an assignment, you don’t know where to start. Tell the robot, tell ChatGPT, about the assignment and ask it for a list of steps. You know, ask it for an outline. Ask it for a time management plan. I see so much tremendous potential for this to help many of my students with IEPs who have executive functioning issues.

Donnie Piercey (00:20:49):

Oh, a hundred percent, right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:20:51):

Yes, a hundred percent. This can be their personal assistant who, you know, instead of me sitting with them one-on-one and saying, you know, “This is the task you need to do, let’s break it down into these six discrete chunks,” the artificial intelligence can do that for them. And it can do that for teachers too. <laugh>

Donnie Piercey (00:21:09):

Jen, I was just thinking about, how long until we see like the phrase artificial intelligence written onto a student’s IEP? I could see that happening very, very soon.

Jennifer Roberts (00:21:20):

Right? They should be able to use that. And then, also, of course, all of its amazing beneficials for teachers. I had to completely rewrite a unit of my curriculum. I knew what I wanted to do. I had some ideas of things I wanted to put in there. And I resorted to, I went to EducationCopilot.com and typed in my stuff that I had: You know, what standards I wanted to cover, what outcomes I was hoping for mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it generated an eight-week unit for me. And I actually told it then to go back and do it as a 12-week unit so that I’d have more stuff in there to go and cherry-pick to decide what I really wanted to do. But it gave me ideas. It gave me places to start. It saved me an hour of just brainstorming. And I don’t think that was cheating. I still got to go in and decide which ideas were valid. And I still got to … you know, I mean, I’m a teacher. Can I get accused of cheating? I don’t think that’s a thing. It’s—

Eric Cross (00:22:18):

That’s collaborating! It’s collaborating!

Donnie Piercey (00:22:20):

Collaborating! It’s a feature! It’s a feature.

Jennifer Roberts (00:22:22):

It’s Tony Stark talking to Jarvis. You know, they’re figuring it out together.

Donnie Piercey (00:22:26):

Oh, when you use the AI, Jennifer, do you call yours Jarvis? In my class we call him Jeeves. ‘Cause remember Ask Jeeves?

Jennifer Roberts (00:22:33):

I think Eric calls it Jarvis.

Eric Cross (00:22:35):

Yeah. Jarvis is gonna be the AI’s name when, when I can get that fully functioning. There are some things that you had said, I just wanna circle back on. Donnie, Jen — so what I heard was like, best intentions. The part you said about integrity and students wanting to cheat … even the mindset that we go in assuming our students, what they would want to do and assuming best intentions, really kind of frames how you look at this kind of technology. And then Jen, you kind of brought up why students cheat, and realizing that either they don’t feel equipped, or maybe it’s time management, or something else. But most people — and I believe this as an educator — most students want to learn, and they want to be able to perform and achieve. And when they cheat, it’s because they didn’t feel like they could, for whatever reason. Whether it’s it’s outside factors, whether it’s something internal, motivation, whatever it is.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:24):

Or they were very disconnected and just didn’t care.

Eric Cross (00:23:27):

Sure.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:27):

This is just busy work the teacher’s giving me, so I’m gonna give it very little of my time and energy. But I think, yeah, it can be that. But if the kid cares about it, if they wanna learn, they wanna learn, you know?

Eric Cross (00:23:40):

Right.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:40):

This is the day of the internet. Any kid can learn anything they really want to learn. And we see that all the time in our classes. The kid who has zero interest in what I’m teaching in English, but he is an expert coder, and that’s what he wants to spend his time learning. He’s like, “Can I read this C++ book as my independent reading book?” And I’m like, “You know, actually, you can. Go ahead.” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (00:24:01):

Yeah. And for both of you, saying that this makes content more accessible … and I think Donnie, or Jen, you said something about IEPs. I actually put in having it write an IEP to see what would happen. I gave it a prompt for a student’s ability level and I asked it to create a plan. And then I asked it to create a rationale. And it did! And it was good! I went through and vetted it. And right now … you know, a lot of it is funny, ’cause the conversation I’m having with different teachers is kind of like the Wikipedia one. Remember when Wikipedia first got out and everyone was like trying to discourage everybody from using it, because, well, it could be changed by anybody? And now everyone’s like, “Oh, check Wikipedia, and then steal the sources, ’cause they’re already done for you.” Like, the mindset has shifted since then. And I was talking to someone and they said, “Well. …” And I said, “We can use AI, it could be a tutor, these other things. …” And they said, “Yeah, but what happens?” And then insert apocalyptic scenario. Like, what happens if you don’t have access to wifi? And it reminded me of, for some reason, cooking classes. So in the 1700s you probably had to be able to farm to be able to generate your food. Right? Like, you had to get it from somewhere. But if you take a culinary class now, you just go to the grocery store. And someone might say, “Well, but you should know how to farm, ’cause what if there was this worldwide apocalypse and nobody could go to the grocery stores?” <Laugh> And you’re like, “Well, balance of probability though.” You know, it’s like we’ve been really been living in these iterations of life, and I think this next step for some folks … like, we don’t even realize, even like something like bank statements, right? So many folks are paperless. And there’s always a what-if scenario. What if you need it and the internet goes down. But we get so used to to to technology advancing and making our lives different. This kind of seems like that next iteration. And I wanna ask you this question: Are we looking at like the next calculator? The next internet, with this tech? Or do you think it’s too early to say?

Donnie Piercey (00:26:01):

Well, I’ve seen a lot of people compare ChatGPT to a calculator. I’ve seen that pop up on social media. There’s, “Oh well, no, this is like when the calculator was invented. Everyone was up in arms about how ‘that’s not what math students should do.’ Math should be pencil and paper, math should be this.’” However, you can give a kid a calculator and you can give ’em a word problem and they can punch in all the numbers, but they could do the wrong operation or they could put the decimal point in the wrong place, ’cause the student is still the one who’s controlling what’s on the calculator. Where with AI, all you gotta do is just copy it and then paste it into the bot and it’ll spit out whatever the question asked it for. Whether it was, you know, a 500-word rationale or proof for something in geometry, or if it’s analyzing data on a chart, it’ll do all that.

Jennifer Roberts (00:27:00):

Yes. But it’s not that magical. It’s back to what Eric did with the IEP. He put in a prompt and then he knew enough to ask for a rationale and then he knew enough about IEPs to critically read the results he got and make sure they actually worked for what he needed. He had to know all that. He was an expert using it to do an expert thing. My husband’s a computer scientist; he got ChatGPT to help him write an app, and it was a new programming language to him, and he could put in the data and he could ask for things that I would’ve never thought to ask for. But because he knows the language of computer science, he knew what to ask for. And when it gave him results that were bad, he could see that, and he could say, “Yes, but do it again, but without this,” or “make this part more efficient.” He, again, knew what to ask for. So I think the generative AI is, as a partner with humans, a powerful thing. But if the human doesn’t know what they’re doing, yeah. You’re still not gonna get great results.

Donnie Piercey (00:28:03):

<laugh> And I think that’s why I’m coming at this from the elementary school perspective, right? Because in K–5 students are still learning, like, “Hey, where does the decimal point go?” They’re still learning, you know, if you’re dividing by a two-digit number, where does the first digit go, if you go in the old long-division algorithm? And so they’re still acquiring that base-level knowledge that … I don’t know, maybe this is similar to in Jurassic Park when Jeff Goldblum says, “It didn’t take any knowledge to attain,” you know, “they stood on the shoulders of geniuses,” that whole thing. Like they had to acquire the knowledge for themselves, was his whole point. And so that’s why I don’t think it’s exactly the same as the calculator. It is definitely going to change things, in a similar way that the calculator did. But to me it’s just a whole new animal. And I don’t know if it’s going to be like the next internet, Eric — if you’re gonna get little devices that have AI built into it, like a Star Wars kind of thing, like a droid or something that follows you around — all that would be kind of cool, not gonna lie. But whether it’s something that you’ll access through the internet, something that’s built into your TV, that part I don’t know. But I do know that there’s a reason why all of these apps and all these companies are investing so much — not just energy, but time and money into it. Because they’re recognizing. “OK, this really has the potential to change things.” But if used well, and used safely, to change people’s lives for the better.

Eric Cross (00:29:41):

So I definitely hear that you both agree with the statement that if AI ChatGPT was used in the classroom, it could be a force for good. And literacy development. And I wanna shift gears a bit and then come back to the AI. So with that said — and we’re gonna get into some best practices in a minute — in Science Connections right now in this season, we’re making the case for how science can do more in classrooms and in schools. And so I’m I’m curious about what both of you think about the role in science fostering a better future when it comes to AI and education. And this season we’re really talking a lot about literacy. You know, in schools, so often it’s taught in a siloed way. And Donnie, you’re doing multi-subject. Jen, you’re single-subject: English. And we’ve really been trying to make this case for how science can actually support literacy, and these skills that students are trying to develop. So we’re going a little old-school, kind of diving into your content specialty, but maybe even pre-AI, or maybe AI has a component in this. But Don, maybe we’ll start with you. How has science been a way that has been helpful for your own literacy instruction? I know you do a lot of science, because I see your Google Earth stuff and the thing you did with the solar systems back in the day. And I think —.

Donnie Piercey (00:30:54):

Oh my gosh! You remember my <laugh> … wow.

Eric Cross (00:30:58):

That was amazing!

Donnie Piercey (00:31:00):

We haven’t done that since the pandemic. But I had my students go out, and using Google Earth, we built a scale model. Each of the students partnered up and they planned out on Google Earth a scale model of the solar system. They picked an object from around their house and we talked about like, “Don’t pick something bigger than a beach ball, or else, you know, your Neptune’s gonna end up like 10 miles away.” But you know, they just picked like a small ball, like a basketball, soccer ball, something like that. Or football, for international friends. And then we calculated the size of every other planet. And then on Google Earth, using their front lawn as where the sun was, then we went and we calculated where other planets would be, and then we actually drove to those locations and like held up the objects that would represent Neptune, Jupiter, Saturn, and all that. But it was a lot of fun.

Eric Cross (00:31:59):

And is that still accessible? ‘Cause I know you have some websites that you put resources out there.

Donnie Piercey (00:32:03):

Yeah. Yeah, I can … I wanna say on my Resources page — Resources.MrPiercey.com — I’ve got a link on there to a couple of student examples that I can share. And if not, when we get off this call, I’m gonna go on and put them on there <laugh> so people can find it. I’ll even throw on there just the assignment itself. So if you wanted to copy that and do that with your students, you could.

Eric Cross (00:32:27):

Donnie, the reason why I brought that up is because I saw that you had posted that or shared it a long time ago, and I just thought it was the coolest thing that you could totally do with middle-school students or high-school students. Jen, when I became a teacher, you said, “We’re all teachers of literacy.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:32:43):

<laugh> Yeah. I think we forgot to tell them that I was one of your professors.

Eric Cross (00:32:47):

Yes. <Jennifer laughs> One of the people who’ve definitely influenced and shaped my teaching. And that statement has never left my mind: that we’re all teachers of literacy. And I want to ask you, at the high-school level, how can science educators, or how can science — how have you seen it, or how does it, support literacy, when it’s done right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:33:09):

Like I said, I think we’re all teachers of literacy, but I think literacy is bigger than just reading and writing. I don’t think someone is literate if they can’t talk somewhat knowledgeably about what’s happening with climate change. I don’t think someone’s literate if they don’t know what’s going on in the world. And I think so much of what’s going on in the world has to do with science. We’re doing that all the time. If I could teach English just by giving kids articles about science, things to read, that would make my day. Right? We would never read another piece of fiction again. It would all be, you know, what’s happening to the ice sheet in Greenland. My students thrive on reading non-fiction. And then whenever that non-fiction touches on science is even more interesting. And whenever I can get them writing about data, particularly their own data that they collected, I think that’s building those science literacy skills as well. So I think science and English blend together very, very well. I think the literacy aspects of that are fantastic. There are more subject-specific vocabulary words, advanced vocabulary words, in science than any other discipline. And I don’t see why those shouldn’t come up in English as well. You know, my seniors will do a unit at the end of the year on the new space race. Unless I replace it with a unit about generative AI, which I’m seriously considering doing, ’cause I think they really need to learn about bias in AI algorithms and things like that. And I would like to have them read a whole bunch about that stuff. And I wanna give them the open letter that all those CEOs signed that said that AI research should slow down, and make them part of that live conversation about what’s happening in that field. So science comes into that. You know, when we read Into the Wild, we start talking about a whole bunch of scientific concepts. And when it rains in Southern California, we pull up weather maps and look at radar and talk about that and how that works.

Donnie Piercey (00:34:59):

That’s like once every 10 years, Jen? <Laugh>

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:02):

Well, actually, this year it rained a lot. It rained a lot in San Diego. Which is actually very high-interest for them. ‘Cause they wanna know, is it gonna be raining at lunchtime?

Eric Cross (00:35:12):

Jen, you said something … you have your students writing about data?

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:16):

Oh yeah.

Eric Cross (00:35:17):

Can you tell me more about that?

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:19):

So, this is something we’ve done with the ninth grade team for a long time now, is writing about their own data. So it started with a unit about stereotypes and stereotype threat. And they would collect data individually and then they would enter that data into a Google form and then we would give them the spreadsheet of the aggregate data from the whole ninth grade. And then we morphed that unit into one about academic honesty, and they filled out a survey at the beginning of the unit about their feelings about academic honesty and about experiences with academic honesty and cheating and homework and things like that. And then we would do the unit. We’d do all the readings in the unit. And they’d have these “aha” moments about things that were happening at other schools. And then at the end of the unit, we would give them back their own aggregate data and ask them to write about whether or not academic honesty was an issue at our school. And then to support that answer with evidence from their own dataset. So they had that spreadsheet to comb through and figure out, you know, where am I gonna stand on this? We give them the multiple-choice questions we gave them as the graphs, in Google Slides, so that they could write about them and talk about them, too. So yeah, getting kids to write about data. And the the sentence frames we gave them were sentence frames out of, They Say, I Say, from the chapter on writing about science. And <laugh> as they write this stuff, they’re like, “I feel so smart writing this way.” And I’m like, “I know, ’cause you’re writing about big important topics!” Right? And writing about their own data come to think of it is another great way to make an assignment both very personal to them, but also make it ChatGPT-proof, you know, if you’re looking for something that kids can’t just hand to the robot, the robot doesn’t have that data set.

Eric Cross (00:37:08):

Absolutely. And Donnie, at the elementary level, do you, do you make connections between science and literacy? In your class? You talked about with math, definitely with the solar system, but now, I’m curious, what are your newer projects? What have you been working on lately?

Jennifer Roberts (00:37:23):

What’s up now, Donnie?

Eric Cross (00:37:24):

Yeah, what are you doing?

Donnie Piercey (00:37:25):

Oh, man. Well, let me think. I’m just trying to think of some fun projects that we’ve done this year. Science that we can tie in Literacy and also some student creation. Just recently we had a … so I’ve wanted to expose my students to famous scientists that weren’t just white dudes from Europe. So for this year, what I did — and I actually used AI for this — I went into ChatGPT and I asked for 64 famous scientists and it listed them all off. And then I asked it, like, how many of these were white? And I think it said like 61 of them. You know, it had like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and a couple of other … I didn’t know who they were. So I’m like, “All right, so we need to make this more diverse and make this more equitable.” ‘Cause you know, with the student population in my classroom, try to find equal representation to make sure they can see themselves in some of these scientists. So, eventually got it narrowed down to where I had about 64 scientists. Half are women, half are men from all continents except Antarctica. I assigned these scientists to my students. Some got two; some got three. And their assignment was to go and one, do some individual research on this person, find out what they were famous for, what they were most well-known for, turn it actually into a persuasive piece, where I said, “Hey, you’re gonna have one slide.” And I’ll tell you why I gave him one slide in a minute. On that one slide, you’ve gotta convince the person who sees it that this scientist is the most important scientist since the dawn of creation. I said, “You could use images, text — I don’t care if they were famous for something that you didn’t even understand what it was. It’s a persuasive piece. You’re 10. Go all out. Add gifs, do that whole thing.

Eric Cross (00:39:21):

This is awesome.

Jennifer Roberts (00:39:21):

I wanna do this project.

Donnie Piercey (00:39:23):

And if you picked up on the number 64, and I did this in March, so what we did was throughout the weeks of March Madness of the women’s and men’s NCAA tournament, whenever a game was going on, we had another round of voting. I just paired ’em up. I was gonna like seed them, like 1 to 64 — that’s just way too much work for me <laugh>. So I just kind of did random kind of thing. But all the students had to do — they just saw the slides side-by-side, and the only question they had was, “Based on what you see here, who is the most important scientist? This person or this person?” And it eventually came down to Carl Sagan going up against Marie Curie.

Eric Cross (00:40:04):

OK, that’s a good matchup.

Donnie Piercey (00:40:06):

Yeah, well, the Marie Curie slide, they just liked the radium piece. So they added like some green glowing gifs. And I said, “Guys, it doesn’t always grow glow green.” But whatever. Anyway, eventually Carl Sagan, in case you wanted to know, according to the 10-year-olds in my classroom, is the most important scientist in the history of the world. So I don’t know if I agree with that per se — I think maybe Newton or somebody else might have had something else to say about it — but fun assignment. It was a unique way to expose my students to a bunch of ideas. I remember the student that I assigned Newton, the only thing that that she knew about Isaac Newton was “Didn’t he get hit in the head with an apple?” And I said, “Well, not exactly, I think you might have read or maybe seen too many like old-school cartoons or whatever.” But she ended up doing some research. She’s like, “Oh, I’ve heard of that before! That equal and opposite reaction thing.” Didn’t know what it meant. I had another student that just got really … you know, if you’ve ever been on one of those YouTube kicks where it’s just, you go like nine levels deep onto like, “What does this theorem mean?” Student sits in back of my classroom, I walked by one day and he’s just watching something on like the fifth dimension and what it might be. And I said, “Oh, your scientist got you started on that.” So definitely was a lot of fun. Unique way to combine reading, writing, but also expose my students to some ideas. And we’re definitely gonna do it again. I’ve actually done this assignment before. I picked 64 random elements on the periodic table. But their only slide that they have to make is “What’s your element? What is it used for? And then, why is this the most important element since the dawn of creation?” <Laugh> And, you know, there’s always that student that gets hydrogen. They’re just like “Sweet!” Right? They get excited about that one. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:41:59):

Explosions.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:00):

Yeah. But then, for that kid who likes a challenge, or that student with the “gifted” label, you give them, like, einsteinium or palladium. Some of the more challenging ones. And they go all out with this. I didn’t use AI for that one, but it was kind of fun, and I figured it’d be neat to share an idea that another teacher could try.

Eric Cross (00:42:20):

Well you probably have at least two teachers right now that are gonna go and try that. And we’re both looking at you. So.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:24):

Go for it.

Eric Cross (00:42:25):

Thanks for that idea. I’m imagining my students coming in with jerseys with “neon.”

Donnie Piercey (00:42:29):

Oh yeah. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:42:30):

“Neon” on it. Just all ’80s out.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:33):

The game behind it, too, is you tell kids — again, this is just so the 10-year-olds in my class don’t get their feelings hurt — but I say, “Hey, and if your element gets knocked out, you just have to start cheering for whoever beats you in the tournament.” So by the end, you kind of got half the class cheering for one and half the class cheering for whatever.

Jennifer Roberts (00:42:53):

So the only thing I got outta that whole story that I’ve got for you is, as a child I met Carl Sagan. That’s all I got.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:02):

For real?

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:02):

For real.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:03):

So did he talk with that cadence and tone?

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:06):

Yes.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:06):

Like in real life? Wow.

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:07):

Yes. My father was one of the cinematographers on the original Cosmos. And I got to go to the set a few times.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:14):

That’s incredible!

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:15):

I did not appreciate what I was seeing as a child. But as an adult, I’m like, “That was cool. I was there.”

Donnie Piercey (00:43:20):

“You can see my shadow off in the distance.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:23):

I mean, maybe that’s part of why I’ve always had an interest in science. I’ve always had fantastic science teachers. Every science teacher I ever had was amazing.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:31):

I credit mine to Mr. Wizard. I don’t know if you ever watched Mr. Wizard and Beakman’s World?

Eric Cross (00:43:35):

I remember Mr. Wizard. Yep. Yep. I definitely remember Mr. Wizard, Beakman’s World, all those. That was on Nickelodeon back in the day. I had to get up early to watch that one. But there’s a YouTube video—

Donnie Piercey (00:43:44):

Six am!

Eric Cross (00:43:44):

<laugh> It was! It was super-early! But there was one, Don, I don’t know if you’ve seen this on YouTube, but it said “Mr. Wizard Is Mean,” and it’s just clips of when he’s—

Donnie Piercey (00:43:56):

Yelling at kids!

Eric Cross (00:43:56):

Chastising. Or being really direct. It’s just one after another.

Donnie Piercey (00:44:02):

He always asked ’em a question and if the kid, you know, didn’t answer it right, he’d be like, “Well, you’re not right, but you’re wrong.” You know, whatever. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (00:44:14):

I have to make sure I’m not subconsciously saying Mr. Wizard quotes when I’m talking in the classroom, when things are happening. But yeah, that video’s hilarious. So I just want to bring us back to AI, and ask this question: Do you think science has a special role to play when it comes to teaching kids about AI responsibly? Does science have a special role in that?

Jennifer Roberts (00:44:36):

I think the responsible piece of AI I wanna teach my students about is the part about the bias in the algorithms and the bias in the training. And I want them to understand how it works, well enough to make informed decisions about how it impacts their lives.

Donnie Piercey (00:44:56):

Hmm.

Jennifer Roberts (00:44:57):

Because I do have concerns about a tool that was trained on the internet. And the answers it gives you is the average of the internet. And do we trust the internet? And the answer from kids is always, “Well sorta, no.” <Laugh> So I want them to understand the social science behind that.

Donnie Piercey (00:45:18):

Yeah. And just along that same point, having the students recognize that just because, you know, you copy-and-paste a question in, the answer it spits out might not always be correct. So, teaching them that just like you would with a source that you find about a topic that you’re researching, you’ve gotta fact-check.

Jennifer Roberts (00:45:44):

It’s just like being a good scientist. A good scientist wouldn’t always accept a single result or the first result. You know, you would look at multiple angles. You would try things different ways. Last week I took the article my seniors were reading about victim compensation after 9-11, and in front of them, I gave ChatGPT, I said, “Are you familiar with this article by Amanda Ripley? And ChatGPT came back and said, “Oh yes, this was written in the Atlantic in 2020 and it’s about these things, blah, blah blah.” And my students looked at that and went, “That’s not the article we read.” And I said, “I know. It got it wrong. That’s amazing!” Yeah. And I was so happy that it got it wrong! ‘Cause I wanted them to see that happen.

Donnie Piercey (00:46:21):

And I guess one of the big science questions there, or one of the big science components there, is that idea of inquiry. Right? It’s almost like you have to teach students how to ask those deep questions about what AI spits out.

Eric Cross (00:46:35):

All of those tips are great. And it leads me to this last question I want to ask. New teachers that are out there — it actually doesn’t even matter; new teachers, experienced teachers, all of us are kind of new at different levels of this race. We’re all kind of starting it together. I mean, it hit mainstream. We’re all getting exposed to it. You all really dive into it. When tech comes out, I know you two really like, “OK, how can we use this to transform education and do awesome things for kids?”

Donnie Piercey (00:47:04):

Usually, when new tech comes out, “How can this make my life easier?” is usually the question. Yeah.

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:09):

“How can I save myself time with this?” Yes.

Donnie Piercey (00:47:11):

“How can this result in me watching more TV and you know, less grading,” sometimes.

Eric Cross (00:47:16):

And I start there like you, but then I end up more time that I fill with another project. And I need to learn how to stop doing that. I’m like, “Oh! I got more free time! … to go take on this other task.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:28):

Oh, all of my tech adoption is driven by “how can I work less?”

Eric Cross (00:47:32):

So you’re you’re talking to a new teacher, teacher’s getting exposed to this, they’re starting the school year or they’re just getting their feet wet with it. What advice would you give them about AI, incorporated into content or even just best practices? Where you’re at right now in your own journey, and someone’s asking you about it —what would you share with ’em? And Jen, I want to start with you.

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:53):

So, the first thing I did is I was in the middle of grading, you know, 62 essays from my seniors about Into the Wild, when ChatGPT became a thing last November. And I wanted to see what would happen. So the first thing I did was take the prompt that I had given my students and gave it to ChatGPT, ’cause I had just graded a whole bunch of those essays and my brain was very attuned to what my rubric was doing and what I was expecting as the outcome. So I could take what ChatGPT gave me as that quote unquote “essay” and evaluate it critically. And I was ready to do that. So my first advice is take something you’re already asking students to do and ask ChatGPT to do the same thing. So that as you look at the student results, you can compare that to what ChatGPTgives you. If what you’re finding is that ChatGPT can generate something that would earn a decent grade from you, you might need to change that assignment. And it doesn’t need to be a big change, but it might need a tweak or something, so that it, it does rely on the student voice, the students to do something more personal. I’m finding very helpful in my classroom is having my kids do projects where they are recording themselves on — I like Flip. So they’re writing a scene together and they’re having to record the scene together. And I’m emphasizing more of the speaking roles than the writing roles necessarily. So yes, first, take something you’re already doing, paste in to ChatGPT, see what the results are, see how that fits with what your students are doing, and then do that for every assignment you give and just sort of see what comes out of that, and see which assignments are failing and which assignments are working. ‘Cause that’s gonna give you a sense, when you do see one of those results from your students, you’ll be able to recognize it. But it’ll also help you tweak your assignments and decide, “How can I make this a little more original or a little bit more authentic for my students?” And if the robot, if the AI, can’t generate a response, what could the AI do that would be helpful to your students? Would be my next question. So can you use the AI to help them generate an outline? Can you use the AI to help them generate a list of steps to help them get started? And when you’re comfortable enough doing that by yourself, then don’t be afraid to open it in front of your class. If it’s not blocked at your school site, which I hope it’s not. Because I think the advantage goes to kids who have access to this in the long run, or at least see what it is and know what it is. Right? Because if a kid graduates from school without knowing that AI exists, they’re not gonna be prepared for what they face out in the world. So give them a chance to see you using it. Model effectively using it. I have a blog post about that. I just wrote it. LitAndTech.com. You can check that out. “Introducing 9th graders to ChatGPT.” How it went, right? There’s a chart there you can have. It’s my very first draft of this, but it seems to be very popular. So, you know, show students how it can be used as their mentor. If I can’t come read your paragraph because I have 36 kids in my classroom and I cannot stop and read everybody’s first paragraph, can you, if you want to, give your first paragraph to ChatGPT and ask for advice? And will that advice be helpful to you? So showing students how it can be used responsibly is, I think, something every teacher should be doing right now. And don’t hold back just because you’re afraid you’re gonna be teaching them what this is. They know what this is. Right?

Donnie Piercey (00:51:13):

They know what it is.

Jennifer Roberts (00:51:13):

Especially if you teach high school. They know what it is. I’ve had parents thank me for showing them how to use it responsibly. You know, this can actually be a really useful tool, but if you’re trying to make it do your work for you, it will probably fail you. If you’re trying to use it to help you do your work, it will probably be helpful. Sort of the way I’m breaking it down for them at this point. You want the great metaphor? The great metaphor is if you build a robot and send it to the top of a mountain, did you climb that mountain? No. If you build a robot and ask it to help you get to the top of the mountain, and you and the robot go together, did you climb that mountain? Yes.

Eric Cross (00:51:53):

I like that. I’m thinking through this. I’m processing that now.

Donnie Piercey (00:51:57):

Me too.

Eric Cross (00:51:59):

Yeah. I just imagine a robot holding my hand climbing Mount Everest and I’m like, “Yeah, I did it.”

Donnie Piercey (00:52:04):

If I got a robot though, like I would have to dress it like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator 2. Like I would just have to.

Eric Cross (00:52:10):

Of course.

Donnie Piercey (00:52:10):

Of course.

Eric Cross (00:52:13):

Donnie, same question. Advice. Teachers getting immersed into it. Tips. What would you say?

Donnie Piercey (00:52:20):

So, I would definitely agree with everything that Jen said. Just, if anything else, to familiarize yourself with it. Almost like pretend like it’s a student in your classroom and it’s answering questions, just so that way you can see what it can do. And you’re kind of training yourself, like, “Oh, well, if I ever need examples, exemplars.” If you’re in a writing piece and you don’t wanna sit there and write out four different types of student responses — you know, advanced writer, beginning writer, whatever — great way to to do that is you just—

Jennifer Roberts (00:52:48):

Oh yeah. We did that.

Donnie Piercey (00:52:48):

—copy the prompt in and give a beautifully written piece that a fifth grader would be impressed with. Boom. It’ll do it for you. In my classroom, the way that I approach it is I kinda look at AI as almost like this butler that I don’t have to pay. That if I need it to do something for me, it’s just bookmarked. I can click it. And I mean, sometimes I just talk to it like it’s a person. And it’s almost like, in the chat window, I’m just rambling at it, what I’m trying to do. And it’s almost like I’m talking to a coworker, and I’m trying to hedge out some ideas for a lesson. Simple example: For a science lesson, if you’re trying to come up with … let’s say you’re a fifth-grade — or, sorry, I teach fifth grade. Say you’re a seventh-grade science teacher. And you’re trying to teach the students in your class about Newton’s third law of motion. You know, every action [has an ] equal and opposite reaction. Look around your room. See what you have. Maybe look around and you’re like, “All right, I got a whiteboard, microscope, I’ve got magnets, a cylinder. …” And you just copy all this stuff into ChatGPT. Say, like, “Hey, I have all of these items. Cotton balls, peanut butter, whatever.” And say, “I’m trying to teach students Newton’s third law of motion. Give me some ideas of some ways I could teach it using some of these materials.” And it’ll do it! It’ll give you like five to 10 ideas!

Jennifer Roberts (00:54:15):

And then tell it what your students are into. Like, my students are really into basketball. Can you work that into this lesson?

Donnie Piercey (00:54:21):

Yeah! They’re into the Avengers! Hey, find some way to tie Spider-Man into this. You know, that was a pun that didn’t go so well. But, you know <laugh> figure out some way that you could incorporate this and it’ll do it. And Eric, like you said, it won’t be perfect. Right? But if anything else, if you’re a starting teacher and you’re trying to brainstorm ideas — try it.

Eric Cross (00:54:44):

And Donnie, as you were saying that, I was thinking — first, I imagined Spider-Man shooting cotton balls with peanut butter all over them — and then my mind went to having students have these items, like you were saying. And then they create labs, working alongside AI. To do inquiry. To create a lab about something, and then going and performing and collecting data. OK, that’s — now I wanna go do that tomorrow!

Donnie Piercey (00:55:10):

Listen, it is so easy to do. If you have an extra computer in your classroom. … We were talking about Jarvis and Iron Man and Tony Stark earlier. Make a new chat in ChatGPT. Tell it, “I want you to pretend that you are Tony Stark. Only answer questions as if you are Tony Stark.” Or “Pretend you’re Jarvis.” Whatever. “Stay in character the whole time. I’m going to have sixth grade students come up to you and ask you questions about science or forces of nature, and only answer questions like you’re Iron Man.” And guess what? You keep that station in your classroom. Students are working on a project — you know, in elementary school, a lot of times we’ll have that, “ask three before me” — you’re supposed to ask three friends before you go and bug the teacher. Well, maybe one of those “three before me” can be that little computer station, where they go up and ask Tony Stark a question, and then it answers them as Jarvis or Iron Man. I mean, we’re really just scratching the surface with all this AI stuff. And as more and more companies and more and more creatives are gonna start to realize everything that it can do, we’re gonna start to see it more and more. And hopefully we as teachers can really figure out how to use this tool to, of course, help students, but also help them be creative and explore and learn on their own.

Eric Cross (00:56:35):

That’s amazing. And just both of you are just dropping gems right now. And I wanna wrap up by saying — and I’ve said this before on earlier podcasts I’ve done — but at this phase in my life, the people that I’m the biggest fans of are teachers. And it’s true. I don’t mean that in a cliche way. When I watch celebrities and things like that, when I watch professional sports, that doesn’t fill me the way it used to when I was a kid. At this point, as a professional, I get inspired by other educators who are just doing awesome things. And when I think about educators who are doing that, you two are on that list of people that make me better. And when I get better, I can do better things for my kids. And so, one, I want to thank you for staying in the classroom and continue to support students. They’re so lucky to have you both. The second thing I wanted to say is, Jen, I wanna start with you. Where can people — and I know we said at the beginning — but where can people find the stuff that you put out? You got blogs, your social, your book.

Jennifer Roberts (00:57:28):

I got lots of social. Twitter, I’m JenRoberts1 on Twitter. And then my blog is LitAndTech.com. And then I’m on lots of the new social too, the Mastodons, the Spoutables, the Posts — those kinds of things — as just Jen Roberts, because I got in early and I got my real name without a 1. And there was some other one I’m on recently that I’ve forgotten about. But there’s lots of ’em. They’re fun. And I’m Jen Roberts. You can find me there.

Donnie Piercey (00:57:56):

And I’m SergeantPepperD on AOL, if anyone’s interested.

Eric Cross (00:58:00):

If you wanna hit Donnie up on AIM. <Laugh>

Donnie Piercey (00:58:03):

SergeantPepperD.

Jennifer Roberts (00:58:04):

You know, speaking of rock stars and people who do amazing things, I did write a blog post about using ChatGPT in the classroom, but I hear Donnie wrote a whole book.

Eric Cross (00:58:13):

Oh yeah. So, Donnie! Donnie, that’s a great segue. Thanks Jen. Donnie, how do people find out more? And can you tell us about this book you wrote, that’s coming out in the summer?

Donnie Piercey (00:58:22):

Yeah, so the book I wrote is called 50 Strategies for Integrating AI Into the Classroom. It’s published by Teacher Created Materials. They reached out to me. They had seen some of the stuff that I was doing, not just with ChatGPT, but also some image-generating AI stuff. You know, I got featured on Good Morning America, which was kind of cool. And they saw that and they said, ‘Hey, that looks really neat.” Reached out to me and asked me to write a book. And the idea behind the book, that launches this summer, it’s just 50 ideas, 50 prompts, different things that, as a classroom teacher, that you can do. So, you know, I think there’s so many AI books that are out there now. A lot of them are big ideas, which I think are important. Definitely important discussions that need to be, have around, the ethics of AI. What’s the role that AI should play in the classroom. But I just wanted to write a book, kind of like the discussion that, that Jen and I were just having, which is like, “Can we just share a whole bunch of ideas, different things that we could try with our students?” So definitely check it out. And I appreciate you giving me a shout-out too. That was cool, Eric. Thank you.

Eric Cross (00:59:35):

Of course. Definitely. And Donnie, your Twitter is again. …

Donnie Piercey (00:59:39):

Oh, @MrPiercey, M R P I E R C E Y.

Eric Cross (00:59:44):

Follow Donnie. Follow Jen. Tons of stuff on there. Both of you, thank you so much. For your time, for talking about students and how we can take care of them, science, literacy, AI. I hope we can talk about this again. I feel like even if in just six months, we might be saying different things. In a year, the landscape might completely change. And that makes it really fun. But thank you both for being on the show.

Jennifer Roberts (01:00:04):

Thank you for having us, Eric.

Donnie Piercey (01:00:05):

Thank you so much, Eric. We appreciate it, bud.

Eric Cross (01:00:10):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Jen Roberts and Donnie Piercey. Jen Roberts is a veteran English teacher at San Diego’s Point Loma High School and author of the book Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning. You can keep up with her at LitAndTech.com. And Donnie Piercey is a fifth-grade teacher from Lexington, Kentucky. He hosts the podcast Teachers Passing Notes. Stay up-to-date with him at Resources.MrPiercey.com. And let us know what you think of this episode in our Facebook discussion group, Science Connections: The Community. Make sure you don’t miss any new episodes of Science Connections by subscribing to the show, wherever you get podcasts. And as always, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more people and AI robots find the show. You can find more information on all of Amplify’s shows on our podcast hub, Amplify.com/hub. Thanks again for listening.

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What Jennifer Roberts says about science

“If I’m not teaching my students how to use this, then they’re not going to turn into the adults we need them to be… If we’re not at least trying to think about what our future world is going to look like, then we’re not serving our students well.”

– Jennifer Roberts

High School English Teacher

Meet the guests

Jen Roberts is a Nationally Board Certified high school English teacher with 25+ years of experience teaching Social Science and English Language Arts in grades 7-12. She has had 1:1 laptops for her students since 2008 and is the co-author of Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning. A Google for Education Certified Innovator since 2011, Jen was named the CUE Outstanding Educator in 2022. Her interests include literacy instruction, standards based grading, and leveraging Google tools to make her teaching more efficient and effective.

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Donnie Piercey, the 2021 Kentucky Teacher of the Year, is a fifth-grade teacher in Lexington, Kentucky.  With a passion for utilizing technology to promote student inquiry, learning, and engagement, he has been teaching since 2007. In addition to being in the classroom, he runs a podcast, Teachers Passing Notes that is produced by the Peabody Award winning GZMShows, and holds several recognitions, including a National Geographic Fellowship to Antarctica in 2018. His most recent work in Artificial Intelligence has not gone unnoticed, earning him multiple appearances on Good Morning America, the Associated Press, and PBS. His upcoming book, “50 Strategies for Integrating AI in the Classroom” published by Teacher Created Materials, is written for educators looking for practical classroom approaches to using AI. All told, Donnie has been invited to keynote and present at schools in thirty-three states and on five continents.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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Winter Wrap-Up 03: Ideas to build math fluency

Promotional graphic for "Math Teacher Lounge" episode featuring Valerie Henry, Ed.D., on ideas to build math fluency, with a photo of Valerie Henry in the bottom right corner.

Join us for the third episode in our Winter Wrap-Up! In this episode from season 3 of Math Teacher Lounge: The Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Valerie Henry to talk about math fluency and what that means for students. Listen as we dig into the research, hear Val’s three-part definition of fluency, and explore her five principles for developing it.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:03)

Hey folks. Welcome back. This is Math Teacher Lounge, and I am one of your hosts, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I’m your other host, Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Hi, Dan.

Dan Meyer (00:11):

Hey, great to see you. We have a big one this week to chat about and some fantastic guests. We are chatting about fluency, which is the sort of word and concept that I feel like people have very, very non-neutral associations with it. A lot of them are very negative, for a lot of people.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:26):

I saw you frown a little. What’s up with that, Dan? You kind of, like, shrank.

Dan Meyer (00:30):

I have strong feelings about it. You know, there’s lots of ways that people go about helping people become fluent in mathematics. And a lot of them are harmful for students, and ineffective. And it got me thinking about fluency as it exists outside of the world of mathematics, where we have a lot of very clear images of it. We’re getting fluent in things all the time. Like, as humans. Human development is the story of fluency. And I just was wondering….Bethany, would you describe yourself as fluent at something outside of the world of mathematics? What is that? How’d you get fluent at it? What was the process?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:05):

Hmm, I think I’m a pretty fluent reader. I read all the time. I’m a happier person if I’ve read that day. I once saw this poster in a classroom; it said “10 Ways to Become a Better Reader: Read, Read, Read, Read, Read…you know, 10 times. Get it? Reading? You get better at reading by reading! So I would say reading. And it’s been kind of cool—I have a one-year-old who, it’s been really exciting slash overwhelmingly anxiety-producing to see him get very fluent with walking slash running, ’cause he’s getting faster every day. And it’s kind of fun. When I think of what’s something somebody’s trying to get fluent with…walking! He’s trying to be more fluid. He’s practicing transitions. He doesn’t wanna hold my hand while he traverses rocky terrain. He’s getting better at it. He’s practicing. What about you? What’s something…?

Dan Meyer (02:08):

I think about driving a lot. I’m a very fluent driver and I think a lot about when I was first a driver, you know? And how l have my hands on 10 and 2, vice grip, and do not talk to me; do not ask me anything; don’t ask me my NAME. I need to focus so hard. And then a year later, you know, I’m driving with one hand, smash the turn signal, take a sip off of whatever, change the CD. And then it’s no big deal.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):

Wait, did you pass the first time? Your test?

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Yeah, I don’t like to brag about it. <laugh> But I do all the time. <laugh> But I got a hundred on my driving test. I don’t care who knows it. And I hope it’s everybody. But I guess all of this is just to say there are areas of life where fluency feels natural, with the case of walking. There’s areas of life where fluency feels motivating, with like driving—I wanna be able to switch the CD out or whatever. And there’s areas where fluency feels terrifying and hard to come by, like mathematics, sometimes. So we have a set of guests here. Our first guest will help us figure out what do we mean by fluency? And what’s the research say about what fluency is and how students develop it in mathematics? And then our other guests will help us think about what it looks like in practice in the classroom. What are some novel, new ways to work on fluency? So first up we have Val Henry, Dr. Val Henry.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:32):

So we knew we needed help with the fluency definition, because when we think about it, it’s kind of big, right? And we wanted to look at what research about fluency really says. So we called on Valerie Henry. Val is a nationally board-certified teacher, taught middle school for 17 years, and since 2002 has worked with undergraduates graduates, credential candidates as a lecturer at the University of California, Irvine, one of my alma maters. So after doing her dissertation on addition and subtraction fluency in first grade, Val created a project to study ways to build addition and subtraction and multiplication and division fluency while also developing number sense in algebraic thinking. And the pilot grew and grew over the last 18 years into a powerful daily mini-lesson approach to facts fluency called FactsWise. And when we thought of fluency, the first person I thought of was Val. Welcome, Val Henry, to the Lounge! I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome.

Valerie Henry (04:36):

Thanks, Bethany. And thanks to you, Dan. It’s great to be here today.

Dan Meyer (04:41):

Great to have you; help yourself to whatever you find in the fridge. The names that people write down on those things in the bags are just recommendations. It’s potluck-style here. I’m curious, Val, if you’re, like, on an airplane, someone asks you what you do, and you say you study fluency…what is the layperson’s definition of what does it mean to be fluent in mathematics? And if you can give a brief tour through what the research says about what works and what doesn’t that would really help us orient our conversation here.

Valerie Henry (05:12):

The first thing I have to do when I talk to somebody on a plane is define the idea of fluency. And I often use an example of tying your shoelaces. Because that works with first graders as well as adults. This idea that when we first start trying to put our shoes on and get those shoelaces tied, somebody tries to, first of all, just do it for us. But then of course maybe tries to teach us the bunny-ears approach. And we struggle and struggle as little kids and eventually either the bunny-ears approach or something else starts to work for us. But we still have to pay attention to it. We have to think hard and it’s not easy. And then over time we get to the point where we basically don’t even think about it. When I tie my shoes in the morning. I’m not thinking about right-over-left and left-over-right and all of those things. I just do it. And so that’s a good, easy example of becoming fluent with something. I think what we’re talking about today though, is the basics, the adding and subtracting that we hope kids are going to have mastered maybe by second grade, and the multiplication and division facts that we wanna maybe have mastered by third, maybe fourth grade. So now what does that mean to become fluent with those basics? I have a three-part definition that seems to match up really nicely with the common core approach to fluency. Which is, first of all, we want the answers to be correct. And then second, we want the answers to be easy to know. And so what does that mean? Well, to me, it means without needing to count,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:12):

You mean without having to kind of muscle through it? Or say more about you mean.

Valerie Henry (07:16):

Well, I guess what I mean is that when you watch a young child try and solve something even as simple as two plus three, they might put up two fingers and then go 3, 4, 5 with three more fingers winding up on their hand, one or the other of their hands. While they’re doing that, they don’t really have a sense of whether even their answer is right or not, quite often. Especially when you get to the larger adding and subtracting problems, you can see a lot of errors happening as they’re trying to count. And it’s taking up cognitive energy to do that counting process, especially as you get to the larger quantities. So my definition of fluency now is “getting it right without needing to do that hard work like counting.” Now, some people might say, well, we just want them to have ’em memorized. But in my research, I’ve learned that a lot of very fluid adults don’t always have every fact memorized. In fact, if you ask a room full of adults, what’s seven plus nine, you might learn that they can all get it correct quickly, quickly…but they don’t all have it memorized. And so when you ask them, “How did you get that?” Many of them will say, “Well, I just gave one from the 7 to the 9 and I know that 10 plus 6 is 16.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:53):

That’s such an important distinction. My brain literally just did that actually!

Valerie Henry (08:58):

<laugh> Right? <laugh> But you’re fluid with it, because it doesn’t take you much cognitive energy at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:05):

Right.

Valerie Henry (09:07):

So now we have “correct without needing to put that cognitive energy,” which usually means that you’re counting. And then the third thing is “relatively quickly,” so that you’re not spending 15 seconds trying to figure it out. Even that part-whole strategy approach can be done really quickly, almost instantaneously. Or it can take a long time. So if a student can get the answer correct within, you know, three or four seconds— is I’m pretty generous—I figure that they’re pretty darn fluent with that fact. So that’s my three-part definition of these basics, fluency.

Dan Meyer (09:55):

I love the distinction between getting it correct and getting it quick. It’s possible to be quick with wrong answers. It’s possible to be like, “Those are separate components there.” And I echo Bethany’s appreciation for this third option in between knowing it instantaneously through memorization and muscling through it. But there’s like a continuum there of how much energy it took you to come up with it that all feels extremely helpful.

Valerie Henry (10:21):

And you know, one of the things that I’ve noticed is that when kids are pressured to come up with those instantaneous answers, they often default to guessing and get it wrong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:30):

Mm, yeah.

Valerie Henry (10:30):

So that’s one of the things that I’ve learned is that as we’re trying to help students develop fluency, it’s important to start with building their conceptual understanding of what it means to do, you know, 3 times 9 and what the correct answer is, maybe using manipulatives or representations of some sort. Not skip-counting! I really have found that skip-counting just perpetuates itself in many students’ minds and that they never stop skip-counting, which means they’re putting in not very much mental energy if it’s 2 times 3 but a ton of mental energy if it’s 7 times 8. Because frankly, it’s really hard to skip count by sevens. And by eights.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:18):

I can get to 14 and then I’m like, wait, wait, what was next? Right? No, no, no…21! What do you feel are some misconceptions that maybe teachers, maybe parents have about fluency in math?

Valerie Henry (11:30):

I think maybe one of the first ones is that if students count or skip-count, their answers repetitively over and over and over and over, that they’re bound to memorize them. And the study that I did back in 2004, I actually had a school that had decided that they were going to do time tests with their students every day, all year. And that undoubtedly by the end of the year, those students would be fluent.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:06):

And to clarify by time test, you mean like, sit down, pencil, paper, ready, go, worksheet kind of thing.

Valerie Henry (12:15):

Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:16):

Some of us might remember quite vividly.

Valerie Henry (12:18):

<laugh> Very vividly. And you know, you have to get it done within a certain amount of time. So they made it fun for the students. Apparently the students enjoyed it. I was a little leery about that, but in the end, when I went and checked on the students and I did one-on-one assessments with half of the students in every class that were randomly selected so that I could get a sense of where they were with their fluency—and these were first graders—they basically had nothing memorized. They were simply counting as fast as they possibly could. And, you know, mostly getting the right answers. But they had not memorized. So that’s one of the myths, I think, is that repetitive practice of counting gets you to memorization.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:10):

If I put it in front of you enough times, you’ll become fluent.

Valerie Henry (13:14):

Right, right. Now these students didn’t really get any instruction, any help learning these. They just simply tested over and over and over. So that’s another thing that I think is a misconception. It’s that if we test students, but don’t really teach them fluency, then they’re going to become fluent. If we just test them every Friday or that kind of thing. And that they’ll learn them at home. But really what that means is a few lucky kids who have parents who have the time and the energy and the background to know how to help will take that job on at home. Not that many students are really that fortunate.

Dan Meyer (14:01):

It’s almost like the traditional approach, or the approach you’re describing, confuses process and product. It says, “Well, the product is that eventually fluent students will be able to do something like this, see these problems and answer them, answer them quickly,” and says, “Well, that must be the process then as well; let’s give them that products a whole lot.” But as I hear you describe fluency with bunny ears on shoelaces, there’s these images and approaches and techniques that require a very active teacher presence to support the development of it. That’s just kind of interesting to me.

Valerie Henry (14:35):

My initial project, the pilot project that I tried, was to simply ask teachers to follow five key principles. And the first one was to do something in the classroom every day for—I told them, even if you’ve only got five or 10 minutes, work on fluency for five or 10 minutes a day, and let’s see what happens. So that was one key element was just to teach it and to give students opportunities to get what the research calls for when you’re trying to memorize, which is actually immediate feedback. When I talk about immediate feedback with my student teachers, I say, “I’m talking about within one or two seconds of trying a problem, and then sort of immediately knowing, getting feedback of whether you got the answer right or not so that your brain can kind of gain that confidence. ‘Oh, not only did I come up with an answer, but somebody’s telling me it’s the correct answer.’”

Dan Meyer (15:38):

There’s a lot of apps now in the digital world that offer students questions about arithmetic or other kinds of mathematical concepts and give immediate feedback of a sort: the feedback of “You’re right; you’re wrong” sort. Is that effective fluency development, in your view?

Valerie Henry (15:57):

I haven’t heard and I haven’t seen them being super-effective. The ways I think about this are “Immediate feedback isn’t the only thing we need.” Probably one of the biggest things that we need is for students to develop strategies. And this is one of the other things I’ve learned from international research, from countries that do have students who become very fluent very early, is that they don’t shoot straight for memorization, but they go through this process of taking students from doing some counting and then quickly moving them to trying to use logic. So, “Hey, you really are confident that 2 + 2 is 4; so now let’s use that to think about 2 + 3.” Actually, as an algebra teacher, I would much rather have students that have a combination of memorization and these strategies, than students who’ve only memorized. Isn’t that interesting that my most successful algebra students were good strategy thinkers. Not just good memorizers.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:09):

So you mentioned there were five that kind of helped root this idea in like, “What can teachers do? What is the best thing that teachers can do to support with fact fluency?” So, everyday was key.

Valerie Henry (17:22):

Then the next principle that I really focus on is switching immediately to the connected subtractions so that students—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:33):

Not waiting until you’ve gotten all the way through addition. But making “Ooh!”

Valerie Henry (17:38):

Totally. And I didn’t do that the first year. And when we looked at the results of the assessments at the end of the year, we realized that our students were so much weaker in subtraction than addition. So the following pilot year, we tried this other approach of doing subtraction right after the students had developed some fluency with that small chunk of addition. And we got such better subtraction results.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:11):

What are the other principles?

Valerie Henry (18:13):

The biggest one is to use these strategies. So the strategies makes the third. And then the fourth I would say is to go from concrete to representational to abstract.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:27):

Don’t put away those manipulatives. Don’t put away those tools.

Valerie Henry (18:31):

Oh, so important to come back to them for multiplication and division. And my fifth principle is to wait on assessment. To use it as true assessment, but not race to start testing before students have had a chance to go through this three-phase process. Which is conceptual understanding with manipulatives; building strategies, usually with representations; and then working on building some speed until it’s just that natural fluency.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:07):

I wanna say thank you so much for offering your really learned perspective, because you have not only done the research, but seen it in action and seen how shifting our notions of fluency and what fluency can be and what a powerful foundation it can be for all mathematicians. Really, that shift is so powerful. And I appreciate you sharing it with our listeners and with us. So we’re so excited that we got to talk with you today, Val—

Dan Meyer (19:35):

Thank you, Dr. Henry.

Valerie Henry (19:37):

You’re welcome!

Dan Meyer (19:41):

With us now we have Graham Fletcher and Tracy Zager, a couple of people who understand fluency at a very deep and classroom level. I wanna introduce them and get their perspective on what we’re trying to solve here with fluency. So Graham Fletcher has served in education in a lot of different roles: as a classroom teacher, math coach, math specialist, and he’s continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary math. He’s the author, along with Tracy, of Building Fact Fluency, a fluency kit we’ll talk about, and openly shares so much of his wisdom and resources at gfletchy.com. Tracy Johnson Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of this toolkit, Building Fact Fluency, and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers, including, yours truly. Thank you for all that insight, Tracy, and support on the book.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:49):

Dan and I were talking at the beginning of the episode about things we feel like, “Hey, I’m fluent in that. I’m fluent in that.”

Dan Meyer (20:55):

Just very curious: What’s something you would like to get fluent in outside of the world of mathematics, let’s say?

Tracy Zager (21:00):

I’ll say understanding the teenage brain, as the parent of a 13-year-old and 15-year-old. That’s the main thing I’m working on becoming fluent in!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:10):

Ooh!

Dan Meyer (21:13):

A language fluency, perhaps. All right, Graham. How about you?

Graham Fletcher (21:16):

For me typing, it’s always been an Achilles heel of mine. So voice-to-text has been my friend. But it’s also been my nemesis in much of my texting here and working virtually over the last couple years. So yeah, typing.

Dan Meyer (21:33):

Do you folks have some way of helping us understand the difference in how fluency is handled by instructors and by learners?

Tracy Zager (21:40):

I would say that the lay meaning of fluency is definitely a little different than what we mean in the math education realm. When we’re talking about math fact fluency, which is just one type of fluency. So you gotta think about procedural fluency and computational fluency; there are lots of types of fluency in math. And Graham and I had the luxury of really focusing in specifically on math fact fluency. We’re looking at kind of a subset of the procedural fluency. So the words you hear in all the citations are accurate, efficient, and flexible. There’s this combination of kids get the right answer in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of work and they can match their strategy or their approach to the situation. That’s where that flexibility comes in. And there’s like lots more I wanna say about that about sort of…I think one issue that comes up around fluency is that people are in a little bit of a rush. So they tend to think of the fluency as this automaticity or recall of known facts without having to think about it. And that is part of the end goal, but that’s not the journey to fluency. So this is one of the things that Graham and I thought about a lot was the path to fluency. The goal here it’s that student in middle school who’s learning something new doesn’t have to expend any effort to gather that fact. And they might do it because they’ve done it so many different ways that they’ve got it, and now they just know it, or they might be like my friend who’s a mathematician who still, if you say, “Six times 8,” she thinks in her head, “Twelve, 24, 48…” and she does this double-double-double associative property strategy. And it’s so efficient, you would never know. And that’s totally great. That’s fine. That’s not slowing her down. That’s not providing a drag in the middle of a more complex problem or new learning. So we’re really focused on having elementary school students be able to enter the middle and high school standards without having that pull out of the new thinking.

Graham Fletcher (23:53):

And as I think about that, I think about how so many students will memorize their facts, but then they haven’t memorized them with understanding. So that when they move into middle school and they move into high school, it’s almost like new knowledge and new understanding that’s applied from a stand-alone skill.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:10):

So something that felt really unique to me, Graham, as I was diving into the toolkit, is your use of images, Tracy, Graham, is the way that you use images to help students notice and wonder to start making sense of these quantities and the decomposition of numbers using images. Can you talk a little bit about how images played a part in the way that you think about this building a fact fluency?

Graham Fletcher (24:41):

What I realized is so many times when we approach math with just naked numbers with so many of our elementary students, the numbers aren’t visible. The quantities. They can’t see them; they can’t move them. They’re just those squiggly figures that we were talking about earlier on. So how is it that we make the quantities visible, to where students feel as if they can grab an apple and move it around? Because a lot of times we start with the naked numbers and then if kids don’t get the naked numbers, then we kind of backfill it. But what would happen if we start with the images? And then from there, these rich, flourishing mathematical conversations develop from the images. And I think that was the premise and the goal of the toolkit.

Tracy Zager (25:22):

When you look at how fact fluency has traditionally been taught, it’s all naked numbers. And sometimes we wrote ’em sideways. Like, that’s it. That was our variety of task type. Right? Sometimes it’s vertical; sometimes it’s horizontal. And that was it. And I’ve just known way too many kids who couldn’t find a hook to hang their hat on with that. It didn’t connect to anything. And so part of why I knew Graham was the perfect person for this project was his strength in multimedia photography, art, video. And so we started from this idea of contexts that for each lesson string in the toolkit, there’s some kind of context. An everyday object, arranged in some kind of a way that reveals mathematical structure and invites students to notice the properties. So we start with images of everyday objects: tennis balls, paint pots…um, help me out; here are a million of them. Crayons—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:18):

Crayons, markers.

Tracy Zager (26:18):

Shoes, right? Sushi, origami paper, all kinds of things in the different toolkits. So there’s a series of images or a three-act task or both around those everyday objects, and then story problems grounded in that context. And then there are images with mathematical tools that bring out different ideas, but relate in some way to the image talks. And we do all of that before we get to the naked number talk. Which we do, and by the time you get to the number talk, it’s pretty quick, ’cause they’ve been reasoning about cups of lemonade. And now when you give them the actual numerals, they’re all over it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:03):

I have to say too, as somebody who—particularly in middle school—navigated math anxiety, we recently talked with Allison Hintz and Anthony Smith about their amazing book Mathematizing Children’s Literature.

Tracy Zager (27:14):

Yay!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:14):

And I was explaining, like, if I sat down at the beginning of a math class and my teacher opened a picture book and said, “We’re gonna start here,” I felt my whole body relax. And if we start with this image, if we start with just looking at an image and making sense of an image, I feel like that could be such a powerful touchstone for all the work you do from there.

Tracy Zager (27:41):

That’s core. That’s a core design principle, is that invitational access. There are no barriers to entry. There’s nothing to decode. There’s nothing formal. We’ve been learning from Dan for years about this, right? Of starting with the informal and then eventually layering in the formal. I was in a class in Maine where they were doing an image talk and it’s these boxes of pencils. It’s a stack of boxes of pencils and they’re open and you can see there are 10 pencils in each box. And so there are five boxes of pencils each with 10 pencils in it. And then the next image is 10 boxes of pencils and each box is half full. So now it’s 10 boxes each with five. And the kids are talking and talking and then the third image, I think there are seven boxes each with 10 pencils in it. And she said, “What do you think the next picture’s gonna be?” And this girl said, “You just never know with these people!” <laugh> I dunno!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:37):

That’s kinda true. Knowing you both, it’s kinda true.

Tracy Zager (28:42):

Like if it’s seven boxes with 10 in it, one kid said, I think it’s gonna be 14 boxes of five. And other kids are like, I think it’s gonna be 10 boxes with seven. And they start talking about which of those there are and the relationships between—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:58):

But they’re making sense of numbers!

Tracy Zager (28:59):

Totally. So all the kids felt invited. They can offer something up. They’re noticing and wondering about that image. They’re talking about it in whatever informal language or home language that they speak. And that was core to us. That was a huge priority, because honestly, one of the motivations to talk about fluency is that it’s always been this gatekeeper. It has served to keep kids out of meaningful math. Particularly kids from marginalized or historically excluded communities. So they’re back at the round table, doing Mad Minutes, while the more advantaged kids are getting to do rich problem solving. And so, we thought, what if we could teach fact fluency through rich problem solving that everybody could access? That was like square one for us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:45):

That’s huge.

Dan Meyer (29:46):

That’s great to hear. What’s been helpful for me is to understand that students who are automatic, that’s just kind of what’s on the surface of things. And that below that might be some really robust kind of foundation or scaffolding that bleeds to a larger building being built, or it might be just really rickety and not offer a sturdy place to build farther up. It’s been really exciting to hear that. I wonder if you’d comment for a moment about, in the digital age and—I’m at Desmos and our sponsors are Amplify and we all work in the digital world quite a bit. There are a lot of what report to be solutions to the fluency issue, to developing fluency in the digital world. Just lots and lots of them. Some that are quite well used, others that are just like X, Y, or Z app on the market. You can find something. Do you have perspectives on these kinds of digital fluency building apps? Like, what about them works or doesn’t work? Let us know. Graham, how about you? And then Tracy, I’d love to hear your thoughts too.

Graham Fletcher (30:47):

Yeah, I think that’s a great question, ’cause there’s a lot of shiny bells and whistles out there right now that can really excite a lot of teachers. But I always come back to what works for me as a classroom teacher is probably gonna work in a digital world as well. So what are the things that I love and honor most about being in front of students, and how can I capture that in that virtual world? I think one of the things that really helps students make connections is coherence. I think coherence, especially when you leave students for—you don’t get to talk with them after the lesson is done—so I think about how we can purposefully sequence things through a day-to-day basis. I think coherence is something that gets really lost when we talk about fluency, especially with whether it be digital or whether it be print, because what ends up happening is we say, “OK, we have all these strategies we need to teach,” and it becomes a checklist. So how is it that we can just provide students the opportunity to play around in a space, whether it be digital or in person, but in a meaningful way that allows them the time and the space and that area to breathe and think, but be coherent. And connecting those lessons along the way. And I think coherence is one thing that a lot of the times it’s harder to—when we’re in the weeds, it’s so hard and difficult to zoom back out and say, “Do all these lessons connect? How do they intentionally connect? And how do they purposefully connect?” And without coherence, everything’s kind of broken down into that granular level. So when looking at—I think about Desmos and I think about the Toolkit and I think about how Tracy and I talked a lot about, “Well, this, does it connect with the context problem, does it connect with the image talk, or the lessons? Like, how does it all connect and how are we providing students an opportunity to make connections between the day-to-day instruction and lessons that we tackle?”

Tracy Zager (32:44):

I’m reminded of a conversation that Dan, you and I had a long time ago, in Portland, Maine, in a bar. I’ll just be honest. <laugh> And we were talking about how, in the earlier days of Desmos, you were stressed out by what you saw, which was kids one-on-one, on a device, in a silent room. And you were like, no, this is not it. This is not what technology is here to serve. We can do so many things better using technology appropriately, but we can’t lose talk and we can’t lose relationships and we can’t lose formative assessment and teachers listening to kids and kids listening to each other and helping each other understand their thinking. Right? So when I think about the tech that’s out there for fact fluency, most of it is gonna violate all rules I have around time testing. So that a whole bunch of it, I would just toss on that premise. They’re really no different than flashcards. It’s just flashcards set in junkyard heaps. Or, you know, underground caverns. Or with a volcano or whatever. It’s the same thing. There are some lovely visuals—I’m thinking of Berkeley Everett’s Math Flips. Those are really pretty. Mathigon has some really nice stuff that’s digital. And I think that those resources invite you to kind of ponder and notice things and talk about them. All the tools that we design in the toolkit are designed to get people talking to each other, and give teachers opportunities to pull alongside kids and listen in and understand where they are. For example, our games, we didn’t design the games to be played digitally, even though you could, and people did during COVID, because we want kids on the rug, next to each other, on their knees; I’ve seen kids like across tables. I was in a school recently where a kid was like, “I hope you believe in God, ’cause you’re going…!” You know what I mean? <laugh>. Like they’re all pumped up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:41):

They’re invested!

Tracy Zager (34:45):

They’re psyching each other up and down and they’re interacting and it’s social and the teacher’s walking around and she’s listening to the games. And they don’t actually need any bells and whistles. They need dice and they need counters and they need this game that is actually a game. In all of our conversations, games have to actually be games. Games cannot be “roll and record.” Games have to involve strategy. They have to be fun. So in designing those games, we didn’t feel like it brought any advantage to make that a digital platform. But things that did bring advantages digitally, like the ability to project these beautiful images or to use short video in the classroom, that really was a value-add that enabled us to do something different in math class than we had done before, and to get kids talking in a different way than they ever had before. When I think about fluency, historically, if you say like, “OK, it’s time to practice our math facts,” you hear a lot of groans. And when I see a Building Fact Fluency classroom and I say, “OK, it’s BFF time!” There’s like a “YEAAAAHHH!” You know? And so that’s what we’re after.

Graham Fletcher (35:47):

It’s all about kids, really, for us. And I think at the heart of it, we made all the decisions with teachers and kids at the forefront of it.

Tracy Zager (35:55):

I know of high schoolers who are newcomers, who have experienced very little formal education, and speak in other languages, are using it as high schoolers, because it involves language and math and all the deep work in the properties and it’s accessible, but it’s also not at all condescending or patronizing. Like we designed it to be appropriate for older kids. So that’s just something that I think we’re both really proud of. One thing we thought a lot about, especially in the multiplication-division kit is how a classroom teacher could use it and a coordinating educator in EL, Title, special education, intervention could also use it because there’s so much in it, that students could get to be experts, if they got extra time in it, using something that’s related and would give them additional practice. So they could play a game a little bit earlier than the rest of the classes. And they could come in already knowing about that game, or they could do a related task. We have all these optional tasks that no classroom teacher would ever have time to teach it all. So the special educator could use it and have kids doing a Same and Different or a True/False, or some of the optional games. And then the work in both special education and general education could connect.

Dan Meyer (37:20):

I just wanna say that this is an area that for so many students, as you’ve said, Tracy, it presents a barrier. It’s a very emotionally fraught area of mathematics. And we really appreciate the wisdom you brought here. And just the care you’ve brought to the product itself. Your knowledge of teaching, knowledge of math, and yeah, especially a love for students feels like it’s really infused throughout Building Fact Fluency. If our listeners want to know more outside of this podcast, outside of the product itself, where can they find your words, your voice? Where you folks at these days? Tell ’em, Graham would you?

Graham Fletcher (37:57):

You can find us at Stenhouse, Building Fact Fluency. And then Tracy and I, currently playing around, sharing ideas a lot on Twitter, under the hashtag #BuildingFactFluency. That’s kind of where we can all come together and share ideas. And then also on the Facebook community, where there’s lots of teachers sharing ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:19):

If you were to ask our listeners like, “Hey, if you wanna keep thinking about this, here’s something you could try or here’s something you could go do,” what could be a challenge that we could share that could help us continue this conversation?

Graham Fletcher (38:35):

Online you can actually download a full lesson string. And a lesson string is a series of activities and resources that are purposefully connected. You can pick one or two of those from the Stenhouse web site, Building Fact Fluency. You can try the game. You can try one of those strategy-based games. You can try an image talk and just see how it goes. And just share and reflect back, whether on Twitter or on Facebook. But it’s kind of there, if you wanna give it a whirl. And as Tracy was sharing, even if you’re a middle-school teacher or a high-school teacher, we really tried to think about those middle-school and high-school students keeping it grade level-agnostic. Just so every student has those opportunities for those mathematical conversations. So download a lesson string and give it a whirl, and we’d love to hear how it goes.

Dan Meyer (39:25):

Bethany and I will be working the same challenge with people in our life.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:29):

Yes.

Dan Meyer (39:29):

Enjoying some fact fluency with people in our homes, perhaps. We’ll see. And we’ll be sharing the results in the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group. Graham and Tracy, thanks so much for being here. It was such a treat to chat with you both.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:42):

I love learning with you and just helping to shift this idea of fluency into something that can be accessible and powerful and positive.

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What Valerie Henry says about math

“A lot of very fluent adults don’t always have every fact memorized. ”

– Val Henry

Meet the guest

Valerie Henry has been a math educator since 1986. She taught middle school math for 17 years and has worked as a lecturer at University of California Irvine since 2002. After doing her 2004 dissertation research on addition/subtraction fluency in first grade, Valerie created FactsWise, a daily mini-lesson approach that simultaneously develops  fluency,  number sense, and algebraic thinking. Additionally, she has provided curriculum and math professional development for K-12 teachers throughout her career, working with individual schools, districts, county offices of education, Illustrative Mathematics, the SBAC Digital Library, and the UCI Math Project.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S3 – 04. Ideas to build math fluency with Valerie Henry, Graham Fletcher, and Tracy Zager

Promotional image for "Math Teacher Lounge" Season 3, Episode 4 titled "Ideas to Build Math Fluency," featuring Valerie Henry, Tracy J. Zager, and Graham Fletcher.

Fluency in math can oftentimes be associated with negative experiences with its development— timed worksheets, for example. Bethany and Dan are joined by three guests to better understand fluency and how to make its approach fun. Dr. Val Henry shares her three-part definition of fluency and her five principles for developing it. Additionally, Tracy Zager and Graham Fletcher join Bethany and Dan to better understand fluency through a lens of equity and using multimedia as a tool.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:03)

Hey folks. Welcome back. This is Math Teacher Lounge, and I am one of your hosts, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I’m your other host, Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Hi, Dan.

Dan Meyer (00:11):

Hey, great to see you. We have a big one this week to chat about and some fantastic guests. We are chatting about fluency, which is the sort of word and concept that I feel like people have very, very non-neutral associations with it. A lot of them are very negative, for a lot of people.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:26):

I saw you frown a little. What’s up with that, Dan? You kind of, like, shrank.

Dan Meyer (00:30):

I have strong feelings about it. You know, there’s lots of ways that people go about helping people become fluent in mathematics. And a lot of them are harmful for students, and ineffective. And it got me thinking about fluency as it exists outside of the world of mathematics, where we have a lot of very clear images of it. We’re getting fluent in things all the time. Like, as humans. Human development is the story of fluency. And I just was wondering….Bethany, would you describe yourself as fluent at something outside of the world of mathematics? What is that? How’d you get fluent at it? What was the process?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:05):

Hmm, I think I’m a pretty fluent reader. I read all the time. I’m a happier person if I’ve read that day. I once saw this poster in a classroom; it said “10 Ways to Become a Better Reader: Read, Read, Read, Read, Read…you know, 10 times. Get it? Reading? You get better at reading by reading! So I would say reading. And it’s been kind of cool—I have a one-year-old who, it’s been really exciting slash overwhelmingly anxiety-producing to see him get very fluent with walking slash running, ’cause he’s getting faster every day. And it’s kind of fun. When I think of what’s something somebody’s trying to get fluent with…walking! He’s trying to be more fluid. He’s practicing transitions. He doesn’t wanna hold my hand while he traverses rocky terrain. He’s getting better at it. He’s practicing. What about you? What’s something…?

Dan Meyer (02:08):

I think about driving a lot. I’m a very fluent driver and I think a lot about when I was first a driver, you know? And how l have my hands on 10 and 2, vice grip, and do not talk to me; do not ask me anything; don’t ask me my NAME. I need to focus so hard. And then a year later, you know, I’m driving with one hand, smash the turn signal, take a sip off of whatever, change the CD. And then it’s no big deal.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):

Wait, did you pass the first time? Your test?

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Yeah, I don’t like to brag about it. <laugh> But I do all the time. <laugh> But I got a hundred on my driving test. I don’t care who knows it. And I hope it’s everybody. But I guess all of this is just to say there are areas of life where fluency feels natural, with the case of walking. There’s areas of life where fluency feels motivating, with like driving—I wanna be able to switch the CD out or whatever. And there’s areas where fluency feels terrifying and hard to come by, like mathematics, sometimes. So we have a set of guests here. Our first guest will help us figure out what do we mean by fluency? And what’s the research say about what fluency is and how students develop it in mathematics? And then our other guests will help us think about what it looks like in practice in the classroom. What are some novel, new ways to work on fluency? So first up we have Val Henry, Dr. Val Henry.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:32):

So we knew we needed help with the fluency definition, because when we think about it, it’s kind of big, right? And we wanted to look at what research about fluency really says. So we called on Valerie Henry. Val is a nationally board-certified teacher, taught middle school for 17 years, and since 2002 has worked with undergraduates graduates, credential candidates as a lecturer at the University of California, Irvine, one of my alma maters. So after doing her dissertation on addition and subtraction fluency in first grade, Val created a project to study ways to build addition and subtraction and multiplication and division fluency while also developing number sense in algebraic thinking. And the pilot grew and grew over the last 18 years into a powerful daily mini-lesson approach to facts fluency called FactsWise. And when we thought of fluency, the first person I thought of was Val. Welcome, Val Henry, to the Lounge! I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome.

Valerie Henry (04:36):

Thanks, Bethany. And thanks to you, Dan. It’s great to be here today.

Dan Meyer (04:41):

Great to have you; help yourself to whatever you find in the fridge. The names that people write down on those things in the bags are just recommendations. It’s potluck-style here. I’m curious, Val, if you’re, like, on an airplane, someone asks you what you do, and you say you study fluency…what is the layperson’s definition of what does it mean to be fluent in mathematics? And if you can give a brief tour through what the research says about what works and what doesn’t that would really help us orient our conversation here.

Valerie Henry (05:12):

The first thing I have to do when I talk to somebody on a plane is define the idea of fluency. And I often use an example of tying your shoelaces. Because that works with first graders as well as adults. This idea that when we first start trying to put our shoes on and get those shoelaces tied, somebody tries to, first of all, just do it for us. But then of course maybe tries to teach us the bunny-ears approach. And we struggle and struggle as little kids and eventually either the bunny-ears approach or something else starts to work for us. But we still have to pay attention to it. We have to think hard and it’s not easy. And then over time we get to the point where we basically don’t even think about it. When I tie my shoes in the morning. I’m not thinking about right-over-left and left-over-right and all of those things. I just do it. And so that’s a good, easy example of becoming fluent with something. I think what we’re talking about today though, is the basics, the adding and subtracting that we hope kids are going to have mastered maybe by second grade, and the multiplication and division facts that we wanna maybe have mastered by third, maybe fourth grade. So now what does that mean to become fluent with those basics? I have a three-part definition that seems to match up really nicely with the common core approach to fluency. Which is, first of all, we want the answers to be correct. And then second, we want the answers to be easy to know. And so what does that mean? Well, to me, it means without needing to count,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:12):

You mean without having to kind of muscle through it? Or say more about you mean.

Valerie Henry (07:16):

Well, I guess what I mean is that when you watch a young child try and solve something even as simple as two plus three, they might put up two fingers and then go 3, 4, 5 with three more fingers winding up on their hand, one or the other of their hands. While they’re doing that, they don’t really have a sense of whether even their answer is right or not, quite often. Especially when you get to the larger adding and subtracting problems, you can see a lot of errors happening as they’re trying to count. And it’s taking up cognitive energy to do that counting process, especially as you get to the larger quantities. So my definition of fluency now is “getting it right without needing to do that hard work like counting.” Now, some people might say, well, we just want them to have ’em memorized. But in my research, I’ve learned that a lot of very fluid adults don’t always have every fact memorized. In fact, if you ask a room full of adults, what’s seven plus nine, you might learn that they can all get it correct quickly, quickly…but they don’t all have it memorized. And so when you ask them, “How did you get that?” Many of them will say, “Well, I just gave one from the 7 to the 9 and I know that 10 plus 6 is 16.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:53):

That’s such an important distinction. My brain literally just did that actually!

Valerie Henry (08:58):

<laugh> Right? <laugh> But you’re fluid with it, because it doesn’t take you much cognitive energy at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:05):

Right.

Valerie Henry (09:07):

So now we have “correct without needing to put that cognitive energy,” which usually means that you’re counting. And then the third thing is “relatively quickly,” so that you’re not spending 15 seconds trying to figure it out. Even that part-whole strategy approach can be done really quickly, almost instantaneously. Or it can take a long time. So if a student can get the answer correct within, you know, three or four seconds— is I’m pretty generous—I figure that they’re pretty darn fluent with that fact. So that’s my three-part definition of these basics, fluency.

Dan Meyer (09:55):

I love the distinction between getting it correct and getting it quick. It’s possible to be quick with wrong answers. It’s possible to be like, “Those are separate components there.” And I echo Bethany’s appreciation for this third option in between knowing it instantaneously through memorization and muscling through it. But there’s like a continuum there of how much energy it took you to come up with it that all feels extremely helpful.

Valerie Henry (10:21):

And you know, one of the things that I’ve noticed is that when kids are pressured to come up with those instantaneous answers, they often default to guessing and get it wrong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:30):

Mm, yeah.

Valerie Henry (10:30):

So that’s one of the things that I’ve learned is that as we’re trying to help students develop fluency, it’s important to start with building their conceptual understanding of what it means to do, you know, 3 times 9 and what the correct answer is, maybe using manipulatives or representations of some sort. Not skip-counting! I really have found that skip-counting just perpetuates itself in many students’ minds and that they never stop skip-counting, which means they’re putting in not very much mental energy if it’s 2 times 3 but a ton of mental energy if it’s 7 times 8. Because frankly, it’s really hard to skip count by sevens. And by eights.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:18):

I can get to 14 and then I’m like, wait, wait, what was next? Right? No, no, no…21! What do you feel are some misconceptions that maybe teachers, maybe parents have about fluency in math?

Valerie Henry (11:30):

I think maybe one of the first ones is that if students count or skip-count, their answers repetitively over and over and over and over, that they’re bound to memorize them. And the study that I did back in 2004, I actually had a school that had decided that they were going to do time tests with their students every day, all year. And that undoubtedly by the end of the year, those students would be fluent.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:06):

And to clarify by time test, you mean like, sit down, pencil, paper, ready, go, worksheet kind of thing.

Valerie Henry (12:15):

Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:16):

Some of us might remember quite vividly.

Valerie Henry (12:18):

<laugh> Very vividly. And you know, you have to get it done within a certain amount of time. So they made it fun for the students. Apparently the students enjoyed it. I was a little leery about that, but in the end, when I went and checked on the students and I did one-on-one assessments with half of the students in every class that were randomly selected so that I could get a sense of where they were with their fluency—and these were first graders—they basically had nothing memorized. They were simply counting as fast as they possibly could. And, you know, mostly getting the right answers. But they had not memorized. So that’s one of the myths, I think, is that repetitive practice of counting gets you to memorization.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:10):

If I put it in front of you enough times, you’ll become fluent.

Valerie Henry (13:14):

Right, right. Now these students didn’t really get any instruction, any help learning these. They just simply tested over and over and over. So that’s another thing that I think is a misconception. It’s that if we test students, but don’t really teach them fluency, then they’re going to become fluent. If we just test them every Friday or that kind of thing. And that they’ll learn them at home. But really what that means is a few lucky kids who have parents who have the time and the energy and the background to know how to help will take that job on at home. Not that many students are really that fortunate.

Dan Meyer (14:01):

It’s almost like the traditional approach, or the approach you’re describing, confuses process and product. It says, “Well, the product is that eventually fluent students will be able to do something like this, see these problems and answer them, answer them quickly,” and says, “Well, that must be the process then as well; let’s give them that products a whole lot.” But as I hear you describe fluency with bunny ears on shoelaces, there’s these images and approaches and techniques that require a very active teacher presence to support the development of it. That’s just kind of interesting to me.

Valerie Henry (14:35):

My initial project, the pilot project that I tried, was to simply ask teachers to follow five key principles. And the first one was to do something in the classroom every day for—I told them, even if you’ve only got five or 10 minutes, work on fluency for five or 10 minutes a day, and let’s see what happens. So that was one key element was just to teach it and to give students opportunities to get what the research calls for when you’re trying to memorize, which is actually immediate feedback. When I talk about immediate feedback with my student teachers, I say, “I’m talking about within one or two seconds of trying a problem, and then sort of immediately knowing, getting feedback of whether you got the answer right or not so that your brain can kind of gain that confidence. ‘Oh, not only did I come up with an answer, but somebody’s telling me it’s the correct answer.’”

Dan Meyer (15:38):

There’s a lot of apps now in the digital world that offer students questions about arithmetic or other kinds of mathematical concepts and give immediate feedback of a sort: the feedback of “You’re right; you’re wrong” sort. Is that effective fluency development, in your view?

Valerie Henry (15:57):

I haven’t heard and I haven’t seen them being super-effective. The ways I think about this are “Immediate feedback isn’t the only thing we need.” Probably one of the biggest things that we need is for students to develop strategies. And this is one of the other things I’ve learned from international research, from countries that do have students who become very fluent very early, is that they don’t shoot straight for memorization, but they go through this process of taking students from doing some counting and then quickly moving them to trying to use logic. So, “Hey, you really are confident that 2 + 2 is 4; so now let’s use that to think about 2 + 3.” Actually, as an algebra teacher, I would much rather have students that have a combination of memorization and these strategies, than students who’ve only memorized. Isn’t that interesting that my most successful algebra students were good strategy thinkers. Not just good memorizers.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:09):

So you mentioned there were five that kind of helped root this idea in like, “What can teachers do? What is the best thing that teachers can do to support with fact fluency?” So, everyday was key.

Valerie Henry (17:22):

Then the next principle that I really focus on is switching immediately to the connected subtractions so that students—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:33):

Not waiting until you’ve gotten all the way through addition. But making “Ooh!”

Valerie Henry (17:38):

Totally. And I didn’t do that the first year. And when we looked at the results of the assessments at the end of the year, we realized that our students were so much weaker in subtraction than addition. So the following pilot year, we tried this other approach of doing subtraction right after the students had developed some fluency with that small chunk of addition. And we got such better subtraction results.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:11):

What are the other principles?

Valerie Henry (18:13):

The biggest one is to use these strategies. So the strategies makes the third. And then the fourth I would say is to go from concrete to representational to abstract.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:27):

Don’t put away those manipulatives. Don’t put away those tools.

Valerie Henry (18:31):

Oh, so important to come back to them for multiplication and division. And my fifth principle is to wait on assessment. To use it as true assessment, but not race to start testing before students have had a chance to go through this three-phase process. Which is conceptual understanding with manipulatives; building strategies, usually with representations; and then working on building some speed until it’s just that natural fluency.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:07):

I wanna say thank you so much for offering your really learned perspective, because you have not only done the research, but seen it in action and seen how shifting our notions of fluency and what fluency can be and what a powerful foundation it can be for all mathematicians. Really, that shift is so powerful. And I appreciate you sharing it with our listeners and with us. So we’re so excited that we got to talk with you today, Val—

Dan Meyer (19:35):

Thank you, Dr. Henry.

Valerie Henry (19:37):

You’re welcome!

Dan Meyer (19:41):

With us now we have Graham Fletcher and Tracy Zager, a couple of people who understand fluency at a very deep and classroom level. I wanna introduce them and get their perspective on what we’re trying to solve here with fluency. So Graham Fletcher has served in education in a lot of different roles: as a classroom teacher, math coach, math specialist, and he’s continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary math. He’s the author, along with Tracy, of Building Fact Fluency, a fluency kit we’ll talk about, and openly shares so much of his wisdom and resources at gfletchy.com. Tracy Johnson Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of this toolkit, Building Fact Fluency, and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers, including, yours truly. Thank you for all that insight, Tracy, and support on the book.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:49):

Dan and I were talking at the beginning of the episode about things we feel like, “Hey, I’m fluent in that. I’m fluent in that.”

Dan Meyer (20:55):

Just very curious: What’s something you would like to get fluent in outside of the world of mathematics, let’s say?

Tracy Zager (21:00):

I’ll say understanding the teenage brain, as the parent of a 13-year-old and 15-year-old. That’s the main thing I’m working on becoming fluent in!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:10):

Ooh!

Dan Meyer (21:13):

A language fluency, perhaps. All right, Graham. How about you?

Graham Fletcher (21:16):

For me typing, it’s always been an Achilles heel of mine. So voice-to-text has been my friend. But it’s also been my nemesis in much of my texting here and working virtually over the last couple years. So yeah, typing.

Dan Meyer (21:33):

Do you folks have some way of helping us understand the difference in how fluency is handled by instructors and by learners?

Tracy Zager (21:40):

I would say that the lay meaning of fluency is definitely a little different than what we mean in the math education realm. When we’re talking about math fact fluency, which is just one type of fluency. So you gotta think about procedural fluency and computational fluency; there are lots of types of fluency in math. And Graham and I had the luxury of really focusing in specifically on math fact fluency. We’re looking at kind of a subset of the procedural fluency. So the words you hear in all the citations are accurate, efficient, and flexible. There’s this combination of kids get the right answer in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of work and they can match their strategy or their approach to the situation. That’s where that flexibility comes in. And there’s like lots more I wanna say about that about sort of…I think one issue that comes up around fluency is that people are in a little bit of a rush. So they tend to think of the fluency as this automaticity or recall of known facts without having to think about it. And that is part of the end goal, but that’s not the journey to fluency. So this is one of the things that Graham and I thought about a lot was the path to fluency. The goal here it’s that student in middle school who’s learning something new doesn’t have to expend any effort to gather that fact. And they might do it because they’ve done it so many different ways that they’ve got it, and now they just know it, or they might be like my friend who’s a mathematician who still, if you say, “Six times 8,” she thinks in her head, “Twelve, 24, 48…” and she does this double-double-double associative property strategy. And it’s so efficient, you would never know. And that’s totally great. That’s fine. That’s not slowing her down. That’s not providing a drag in the middle of a more complex problem or new learning. So we’re really focused on having elementary school students be able to enter the middle and high school standards without having that pull out of the new thinking.

Graham Fletcher (23:53):

And as I think about that, I think about how so many students will memorize their facts, but then they haven’t memorized them with understanding. So that when they move into middle school and they move into high school, it’s almost like new knowledge and new understanding that’s applied from a stand-alone skill.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:10):

So something that felt really unique to me, Graham, as I was diving into the toolkit, is your use of images, Tracy, Graham, is the way that you use images to help students notice and wonder to start making sense of these quantities and the decomposition of numbers using images. Can you talk a little bit about how images played a part in the way that you think about this building a fact fluency?

Graham Fletcher (24:41):

What I realized is so many times when we approach math with just naked numbers with so many of our elementary students, the numbers aren’t visible. The quantities. They can’t see them; they can’t move them. They’re just those squiggly figures that we were talking about earlier on. So how is it that we make the quantities visible, to where students feel as if they can grab an apple and move it around? Because a lot of times we start with the naked numbers and then if kids don’t get the naked numbers, then we kind of backfill it. But what would happen if we start with the images? And then from there, these rich, flourishing mathematical conversations develop from the images. And I think that was the premise and the goal of the toolkit.

Tracy Zager (25:22):

When you look at how fact fluency has traditionally been taught, it’s all naked numbers. And sometimes we wrote ’em sideways. Like, that’s it. That was our variety of task type. Right? Sometimes it’s vertical; sometimes it’s horizontal. And that was it. And I’ve just known way too many kids who couldn’t find a hook to hang their hat on with that. It didn’t connect to anything. And so part of why I knew Graham was the perfect person for this project was his strength in multimedia photography, art, video. And so we started from this idea of contexts that for each lesson string in the toolkit, there’s some kind of context. An everyday object, arranged in some kind of a way that reveals mathematical structure and invites students to notice the properties. So we start with images of everyday objects: tennis balls, paint pots…um, help me out; here are a million of them. Crayons—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:18):

Crayons, markers.

Tracy Zager (26:18):

Shoes, right? Sushi, origami paper, all kinds of things in the different toolkits. So there’s a series of images or a three-act task or both around those everyday objects, and then story problems grounded in that context. And then there are images with mathematical tools that bring out different ideas, but relate in some way to the image talks. And we do all of that before we get to the naked number talk. Which we do, and by the time you get to the number talk, it’s pretty quick, ’cause they’ve been reasoning about cups of lemonade. And now when you give them the actual numerals, they’re all over it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:03):

I have to say too, as somebody who—particularly in middle school—navigated math anxiety, we recently talked with Allison Hintz and Anthony Smith about their amazing book Mathematizing Children’s Literature.

Tracy Zager (27:14):

Yay!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:14):

And I was explaining, like, if I sat down at the beginning of a math class and my teacher opened a picture book and said, “We’re gonna start here,” I felt my whole body relax. And if we start with this image, if we start with just looking at an image and making sense of an image, I feel like that could be such a powerful touchstone for all the work you do from there.

Tracy Zager (27:41):

That’s core. That’s a core design principle, is that invitational access. There are no barriers to entry. There’s nothing to decode. There’s nothing formal. We’ve been learning from Dan for years about this, right? Of starting with the informal and then eventually layering in the formal. I was in a class in Maine where they were doing an image talk and it’s these boxes of pencils. It’s a stack of boxes of pencils and they’re open and you can see there are 10 pencils in each box. And so there are five boxes of pencils each with 10 pencils in it. And then the next image is 10 boxes of pencils and each box is half full. So now it’s 10 boxes each with five. And the kids are talking and talking and then the third image, I think there are seven boxes each with 10 pencils in it. And she said, “What do you think the next picture’s gonna be?” And this girl said, “You just never know with these people!” <laugh> I dunno!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:37):

That’s kinda true. Knowing you both, it’s kinda true.

Tracy Zager (28:42):

Like if it’s seven boxes with 10 in it, one kid said, I think it’s gonna be 14 boxes of five. And other kids are like, I think it’s gonna be 10 boxes with seven. And they start talking about which of those there are and the relationships between—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:58):

But they’re making sense of numbers!

Tracy Zager (28:59):

Totally. So all the kids felt invited. They can offer something up. They’re noticing and wondering about that image. They’re talking about it in whatever informal language or home language that they speak. And that was core to us. That was a huge priority, because honestly, one of the motivations to talk about fluency is that it’s always been this gatekeeper. It has served to keep kids out of meaningful math. Particularly kids from marginalized or historically excluded communities. So they’re back at the round table, doing Mad Minutes, while the more advantaged kids are getting to do rich problem solving. And so, we thought, what if we could teach fact fluency through rich problem solving that everybody could access? That was like square one for us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:45):

That’s huge.

Dan Meyer (29:46):

That’s great to hear. What’s been helpful for me is to understand that students who are automatic, that’s just kind of what’s on the surface of things. And that below that might be some really robust kind of foundation or scaffolding that bleeds to a larger building being built, or it might be just really rickety and not offer a sturdy place to build farther up. It’s been really exciting to hear that. I wonder if you’d comment for a moment about, in the digital age and—I’m at Desmos and our sponsors are Amplify and we all work in the digital world quite a bit. There are a lot of what report to be solutions to the fluency issue, to developing fluency in the digital world. Just lots and lots of them. Some that are quite well used, others that are just like X, Y, or Z app on the market. You can find something. Do you have perspectives on these kinds of digital fluency building apps? Like, what about them works or doesn’t work? Let us know. Graham, how about you? And then Tracy, I’d love to hear your thoughts too.

Graham Fletcher (30:47):

Yeah, I think that’s a great question, ’cause there’s a lot of shiny bells and whistles out there right now that can really excite a lot of teachers. But I always come back to what works for me as a classroom teacher is probably gonna work in a digital world as well. So what are the things that I love and honor most about being in front of students, and how can I capture that in that virtual world? I think one of the things that really helps students make connections is coherence. I think coherence, especially when you leave students for—you don’t get to talk with them after the lesson is done—so I think about how we can purposefully sequence things through a day-to-day basis. I think coherence is something that gets really lost when we talk about fluency, especially with whether it be digital or whether it be print, because what ends up happening is we say, “OK, we have all these strategies we need to teach,” and it becomes a checklist. So how is it that we can just provide students the opportunity to play around in a space, whether it be digital or in person, but in a meaningful way that allows them the time and the space and that area to breathe and think, but be coherent. And connecting those lessons along the way. And I think coherence is one thing that a lot of the times it’s harder to—when we’re in the weeds, it’s so hard and difficult to zoom back out and say, “Do all these lessons connect? How do they intentionally connect? And how do they purposefully connect?” And without coherence, everything’s kind of broken down into that granular level. So when looking at—I think about Desmos and I think about the Toolkit and I think about how Tracy and I talked a lot about, “Well, this, does it connect with the context problem, does it connect with the image talk, or the lessons? Like, how does it all connect and how are we providing students an opportunity to make connections between the day-to-day instruction and lessons that we tackle?”

Tracy Zager (32:44):

I’m reminded of a conversation that Dan, you and I had a long time ago, in Portland, Maine, in a bar. I’ll just be honest. <laugh> And we were talking about how, in the earlier days of Desmos, you were stressed out by what you saw, which was kids one-on-one, on a device, in a silent room. And you were like, no, this is not it. This is not what technology is here to serve. We can do so many things better using technology appropriately, but we can’t lose talk and we can’t lose relationships and we can’t lose formative assessment and teachers listening to kids and kids listening to each other and helping each other understand their thinking. Right? So when I think about the tech that’s out there for fact fluency, most of it is gonna violate all rules I have around time testing. So that a whole bunch of it, I would just toss on that premise. They’re really no different than flashcards. It’s just flashcards set in junkyard heaps. Or, you know, underground caverns. Or with a volcano or whatever. It’s the same thing. There are some lovely visuals—I’m thinking of Berkeley Everett’s Math Flips. Those are really pretty. Mathigon has some really nice stuff that’s digital. And I think that those resources invite you to kind of ponder and notice things and talk about them. All the tools that we design in the toolkit are designed to get people talking to each other, and give teachers opportunities to pull alongside kids and listen in and understand where they are. For example, our games, we didn’t design the games to be played digitally, even though you could, and people did during COVID, because we want kids on the rug, next to each other, on their knees; I’ve seen kids like across tables. I was in a school recently where a kid was like, “I hope you believe in God, ’cause you’re going…!” You know what I mean? <laugh>. Like they’re all pumped up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:41):

They’re invested!

Tracy Zager (34:45):

They’re psyching each other up and down and they’re interacting and it’s social and the teacher’s walking around and she’s listening to the games. And they don’t actually need any bells and whistles. They need dice and they need counters and they need this game that is actually a game. In all of our conversations, games have to actually be games. Games cannot be “roll and record.” Games have to involve strategy. They have to be fun. So in designing those games, we didn’t feel like it brought any advantage to make that a digital platform. But things that did bring advantages digitally, like the ability to project these beautiful images or to use short video in the classroom, that really was a value-add that enabled us to do something different in math class than we had done before, and to get kids talking in a different way than they ever had before. When I think about fluency, historically, if you say like, “OK, it’s time to practice our math facts,” you hear a lot of groans. And when I see a Building Fact Fluency classroom and I say, “OK, it’s BFF time!” There’s like a “YEAAAAHHH!” You know? And so that’s what we’re after.

Graham Fletcher (35:47):

It’s all about kids, really, for us. And I think at the heart of it, we made all the decisions with teachers and kids at the forefront of it.

Tracy Zager (35:55):

I know of high schoolers who are newcomers, who have experienced very little formal education, and speak in other languages, are using it as high schoolers, because it involves language and math and all the deep work in the properties and it’s accessible, but it’s also not at all condescending or patronizing. Like we designed it to be appropriate for older kids. So that’s just something that I think we’re both really proud of. One thing we thought a lot about, especially in the multiplication-division kit is how a classroom teacher could use it and a coordinating educator in EL, Title, special education, intervention could also use it because there’s so much in it, that students could get to be experts, if they got extra time in it, using something that’s related and would give them additional practice. So they could play a game a little bit earlier than the rest of the classes. And they could come in already knowing about that game, or they could do a related task. We have all these optional tasks that no classroom teacher would ever have time to teach it all. So the special educator could use it and have kids doing a Same and Different or a True/False, or some of the optional games. And then the work in both special education and general education could connect.

Dan Meyer (37:20):

I just wanna say that this is an area that for so many students, as you’ve said, Tracy, it presents a barrier for their inclusion in mathematics. It’s a very emotionally fraught area of mathematics. And we really appreciate the wisdom you brought here. And just the care you’ve brought to the product itself. Your knowledge of teaching, knowledge of math, and yeah, especially a love for students feels like it’s really infused throughout Building Fact Fluency. If our listeners want to know more outside of this podcast, outside of the product itself, where can they find your words, your voice? Where you folks at these days? Tell ’em, Graham would you?

Graham Fletcher (37:57):

You can find us at Stenhouse, Building Fact Fluency. And then Tracy and I, currently playing around, sharing ideas a lot on Twitter, under the hashtag #BuildingFactFluency. That’s kind of where we can all come together and share ideas. And then also on the Facebook community, where there’s lots of teachers sharing ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:19):

If you were to ask our listeners like, “Hey, if you wanna keep thinking about this, here’s something you could try or here’s something you could go do,” what could be a challenge that we could share that could help us continue this conversation?

Graham Fletcher (38:35):

Online you can actually download a full lesson string. And a lesson string is a series of activities and resources that are purposefully connected. You can pick one or two of those from the Stenhouse web site, Building Fact Fluency. You can try the game. You can try one of those strategy-based games. You can try an image talk and just see how it goes. And just share and reflect back, whether on Twitter or on Facebook. But it’s kind of there, if you wanna give it a whirl. And as Tracy was sharing, even if you’re a middle-school teacher or a high-school teacher, we really tried to think about those middle-school and high-school students keeping it grade level-agnostic. Just so every student has those opportunities for those mathematical conversations. So download a lesson string and give it a whirl, and we’d love to hear how it goes.

Dan Meyer (39:25):

Bethany and I will be working the same challenge with people in our life.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:29):

Yes.

Dan Meyer (39:29):

Enjoying some fact fluency with people in our homes, perhaps. We’ll see. And we’ll be sharing the results in the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group. Graham and Tracy, thanks so much for being here. It was such a treat to chat with you both.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:42):

I love learning with you and just helping to shift this idea of fluency into something that can be accessible and powerful and positive.

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We’ll also share new and exciting free resources for your classroom every month.

What Valerie Henry says about math

“A lot of very fluent adults don’t always have every fact memorized. ”

– Val Henry

Meet the guests

Valerie Henry has been a math educator since 1986. She taught middle school math for 17 years and has worked as a lecturer at University of California Irvine since 2002. After doing her 2004 dissertation research on addition/subtraction fluency in first grade, Valerie created FactsWise, a daily mini-lesson approach that simultaneously develops  fluency,  number sense, and algebraic thinking. Additionally, she has provided curriculum and math professional development for K-12 teachers throughout her career, working with individual schools, districts, county offices of education, Illustrative Mathematics, the SBAC Digital Library, and the UCI Math Project.

Graham Fletcher has served in education as a classroom teacher, a math coach, and currently as a math specialist. He is continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary mathematics. He is the author of Building Fact Fluency and openly shares many of his resources at gfletchy.com. Follow him on Twitter.

Tracy Johnston Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of the Building Fact Fluency toolkits and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books by teachers, for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers. Follow her on Facebook.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S3 – 03. Math professional learning experiences with Elham Kazemi

Podcast episode poster for "Math Teacher Lounge" featuring Elham Kazemi, a Mathematics Education Professor at the University of Washington.

How do we continue to grow and be more reflective about our own teaching? In this episode, Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer chat with Elham Kazemi to explore how to look at teaching as a collaborative experiment. Moving more toward analyzing student thinking and how that contributes to teaching itself, leaves more space for one’s own understanding of math to grow throughout your career. When one revises their teaching based on the data we’re collecting from students and peers, this allows us to be both teachers and learners forever.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:04):
Hey folks, welcome to math teacher lounge. My name is Dan Meyer

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):
And I’m Bethany, Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:09):
And this is the teacher learning week. We’re thinking this week about how we grow as teachers. And to start with, I just wanted to ask Bethany, uh, first Bethany, how are you doing? And second <laugh>. Um, what is, what, what has been your like most favorite and least favorite, most effective least effective professional learning experience when you were a classroom teacher?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:30):
I think for me, most effective was definitely when I could use it right away. Right. Whatever we were talking about, whatever we were learning, like I got to go put it into practice. Sure. Uh, I, I remember we did something where we designed a lesson and then we went and taught it like one person taught it and the rest of the people watched. And then we kind of like got to workshop it, which that was like a one off the fact that we got to go out of our classroom and go observe somebody teaching. It was gold. It was gold. Um, so that was probably the most effective, because there was so much opportunity for reflection and least effective was something that felt like just completely unconnected to, you know, kind of either so theoretical that it wasn’t like touching on what we were navigating right there in the classroom. I don’t know. What about you? What can you think of times that, are you gonna say times you led a PD? Those were the most effective?

Dan Meyer (01:26):
Yeah. My favorite ones are my sessions, of course. But if I had to throw those out for a second, um, yeah, I, I like, I want, I want both, I want it all. I want the, um, the big ideas that take a long time to settle in that also have like small bits that can carve off and use relatively quickly to test my understanding of the ID is, yeah. I’ve had some, some PD where I’m like, this is very relevant to tomorrow. And I also don’t care. Like for instance, like how to use the CD, the, the, like the, the software, you know, on the, on my curriculum, for instance, it’s like, okay, yeah, this is just a little, little too practical. You know what I’m saying? I want some bigger ideas to chew on. Um, I would also say like, I love my favorite PD by a long was writing up thoughts about how the day went and putting that on the internet in a public place that we used to call a blog and where people would come along, cuz there was like 10 blogs and like, tell me like that’s no good.

Dan Meyer (02:16):
Like the thing that you like is not a thing you should like, here’s the thing you should like instead, or try instead, or just this weird community that sprung up, you know, when I was, uh, starting to teach relatively new teacher and uh, I feel like I grew a lot

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:28):
Go back to this idea blog. If people would call you, they’d call you on the phone. What, what

Dan Meyer (02:32):
Was they would fax me? They, it would be a fact. So

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:35):
Fax,

Dan Meyer (02:36):
I got it. Fax a comment. Yeah. Got it. So, uh, that’s, that’s Bethany and I, and we’re super excited to have people who have a bit broader of a perspective, a bit more of the land than what, what the two of us, um, think about with our own professional learning experiences.

Dan Meyer (02:52):
We’ve invited on an expert. We hope will help us understand alternate ways to do professional learning as teachers to grow as teachers besides, you know, all of us getting into the same room once every, every, uh, few months together, Elm Cosmi is a professor of mathematics education at the university of Washington, Elm studies, how strong professional communities develop in schools and how schools can be organized. So teachers learn from and what their students, this work is informed by equity oriented research on thinking, uh, on children’s mathematical thinking and classroom practice. She is co-author with Allison hints of intentional talk, which focuses on leading productive discussions in mathematics. And she edited coral counting and counting collections with Megan Frankie and Angela tau, which focuses on the importance of counting from preschool to fifth grade. Looking forward to a great chat with Elham, welcome Elham to the show.

Elham Kazemi (03:43):
Thanks for having me, my favorite topic ever to talk with you both about,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:47):
I think something that I just deeply, deeply respected admire is that I feel like you are constantly sharing about how you are learning. You’re continue to learn, continue to, to try out new ideas and you do a very good job of like highlighting things that you’ve learned, whether that’s sharing it through a tweet or sharing it amongst colleagues or peers. And I, I just really appreciate that because I feel like being in the mathematics community with you, I feel like I grow by, I just like paying attention to like, Hey, she’s a learner, she’s done all these amazing things and thinks in these amazing ways and has shifted my thinking in such amazing ways. But she’s saying, Hey, I I’m still learning. So yeah. Hi, thank you. Thank you for your, I don’t know. We’re just glad to have you here.

Elham Kazemi (04:41):
Thanks. I do feel like the perpetual student, like I’ve never left school and I wonder like one day maybe I will, when I grow older, when I grow up, will I ever leave school? Maybe not.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:52):
<laugh>

Dan Meyer (04:53):
Great. Let’s dig in. Yeah. So please tell us you partnered with a school for some professional learning that wasn’t the sort where you would go in and offer brilliant ideas and then leave. But rather it, it seemed like it was more of a job embedded sort, the sort of thing that might have a life of its own after, you know, after the, the grant ends or the program ends. Can you describe what it was you did and what the effect was?

Elham Kazemi (05:15):
I think I wanna first say that everything that I have done and experimented with as really the result of working with fabulous people, teachers, coaches, principals, other, um, colleagues and peers in the field who are constantly trying to work on what good teaching looks like and how you learn to do it. And mostly because we care about kids and we care about what students experience in the classroom. And we want kids to love school, to have school, be a place where they’re known, they’re loved, um, that they look forward to being in every day. And I think there’s that, um, the why that, that, um, per that makes you want to learn is really about the students and being, doing things in service of them. Because when, uh, as one of my colleagues said, when children thrive, teachers thrive. So what does it mean for us to thrive?

Elham Kazemi (06:06):
If we are focused on our kids’ experiences in schools, what we did at this, this particular school and a group of schools is kind of tap into a, all that curiosity and drive that teachers have to do a good job and to use their imaginations well, and to engage the actual ideas that children have in their classroom together, not separately, not like get a great idea and be inspired by it and then go figure it out by yourself, but be inspired by ideas and then try to figure them out together. Because, um, as you both know, very talented teachers, uh, who also have been inspired to change your classroom teaching. Once you figure something out or as you’re figuring it out, there’s all kinds of intricacies. Like I remember when I first learned about three act tasks, I thought what a brilliant idea, but it’s not so simple to try to enact the brilliance of it because you can simplify it too much or you can get stuck and not really know how do you move from one act to the next, or what’s the point of the third act?

Elham Kazemi (07:12):
Do you just like reveal the answer and that’s it. And then you move on. Um, how do you even do design the tasks to begin with all of those things, raise questions and working on them together, uh, and carving up that space and time to work on them together is sorely missing in schools. And so that’s what we were able to do with the schools that I parted and it is find the time and then design the structures so that teachers could, um, <affirmative> think about their teaching together and then also be in the classroom together with kids. So the kids see that we are also learning to be responsive to them. That’s the point. So we have to work stuff out when kids are present, which is the part that usually trips a lot of people up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:55):
Well, that to me is I think the part that shifted my teaching and continues to is this, it is a culture shift to tell your students, to invite your students into your learning, to tell them I’m, I’m learning too. It was an invitation to, to be vulnerable in a way that I think sometimes teachers are very afraid to be vulnerable. Uh, if they don’t know what the student response is gonna be, or they don’t know, they don’t wanna seem like they don’t know the answers or they don’t know how to figure out a problem. I think that’s a real shift in the, in the culture for, for compared to maybe what we, we experienced growing up.

Dan Meyer (08:33):
I hated not knowing the answer to a math problem. I admitting I, I was uncertain with the mathematics, but to admit that I am like a, a work in aggress as a teacher, feels like an extra admission, an extra layer of humility, which is, I don’t know, it’s a really special thing that you were up to with that school. I’d love to hear like about specific structures that you worked with to help make that transition feel, you know, more natural, more welcoming, more productive.

Elham Kazemi (08:58):
So, I mean, you probably have experienced common planning time, right? This is a thing that often happens for us teachers. I think that common planning time looks a lot sometimes like, uh, what are we gonna do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? Okay. What do we need? What are the materials we need? Who is gonna do that? Will you write this? And that’s what kind of common planning time, and then it’s over. And then you might see each other at lunch and say, well, how did that go? And you’ll talk a little bit about it, but common planning time and learning labs, which is sort of what the, what we call the, the PD that we designed means. Okay. So let’s take three act task. We, we write a little bit about it. We’ve seen a couple, but okay. What would it really mean to plan this particular one?

Elham Kazemi (09:42):
So common planning time is thinking like, how are we gonna launch that first act? What are we actually gonna say? What do we think the kids are gonna say? Why would we say it that way? What if they say something else? Um, and then, okay, so what does it actually sounds like to transition from act one, to act two? What might we say, what would happen with this particular task and actually getting into the details of how you imagine, like, what, what you would do when you were actually planning the specifics of a particular lesson, but leaving it loose enough that you’re not trying to make it perfect. And I think that’s the trick. So, so that you are not so invested, that goes in that particular way or that you fail. If it doesn’t go that way. Um, but that you have something you wanna learn together and trying out this three act task with a particular group of kids so that when you go into the classroom, first of all, you’ve all thought through the full R of the lesson.

Elham Kazemi (10:40):
And you’re curious enough about what’s gonna happen at particular points that you’ve left room for uncertainty and the taking of some risks. So then when you go together into a classroom and kids start to say things that you didn’t anticipate you or, or they start to do something that you’re so jazzed about, that you didn’t anticipate that you’re like, this is the thing we should pursue more. You give each other permission to do that. You’re like, whoa, wait, did you hear what so? And so said, I think we should follow that road and see where it takes us, or, huh. Okay, hold on. And that’s what we call teacher timeouts, where you actually confer briefly and you tell the kids, this is a super special day. We’ve tried to design something. We’re very curious how you are gonna react to it. So we’re gonna try it out. And along the way, we might pause to get your ideas or for us to make some decisions and steer the ship in a, in a new directions and see what happens. So we’re gonna be sitting closely to you among you. Um, and you get to be our teachers today while we teach. That’s how it’s framed.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:46):
Like, what were you seeing in professional development or in that wasn’t happening amongst teachers? Like where, where are the gaps? Because it feels like so much of your work. You’ve just looked in such nuanced ways at how teachers can continue to grow and be more reflective of their own teaching. And I’m just kind of curious where that came from or where you’re seeing the landscape.

Elham Kazemi (12:10):
Yeah, that’s a good question. Well, I, oh, everything I know about, children’s thinking to Megan Frankie and the beautiful body of work called CGI, but, um, one of the things that we noticed, there’s so many great CGI workshops, and even like all the seminars and conference presentations and amazing things that you can design to have engaging work time for teach in, in professional development, outside of their classroom, people get super jazzed, you know, they get, um, uh, they have meaningful experiences, but to contextualize that back into their classrooms with their own students is like where, where often I would see like, wait, the same group of teachers I just saw in my classroom or in either in math methods or in this PD seminar, or even myself, like noticing, like I have seen and thought about stuff a lot. But when I went to go do it with a particular group of kids, holy moly was that so hard. And I saw all kinds of new complexities that I didn’t anticipate. And if I were just left to my own devices, I might very easily say, whew, this seems a little too hard.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:21):
Right,

Elham Kazemi (13:22):
Right. And that’s the thing that I always hated. I was like, oh, if only we had, or you, or if you watched somebody do a demo lesson and you saw something that was like, kind of cool that you wish you had done afterwards. I often this happened in reflections. I wish we had, because we weren’t allowed to interrupt each other during teaching. Cuz somehow that would be rude or that would undermine the teacher’s authority. But that’s only the way we frame it. If we say actually we’re all capable people. So a question we ask ourselves during instruction doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing. It means actually we’re thinking together then the interruptions aren’t about undermining authority. They’re about thinking together.

Dan Meyer (14:04):
There’s a performative aspect to a lot of teaching. Like the like teaching feels like a performance and you don’t, the movie’s playing or there’s a play that’s going on. It feels like inappropriate to interrupt that in any way. Cause the performance is going and I, I love what this that’s. I love what this idea does to kind of, to redefine teaching is not a performance, but this, this co-constructed thing. Or if it’s a performance, it’s a performance, the stars, all of us, like we’re all a part of the cast and always a it’s always the dress rehearsal.

Elham Kazemi (14:30):
<laugh> it is like the dress rehearsal. Although some of my brilliant colleagues with backgrounds in drama and theater, Sarah Kavanaugh and Holly GU and Elizabeth dure, they actually were at a meeting together. And they talked about how this like breaks the fourth wall, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, which is out of theater, um, where the performer speaks to the audience, you know, I know you’re there and I have something to say to you. Yep. And I was like, well, we should, why can’t we do that in teaching? So we actually wrote a little paper, um, that’s called breaking the fourth wall as a way. That’s so cool as a metaphor for understanding and reframing what these interruptions could meet. Cuz we often get people when we about this for academic audience who say like, aren’t you using the children and what are the children gonna do while you just pause? Are they supposed to freeze? And uh, you know, while you talk about them, but it’s not really that it’s like, Hey students, we’re here because of you. So shouldn’t, we try to involve you and are decision making. To some extent, it’s not like we don’t know what we’re doing, but we’re doing things because we wanna advance your learning.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:40):
I mean, I still remember the first time I did a teacher time out and it, it was, I, it was breaking the four, it was this like, okay, you’re gonna see what happens, kids like, look at my, my tap dances stopped. And you’re you mean like, you know, whoa, wait a second. And I think it is about how you frame it. Right? It’s a celebration of their thinking and you, you use the term ambitious teaching and it, to me that is such a joyful way to think about it.

Elham Kazemi (16:06):
It is risky. And you would never say anything to shame any student, no. Or to shame your colleagues. Clearly it’s not a about that kind of discussion. Right. And they’re so brief. They’re like, it, it seconds. It’s not like you’re wasting time. You’re actually trying to understand what’s happening here. And I’ve just had so many instances where something goes on. Um, like we were doing a growing patterns task in a classroom and the student built the fourth term and they built stuff that did not follow the pattern. And I was so confused. I, I just didn’t understand like what was going on. And one of the kids said, well, if you, if you did follow the pattern, that’s not her words. But you know, she’s like, well, if we built it this way, that would be too obvious. Because if you just, if you saw that and you’re like, oh, that lesson failed.

Elham Kazemi (16:59):
Now we, our kids don’t understand what patterns are. We did it. Like, we gotta pause here and we gotta say, and we’re like, well, what do you mean? Can you say more about that? And basically what they said is that, um, well, first of all, they’re, they’re right. A pattern could change at any time, but it’s like, it would be more interesting if they, they knew how many cubes it would take for the fourth term that it would be nine, but they’re like, Hey, let’s rearrange that nine in some cool new ways. <laugh> cause that’s more interesting. It was like more interesting to them if, if they didn’t keep the pattern. So like, you kind of had to wrestle with that in the moment <affirmative> with them. And that’s how they can actually be partners with you in the teacher, timeout.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:40):
Right. That’s making it about them and their learning. It’s not about that. It’s not about your performance and like looking all shiny and, and I’ve got it all together and I know exactly how this lesson’s gonna go. It that’s so interesting.

Elham Kazemi (17:53):
And sometimes you pause and like some cuz somebody else who’s watching is noticing something about what the kids are doing. And while you’re, if you’re happen to be the person who’s upfront at the time leading, you’ve got so many things going on in your head that some times the person who’s just been sitting on the rug with the kids mm-hmm <affirmative> has noticed something. And they’re like, can I ask something right now? And that’s a great teacher timeout too. Mm. Because they’re interrupting you cuz they’re like, I think I, I wanna see what kids will say. If we ask this question next and those moments have been like amazing because someone has noticed something that another person hasn’t in the room and it’s been very helpful to illuminate how kids are processing something or what two ideas they could connect. That would be really powerful based on what we were hoping to learn that day or do with the kids that day.

Dan Meyer (18:47):
It’s like you have a bonus brain attached to you there in the room. Sounds really powerful. I wonder a couple about the student experience of this. I’m imagine if I was a student in the room and I heard the two teachers like kind of pause, take this time out and like talk about how interesting my thinking was like behind my back a little bit, like trying to strategize about something interesting. I had said, I just imagine I would, I would feel very good about like, that would be a very positive experience for me. Um, but I’m just curious, can you speak to how students reacted when they’re,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:16):
You mean, if you had been a student in the class and you saw two teachers conferring about your work?

Dan Meyer (19:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Like I, my classmates had of thing that was like, it, it kind of like was so novel that it stymied the teachers and then they like had to pause and like talk about what are we doing? Oh, I don’t know. I can imagine that’d be like know a fun feeling. Maybe I just tell more about me than about the kids, but

Elham Kazemi (19:35):
<laugh> it points to like, how would you go about starting to do this work? Right. Because one is you do, you do have to tell kids, Hey, I’m here with so and so and so, and so, and so, and so it might be just two of you. It might be five of you. It might be more and you know how we’ve been working on X thing in class? Well, today we wanted to try this new thing and, but we’re not sure how it’s gonna go and we need, we need your feedback. Right. So here’s something that might happen. We might pause you, you, I mean, you really do directly tell the kids to do that. And then we’re gonna ask you how it felt and we’re gonna share those feelings with one another. So you do that, you do a little exit card or you,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:19):
How, what felt the pause or how,

Elham Kazemi (20:22):
How, yeah. How did it feel that, how did this lesson go or how did a lesson, how did it feel when you heard, you know, ALM and Dan talk to each other, doing this lesson and they might say, Hey, it’s cool. It’s fun. Kids have definitely chimed in, in like, if we ask a question like, should we do this next or this, somebody will pipe in and say, do that, you know, do this thing. Instead. If, if you kind of pipe in to say, can I ask a question? They just turn to you and look at you and answer your question. Right. So, and we always thank them and we just like pump it up. Right? Like this is so cool because this is all about you. And usually when you say today, you’re gonna be our teachers, especially the little kids. They like get all giggly. Totally.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:02):
Right.

Elham Kazemi (21:04):
Love it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:05):
You know, you, you were sharing about this really unique situation, which I wish it wasn’t as unique where you had the whole school involved, but how did that happen? And what if you don’t have the whole school involved? What if it’s just me in my grade level, who’s like, I kind of wanna try this, but what

Elham Kazemi (21:22):
<laugh>, I think you could start with your, a peer in your school or a colleague in your school. Yeah. I mean, it’s a little seed, right. And it’s a little seed and then you could make it grow. I also believe in starting small and growing, cuz you do have to invite people into a different way of thinking about what it means to learn together. So you need to experience it, um, in order to believe it.

Dan Meyer (21:49):
Yeah. It feels like we would not want to write off any student as like, oh, they just don’t wanna learn. I think a lot of, a lot of us just like don’t buy that, that there’s other reasons why people need that. A teacher shouldn’t like shouldn’t, that’s not true of students that they have been told they can’t learn or there’s various circumstances the same. I, I suppose the same as like should be true is true of teachers. Like no teacher doesn’t want to learn more about teaching is at least a helpful Axiom to use, to approach the work of teacher growth. And so maybe they, yeah, maybe I feel like I’m the only person in my school who wants to do this, but perhaps that’s not actually true. Perhaps it’s just a matter of creating an imagination or the right kind of enticement or I don’t know what, um, but to start small and grow from there makes a lot of sense.

Elham Kazemi (22:32):
I feel now, like it would be weird and a lot harder for me to invite someone to just come in and watch me teach and sit quietly in the back when I don’t know anything about what they’re thinking and wait until afterwards to get their opinion.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:46):
Oh yes.

Elham Kazemi (22:47):
I would be much more willing to co-plan with someone so that we were both on the same page about what we were trying to do and then when you’re in the classroom with me. So that’s the other thing that’s important cuz I don’t think you can just be in the classroom together and I, you know, interrupt each other’s teachers, if you haven’t planned together, cuz you do have to have some common understanding of what are we trying to do here? Oh the

Dan Meyer (23:10):
Intent here.

Elham Kazemi (23:11):
Yeah. So I would definitely say don’t just show up in each other’s classroom and start interrupting each other. <laugh> if you don’t know what the heck is going on. Yeah.

Dan Meyer (23:21):
Yeah. I, I know that’s directed at one person on this call in particular. I hear that.

Elham Kazemi (23:25):
I know who we’re talking about, but you know, I would be way more intimidating for me if I was trying to do a three act task and Dan just came to watch me do it <laugh> and he hadn’t planned with me. He didn’t know why I selected that task. I had no opportunity to talk to him. Then it would be, Hey Dan, would you just like do this with me? Let’s think through this. Why would you do this then? What, what have you normally done? Oh, okay. Why have you done that? Right. And then to like, okay, let’s try it together. Um, and then, and then along the way, if I have questions, you’re there with me. So sometimes there is someone more experience like if right. And sometimes you’re both just like, I just don’t have that much experience with this. I’m learning this for the first time.

Elham Kazemi (24:04):
Right. And the beauty of the math ed community, whether it’s on Twitter or is that we’re kind of pretty accessible to each other. Right. So if I read something and I have a question about it, you bet I’m gonna reach out to the author <laugh> and say, I’ve been thinking about your work and this is what’s been coming up for us. Can you? So like, it definitely happened with hands down conversations. We tried it in the learning lab and we just couldn’t figure out like that. How do you intercede, like into the hands down conversation cuz the kids are supposed to have a conversation. So we had to like give Kaia and her co-author a few specific examples so they could help our thinking so that we could try it again. Right. And make it better. And I think that is, is what it means to be learning in community is that you use the resources more broadly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:52):
That’s a beautiful reminder too. And it also helps me feel a little better about all the messages I’ve sent you. Like what does this mean? Can you help me with this?

Elham Kazemi (24:59):
<laugh> I mean, that just makes you feel alive. <laugh> I think

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:06):
So. I think P part of the beauty of you talking about starting small is that it does give those of us who maybe aren’t seeing that those opportunities for collaboration reflected in our school culture, it gives us kind of some hope for like, wait, don’t just like, think you can’t start. I, how do you, how do you see, how do you see it growing? Or, or do you think like if you could magically <laugh> like wave your wand and, and create some shifts around, around, uh, the culture where folks are feeling isolated or maybe don’t feel like they have the needs to do this work. What could that look like?

Elham Kazemi (25:51):
Yeah. What could that look like? So time, like we need some imagination around the use of time in schools and I have seen some really amazing opportunities where teachers get to co-teach, which means that they really have to co-plan when, um, there’s a break in a regular school session and there’s like an intercession or like a, like an elective that, um, that doesn’t, I haven’t seen it happen a lot in public schools, but I have seen it happen a lot in independent schools where they’ll have like, stop, stop the presses. It’s like a drop everything and read, but it’s like a drop everything and do an R arts week. And then all the kids in the school get shuffled. So they into multiage groupings and the teachers get to plan something special for like the week. But you could start with like a day, which would at least get you to plan something together and try to teach together and be just in each other’s spaces. And I think that might be kind of an interesting way to start where you have to like mess with the schedule somehow. Cuz the schedule is the beast in schools

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:59):
Is kind of the first step. Like we are going to create a shared activity, a shared instructional goal, a shared like where do I start?

Elham Kazemi (27:09):
What, where do you start? I mean, there’s so many good books. We all read, start with something that grabs your imagination. That you’re like, if I got to do this in my class, I’d be so jazzed. And I think my kids would love it. Why would they love it? You know, whatever it is. There’s so many good ideas that people are instantly blogging about publishing, um, slow reveal graphs. I love those two. I have like all these things. I was like, I would love to try these out, but I, I gotta do them with somebody cuz I need a sounding board about like how, what does it mean to do it well? And what does it mean to just do it at the surface level and do it a, you know, in a kind of a crappy way. And we don’t wanna do a crappy job. We wanna do a good job, but you have to start, you have to start sometimes in an awkward, crappy way. Like, you know, and get past that stage. Cause often we try a bunch of stuff, eh, and then we drop it. But like you gotta work on it to make it really

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:58):
Good. And if you’ve already tried it and it didn’t go so well it’s, this could be an invitation, like, you know, it doesn’t mean give up on the idea. It means like, Hey let, let’s let’s collaborate. Let’s you know, come into my class. Let’s co plan this.

Elham Kazemi (28:10):
So I would challenge people to think about the schedule. <laugh> try to do something just a little bit different. You know, like when we do learning labs, people are like, well, how do you do that? And there’s no money for it. Actually. We just use our money in a slightly different way to make or that everybody four people get a sub, which I know right now, sub shortages is crazy, crazy, but then combine your classes or do something different. Yeah. You know, um, involve people differently somehow in your, in your school environment to get that time,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:43):
Really see this as a priority. This is a, this is there’s is intense value in this time to collaborate. Yeah.

Elham Kazemi (28:51):
Yeah. There’s so many side benefits for, I think for kids and teachers when you’re able to do this.

Dan Meyer (28:58):
Yeah. You’ve heard of folks. Uh, usually our, our math teacher challenge, our lounge challenge has been, uh, pedagogical in nature or a new CU. And uh, this is a different kind of one. This is, uh, go, go be a Rabel Razr go Rouse rabble at your, uh, front office and figure out the right way to get some funding or some time or shuffle a master schedule in such a way that you have collaboration, time to plan to co-teach to interrupt one another and uh, let us know how it goes. We are super excited and super interested in all of that. Thank you, uh, Elham for being with us here today and sharing all of your wisdom about how teachers grow.

Elham Kazemi (29:36):
Thanks for reminding me. You too loved

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:38):
It. We’re never done learning. We’re never done learning. Nope.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:44):
Aha. Thank you so much for joining us in the lounge. I think all of us have sat through effective and ineffective professional learning sessions and just helping us to envision of how this can truly help PD can truly transform our classrooms. It is it’s exciting. It’s exciting. And I think we’ve all learned a lot from our conversation. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And don’t forget, you can connect with us in the lounge on Facebook at math teacher lounge or on Twitter at MTL show. Let’s keep this conversation going. Keep it going. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Everybody. <silence>.

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What Elham Kazemi says about math

“ When children thrive, teachers thrive. So what does it mean for us to thrive if we are focused on our kids’ experiences at school?”

– Elham Kazemi

Professor of Mathematics Education, University of Washington

Meet the guest

Elham Kazemi is a professor of mathematics education at the University of Washington. She studies how strong professional communities develop in schools and how schools can be organized so teachers learn from and with their students. This work is informed by equity-oriented research on organizational learning, children’s mathematical thinking, and classroom practice.  She is co-author with Allison Hintz of Intentional Talk, which focuses on leading productive discussions in mathematics. She also edited Choral Counting and Counting Collections with Megan Franke and Angela Turrou, which focuses on the importance of counting from preschool to 5th grade.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S3 – 05. Developing an asset orientation with Lani Horn

Math Teacher Lounge podcast featuring Lani Horn, a professor at Vanderbilt University, on developing an asset orientation.

In this episode, math education professor Lani Horn shares with us what it means to have an asset orientation towards students, contrasting it with a deficit orientation, and helping Bethany and Dan understand the many ways students experience one or the other. Their conversation hit both high notes and low notes and included a challenge that Bethany and Dan both found extremely valuable for helping a teacher develop an asset orientation towards their students.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:03)

Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge, folks. My name is Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:09):

We’re so excited to be here with you folks and with our guest today, tackling big questions about mathematics. I wanna ask Bethany first though: Bethany, it’s been kind of a challenging couple of years for those of us in education, near education, just in life in general, of course. But I woke up this morning and the sun was out; the weather was perfect and crisp here in Oakland; and I found myself feeling optimistic, a sense of hopefulness. And I was wondering to myself, “What is Bethany feeling hopeful about in math education right now?” What’s got you juiced up a little bit?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:40):

I gotta say, that optimism, Dan, look at that! I can actually feel the sunshine just pouring through the microphone! So I thank you for asking. What am I feeling optimistic about in math education? Hmm. OK, this is gonna sound a little bit cop-out-y, but I have been so completely jazzed about not only our podcast, but the conversations that I’ve been seeing circulating in other math podcasts that are out there around curriculum, around new books coming out. It just feels like despite overwhelm, despite exhaustion, that most teachers really do love learning. And so there’s like that kernel. And so I just feel like there’s books on my shelf I wanna read; there’s podcasts in the queue I wanna listen to; and summertime is the best, best time to do it.

Dan Meyer (01:39):

People still feel hungry out there for learning. They know the importance of the craft and its impact on students. And, yeah, people are tired, but also it is so cool to see people still jazzed about learning more about how to teach students more effectively. Me, I’m excited right now, I have a very specific excitement right now, which is that today we announced that Desmos, where I work, and Amplify, our sponsor, are no longer gonna be two separate things. That we are joining together. That I, and all these people who have done so much work over the last 10 years developing digital math technology, we’re gonna go and work inside of Amplify as a division called Desmos Classroom. And we’re so excited that…what we cracked, I think, at Desmos, is a way of thinking about how teachers and their tools—computers, for instance—interact with students in math. And I love what we did there. But we never really cracked the question of, “How do you support entire school systems in taking up these ideas and tools?” And Amplify has really done that. So I’m super-excited to partner up there. That’s what I’m optimistic about and happy about.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:40):

Congratulations! That’s a huge transition, and I’m just so excited about the amazing work that both Amplify and Desmos do. But then, the idea of Desmos being in more classrooms? Those tools being available for more students? With the reach? I mean, I’m just excited! It’s a big day, Dan.

Dan Meyer (03:00):

Thank you. Yes, exciting day. And I’m excited about also about our guest we’re bringing on today. How’s that for a segue? I’ll be excited to hear what our guest is excited about in math education. I just wanna say that what our guest, Lani Horn, Professor Lani Horn, has exposed us to is this idea of an asset orientation and its importance. And I do think I’m not over-exaggerating or overstating to say that the idea of an asset orientation towards students and their thinking has been possibly the most transformative idea for me in the last five years of being an educator. And adopting it has led to my favorite lessons, my favorite teaching experiences, my favorite relationships with students. I say all that—you know, I don’t wanna gas things up too much; is that too high of a bar here to have expectations? But it really has been tremendous! And Lani Horn gave a talk several years ago called “An Asset Orientation Is Everything,” which really changed the game up for me. And Bethany watched it as well. So that’s why I’m so excited to have on the person who gave that talk. And who’s done so much research around what an asset orientation offers students and teachers. So we’re bringing on today Lani Horn, who is a professor of mathematics education at Vanderbilt University, Peabody College, who centers her research on ways to make authentic mathematics, ambitious math teaching, accessible to students and teachers, particularly those who have been historically marginalized by our educational system. I think Lani has just a beating heart for students, yes, but also really respects the work of teaching in ways I think are so needed and sometimes uncommon in the world of math-education research. So Lani, thank you so much for coming on and joining us in the Lounge.

Lani Horn (04:41):

Thanks for having me.

Dan Meyer (04:44):

We would love to know what you are excited about and optimistic about right now in the world of mathematics education. What’s got you a little bit gassed up?

Lani Horn (04:52):

Up, gassed up? Hmm. Let me reframe it, ’cause I don’t know if I’m gassed up, but I’m cautiously hopeful that maybe that in the wake of the interrupted learning that’s been sort of widespread during the pandemic that maybe we’ll get some traction around more strategies for teaching in heterogeneous classrooms. Which I think every classroom is, to varying extents: a heterogeneous classroom. And I was talking with a colleague the other day about this idea of hmm, maybe modeling would be a really cool thing to focus teachers on. Doing some more mathematical modeling across the grade levels. Because it just seems like there’s a lot of opportunities for kids to kind of catch up on ideas and understandings that they may not have fully grasped because of interrupted learning, interrupted schooling. But also with room to engage in a lot of ideas. So we were playing with that and I was like, “Gosh, that’d be pretty cool if people took that on more broadly.” ‘Cause I don’t think that there’s been enough conversations about meaningful differentiation in that kind of way, like at the level of curriculum. So I would love to see an upsurge in interest in that kind of stuff, ’cause that’s a big place where I have a lot of passion, so I’m ready! I’m ready for people to ask questions about that. And actually it’s really very, very, very closely related to the topic today of having an asset orientation towards students.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:34):

First of all, I’m so excited to have you on Math Teacher Lounge, have you in the Lounge, and get to talk to you, because when Dan sent me this talk, my first thing was, “Oh, I think I know what asset orientation is and looks like.” You know, you kind of hypothesize about what you think it’s going to be. And then you started talking and I’m like, “Wait, wait, why am I just hearing this now?” So I thought I knew what it was, but really I felt like there was so much to unpack. And I would just love for you to share with our listeners, in case they are like, “Oh, asset orientation, I know what that is. I’ve got it. My students have got it.” What is it? And why does it matter so much to our teachers?

Lani Horn (07:19):

The most obvious point is that asset is the opposite of deficit, right? And we know that deficit thinking is very harmful to students. That there’s a real teacher-expectation bias that that kids pick up on, that we communicate indirectly to students and that impacts their learning and their ability to meet our academic expectations and, other expectations in classrooms. So an asset orientation is looking for students’ strengths and trying to work from those strengths as a basis for your teaching.

Dan Meyer (07:54):

So that’s a really fantastic starting spot there. And I think what’s initially surprising to me about the research you cited in your talk, that is built around an asset orientation, is how…I think if you come at learning from a—I guess in research, they call a cognitivist frame, where learning happens when teachers say the right things that make a transfer from the teacher’s brain to the student’s brain. A lot of what you’re describing is very counterintuitive, I think. The asset orientation describes a teacher’s kind of subtle disposition. It’s not what, like what they’re saying exactly. It’s what they communicate in the subtext and the body language, that all emanates from some perspective on students and the idea that that filters down somehow and students pick up on that—like a smell in the air—and that determines a lot of their learning, I think is one part of your talk and the research that I thought was really surprising. How close is that to like how this actually works? And can you add to that description or pivot it a little bit?

Lani Horn (08:54):

Expansion of the sort of cognitive framing of teacher and student interaction…part of what’s really hard about developing and maintaining an asset orientation is that schools are organized in ways that rank and sort children. And so when we are just using the everyday language of schooling, sometimes we’re injecting these preconceived deficit notions of students into our talk and into how we’re thinking about, interpreting, looking at students. So not only is this interruption a sort of a cognitive lens on teacher-student interaction, but it’s really looking at how the social environment is setting teacher-student interaction to take on certain kinds of framings.

Dan Meyer (09:44):

This is what I mean about Lani having such a generous frame towards teachers and the work of teaching. I wonder, though, if you could help us make concrete how an asset and deficit orientation might play out in a hypothetical classroom interaction.

Lani Horn (10:00):

Sure. A really commonplace example is a teacher has a group of students. It’s October or November. So there’s already been a few assessments. And that gives the teacher an idea who the strong students are and who the struggling students are. And they’re having a classroom conversation. And someone who hasn’t performed well, a kid who hasn’t performed well on those assessments—the teacher poses a question. A kid who hasn’t performed well on the assessments is called on. And they sort of hesitate in formulating their response. And the teacher with that lens of “this is a struggling student” then may have to make a decision: “Do I persist? Do I support this kid? Do I help them formulate an answer? Do I try to draw out their thinking anyway? Or do I move on to a kid who is academically performed better in my class?” And I would say that a lot of teachers in that situation would very understandably say, “OK, I get it. You’re not a strong math student. You’re not confident in my class. I’m gonna move on because I need to get through this lesson to somebody who I know is gonna provide me with a correct answer.” And they do it also out of, sometimes, a sense of care, of not wanting to put that student on the spot. However, part of what is another unintended result of making that choice is instead of trying out that student’s thinking, listen to their sort of, maybe, hesitant answer, and trying to find the kernel in it that maybe could be supported and amplified, that kid then loses an opportunity to have their idea be a part of the whole class’s mathematical conversation. Completely common, completely understandable kind of interaction that I see all the time.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:52):

That feels so huge. And that I can actually picture that happening.

Lani Horn (11:56):

Of course. We’ve all seen it. We’ve all done it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:58):

We’ve all seen it and done it. And I think it’s so key that you mention often it’s from a place of care. Of “I want that student to—look, I called on you; you’re a part of the conversation; you’re a part of our community.” But with it, I brought all of that other information that I think I have about that kiddo. Right? And how I think they’re struggling or navigating the question. And “Here, I’ll help by…” You know? But what I immediately thought of is how much the other students also pick up on that, right?

Lani Horn (12:36):

Of course.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:36):

I remember this time, this student in my class, a student who had struggled on some of the work we were doing, she came up and she shared her work. And then another student kind of like, it was almost like a strange little pat on the back, like, “Look at that! You did it!” And like really said it in a tone of…like, you’re 5, where did that come from?? How had I set up that student to be—I really had to step back and say, “What role have I played in making this student seem like she wasn’t capable of what she had just solved?” It was such a learning moment for me. Because I don’t think teachers do it maliciously, you know, or even consciously.

Lani Horn (13:33):

Absolutely.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:34):

And it was so huge.

Lani Horn (13:36):

Thanks for sharing that, Bethany, wow.

Dan Meyer (13:38):

Even in your description, Lani, you mentioned how the need to keep the class moving to fit, again, a policy that teachers didn’t impose, that we have 45 minutes and way too many standards to cover in that many days…I wanna ask you about growth mindset. It feels like every last teacher on earth has finally got the memo about growth mindset. We all know it’s the good mindset and that the bad one is fixed mindset. And we have the posters. The posters have been distributed. <laugh> A nationwide mobilization.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:07):

I automatically pictured the posters.

Lani Horn (14:09):

<laugh> Of course.

Dan Meyer (14:11):

We’ve got the posters up, people! So we’re good! And now here comes asset orientation, which has some of the similar kinds of happy feelings, good vibes, about teaching and students and learning. So I was just wondering if you could help us kind of differentiate those two kinds of concepts.

Lani Horn (14:28):

I think that an asset orientation is something you’re never done cultivating. I think it’s an ongoing stance that you have to constantly reset and reexamine. And it is recognizing the links to the social categories that students inhabit, the identities that they bring with them, the bodies that they live in, the different abilities and disabilities. And it’s actually a place where, when you really engage this work in a meaningful way, I think it has the potential to make you kind of a better human being. Because you have to constantly say, “Gosh, why did I do that? What is it that my expectation was? Why am I having such a hard time with this particular student, finding something that they’re smart at, something that they’re really good at?” ‘Cause that’s the question. That’s the asset orientation question. You look at your students and you say, “What is it that they are smart about? How are they smart? I understand that school values this; I understand that my assessments value this; but what are they smart at? And how could I bring that into the meaningful work of my classroom?” Which is a very hard question sometimes.

Dan Meyer (16:03):

Yeah. Oh, so many thoughts here. Like one, I just feel like it’s such a value for teachers, for anyone, to have a big, clear, unanswerable-in-your-lifetime question to motivate your work in teaching. If you don’t have that, then the job is too small, basically. So I love that it’s a question that offers ways to dig in every single day. Every interaction is an opportunity, and it will never be answered. That’s wonderful. I love how I just feel like there’s…sometimes we have conversations with Lounge guests, Bethany, where it really gets out of the realm of the school. And it starts to creep on in to the personal life. It starts to creep on in to the spiritual life. And I find, with this sort of idea—the value of a human being—I feel when I have an asset orientation towards my key relationship in my life—my best friends, my spouse, all these things—that that’s an indication to me of a really big and valuable idea. And the question of the difference between growth mindset and asset orientation, I wonder if it’s relevant here that a growth mindset is a concept that was studied and originated by an education psychologist, Carol Dweck, and you are someone who operates with a social-cultural frame that considers more than the student’s mind in the unit of a student, but like what is going on and what are Bethany’s students perceiving in that moment you described, Bethany, that was you and a student, but everyone kind of feels what’s going on. I wonder if that’s a useful differentiator here. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Lani Horn (17:30):

Yes. I do think that the anthropological perspective that I take—where I really look at the cultural sources of these perspectives and these expectations and narratives, I would say, about who can learn math—are really, really important. And they’re part of what sometimes becomes invisible in the classroom. Though those are a really, really important part of the ongoing work of developing an asset orientation. And of course, I come to it from my own personal experience. I was an undergraduate math major. And sometimes by the time I got to my senior seminars, I was the only woman in the room. And you know, I felt that. I felt the stigma of low expectations. I felt the missed opportunities to dig deeper because people were trying to protect me from being wrong and embarrassing myself. And so on. So it’s personal. And of course we see this applying to other social categories as well. We know that the bias is not just against women in math, but people of color, against people with different kinds of abilities, and so on. So I think that that’s why it’s sort of this ongoing personal work. And I think, too, that we will inevitably in the course of committing ourselves to this find students who challenge us, especially in our society right now, the way things are so fractured. You know, what if you have a student in your classroom who holds political views that you find really odious? How do you find a way to engage that student in a way that respects what they do have to offer to your class, while also making sure that the class is a safe place for everybody? I mean, those are really, really complex dynamics to manage. And, you know, I can talk a lot about that too.

Dan Meyer (19:30):

What a job; what a job. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:33):

I was really struck, too, because I feel, like Dan said, we’ve gotten the posters. And not to undermine the power of growth mindset—I think it has impacted many, many students and communities—but it sometimes stops there. The conversation stops there. Well, you know, we have a chant we do every day. We have the poster on the wall. My students have a growth mindset. And I think what I really appreciated in your talk, and as I’ve learned about your work, is the invitation to teachers to be vulnerable and to really look at… I do feel like even sharing that story, you put a certain amount of vulnerability of, like, have I failed in some way? But I care about my students. I’m committed to cultivating a safe space. So I guess something I’m really curious about is: what do you think needs to happen or needs to be possible for teachers to further cultivate an asset orientation? Because even the ability to pause and to be reflective, sometimes it doesn’t seem possible. So I think it’s beyond just the teacher, but in the school, the district…what are some things you feel?

Lani Horn (20:49):

Are you letting me be the queen of designing schools? ‘Cause that’s a job I’ve always wanted! <laugh> OK. So if I were the queen of designing schools, teachers would have fewer student contacts.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:04):

Say more.

Lani Horn (21:05):

When I taught high school, I had sometimes…I think the most I got was 180 student contacts a day.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:12):

Wow.

Lani Horn (21:13):

So when you’re looking at 180 kids a day, that is just sort of a capacity issue. How am I supposed to really look meaningfully at each of those individual people and find what’s valuable and strong and smart about each of them? I think that in the U.S., teachers have more instructional time than any other developed country. We need more planning time. Because that’s an opportunity to consult with colleagues. Sometimes when we encounter students where we do have that personal struggle of, “Oh, gosh, I am really having a hard time connecting with you and seeing your strengths,” wouldn’t it be great to be able to go to their last year’s teacher or their English teacher or some other teacher and say, “Can you tell me about your experiences with this student? Because I’m really wanting to connect and I’m having trouble.” And wouldn’t that be wonderful if we had resources to do that? The other thing I would do is I would get rid of a lot of the meaningless accountability, which I have found has only amplified sort of the sorting, and sort of put a technocratic veneer over kids’ deficit thinking about their own selves. Kids get a printout saying that they’re “below basic” and you say, “Hey, that was a really good idea!” And they don’t believe you ’cause they have this printout that puts them in a different category, so there’s no way they could be good at math. So I think we’ve really done a lot of harm in the annual testing of kids in that way. Especially with the individual reporting. And often the metrics we’re using to do that are not designed to be disaggregated to the individual level. So we have a lot of measurement problems. I’m kind of going back to your question before, Dan, about what’s the difference between growth mindset and an asset orientation. I think that sometimes—I don’t think this is the way Carol Dweck intended it, but I think sometimes—and I’ve seen her rebut the way it’s been used in schools—but I think sometimes the way that growth mindset has been used in schools kind of brings it back to an individual problem: “We don’t have unequal funding in our school system! We don’t have systemic racism! We don’t have childhood poverty and malnourishment! It’s just about having the right mindset!” And we know that all of those other things have a huge impact on who engages in school and who’s able to get access to schooling and the formal learning that goes on there. And so there’s a little bit of an erasure that happens in the way that growth mindset has been taken up, and putting the onus back on students and teachers as opposed to going, “Wow, we’re in this system where the cards are stacked a certain way, and I have to somehow navigate that as a teacher and figure out how to hold you up in a system that is trying to push you down.” Which is a really different kind of job than to put a poster on my wall and do a chant in the morning.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:39):

And I’m wondering, if you were looking at how you would hope that asset orientation gets brought into the classroom…it’s not another poster, right? What do you think would really help make some meaningful change around the way we think about that and teachers and systems take that on?

Lani Horn (24:59):

So I think that the important thing is helping teachers develop a vocabulary for recognizing students’ mathematical strengths in particular. Recognizing a strength is not, “Wow, you did really neat work!” or “You have really nice handwriting!” Those are not authentically mathematical strengths, right? So I try to think about—ah, for color theorem, “How cool! What a great way to be systematic!” You know, that being systematic, developing a good representation, asking a good question, asking the next “what if,” all of these are profoundly mathematical ways of thinking. And there’s more—I’m just giving you a few examples—that are not always recognized in classrooms that are built around quick and accurate calculation. Right? When that is the most valued form of smartness, kids who can do all these other great things, like, “Wow, that that is such a clear way of explaining the connection between that graph and that equation! I love it. That helps me see what’s happening every time that variable increases.” You know? I love when kids do that! That’s not quick and accurate calculation, right? One of the most heartbreaking things I’ve seen sometimes is teachers doing a really good job of pumping kids up and helping them feel mathematical and seeing their mathematical strengths in the everyday lessons…but then they get a standard assessment and are told they’re a C student. How do you support the messaging you’re doing in your teaching and in your interactions so that it aligns with assessment? And this is where the sorting mechanism of school kind of inhibits some of the ways that we really should be valuing kids in a way that would support their ongoing learning and their own particular flourishing.

Dan Meyer (26:59):

I love how you describe this whole process as a career-long trajectory, how one does not ever finish creating an asset orientation in oneself. I’m wondering if there is some way for teachers who are listening to start to experience, to enter into that kind of feedback loop, that experience, of what an asset orientation offers them and their students. Do you have some way for us to start digging in here? A challenge, if you will?

Lani Horn (27:24):

Yeah, sure. This is a process I learned from teachers I’ve worked with, so I did not make this up. It’s called a roster check. It’s where you take a roster of one of your classes, and you go through student by student and see if you can specifically name a way that that student is mathematically smart. And it’s a private exercise if you want it to be. And just sort of go through. And then for the students who you really struggle to name how they’re smart, step back and see if there’s some kind of a pattern. And when I’ve done this in PD, as an exercise, I’ve had teachers have some real light-bulb moments where they go, “Oh my gosh, I really don’t know the quiet girls in my classroom,” or “I really don’t know the multilingual learners in my classroom.” So they can sort of start to see a bias in who they’re interacting with and who’s been able to engage in ways that uncover what their unconscious bias might be. And sometimes it’s not unconscious bias. Sometimes it’s not necessarily a category like that. It’s just the kids who are more outspoken, the kids who are high achieving. It doesn’t have to necessarily be linked to an obvious social category. However, I do think that then what you can do with that list of kids who you don’t have a name for their strengths, is you can kind of take a couple of them a week and make that your project to really observe them a little more intentionally and a little more closely. Try mixing things up. Have a chat with them. Say, “Hey, so what do you like to do? What are the things that you like to do in the world? What are your hobbies?” So maybe you can start to get some insight that way. You can talk to other teachers. Most kids have something that they’re passionate about, something that animates them and wakes them up in the morning, and knowing that and finding ways to meaningfully tie that to their mathematical learning can be extremely powerful.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:35):

Lani. I love that idea, taking that time to reflect and allow yourself to be vulnerable as you take a look at your biases and how that’s impacting your classroom space. I have learned so much from our conversation. I know we’re just scratching the surface of the work that you do. So if folks want to learn more, want to continue engaging in these ideas, where can they find you, or where can they find more about your work?

Lani Horn (29:58):

I’m pretty active on Twitter. My handle is @ilana_horn. No “e” on that. And I’ve written a couple of books for teachers. One is called Motivated. Another is called Strength in Numbers. People can check those out.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:17):

I love it. For our listeners, we are thrilled to share this conversation with you, and we wanna hear how you take up this challenge: What do you uncover? What do you notice? What are you learning about an asset orientation? And you can share that by finding us on Twitter at @MTLshow, or you can also continue the conversation with us in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. We’re so excited to keep learning with you. And thanks for listening.

Lani Horn (30:42):

Bye! Thanks for having me.

Dan Meyer (30:44):

Bye, folks. Thank you.

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What Lani Horn says about math

“An asset orientation is looking for students’ strengths and trying to work from those strengths as a basis for your teaching. ”

– Lani Horn

Professor of Mathematics Education, Vanderbilt University Peabody College

Meet the guest

Lani Horn centers her research on ways to make authentic mathematics accessible to students, particularly those who have been historically marginalized by our educational system. Professor Horn focuses primarily on mathematics teaching in two ways. First, Professor Horn looks at classroom practices that engage the most students in high-quality mathematics. Second, Professor Horn views teaching as a contextually-embedded practice –  how school environments, communities, colleagues, and policies shape what is instructionally possible. All of this is unified through a pursuit to understand teacher learning as a situative phenomenon. Follow Professor Horn on Twitter.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S2-03: Building meaningful student connections in the science classroom

Promotional image for a podcast episode titled "Sharita Ware: Building meaningful student connections," featuring Sharita Ware and "Science Connections" branding.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with Indiana State Teacher of the Year, Sharita Ware, to talk about how to successfully build meaningful student connections in the science classroom. Sharita shares her journey from a corporate career to becoming Indiana’s 2022 Teacher of the Year, and her passion for creating project-based lessons for her students. Together, Eric and Sharita discuss how educators can teach students to love science content by building strong relationships, adding in other content areas, and supporting students’ imagination. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Sharita Ware (00:00):
I try to create that equal playing field where there’s nobody’s voice, that’s more important than anyone else’s and try to make them all feel that what they have to say is important.

Eric Cross (00:14):
Welcome to science connections. I’m your host Eric. My guest today is Sheta where Sheta is the 2022 Indiana state teacher of the year. And in her 10 year career, as an engineering and technology teacher, she has dedicated herself to helping students build knowledge and skills for high school and life. Beyond. In this episode, we discuss how she inspires her seventh and eighth grade students to build problem solving and critical thinking skills through hands on real world and collaborative projects. She is as humble as she is knowledgeable and through our conversation, it was easy for me to see why her students feel successful under her guidance. And now please enjoy my conversation with Sharita Ware.

Eric Cross (00:59):
Can I start off by saying congratulations on teacher of the year. Thank you for the state of Indiana. Um, that’s amazing. So I, I, I did watch, uh, your videos, uh, short interviews, and then you spoke, was it Purdue? Yes. You were there. And so, uh, to see if fellow seventh grade, eighth grade science teacher out there being celebrated, like I was so excited, so yeah, I wanted to congratulate you on that and, and just kind of talk to you about like your teaching journey and ask you, uh, maybe just kind of start off with your story about what brought you into, into the classroom, especially the middle school.

Sharita Ware (01:29):
Classroom. So what happened is when I was working in industry as an engineer and when my husband and I got married, we decided that I was gonna, um, stay home with the kids because, you know, we wanted, um, our influence to be greater on our kids than, you know, the people that would be watching them, you know, because they would ultimately spend more time with them than they would with us. And, and so, um, I stayed home and when my youngest was going to be going to kindergarten the next year, I was like, okay, what am I going to do? Cuz I really don’t necessarily feel like I need to stay at home. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but um, I knew going back to industry would be a challenge just because in my field, I, I was traveling a lot before I got married and had kids.

Sharita Ware (02:14):
And so I knew that that wouldn’t really be conducive to again, raising children. So I, I get this email, my inbox for Woodrow Wilson, teaching fellowship at Purdue. And they were just looking for people in stem fields to go into teaching. And I was like, okay. And it was a national search, you know, I filled out the application, we had to go in and do some sample teaching mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was picked as, as one of the, the teachers to go through the program. And I started off thinking I wanted high school. And the really cool thing about this, uh, program is that we had long observation periods at high school and at middle schools. And so we would go to a school and we’d stay there two or three weeks. And so it, it kind of gave you right. A little bit more insight to what happened on a daily basis. And after those observations, I was like, I like middle school better than I, uh, like high school. And so I just kind of went that direction and you know, the rest is history. So

Eric Cross (03:19):
I feel like our stories are similar because I went into teaching thinking I wanted to do high school because I like the maturity and you a little bit more sophistication, advanced things, but yes, middle school, I felt like I can, I could get them more upstream before and kind of help shape mm-hmm <affirmative> that experience for them? Because I feel like at middle school is really where they kind of decide like what they can do based on their experiences.

Sharita Ware (03:39):
I found in the middle school that the kids, I mean, they just, they clamor around you and they’re like, what are we doing today? You know? And they get so excited and, um, they’re, they’re just, I don’t know, I guess in some ways, just more hungry in the sense of like they’re willingness to, um, now sometimes they’re a little reluctant, but you know, their willingness just to try new things. And I think, um, my students really what I have found over the years that they have found a safe space and I hear the kids, you know, say to me so many times that, you know, it it’s safe. I feel, I feel safe in here. And, and it’s not something that in my mind I’m thinking about, oh, I need to make this a safe place. It’s just, I guess part of just who I am as a person has created this environment of, of safety and, and the kids recognize that, you know, I don’t play favorites. You know, everybody starts out mm-hmm, <affirmative> on equal footing. I, I don’t care what your backstory is. I don’t care how many times I see you in the hallway when I’m walking during my prep. You know, when you hit my room, I’m, I’m gonna treat you the same way on day one, that I treat everybody else.

Eric Cross (04:54):
You really understand how to build culture with, in, with your classroom, with your students. And, and you said they feel safe, but is there anything that you do that someone could like apply? And like you found that you’ve gotten a lot of just relational capital through doing these things, or is it just your personality? Like how, how do you build those connections?

Sharita Ware (05:12):
You know, growing up being a, a very quiet person. I, I think a lot of times my voice was ignored because I was the quiet kid in the back of the room. And oftentimes I became seen or heard because of my work, you know, in the beginning it was kind of like, oh, she’s just this quiet girl in the back of the room. And then, you know, the first essay was due or the first project was due. And then it was like, oh, you know, then you’re the person to be on, you know, people’s teams. And, and that, I don’t know, that always kind of bothered me because, you know, I’m thinking just because you’re not the loudest person in the room doesn’t mean that you don’t have something to say, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you just might not be talking all the time. You know? And, and so for my students, I just, I try to create that equal playing field where there’s, nobody’s voice, that’s more important than anyone else’s and try to make them all feel like that what they have to say, or what they have to contribute is, is enough, is good.

Sharita Ware (06:14):
Enough is important as…

Eric Cross (06:16):
It is, as it is. And there’s probably a lot of things that you do. But in addition to building these relationships, what do you do? Like how do you make your learning fun for students?

Sharita Ware (06:25):
I think, um, I’m also a little bit on the silly side. Um, we do a, a Barbie prosthetic leg project, and this was after trial and error of having the kids make full size prosthetic legs. And I try to make it as real world as possible, but with none of the children being amputee or, you know, having access to someone, it was really hard for them to really visualize what needed to happen. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, um, I found this Barbie that had a prosthetic leg and I was like, well, LA, so I just started collecting Barbies and chopping their legs off <laugh>. And so I have this jar of Barbie legs. And so, and I said, you’re gonna make prosthetic legs. And I lay this jar of legs on the counter and the kids are like, like they gasp and then they crack up and then they’re like, okay, this lady’s crazy. So…

Eric Cross (07:22):
That’s when you take off your scarf and there’s this necklace of just Barbie legs that are just around and you’re like, I’m a middle school teacher and they go, oh, okay. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. It’s totally fine. Is this a lesson that someone that you made up or is it something that you’ve re remixed? Is it something that someone could do if they looked it up anywhere?

Sharita Ware (07:38):
Um, so I think teach engineering has the, the full size leg that the kids make. And that’s where I initially got it from.

Eric Cross (07:47):
Is that the website teach engineering?

Sharita Ware (07:49):
Yes. And, um, I, in fact, I get lots of ideals from there. Um, and I, I always usually tweak them, but it’s, it’s one of those things that kind of gets your brain going. And so it was kind of a mixture of, uh, project lead the way gateway to technology and the teach engineering. And I think the project lead the way had us making like braces, uh, for, um, kids with, um, like cerebral palsy or, or something like that. And the kids did okay with that project. Uh, but I wanted to go just a little bit, uh, deeper with it because part of what I was wanting them to do is that context and that connection, that human connection, because for me, it’s not just enough for them to make a project. Uh, before we start this prosthetic leg, I read them a story out of a Scholastic magazine, and it’s a, a teenage girl that lost her leg in a boating accident.

Sharita Ware (08:42):
And she was super active, um, playing sports and running. And, and so I was, you know, trying to get the kids to, you know, make that connection, someone close to their age. Um, and then how it’s not, it’s, it’s more than about her physical healing. It’s also about her mental healing and how she had to, you know, talk to herself to say that she could, you know, recover and, and come back from this and still go on to do all of the things that she was doing before. Um, and in some ways it’s kind of cool because, um, you know, she has a running prosthetic, she has a, a swimming prosthetic, and she has her every day with the pain and toils prosthetic. So just trying to, you know, help them to see that it’s more than just the, you know, the biomedical mechanical engineering aspect of the project.

Sharita Ware (09:30):
And so they have to design for comfort. They have to design for, um, swelling. And then, um, they also can, if they, if they want to, they don’t have to, if they want to, they can create their own backstory. So when they get there, um, we have a day where they are introduced to their client, so they get to meet their Barbie and, and then they get to decide if they want a backstory and, and then do their research based off of that. So if it’s someone that was a runner, then they can design a prosthetic running blade. So just, they have lots of, uh, flexibility.

Eric Cross (10:04):
The, that aspect of adding the narrative. It does so much for like listening to it on the outside. It one, it adds this humanity to, you know, what can sometimes just feel like it may be cold, logical stem. We’re just, we’re just doing things. We’re fixing things. We’re, you know, we’re discovering things, but really the stem has value when we’re actually applying it to, to, to serve humanity or our ecosystem or whatever it is. There was a, a coding, uh, class I was doing with my students and I showed them this app called be my eyes. And it’s for people who are visually impaired and it pairs them with a volunteer. And when they call, and there’s a whole huge pool of volunteers and I’m one of them. And when my, when it happens in class, I answer and it uses the FaceTime. So the person who’s visually impaired is holding up their phone and you see what they see and you tell them and real time what’s happening.

Sharita Ware (10:54):
Oh, wow. That’s so cool.

Eric Cross (10:56):
These are, these were the things I think for students that the story, the, the human part of it, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it must bring in so many more students into engagement.

Sharita Ware (11:05):
Yeah. I, I feel like it does because I, I think, um, and, you know, along the journey, they kind of lose, um, they lose sight a little bit because, you know, they get out in the lab and they have access to all of these different materials. And I think, you know, truly making it, you know, project based for me is I try not to control the materials too much. Um, I try not to make it so wide that they just get lost, but I try to throw a few curve balls in there, you know, of, of materials that really don’t make sense to use, but they kind of think they make sense to use. Um, because the, the, the meat of it is that the prosthetic leg is a similar size of the original leg and that the, the knee functions. And so I don’t limit, and I grade them off of efficient use of materials.

Sharita Ware (11:59):
So, and that just throws them off because I think, well, how many Popsicle sticks can I use? And I’m like, you can use as many as you like, but remember, this is a prosthetic leg that, um, your Barbie, which is one six scale, um, is going to be wearing all day. So you could think that a Popsicle stick, if you chose to use a Popsicle stick is kind of like dragging around a two by four <laugh>, you know? So do, is that what you really want to use as your material? And some of the kids really think about it and saying, okay, I’m, I’ve got this aluminum rod, okay. This is probably what I would use for my bone structure, because it’s lightweight, but yet it is supportive. And then sometimes they come up with their own ideas in terms of materials, like one student brought in his, um, 3d doodle pin mm-hmm <affirmative> and he made joints and everything with this pin.

Sharita Ware (12:54):
And I’m, and I had delayed buying one, cause I’m like, I, how do you have control over that thing? Mm-hmm <affirmative> he brought that in and he did probably two or three iterations of it and, and got it to work where even the knee where it bit back 90 degrees, but it stopped. He made like, so that it didn’t bend forward. It blows my mind. I’m like so many UN unexpected things have, have happened just from my, um, teaching style. Now I did have, my first few years, I had a, a teaching coach, um, come in and, um, I asked her to come into my room because I just wanted to make sure because I was not a traditional teacher. She said, this classroom is amazing. And, and I think the one thing that she helped me with was, was purpose and consistency and the sense of making sure that with the standards that all of these cool things and ways of being, um, that I was doing in my classroom, that, that I kept it purposeful and intentional. So many times as educators, I know in having student teachers again, ask yourself the question, what is the big picture I want the kids to take away. And once you ask that question, then everything that you have them do will lead to that big picture. Well, it should lead to that big picture.

Eric Cross (14:22):
So it sounds like they’re, you’re starting with this end goal in mind and then kind of backwards planning to get there. Yeah. Do you think you would’ve been the same type of teacher if you would’ve gone straight from college into the classroom? No. And if, if, no, as you’re shaking your head, what do you think it is about? Cause I’ve been asking myself these questions, like just over the years, what is it about coming from industry and going into the classroom? Do you feel like, is how has that impacted you in how you teach?

Sharita Ware (14:45):
Well, I think it’s twofold cuz I was older. I already had three children. I think the combination for me, I think is I was already a mom and I had worked in industry. So the behavior aspect of kids and, and then having that real world experience. And I, I just feel like whether it’s in the classroom, um, marriage, kids, to me, it’s 90% relationship, you know, and the rest will work itself out. That’s, that’s just my, my take on it. But I, I feel like having kids, so some of the behavioral things I kind of was aware of, you know, and just learned many times just not to react to some of the things that they did.

Eric Cross (15:31):
Which is huge. Right. Especially in middle school is controlling your reactions.

Sharita Ware (15:35):
Yes. Cuz that’s what they want. You know? And, and I had this student last year as well. She’s brilliant. And so if she cannot wrap her mind around the purpose of what you’re doing and, and you’re pushing her to do something that she doesn’t think is necessary, mm-hmm <affirmative>, she kind of has these meltdowns. And, and so we just had this, you know, I don’t know, we just came to this understanding and it, and it works to control the meltdowns. I tried to make sure. And, and I used her as a gauge because I knew she wasn’t, she wasn’t getting upset because she didn’t understand. She didn’t understand the why mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I felt like if she got the why then so would everyone else. So when she, if she was okay with it, then I was like, okay, then I must have explained it well enough.

Sharita Ware (16:25):
And so in my mind that I really need to make sure they understand the, again, going back to that purpose <laugh> and intention, making sure that that is clear. And then I think that’s what gets lost. Sometimes mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, with us as teachers, we, we know where we want the kids to go and we want us to trust the process, you know, just do it because I said so, but sometimes, you know, empowering your children to under to understand the why, because that again is what allows them to be able to do bigger and greater things on their own. So on that next project comes along. They’re starting to tell you, well, first we need to make sure we understand what, um, we’re being asked to do to do. So we have to define the question. We have to make our driving question that will help us stay focused. And, and you’re just standing up there going, okay, now you don’t need me. I’ll go here and sit down. <laugh> so it’s, uh, it is really cool.

Eric Cross (17:28):
Now I’m thinking about my own kids. Like, do my students know the why behind the lesson we did today? It’s one area of growth that I wanna make sure I do this year with my students. And so I really appreciate that. So the, and you just hit on something that is, has been in the forefront of my mind lately and math and English as you know, tend to be prioritized in schools everywhere because it’s what state tested. And it’s what, you know, this is a whole other conversation, but I’ve been talking to math teachers frequently about one of the challenges that they experience or they’ve been telling me is that math is kind of taught. Like it’s just computational, you’re solving these problems, but it’s really separated from any real life application. A lot of times, you know, it’s pizza or gumballs or, or just fictional scenarios and students don’t perform well many times. And some of the reasons why is cuz just no connection. I don’t want to solve puzzles. Like it’s not my jam. Do you have any just inside or, or perspective on how math is, is taught in maybe a way that you think it would students would benefit more?

Sharita Ware (18:32):
You know how kids learn in elementary school, you’ve got this, the same teacher teaching all of the subjects. And so wouldn’t that be an awesome opportunity for you to have like these, these projects where I feel like you could, a class could legit work on the same project for a whole entire year. And so couldn’t the English be writing your persuasive letter to the mayor, asking him to do this or do that. And the process of doing that they’re, they’re, they’re writing with a purpose with a true purpose. Um, and then when they’re doing math, you know, they want, they want a new neighborhood park. So, you know, well how much is this gonna cost? Well, math, what size is it gonna be math? Let’s see what it looks like, art, you know, you just, you have all of this things. And then of course then science.

Sharita Ware (19:32):
So if it’s on a heel, how can we, you know, deal with erosion? And you know, you can just pull so many different things into that. And so not only are they learning, but they’re narrowed in and focused on a project, they’re, they’re able to dive deep into, you know, learning more of learning, how to express themselves and communicate with real people. So it’s more of taking these compartmentalized learning that we do in middle school and high school. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> where you’re almost learning apprenticeship style. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, you have these master educators and it’s not about them being the best at math or being the best at this or that. Cuz there’s so many tools now that could help you through that. But you’re, you’re giving, you’re teaching them so many life skills and so many ways to think and problem solve that, that we’re just that the kids just don’t have.

Eric Cross (20:27):

I think that that is amazing. And I think that in that situation, what I’m hearing is we’re going deeper, not wider because there are a lot of different concepts that kids are expected to learn. Or I should say there are several concepts that teachers are expected to teach doesn’t necessarily mean that our kids are learning, but we’re teaching them. And this way you’re embedded it into an authentic context. Students are able to go through this cycle just like real life. And then they’re also able to build these kind of really transdisciplinary skills. Not only am I learning the math, the English, the the, but I’m also learning the interpersonal skills of being able to sell myself and present myself in a way that’s winsome. And it’s especially powerful coming from someone from industry. Last question, even just listening to you, I know you, you are this for a lot of people, but I wanted to ask you who inspires you?

Sharita Ware (21:14):
I think there have been lots of people over the years. Like I’m thinking of my shop teacher who has since, uh, the last few years passed away. Um, he was one of those people, I think similar personality to me, super quiet person, but he was always in the background on my journey and his name was Joe Mo and we called her Madam Carol was my 10th grade English lit teacher. And she was the one that started reading my work out in front of the class. And you know, and that just gave me courage, not so much to be seen. Uh, but that the work I was doing was, was good. And, and I think I needed that kind of encouragement. Lastly, my students inspire me because when I look at their faces and see the excitement, I think of those students for the first time and, and, and think about this seventh and eighth graders for the first time feeling like they really have something to say, they really have something to contribute of value. And, and I do it for them. You know, the reason why I am here in this moment is because of them. Um, without them, you wouldn’t be talking to me <laugh>

Eric Cross (22:37):
This is, this is true. This is, this is true. You would probably never say this about yourself, but you just exude a humility and a service in how you talk about your students and yourself. And I just wanna thank you for using your gifts, but I don’t wanna just call them gifts because it makes it sound like you didn’t earn ’em and your skills that you’ve earned and worked very hard to acquire over the years to go back into the classroom and leave industry, cuz you, you could have gone back to industry too, but you decided not to. And you could have worked in the industry and your hours were a little different pay is a little different, but you came back to serve the kids of Indiana and because of you and because of that choice, those students have a brighter future and believe in themselves and they’re finding their voice. And I want to thank you for that and for representing all of us stem teachers who are in middle school and being that leader. So thank you for that and thank you for being on the podcast.

Sharita Ware (23:24):
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Eric Cross (23:28):
Thank so much for listening. Now we wanna hear more about you in the amazing work you’re doing for students. Do you have any educators who inspire you? You can nominate them as a future guest on science connections by emailing stem, amplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s ST E M amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and join our Facebook group science connections, the community until next time.

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What Sharita Ware says about science

“Sometimes, empowering your students to understand the why is what allows them to be able to do bigger and greater things on their own.”

– Sharita Ware

Engineer and Technology Teacher, 2020 Indiana Teacher of the Year

Meet the guest

Sharita Ware, a Purdue University graduate, is in her 10th year of teaching engineering and technology education to middle school students in the Tippecanoe School Corporation. Ware challenges her students with real-world, problem-based design scenarios that will help them contribute to global technology and integrated STEM. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-04: Connecting with students and caregivers in the science classroom: Ryan Rudkin

Promotional graphic for "science connections", season 1, episode 4, featuring a smiling woman named Ryan Rudkin, themed with science illustrations like atoms and a globe, highlighting how to engage students

In this special episode, our host Eric Cross sits down with veteran middle school teacher Ryan Rudkin. Ryan shares her expertise after almost two decades in the classroom, discussing ways to incorporate aspects of problem-based learning into the K–8 science classroom. Eric and Ryan talk about how to increase parent engagement, involve community members, and add excitement to lessons.

Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Ryan Renee Rudkin (00:00):

I know there’s other goals in mind, you know, standards and test scores. But at the end of the day, I wanna come back and I want them to come back.

Eric Cross (00:35):

My name’s Eric Cross, host of our science podcast, and I am with Ryan Rudkin, middle-school teacher out here in California just to the north up near Sacramento? El Dorado Hills?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (00:46):

Yeah. 20 miles east of Sacramento.

Eric Cross (00:49):

Nice. And I am down here in San Diego. And so Ryan, to start off, what I wanna do is ask you about your origin story, like a superhero. So how did you become a middle-school science teacher to become part of this elite profession of science folks that get to do awesome things with kids?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (01:08):

I would agree with you that it is definitely an elite profession. I got my credential and I thought I was gonna teach third or fourth grade elementary school. And the second day I got called for a sub job for middle school. And I just thought, “We’ll take it,” you know? And by second period, I knew: This is where I belong. The kids, middle school, students are just a species of their own. And you have to appreciate them. And if you do appreciate them, then you’re in the right spot. And I quickly looked at my coursework and I was able to get authorizations in science, history, and English, and I love science. So I chose science. And the rest is history. It’s been a wild ride and I wouldn’t have changed or asked for anything different. I love it.

Eric Cross (02:02):

I definitely agree with you. So, your history—you’ve been in various middle-school classrooms. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What classrooms have you been in? What disciplines of science have you taught or are currently teaching?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (02:14):

I was hired for seventh grade life science, and then I did that for a few years and then I got moved into eighth physical science, and I was there for 12 years. Love eighth grade science. I love eighth graders. Chemistry and physics are my favorite. There’s just so much opportunity for just awesome labs, great conversations, student discourse, all of that. And then the past three years I’ve been in sixth grade and now we’re integrated. So,a sixth grade integrated science and I also teach social studies and a technology design class.

Eric Cross (02:52):

Oh, nice. What do you do in your technology design class? That sounds cool.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (02:56):

Right now it’s mostly internet media and we use WeVideo, it’s an editing-video program, and we produce and put on our school weekly news bulletin. And then we weave in other projects. We do some interdisciplinary projects. Right now my students are working on a mythology God, Goddess, and Monster project that relates to our social studies curriculum. And we’re learning about Greece. So yeah, we just try to give them added projects and they’re using the WeVideo platform. By sixth grade, they’re coming to us now with wonderful skills with all the tech. I mean, if I need help, I ask them like, “How do you do something on Google Docs?” Or, “How do you do something on Drive?” The kids are definitely tech-savvy.

Eric Cross (03:49):

They must love being the teacher in the classroom. They get to—it kind of switches power roles, where they get to teach the teacher something.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (03:56):

Yes. And especially WeVideo, sometimes we’ve had some hiccups, and the kids show everybody, and that’s part of the design class. They’re trying to solve—we’re teaching them how to solve their own problems. So if there’s any kind of issue with anything with the technology, honestly, I usually tell them, “Go ask a friend,” or we kind of shout out, “Hey, who knows how to troubleshoot this?” And the kids are eager to help each other, which is nice.

Eric Cross (04:21):

And they have this authentic experience where they’re actually doing real problem-solving, as opposed to something that we manufactured. Like, those are real things that we have to deal with in life. And that’s exactly like how we solve it, right? We just go ask people! We look it up, and the ahas are genuine too. Throughout!

Ryan Renee Rudkin (04:36):

Yes, especially thinking on the fly. Especially yesterday, I was in the middle of teaching and my laptop froze, and it’s like, “OK, everybodytake a couple minutes, you know, work on this, this, or that while I switch out laptops!” And so I’m modeling, too, how to solve my own problems. And I think it teaches the kids how to do that too.

Eric Cross (04:59):

I’ve always thought it was interesting that when teachers get to teach in real time, how do we handle stress and frustration when it’s really happening? And I think the tech—at times, failure is the real one where you feel this chill or this sweat that kind of comes over you and you’re trying to present or cast or the video won’t play and things like that. I think I’ve done enough times in my years of teaching where now my students know what to do, or they want to come up and help, and we’re good with it. But I remember in the beginning when those things would kind of glitch or go wrong or the wifi goes down, and you’re like, OK, what do we need now?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (05:33):

I think it’s honestly, after the fact, when I think in the moment, I’m not thinking of feeling stressed, but just afterwards, then I’m like, “Oh my gosh, this has just been a wild day.” But yeah, you just have to kind of go with it. And that’s just the beast of middle school. I just added to the list of why we love it.

Eric Cross (05:53):

You said something about interdisciplinary work, and I wanna kind of ask about that. Because it sounds like you’ve had your hand in several different areas of science and grade levels. Working, doing design courses, working with tech. Are there certain lessons that are your favorites to teach? The ones that you really enjoy, or that no matter what, you’re like, “We need to do this; this is such a rich experience for students”?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (06:17):

Yeah. I definitely try to do lessons or activities along the way. I like to do projects at the end of my units. When I taught physics, we did a project and it was mainly an assessment tool called the Wheeling and Dealing. The kids, they would all get a different car. And then they to sell their car. And so they had to pretend to be a car salesman, and they did that with their knowledge of the physics unit. So everything we did on forces and speed and motion. So I like doing culminating projects like that. And you’re kind of tricking them into assessing them.

Eric Cross (06:57):

When I think about your car salesman project, I’m thinking of a bunch of students, but they’re like on Shark Tank, but they’re just littler versions. And they’re doing these sales pitches, but they’re speaking in scientific terms as they’re trying to do it. Do you record these or do they just exist in the classroom?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (07:12):

No…And that was a long time ago, when I taught eighth grade. I wish I had; I wish I had recorded. That was definitely—it was fun, ’cause the kids, they would get their little piece of paper and they—some of ’em didn’t know what car it was. And so they’re like “A Boo… A Boo-gatti? What’s a Boo-gatti?” And then someone from across the room would be like, “Ooh, I want it! Here, I’ll trade you my Ford Focus!” And <laugh> so they would kind of wheel-and-deal which car they would…and then once they got their choice, then they would do the project.

Eric Cross (07:44):

So they’re really embodying this persona of a car salesman. The wheeling and doing back-and-forth and trying to trade a Bugatti for a Ford Focus. <Laugh>

Ryan Renee Rudkin (07:53):

I know. <Laugh> I like to make my class, my learning environment, enjoyable. You know, I gotta be there; they gotta be there. So I know there’s other goals in mind—you know, standards and test scores—but at the end of the day, I wanna come back, and I want them to come back. And I just have that as a priority.

Eric Cross (08:18):

Well, based on the projects that you’re doing and the way that you approach education with students, I can see why middle-school students would want to come back, even if they had the option not to. Just because of the cool things that you’re doing. Now we’re on this—hopefully, fingers crossed—tail end of COVID in the classroom and schools, and I know it’s impacted all of us differently. Has student engagement changed since COVID and if so, how, and what have you done in these last two years to maybe adjust your approach, to continue that engagement and that richness that you provide for your kids?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (08:57):

I definitely—I think for me, I recognize that when the students are in my classroom, I want them to, I dunno, for lack of a better word, just escape the noise at home. And I know we’ve always had students that are going through divorce situations or their dog died, other things, but I think with COVID, it’s definitely been compounded. And just creating a safe place for the kids to want to be and…it’s hard. We’ve had a lot of students that have been out, absent, for various reasons and on quarantine. And they’re struggling with doing work from home, ’cause their parents are stressed and their parents are dealing with their work issues. And so I think just having grace for the kids and just keeping…I don’t know, I guess like I said, I’ve always had student engagement as top of my list.

Eric Cross (10:06):

It sounds like—the things I hear you say really have to do with who these students are as people.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (10:12):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (10:13):

And then as a second, who they are as students. How do relationships fit into your engagement? ‘Cause I’m hearing this connection that you seem to be making with kids as you’re talking about things that are beyond academics: their home life, how they’re impacted.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (10:28):

Yes.

Eric Cross (10:28):

Is there anything that you do to build these relationships, or to connect with your students, to make them feel wanted or feel connected to the classroom or to you?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (10:37):

Yeah, I do. I do a few things to build those connections. And again, this timeframe in their life is so out of their control, their peer relationships, relationships with their parents. And when they’re in my classroom, I want them to feel loved and appreciated. Something I do it’s called Phone Fridays. And in one of the social media groups, someone posted about it, and I’ve been doing it for over a year now, actually. So on Fridays I call parents and give good news. And so I’ll pick maybe one or two students. And it could be academic reasons. It could be behavior, I’ve seen a slight improvement of behavior. Maybe a role model in the classroom. And my goal is to get everybody every trimester. So everybody gets a phone call by the end of the trimester. And it’s funny ’cause sometimes the parents are a little like “Uh-oh”! When they pick up, they see the caller ID, and their school’s calling. ‘Cause Some kids don’t get good calls. So it’s a really—I would say every single parent that I’ve called, I usually get a follow-up email, either to me or my admin, just saying it’s such a cool idea I do this; thank you so much. And yeah, I just call and give good news and just put ’em on the spot. And usually the kids are a little embarrassed, but you can tell, even though they’re kind of—I think they’re faking it, that they’re embarrassed! ‘Cause You know that they got the Phone Friday, and everybody’s like, “Who’s gonna get the phone Friday?!” And so it’s a very big deal in my class.

Eric Cross (12:07):

What a great way to—I mean, it seems like that hits on so many levels. You’re making these positive calls home. You’re praising publicly, which a lot of times can happen where students can get criticized or redirected publicly and then praised privately, which is a lot of times the reverse what we should be doing. But here you are praising them publicly. And then you’re not only building a relationship with yourself, but you’re also connecting them with their parent or whoever is caring for them, because now when they go home, there’s this, “Hey, your teacher called; you’re doing awesome!” So it’s this kind of triangle that’s forming there. I think that’s super-cool and a great thing for teachers to do.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (12:45):

It takes, you know, the last five minutes of my class. I do it every class. And then I have a system. Like I said, I keep track of all the kids. That way, by the end of the trimester I’ve gotten everybody. Sometimes I let the students, whoever I call first, then I let them pick a peer and I tell them, “OK, we have to have a solid reason. Why are we calling?” And a couple times they’ll have a student, like one of my energized ones, they’ll raise their hand. “How About me? How about me?” And I and the kids kind of laugh a little and I said, “Well, how about this? Let’s make a goal. How about next week we’re gonna make a goal and we’re gonna have a reason to call home.” So just working on the kids that need a little push in the right direction. That’s other reasoning to it. But yeah, it’s fun. I love it.

Eric Cross (13:33):

And you have the community. You have this goal setting. We were talking a little earlier about this transition—so you’re becoming this…your school’s going through the IB process, is that right?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (13:44):

Yes.

Eric Cross (13:44):

And we were talking about the ATL skills and one of them is goal-setting management. You already kind of organically do this in your classroom, which is really neat. I know being an IB teacher, a lot of times I find the things that I’ve already been doing and find, “Oh, this is actually an approach to learning!” or “This is something that has a title!” I just thought it was just being helpful! Ah…So the kids are connected. You have this process where you’re calling parents; it’s working; students are involved, so it’s building this community. Now you’re engaging students. Do you have any favorite student engagement tools that you use in your classroom or when you’re teaching that you feel like you get a lot of bang for your buck? There’s so many things out there these days. And so many approaches, tools, web apps. Do you have any favorites that you use?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (14:40):

No. Nothing comes up top of my mind right now. Mostly just projects, like I said. And being excited. I think having my students see me excited about something…and I’m honest when we’re doing something that’s not quite my favorite, then I’m honest about that too. But just having my—like, we just started thermal energy this week and I told my students, I said, “OK guys, I’m gonna weave in some chemistry in there. I’m gonna weave in some particle motion,” and they’re like, “Oh! That’s when you taught eighth grade, huh!” Cause I talk a lot about when I taught eighth grade before. I don’t know, just showing my own enthusiasm, I think, is a good payoff to me. That’s a bang for your buck. Other things…I try to give ’em cool videos and Mark Grober, he’s definitely a favorite of mine I like to show my students. I like to bring in guest speakers from our community. When I taught eighth grade for physics, I always brought in a local CHP officer and they would bring in the radar and lidar guns and the kids would mark off the parking lot and they would calculate their speed. And then they would verify it with the radar gun. Two years ago when I taught math, I brought in a local landscaper company, a father-and-son outfit, and they showed the kids how they would do bids on jobs. And so, relate it to our chapter on volume and area. So just making that connection with real life. Plus it’s just a nice opportunity, too, for the community to come in. With our design class, put on our newscast. And then one of our units in our sixth grade curriculum is weather. And so I brought in a local weatheruh, chief meteorologist. And he actually talked to the students about his job as a meteorologist and then also being on the news and putting on a newscast. So we got him on our green screen and did a little like Mark Finan, you know, little cameo on our newscast for the week for school. So that was kind of cool.

Eric Cross (16:45):

They must have been excited.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (16:47):

Yeah. They’re pretty starstruck by him. So that was pretty fun.

Eric Cross (16:51):

This person was on their local news? So they would know him?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (16:56):

Yeah, he’s on Channel 3 out of Sacramento. Yeah. KCRA Channel 3, Mark Finan.

Eric Cross (17:00):

So all these guest speakers that you have…how do you reach out to these people? And you sound like you get a lot of success. Do you ever get nos? Like if I’m sitting here listening and that inspires me, but you’re getting celebrities and you see a few people…like, how do you reach out to them? And does everybody say yes? How does it go?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (17:21):

Well, usually at my back-to-school night, I always ask the parents if they have a career or hobby that could lend itself to the curriculum. And so sometimes I’ll hear about—students will talk about, like, “My mom’s a doctor.” And so I’ll reach out to parents and just say, “Hey, you know, your kiddo said, you’re a doctor. May I ask what type?” And most of the time the nos that I’ve received are just because of schedule conflicts. You just have to get creative! Look in your community and see what you have. People want to come and talk to kids. I’ve had some presentations that the person is so intelligent and amazing, but they just, weren’t very kid-friendly. I mean, that happens. Butsomeone knows someone. And just ask! I mean, it doesn’t hurt to ask to have ’em come out, come hang out for the day, with my students. Andone time I had a nurse practitioner she was in the cardiac unit. And so she brought in hearts and led a heart dissection with my students. And we did a station set-up. I’ve had elaborate ones like that, or just a mom come in to tell my students about her job as a nutritionist and relate it to our unit on metabolism. And so just did like a little 15-minute Q&A with the kids on nutrition. And I would just say, look at your community and/or post on social media. I always do that. Post in your school’s PTA groups. So the parents know someone, that’s for sure. Or someone’s retired. One time I had—I think he was a grandfather of one of the kids—he was into rocks. And he had a bunch of meteorites <laugh> and brought in his meteorites.

Eric Cross (19:15):

Bring in your rocks!

Ryan Renee Rudkin (19:15):

I know! Right? And he <laugh> just brought in his meteorite collection! I was like, sure, come on in!

Eric Cross (19:23):

That’s one of the things I love about being a middle-school teacher is that my students have such varied interests and I’ll get the Rock Kid every once in a while and he’ll come in and he’ll have all these rocks and crystals. And a lot of times there’s a grandfather that’s responsible for this inherited geologic treasure that they have.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (19:45):

Yeah, something like that—I mean rocks are not my favorites, but I don’t really tell the kids that. I was like, “Sure, yeah, come on in! We can have a whole-day lesson on rocks!”

Eric Cross (19:55):

<Weakly> “This is great!”

Ryan Renee Rudkin (19:58):

Just utilizing your resources. That’s all it’s about.

Eric Cross (20:02):

Well, I think the back-to-school night was really helpful. That’s something that’s super doable. You have a bunch of parents and you just simply ask, “Who do you know? What do you do?” And then just collecting that and then just asking people to come in. I’ve I’ve been reluctant to do it more often than I’ve wanted to, because I haven’t figured out—and maybe you can help me with this—I have three class periods a day plus other class periods that are not necessarily science. And I don’t want to dominate a person’s schedule. Do they tend to be willing to stay all day? Or do you do, one class gets it, and you record it? Like, how do you balance out the speakers with your school schedule?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (20:39):

Mostly they’ll they’ll just come for the whole day. When I taught eighth grade, I had five classes, so that was easy. That was an all-day thing. And then usually I’ll offer to call lunch, have lunch delivered, or snacks during the day. I mean—

Eric Cross (20:53):

Feeding them is key.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (20:54):

Yeah. Just something kind of nice. Donuts in the morning. I mean, you’d be very surprised. Most people that are in the field or retired, like I said, they’re more than willing to come. And even if they have to wait an hour, while you teach another class that doesn’t pertain to it, then they’ll either leave or come back or just hang out in the back and pretend to be a student during that history class that you have.

Eric Cross (21:20):

It’s my own limiting belief where I feel guilty. I don’t think about it. I need to think about it through the perspective that you do, that these people WANT to talk. I just assume everybody’s so busy. But I do know, the times I’ve had speakers come out, at the end of the day, they’re so energized or they’re so happy or they’re so grateful. ‘Cause They’re like, “This is what it’s like to teach every day?” I’m like, “Yeah, this is what it’s like.”

Ryan Renee Rudkin (21:42):

I think too, a lot of parents…usually being being in the stops at elementary. A Lot of parents don’t get the opportunity to come help out in the classroom, because the middle school kids, you know, it’s not very cool or it’s just not needed like in the elementary classes. So a lot of times, like I said, you’d be surprised. A lot of the parents they’re more than happy to come and hang out. And again, some students, they don’t want their mom or dad to be there, but then I talk it up. I’m like, “Everyone’s gonna be so like impressed that your dad’s a doctor,” or “your mom’s a doctor” or —so then I kind of like downplay it. Like, “Oh, whatever, you’re you’re faking it. It’ll be fine. Don’t be embarrassed.” Leading up to their parent coming into the classroom.

Eric Cross (22:36):

Right. Kind of redirect that energy toward something positive. With guest speakers, projects, pacing, all these awesome things that you have going on, how do you find balance as a teacher, as a person? And what encouragement would you give to new or aspiring teachers? We work in a profession that will take as much as you give it. And you fall asleep at night worrying about other people’s kids and we love it. And teachers by personality can just give and give and give and give. But in order for us to last—I’m thinking about those new teachers who are going into it, who are gonna go in and be there before the sun gets up and stay after the sun gets down. How do you maintain balance, taking care of yourself? You’ve been in education for—how long have you been teaching for?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (23:29):

Sixteen. This is my 16th year.

Eric Cross (23:31):

Enough to be that veteran. So how do you find balance? And then, what encouragement would you give to new or aspiring teachers?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (23:39):

I would say each year, pick one or two things to add on. You can’t add on 10 things, even though you’re gonna find 10 things that are awesome. But just make a little list, put ’em in a file, and every year, just get good at what you do and then just add on one or two things. And reflect on what’s not going well that you can get rid of to make room to add something else. Try to be patient with yourself. And don’t reinvent the wheel. There’s so many things out there that you can borrow and make it your own. Again, I think that’s a time-saver, just leaning on your colleagues. And take lots of notes, because then when you do it again next year, you can refresh yourself and, “Oh yeah, this lesson, wasn’t the best…” What can you add in to make it a little bit better? And yeah, I would say just take on one or two things each year. And then by the time you get to, you know, being a veteran, you can do all these awesome things and it’ll feel natural ’cause you’ve been practicing and just adding in one thing at a time. I coached Science Olympiad a bunch of years ago, and Science Olympiad is so rewarding. It’s just so amazing.

Eric Cross (24:59):

What is Science Olympiad, for the people who’ve never heard of it?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (25:03):

Oh, Science Olympiad is so awesome. Google it. I think it’s just ScienceOlympiad.org. It’s 23 different events across all disciplines of science, different topics. And then you have a team of 15 students. And so your 15 students have to cover the 23 events. So for example, if the student’s on the anatomy team, usually there’s a team of two kids they’re gonna study and learn. They provide all the rules and the guidelines. So the students learn and study whatever the parameters are for that year. And then they take a test. And then they compete against other schools. And there’s build events, the engineering events, they can build things like trebuchets matchbox cars or mousetrap cars. Oh gosh, there’s all kinds of things. There’s like a Rube Goldberg device. It changes every year. And it’s so rewarding to see the kids; they pick their area of science that they love. And sometimes you have to put them on an event that they don’t know, and then they end up loving it. It’s so rewarding as a teacher to see these kids that are just on fire and you know that one day they’re gonna go off and do amazing things. They just commit. They commit to their event. And then they blow it outta the water and they win medals and just the recognition…it’s super, it’s just an amazing program.

Eric Cross (26:42):

One of the competitions that’s really low-tech that I’ve taken into my classroom is Write It, Do It. Have you done that one before?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (26:50):

Oh, yes. Yeah. That’s one. Yep.

Eric Cross (26:52):

It’s such a low-tech, simple one to do, but it teaches such great skills. And for those people who haven’t heard of the Write It, Do It project, you create kinda some abstract art out of random crafts. That’s very difficult to describe. You have pipe cleaners and foam and balls and you know, all these different things. And you make it. And then one person on the team is the writer, and they look at it and they write the procedures, and then their teammate, who’s in a different room and doesn’t get to see it, gets all the materials to build it and the procedures, and they have to rebuild it as closely as possible to the actual original. Even though they don’t get to see the original. So they have to rely on their partner’s ability to write procedures step-by-step. And it was fun to watch my students become teammates in that. And they learned how to communicate in a really fun competition. So I expanded it to do it with all of my students as an activity, just to teach them how write descriptively, to write procedurally, to be technical writers. And it’s, it’s fun! It’s fun to see what they build based on what the students say. <Laugh> And it’s also fun to watch them interact with each other, which for seventh graders, usually it’s conflict. <Laugh> But, like, playful conflict. <Laugh> It’s pretty funny to see what they build.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (28:11):

They’re like, “Man, what are you talking about? That doesn’t mean this; it means this!”

Eric Cross (28:16):

<Laugh> I know part of me feels guilty, but not enough to stop the project. ‘Cause I know for some of ’em, it’s gonna be a really trial by fire being able to practice their skills with writing procedures.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (28:27):

But they’re learning among themselves how to provide more details and to be more thorough with their writing and and their thoughts, put their thoughts onto paper. So yeah, that’s a funny event. Definitely.

Eric Cross (28:41):

Earlier you had mentioned something about connecting your kids with kids and students outside of your classroom. What is it that you do with that? Because I thought that was a really cool project. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (28:57):

Yes, I’ve done—they haven’t had it in a few years, but there’s something called the Pringles Challenge. And if you Google that, I’m sure it’s on the Internet still. So you sign your class up, or your classes, and you get partnered with another school somewhere in the U.S., someplace else. And you decide individually teams, whatever they build. And they make a package to ship a single Pringle chip through the mail. And then you actually mail a Pringle chip through the mail. And then your partner team or partner school, they send their chips to you and then you open everything and then you can take pictures and video. And then there was a whole scoring process where you would score when you receive the chips. And then you input all the data on the website so you can see like how your—and most schools would trade pictures, so that the kids found out how their chip survived. March Mammal Madness is so much fun. Again, Google that.

Eric Cross (30:01):

Did you say March Mammal Madness?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (30:02):

Yes.

Eric Cross (30:03):

Like March Madness, with mammals?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (30:05):

Yes.

Eric Cross (30:05):

  1. What is this?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (30:06):

It starts up in March. And you can sign your students up. And that one—it’s not too interactive with other schools, but this is opportunity to get the kids interacting within your site or within your district. Or if you have teacher friends at other schools. There’s like 60…I think it’s 64 animals? And they have this massive bracket that they post. And then you can have the students, I did it—it would be very time-consuming to have the kids individually research each animal. So I just gave one animal per student and so as a class we researched all the animals and then, I think it’s every three days or so, they have these bouts. And it’s all posted on YouTube. Google it. It’s kind of fun.

Eric Cross (30:56):

I’ve already got the website up, ready to go! Folks, everybody who needs to Google this: <articulates carefully> March Mammal Madness. And is it Arizona State University? Is that the main site, ASU?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (31:04):

Yes.

Eric Cross (31:04):

So people, listen to this. Check it out. March Mammal Madness. Look, I’m doing this! I’m already,—you’ve already sold me on this.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (31:14):

It is so much fun, oh my gosh. And then, then the kids—each round, they pick their pick, just like basketball. They do their picks and then you wait for the video. And they do it live on—I think it’s live on Instagram, or the next day on YouTube. And then the kids get all excited. And then usually the kids, whatever animal they got as their research animal, they’re rooting for that one to win, the whole thing.

Eric Cross (31:42):

But we still have time; we still have time to—

Ryan Renee Rudkin (31:45):

You can jump in anytime. Even if it’s already started, you can jump into it. It usually lasts—I believe it’s a two-week from beginning to end. When they do the first round, the wild card, and then all the way to the winner, I believe it’s a two-week process. Oh, maybe three, actually.

Eric Cross (31:59):

I’m already seeing this lead-up to the video being watched in class to see…I’m already thinking about like, “How do I prevent my students from finding the video?” Or like, “When does it go live so that I could be the one to show them so they didn’t go find it early?”

Ryan Renee Rudkin (32:13):

It takes time out of the class, but I believe it’s one of those things where you have to just…it takes 10 minutes out of the class, but it’s important. So when they each round and then the next day, they release the YouTube video. Last year, when it got down to the final round, we were on spring break. And so I told my students, “You guys, let’s do some optional Zooms. And so I had a bunch of kids log on and we all watched the videos together. So that was kind of fun. And then this year, the other thing, the first time I’ve ever done this and it’s going really well is—on social media, I was talking with one of the teachers from Ohio who teaches science and she and I decided we’re gonna do penpals for our students this year. Paper-And-Pen penpals. So that’s been a lot of fun. We just partnered up all the students, her students and my students, and once a month we send and receive the letters to each other. So that’s been a really cool experience.

Eric Cross (33:14):

If you keep doing that, and you need more teachers to be involved, can my students be penpals with your students?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (33:20):

Yeah!

Eric Cross (33:20):

If you open it up to more people? I think that, to get a letter, old-school? Letter in the mail? It would be so exciting.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (33:28):

It is. We mail them, the teacher and I, we just put them all together in one package. But yeah, it’s an actual handwritten letter.

Eric Cross (33:37):

The only letters I feel like I get in the mail now are bills.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (33:42):

Right? Exactly.

Eric Cross (33:42):

But I feel like the digital version of that is if someone calls me, it’s probably bad news. I don’t know if I’m the only one that’s like that, but I’m like, “Who’s calling me? Why aren’t you texting me? What’s going on? Text me first, then call! I need to know who’s going on, and if you’re unknown, you’re going to voicemail.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (34:00):

Exactly. The penpals has been a lot of fun.

Eric Cross (34:03):

You’ve been in education for a while. You’re on the other side of what it’s like to be a student in the classroom. Which can be surreal in itself, when we think about our own experiences as being a student. Is there a teacher or a learning experience that’s had an impact on you while you were a student in school that really stands out to you? And you can interpret the question however you want. But is there someone that’s memorable or an experience that’s memorable that you still carry with you today?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (34:32):

Definitely. My favorite teacher, and we actually still keep in contact on social media is Mrs. Sheldon. She was my fifth and sixth grade teacher. I had the pleasure when I was in elementary school, I was in an all-day contained GATE class—Gifted and Talented Education class. I vividly remember doing so many amazing projects. We built this big, giant—she brought in a big ol’, like, TV box. It was big, big, big. And you could stick like three kids inside there, standing up shoulder-to-shoulder. And we built this big dragon. The head, and we had the whole rest of the class in a big sheet behind us, and we would do a little parade around the school. And she had that thing for years after. They had to repair it every year, and they would do the little parade around school. She did a lot of traveling and when we would go on vacation and then come back, that was always the big deal: “Where did Mrs Sheldon go?” And she had sand from Egypt and pictures from the rainforest. And later when I became a teacher and then I looked her up and we reconnected I did ask her, “Did you go to those places? Or did you, like, lie about it? <Laugh> To get us engaged?

Eric Cross (35:52):

You went for the real questions!

Ryan Renee Rudkin (35:54):

I did. And she laughed and thought that was funny. And she did travel for real. But yeah, she’s an amazing woman. We still keep in contact. And I remember, you know, little things…like we would be out there doing our PE time and she’d have her long skirt, you know, dress on, with her tennies, and she’s out there playing kickball with us. Just a very kindhearted, smart, amazing woman. I’m very fortunate and I’m grateful that we are able to keep in contact. Love social media for that reason. So.

Eric Cross (36:33):

Yeah. And that’s Miss Sheldon?

Ryan Renee Rudkin (36:35):

Mrs. Sheldon. Marlene Sheldon. Yeah.

Eric Cross (36:37):

Shout-Out to Marlene Sheldon influencing the next generation of teachers, with engagement with your world travels and all those different things.

Eric Cross (37:04):

Ryan, thank you so much for one, serving our students. And in the classroom, our middle-school students who need us. I think that middle school especially, elementary school, those years are when students are really starting to decide, “What am I good at?” And the experiences that we create for our students really shape what they believe they can do. These really cool, engaging experiences, these projects that you’re giving them, whether they’re doing these car sales, Shark Tanks, or they’re doing penpals, or you have guest speakers, or they’re designing planets. These are things that students don’t forget. And then when they move on to higher grades, they remember more than anything, I think, how they felt about something. And it sounds like you’re crafting these awesome experiences. And so I just wanna thank you for your time. I know as a teacher it’s very short. And I thank you for being on the podcast with us.

Ryan Renee Rudkin (38:04):

Thank you. This has been a great experience. I just—I really enjoy my students. And I feel very, very grateful and very blessed for finding where I belong.

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What Ryan Rudkin says about science

“I like to make my class and my learning environment enjoyable. I know there’s other goals in mind… but at the end of the day, I want to come back and I want [students] to come back. It’s so rewarding as a teacher to see these kids that are just on fire… and you know that one day they’re going to go off and do amazing things. ”

– Ryan Renee Rudkin

Middle school science teacher

Meet the guest

Ryan Rudkin is a middle school science educator near Sacremento, California. Although she originally thought she would teach elementary students, Ryan connected with middle school and never looked back. Now in her 16th year in the classroom, Ryan also supports teachers in her district with professional development. Ryan’s favorite part of teaching science is seeing students grapple with concepts and explore phenomena.

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About Science Connections: The podcast

Welcome to Science Connections: The Podcast! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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S1-08: The importance of risk-taking in the science classroom, a conversation with Valeria Rodriguez

AS_Podcast-S1E08-Valeria-Rodriguez_Cover

In this episode, our host Eric Cross sits down with Miami-based educator Valeria Rodriguez. Valeria shares her journey of serving in the Peace Corps, working a corporate job, and eventually finding her passion as a middle-school science teacher. Listen in as Valeria explains how sketchnoting, a form of note-taking that utilizes illustrations, encourages student choice and creativity in her classroom. Eric and Valeria also discuss the importance of risk-taking within the science classroom, and how their own mistakes can be crucial in modeling resilience for students. Lastly, Valeria shares experiences she had with several teachers who inspired her throughout her career. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Valeria Rodriguez (00:00):

There’s so many things that drawing to me makes an essential connection to. It tells me no matter what, I can continue placing lines on my paper and creating the image I want. Some people will say they messed up the drawing. You know what? They gave it character.

Eric Cross (00:19):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Valeria Rodriguez. Valeria is a science educator, instructional technologist, and illustrator, who is currently part of a steam team where she teaches third through fifth graders in Miami, Florida. Valeria has presented and led workshops at education conferences like NSTA, ISTI, and SXSWEdu. In this episode, we discuss how she uses real-world projects to make lessons more meaningful, and why teaching students how to sketchnote increases their conceptual understanding in science. I hope you enjoy this pun-filled conversation with Valeria Rodriguez.

New Speaker (00:58):

Now you’re in Miami and you have a biology background. We’re like kindred spirits. Like we do the same thing. I teach biology here in San Diego at a middle school called Albert Einstein Academy. So I’m in a seventh grade classroom teaching life science.

Valeria Rodriguez (01:11):

That’s so cool. That’s how I started.

Eric Cross (01:13):

Is it?

Valeria Rodriguez (01:13):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I started teaching middle school science for seven years, doing life science in my biology background.

Eric Cross (01:20):

How’d you get started? Like where did you kind of begin?

Valeria Rodriguez (01:22):

Well, I went to UF for undergrad as a runner, and I thought I was gonna go to the Olympics, but you know, running in college is hard. And you quickly like realize a path as a full-time athlete is really hard. And one of the days that I was having one of those, like “come Jesus moments” of what am I gonna do with my life, I walked by a sign that said life is calling. And I’m like, okay, <laugh>

Eric Cross (01:52):

You literally had a sign.

Valeria Rodriguez (01:53):

There was a sign. So I was like, I’m reading the sign. I’m following the arrows. And it was for the Peace Corps. And so I went to this meeting and everything that I’ve ever done student government, athletics school education, my backgroundmy family’s from Columbia–everything in that meeting came together and they’re like, we need all these skills. And I’m like, I have those. Those are my skills. And they’re like every Peace Corps volunteer teaches. And so I went in as an agriculture volunteer to Panama because of my major and my background in biology. And while I was in the Peace Corps doing the work, I was teaching at the local school. And I realized that the most sustainable way to create any change is through education. When I came back, I was like, well, what do you do if your first job in the world is in the Peace Corps? Like my background was, you know, managing a machete in a field and teaching second through eighth grade in one classroom, on a chalkboard, you know, in English and in Spanish, while teaching the teacher and the students. So I found that going into teaching allowed me to put some of those skills, that wide array of skills that I had collected until that moment, into practice. And it allowed me to do the arts, do the running, do the science, do the connecting with the community in one place here in the states.

Eric Cross (03:34):

I don’t know if I’m just romanticizing, but you were in Panama and you were doing this amazing teaching. I don’t know. Do you compare it to teaching now in the classroom? Is there anything that ever like makes you wish that you were kind of in that environment again? Or are you kind of, do you like the more kind of technology side of things?

Valeria Rodriguez (03:48):

I tell my students all the time that I miss it, because when I was in Panama, I was in Licencia. They looked at me like this, all knowing being. If they couldn’t come to class because the kids literally had to work, they would bring me their assignment, like run it to me and then run back to their parents. Like, “I had to turn it in, but I have to go to work.” And I’m like, oh my gosh. And like here, sometimes I feel like, you know, I have to negotiate and convince my students to want to give me their work. And maybe it’s because we take a lot of things for granted. I mean, I didn’t have running water in my community. Here, you know, we have everything. I miss how we appreciated — like, my parents would send suitcases of materials for me to hand out to my students, like color and stuff, notebooks, things like that — and the kids would like, hold that notebook, like pristine and here sometimes my students aren’t as careful with materials. And I’m like, why are you breaking the crayon box? <Laugh>

Eric Cross (04:54):

I’m thinking about that. Just even just bringing pens and crayons and how that’s valued. And then a culture that’s built around esteeming teachers, and you’re this essential member of the community — and you feel that. It’s palpable.

Valeria Rodriguez (05:08):

Yeah. And here, sometimes I ask students like, what do you wanna be when you grow up? And you get all sorts of answers, but in my community, it’s gonna sound funny, but they were like, we wanna be a teacher. Like, that means that we would know a lot of stuff and they would put their hair up in a bun, ‘cause I always have it in a bun, and they would write stuff when they were playing and they would act me out <laugh> and I’m like, do I, do I do that? <Laugh> I genuinely got a very rich experience in the time that I was there. And what I learned the most was how to try to not do as much, it’s like a lesson that I’m still trying to learn because like I’m here with the U.S. Mentality of go, go, go.

Valeria Rodriguez (05:58):

And they’re like, but we already did, you know, two things like now we stop. And I’m like, but, but why? And they’re like, you can do that tomorrow. And I’m like, but no, like we’re gonna run out of time. For me. It was a lot of struggle of like slow down. And as a teacher, I feel like I’m always like on the treadmill at a thousand speed. And sometimes I have to tell myself like slow down, be in this moment, like a parent texted me today that her daughter was walking with her dad and said, daddy, let’s talk about the layers of the soil. And I was like, I need to stop right now and acknowledge that this happened. She’s in third grade and she’s asking her dad, you know, she could ask him about anything, and she’s asking him about soil. That’s essential for everything. And we don’t even think about soil here. Like my community had tons of erosion and every year there were less and less crops being able to be produced. We’re not talking about that here. And yet, my student asked her dad here in Miami, <laugh> about soil. And that conversation happened because of our class.

Eric Cross (07:03):

And you allowed yourself to be present and experience and feel that that communication came to you.

Valeria Rodriguez (07:09):

Yeah. We put so much stuff out there and we don’t know where it lands. If it lands on dirt or soil, <laugh>

Eric Cross (07:16):

There you go. I like it. Yeah. Bringing it back. But you’re, I think you’re what you’re saying. Resonates with a lot of educators that’ll be listening to this is that there’s so much that you do. And there’s even times when we do get the feedback, there might be a letter or a card or something, but like, to your point, like we look to the next thing instead of stopping, being present and allowing yourself to absorb it. I think I need to put that up on my, like on my wall, like this, just be present. Now you came back and then you went into the classroom here and you started off teaching science.

Valeria Rodriguez (07:46):

I didn’t go straight into the classroom. I knew that I wanted to continue teaching. But I wasn’t back here in Miami. When I moved back, I moved to Austin. And I ended up getting married and there, I started teaching Spanish as a second language like corporate classes. And I was kind of like tiptoeing around, like, do you dive into education? ‘Cause The idea of a teacher here is very different than the teacher idea that I had while in the peace Corps. So he, a lot of people were like, you can do so many things. Why would you teach? And I was like insulted <laugh>. I was like, wait, what do you mean? Like even to this day, I’ve started a blog post, maybe 20 times with that statement because people all the time are like, you’re so talented. Why do you teach? And it drives me crazy because it makes me feel like they’re looking down on my choice <laugh> but I came to terms with it that it’s just like a societal thing. Cause of that quote, like those who can’t do teach. And I was like, let me let this go.

Eric Cross (09:01):

I find though that educators who come in as a second career, come in with a, a, a variety of skill sets that I, I think you can only get when you’re outside of academia. I mean, you can, you can develop them, you know, going kind of K12 education college and then into the classroom. But those soft skills, the business skills, a lot of those things you really develop. And it’s funny ‘cause your, your story almost sounds like some of the people that I know that work in big tech firms, they have this eclectic story and then now they’re, you know, working for Google or Facebook or something, but that actually was a as set to them because they are able to see the world through multiple perspectives. And I’m hearing kind of a distinguish between art of teaching and the science of teaching. Like you had the, maybe the art connecting ideas, these things, and then the science, like the quote unquote like formal teaching. Okay. That had to get built on later. Like am I hearing that right?

Valeria Rodriguez (09:55):

Yeah. The that’s what rocks I’m teaching the rock cycle right now. So I’m, I’m under a lot of heat and pressure <laugh>

Eric Cross (10:02):

We got the funds, we got the funds rolling. All right. All right. So bringing in the, so the, the art side or the science side we have, and then we just have this amazing illustrator. Now you mentioned your website and we’re gonna post it somewhere, but just so we have it here to, and you say, what is your website where all your majors and sketch notes can be found,

Valeria Rodriguez (10:21):

Www dot Valia, sketches.com.

Eric Cross (10:23):

Okay. So folks that are listening, if you wanna check out the art, there’s some awesome stuff on there, as well as Twitter and Instagram. And we’ll make sure we have it handles in the, the bio of the podcast and the notes. Your art’s amazing. I looked, I checked it. I saw inauguration. I saw astronauts. I saw all kinds of different things. How do you use that in the classroom

Valeria Rodriguez (10:45):

To draw connections? The ones? So what I do is I airplay my iPad onto the board. And sometimes as I’m talking, I’ll draw things, draw things I’m saying, or assignments I’ll sketch out different ideas, or maybe like the schedule I’ll have an icon of some sort that represents things. I use it for everything and anything, because just the way that I tell my students that science is everywhere. I, we don’t realize how programmed we are to use images to for, for information they’re in the street. Bathroom signs, we see the zoom little link, like the image, the icon of zoom. And we know that it’s a call the apps. You know, our phone doesn’t have the words for everything that we’re opening. We just have a list of images that represent information. So we’re programs for this. And all I’m doing is showing my students how we’re programmed for it because we’re so used to seeing images, to represent things that we’re taking it for granted again.

Valeria Rodriguez (12:03):

And sometimes my students will like, I’ll write something and I ask them, make your own visual vocabulary. So I give them the word of the definition for every unit, the younger ones, I give them the definition they have to plug in the word and an image, the older ones, I give them the word they have to plug in the definition and an image. But I don’t tell them what to draw because they need to create an image that will help them to remember the definition. Not me. I tell them, I wrote the list. I know the words, you’re the one that needs to think of something that’s going to help you to remember this. You need to draw a connection to this information. Like I use it and I mess up all the time. And I, I scratch things out because I feel that my students or the student that I’ve had in general are risk averse.

Valeria Rodriguez (12:57):

They don’t want to make mistakes. And drawing is one of those things that it taught me that it’s okay to make mistakes. Like people won’t buy commit to buying houses or they won’t commit to things because they’re gonna make a, I’m like, you can sell the house. You can move again. I mean, I’ve lived in a lot of cities. I’ve been married, divorce, gone out with people. It’s worked out it hasn’t you know, there’s, there’s so many things that drawing to me makes an essential connection to <affirmative> that it tells me no matter what I can continue placing lines on my paper and creating the image I want. And if a line doesn’t necessarily go in the direction, I want it to, I can continue shaping it so that the overall image is in the direction I want. And I can look past those line here and there that some people will say they messed up the drawing. You know what? They gave it character. I, I cycle and I have scars everywhere. They give me character and I keep writing. The overall image in my head is I’m a cyclist, not I’m banged up. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (14:14):

I feel like there’s so much to mind in what you just said. This was like a mini-Ted talk. And I couldn’t write fast enough because there were so many gems of the things that you said, but let me say something worse. And this is I’m gonna be surface with this because, and it’s your fault because you got me thinking in puns and you said, take it for granted. And I said, take it for granted because you’re talking about the rock cycle. So that’s what I heard way back. Anyways, you have your students creating what, but it’s low tech, which is really cool because a lot of times we think of creating content and it’s kind of high tech, but they’re creating something. And this is for us, like as biology folks, like you’re using kind of like this neuroscience that exists about students, creating an art to help them learn.

Eric Cross (14:55):

And this is something that I, I feel gets missed a lot in. When we talk about the quote unquote, the formal teacher training is the element of how creating an art can actually lead to improved learning in the classroom. It’s something you have to go to like a conference to kind of go and see or something, but it’s not as, it’s not as pervasive everywhere. And that thing about risk averse. I feel like I, you spoke to my own life. What I see ‘cause with my own seventh graders, I see the same fear or anxiety when I ask them to draw. As I do, when I ask them to give me a hypothesis about a phenomenon that I’m gonna teach and I say, it’s okay to be wrong, but I see them drift to the Chromebook and want to Google it. You know what you just said about just try it and you can always change and giving character, I feel like is just a great message for everybody to hear

Valeria Rodriguez (15:48):

Today. Students made fossil, right? ‘Cause They’re learning about rocks and we made using plaster, but then I put the green screen up and not only did they make it and they excavated them, but then we put it on the green screen. And they’re like all of a sudden at a dig site,

Eric Cross (16:04):

What I’m seeing right now for those of you who are listening is, is students who are on, is this on IMO?

Valeria Rodriguez (16:10):

This is on we video

Eric Cross (16:12):

Video and they’re holding up fossils that they made. But in the background, because there was a green screen, there’s an overlay of like a, a rock dig site. So the students legitimately look like they’re paleontologists or something somewhere.

Valeria Rodriguez (16:24):

Exactly. And so it’s, it’s not just creating lines, right? The sketching transfers to so much be because even the want, not wanting to make a mistake with their fossil. One of the kids today, when he took off the, the Plato, ‘cause we put the Plato at the base. Then we put in either a shell or some sort of artifact that they were going to fossilize. And then we put in the plaster when he took off the Plato, a piece broke off and everybody’s like, I can’t believe you broke your fossil. And I’m like, not the first. Okay. Do you know how many of these guys and girls have been out there? And all of a sudden they find a dinosaur bone and they’re walking and they fall. And this fossil that took billions of years is all of a sudden broken. I’m like this selfie, the original selfies, these animals died in commitment to their selfies.

Valeria Rodriguez (17:19):

And here you are dropping the bone. So they were all laughing, but it was to go away from the fact that, oh my God, you broke it. You made a mistake. You drew the wrong line. You asked the wrong question. Like no big deal. Keep digging, shout out to the teachers that try doing the projects that they have. They don’t feel completely comfortable with or you know, that they take risks doing. Because even though in theory, it’s like suggested and schools want that or communities want that when it comes down to it, people also expect us to do things at work. But part of our job is also taking risks. Like we did a tethered weather balloon launch the other day because we couldn’t get approval to release the weather balloon in the atmosphere since we’re near an airport. And it was too short of a time.

Valeria Rodriguez (18:14):

And I remember a parent said, oh, you’re not releasing the balloon. And I was like, well, this is a lot of work too. <Laugh> we, you know, we’re, we’re doing the tethered launch. This is a hard project. So the other day when I heard that comment, like I went back to my class and I was like, you know what? I took a risk to do this project. I could have played it safe with a handout of a weather balloon <laugh> or you know, a YouTube video. It’s it’s the, the fact that we’re continuing to push. And so I wanna like really thank the teachers that keep trying to do the hard things that aren’t like tried and tested because it’s scary. Yeah.

Eric Cross (18:57):

Yeah. There aren’t a lot of opportunities for them to have adults that they see in positions of authority or that they respect or admire model failure. And I don’t mean failure in the, like the negative pejorative sense, but like things just not working out and then seeing how you respond to it, ‘cause you’re modeling, taking a risk. But like with real stakes, it’s authentic. I had students swab the campus and we put it in auger dishes and Petri sealed it up and then let it grow room temperature, but we kept it you know, cool enough at 75 degrees. So it wouldn’t be able to survive any, anything pathogenic. And then students, you know, I took pictures of them and then showed them the results. So the students never interacted with it and some things grew and some things didn’t, it was mostly, you know, fungi and some bacteria, but I showed them like, how come mine didn’t grow? And I was like, well, you know, it could have been how we swabbed. It could have been some things don’t grow the temperature, we kept it at, but some of the experiments didn’t yield the cool results. And that was okay. But I front loaded the expectation so that if everything did go great, sweet, but managing expectation, I found really helps to mitigate the pressure.

Valeria Rodriguez (20:01):

Yeah. Well another project that we’ve participated in is growing beyond earth where we’re planting seeds that contribute to like a huge set of data for cultivars that are being considered for growth on the international space station. And my students are like, well, you know, we just have six little pots, like what is this? And I’m like, yeah, we have two little seeds in each of these pots. And we are one data set in like hundreds of data sets that they’re collecting. But we are contributing two research on the international space station. You don’t have to be the next bill gates or the next, you know, Steve jobs. Like everyone thinks they’re gonna be the next big thing. Like you can also be a seed. That’s part of a really big project and that is okay. Like everyone can’t be the next big thing

Eric Cross (20:48):

And the other. And the other thing, I think what Gladwell talks about this in outliers and there’s another book called bounce, but a lot of the people that we see is successful or famous, we don’t realize that their background and their exposure to things was one of the things that led them there, both jobs and gates had access, you know, gates had access at, at the university of Washington to like one of the first computers and then jobs at, at Hewlett Packard. The story go goes on and on, but we don’t see the lineage of some of these people and where they come from. We just see the end result. You just see LeBron James winning a championship or something. We just want the, the end result the, the glory, but not the sweat that it takes to get there. They don’t, we don’t really see that as much, which leads me to like the next thing I wanted to ask you is how do you, and I kind of saw it just now, but how do you engage your kids in the classroom?

Valeria Rodriguez (21:36):

Well, I think I’m funny. Some of them don’t do

Eric Cross (21:38):

They like the puns

Valeria Rodriguez (21:39):

<Laugh> some of them do. And some of them don’t get them. They get them later. And I see when they get it, I like to engage them by bringing in real people, real examples of things, real research when possible. Right. I can’t put them in a real dig site. So the green screen helps me do that. But one of my students yesterday, other day before was like, you have such cool friends because I’ll say, oh, one of my friends does blah, blah, blah. Or, or, oh, when we go to Kennedy space center, we’re gonna, you know, talk to one of my friends. Who’s doing research on, you know, chilies in space and they’re like, wow, your friends are so cool. And I took that moment to tell them, be mindful of the people that you collect as friends in your life, like make good choices, surround yourself with awesome people, people so that you can share ideas. Like you connect with friends who you inspire you to do more. I try to engage them by giving them examples of things that people around me are doing that connect to what we’re doing. Do

Eric Cross (22:43):

You, do you explicitly or intentionally teach soft skills or is it just something that you just kind of organically do natural or are you mindful about making sure that you’re doing that

Valeria Rodriguez (22:52):

A hundred percent? You have to be explicit about it with amplify? Actually, we, we did a poster for incorporating social, emotional skills and other soft skills into the classroom because sometimes we just like other things like writing and, and reading, you know, we silo all these things in education and the school counselor, can’t be the one to deal with everything. You know, you have to deal with things as they surface. And sometimes my kids ha are frustrated because I ask them to think I don’t have yes or no answers. I have, you know, we are gonna launch a high altitude weather balloon. We don’t know how high it’s gonna go. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. We don’t, we don’t know if we’re gonna find it when the <laugh>, when the balloon bursts and it lands in the ocean, are we gonna find it? Is the GPS tracker gonna work?

Valeria Rodriguez (23:47):

Are we gonna lose all that money? I don’t know, but we have to do all the steps and find out. But with kids, they don’t have the skills yet. And I can’t wait for the counselor to come in and talk about handle the frustration that they’re feeling over. Not knowing the correct question to ask, because by the time they go meet with her, the moments pass, I have to stop and say, Hey, like check in with, with what you’re doing. It’s okay to be frustrated. You can’t take it out on a classmate. You can’t take it out on me.

Eric Cross (24:14):

So you were, you, you were intentional about teaching these skills to your students and you had the relationship. So it makes sense that you were the one to bring it across ‘cause you see them more than anybody does. You know, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve imagined. Teaching is for a long time. It’s been okay, you’re the science content expert. You’re the English expert, but so much as teaching evolves, there are these skills or like EQ emotional intelligence that you kind of have to have kind of coming in. Because like those moments, like no having the presence of mind to stop and why a young person through identifying how they feel, why, where it came from. Those aren’t always covered in those aren’t really covered in your methods classes when you’re in college, getting your, your degree or something. Now when you’re you’re sketch noting and for teachers who are, or one, could you just maybe give like a brief explanation of sketch, noting for somebody who may not be familiar with it, like how I was sketch any different than just drawing a picture randomly or something.

Valeria Rodriguez (25:10):

Okay. So you’re creating visual summaries. You’re using text and images combined in different ways to take notes. And before you know how we had like these shorthand things that the squiggly meant an indent and something else meant something else. And we had these lists of things when they would edit our papers, that represented things. It’s kind of like that for your brain. So you’re making a list of maybe icons or small sketches that represent things for you. So as you’re taking notes, you hear things. And when people talk now and they, they say, you know, I’m on the fence about this. Like I literally see a fence. And when they’re talking, I write the note, it’s almost like a T toe with pointy tops and I put a stick figure on top of it. And so later when I look at it, I think, oh, that’s right. My friend is on the fence about that decision

Eric Cross (26:08):

For a new teacher or even a, a, a experienced teacher. That’s interested in sketch noting, where, where would you recommend? They start like the structurize? Like, do you give creative freedom? Are they doing this paper and pencil vocabulary words? Are they up? Like, what are some just kind of maybe three basic things to kind of get started for someone who was just curious about it.

Valeria Rodriguez (26:29):

So it has to be simple because if it requires a lot of energy to go in, then you’re gonna be more hesitant to do it. For example, I wouldn’t start summarizing a video because it’s moving really fast or a live presentation is really hard. So with students, I would start with here’s a paragraph, make a visual summary of it, or here’s a vocabulary list, make an image to represent each word. Then you would move into, well, you know, here’s a unit summarize the three main topics in unit. Then you can move onto like a little YouTube video. That’s like 10 minutes a Ted talk, make a visual summary of the Ted talk because they can pause it.

Eric Cross (27:11):

Mm. Okay.

Valeria Rodriguez (27:13):

The hardest thing is live presentations, ‘cause in conversations you can say, oh, can you say that again? Sketch, noting. You start seeing how people organize or don’t their thoughts when they speak. Because when you start writing things down and all the information is about one thing and then like two blue ORPS about something else. You’re like, wow, that was really unbalanced. So then when you start teaching, you tell them what you’re gonna tell them, you tell them and then you tell them what you told them. So they can check that they put the notes in the right places and you tell them what you’re gonna tell. So they can prep the pathway that they’re gonna set up their notes and I have to be explicit. And I have to say like, I’m gonna talk about the rock cycle. So if I were you, I would put, you know, these four boxes. Oh, but there’s three types of rocks. See? I’m like, yeah, but magma. So let’s put it in the cycle, you know? And, and then I’m like, if I were you, I would put an arrow from here to here because this is how, you know, after erosion and then, you know, heat and pressure. But then it connects like this. So the arrows are gonna help me to remember the directions

Eric Cross (28:13):

As we wind down. There’s there’s one question I wanna ask you there, you are bringing together this science, the, the art, the social, emotional learning, the relationships with your students outside content, like there’s so many different things that you bring in the classroom that is clearly gonna make you a memorable educator for your kids. It just, it’s just, I’m just listening to your learning environment. And it’s so rich who is one teacher that really expired you. So

Valeria Rodriguez (28:38):

There’s a few people that stand out overall. I had very encouraging teachers. I had that one teacher that didn’t like my drawing <laugh> she also stands out <laugh>

Eric Cross (28:49):

We have those too.

Valeria Rodriguez (28:49):

Yeah. So I have colleagues that stand out to me that inspire me every day to like keep trying. And then I had a teacher in high school who I actually work with her daughter now at the school that I work at. And I didn’t even know her mom would make us write almost the whole class. And it was world history. And I remember hearing her say when she was talking about the Roman empire that it fell because it reached more than it can grab. So it kept extending too far out. And I heard that, like I think about, yes, I can keep reaching for things in education and reaching for things in my classroom. But I have to come back to like, what can I hold? I don’t wanna reach further than what I can hold. And yes, I have to believe in myself. And I tell my students to believe in themselves,

Eric Cross (29:38):

I’m in this, I’m in this sketch noting mindset. Because when you said what Ms. Brown shared with you, I thought of a hand reaching out, but then things kind of slipping through it. And I another hand with like a fist right next to it. So even in our conversation here last hour, I I’m thinking in pictures now. And so I’m like, if I can do it, they can do it. Like if you know, ‘cause I am just not the person who spends a lot of time committing to draw. Because a lot of times when I was that student who tried to draw and we get frustrated and look around and now I feel like this is, I wanna try this again. I wanna share this with my students and encourage them. This is gonna be a lot of fun. I look forward to continuing to see the sketch notes that you do. And maybe I’ll, I’ll show you one of mine. Like eventually I don’t know if you can see that there that’s my stick figures. Those of you who are listening right now, I drew, I was drawing stick figures and taking notes while Blair was dropping all of this, these like gems and wisdom in here. So

Valeria Rodriguez (30:31):

Maybe we can do a challenge that once people hear this podcast, they can tag us somehow in the sketch note that they create I’m in. So we see what they a take from it. Because that’s the other thing about sketch noting, you think you’re emphasizing something and all of a sudden people are walking away with something else that resonated to them. And you’re like, wow. And here I was thinking that this was what we were talking about. And this is what really jumped out at them.

Eric Cross (30:57):

Your kids are lucky that you’re in front of them, not just because of how you teach, but how you access all of these different parts of their creativity and their thinking and apply, integrate all of these soft skills and social, emotional skills and just life skills and your experience connecting them to the outside world. They, and like you said, and how we started, you know, where you started in Panama, the students realized what you represent and what you meant to them. And I feel like your students, when they get older, they may not realize it in the time, but as they get older and reflect back, they’ll be telling stories about you. So yeah. Thanks for making time and thanks for being here.

Valeria Rodriguez (31:34):

Well thank you too, ‘cause I know you’re in the classroom and making time to do other things outside the classroom. Isn’t always easy, but it’s what keeps us going in different ways.

Eric Cross (31:49):

Thanks so much for joining me in Valer today. We wanna hear more about you. If you have any great lessons or ways to keep student engagement high, please email us@stemamplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s TM five.com. Make sure to click, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and join our brand new Facebook group science connections, the community for some extra content.

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What Valeria Rodriguez says about science

“I use [sketchnoting] and I mess up all the time…because I feel that my students don’t want to make mistakes, and drawing is one of those things that taught me that it’s okay to make mistakes.”

– Valeria Rodriguez

Educator, Instructional technologist, and Graphic facilitator

Meet the guest

Valeria is an educator, instructional technologist, graphic facilitator, and dreamer. She currently works as a Science teacher as part of a STEAM Team in Miami, Florida teaching third through fifth graders as a free-lance graphic facilitator. She loves to connect with passionate educators she meets around the country. Valeria has presented and led workshops at educational conferences like SXSWEdu, ISTE, NSTA, NSTA STEM Forum, SHIFTinEDU, FAST, FCIS, and SEEC. When she is not teaching or sketching, Valeria can be found adventuring with her family around the world, training for triathlons, and creating opportunities to empower kids in all kinds of communities. 

You can check Valeria’s work on her website and follow her on Twitter & Instagram.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S3-02: How science strengthens literacy and language development

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In our second episode of the season, we continue finding ways that science is overlooked and how it can be better utilized in schools—and as an ally to other subjects!

We sat down with Susan Gomez Zwiep, former middle school science teacher and senior science educator and staff advocate at BSCS Science Learning. She shared past experiences and research that shows the benefits of integrating science and literacy, as well as strategies for applying these ideas in the classroom.

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (00:00):
We started to see this trend of students communicating more in English because they were excited about the science that they had been learning.

Eric Cross (00:10):
Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host Eric Cross. In this third season, we’re exploring the theme of science as the underdog. And last time around, we delved into the data showing that compared to other subjects, science is often put on the back burner. Now it’s time to explore why it’s so important to change that and how to do it effectively. So over the course of these coming episodes, we’re gonna make the case for science and equip you with data and strategies for advancing science in your own home, school, or community. To kick things off, we’re going to spend a few episodes going in depth on the integration of science and English instruction. We know we need to dramatically improve literacy rates in this country, and as we’ll show in the coming episodes, science can be a key ally in that goal. We’ll also show how language development and literacy instruction can support science. Yes, it can be a win-win, folks. To start out, I’m joined by someone who has been studying science and language development for more than a decade. Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep is a senior science educator and staff advocate for BSCS Science Learning. On this episode, she talks about her own experience as a middle school science teacher and share some key insights and strategies from the research on integrating science and English language development. Please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep.

Eric Cross (01:36):
Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here and having this really important conversation. So I’m so glad you can make it, Susan.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (01:43):
Yeah, I’m excited to be here.

Eric Cross (01:44):
We’re gonna talk all about language development and science. But first I was hoping that you can just kind of set the stage and tell the listeners about yourself and how you came about to studying this specific subject.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (01:57):
Sure. So I am a California native. I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley and that’s where I started teaching. I have an undergraduate degree in integrated biology from UC Berkeley. And I thought I was gonna go be a field scientist. And while I was waiting for grad school applications to run their course, I took a substitute job in Montebello to kind of bide my time. And because I had a science degree, they asked if I would take a permanent placement, well, a temporary permanent placement. And I said sure. And found myself teaching seventh and eighth grade general science to a population that at the time was about 68% English language learners, in a school that you would consider urban, under-resourced with a community that was large percentage immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America. And I never looked back. I kept that job.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (03:04):
I loved it. I love the middle school classroom. I love teaching science to my middle school students and truly, truly just found a really good home for my love of science, but also my love for talking about science and helping other people understand science. So at some point I was entertained with the idea of going to graduate school. So while I was still teaching, I actually did a Ph.D. At the University of Southern California in the science education field. And once there, realized that I actually had a unique experience in higher ed, that experience of teaching with populations that are learning English or have home languages other than English, was actually not common in higher ed circles. And being from that community was also not common. And so I pretty quickly leveraged that experience to combat what I think is universally agreed as an equity issue that in my school where I taught, the district had advocated for ELs to get an extra hour of language development in order to promote their English language proficiency.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (04:28):
And, our principal wisely said, there are not enough English-only students in this school to do that without losing all of our science teachers because there’s not enough kids left to actually fill a day, a teacher’s day. And she said, these kids learn more language in their science courses than they do anywhere else, so I don’t wanna remove that. But the reality is, is that at that time–this was in the late nineties, early two thousands–if you were not proficient in English, you went to more time with language development. And that makes a lot of sense in some ways. But when you look at the big picture, you realize, well, that means those kids aren’t going to science and they’re not having opportunities to have consistent quality science learning opportunities simply because they spoke a language other than English at home. And so that’s really how I fell into this work.

Eric Cross (05:28):
And that has a downstream effect. I mean, once you start pulling students from a course, that automatically sets the trajectory for later outcomes, which we ultimately see in STEM fields where we, we don’t see the population of our students represented in the STEM fields. Now, I know this goes back a few years, but you were doing research for your Ph.D. What did you start to follow?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (05:50):
Yeah, so I eventually took a position at Cal State Long Beach, which was not by chance, it’s a Hispanic-serving institution, and that’s where I wanted to do my academic work. And once I was there, sought funding with a district to support elementary science learning. So it had a teacher professional learning component that was both summer and in-class, sort of like PD in the classroom component. And the district came back and said, the only way you are gonna get time to even talk about science in elementary school is if it’s attached to language development. And so that’s what we did. It was a three-year grant, there was a sister grant that followed–so all told, it was about a five-year program where we basically said, what if instead of following the traditional ELD, English Language Development curriculum, we modified and put science as the context for language development in the K2 bands.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (07:01):
Teachers at the district traditionally had not been excited about their language development curriculum until we said, we’re gonna take that and we’re gonna do some science instead. And then they were like, no, no, no! We love our ELD curriculum. But they hung in there with us. The project was successful enough that it actually became a K4 and then a K5 project. The district ended up having to put in a ton of money into this because the grant only paid for so much. But their schools actually wanted “in” ’cause what they heard is when we put science as a context for language development, kids were talking more. Kids were speaking in English more. Kids were writing more. Kids were engaged. And the ultimate, kids were developing English quickly and in a community where you could actually operate within the community without speaking English. These are Spanish-speaking communities and the schools operated in Spanish outside the classroom. So if you walked into the school’s office, the principal secretary, the person who manned the door, spoke Spanish. The field supervisors that the lunch supervisors spoke Spanish.

Eric Cross (08:17):
The non-teaching staff that are supporting the rest of the students outside of the classroom.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (08:23):
Yeah. Everybody spoke Spanish and they spoke Spanish at school. And even the principals came back and said, from being in this project, that the kids were coming into the office and had transitioned to communicating in English, especially when they wanted to talk about science, and they really wanted to talk about science ’cause they were super excited about the stuff that they were learning. So we started to see this trend of students communicating more in English because they were excited about the science that they had been learning. And yeah, that sold itself and we had schools jumping in.

Eric Cross (09:01):
So you started off in a situation where you were told that you had to, if you wanna get science and you had to merge it into English, basically. And is it fair to say that that’s because of testing requirements that schools have on them? Like this is what gets analyzed or what was the purpose behind that?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (09:15):
It was district policy and it was site policy and those policies were put into place for very good intentions. Students don’t get reclassified into English only, and reclassification is how you traditionally got access to all this other programming, electives, AP college prep, all those other things. And the best way to get them reclassified was to learn English, and to learn it sooner rather than later. So it was in an attempt to get kids reclassified from English learner to English proficient.

Eric Cross (09:55):
And then during that process it was able to be expanded to K4. And then with these open-minded teachers, you gave them the content, they used science as the context for learning. And then your students who were mostly emerging bilinguals and multilingual students, you found that they started speaking English more frequently. What did you make of that result? Like what did you come to after seeing all that happen?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (10:20):
So I do wanna say that there’s a couple of reasons why we think this works so well. But I have to really acknowledge that there were linguistics, second language acquisition experts that were part of this team. And we wouldn’t have been able to make any of this work if it was purely science educators leading this cause. There’s a lot we didn’t understand about language development, and they really helped us. But one of the things that we think is unique about science, there’s a few really important aspects–one is that we all have experiences in the natural world, since we can process outside information, right? We all have observations, things we’ve observed with our eyes, we’ve heard, we’ve felt, and all of those experiences build some pretty good science ideas before we enter formal schooling. You know, kids already have ideas about this.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (11:20):
We don’t have to give them language for it. They already have these concepts and experiences. The other thing is that we are inherently interested in the natural world we occupy. And so we’re curious, science is often considered cool, there are science channels and science fiction movies and science fiction books and magazines–and this is just … it’s just cool. And that tended to be the trigger, you know, when we gave kids something interesting to observe. A Ziploc bag with water that we added an Alka-Seltzer to, and strange things starts happening in the baggie. That curiosity, that excitement allowed kids to leap over any concerns they had about the language they were supposed to use in the classroom. One of the most difficult things about learning a language is using a language that is imperfect. So saying things and communicating in a language that you are not a hundred percent confident about, that you’re not sure you’re using the right words or the right tenses. But when kids were excited about this thing in a Ziploc bag, they didn’t care. They communicated however they could, sometimes in their primary language or their home language, sometimes in imperfect English, but by and large they just communicated. They did it in oral language, like listening and speaking, but they also did it in writing. And that was easy. Like we didn’t have to do anything other than provide interesting science experiences. And that’s, that’s pretty common.

Eric Cross (13:06):
Yeah. I feel like, to co-sign on the science is cool, it is objectively, if a matter of fact, even just looking at the Oscars, like we have multiverse, you know, we have sci-fi you know, the costume designer of Wakanda Forever. We have all of these different movies that are all founded in some kind of these scientific principles. And so the idea that science is cool and organic, naturally engaging is something I think we, we all can connect to and it resonates with all of us. So I feel like is sort of your origin story too.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (13:33):
That’s the origin story.

Eric Cross (13:34):
That’s the origin story right there, to continue with this like movie theme. Now if we fast forward to today, based on all the research that you’ve seen since then, and your experience, why would you advocate merging English language development and science?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (13:49):
Well, for one, the research that we conducted actually provided some really nice evidence that showed, even though we had essentially stole minutes from language development time and inserted science. And on state mandated tests and on their students’ language proficiency measures, the kids in the program with the blended, did significantly better than students who were getting ELD instruction alone. Traditional ELD instruction. And that kind of blew our mind. We would’ve been happy if they had done just fine. Like we could put science into a student’s day and do no harm. They could get their language development; they could get science. But in fact, what we found was that they did better. That they actually gained English more quickly and it showed up in multiple measures, including the state English language arts assessment, which again, kind of blew our mind.

Eric Cross (14:55):
So just to be clear about the study that you did, you looked at two groups and one was the blended science and English language development, and then the other one was a control group. And the blended group ended up showing more improvement.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (15:09):
Yes. So there’s quite a bit of research now, this research was done in the early two thousands, and the research has built around it to really suggest that this does seem to be a more efficient way to promote language development while still maintaining students’ access to a core content area. But in recent years, the standards have shifted and that has been just a remarkable, wonderful change. And both standards have shifted. So when we did our research, we did it under the old California Science standards that were fairly heavy in technical terms. They were heavy in science concepts rather than kids doing things. And they were a much narrower focus.

Eric Cross (16:04):
And these are the standards that most of us grew up on, right? Those of us who are pretty much teachers in the classroom today pretty much grew up on what you’re talking about. Is that fair to say?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (16:12):
That’s fair to say, yes. So the new standards that we have now, the California NGSS Standards emphasize not just ideas, but they also emphasize students doing things in science. And we didn’t have to build-in language portions to the standards. They now exist. The NGSS is a very, very rich linguistic opportunity for students. And at the same time, the way we’ve thought about language development has also shifted. We used to talk about language and science… we used to think about science as a lot of words, and you had to know the words, you had to have this technical language. And we’ve sort of shifted that to really thinking about, language is no longer a prerequisite for science learning. Language is now developed through the science learning or the content learning experiences.

Eric Cross (17:11):
So now there’s more chances to integrate English into science. Have you seen success stories or have you seen examples of this? Maybe just anecdotes of teachers kind of doing this since you’ve been doing this research and kind of watching. If so, would you mind sharing one or two?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (17:30):
Yeah. And I will just give a nod to Dr. Dr. Okie Lee who’s now at NYU who has really led sort of this reconception of language and science. And one of the ways she talks about it is this notion that I enter this learning experience, I enter this observation of this phenomena with fairly naive, simple scientific ideas. And my language about it is equally simple. But as I develop more and more ideas, as my understanding of the phenomenon, what I figured out becomes more sophisticated, I need more sophisticated language. And so what we’re starting to see are these spaces where teachers are building science ideas and science and understanding along with the language. And in order to do that, you really need to know what’s the storyline arc of my science lesson? What do they figure out in lesson one? What do they figure out in lesson two?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (18:35):
What do they figure out in lesson three? How are the science ideas building over time? So that I can then look at the language that they’re using and what language supports do I need in order to allow students to not only engage and figure things out, but communicate their ideas about it. And so we’re seeing teachers blow up what we call language, what we call text. It’s not just words. It’s not just sentences written on a paper, but it’s models, it’s pictorial representations, it’s gestures, it’s this wide range. We pretty much said, let’s blow language up. Let’s like use all of the linguistic registers that we have in order to make meaning of what we’re seeing it in together in this classroom. So that’s one thing that we’re starting to see. The other thing is that teachers are really allowing students opportunities to use what we call social language, non-standard dialects.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (19:40):
The language I use at home and with my friends. Because earlier I had said, we have all these experiences and those experiences in the world are tied up in my social register. They’re tied up in my home language ’cause that’s where I experience them. And to let students have access to using that language in the classroom, especially initially in a unit, means we’re giving ’em access to those experiences that they have that are related to the phenomena under study. So I totally understand the benefit of promoting academic language and promoting language frames and forms that we use in more academic settings. But it’s a sticky wicket. You have to be careful how you tell students about the way you want them to communicate. Because when we tell them that language that you use at home with your friends and family is not welcome here, we can send a message that they’re not welcome here. And that those experiences that they have outside of classroom about how things fall, the way sunlight heats up different surfaces, where you’ll find plants and what plants you will find based on conditions. All of those experiences, we’re sending a message that those are not welcome in the classroom. And so this expansion of language, including non-standard dialects and even home language, is really important for letting students bring their whole selves into the classroom.

Eric Cross (21:23):
I love what you just said. It legitimizes the funds of knowledge, the language, the cultures that our students are bringing to the table. I remember when I first learned the word code-switching in college and you know, I’m biracial, I grew up in my home community and my school community were two different communities and I ethnically, culturally belonged to both. And I had to code-switch in order to kind of survive and be accepted into different communities. And not until I was in college did I actually understand what I was doing. Now there were all kinds of teasing and jokes that went on to how I would talk if I code-switched improperly. And in my classroom, I would see students who would explain concepts in a way that was maybe like a casual register. They just were explaining it the best way they could.

Eric Cross (22:10):
And the way they were speaking was kind of denigrated or it was seen as negative even though they were communicating their concept. And when I became a middle school teacher, one of my, I don’t know, it’s like sometimes when you teach, you get to, you change how you were taught or what you experience and legitimizing my students’ language, and they would tell these beautiful stories and in their most common like, casual language, but they’re explaining the concept brilliantly. And it was phenomenal to see this barrier be removed of saying, you have to talk like this in order to be a scientist or you have to say these right words. And, and that’s what I feel like I’m hearing that in how you’re describing kind of how science has been done and what language can do to certain groups of students.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (22:58):
Yeah, very much so. And you know, back to the origin story, you know, I grew up in a multi-generational household. My mom, my aunt, my grandmother, Spanish was their first language, but they lost it because my mom was raised in Riverside and she, you know, went to school in the, the fifties and sixties and back then you weren’t allowed to speak Spanish at school. And so they lost the language.

Eric Cross (23:27):
They weren’t allowed to speak it at all.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (23:29):
At all. I didn’t directly observe it, but that is the story that my family tells, that there was no English spoken anywhere on school grounds. And that was a different issue. Right? That was very much for people unfamiliar with some of the history in Southern California. Their segregated schools, severe racism, linguistic racism, racial racism against Mexicans was a real thing. But yet I grew up in this household where the sort of way of speaking, like I think many Mexican households, the context is everything. So you can’t get to the facts until you’ve told the whole context of everything happening around it. So we used to joke that we couldn’t send my grandmother to the doctor by herself ’cause he had 15 minutes, and she was gonna take 20 just to tell him how she got there before she got to why she was there. But this telling of the context, the telling of the story around the idea is part of the linguistic, this sort of linguistic way of my household. When I got to school, I had to learn to drop it because teachers found me off topic. You know, I still have to be careful how I express things and sometimes I’m not a fast storyteller <laugh>, and I monitor that for myself. So I can only imagine what it’s like to be a kid in a classroom.

Eric Cross (24:59):
Right. And there are so many constraints in the school day, you know, especially if you’re multi-subject and you’re elementary and you’re teaching multiple subjects and someone’s trying to tell a story and you’re just like, land the plane! And they’ve, you know, gotta tell ’em the story, but realizing that when you look at it through a lens of like, culturally, this is how we communicate, then it reframes what the student is trying to do. They’re communicating to you based on how they’ve learned to communicate and they’re including essential parts of the story. And so how do you both honor that while also, you know, certain things like brevity and being concise and things like that that they’ll have to learn. But also honoring that and making sure that there’s space for that in your classroom. Even me, I’m thinking about this where I had students record this video and it was one minute to two-and-a-half minutes explaining three concepts. And I had students coming up to me afterwards saying, Mr. Cross, I need to record two videos because two-and-a-half minutes is not long enough. And I was like, how? I even extended it. But I’m realizing and listening to you and going, they’re probably not just getting to the point. They’re probably including more context into this because that’s how they story tell and that was actually part of the lesson.

Eric Cross (26:12):
So now I need to go back and extend their time that I’ve given them for <laugh> that project. I wanna come back to kind of, since we’re on this topic about why this is also an equity issue. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we were talking about language, you touched on this a bit, and we were talking about integrating into science, but can we go a little bit further into how this integrated approach maybe can benefit English language learners in particular? And maybe anything else that’s related to equity that comes to mind.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (26:40):
So there’s a couple of layers of the equity issue. The most tangible and clear is student access. If we wait until students develop English proficiency to allow them access to quality science learning, we lose a tremendous number of students that could not only could they benefit from science, we could benefit from their entering this science conversation. And I was at a university and I was in a college of natural sciences and we were dedicated to increasing the diversity of the faculty. And it was a struggle ’cause the number of Ph.D. science ed or biology or chemistry academics that come from marginalized populations is very, very small. And it’s not by accident. You know, the number of students that make it into the next level, that make it into college prep courses, that make it into STEM majors, that complete STEM majors and go on to either careers or advanced degrees narrows at every possible step.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (28:01):
And so the equity issue is really one of access. And as basic as that is, it’s the easiest to solve. So that’s the first layer of equity. But the second issue around equity is how we engage these students once they’re in this space. Do we make it possible for them to see themselves as a scientist or an engineer? Are we creating learning experiences that not only allow them to use all the sense-making resources that they have, but do we make them feel like they’re valuable and useful in that space? Because there’s a lot of people that will say, I could be successful as a scientist, but I’m not willing to give up who I am in order to do that. And that’s a real thing. There’s a lot of research about like, why are they leaving? Like why, you know, is it because they’re not able?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (29:05):
Is it because they don’t see themselves as being capable? And now I think we’re looking at this as a different issue. It’s not that students don’t see themselves as capable and not that they’re not achieving. They see the cost that it will take to enter these fields and essentially not be able to be their full selves. So that’s the second equity issue. And in both cases we lose. As a society, we lose. We lose access to the full range of human resources that we have, and we lose access to their unique perspectives that they would bring to real problems facing us. It’s like all hands-on deck. We need to stop making it too difficult to participate in the conversation and we need to be more inclusive about how we invite these other perspectives and how we respect and utilize their ways of sense-making. That may not be Western science ways that we have in our books now, but hopefully those science materials are gonna change and we’re gonna start to see other ways of sense-making and other people involved in the stories that we tell around science concepts.

Eric Cross (30:29):
And just to be clear, this practice in integration, while it lifts up equity for marginalized or underrepresented groups or students who are emerging bilinguals or students who typically we don’t see representation of, this approach also benefits native speakers as well. Correct?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (30:47):
Yeah. And there’s actually a group of native speakers that come from text poor homes. It’s typical in underserved communities. Poor people living in poverty that may be native English speakers. They may not be marginalized populations. But they don’t have access to like text. And so that’s another group altogether that needs linguistic support. And then once you have all voices in the room contributing, everybody benefits because now the conversation, the building understanding conversation we’re having or the sense-making conversation that we’re having has everybody involved. And we all benefit from that.

Eric Cross (31:33):
And we see, I think one of the benefits about a country like the U.S., is we have such a heterogeneous group of people. And when we’re moving in the same direction, we’re all coming to the same problem, but from different perspectives and we’re able to come up with more innovative and novel solutions to them. And that’s kind of what I’m hearing is like as we generate scientists that are all coming from different backgrounds, we’re gonna be able to solve future problems, current problems a lot more effectively because nobody has a monopoly on perspective. Nobody has a monopoly on knowledge or the fastest way to do something or the best way to do something.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (32:11):
Right. Right. And traditionally we really have privileged particular experiences, particular ways of sense-making particular linguistic registers. And if we could just kind of put that privileged ways aside and open up space for everybody to feel like they have a voice, I think the next generation could change the world. I think they could solve some real problems. I’m truly hopeful that they would see themselves not just as capable, but as necessary in these pursuits.

Eric Cross (32:50):
So what does it actually look like today to do this work in instruction well? So to integrate the science, to integrate literacy, to take the benefits of the things that we’ve been talking about. What are some practical things that educators could do to get started, whether it’s in early, you know, K5 or middle school or even high school.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (33:13):
So I will say, I’m gonna kind of separate ’cause in the elementary space, students are primarily developing literacy in multiple languages. The language of the classroom, typically English, home language, languages, they may be multilingual. In the secondary setting where students tend to have developed social language in some language, it’s a little different. So I’m gonna kind of separate those two. So for elementary spaces where teachers tend to teach multiple things, I recommend that you get a partner. Don’t do this work alone. You cannot do this work alone. I mean you can, but it’s very frustrating and not nearly as much fun. So you really wanna take a look at what is the science that kids are going to be engaged in. Because when we look at science first and build language development around it, the experience tends to be more authentic and organic.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (34:18):
And what we used to do is we used to, like when we were talking about the science, we’d monitor the language we were using and then use that to say these are the registers. This is the language that we use when we were thinking about this. So if students are gonna use this, these are the scaffolds they’re gonna need. ‘Cause to do it, well, to do it efficiently, the scaffolds need to be specific to the science learning. So if we’re doing cause and effect, those are specific linguistic scaffolds that are different than if, say we’re doing model and systems and systems models, those are a whole other slew of scaffolds. And so you wanna be really tending to, what is the science being discussed and what is the language that kids are going to use and build scaffolds around it.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (35:10):
And then you also wanna think about what is the social language? What are the experience that kids will have either in words or pictures that I can leverage in this space. And then you wanna do that for the arc of the unit and slowly increase sophistication around those linguistic supports, as well as the science learning. But if kids have social language and they’re now in, there’s a group we call long-term English learners who have not been reclassified way beyond what the typical reclassification is. And that actually is important to think about because if you think about the kinder group, the group of kindergartners that enter a school when they’re five or six, those kids are going to go from grade to grade to grade. And as students develop proficiency, will get reclassified and they move out of this group that we’re still calling English learners.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (36:10):
So by the time you get to like seventh, eighth, ninth grade, if they’re still students in that category, they have very different needs on average than the group we started with. Often when we talk about secondary or these long-term English learners, we can leverage social language a lot more, but have to build the scaffolds more carefully around, for lack of a better word, the more academic content transferring that those social nonverbal language into more sophisticated forms. I think in any setting, you wanna utilize your resources. If I’m in a secondary space and I have a language development teacher and I’m not talking to her or him or they, that’s a problem. You need to go talk to the other people that have these same kids and talk to them about, how are you engaging in language, what are you doing?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (37:07):
Because you know, you could actually have a lesson, maybe this is a lesson about energy and you’re using a model and the kids are creating an initial model. And over in ELD land, they’re doing some linguistic supports. They’re working on some forms and functions of language. You could talk about the catapult, you could talk about the solar heater. You could use the context of the science conversation, which has a whole bunch of tangible experiences. You know, there’s the solar heater in front of you. I don’t need to keep it all in my head ’cause it’s in front of me and we can point to things and talk about things by manipulating the materials. And then I can take all of that and my ELD partner can use that as context when available. But it takes collaboration, but it’s collaboration well spent. And it’s more challenging in the initial phases of the collaboration. Once you kind of the get into the groove, it becomes a lot easier.

Eric Cross (38:16):
The meta of this, as we talk about integrating science and literacy is, and this is great advice, but it’s basically integrate your science teachers with your English teachers and co-plan and do this work together. It’s a force multiplier. One, you’re both, you’re getting two specialists together. It also, I’m just listening to just the parallels. It also resembles what you actually do in the STEM fields of collaboration working together to problem-solve, and you’re modeling for your students what you want to happen. And if I was an administrator listening to this, someone who had control, like master schedules and things like that, there also needs to be space created for these teachers to talk to each other and plan and do all these other things to kind of maybe come up with like interdisciplinary units or even just meet and begin the conversation. It just seems like such great advice.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (39:07):
Yeah. We’re professionals. We have academic degrees and credentials and experience in the classroom and yet more often than not, we leave it to the students in the seats to make the connections between my class and the class they go to next. And that’s not fair. We need to be talking to each other. So if we’re talking about argumentation, argumentation in science and argumentation in ELA and argumentation in math–we’re not even talking about the same thing. I mean, cognitively we’re talking about taking some evidence and creating a claim and supporting it, but what we mean by evidence is very different in the different disciplines. What counts as more convincing evidence changes. And yet we assume that because we say evidence in one class, the kids know what we’re talking about. And the kids are sitting there going, which one is this? Which evidence are you talking about? Because last period it was something else. And so I think we also need to really consider who’s in the best position to clarify the connections and the integration because we leave it to kids more often than not right now.

Eric Cross (40:19):
I agree. Just having those conversations and defining your terms and agreeing on them just to make it easier for students. ‘Cause you’re right, they are left to make those connections or bridge the gaps. And when you have an education system for many schools, I think most of us, it’s still pretty siloed. You’re still kind of like, especially when you’re in secondary, it’s we’re doing this or even elementary, different times of the day you do different subjects, versus the way that we experience life itself or even our professions. We’re actually integrating science and math and reading and writing throughout the day, and ebbs and flows going back and forth. And without making those explicit connections, we’re leaving a lot of things to chance, hoping that the learning’s there in such a valuable moment. Before we go, I’m wondering if you have a parting message for listeners about the topic of integrating science and literacy. You’ve already said so many amazing things, but you have the platform speaking to educators and folks out there. What would you wanna say to them?

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (41:18):
This is not an easy endeavor. The system that we operate in does not make this effort easy, but it is worth it. It is worth it to the kids in our classrooms. It is worth it to the building of a scientific community and a scientifically literate populace. It’s important to solving problems in the future. It’s important to have kids feel like regardless of how they say things, that they belong in a classroom. If we can relax the sort of linguistic demands on kids and let them enter science learning in a way that allows them to use all their resources and they’re curious, they can really leverage both areas in a way that they don’t do individually. It’s really hard to think about what it is I’m trying to say if I’m worried about how I have to say it. And so we really need to think about, when are those times that we’re gonna let kids just tell us what it is that they’re excited about and when is it that we’re going to help them craft a more formalized language around those ideas. Right now we do a really good job at that second half. We need to do better at the first.

Eric Cross (42:46):
Susan, thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your expertise and your wisdom and your passion for serving the students and for bringing everybody to the table through language and through science. We really appreciate it and the listeners will too.

Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep (43:03):
Thank you so much. This is my favorite topic.

Eric Cross (43:06):
Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep, senior science educator and staff advocate at BSCS Science Learning. And please remember to subscribe to Science Connections so that you don’t miss any of the episodes in this exciting third season. And while you’re there, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more listeners find the show. Next time on the show, we’re going to continue exploring the how and why of integrating science and literacy instruction.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
When we interview scientists, they spend a lot of their time reading the work of other scientists and writing their findings, writing grant proposals, presenting at conferences. A huge part of the work of a scientist is not just at a bench conducting experiments, but even if you’re conducting experiments, you’re using your literacy processes to think about what you’re seeing in your experiment.

Eric Cross (43:57):
That’s next time on Science Connections. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep says about science

“When we used science as a context for language development, kids were talking more, kids were writing more, kids were engaged.”

– Dr. Susan Gomez Zwiep

Senior Science Educator, BSCS Science Learning

Meet the guests

Susan Gomez Zwiep began her career in science education as a middle school science teacher in Los Angeles where she spent over 12 years working in urban schools. Prior to joining BSCS, Susan worked at California State University, Long Beach as a Professor of Science Education.

Susan has also worked as a Regional Director for the K-12 Alliance, providing high-quality professional development in science and mathematics for K12 educators, including the CA NGSS Early Implementer Initiative. Susan consistently works toward establishing equitable access for all students to rigorous, inquiry-based science instruction and supporting teachers in their journey to become advocates for students, science education, and their own professional development.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S3 – 06. Bethany and Dan take on Twitter!

Promotional graphic for Math Teacher Lounge Season 3, Episode 6, featuring Bethany Lockhart Johnson, Educator, and Dan Meyer, Director of Research at Desmos.

In this episode, Bethany and Dan take a look at several tweets that caught the most fire on Twitter during the 2021-2022 school year. The pair answer questions about viral teaching methods, the best teaching advice you can give in three words, and if students should use pencils or pens in class. Join them as they take on those questions and several others in a fast-paced episode.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:02):

Hey folks. Welcome back to the Math Teacher Lounge. I’m your co-host, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I am Bethany Lockhart Johnson. And I’m your co-host, Dan! Hi!

Dan Meyer (00:12):

We’re co-hosts! Hey! Great to see you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:13):

Dan, this is the last episode of Season 3. Three seasons!

Dan Meyer (00:19):

It’s gotta have a cliffhanger. What will the cliffhanger be? You know?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:22):

The cliffhanger is that we love having guests! It’s one of our most favorite things, because selfishly, we love to talk to all of these amazing folks who are doing this interesting research and thinking about amazing things. But for this last episode, it’s just you and I, Dan. Cliffhanger!

Dan Meyer (00:40):

Yeah. I like this. I like this. So the cliffhanger was last episode, and people are all like, “So who’s the last guest gonna be of the season before we roll out into summer?” And yes, as Bethany said, we love all the fascinating guests we’ve had on throughout these last few seasons. And we realized…who is more fascinating to each other than both of us? You know, let’s talk to each other about things, right? <Laughs> You get that! You get that! Or am I alone here in this? We had this idea about what we should talk about here, and that’s this: I am on Twitter a lot. I’m @DDMeyer on Twitter; throw me a follow; might follow back; who knows? I don’t tweet much. Bethany, what’s your handle on Twitter? Let ’em know.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:22):

I’m @LockhartEdu, and I was much more active pre-mamahood. But I’m still up in there. Go ahead.

Dan Meyer (01:30):

Yep. In there. Yeah, great. So I’ve been keeping track of the hottest conversations in math education Twitter, the conversations that the most people who kind of describe themselves as math teachers in their bios and whatnot have been replying to. We’ve got some little things working in the background, keeping track of this sort of thing. And so we are gonna bring you folks some of those extremely hot conversations, and even better than the questions—which we hope you’ll reply to and tag us in your replies—even more than those questions, we’ll bring you our answers—our answers!—to those questions. Can you believe that? We’ll fully settle these questions! Won’t we, Bethany? My gosh, won’t we?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:15):

Jeez Louise! No! Dan Meyer, the point is not our final word on it! The point is this episode, we’re furthering the conversation. We wanna hear from listeners about what do you think?

Dan Meyer (02:25):

Right. You’re right. You all need someone in your life like Bethany who will help you become the best version of yourself. So here’s the deal. We have several questions in a few different categories. We’re gonna bust through some quick ones, pretty quick. And, uh, there’s some meaty ones as well. Let’s get into it! The first questions come to you all, and us, courtesy of MTL guest Howie Hua, who has a renowned knack for just creating math memes, but also conversation starters that really capture the curiosity and answers of of a grateful nation. So Howie’s first question, which I’ll pose to Bethany, is, “What’s your favorite number?” Bethany? And why is it your favorite number?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:14):

Oh, I love it. OK. Well, the first thing that came to my mind is 12. ‘Cause It’s a highly divisible number. I mean, 2, 6, 3, 4—I love it. And it coincides with the day and month of my birth. Which, like, the double-digit…come on, 12, 12, 12, 12. I dunno, am I giving away, like, my bank security code <laugh> or anything by saying that?

Dan Meyer (03:41):

Yeah. What’s your favorite PIN?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:43):

Let me change my PIN. Yeah, it’s just such a happy, happy number. Well, 12 is, you know, 10 and 2. Two more. Anyway. Love it. What about you, Dan? What’s your favorite number and why?

Dan Meyer (03:55):

I’m into it. I’m into it. I think I would choose 16. Because it’s the first number for me when it was like, “Oh, you can keep on making numbers forever!” Where I’m like, OK, 2times 2 is 4. Great. That’s kind of an elemental expression in mathematics. Four times 2 is 8. OK. But then, 8 times 2 is 16, and it’s like, “Oh, you can just keep doubling that thing over and over and over again!” And I can recall feeling pretty excited that numbers are just like, out there for the finding. For the taking. Cool stuff.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:33):

I’m sorry. Wait, I have to interrupt. You went 2 times 4 is 8 and you didn’t go 4 times 4 is 16? You went 8 times 2 is 16? You wanted to keep the 2 the same?

Dan Meyer (04:49):

Yup. Yup. You can keep on doubling. You can keep on doubling numbers and it just keeps on going.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:53):

More evidence that our brain works very differently.

Dan Meyer (04:56):

We learn more about each other…let me keep this rolling with Howie questions. OK? Howie says, “If you could co-teach with one teacher from Twitter, who would you choose?”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:06):

Oh, oh, it has to be a teacher?

Dan Meyer (05:11):

Or anybody, I guess. I mean, like, I know you love Oprah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:15):

Can I co-teach with Oprah?

Dan Meyer (05:16):

Yup, yeah, so there we are. <Laugh> Yup. OK. Fair enough. We have to work Oprah into every single episode.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:23):

I’d just love to sit and like, we’d read together, we’d read to the students, and then we’d talk…I mean, obviously it’d be Oprah. But if we’re thinking more of like MTBoS, like math Twitter blogosphere-land, I suppose the person I would wanna co-teach with honestly would probably be Allison Hintz. One of our former guests as well. Her book, Mathematizing Children’s Literature, with Antony Smith, that book—I just love the idea of sitting and doing a read-aloud and then diving into some juicy math that’s inspired by what comes out of that read-aloud. So yes, that’s who I pick. Allison! Let’s co-teach!

Dan Meyer (06:00):

<Laugh> Shout-out to Allison.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:01):

What about you?

Dan Meyer (06:03):

I would choose MTL guest Idil Abdulkadir—because, and this relates to Allison and also Elham Kazemi—they talked about, in our episode about teacher time-outs. And I’m choosing someone who I think is—like I’ve never seen Idil teach, but I work with Idil at Desmos and think she’s fantastic. But what I really want in a co-teacher is someone that I can say, “Whoa, time out, do you see what’s going on here? This is really interesting. What should we do next about this?” And have a little strategy sesh in front of the kids and no one gets freaked out by that. And I think that that’d be a pile of fun. Idil seems like she’d be receptive to that kind of interaction, teacher to teacher. So that’s my vote right there.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:48):

Opportunity for you to grow your own practice, Dan.

Dan Meyer (06:52):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. 100%.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:56):

So Dan, I actually have a question for you from Howie. If we’re on the Howie tweet train, I have one from Howie too.

Dan Meyer (07:04):

Howie had some fire tweets, some fire tweets this current year. Yep.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:08):

Dan, I wanna know: Do you prefer doing math in pen or pencil?

Dan Meyer (07:16):

Ooh, yeah. Oh, I see that Howie says, “I don’t mean to start any drama, BUT,” and then asks the question–

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:23):

But!

Dan Meyer (07:24):

I think that Howie lives for drama. I think he knows he’s messy. He lives for drama. He knows what he’s doing this with this question here. He knows.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:32):

DRAAAAMAAAA!

Dan Meyer (07:32):

He knows what he’s doing. Yup. So I would just say it depends. Is that cheating? Like if I’m doing math to learn, or if we are learning in that process, then I want to use pen, actually. I wanna see the tracks of the thinking. And if we’re doing it for presentation, like if I’m presenting something, I wanna…I guess that’s an area where I’d be fine to not erase things. I don’t wanna prep it so it’s, you know…I guess you could use pen for presentation also. Just pen. Period. But I wanna see the tracks of the thinking if we’re doing some learning versus presentation. What about you?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:09):

Well, I heard the voice in my head telling one of my kindergartners, “No, you cannot do that in sparkly pen. You need to do it in pencil.” And I was like, “Wait, whose voice is that?” It was one of my math teachers telling me I couldn’t do it in pen! Why couldn’t this kid do it in pen? Sure! Do it in a sparkly pen! So I wanna say do it in pen. And since usually pen is what I have around…I mean, I do crosswords in pen, Dan.

Dan Meyer (08:36):

Wow, wow. With a piece of paper and math, you have lots of room to re-revise and cross off…but those little, little boxes on the crossword, that says a lot about your commitment to pen.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:46):

I got really good at making an A into an H or a P or whatever we need. So I would say, “Hey, if you’re in the room with your kiddos and you’re doing math, if somebody wants to do pen, let them do pen.” But I do know that I’ve seen teachers say you need to do pen so that I can see all of your thinking. So I think I hear what you’re saying. But do you think it should be like a classroom rule or something?

Dan Meyer (09:13):

Oh, no, no, no. I mean, I’m gonna ask you like, “How’d you get to this destination?” And I wanna know process somehow, and I think you’ll get tired of having to explain it verbally rather than just, like, showing. Just don’t erase stuff. Don’t scratch stuff off. Let’s let’s see how you’re getting there. That is what I’m into.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:30):

Thanks, Howie, for that trio of thought-provoking tweets, because I genuinely wanted to know what Dan thought and what our listeners think. I mean, Dan, I gotta say: Howie, you say you don’t wanna cause drama, but I gotta say I’m with Dan on that—

Dan Meyer (09:50):

Got the gift. Got the gift for drama. We’re still friends though. So I’m happy about that. Our next section, I got a few more questions queued up here and these ones relate to advice for educators, advice for yourself. Good advice, bad advice, that kind of thing. So let’s jump in. I would love to know—this one’s from Pernille Ripp—I’m very curious, Bethany, what is the worst teaching advice you have gotten in your life, ever?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:19):

<Laugh> Ooh. OK. Um, worst teaching advice was: “That’s OK, just move on anyway.” And that was in terms of pacing. It was like, students needed to do a deeper dive and the teacher who I was chatting with said, “No, no, it’s fine; it’s fine; just move on. Just move on to the next chapter.” That was probably the worst advice, because no, I don’t think that’s what I should have done at all! <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (10:48):

Right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:48):

But I was a first-year teacher and I was trying to figure it out. And I learned that that was not good advice. And I understand the pressure of pacing. But it was totally antithetical to the type of listening to my students that I want to do in my craft. And this teacher meant well, but that was not good advice, teacher! <Laugh> What about you, Dan? What is the worst teaching advice?

Dan Meyer (11:13):

I dig that. That feels similar to one of the replies to Pernille here. Frances Klein says, “Never let them know you’ve made a mistake” being particularly bad advice. You know, just this like idea of like moving along, covering your tracks, not backtracking or admitting mistakes, those all feel kind of a piece. The worst advice I think I’ve ever received, and I wasn’t given this often, but it’s echoed by a lot of the commenters here on this tweet, which is “Don’t smile until X, Y, or Z,” where X, Y, and Z are like Christmas, October, December, January. Just the idea that you’ve gotta develop—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:54):

Wait, what?

Dan Meyer (11:55):

<Laugh> Did you never hear this from anybody? Don’t smile until Christmas? Perhaps this is more—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:59):

I’m a kindergarten teacher! Can you imagine? If I don’t smile the second they walk in? The tears?! The parents’ tears?! The kids’ tears?! If I’m just like, stoic?

Dan Meyer (12:07):

Yeah. Well.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:08):

So explain it to me.

Dan Meyer (12:10):

Well, the idea is, is that, you know, for older kids, they’re scoping you, they’re clocking you for weakness, they’re looking at you, they’re looking to take advantage. And so “don’t smile until Christmas” is like, hey, you can always relax. You can always relax your discipline, but you can’t UN-relax it if you start out, you know, Mr. Happy Pants Meyer. Which—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:33):

Smile perceived as weakness.

Dan Meyer (12:36):

Yeah. Very obviously poor advice. Eventually you come to realize that like having a rapport and a relationship that is trusting and warm and demanding, that has high expectations, that’s the best kind of classroom management. Not some kind of persona built around intimidation or stoicism, that kinda thing. So, terrible, terrible advice!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:01):

I feel like I did have a few of those math classes. Yeah.

Dan Meyer (13:04):

Yeah, exactly. <Laugh> You loved them, right? They were like your favorite math classes. It was a blast, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:11):

<Laugh> So we have to ask the opposite. Thank you, Daniel Willingham, who said, “What’s the best advice you got?” But hold on, Dan, he didn’t just want the best advice. He wanted the best advice in three words.

Dan Meyer (13:26):

Oh yeah. He doesn’t, he doesn’t want a book or dissertation or even a blog post or even a tweet. He wants just three words.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:32):

I think maybe that might have been to me. <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (13:34):

This is someone who’s doesn’t have much time for this advice, wants it distilled down. I’m just obviously stalling here as I try to think about this. I don’t know, there’s just like so much nuance lost here. I would say, listen to students, listen to students. I can’t say more that, I guess. I guess I’m done. I can’t say more than that there. But you’re in a bad place if you’re not listening carefully to students. How about you?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:04):

  1. Mine is “Ask…lots…questions.”

Dan Meyer (14:11):

Nice. ‘Cause I filled in the word! I filled in the word! I was able to kinda infer that. I did that. I got that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:17):

Wait, wait, wait, wait! I could have said many! Wait, I could have said “Ask many questions.”

Dan Meyer (14:22):

Strong, strong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:25):

So yeah. You know, no isolation, like don’t put yourself in a bubble. Ask, not just, not just your students, but the teachers! Ask a lot of questions. You don’t have to have it all figured out.

Dan Meyer (14:34):

Into it. Very much into it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:37):

Thanks. Daniel. Thanks, Pernille.

Dan Meyer (14:40):

Yeah. Daniel and Pernille, Both great questions there about advice, best and worst. Another fire tweet popped up earlier this year from Dr. Khristopher Childs, which was “Name one thing every educator should stop doing.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:57):

Oh, I don’t know. This kind of ties into my best advice about asking questions.

Dan Meyer (15:03):

Stop not asking questions?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:06):

<Laugh> Avoid the isolation. I really love this idea of when we can, popping into each others’ classrooms, co-teaching, building this collaborative nature. Elham Kazemi, in our interview, talked about this idea of, like you said, the teacher time-outs, learning from each other. So I feel like if we could stop isolating ourself…and I don’t mean at lunch—sometimes you need to not be in the teacher lounge at lunch. Like if you need a minute, take the minute! But in general, as a practice, how can we not be isolated and instead be learning with, and from, each other? How can we stop the isolation? That’s what I would hope every educator would stop doing. What about you, Dan?

Dan Meyer (15:54):

I think that educators should…this is gonna require a little bit of elaboration. I think educators should stop taking responsibility for things that are not in their zone of influence. I think that as a society we are asking teachers to do more and more, to become more and more of a central fixture holding together with chewing gum and twine all the various parts of a student’s life. From their health, their fitness, emotional health, that we feed students at school. It becomes very tempting, I think, there’s a lot of pressures to blame outcomes, disparate and unjust outcomes later on in life, on teachers. And teachers should just flatly refuse. And to yeah, understand what the job has been set up to do. What it’s good for. And do that with excellence and intent and a lot of effort. And then not take responsibility for the rest of it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:53):

If I asked five different people about the definition of what a teacher should be doing, I would get five different answers. So I think it’s really interesting that you say that because yeah, many, many hats, which I think, yes, can lead to burnout. Can lead to all sorts of things. We’re asking schools to be all things to all, all people. Interesting. I’m gonna think about that more. I need to hear folks’ response on that, Dan.

Dan Meyer (17:18):

Mm-Hmm. I’m curious too. I mean, yeah, there are definitely things that are in teachers’ responsibility and some that are not. That’s a tough one.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:26):

OK, for help, name an example of each. And what’s something that you think every teacher should not and should be doing. ‘Cause I feel like my brain goes to some things like, you know, I had teachers who were saying, “Well, I don’t wanna have my kids have to have breakfast in my classroom in the morning. That shouldn’t be my responsibility to serve breakfast in the morning.” But I’m like, “But then your kids are eating and they’re gonna be able to learn and be more focused.” Should that be the teacher’s responsibility? I’m not saying it necessarily should, but I’m saying…I don’t know. It gets murky for me.

Dan Meyer (18:06):

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that we should, as a country, have a really generous social welfare net so that everyone has food at home. Where a school is not the place where some students have to go to in order to receive nutrition and nourishment. That seems sad to me. And uncommon in developed nations. I think that teachers should watch out for, should be responsible for, the mathematical development of the students they teach, up to a point, they should be responsible for learning math and creating relationships in their classes. I don’t think that teachers should accept responsibility for larger kinds of outcomes, like the health of a democracy or international competition, who goes to the moon first. That kind of thing has historically been placed at the feet of teachers. And it’s tempting when you’re a teacher, I think, to take on that responsibility because it kind of develops your social importance. And I just say, we should say no to that. And get compensation, not in terms of social importance, but rather like in spendable dollars and monies.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:10):

I’m learning more about you, Dan. And you know, this is what I’ve gotten from that answer: If you’re gonna dream, dream big. Right?

Dan Meyer (19:17):

Is that what you got from that? I don’t know. I think I’m trying to dream realistically.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:23):

No, like if we’re gonna say, “Maybe teachers shouldn’t be responsible for serving breakfast in the morning,” well, because we want every child to have access to nutritious and filling food at home and time to eat it in the morning, right? It’s bigger than just, “I don’t want the teacher to have to do this.” So we’re dreaming big. We’re saying this should be the LEAST that students have access to, right?

Dan Meyer (19:53):

Yeah. Yeah. I’m here now. I’m with you. I like that dream. Where we take care of folks in their lives outside of schools. So schools don’t have to be the one linchpin for every kind of social outcome. Like currently a lot of them run through a school ’cause we don’t do a good job of setting up other ways to meet those needs. And we should.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:16):

And we’re also recording this in, what, two weeks, a week, after a tragedy where students and teachers were killed in the classroom. And I think both of us are taking some deep breaths and recognizing that there’s a lot of debate that is happening about what teacher’s role should be in preventing this in the future. And I don’t know if you’ve done drills in your classroom that are supposed to help mitigate disaster, but you know—collective deep breaths— <laugh> is where we’re at right now.

Dan Meyer (20:52):

Yep. The idea of “we should arm teachers” is another example of no, we should not do that. We should solve the tendency towards violence outside of the classroom so that teachers and students can teach and learn. That sounds awesome to me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:06):

Collective deep breath. Whew. OK. So what else you got for me, Dan?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:33):

Ooh. So I feel like I’ve heard that in many teaching PDs. “I Do, you do, we do.” Actually I feel like I’ve seen like more “I do, we do, you do.” Like graduated release. I do it, then we’ll do it a little bit together, and then now you have permission to do it. And I feel like in directed draw, that’s a hundred percent true. Like I’m gonna show you this and then you draw it. And then you cut here and then you do it. If we’re trying to create this, like I’m teaching this new art technique. But in mathematics, I feel like that’s really not what I want my classroom to look like. I want to support my students and set them up for sense-making, and then I want them to try it out and I don’t want them to solve it the way it first comes to mind for me. I wanna see how they make sense of it and how they solve it. And then I want us to share it with each other so we can grow together. So I think time and place for “I do, you do, we do,” or “I do, we do, you do.” Or shoo-be-doo-be-doo-be. Yeah. You?

Dan Meyer (22:44):

I’ve got nothing. I have nothing to add. I thought that was just an excellent summary of a classroom I would love to be a part in, love to teach. I think it’s a certain tool in the toolbox that I think is overused. But it’s also a tool that can be useful in the case of certain kinds of operations. There are some operations that do benefit from “let me just show you how, like one way you might do this.” I don’t know. I’m like helping my kid whack a nail into a board and there’s a moment where it’s like, “Hey, actually, lemme just show you one way you can do this,” and do it, and then that’s helpful in some moments. But for so much of math, a lot of math does not relate to the operational kinds of fluency. And in those instances, it’s a little bit…it’s not a useful tool, I don’t think, for those kinds of skills and ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (23:34):

I’m thinking of tool talks in my classroom. So in kindergarten, many of the tools that we use in math and just in class in general, are new to the students. And if I tell them, this is exactly how you should use this tool, then I feel like I’m taking a lot of the sense-making away from them. But if I introduce the tool, show them how to use the tool safely, show them this is not a safe way to use the tool, chewing on this is not safe. That’s not how we use this tool. This is how we take care of it, et cetera. But then support different modes of using the tool that are gonna help them use it to solve problems and make sense, I think…but I guess—Dan, have you heard “I do, you do, we do,” or is it “I do, we do, you do”?

Dan Meyer (24:22):

I’m with you. And I think that it got clarified post-tweet. But yeah, it typically is “I do, we do, you do,” the gradual release of responsibility it’s often called. And I, I have heard people do what you described, which is…what is it? It’s “You do, we do, I do”? Like an inversion of that? Like have people do a thing that I can do that’s not too, too abstract for them, and then like “We all do something together, and then I’ll offer a summary of what we learned,” is one way that goes. I like that tool as well.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:53):

I think particularly, at least I’ve seen in elementary classrooms, there’s sometimes this fear of letting students just try it out before I’ve really showed them, “but this is how it has to be.” And what I am most excited about is supporting students and creating a classroom environment where students don’t need my permission or need my direct “this is the only way to do it.” Instead, it’s like, yes, there’s lots of things we model. But there’s also like, “Hey, what do you think? How do you think this should be used?” And the joy of that exploration.

Dan Meyer (25:30):

Yeah. There’s a feeling of efficiency that comes from “I do, we do, you do,” for some kinds of math, but it’s undercut in my experience by what it cultivates in the students, which is “I’ve gotta wait until the teacher does before I can do anything.” So it pays off real diminishing returns over time. And it’s, just for me, an exhausting way to teach. Always being the bottleneck for new learning is a total drag.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:55):

Ooh, what a great way to describe it. You do not wanna be the bottleneck. You want to be…what’s the other thing? The facilitator? What’s the opposite of a bottleneck? The flowing river? The…The…Help me!

Dan Meyer (26:10):

Hit us up in the replies. I dunno. The opposite of a bottleneck. That’s what you wanna…you wanna not be the opposite? No, you want, yeah. We got this here. We’ll figure it out. We’ll get back to you. <Laugh> OK. Well, folks, those were a few of this year’s fire tweets. It’s been fantastic chatting with you—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:29):

Dan.

Dan Meyer (26:29):

—Bethany, About all those—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:32):

Dan. You know, my favorite thing to do is interrupting you, Dan. I have to interrupt you because we can’t end fire tweets, Dan, without including a tweet from you.

Dan Meyer (26:43):

Oh, that’s true. I do have my moments. Yeah, we should. We really should. <Laugh> Do you have one in mind?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:50):

No. Dan. Yes. I loved…you tweeted recently, “How many years have you been teaching?” Which, OK. “What Has been like the most influential? Like, what, OK, blah, blah, blah.” <blathering noises> You tweeted, “How many years have you been teaching? And at this point, what has most influenced how you teach?” And you gave some ideas: A methods course, PD sessions, curriculum, TV and movies, et cetera, et cetera. And I love that you put that out there because this episode is coming out as we’re wrapping up another school year. And it also got me thinking about summer and what teachers sometimes do during the summer, but what we might need to do this summer for self-care. But I’m really curious. I love that tweet. And I’m curious, Dan, what did folks say was the thing that had most influenced their teaching and what’s most influenced your teaching?

Dan Meyer (27:49):

Ooh, yeah. People’s responses to this one were really fantastic. I came into this, I was flying to the Association of Mathematics Teacher Educators conference. And I just found myself wondering, so, the pre-service year, the one year of, like, you’re learning how to teach, is how we did it in California. Like how much of that has still infused my practice? And in what ways? I don’t think I think about that stuff consciously, but I think that did like set me up with a lot of images that I would be unpacking for going on two decades now working in education. I think conversations with people, I think observing classes, I don’t think that like the one-day PDs, the one-day development days throughout the year, four times per year, I don’t think those stuck to me much. I think that this summer, I have learned so much, just an embarrassment of riches, from non-educational sources. From other disciplines. From storytelling, for instance. From how people have constructed movies I like. I am proud of the way…one of the aspects of my character that I’m proud of—it takes a lot to admit this, as I’m sure you understand, Bethany—but to integrate lots of wacky stuff and pick from it and use that to affect my practice and teaching has been really positive. So for this summer, I hope that people read a good beach book and just kinda let your teaching mind rest a little bit. And in doing so, create some openings for new ideas about education from other parts of the world. Kids! Having kids has been helpful. I don’t know! Just everything! It’s such a big job, education. Everything has so helpful. What about you? What’s an influence on your practice that might surprise me or other folks out there in MTL land?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:52):

Well, I don’t know about surprise. I mean, I definitely feel similarly, like methods courses absolutely impacted my teaching. But I feel like opportunities where I was able to observe other teachers and where I was able to have conversations with folks about their practice, that has deeply impacted me. And books I’ve read. I mean, honestly, I’ve learned so much from sharing with other teachers. Like, for example, maybe I’ll bring student work and we’ll talk about it. And we kind of create this conversation together about how we wanna come back to the students based on the work we see. Those type of moments where we’re collaborating and we’re bringing multiple perspectives to the table, that I think, has really often shifted me out of my first initial reaction or what I thought I was going to do in the classroom the next day. So that continues to surprise and delight me. And thinking about this summer, I think there’s a lot of creativity and joy that can come out of the marination process, when you’re just kind of sitting back and healing yourself, whether through sleep or sunshine or time with friends and family or whatever that looks like for you. I think there’s a lot of creativity that can come from that place of fertile, you know, wellness. I never think of that as wasted time. I think of that as getting the soil ready for all that’s gonna come in the fall. And that being said, I also think it could be a fun time to dip your toes into something that you are excited to read, that you might not have a chance to read during the school year that could be teaching-related. So it’s like very low pressure, like, “Oh, I’ve really wanted to read more by this author. I’ve wanted to read this article. I’ve wanted to dip into this topic.” And not with a pressure, but just with a curiosity. And, yeah, I think so often we as teachers love learning, and to give yourself space to learn in whatever that looks like can be a real gift.

Dan Meyer (32:09):

Yes. And if you need book recommendations, hit the MTL back catalog of episodes. Loads of folks that we interviewed have real good books out.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:16):

Yes!

Dan Meyer (32:16):

Think about it. Think about it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:22):

One quick recommendation: Again, gotta plug Antony Smith and Allison Hintz’s book. I read Mathematizing Children’s Literature before we did the interview, but this summer I wanna read all the children’s books that they mention. I just wanna go to the library and read all those children’s books. I wanna read them to my son. I wanna read ’em to myself. So, you know, diving into some good YA, children’s books, just, like, TLC. Dan, thank you for such a rich season and a chance to have so many interesting conversations. It is genuinely a joy to learn with and from you.

Dan Meyer (33:00):

Likewise. And always hope to see you folks on Twitter now and then. Let us know what you’re up to this summer at MTLShow on Twitter or in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. We’ll be there tuning in now and then. It’s been a treat interacting with you folks over this last season. Take care and until the new season, so long.

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What Bethany Lockhart Johnson says about math

“I’ve learned so much from sharing with other teachers… Those type of moments where we’re collaborating and bringing multiple perspectives to the table, I think, has really often shifted me out of my first initial reaction or what I thought I was going to do in the classroom the next day.”

– Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Meet the guests

Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer taught high school math to students who didn’t like high school math. He has advocated for better math instruction on CNN, Good Morning America, Everyday With Rachel Ray, and TED.com. He earned his doctorate from Stanford University in math education and is currently the Dean of Research at Desmos, where he explores the future of math, technology, and learning. Dan has worked with teachers internationally and in all 50 United States and was named one of Tech & Learning’s 30 Leaders of the Future.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Bethany Lockhart Johnson is an elementary school educator and author. Prior to serving as a multiple-subject teacher, she taught theater and dance and now loves incorporating movement and creative play into her classroom. Bethany is committed to helping students find joy in discovering their identities as mathematicians. In addition to her role as a full-time classroom teacher, Bethany is a Student Achievement Partners California Core Advocate and is active in national and local mathematics organizations. Bethany is a member of the Illustrative Mathematics Elementary Curriculum Steering Committee and serves as a consultant, creating materials to support families during distance learning.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S5-01. Investigating math anxiety in the classroom

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Season 5 is here! This season, we’ll be talking all about math anxiety: what it is, what causes it, and what we can do to prevent or ease this anxiety in the math classroom. To launch this very important theme, we sat down with Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, associate professor of educational psychology at Ball State University.
 
As someone who’s been studying math anxiety for more than a decade, he had some interesting research and advice to share on why math anxiety affects so many students (and adults), and tips for how to start reducing it.
 
Listen now and don’t forget to grab your MTL study guide to track your learning and make the most of this episode!
 
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Dan Meyer (00:01):
Hey, folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m one of your hosts, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:05):
And I am your other host. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Season five! Hello!

Dan Meyer (00:11):
Bethany, how are you doing? How have you been spending the long break between our recording sessions?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:16):
As much as I loved sharing content from previous seasons, I am so thrilled that we’re back for season five. I have been, you know, chasing a toddler. I think he’s already tired of me saying, “Ooh, can we count that?” He’s like [sighs] “One two, one two.” Like, he’s done already.

Dan Meyer (00:36):
Too much counting. Yeah, I worry about that so much, that my love of mathematics might be perceived by my kids as smothering. Yeah, I worry about the same. We shared with you folks some bangers of reruns, in my humble opinion. Some great guests. But, we’ve been excited—me and Bethany—to hop back on the mics, on the ones and twos, and explore some new ideas together.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:01):
Well, I loved our season talking about joy in mathematics. And personally I could…like, we could turn this whole podcast into joy in mathematics. However, we’re kind of going a different route. Because if you ask folks why they don’t feel joy in mathematics, a lot of times at the root of that is some really intense math anxiety. So this whole season, we’re going to be delving into math anxiety. Exploring what it is, who has it, why do we think it happens, what do we think we can do about it, and how can we navigate through it, so that we can experience that joy in math? These are questions that we’re gonna explore over the course of the season. Dan Meyer, how do you feel about that?

Dan Meyer (01:49):
It feels big and it feels personal. I mean, as we shared in our math stories back from season…whatever it was, math anxiety was a huge part.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:59):
It was last season, Dan.

Dan Meyer (02:00):
Last…? I mean, who can remember? Big part of your journey. I’ve had some very punctuated but intense moments of anxiety in math class. And socially, we have built math up to be this incredibly powerful thing. You know, restricting movement on economic ladders, preventing people from getting into careers they want. Whether or not they have much to do with math class, math anxiety is a really large part of educational but also social life. And yeah, I’m really excited to explore it with you. We’re bringing on some really excellent guests. Some researchers, yes. But not just researchers! Also people who practice in the field and know firsthand what it looks like to resolve issues of anxiety with students.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:45):
Yeah, you’re right, Dan. My math story contained quite a bit of math anxiety, so I am particularly invested in this season. I mean, I still navigate math anxiety. And, you know, many of us do, and let’s talk about it. And let’s—I love that you reminded me. We’re gonna have a lot of great researchers all throughout the season, and a lot of times folks feel like the research happening, there’s sometimes a gap between researchers and what’s actually happening in the classroom. Not in all cases, but a lot of times. Right? And I remember a lot of conversation about the latest research when I was in grad school, but unless you’re actively studying something, sometimes we don’t know what’s happening. Right? We’re really focused on what’s happening right in front of us in our classroom. So let’s take some of that research; let’s break it down; let’s talk to some of the folks who are thinking about this for the bulk of their day, right?

Dan Meyer (03:41):
Yep. So we got our first guest coming up in a moment here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:45):
So to kick off this season, we’re starting episode one by talking to Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at Ball State University. And he’s been researching math anxiety for more than a decade. He’s worked with so many amazing folks in the field. He’s worked with students, he’s worked with teachers, with educators…I’m just so excited to talk to him. If you look up math anxiety, you see his name as one of the folks who is really thinking about this at so many different angles, and we get to talk to him. So enjoy our conversation with Dr. Gerardo Ramirez.

Dan Meyer (04:29):
We are so excited to have Dr. Gerardo Ramirez on the show with us. Dr. Ramirez is an Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at Ball State University. Thanks so much for joining us.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (04:40):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me to talk about math anxiety.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:43):
So with your interview, Dr. Ramirez, we are actually launching the season. We’re gonna be talking about all different aspects of math anxiety, and it feels pretty perfect that you are first guest of the season, because of the sheer breadth of research and conversations you’ve had about math anxiety. Could you start us off kind of telling us a story of how did you get interested in studying math anxiety? Or why, you know, why did you dive into this topic that, you know, I think a lot of folks might…like, if you’re on a plane, and you say, “Oh, I study math anxiety,” what kind of reaction are you gonna get?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (05:24):
Oh, sure. Yeah. I think most people are actually very interested because they all have their own story about feeling anxious about math, or just being anxious about evaluation situations that involve math. And, yeah, they wanna share those stories. People feel quite comfortable talking about their anxiety about math, for some reason. But for me, I started off, when I was in undergrad, I was studying to take the GRE quiz. I was hoping to go into a psych program. But I wasn’t exactly sure what direction yet. As I took some of the practice tests, there’s some situations in which I was very nervous about taking the practice test. And I just noticed that I did really poorly on some of these exams. And so I became very interested in issues like choking under pressure, which means when you underperform relative to what you expected to perform. And so, as I was researching these issues, I started to come across this whole field of math anxiety. And I saw that while there are some people who choke under pressure during tests, there are other people who just have a strong general fear of mathematics.

Dan Meyer (06:29):
That’s really helpful. I can imagine you’re doing a lot of free psychology sessions, free therapy for people on airplanes when they bring to you their own stories of math. So let’s thank you for your service in that sense. I’m super-curious. So Bethany and I have both taught math. We both have seen firsthand what it looks like when a student is anxious in math class, though maybe we don’t have kind of the clinical language to describe it. And I’m curious, from a clinical sense, how do we define math anxiety?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (06:57):
Sure. So first off, math anxiety is not something that you would find in the DSM, for instance. But we generally define that as a fear or apprehension to situations that involve math. So it doesn’t have to necessarily be educational situations. It could be someone asks you a math-related question during a party, or you have to calculate the tip at a restaurant, for instance. It doesn’t have to be about schooling situations, although that’s obviously where it seems to matter a lot for many people. So it is basically a fear or apprehension to situations that involve math. And I think distinguishing the term “fear” from “anxiety” is really important here. A lot of times people use those terms interchangeably, and the term “fear” is obviously within our definition of math anxiety. But oftentimes what differentiates anxiety from fear is that, anxiety is—think of it like a recipe. Anxiety is fear plus a little bit of unknown. OK? So if, for instance, if you hated snakes, and they threw a snake at you, you’d be in intense fear. Whereas if you hated snakes and they said, “There is a snake in the room, but I’m not gonna tell you where,” that’s gonna cause anxiety. And so the reason why we call it math anxiety is because a lot of times people experience this fear for a possible unknown future that involves math or possible unknown evaluations that people might have about your competence, because of math. And so for a lot of kids, they feel anxious about how they’re gonna do on a test or whether they’re gonna be able to pass a class or whether they’ll be able to understand what you’re saying in your lessons, for instance. And so the anxiety component really gets at fear of something that’s unknown, but related to mathematics situations.

Dan Meyer (08:47):
Math is somewhere in the ceiling right now. Perhaps I might be surprised with a math situation!

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (08:52):
Yeah. yep.

Dan Meyer (08:52):
So I have this tendency to assume that every other subject that we teach has it better and easier than math does. It’s not true. I know this is not true. But I’m kind of curious here. Is math anxiety, like, part of a general just set of anxiety around schooling itself? Like, is there a reading anxiety, a writing anxiety, and does that all just flow from the same kind of fount of anxiety around schooling or situations about learning? And what makes math special in this regard? If it is its own special anxiety, for instance?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (09:27):
There are different…so some people obviously suffer from generalized anxiety. Right? And so they would, you know, feel anxious both for evaluative and non-evaluative situations. But in the research that we’ve done and that other people have done, there are differences between things like reading anxiety, math anxiety; I’ve also studied spatial and creativity anxiety. A lot of times what we’re trying to do in these studies is we measure all of the above, and we try to show that, look, math anxiety predicts math situations above and beyond these other things. So yeah, we definitely distinguish those things. And so what’s special about math is that, well, I think the symbolic nature is a big part of it. The abstract symbolic nature is just not as tangible to students. They can’t touch it. And so it doesn’t allow ’em to use their full cognitive faculties to play with it, as you might see, for instance, in science. Or it doesn’t allow people to relate math to their own interests the way you might see, for instance, in English. So maybe I hate reading novels, but I’m interested in zombies and you give me a book on zombies, well, ok, great, you’ve connected my personal assets to the topic. Whereas with math, either that’s harder to do or instructors don’t do such a good job of setting that connection up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:46):
Also, I think, you know, I’ve heard of students being really anxious, let’s say, during a reading session, when teachers used to do—hopefully they’re still not doing it—the popcorn reading, where you just randomly call on a student to read out a sentence. Right? But you don’t really hear students or adults talking about, “Oh, no, no, no, I don’t read; I don’t mess with reading.” You know? Whereas with math, you do hear, “Oh, I’m not a math person. Oh no, no, no, don’t ask me any math questions.” And that is such a distinction.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (11:18):
Yeah. And I think a lot of that’s because it’s just so common. As an adult, to be nervous about reading is kind of an uncommon thing. So people feel a stigma around admitting that. But math is something that everyone feels like they’re inadequate in. And so there’s a lot of comfort in telling you how they’re just one of the many people who don’t like math. And that, you know, can have a lot of different consequences and outcomes. I think on the one hand, I think for a lot of kids it becomes a normalized message that if you fear math, that’s OK, join the club. Right? But we have to be careful about that, ’cause a lot of math anxiety researchers will oftentimes say, part of what leads to math anxiety is adults normalizing that it’s OK to be scared of math. So I think a lot of times adults, teachers, for instance, math teachers, they’ll tell kids, “You know, if you’re scared, that’s OK.” And so a lot of the math anxiety community says, “No, no, no, you’re not supposed to do that.” But my recent view is different. I view that as a form of validation. Because math is hard. And so telling kids, “Hey, look, it’s actually easy if you just try,” I don’t think that’s true. It’s actually just hard. And I think even if it was easy, to the kid, it feels hard! And I think something that’s not really well-studied right now in our field is the value of validating people’s math negative math experiences. We don’t want to validate that, ’cause we think that we’re gonna reinforce that. But actually, I think the opposite. I think when you validate people’s negative math experiences, it helps ’em to feel that they can handle it. They can start to take control over their own emotions.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:52):
I love that. And I, I actually, I think that’s so powerful, what you’re talking about, that validation. I taught kindergarten, and I vividly remember being in a parent-teacher conference and that parent saying, “Oh, I wasn’t a math person either,” right? Or, you know, their language and their experience with their own math schooling, their anxiety about math was actually impacting their students’ experience of math. Or the conversation that, when I would go to talk about a math assessment, let’s say, you could see the parent actually tensing up. And there was this moment of validation, that I felt like we needed to make space for that in the conversation with the parents, right?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (13:38):
Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:38):
Like, this is a real thing. And we are working on teaching students that math is something that gets to—your experience with math gets to look all sorts of different ways. And it’s OK if we, you know, make a mistake, or if we kind of only get this part, but we’ve really got that part. Or let’s talk about it; let’s write about it. So I really feel like that that validation is something that’s so missing. And instead of the validation, like you said, you see folks being like, “Oh yeah, me neither. I’m not a math person either.” Right?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (14:10):
Yeah. I think…part of the reason why people are comfortable sharing this because they’re looking for validation also. When they say, “Oh, I’m not a math person,” you know, I think they’re hoping that, you’ll say like, “Yeah, me neither,” or “Of course not, ’cause math is terrible.” Right? They’re looking for validation, not to reinforce their perspective, but to feel that it’s OK not to be a math person. And I think that’s one of the techniques that I’m trying to work on in my research right now, is to provide evidence that actually people will work harder when you validate their math experience. You don’t have to tell them a positive story per se. If your current story is “Math is hard and I’m very, very anxious; I’m scared,” then we can just validate that and help you work through that. And it actually will strengthen our relationships. Because if you’re a student and you’re struggling with math and I tell you, “Yeah, it’s hard; it’s OK to struggle with math,” that makes you feel seen. And that’s gonna lead you to want to ask me more for help, because I’m someone who understands you. And that’s a great, you know, remediation opportunity.

Dan Meyer (15:14):
A common thread that I think I’m seeing here in several answers is that math sometimes asks students to disassociate part of themselves. Where success in math oftentimes means working from an a level of abstraction with symbols, like you said, that can feel alien. Like, who am I here? And in the same way, I love that you’re proposing we validate and reassociate people with a very deeply felt part of themselves that is anxious about mathematics.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (15:44):
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s what validation’s supposed to do, right? So a lot of us, when we feel these strong emotions, we wonder, “Is this even a real thing? Are other people feeling this? Is there something wrong with me?” So we feel the emotions, but we can’t actually deal with them, because we wonder if they’re legitimate. And so when someone says, like, “Yeah, this is hard,” it crystallizes that emotion. And once something is made real, you can actually choose how you want to deal with it. Some kids are gonna deal with it by staying anxious. But some people are gonna choose to deal with it by saying, “Well, there’s nothing I can do about it now; I have to take this math test, so I’m just gonna think positive.” And that’s great. If the kid can end up saying that to themselves, that’s much more effective than me telling the kid, “Hey, you just gotta think positive. You’re gonna start the test anyway.” And so we want the kid to make meaning of their experience, and the way we do that is by crystallizing their emotions through validation.

Dan Meyer (16:36):
Yeah. I love that. And so what you’re proposing there, I think, sounds like, a solution, like a post-talk solution after students are feeling anxiety.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (16:43):
Yes.

Dan Meyer (16:43):
To validate and empathize.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (16:45):
Yes.

Dan Meyer (16:45):
And over the course of our season, we hope to explore a lot about solutions to math anxiety that are preventative, that reduce the odds of anxiety arising, through instruction and curriculum, before it arises. And I’m just wondering if you’ve seen anything that would hint at either specific or general words of wisdom you wanna share with the educators, about not just addressing it after the fact, but preventing math anxiety before it arises?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (17:14):
To be honest, at this point, I haven’t seen enough evidence for me to recommend anything concretely as an intervention for math anxiety, or an intervention to prevent its development. All I can really do here is rely a lot on the more broad cognitive-behavioral research on anxiety, which says that one of the ways we prevent people from developing anxiety is by helping them to make more positive appraisals of challenge situations. So a lot of times, when kids are challenged, they don’t know how to interpret that. “What does it mean that I’m struggling with this thing?” And so that’s where I think a lot of teachers can help students’ interpretations of that. ‘Cause if you leave kids to their own devices, they’re gonna think, “I’m struggling because I’m stupid. I’m struggling because I’m not good enough. I’m struggling because my dad is right; I’m gonna be a failure.” You know? They’re going to impose an interpretation to a challenge situation regardless. And so, as teachers, one thing we can do is we can help shape that interpretation and say, “What does it mean to struggle with math? People will say it means you’re stupid. That’s one interpretation. What’s another one? It means that your brain is working really hard to think through something. That’s another interpretation. What’s better? What do you think is more helpful?” And then, helping students to see how interpretations matter to how you ultimately feel about something. And that’s a very metacognitive way of thinking about things. So yeah, I would say that one way to prevent it is to help students to take more positive interpretations of their experience. But another way, and I think a more successful way, I think, is to give students early experiences where they feel efficacious dealing with math. One of the ways you do that, for instance, is by obviously making sure that the students understand the material—but that’s obvious; people are trying to do that. One of my favorite recommendations is to keep reassigning assignments, the same exact assignment, for, say, three weeks, back-to-back. So if in week one you do the homework assignment, you do OK, you don’t do so great, when week two you do it, you give the exact same assignment, and now the student can see like, “Wow, OK, this was much easier.” And then, week three, you give the exact same assignment; now the kid’s feeling really confident. And the reason why that’s great is because it helps kids to see that they’re growing in confidence. A lot of times kids don’t get to see that because we’re constantly throwing new assessments at them. And so they’re never seeing that growth. All they’re seeing is a new challenge, a new challenge, a new challenge. So I think we need to set up situations where they can feel that they’re growing, when we keep the assessment static. That can be a formative assessment, for instance—doesn’t have to be a summative assessment.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:55):
That feels so powerful and it feels like it really connects to that validation piece, right? We are actually helping to create a culture in our math classroom where we might struggle with something, but we keep revisiting it. And it’s not so much to reach mastery, but as Dr. Megan Franke — we talked to her about this partial understanding and about pulling on those threads of things that you do understand, so that you can build your confidence…build, not just confidence, but build your…I guess, kind of get your footing, right? You’re saying, “Well, I do understand this. I see how this works.” And if I’m revisiting an assignment, I feel like that would give me permission to like, “Hey, I don’t have to have this figured out on the first pass. You know?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (20:44):
Yes, yes. Yeah. I mean, I’m gonna give you a silly analogy, but I think it works. You know, a lot of times people will have nightmares, right? And they’ll keep having the same nightmare over and over again, right? And so one reason that we suspect this happens is because they haven’t worked through whatever that nightmare’s supposed to be about. So if, say, I’m scared of driving, I may be having the same dream about driving and crashing over and over. And we keep having these nightmares. And I think math anxiety is kind of like a waking nightmare, where you keep rehashing something because you haven’t had the chance to finally address that dragon. You know? And so if someone was having a lot of fear over driving, then one behavioral approach would be, you know, to work with a therapist to actually get behind the wheel and maybe drive around the same track over and over until you feel comfortable at that, and then the nightmares stop. Well, the same thing is true, I think, about math, math and math anxiety, is that you wanna give people these opportunities to feel confident by going back to that original experience that caused them to feel anxious, and saying, “This one assignment that we did in week three that really freaked you out, let’s try it again now in week five. How was that?” “Yeah, it wasn’t so bad. It was still kind of annoying.” “OK, we’ll we’ll come back to it.” “Now it’s week seven. Now let’s go back to that assignment. How is it now?” “That’s actually…it wasn’t that terrible.” And that gives people the opportunity to reflect on how they’ve grown past that nightmare.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:05):
I have to say, Dan talked about you being like a therapist. I’m like, wait, “How did you know, Dr. Ramirez? I did have this recurring dream! I did! And I had to face it. No, but I had such intense math anxiety in high school and it was debilitating. And the biggest thing for me, I thought I was the only one. I thought there was something wrong with me. I thought, “Why can’t I figure this out?” There wasn’t a conversation about “Here are some tools,” or “Here are some, some, some…”. Like, “This is OK, for you to feel scared about this or overwhelmed!”

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (22:41):
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:42):
You know, I think often when we talk about how widespread math anxiety is, I think a lot of folks automatically jump to high schoolers or college students avoiding math courses. But we see this in really young kids.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (22:56):
Yeah. So people are…people are just constantly making meaning of themselves, regardless of the age range. And that’s true even with young kids; they are trying to figure out who they are. Right? And so one of the things you see oftentimes with young kids is you ask ’em, “What are you good at?” And they say, “Everything!” And that’s their attempt to, you know, make meaning of themselves. But sometimes they’re not good at everything. Sometimes they actually struggle in math. And I think even early on, they have to make meaning of that. They say, “Well, I’m good at everything except math.” And how do you make sense of that? Well, why not math? “Oh, because math is terrible. It’s not for everybody. You know, it’s not something that I like.” And so, yeah, in a lot of the studies that we did early on, we basically went into these first-grade classrooms with the purpose of trying to assess whether we can actually show variability in kids’ math anxiety, even early on. In other other words, do kids even report feeling anxious about math situations? Or do they tell us that they’re great at everything? And what we found was that in fact, a good chunk of kids are, again, perfectly willing to tell you that “No, certain situations involving math make me very anxious.” Counting or addition, or doing a problem on the board. And the way we do that is by—I think there are probably more sophisticated ways that can be done, but this is the best we have at this point—is we go in there and we ask them, we show them a bunch of smiley faces and anxious faces. And we say, “I want you to tell me how you feel about these different situations that involve math.” And so we say, “If you feel kind of nervous, I want you to point to this face. If you feel very nervous, point to this face.” And we basically will read to them situations. We’ll say, “How would you feel if your teacher asked you to open up your new math textbook and you saw all the numbers inside of it?” And they’ll point to the really nervous face. So right now, those are some of the more reliable assessments for math anxiety among young kids. And that work showed us that even young kids are self-reporting math anxiety.

Dan Meyer (24:51):

Obviously this is worth our study, because we would hope people would not feel anxious in general, and especially if we have a mandated…kids are mandated to be in math classes for their entire childhood. So I see the need for this study, these studies. I’m curious: What are the consequences, though? Like what, what correlates with math anxiety? What are other reasons why we should care about math anxiety and work to remediate it?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (25:16):
Oh, sure. So it correlates with their actual math performance. It can correlate when they choose to do homework. Right? So a lot of times, the parents report having to fight with their kids over math homework a lot. And you also oftentimes see a lot of frustration over mathematics specifically. And so it can, you know, not only affect their academic ongoing outcomes, like math tests and math assignments, but it can also affect their relationship with their parents. So if every time you come home, your dad’s screaming at you because you haven’t done your math homework, and when he asks you to solve the problem in front of them, you don’t remember, ’cause you were checked out, ’cause you’re so stressed out, that’s gonna cause a really negative experience. You know, a lot of times people grow up and they still remember their dad screaming at them over the math homework. You know, it’ll affect your relationship with your teacher. So if you’re making me feel incompetent, if you’re stressing me out, you’re not the kind of person I wanna come to for help. So it can predict relational outcomes as well as academic outcomes. And down the line, of course, when it affects students’ opportunities to get into things like AP classes, it affects students standardized test performance and their choice of colleges, as well as scholarship opportunities.

Dan Meyer (26:29):
Once you show that it correlates to performance, then that opens up a whole range of other correlations that are pretty important, it sounds like. Whether that’s career options or, you know, post-secondary education and the like.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (26:40):
Yeah. And a lot of times, when people are choosing a career at college, a lot of times students will make a decision specifically based on what career has less math requirements or less math courses. So I think this finding needs to be verified further. But, there’s some studies showing that, for instance, elementary ed teachers, one factor that feeds into the decision to go into elementary ed is the math requirements are very low in elementary ed. So that can…obviously it’s not what we wanna hear, because these are our first formal math teachers, right? For our kids.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:16):
It feels so powerful, the impact that math anxiety can have, not only while you’re in, let’s say, elementary school, high middle school, high school, but then the impacts beyond that in terms of your career. And I shared this last season, when we talked about our personal math story, but I know when I was navigating the deepest part of my math anxiety, I really felt like, maybe this is a reason I can’t be an elementary school teacher. Because I was so worried that I wouldn’t be able…not that I wouldn’t understand the math for fourth grade, fifth grade, but that there was something about my ability to teach it or understand it or develop a love and passion for it that I wouldn’t be able to do. And I really had to reclaim it in my own way. But, you know, something that I think is so powerful about your research is just the applicability — not only to the field of mathematics, but folks’ everyday lives. And the way that you have talked in the past about math being a gatekeeper…I have a family member who, brilliant American Sign Language interpreter. I mean, amazing. Like a dance with her fingers. I could just watch it all day. And she actually didn’t complete the program because she couldn’t complete the math requirements. And I remember talking to her about like, “Well, have you gone to the free tutoring? Have you gone to, you know, this or that?” But it was a paralyzing fear, you know? So Dr. Ramirez, what do you wish educators understood about math anxiety? Or the research about math anxiety? Or maybe even the general public at large, what do you wish folks understood about math anxiety?

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (28:58):
Oh, I think that a lot of students, they struggle with math. And I think we wanna normalize that struggle as much as possible. We want to create a culture where it’s OK to do math slow; it’s ok to take your time. And I know that’s not possible with a lot of these requirements that a lot of math teachers have to do. But I think if we want to prevent math anxiety, we have to create opportunities to tell better stories. So that’s ultimately what I tell people is, why do people develop math anxiety? Because they had experiences that challenged their competency and they told a negative story. And so making space to reflect in math classrooms about what does it mean to go slow in math, or what does it mean to make mistakes, and then helping kids to tell better stories, I think it’s really the best thing we can do as math educators. ‘Cause you know, your job is not to be a therapist ultimately. You know, there’s only so much math teachers can do. But I think one of the most powerful things we can create is setting up students’ experiences where they feel confident, and they can tell better stories, so they can have better dreams about math.

Dan Meyer (30:06):
Really appreciate this introduction to math anxiety. It’s been a fantastic kickoff to our season. Dr. Ramirez, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez (30:14):
Sure. Thank you.

Dan Meyer (30:16):
Thank you folks so much for listening to that conversation with Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at Ball State University.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:25):
Dan, OK, if not for your frantic signaling, I would’ve probably asked another 20 questions. I need to know what you thought .

Dan Meyer (30:34):
I found it interesting at all points. And especially I think I started to understand a little bit better where the anxiety comes from for some students. I got a little bit here, which is that I think math, more than other disciplines, involves alienation. Check that word. You like that? Alienation? I’m into it. I’m feeling it. It’s like…to get good at math, to be successful in math, you gotta, as a kid, lose your attachment to the world you understand. And I mean, “got to” as in like, “you are asked to” — many times, unfortunately, by curriculum and instruction. Which is to say, you’re turning things you can hold onto into numerals. Right? You’re turning the world and its patterns that you can see and touch into Xs and Ys. And I just don’t know that other disciplines deal with that as much. Maybe I’m wrong and just guilty of, you know, “grass is always greener” syndrome here. But I think that’s an experience that kids have in math. And I thought that Dr. Ramirez got at that when he’s talking about the need to validate a student’s experience of anxiety. Like, in treating anxiety, sometimes we alienate people further by just like saying, “Oh, no, no, no, it’s just like, you need to, you know, drill yourself more, practice more,” and kind of invalidate that. So this feeling of alienation, I think permeates a lot of math instruction. I’m looking forward to learning more about that with our future episodes

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:00):
Alienation. That’s interesting. I definitely felt, I definitely felt isolated and alone many times in my math journey, when I was having my…you know, in high school, when I was feeling like, “Clearly everyone can look at tan, sign, cosign, and that means something to them.” Right? I think it’s really interesting, because I’m thinking about the other disciplines; I’m running through them, and I’m like, even in science, which can seem abstract, so oftentimes there’s these experiments that accompany these concepts, where you’re like, “Look at this concept made real in front of you.” Right? . And so yeah, that’s really interesting.

Dan Meyer (32:39):
You’re always one step away from blowing something up! Or, you know, dissecting something that’s tangible to you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:46):
Yeah. That’s really interesting. I did really love how he brought up the abstract. And how, I think, even validating it…he talked so much about validation. Which to me was like, YES. If somebody just said, “Hey, it’s not only possible to have math anxiety, but it also doesn’t mean that you don’t belong here.” If somebody had said that, it would’ve literally changed the trajectory, you know? And I wonder what those conversations could look like in our classrooms, where teachers celebrate that. Like, WHOA, this is a new way to think of this. This is a new way. Asking how many, or what do you notice for this image, through a mathematical lens, or looking…we talked to Alison Hintz and Antony Smith, like mathematizing books, like looking through these lenses — it’s an invitation to step into this other world, right? But there’s not only one way to do it. And I think oftentimes it’s like that anxiety of “Am I gonna say the right thing?” or “Am I gonna notice the right thing?” Right? How do we create that space more, where there’s so many possibilities and we want kiddos to notice what they notice, right?

Dan Meyer (33:54):
You gotta become a certain kind of person to be successful in math class. I feel like is part of the implied deal. Where you’ve gotta—like how you said—say a certain thing or think about a certain thing a certain kind of way. You’re trying to become someone who is not necessarily you. Which I think is fundamentally an experience of alienation, separating you from important parts of yourself.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:19):
I will never, ever dive into mathematics on the scale and level that you have with your PhD. You understand math in a way that my brain just…I won’t get there, right? And yet I’m allowed to call myself a mathematician, with all of my deep dives in elementary math and my love of early numeracy and thinking about how we start thinking about counting and numbers. Right? It’s like, if we make more space for what mathematicians can look like, and what is your personal relationship with math…I mean, that to me feels really exciting. ‘Cause I think we both have something to offer each other.

Dan Meyer (35:03):
I think I have never found early math more interesting than when I talk to early math educators. And learn just like all the different ways that students come to understand a concept that I had thought was simple. Like addition of whole numbers. Whoa! There’s a lot of ways kids do that work, and their brains think those thoughts. And, yeah. That’s a good word there you’re offering us and our listeners.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I’m really excited about this season. I think there’s — again, there’s no way we’re gonna cover all facets of math anxiety. But I think having the chance to explore it over the course of a season is going to be really fascinating. And really, I hope, destigmatize it and open up the conversation for our listeners. And, you know, if you listeners…we wanna know what you thought of this episode. Do you have any particular questions? Do you have questions related to math anxiety? Questions related to this episode? We are in development for this season, so we’re gonna do our best to get those questions answered. You can keep in touch with us in our Facebook discussion group, Math Teacher Lounge Community, and on Twitter at MTLshow.

Dan Meyer (36:14):
Next time, we’re gonna go deeper into the causes and consequences of math anxiety.

Dr. Erin Maloney (36:20):
It’s not just the case that people who are bad at math are anxious about it. It’s actually that the anxiety itself can cause you to do worse in math. And that for me is really exciting, ’cause it means that if we can change your mindset, then we can really set you on a path with several more options available to you.

Dan Meyer (36:41):
Til next time folks,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:41):
Bye.

Stay connected!

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What Dr. Gerardo Ramirez says about math

“A lot of students struggle with math, and we want to normalize that struggle as much as possible. We have to find opportunities to tell better stories and reflect on our experiences.”

– Dr. Gerardo Ramirez

Associate Professor of Educational Psychology, Ball State University

Meet the guest

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez obtained his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago, where he studied the  role of teachers and parents in shaping the math attitudes of their students, as well as reappraisal techniques to help students cope with anxiety during testing situations.

Dr. Ramirez is currently an associate professor at Ball State, where he examines the role of frustration, empathy, and cultural capital in shaping students’ success and persistence.

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S4 – 03: LIVE from NCTM with Bethany and Dan

Hosts Bethany and Dan, both smiling, in a promotional image for the "Math Teacher Lounge" podcast, Season 4 Episode 3, titled "Live from NCTM!" with an

In this episode, co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer are LIVE with more than one hundred Math Teacher Lounge listeners at the recent National Council of Teachers of Mathematics conference. Listen in as they answer the pressing question: Who is the best teacher in film or television?

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Presenter (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, from Math Teacher Lounge, we have Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer! <cheering>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:08):
Doesn’t go well that the door was locked. Like, I could not get in! <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (00:12):
Yeah. Gotcha. All right. We’re gonna sit a little bit. Let’s see how that works—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:16):
Hi!

Dan Meyer (00:16):
Yeah. I think we’ll stand up? Or whaddaya think, sit…?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:19):
Should we stand? Hi.

Dan Meyer (00:22):
Hello. Great to see you folks. Yeah, I can hear you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:25):
Can you hear me? That’s—I know YOU can me. Can you hear me OK? OK! We’re here. Hello. Thank you for like, lining up and coming out and being here. Thank you!

Dan Meyer (00:35):
Means so much to me that you could be here for me, on my show, with Bethany Lockhart Johnson, my co-host. <Audience laughs>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:40):
The hour has just started.

Dan Meyer (00:42):
We’re just getting going. Yeah. If you folks have heard the podcast, you don’t know how much gets cut out. And it’s like, mostly me just having, you know, anxious nerves and saying something silly and then we cut it out and we can’t do that here today. So it should be real fun for all of us, I think. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:55):
It’s not true. It’s mostly dancing. “Bethany, can you stop talking? Bethany?” Cause it’s mostly—

Dan Meyer (00:59):
“It’s my turn. It’s my turn! Bethany <laugh>! I haven’t been heard for a while.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:02):
Dan. We’re at an in-person conference.

Dan Meyer (01:05):
In-person BIG conference, I would say. I’d say a big conference. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:08):
And have you been to the Amplify booth?

Dan Meyer (01:11):
I have! Have these people? There’s a claw machine with free socks.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:16):
Yeah. You’re saving me socks, right? That’s what you’re saying. <Laugh> I mean, it’s exciting. How has your conference been so far?

Dan Meyer (01:21):
So far it’s been a blast. I feel fed. I feel like the community’s been awesome. How are you feeling about it?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:29):
OK. Let’s talk about me for just a second.

Dan Meyer (01:31):
Yeah. Talk about you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:31):
Last night, Dan, was the very first night that I was away from my toddler. <Audience: Aw!>

Dan Meyer (01:38):
Big commitment being here. Thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:40):
I got super-emotional walking back to the hotel after dinner, and then I got in my room, <laugh> I put on pajamas, and I turned on music. I slept so good!

Dan Meyer (01:50):
Yeah. <Audience laughs> Give it up for no kids! <Audience laughs> Hey!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:55):
I love him so much. But I slept all the way through the night. Oh, by the way, I ordered room service in the morning.

Dan Meyer (02:01):
On Amplify.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:01):
That bill’s coming. But it’s been a great conference and I’m so delighted to be here in person and to get to share energy…and hopefully that’s all we’re sharing today. Y’all got your tests, right? Yep. Sharing energy and community today. Because we know it’s been hard. Hardness. Hard.

Dan Meyer (02:25):
Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:26):
Years. Hard. And to be in person, I know conferences reinvigorate me and I go back into my educational spaces feeling revitalized with new connections and new ideas to try. So yeah, I’ve been excited to be here. And thank you all for being here.

Dan Meyer (02:40):
Yep. I don’t care if I get six different strains of Covid here. I’m just thrilled to be here. <Audience laughs> I don’t know if you’ve had the same feeling, though, Bethany, you folks…I’m a little bit confused to some degree about what we’re doing. I just wanna be really transparent. This is my sarcastic voice but I’m being sincere here. It kind of feels like we’re in a little bit of a time capsule. Like we all got in a time capsule in 2019 and, you know, you open it back up and it’s like, OK, so we’re still, you know, talking about X, Y, or Z protocol for establishing classroom routines or whatever. And I’m like, OK! Like, I loved that in 2019! But I do admit, I’m still trying to figure out a little bit like, what are we doing now? What’s our relationship to the world out there? Things are very different. I have had some great sessions that I’ve enjoyed. I’m also like, still waiting for a session to draw a little blood. Do you know what I mean? Like there’s been sessions…no? OK. You’ve been in these sessions where it’s like, “Oh, ow.” Like, and you look down and there’s and there’s blood there. It’s like, I thought I knew what we were up to. Like, I thought I knew what teaching was and how we relate to the world. I dunno, like in any Danny Martin session in 2019, “Take a Knee” was one, where I was like, “Oh, OK. Like, I’m not as hot as I think I am here. Like, I’m part of a system.” That kind of thing for me draws blood. And I haven’t been in one of those yet. Been some great sessions. I’m a little hopeful that today we draw a little blood and think about what we’re doing here, is my hope here, if that’s OK. So Bethany’s gonna moderate that impulse and she’ll be the fun one and I’ll be the blood-drawing one.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:05):
No, I don’t…that metaphor doesn’t speak to me personally. But what I will say is, I get what you’re saying about really wanting to be in that room where there’s like this synergy happening. No promises about that today other than—

Dan Meyer (04:18):
I promise. <Audience laughs> Go on.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:20):
Other than I get what you’re saying. I’ll find my own metaphor that does not involve bloodshed, but.

Dan Meyer (04:25):
Sure. There’s a lot of ways we we could go about this today. And the one that I’m excited about is, you know, we could like, you know, analyze some results from students, and talk about what went into that. Look at classroom video. Lots of possibilities. But here’s what we’re up to today. Hope you’re into it. Which is, we are here in the heart of the entertainment industry. You know, Tinseltown! Um, the Big Apple! Uh…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:47):
No!

Dan Meyer (04:47):
Come on. What do you got here? Um…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:51):
It was daytime at night. Like the lights were so bright.

Dan Meyer (04:54):
The City of Lights.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:55):
There was a movie premiere outside my hotel room, which I was not invited to, unfortunately. But so what are we doing today?

Dan Meyer (05:01):
So here’s what we’re doing. We are gonna settle, once and for all, a question you have not asked yourself yet, perhaps, but will want to know the answer to in a moment. Which is: Who is the best teacher in all of film or television? OK? We’re gonna do that. It’ll be fun. But I hope that in debating this a little bit with a special guest we’ll bring up in a moment, that we will start to uncover some truths about what makes good teaching. How that’s different from teaching as we see it in movies and tv. Why middle-class America wants teachers to look a certain way in movies and tv. What all that means. And it’ll be awesome. I think. I’m hopeful it’ll be awesome. So what we did here is we’ve invited eight people. Eight folks you people may have known. You’ve been in their sessions today, in this conference, perhaps. And asked them: Who’s your fave? Like, we might have our favorites, but we wanted to democratize it a bit. So asked some cool people who you folks like, who are very smart and thoughtful about teaching: Who’s your favorite teacher?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:58):
A few of whom are in this room. Thank you for your submission.

Dan Meyer (06:00):
Thank so much. Yeah. We’ll see what happens here. <laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:03):
As they shrink down.

Dan Meyer (06:03):
Yeah. Might draw some blood that I don’t mean to right now. We’ll see. OK.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:06):
That metaphor, what IS that??

Dan Meyer (06:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I’m still going with it. <laugh> And you folks will be a huge part of this. THE part of this, really. So what will happen is I’ll share with you our first nominees. A few of us will make a case for our favorites, or least favorites, as the case may be sometimes. And then by applause, by acclamation, you folks will decide who wins and advances to the next round. Start with eight, move to four. You folks know math.You know where this goes. OK.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:34):
No, keep going. Keep going.

Dan Meyer (06:36):
Two, then one.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:36):
Yeah. Got it.

Dan Meyer (06:37):
Then a half of it. No?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:38):
He had to school me on the making of brackets. But we got it. Yeah.

Dan Meyer (06:41):
How brackets work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:41):
But we got it. March Madness, what?

Dan Meyer (06:44):
Yeah, in order to do this right, we had to bring up—all the folks that you’ll see are also former Math Teacher Lounge guests, or like, just fan favorites. And we’re also bringing up a former Math Teacher Lounge guest to help us decide this and debate this in a respectful manner.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:59):
New dad.

Dan Meyer (07:00):
New dad.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:01):
You see where my brain’s still at? I miss him. <Laughs>

Dan Meyer (07:03):
Friend from San Diego. Really cool teacher.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:06):
Incredible teacher.

Dan Meyer (07:06):
Works at Desmos and Amplify. And I just want you to welcome up your friend and mine. Chris Nho!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:11):
Chris Nho!

Dan Meyer (07:13):
Come up, Chris. Let’s go, buddy. We didn’t talk about it, but did you want to do the cornball stuff too?

Chris Nho (07:22):
Wow. Would I love to do—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:23):
And then the door could be locked! And then you have to wait and like, just—

Chris Nho (07:27):
Yeah, I’ll skip that part.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:28):
Hi. Welcome. You’re here. We’re here in person.

Chris Nho (07:30):
Very glad to be here. Thank you all for having me.

Dan Meyer (07:33):
Tell me who you are.

Chris Nho (07:34):
My name is Chris Nho. I live in San Diego. I’m a new dad. A three month old, just had. Yeah, she’s actually here at the conference with us in the hotel room. And I promise you she is not by herself. She is with…come on. I was like, “Hey, just gimme one hour. I’ll be right back. I have to do very important work.” But yeah, I think I got invited here because I have opinions and I’m willing to draw…some…blood.

Dan Meyer (08:02):
There we go! Two outta three! We’re good on the metaphor now.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:06):
We’re so glad you’re here. If you haven’t listened to the episode where Chris and Molly and some other public math folks share their ideas and ideas of how to take math out into the world, please listen, because we had a blast.

Dan Meyer (08:19):
Inspiring work. Really inspiring work. Very cool. Cool. OK. Right on. OK.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:23):
Let’s do this!

Dan Meyer (08:24):
Let’s get started here. Yeah! <Audience cheers> Yeah. And we might ask you who your favorite teacher is, who’s missing from our list of eight? We might have forgotten some people. Anyway. All right. So here’s our first two. Our first two are nominated by way of, let’s see, um, Mandy Jansen is a professor at the University of Delaware. Got some awesome talks here this week, a Shadow Con talk last night. She’ll be nominating one. And also, um, Lani Horn is a professor at Vanderbilt, also extremely cool, prolific author and speaker, just all-around great human and friend of teachers everywhere. And she’ll nominate another in this bracket, which is the Northeastern Comedy bracket, Northeastern comedy bracket.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:06):
It just worked out that way.

Dan Meyer (09:07):
Yeah. Here it is. Here is Tina Fey in Mean Girls.

Tina Fey in Mean Girls (09:12):
“OK. Everybody close your eyes. All right. I want you to raise your hand if you have ever had a girl say something bad about you behind your back. Open your eyes. Now close your eyes again. And this time I want you to raise your hand if you have ever said anything about a friend behind her back. Open up. It’s been some girl-on-girl crime here.”

Lani Horn (09:52):
I am nominating Sharon Norbury from Mean Girls as the best movie math teacher. She is an awesome teacher who is always there for her kids. She always sees the best in them. She shows that she can forgive even some pretty bad behavior, if she sees that kids are trying. She’s a strong feminist who makes sure that smart girls don’t dumb themselves down just to impress boys.

Tina Fey in Mean Girls (10:22):
“Katie, I know that having a boyfriend may seem like the most important thing in the world right now, but you don’t have to dumb yourself down to get guys to like you.”

Lani Horn (10:30):
She’s also super hard-working. She works three jobs. She’s always there for the kids. She plays piano in the talent show and takes them to Mathlete competitions. And she’s also socially aware. And when things go really badly among the girls, she does some pretty creative things to try to get them to be kinder to each other.

Dan Meyer (10:54):
OK. That’s one.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:55):
Helen Case.

Dan Meyer (10:57):
All right. Settle down. Settle down. Settle down. All right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:59):
Piano too!

Dan Meyer (11:00):
Bethany’s already trying to bias people here. All right. Chill out. Hold on. So next one is Mandy Jansen with Jack Black from School of Rock. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

Jack Black in School of Rock (11:09):
“What was your name?”

Kid in School of Rock (11:10):
“Katie.”

Jack Black in School of Rock (11:11):
“Katie. What was that thing you were playing today? The big thing.”

Kid in School of Rock (11:14):
“Cello.”

Jack Black in School of Rock (11:15):
“OK. This is a bass guitar and it’s the exact same thing, but instead of playing like this, you tip it on the side. Chellooooo! You’ve got a bass! <Laugh> Try it on.”

Mandy Jansen (11:25):
And I’m nominating for best teacher in a film Jack Black as Dewey Finn playing Mr. Ned Schneebly in the film School of Rock. So why this portrayal? First of all, playing a longterm sub. Those are so hard to find right now. <Audience laughs> Really hard. And then he teaches using class projects. That’s brilliant. Integrated learning. And then love this. He gives students roles and tasks that are differentiated and align to the specific strengths that each student has.

Kid 2 in School of Rock (12:05):
“I can also play clarinet, you know!”

Jack Black in School of Rock (12:06):
“I’ll find something for you when we get back from lunch. I’ll assign the rest of you killer positions.”

Mandy Jansen (12:13):
And the film culminates in a performance of a collaborative song that they all wrote and performed together. And the students experience that collaboration and teamwork and creating something beautiful is much more important than winning first place. And finally, one of the songs that the character sings in the film is “Math is a Wonderful Thing.” Can’t beat that.

Dan Meyer (12:40):
All right. That’s tough. That’s tough. So here’s the deal. What we have right now is just a quick minute—so Bethany, you ranked, we all ranked our own faves here outta the list of eight. And Bethany put Jack Black in School of Rock a bit higher than Tina Fey in Mean Girls.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:54):
Missed the piano part though.

Dan Meyer (12:55):
And Chris, vice versa here. So Bethany, would you start us off and just make a quick case here for Jack Black versus Tina Fey?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:01):
OK. So here’s what I’m thinking. There’s been rumor that maybe they’re putting less than credentialed people into classrooms to fill teaching gaps. I mean, just rumor. And so here’s this guy who is a rocker. He is not a substitute. He has no teaching training. And yet he goes in there and it turns out that he has the ability to see students’ potential and to recognize their unique abilities. And like Mandy said, he really tapped into, like, he saw them and said, “No, more is possible for you than what you think is possible.” And there’s like real sub anxiety. When you walk in, you can either be like, happy there’s a sub, but I was usually really nervous. Right? And he goes in and he makes that classroom into a home.

Dan Meyer (13:53):
Wow.

Chris Nho (13:54):
Wow.

Dan Meyer (13:56):
Chris, speak on it. Tina Fey needs you. Chris.

Chris Nho (13:59):
Tina Fey. Here we go. I’m gonna argue here that—when was that movie made?

Dan Meyer (14:03):
T is for terrific. I is for Interesting.

Chris Nho (14:06):
Decades ago. And I’m gonna argue that Tina Fey was very progressive for her time. OK, let’s talk about social emotional learning. Hello. <Audience laughs> Love that. Right? Stand up if, I mean, she’s getting people to talk about their emotions. And there’s a curriculum. But let’s just pause, because that’s not what’s really happening in the classroom right now. So social emotional learning, I think she’s, she’s got that a lot. And then number two, you know, if you remember the plot of Mean Girls a little bit, she gets her name written in that Burn Book. Like she sees what they say about her. Restorative justice. Let’s go. <Audience laughs>.

Dan Meyer (14:38):
Whom amongst us. Yes.

Chris Nho (14:40):
You write Mr. Nho in the Burn Book?? Well, your grade book is gonna look like a Burn Book! OK? <Audience laughs> Tina Fey, Tina Fey, she was like, “No, you know, know what? I’m actually gonna spend more time with you. You’re gonna become a mathlete.” And Lindsay Lohan discovers—she drops the most iconic line in all of math education. “The limit does not exist.” Thank you, Tina Fey, for that. For that gift.

Dan Meyer (15:04):
Bless. Bless you. Tina Fey. Wow.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:05):
Oh, man. Wow.

Dan Meyer (15:09):
Let’s see what the people say here. I do wanna just add one quick thing about—it’s interesting to me how often in these movies—just kind of go in a little bit, zoom out just a minute—how often it’s a teacher who has no training as a teacher. <Bethany laughs> I am kind of curious why it is. Like, those are the movies that get hot, that get made. Again, these are all kind of a mirror of the taste of the moviegoing public. You know what I’m saying? Like, these, these are not movies—I wanna believe they are made for me and for us as teachers. But they are not. There’s not enough of us to justify, you know, Jack Black’s, you know, M&M budget or whatever he’s got going on in his trailer or whatever. That needs to be for everybody in middle-class America. So what is it about middle-class America that wants to see teaching as something that anybody can do? Just like, you know, just, just run up there in your van and make it happen.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:54):
Magic magically manifests.

Dan Meyer (15:56):
Yeah. Manifest. Yeah. That’s just interesting to me. I just toss that out there as some red meat. Let’s see what the people say here. All right, OK, so you’re ready. Let’s get the bracket going here. The question is Tina Fey versus Jack Black. You had a moment here. Just whisper to someone real fast who you’re going for here real quick. What are you thinking here? <Crowd murmuring> All right. Crowd’s buzzing. Crowd’s buzzing. Would you folks…? All right. Bring it back. Go ahead and make some noise for Tina Fey. <Crowd cheers> OK. OK. Make some noise for Jack Black! <Crowd cheers> Judges say Tina Fey. Tina Fey moves on. All right. All right.

Chris Nho (16:44):
Stunned. I’m stunned. I’m speechless.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:46):
Tina Fey moves on. Wow.

Dan Meyer (16:48):
This has exceeded my expectations in terms of having some fun, but also getting deep, getting deep and real about teaching. I’m into this right here. Yeah. What’s up?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:54):
That’s the goal. That’s the goal. OK. You wanted blood? Oooh, this next matchup might just be where that blood comes forth! OK. Stretch. Warm up. Dan Meyer, who’s up next?

Dan Meyer (17:11):
We’ve got the animated/animatronic round here in the Southeast. And repping the two contestants here, who do we have? We have Allison Hintz, professor, author outta Washington, as one of the two nominators. And the other nominator is one of my heroes, though we’ll find out very wrong about this nomination, Jenna Laib, who’s in the crowd, and I’m trying not to make eye contact here. <Laugh> And here are the two nominations. A couple minutes each. And then we’ll chat about it. And one of us will probably die. But we’ll see how it goes.

Allison Hintz (17:50):
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, MTL, we began learning from the Jedi Master of Teaching. With the Socratic and experiential approach. With unparalleled mindfulness, compassion, and humility. The best teacher in TV and film, Yoda is. <Audience laughs> Yoda lives the values we share as teachers and learners. He humbly comes alongside us as we construct new knowledge.

Yoda (18:29):
“You must unlearn what you have learned.”

Allison Hintz (18:32):
Yoda allows us to struggle and sees mistakes as critical to learning.

Yoda (18:39):
“The greatest teacher, failure is.”

Allison Hintz (18:43):
Yoda values curiosity and reminds us of the beauty and joy of teachers learning from children.

Yoda (18:52):
“Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.”

Allison Hintz (18:59):
MTL! Join the Resistance! Let the force flow through you in declaring, the best teacher in TV and film, Yoda is.

Dan Meyer (19:18):
Give it up for Allison Hintz! All right! <Audience applauds>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:20):
Alison! And to have that on hand too, which Is kind of perfect.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:26):
Just to be clear, the helmet is not a part of a Zoom background.

Dan Meyer (19:29):
You may evaluate the quality of the nomination based on the costumes of the nominator. That is acceptable. That’s acceptable.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:35):
That is a REAL HELMET.

Dan Meyer (19:35):
All right. The next nominator here, this one is from Jenna Laib, math coach, all-around stellar human. Here we go. This is Ms. Frizzle.

Ms. Frizzle (19:42):
“Single file, class. Our rotten field trip has only just begun.”

Jenna Laib (19:47):
And I think that the best teacher from TV or movies is Ms .Valerie Frizzle from The Magic School Bus. First and foremost, Ms. Frizzle believes in her students. She encourages them to take an active role in their learning, and also to advocate for change in their local community. For example, there’s an episode where there is a logger who’s gonna cut down a rotting log that would benefit the local ecosystem. And the students figure out a way to convince him to leave the log so that all of the animals and the plant life can benefit. She orchestrates really challenging situations for these students, and she allows them the space to ask questions and engage in problem-solving and puzzle their way out of these really, really difficult scenarios. Ms. Frizzle has unmatched pedagogy. She’s bold, she’s innovative, and she’s a major proponent of experiential learning. So these students are heading straight into a storm to learn about weather systems. <Audience laughs> These students are heading into the human body to learn about digestion and disease. They literally get baked into a cake to learn about some chemistry and reactions.

Children in The Magic School Bus (20:54):
“What’s happening?” <Audience laughs> “Why is it suddenly getting so hot?” “Maybe it’s because the floor is on fire!” <Audience laughs>

Jenna Laib (21:02):
This pedagogy is all led by her outstanding catchphrase, which is:

Ms. Frizzle (21:06):
“Take chances; make mistakes; get messy!”

Jenna Laib (21:14):
From her pedagogy to the classroom community that she creates, Ms. Frizzle is an inspiration, and that is why I think that she is the best teacher from TV or film. <Audience applauds>

Dan Meyer (21:25):
Right on! Give it up for Jenna. Give it up for Jenna. All right. I’m gonna take first pass at this. Chris knows my argument already, so I’m gonna take this here. I see some of you are feeling how I’m feeling on this one. OK, so I don’t have tons to say in favor of Yoda. I think it was all true what Allison said. I think the costume was banging. It was awesome. So there’s all that, but I have more to say against Ms. Frizzle than for Yoda.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:48):
No, no, no. Wait a second!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:49):
Let’s let it happen. Bethany, I’ve come prepared.

Dan Meyer (21:54):
I may have made a misstep here, I realize.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:56):
I’ve come prepared.

Dan Meyer (21:56):
So I think Jenna is all correct. I think those clips spoke for themselves. I think that what they add up to, to me, is not “great teacher,” but more “someone who should be locked up.” <Audience laughs> Or at the very minimum, “someone who should be kept away from children.” <Audience laughs> Do not let that woman around children. I mean, check it out. Look, I don’t wanna throw down credentials. I’ve been to grad school, though. I know how this works. When your brain is stressed, you get these—all the cortisol happens. Your working memory shrinks up. You cannot learn when you’re stressed. And those kids, like whatever lesson Ms. Frizzle is teaching by sending them into an oven, I repeat, an oven <audience laughs>, like, they’re not gonna learn anything ’cause their brains are freaking out with stress and fear. OK?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:41):
“What’s happening??”

Dan Meyer (22:43):
“What’s happening? Am I on fire? Well…I’m learning lots, though! Sure is magical!” <Audience laughs> It’s like, “No. Get that woman out of a classroom.” That’s my opening and closing argument. Right? There’s all it is.

Chris Nho (23:01):
All right. All right. All right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (23:02):
Chris knows.

Chris Nho (23:03):
I’ve got, I’ve got lots to say. First off, I think Dan was in charge of the editing of those video clips. So let’s let that be—you know, let the record stand. <Audience laughs>

Dan Meyer (23:11):
Where’s the lie though? Where’s the lie?

Chris Nho (23:14):
And, you know, second, I think, um—this is the guy up here saying, “I wanna see blood.” You know? And then he has a teacher who literally takes the students into a blood cell and, and you get a little scared! You get a little worried for the students, you know? So I just don’t get it, Dan. This or that. OK? I think Ms. Frizzle—so I actually went to a project-based learning school. I taught at a project-based learning school. And the best thing about it is like, your learning, it doesn’t just stay in this box of math lesson or writing lesson, history lesson. And I think with Ms. Frizzle, like you can’t help but learn things because you are getting baked in a cake. <Audience laughs> Yeah, it is a little scary. And I imagine there’s cortisol and things happening, but guess what? Probably the next episode, they go into their own brains and explore what’s happening. That kind of thing. You know?

Dan Meyer (24:07):
The kids that survived, just be clear. <Audience laughs>

Chris Nho (24:10):
Yeah. OK. Would I want Nora, my three-month-old, to be babysat by Ms. Frizzle? Maybe not. <Audience laughs> But what I have to say about Yoda is Yoda maybe wins the best tutor award. Give it up for Yoda’s Best Tutor Award.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:24):
Oh, yeah…

Chris Nho (24:25):
That ratio’s looking really nice. I could teach the heck outta Luke Skywalker. OK? But 20 little Luke Skywalkers running around. I’m not sure. OK?

Dan Meyer (24:34):
Luke did survive the training, though. <Audience laughs> So that’s awfully nice to say about it. All right, Great words from Chris here. I’m still not convinced. We’ll see how you’re convinced here. Would you whisper to someone where you’re leaning here? Frizzle or Yoda? <Audience buzzing>

Chris Nho (24:47):
I tried. I tried.

Dan Meyer (24:53):
All right. That’s enough of that. Let’s hear it folks. Give it up for Yoda. <Audience cheers> Give it up. Give it up. You. Give. It. Up.

Chris Nho (25:05):
Hey, next. Next.

Dan Meyer (25:06):
All right. All right, all right. <Mutters> Give it up for Ms. Frizzle. <Audience cheers louder> I dunno, it’s pretty close. Call a tie. Maybe Yoda? Yoda by nose? <Audience laughs> All right. All right. Let’s…let me see who’s it. Let’s get the people advancing here. I’ll keep on moving here.

Chris Nho (25:26):
As you’re doing that. Um, Dan ranked Ms. Frizzle last in his personal ranking. And I ranked Ms. Frizzle very high, so we knew this one would be spicy,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:36):
<laugh> Spicy it was. Are you having a good time so far? <Audience cheers> So while we love seeing these images and we love seeing these video clips, at the core, what are these things about how teachers are portrayed? And how accurate is that to our real lives? I mean, besides the cake part, right? That my chemistry class did often feel like I was on fire. I was so stressed in it. Um, we’re ready?

Dan Meyer (26:05):
Yep. Great. We’re ready, we’re up here. So the next two nominees are coming to you folks from Tracy Zager, who is the editor of my book, forthcoming in 2027 at the earliest and 2032 at the latest. And also your very own Zak Champagne from Florida, here in the room. Hey, Zak. Zak, let’s see who the nominations are. I’m gonna skip past that, didn’t work out so well for me. Here it is. This is Marshall Kane from the TV show Community.

Michael K. Williams in Community (26:32):
“You two complete your case to the class and let them decide your grades.”

Joel McHale in Community (26:37):
“Professor, thank you.”

Michael K. Williams in Community (26:40):
“It’s not a favor, Mr. Winger. Man’s gotta have a code.”

Joel McHale in Community (26:44):
“Awesome.”

Zak Champagne (26:46):
This is a pitch for an underdog. This teacher didn’t stand on desks or encourage his students to follow their musical passions. In fact, this teacher was seen only in a few episodes of my favorite TV show of all time, Community, Community has set at Greendale Community College in Colorado. And in season three, we get to meet Dr. Marshall Kane, a biology professor whose story is an inspiration to anyone who just takes the time to look and listen. Dr. Marshall Kane slowly earned his PhD while in prison, serving a sentence of 25 to life. In his classroom, he inspires students to love biology, question why LEGO has become so complicated, and randomly pairs his students for group projects to ensure no one feels left out. His greatest performance comes when a group of students believe their yam project was intentionally sabotaged. Dr. Kane took this as an opportunity for some trans-disciplinary real-world learning. So yes, at community college, he felt that a middle-school mock trial was the best way to determine who killed the yam. So let’s all pick the underdog and vote for Dr. Marshall Kane. After all, man’s gotta have a code. <Audience goes “oh!” and applauds>

Dan Meyer (27:53):
Thank you, Zak.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:54):
I have a code.

Dan Meyer (27:56):
Next up is Tracy Zager, nominating an unusual nomination, not a single person, but an ensemble performance. A bunch of people from a movie called Searching for Bobby Fisher. Here we go.

Rapid-fire movie dialogue (28:11):
“What’s that?” “Schleimann attack.” “Schleimann attack? Where’d you learn that from, a book?” “No, my teacher taught me.” “Aw, your teacher. Well, forget it. Play like you used to, from the gut. Get your pawns rolling on the queen’s side.”

Tracy Zager (28:26):
Hey, Math Teacher Lounge. This is Tracy Zager. I’m excited to share my nominee for the best movie teacher. But I have to admit that when I first got the email, I thought, oh, who am I gonna nominate? Because most movies about teachers are highly problematic. They usually have like a saviorism thing, usually white saviors. And I just felt like I couldn’t suggest any of those. So rather than nominate a movie about a single teacher, I wanted to nominate a movie that taught me something about teaching. And that movie is a deep cut. It’s Searching for Bobby Fischer. It’s a movie about a chess prodigy. And what I love about it is that all of the different adults in the movie are in teacher roles in some way. And the student, Josh, the chess player, is a fully realized character, not an empty pail, who pulls from the strengths of each one of those adults while also dealing with their flaws and humanity. And there’s just beautiful synergy in the way he gets the best out of everybody, but also has to overcome some of the barriers that they put in front of him. So I feel like it’s a much more authentic and humbling, but also inspiring, movie about the power of teaching. So if you haven’t ever seen it, check it out. And I can’t wait to see who the other nominees are. Thanks so much.

Dan Meyer (29:53):
Right on. Thank you, Tracy. Wherever you are. <Applause> We’ll move a little quicker here. I’m curious, Bethany, you put Marshall Kane pretty high. I put Bobby Fischer pretty high. What do you have to say about Marshall Kane for us here?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:04):
Well, I just wanna say two things. One is that, like Zak said, he has this code of conduct that he brings in. And he stays true to it no matter what happens. If you saw him in in Community, you know that he held himself up to such high esteem, but not just himself, his students as well. And he took accountability when he felt he had done wrong, even though, well, that’s controversy. But first—oh, the other thing, rest in peace, Michael K. Williams. Oh my gosh. The actor who plays Marshall K. And the thing that I wanna say most of all about it is that he brings his whole self to the classroom. He was in prison for decades. He brings his whole self and says, “This is who I was. This is who I am today. And this is how we can work together as a community.”

Dan Meyer (30:58):
That’s big. I love your comments about code of conduct too. It makes me wish that Ms. Frizzle had a code of conduct also.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:05):
I knew that was coming back!

Chris Nho (31:06):
Two slides ago, Dan. That was two slides ago.

Dan Meyer (31:08):
Can’t let it go. So yeah, I love what you said there. I have no strong beef here either way. Bobby Fischer’s a movie I have loved dearly and can’t be objective about it. I love that the kid in that movie, more than any other movie here, the kid teaches the adults so much through his innocence and how he challenges them and how they’re treating him. Dig all that so much. Will not, will not begrudge anyone any vote either way here. I do begrudge many of you your vote in previous rounds. <Audience laughs> So let’s just, let’s hear. We’re not gonna ask you folks at all to chitchat. We’re gonna move on this one. So would you folks make some noise here for Marshall Kane in Community? OK. OK. And would you make some noise here for Bobby Fischer, the kid in Bobby Fischer, the ensemble? <Audience cheers, applauds>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:56):
Marshall Kane.

Dan Meyer (31:57):
Marshall Kane takes it. All right. Good job, Marshall Kane! All right. Zak’s feeling good. Moving on to the final four here, Zak, right on. OK. Our last—the Northwest Division here is also the large urban district division here. We have a couple different teachers in sets of large urban schools. They’re nominated, they’re advanced by a couple people here. One is past president of NCTM, Robert Berry. And another is Fawn Nguyen, Southern California phenom. Great teacher and friend of lots of us. Um, let’s see who they nominated here. First from Robert Berry, let’s see, who is it here? Janine Teagues from Abbott Elementary.

Abbott Elementary dialogue (32:37):
“Hey, you know what? I’m probably probably gonna be Kenny’s second-grade teacher. Why don’t you just let him get a head start with me today?” “That’d be great.” “Yeah? OK. Hey, Kenny, would you like to be in my group today?” “Not really.” “That’s the spirit.”

Robert Berry (32:54):
My nomination is gonna be Quinta Brunson, the Emmy Award-winning Quinta Brunson from Abbott Elementary. Janine Teagues is the character. She exemplifies care not only from an affect way, but she also exemplifies care in the things that she does for her students. While the scenes in the show are entertaining, they do represent the challenges that teachers experience when they’re trying to meet the needs of her students. So she goes, goes all out for her students and finding resources. She accesses other people to get resources for her students. But the care shows up in the way that she is mindful of their needs. And so, for me, when I think about teachers and teaching, sometimes we can talk about pedagogy, but sometimes we also can talk about those kind of intangibles that makes a teacher a great teacher. It is apparent from her students that she cares about them, she supports them, and she goes all out 100% for her students. Janine Teagues, Quinta Brunson is, I think, is my choice of the best teacher on television because of the realism and the representation that she brings to this character of what teaching is about. <Applause>

Dan Meyer (34:28):
Right on. Right on. OK. OK. Next up, we’ve got, Fawn Nguyen is nominating Erin Gruwell from Freedom Writers. Here we go.

Hilary Swank in Freedom Writers movie (34:39):
“Look, you can either sit in your seats reading those workbooks or you can play a game. Either way, you’re in here till the bell rings. OK? This is called the Line Game. I’m gonna ask you a question. If that question applies to you, you step onto the line and then step back away for the next question. Easy, right? The first question. How many of you have the new Snoop Dog album? <kids move around> OK, back away. Next question. How many of you have seen Boys in the Hood?”

Fawn Nguyen (35:26):
We all learn about Miss G and her 150 students in the movie Freedom Writers starring Hilary Swank. All great teachers share a common set of traits. They care deeply about their students, have high expectations of them, and always believing wholeheartedly that they will succeed. Great teachers go above and beyond, not because they extraordinary—as Anne Gruwell would always refer to herself as an ordinary teacher—but because extraordinary things happen to people when we believe in them, give them hope, help them write their own story with a different ending. So what stood out for me with Miss G is the scope of her reach, the ever-expanding sphere of her humanity. The red tape she had placed on the classroom floor for the line game shows just how much we all have in common despite our differences. Her students didn’t just learn from her; they learned from one another. If you’d like to be part of this expanding sphere to give voice and hope, please check out Freedom Writers Foundation dot org.

Dan Meyer (36:38):
OK. This right here is a tough one for us. Thank you, Fawn. We collectively ranked—that’s our number one seed and number eight seed, which I hasten to say does not have to do with Erin Gruwell, a person, but the portrayal and the movie. So we don’t have like a whole lot of…there’s not a lot of defense we have to offer here of our eighth seed. And I heard like a kind of a little bit of a murmur over the crowd on Erin Gruwell. So I’m more interested than having a defense back and forth. I’d be curious what you, Bethany, think about what, like, what both movies have to say about like, what teaching is, especially teaching urban schools with black and brown kids and lower-class kids, for instance. They both have, I think, very different things to say about them. Do you have thoughts about that?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:19):
Well, it’s interesting because there is some overlap in the sense that the arguments that both Fawn and Robert Berry put out, they both care deeply about their students, right? We’re not gonna argue that. They care deeply. And something that I would say about Miss Teagues is there’s something about the way that she sees not only her classroom, her students, but she sees all of the students in the school as her students. And her idea of resource generation is really helping the teachers to generate resources from their community themselves, and to also realize that the students see themselves reflected in the teachers. And I think that—you know, again, this is not about the real person—but the movie portrayal, and we often see kind of this, for Freedom Writers, we often see this like, Great Last Hope whisked in and her personal sacrifices are what makes these students, these brown and black students’ transformation possible. Because of her sacrifices. Including her marriage. Including, you know, three jobs. And it’s just portrayed in a way that I think really celebrates her sacrifices rather than what the students have already brought—they already come into the room bringing so much as they are, already, without her intervention.

Dan Meyer (38:38):
I love the portrayal of the teacher as part of a community of teachers. Versus in so many of these movies, it’s the teacher as the only person who gets it, you know, oftentimes coming from outside of the world of teaching and everyone’s against them and wants ’em just to fall in line and do the thing we always do, and they’re the outlier. But in Abbott Elementary, it’s like we all rise and we fall together. And teachers are investing in each other’s success, especially with Gregory the longterm sub. We’re all rooting for his, you know, his flourishing. I love that. And yeah. That’s bigtime.

Chris Nho (39:09):
Yeah, I think one interesting thing is that Freedom Writers, when it came out, I think it was like a commercial success.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:17):
Oh, big time. Yeah. It was.

Chris Nho (39:18):
It probably influenced a lot of people to try teaching out. So I do wonder what it says about us, right? Like that we want teaching to fit this narrative, and we wanna be those people who could go into a classroom and <puts on “cool voice”> “Y’all listen to Snoop Dog?” and just have that question HIT. <laughter> And you know, I’ve taught in a large urban school district, and I’ve been that person and I’ve seen other people try and be that person. And I think stepping away from it a little bit, just—it’s a reflection of what people want out of teaching and what they think better education looks like.

Dan Meyer (39:57):
Yeah, yeah. This idea that, so I’m a middle-class person, let’s say, and like, there’s this idea, like, “I know what I would do if I was going into circumstances of impoverishment.” Like I have—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:06):
“All they really need is…”

Dan Meyer (40:07):
…for me to give ’em some real talk and tell ’em, you know, pull their pants up or whatever, listen to Snoop Dog, that kind of thing. And that will be the key. And that’s not how it is in, you know, in Jack Black in School of Rock or Tina Fey school, which are, you know, coded as largely like upper-class or largely white schools. And in those movies, it’s interesting, like how it’s about students discovering themselves, oftentimes. And the central figures are often students. And the students need to reject an oppressive parent figure or something and find themselves. But no, in Freedom Writers, it’s like, “You need to become more like the middle-class teachers who are coming in here to give you this wisdom.” It’s just interesting. I do find it—a pet peeve of mine is when movies portray teachers as only successful if you endure, for instance, the failure of your marriage, or even in Stand and Deliver, for instance, like Jaime Escalante, they depict him having a heart attack. And, like, the job oughta be…easier. <Audience laughs>

Chris Nho (41:04):
Truth.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:05):
That’s the barometer for how much….

Dan Meyer (41:09):
Like, no heart attacks and no divorces related to the job, that kind of thing. I do love how in Abbott—one last thing and we’ll vote and Abbott will win <audience laughs>—is like how, like there, there is a lot of degradation in Abbott, but it’s not a divorce or a heart attack—it’s the petty indignities of asking a student, “Do you wanna hang with me?” And a student says, “Nah, not really.” And that just spoke to me like how it’s not cinematic, but teaching, successful teaching, is like a collection of developing an immunity to students saying, “You’re not hot.” <Laugh> You know? And so I love that. I do wish that there was more depiction of students in Abbott Elementary. It’s a lot of adult stuff. Whatever. Give it up for Abbott, if you would, please. Let’s just get this done here. All right. That’s plenty. That’s plenty. Not gonna ask folks about Freedom Writers. OK, let’s move on to— all right, let’s hear it for Freedom Writers! Yeah. OK, cool. We go, yep.

Chris Nho (42:05):
Plot twist!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:07):
OK, let’s see our final four. Cut and paste. Real time. Real time.

Audience member (42:12):
Where’s Dolores Umbridge?

Dan Meyer (42:14):
Oh….

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:16):
Hey, did you hear that? He said, “Where’s Dolores Umbridge?”

Dan Meyer (42:20):
All right. OK.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:20):
See, we missed so many. We could…

Dan Meyer (42:21):
So coming up here, we’ve got in the Eastern Conference, Tina Fey and Ms. Frizzle. Y’all know how I feel about that one. Let’s just get this one done. OK, let’s give it up for Tina Fey. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers> OK. All right. Yes! Let’s give it up for menace to children everywhere, the terror, the Ms. Frizzle. <Audience cheers> One more time for Tina Fey. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers> One more time for Ms. Frizzle. Let’s hear it. <Audience cheers>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:59):
Yeah. OK.

Dan Meyer (43:00):
It took ’em one round, but they made the right call in the end. <Laugh>

Chris Nho (43:04):
All it took was 10 minutes of constant Ms. Frizzle-bashing. <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (43:09):
Persevering and problem-solving, that’s my game. Yes. All right. So, do either of you want to influence the audience one way or the other?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:16):
That’s not how I play, Dan.

Dan Meyer (43:18):
Oh, OK. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. You’re good. On Abbott versus Marshall Kane, should we just let ’em have it? All right. All right. Give it up For Abbott Elementary. Not bad. And for Marshall Kane. OK. OK. I hear Zak and five other people. All right, cool. <laugh> Right on. All right. We got our, we got our finals,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:45):
We did it. We made it to two. And we know: We left out a lot of people. Right? And honestly, I kind of wish we could poll like everyone. I mean, think you put it on Twitter, right? Like, who would you pick? But I would say we had a pretty solid eight there. I’m excited to see who… Look at the little crown he put, you guys. Come on.

Dan Meyer (44:05):
I worked hard for you. For you. <Laugh> Yeah. I liked that it was a good bunch that had a lot of different kinds of qualities…and lack of qualities in some cases. And it allowed us that—I shouldn’t knock her while she’s down, and she IS down, it’s true. <Laugh> And I appreciate the conversation we’ve had, what they have revealed overall about teaching and what the world wants teaching to be versus what it actually is or actually should be. I appreciate that. So let’s settle this here. Give it up, if you would, for Abbott Elementary. <Audience cheers> And give it up for Tina Fey in Mean Girls. <Audience cheers>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (44:49):
Wow.

Dan Meyer (44:51):
That was close. I almost give that to Tina Fey.

Audience member (44:55):
Yeah, we do!

Dan Meyer (44:55):
I don’t know. That was a bracket-buster for me right there. Yeah. I lost money in the office pool off that right there. Maybe let’s just find out one more time here. One more time.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:03):
Last time.

Dan Meyer (45:03):
Time to summon up all your conviction on one or the other here. No half-measures right now. All right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:07):
Emmy Award-winning Quinta Brunson.

Dan Meyer (45:09):
Yeah, you saw Robert Berry on that, right? He was like, “Oh, I got one more card to play. Emmy Award-winning.” That’s admissible. That’s admissible. We’ll take that. All right. So…give it up for Abbott Elementary, one last time. <Audience cheers> OK. All right. All right. And give it up for Tina Fey in Mean Girls. <Audience cheers>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:30):
Drumroll, please!

Chris Nho (45:33):
Best teacher is….

Dan Meyer (45:34):
Tina Fey in Mean Girls! Yeah. Not a bad pick.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (45:39):
I love it. And I think, too, I think we’re gonna have a little bit of a more reflective lens than we thought we did when we see depictions of teachers in film and television. And, you know, hopefully we’ll see some new tropes come in, right?

Dan Meyer (45:55):
Yep. Yeah. Every dollar we spend on movies with lousy teachers is just encouraging these people to make more lousy teacher movies, you know? Awesome. Thank you for being here for a live taping—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:06):
Thank you for being here.

Dan Meyer (46:06):
—of our podcast, Math Teacher Lounge, in a hot room. Appreciate that. Yeah, it’s been fun for us to have you here. Um, super-important, super-important final remark: Bethany loves Oprah and Oprah occasionally, in the show—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:18):
Is she coming?! Is she here?!

Dan Meyer (46:19):
Not here! Not here! Calm down. Calm down. Um, but we do have in Oprah fashion, not something—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:24):
Oh. Oh, OK. Oh, that’s, that’s OK. Sorry. I got, had really excited for a second. As if the Amplify playing cards, The Amplify t-shirts being chucked at you at high speed—I did try to get a t-shirt cannon, and that was quickly ruled out <laugh>. They didn’t know about my rocket arm, right?

Dan Meyer (46:46):
Yeah, you got a cannon. <Laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (46:47):
Yeah. Oh, that’s a compliment. Oh, is that a compliment? Thank you, Dan. Thank you. Look under your seat because we have five winners. We wanna thank you for being here in person. We wanna thank the folks who are listening. We wanna thank Amplify. Oh my God. Somebody just pulled off the chair tag. You get to take that chair home with you.

Dan Meyer (47:08):
Does anybody have a prize?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:10):
OK, stand up if you…stand up if you…Yes! Stand up if you have one!

Dan Meyer (47:16):
Free set of classroom dry-erase boards, right here. Congratulations.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:22):
And for you who pulled off the chair tag, I don’t know. We gotta we gotta find something for you.

Dan Meyer (47:27):
Put that in your backpack.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:30):
Thank you again for being here. Thank you. Amplify. Thank you, Desmos. Thank you. Dan Meyer.

Dan Meyer (47:36):
Thank you folks. Chris, thank you buddy.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:38):
Chris! Chris Nho, everybody!

Dan Meyer (47:40):
We will be, we will be at—Bethany and I will be at the booth, if you wanna chit-chat and hang out, sign some stuff. Whatever. You wanna have Bethany sign you, she’ll do that. Um, come on down to the Amplify booth and we’ll—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:50):
We’ll talk to you more about Ms. Frizzle.

Dan Meyer (47:52):
Fun and prizes. I will share with my real thoughts about Ms. Frizzle down there. I’d love to see you. Thanks for being here, folks.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (47:57):
Thanks for listening. Bye.

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What Dan Meyer says about math teaching

“Teaching, more than other professions, is a generational profession. The kinds of joyful experiences we offer—or don’t offer—now affect the experiences students that haven’t even been born yet will have years later.”

– Dan Meyer

Meet the guests

Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer taught high school math to students who didn’t like high school math. He has advocated for better math instruction on CNN, Good Morning America, Everyday With Rachel Ray, and TED.com. He earned his doctorate from Stanford University in math education and is currently the Dean of Research at Desmos, where he explores the future of math, technology, and learning. Dan has worked with teachers internationally and in all 50 United States and was named one of Tech & Learning’s 30 Leaders of the Future.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Bethany Lockhart Johnson is an elementary school educator and author. Prior to serving as a multiple-subject teacher, she taught theater and dance and now loves incorporating movement and creative play into her classroom. Bethany is committed to helping students find joy in discovering their identities as mathematicians. In addition to her role as a full-time classroom teacher, Bethany is a Student Achievement Partners California Core Advocate and is active in national and local mathematics organizations. Bethany is a member of the Illustrative Mathematics Elementary Curriculum Steering Committee and serves as a consultant, creating materials to support families during distance learning.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S2-04: Gamification in the K–8 classroom

Podcast episode graphic featuring guest Fabian Hofmann, titled "Gamification in the K–8 classroom," from Science Connections Season 2, Episode 4, with an illustration of a planet.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with his colleague and friend Fabian Hofmann to talk through gamification in the K–8 classroom. They discuss Fabian’s experience teaching outside of the United States, and the differences in classrooms outside of the country. Fabian explains the integration of game mechanisms in the classroom, standard-based grading, and shifting student thinking about learning by forming strong relationships. Fabian also shares how he created a new STEM course at his school revolving around his own passion for Star Wars. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT >

Fabian Hofmann (00:00):

In Mr. Hofmann’s class, I get to earn points and I get to be a Jedi. I can suspend my disbelief and I’m learning history, but at the same time, I’m traveling through the galaxy.

Eric Cross (00:13):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Fabian Hofmann. Fabian is a middle school IB educator, currently teaching seventh grade multimedia design and history at Albert Einstein Academy’s middle school here in San Diego, California. He also hosts the podcast Rebel Teacher Alliance, a podcast dedicated to encouraging and supporting teachers to rethink student engagement. Fabian’s one of the most innovative teachers that I’ve ever met. His use of technology and gamification makes learning fun and accessible for our students. And I have firsthand experience with these students because we teach on the same team and have worked alongside each other during my entire career as a teacher. In this episode, we discuss gamification of the classroom, how he approaches grading from an innovator’s mindset, and his newest STEM class, Immersive Design, where his students are working with former Disney Imagineers to completely renovate their classroom into an interactive Star Wars-themed learning environment. And now, please enjoy my conversation with my good friend and colleague, Fabian Hofmann. We’ve worked together for how many years now? How many years have you been at Einstein?

Fabian Hofmann (01:23):

Well, I started when you started, like after you were student teaching, so 2014.

Eric Cross (01:28):

OK, so it’s been a while.

Fabian Hofmann (01:30):

Yeah. And then I took two years off and I went to Hawaii. I couldn’t handle the pressure. And then I came back. So we’ve worked together for six years but known each other for eight.

Eric Cross (01:39):

What’s your origin story? We’re gonna talk about your origin story. I told you.

Fabian Hofmann (01:42):

All right, cool. Right. So when I was a little boy…no. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (01:46):

This podcast is not that long!

Fabian Hofmann (01:49):

So no, I started out, teaching in 2009. I started student teaching in Germany and was teaching history and English. Did this two-year student-teaching program there. And then, when I was done, my wife and I, she’s American, we got married and we decided to move to the States. And then I started teaching at a German cultural center called the Goethe-Institut in San Francisco. We lived in the Bay Area. And from there, after a year we moved down to San Diego; I started subbing; I worked for a year at High Tech High. I taught humanities there. And then, after that year, I ended up at Einstein teaching German because that was what was available. I didn’t want to teach German. That wasn’t like, on the top of my list. But it made sense because I had taught German in San Francisco and it kind of was like, “Well, I can do that, I guess.” And then, yeah, and then I went back to—we went to Hawaii for a couple of years and then I came back here to start teaching history. So I’ve taught like a million things essentially.

Eric Cross (02:52):

And then during that time, what’s your evolution been like in the classroom? Kind of like your view of education? And how does that play out in your day-to-day with kids?

Fabian Hofmann (02:59):

So when I started teaching here in the States, I noticed that it’s very different. Technology was much further along here than it was in Germany. So when I got here and we had like an iPad cart; I helped setting up the iPad carts. And I worked with the Chromebooks and I was like, holy, holy crap, this is so cool. Like, kids can like actually do things with this technology. And then, I mean, I love technology. I’ve had an iPad when it came out and stuff like that. And so I was like, “Oh, so how about we use this in our classroom?” And so I always moved—I moved very quickly to having students create on the iPad. And at first it was like, “Oh, we use the Apple apps and stuff.” And then I went to an ed-tech teacher summit here in San Diego and my eyes were like opened to, “Oh my God, there’s so much more than just the Apple apps.” And ever since then I was like, “OK, we’re gonna use this; we’re gonna do that.” It’s just crazy stuff that I thought was cool and that students really seemed to enjoy, because it wasn’t like a typical language class; it was more like, “Well, what can we do to create, and how can we somehow still use the language but we are learning coding at the same time, or we are creating something in 3D at the same time?” Like, I was always trying to make it have two angles: the language angle, obviously, and then also the technology angle.

Eric Cross (04:25):

What was it that kept you kind of pushing? ‘Cause I remember the beginning in the Classcraft days to where you are now, I feel like you’re like light-years ahead of where you started.

Fabian Hofmann (04:37):

So you were actually the one who showed me Classcraft, which is like a gamification portal, kind of off-the-shelf thing that you can subscribe to. It has some free features and it’s like a gamification platform where students can create characters. And then these characters go on adventures. That’s like their avatar, and they get experience points in the classroom game and stuff happens. You can create, like, adventure paths for them. So if you have an assignment that you want students to do that has different steps, so, that could be an adventure path. That’s what I liked about Classcraft, is like this idea of like, “OK, we’re taking a game and applying it.” But it wasn’t enough for me. And so I started developing my own classroom game. I did some reading. I met online with John Meehan, worked with him. I read the book by Michael Matera, Explore Like a Pirate. And so it just broadened my whole world to, or just opened the world of gamification to me.

Eric Cross (05:38):

You present on gamification; you mentor other teachers on gamification. You host a podcast where you talk about it. But for those people who haven’t done it or gotten into it or maybe have a perception of it maybe that’s not quite accurate, can you talk a little bit about like what gamification is and what it’s not?

Fabian Hofmann (05:54):

  1. So the biggest difference…we all know game-based learning, because we all do it. We use Quizlet; we use quizzes; we use Gimkit, Blookit, Jeopardy, anything like that. Those are game based. That’s game-based learning. So using a game to facilitate learning. Which is great. I love game-based learning too. But the difference is with gamification, in the pure definition of gamification, is that you’re using game mechanics and elements and apply them to a non-game setting. A couple of smart educators were like, “Why don’t we just do that in our classroom?” And so we borrow these elements, these mechanics, these game mechanics, like getting experience points, and applying them to the classroom. So anything that students do, they earn points. So they turn in an assignment, that gets you a hundred points. They go and do something extra for the class, they get 50 points. Whatever it is, whatever your value is. That’s one aspect, like a leaderboard, virtual money, stuff like that that just in reality is not necessary, but you’re putting it somewhere where it doesn’t exist. And all of a sudden students have this weird shift in their view where it’s like, “Well, school is school, but in Mr. Hofmann’s class, I get to earn points and I get to be a Jedi and I can suspend my disbelief and I’m learning history, but at the same time I’m like traveling through the galaxy.” And it’s just amazing how that shift happens just because we’re changing the language a little bit.

Eric Cross (07:29):

Yeah. You seem to have like tapped into something that is already kind of in that zeitgeist culture thing. We’re gaming and it appeals to—I know it appeals to our students regardless of how they feel about even the subject that’s being taught, the fact that they’re immersed into this environment where they’re taking on this character role and they’re part of this bigger narrative. And you’ve so dynamically constructed this whole storyline and these experiences, and they’re learning experiences, like, they’re learning, but they’re enjoying it in a different way. But I wanted to ask you about something that I really admire that you do, and it’s how you grade. And I remember the first time you said this, we were in a parent-teacher conference and we’re all talking on Zoom with these parents and we’re all sharing our spiel. And you go, I don’t grade kids. They grade themselves. Can you talk a little bit about your conferencing with students? The rubric you use like that that, I’ve really been paying close attention to lately.

Fabian Hofmann (08:24):

Yeah. So, when I was working in Hawaii, I noticed I was teaching English, and grading papers in English is really not fun. Like, that is like my least favorite thing. Some teachers are like, “Yeah, it’s grading! Awesome! I can read stuff!” For me, it’s like, yes, I like to read stuff, but I—and it was the same in German class. I gave them feedback. Sometimes I would use oral feedback, I would, like, record stuff for them, and they would listen to it, and then they would work on it. And so I noticed when I’m giving them feedback and its oral feedback, they’re more inclined to actually work on the stuff that I was critiquing, versus when I sat down and I wrote something. They would never read it. Or some would, and most of them would not. And so I was like, this sucks. <Laughs> And I encountered this book called Hacking Assessment, because it’s such a waste of time, right? You spend so much time, because you wanna do the due diligence. And for those few kids who actually do care, that benefits them. But I want this to benefit everybody. And so I read this book called Hacking Assessment, by Starr Sackstein. And she talks about how she put the onus of grading into the student hands, essentially. And so she did standard-based grading and essentially said, “You know what? Here’s the thing. I am not going to grade you anymore. You are going to get a rubric that we are going to dissect and explain and make sure that you understand. And then you sit down and you give yourself a grade based on this rubric.” And I was like, “Wow, what? That is….I can do that? And the cool thing about this book is that she covers all the roadblocks that we as teachers have. And she explains, like, she gives examples on what we can do to convince parents, to convince admin, to convince the community, convince other teachers why what we’re doing is much, much better for a student than the previous system is. If you think about it, when a student comes into school, they start at a hundred, they start the year at a hundred, and all they’re doing is just lose points. And they’re just trying to keep up. Right? And it kind of flips this on its head, because not only with the gamification, I’m changing the name of the game, literally, but I’m also now with ungrading, I’m giving them the responsibility and the accountability to really look at their stuff and really be critical about how they’re doing. And I taught like normal in my first year in Hawaii when I was teaching English, by me grading everything and turning it and giving it to them. And I used peer grade and I did all that kind of stuff. But in the end, I was always the one responsible for the grade. But then I started to do the ungrading move and I just started to conference with kids and started giving them feedback, with the help of gamification, because there’s like a bunch of rubrics you can use to make it more fun. But all of a sudden, kids that in the year before would’ve failed my class in English, because they were English learners; they were just not into it; they didn’t care as much…all of a sudden that flipped completely. I did the exact same content again. We had to write an essay and all of a sudden, the essays were all like, up there, because we sat down, we talked about it, we went through this review process, gave them feedback. In the end, they could say, “Hey, I want this grade. And then I still have the last say. I would say, say, “Yep, sounds good.” Or “If you wanna get an A on this, or whatever it was, a 4, then here are the things you still need to do.” And because I did that, all of a sudden, the students are like, “Oh, that’s all I need to do?” And then they did it and turned it in, and all of a sudden, they got a 4. It’s, it’s amazing how that the conferencing with students, how that shifted their attitude. And I got to know my students way better than I ever had.

Eric Cross (12:20):

Yeah. That’s, that’s one of the things that I’ve noticed. And I watch you get so much more facetime with students having conferences than I do. I find myself grading…and, you know, at our school, it’s mastery-based instruction, so students can retake assessments, but you’re absolutely right: I give a grade; they get a score; and some of ’em score lower, but in their minds it’s like, OK, I’m done with that. And even though they can retake it, such a small percentage actually do. But the information that I give them in the feedback is often not read. But you’re sitting down and having a conversation and really listening and there’s so much more of a connection that you have. I just think it’s so rich. But the question I have now is how do you make the time for those conversations with those kids in your class?

Fabian Hofmann (13:01):

Yeah, it’s definitely a learning curve. Like the first year I did it, it was horrible. Like <laugh>, it cost so much time. Because kids came, because when it was time to grading, because I had not figured it out yet, I had not streamlined it. And I’m still learning. I’m still trying to figure this out and do it even better. But the idea is that you do something, you check in with me really quick. That doesn’t have to be like a full-on conference. It’s—I walk around or I call them up and say, “Hey, I saw you working on this. How did, how are you doing there? How many—” Like, let’s say I use a rubric that gives them crystals for different parts. They write the introduction; they write a bibliography; whatever, so I can bring them up and say, “Hey, how is the bibliography looking?” And they’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m missing…like, I only have like one or two sources.” And then we say, “OK, so right now you would get two crystals out of three because you have something. When you come back, you get all the crystals.” And so that’s a gamified aspect again, right? They’re coming back to get more crystals, not because they wanna do better necessarily. But because they’re like, “Hey, I wanna get those crystals because it gives me points in the game.” They are very good about like grading themselves and kind of like, they’re really hard on themselves sometimes too. And I have students who are like—

Eric Cross (14:08):

Yeah, they are.

Fabian Hofmann (14:09):

“Well, how can you make sure that people don’t just give themselves an eight?” And I’m like, “Because there’s a system in place that that does not happen. Like, there is a rubric, and if they cannot back up what they want, then it’s not gonna happen. They can write an eight all day long. I’m still the person entering it into the grade book!” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (14:27):

And let me premise this for listeners who don’t teach at IB schools, which is probably like most people.

Fabian Hofmann (14:31):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (14:32):

So IB, we teach zero through eight on a rubric system. And seven-eight is kind of like the A, kind of, quote-unquote. I know IB people are probably cringing when I say that, but <laugh>, you know, when you transfer it to like a high school? Seven, eight would be the highest score, you know. Four, five, six. So when we say eight, we’re talking about the highest score.

Fabian Hofmann (14:49):

Yeah. And so it’s really interesting because I can call them out on stuff, and it’s a one-on-one conversation, right? And if, especially if they turn something in that is not great, and they give themselves like a—I don’t know, like a C, let’s say, or a four, or whatever it is—and they’re like, “And you’re happy with that?” And then they’re standing there and they’re like, like, “No…?” <Laugh> And all of a sudden there’s a conversation. Where it’s like, and then I can be very intentionally like, “Hey man, I know you can do better. I would not—I’m not gonna accept this. I’m gonna push you to turn this in again.” And most of them actually sit down and do more. It’s a process. It takes a while. It’s not pretty in the beginning. But the payout is, so it’s incredible. Just like the amount of time that I get to spend with students, like specifically talking to them about things that they still need to work on, celebrating stuff they do, it’s incredible. Like the relationships are just so different than what I had years ago.

Eric Cross (15:50):

And you’ve also created a system where we preach—and schools always talk about this Dweck growth mindset and not having a fixed mindset, but I wonder how many opportunities or how systems are set up that are actually fixed, where it’s like one and done, OK, you did this exam and then that’s it, but there’s no opportunities to grow until the next exam! Which is gonna be….or whatever the assessment is, which is a whole different area of content or different topic or whatever. But here, you’re actually able to facilitate this growth mindset and push back if a student says, like, “Well that’s—I just got a four,” and you can actually pour into them and talk to them. And do you ever hear more about a student’s story as to why they were where they’re at, as you’re having these conferences?

Fabian Hofmann (16:29):

Oh, absolutely. Like for some kids who, who are just like not getting the work done or whatever, there’s always something where it’s not because they’re not smart or because they’re lazy. It’s like, sometimes, literally they tell you, well, ’cause I ask them, “Hey, can you work on this at home?” Or “Can you come in during lunch, after school, whatever? I’m always here.” And then they drop some bombs on you, like, “Hey, my parents, like, divorced. My mom lives in Mexico.” ‘Cause we live in San Diego. So some students live in Mexico and come to school here in San Diego and they get stuck at the border or, even though they have internet at home, they have to share. It’s like kind of what we experienced during the pandemic, where it’s like, there’s like three kids at home and one computer. Stuff like that. Right? And it’s these stories where you’re like, first of all, it’s very humbling ’cause they’re going through stuff that I never had to go through. I mean, my childhood was not amazing, but compared to what they’re going through, it’s like, “Oh yeah, that exists.” And it kind of like puts you in your place a little bit. It’s also because of the system that I use. There’s no late, really, in my class. Some of the students are like, “I need to subtract points from my grade because I turned it in late.” And I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no. The fact that you’re doing it is quote-unquote punishment enough ’cause you have to do it outside of class, you have to do it at home; you have to do it during lunch. Like, that is, that is not comfortable. You’re still doing it. So why would I punish you by taking a grade away? That doesn’t make sense. You got the work done. That’s all that matters.” I try to be that person that like is understanding. It’s still pushing them to do their best and reminding them and harping on them. And with the spark that I threw in there and fanning that flame of them becoming a better student because I’m supporting them. You’re supporting them. We’re all—our seventh-grade team is incredibly supportive. And then some people might push back, like “That’s not preparing them for the real world.” This is the real world.

Eric Cross (18:20):

There’s a lot of life skills that they’re gonna need…but like, they’re 12 right now! Or 11 or six, you know, whatever it is! Let’s—we can hold off on taxes and the crushing weight of adult reality later on. You got it done! Well-done! I do wanna talk about this thing that is your baby lately, this embryonic thing that you’ve been growing and I’ve been fortunate to be able to watch it since its inception. But you have this class that you created from scratch that’s essentially a STEM class. Two questions: Why did you create the class? And you’ve done some uncommon things. I’m gonna leave it wide open just for you to talk about it because it’s your baby and I’ve been fortunate to be able to watch it from the start. So can you talk about that?

Fabian Hofmann (19:01):

So yeah, so I’m obsessed with Star Wars. I think that’s putting it mildly. I love Star Wars. Always have. My classroom game is called Jedi Academy. And I’ve been playing around with this idea of creating a room that is more immersive. So I put a space, like a window to space, on my wall. I have the Millennium Falcon in my room. I have like a bunch of Resistance stuff or whatever. Anything Star Wars, you can find in my classroom. It’s not like overloaded, but I was very intentional in the things that I put in there, because I want my students to come in and feel like they are playing the game. And one of those things that I used was like smells; I used sounds to try to immerse them more. And then so one day I was like, wouldn’t it be cool to create a classroom that looks literally like a Star Wars set? Like you walked onto a set. Onto a spaceship, onto a rebel base, onto whatever it is. And how can I, how can I make that happen? And then we talked about it and you were like, “Yeah, how about you let the kids do it?” And that’s kind of how the course was born. And now I have students in my classroom who are in the process of designing a classroom based on Star Wars. And they’re gonna build everything. And we’re all learning at the same time. I’ve never done anything like this. I do like STEM, but I’ve never like actually made it a class. And so I contacted a bunch of people on LinkedIn ’cause I was like, it would be cool to talk to an Imagineer and to get like my foot in the door at Disney and then have an Imagineer come in and tell us about what they did. I have this book called The Art of Galaxy’s Edge, which is like the Star Wars land in Disneyland. And I just looked at the list and was like, “Who could be a good person to contact here?” And it said one of them was Eric Baker, and it said, “Executive Creative Director.” And I googled him or I looked for him on LinkedIn and I found him and I was like, “I’m just gonna send him a message. I’m just gonna tell him what I do in my class in history, gamification and all that, and they’re Jedi, and blah, blah, blah.” And he wrote back! Like, he was the only person that wrote back. I wrote a bunch of people and he was like, “Yeah, I’d be super-interested. I don’t know what you want me to do, but I’m down.” And so it created this relationship between me and Eric Baker who used to work for Imagineering, who are like the people at Disney who create the rides in the park and all that. And I talked to him and he gave me some feedback on the room. And then he was like, “Oh, so if you ever want me to talk to students, I’m down.” I was like, “Uh, yes!” And so we had him Zoom in. He talked about his life and how he became one of the people to look for when it comes to theme park design and to create immersive experiences. And I contacted other people on YouTube, like somebody who is like a Star Wars room builder. He’s willing to chat with us about this project. And then, I discovered that there is this thing called Imagination Campus at Disneyland, which they offer workshops on immersive storytelling. And I was like, “Oh, that’s what I want! I want my students to tell a story with my room!” And so I wrote up a proposal. Took a long time, but they signed—our admin signed it off. We kind of financed it. And then, about two weeks ago, you came along, another teacher, and we took 30something students to Disneyland and they did this workshop where they learned all about like how the Imagineers design story elements and put them in the parks. And then we took all of the kids to Galaxy’s Edge. And we took a bunch of photos. We went on the rides together. We had this collective experience. And it was life-changing for a lot of students. Because, I mean, we’re a Title One school; there’s like, we have about 60% free or reduced lunch. And a lot of them had never been to Disneyland. About half of them had never been. Some of them went when they were little. And so just watching their faces, going to Disneyland, watching them walk into Galaxy’s Edge, experiencing all these things, it was just, my mind was just blown. And I like literally, I don’t know if you noticed, but I was just smiling. Literally.

Eric Cross (23:19):

You were loving it.

Fabian Hofmann (23:20):

Yeah. Then we come back and we have these amazing conversations about design and what they noticed and how they created this immersive experience in their world. And we talk about how we can bring this back to our classroom. And parents are sending emails saying, “Oh my God, we’re so happy that you did this for our kids and you’re the coolest teacher.”

Eric Cross (23:39):

You touched on something that I wanted to ask you about. So you stay connected to people that inspire you, I feel like, or you have a pretty broad network of educators and professionals. Like, how much does that play into what you do in the classroom and the ideas that you have, as your network or your community of people?

Fabian Hofmann (23:57):

So the one network that helped me the most is Twitter. And I know people have opinions about Twitter, for good reason. But when I started to gamify, I just started to follow specific hashtags for areas that interested me. And that was gamification; eXPdup, which is like Explore like a Pirate—it’s an acronym. And it just opened up all these people, all these people, all these educators who are out there just like doing cool stuff and sharing it on Twitter. And I started connecting with them. And one of them is on my podcast. We met through Twitter; we started sharing stuff. We started talking about the things that we do. We both happened to have a gamified classroom. And so we connected over this thing Twitter, and now we’re like friends and we’re presenting together at Q and all those places. Teacher Twitter is incredibly supportive and people want to show you the stuff that they work on, just like I do. Like when I have stuff that I worked out, I shared it on there. And it’s so fun to hear back from teachers saying, “Hey, this looks awesome.” It’s just, it makes you feel good and it makes you feel like, “Oh, what I’m doing is not a total waste of time.” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (25:10):

<laugh> Those thoughts do creep in, right? Like, even though you’re doing something awesome and you might think so, we become our own worst critic sometimes, or we always see the things that we can improve and we overlook the things that we’re doing well. Fabian, where can people hear more about you, about gamification, about what you’re doing in the classroom, about how you’re innovating? I know you talk about this stuff with some—and you talk about it with some pretty legit people in the education industry. So can you tell some folks where they can hear more about it?

Fabian Hofmann (25:37):

So you can find me on Twitter at Hofmann edu—one F, two Ns—edu, and then I also host a podcast called Rebel Teacher Alliance. There’s three of us, where we talk all things gamification. But we also talk to teachers who don’t gamify at all. And we just, we just invite people who are interesting, who have stuff to share, who do cool stuff. You can find the podcast on the internet at Rebel Teacher Alliance dot com. Follow us there. If you wanna be a guest, just send a message and we’ll get you on.

Eric Cross (26:10):

Fabian, I’m gonna gush on you right now, but when you came back to Einstein, I was so happy because I knew that you sharpened me; you make me a better science teacher. Your innovation, your passion for kids, your sense of humor, your outside-the-box thinking, all of that. And when you got onto the seventh-grade team and you were here, I just knew that it was going to be awesome. And it has been. And so as a teaching colleague, as a friend, dude, you just rock, man. I’m super proud of you. And thank you for making me better.

Fabian Hofmann (26:40):

Aw, now I’m starting to cry. It’s like, don’t…

Eric Cross (26:43):

<laugh>. All true, dude. All true, my brother.

Fabian Hofmann (26:46):

Thank you.

Eric Cross (26:46):

All true. And thank you for letting me be part of the journey and I will definitely be walking down the hall asking you questions as I try to implement some of these great ideas that you’re doing with kids. Thanks so much for listening. And now we wanna hear more about you. Do you know any inspiring educators? Nominate them as a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM at amplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s S T E M at amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Fabian Hofmann says about science

“I want my students to come in and feel like they are playing the game. I used smells. I used sounds to try to immerse them more. And then so one day I was like, wouldn’t it be cool to create a classroom that looks literally like a set?”

– Fabian Hofmann

Middle School Educator, Albert Einstein Academies Middle School

Meet the guest

Fabian Hofmann is a middle school International Baccalaureate teacher and host of the Podcast, Rebel Teacher Alliance. He is currently teaching 7th grade History and Multimedia Design just down the hall from Eric Cross at Albert Einstein Academies Middle School in San Diego. To engage students, he uses technology and gamification. Students embark on a year-long journey through a galaxy far, far away to learn the ways of the “Force” and some world history along the way. Follow him on Twitter and check out the Rebel Teacher Alliance podcast.

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Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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S2-02: Developing your own teaching style: Tips from a veteran teacher.

Poster for "Science Connections" podcast with an image of Marilyn Dieppa, featuring a logo of an atom and text promoting season 2, episode 2 about veteran teaching styles.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with veteran educator and former Miami-Dade County Public Schools (M-DCPS) Middle School Science Teacher of the Year, Marilyn Dieppa. During the show, Marilyn shares tips for new teachers, ways to inspire students, and how she utilizes her journalism background to develop literacy skills within her science classroom. She also shares her experiences developing a robotics academy, and the VEX IQ World’s Competition. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Marilyn Dieppa (00:01):
I think my favorite thing is their success. Whether it’s robotics, whether it’s in the classroom, that they pass a test for the first time, those are my moments of success. And that’s what makes me happy.

Eric Cross (00:15):
Marilyn Dieppa is a veteran middle-school science educator at Miami-Dade County public schools. Dieppa launched her school’s STEM Academy in 2016 and developed professional development through the STEM Transformation Institute of Florida International University. Dieppa’s coached numerous new teachers and was the 2018 Miami-Dade County public schools’ middle-school Science Teacher of the Year. In this episode, we discussed her transition from a career in journalism to the science classroom and the value of personal and professional support systems for teacher longevity. And now, please enjoy my conversation with Marilyn Dieppa.

Marilyn Dieppa (00:52):
Nice to meet you, Eric.

Eric Cross (00:53):
Nice to meet you too. Thank you for being willing to come on the podcast.

Marilyn Dieppa (00:58):
Not a problem.

Eric Cross (00:59):
So you’re out in, you’re out in Florida. In Dade County. I’m out here in San Diego. So I’m like literally on the other side of the country. Have you—were you born and raised in Florida?

Marilyn Dieppa (01:09):
I’ve been here for 40 years, so I’ve been here most of my life. Yeah. I’m Puerto Rican, but I was, you know, my young childhood, I was in New Jersey. And then when I was 15, I came down.

Eric Cross (01:23):
I looked at like your—some of your accolades, which are really impressive. The things that you’ve done for students with robotics, and all the education, or, kind of like teacher enrichment, a lot of mentoring and coaching that you do now.

Marilyn Dieppa (01:35):
I am part of leadership team for the district. I do a lot of training. I work on curriculum. I help with pacing guides to make sure that everything is based on what the state wants, what the district wants. I have done a lot for the district in the last, probably 20 years.

Eric Cross (01:52):
What got you into teaching initially? What was your…like, why middle school science? We’re like a unique group.

Marilyn Dieppa (01:57):
This is the second career choice for me. So I’ve only been doing this for 24 years. I was a journalism major and then I got married and then I had my child and I wanted to do something. My thing was that I wanted to go to Iraq. I wanted to cover the news. I have a minor in Middle Eastern culture. so there was a lot of things that were in my mind when I was young, pre-married. and after, you know, you have children, priorities kind of change. So I totally changed, pretty much had to start from scratch, with my degree, because nothing kind of transferred over from journalism to teaching. So before I actually did that, I started subbing just to see if I liked it. And I fell in love with teaching right away. And that’s how I got into it. So my degree is really in elementary.

Eric Cross (02:45):
Now, when you were subbing, you were doing elementary school.

Marilyn Dieppa (02:47):
Yes. Pretty much elementary.

Eric Cross (02:48):
How did you go from there to like, middle-school science?

Marilyn Dieppa (02:50):
My thing was writing, not necessarily math and science. But I ended up with my cooperating teacher, my CT, she was a math and science teacher. So I was put with her, and who knew that I liked science and I liked math? So I ended up with that and I infused a lot of labs. So in elementary you tend to—I think teachers are a little bit afraid of the labs, so I infused a lot of literature with my labs. I infused all my—I did it like a whole-group type thing, everything I did with my labs, I incorporated the math. I incorporated the science. I incorporated, you know, the reading with it. And from there, I just—you know, they ended up putting me in a lot of leadership roles with science. And then my principal was opening up the school where I’m at now, my former principal. And she, you know, she took me with her. And so her dissertation was in looping, on how following your students, did that really make a difference in test scores? So I was part of her like test study, and I had students that I followed for two years in a row. And she would look at data and that was part of her dissertation. So that really made a difference. So I ended up moving with my students and my first group of middle-school students, I had them for four years.

Eric Cross (04:10):
Oh, wow.

Marilyn Dieppa (04:10):
And that was—those were my children. I, like, boohooed when they left. And I ended up, you know, literally following them from fourth grade all the way to more than four years. Because it was all the way until they left eighth grade.

Eric Cross (04:21):
What did you think of that model of looping with students?

Marilyn Dieppa (04:24):
I think it’s a great model, depending on the kids that you have. I love, you know, the school that I’m at. I’m very blessed, because it’s a great school. It’s really a wonderful school. I’ve had really good relationships with students. They always come back, and they always come back when they wanna tell me that they’re in something in science, right? They’re an engineer or they’re a nurse, or they’re, you know, doctors at this point. So I’ve seen a little bit of everything with my students. And it’s very rewarding.

Eric Cross (04:52):
That’s super-exciting, right? When they come back and they’re either telling you about their college major or what career they’re in. And I like to recruit them at that point and ask them to come talk to my students. Because Google photos gives you unlimited storage, if you have a teacher account, I actually have photos of students from like 10 years ago.

Marilyn Dieppa (05:09):
Oh, wow.

Eric Cross (05:10):
And I’ll put their middle school picture next to their—and then their current picture.

Marilyn Dieppa (05:14):
Oh, that’s awesome. I’ve never done that.

Eric Cross (05:17):
Yeah. You could see, like, they could see the younger version of them.

Marilyn Dieppa (05:19):
And it’s funny because even with the STEM Academy, which I have now, I have the same group of kids for three years. So I’ve had already few groups that have gone by, and those kids come back to me, they come back to our competitions, they help out, you know, they’re very integrated with the robotics. So I’m getting those students back as well. So I’ve maintained that relationship with them as well.

Eric Cross (05:46):
How do you develop your own classroom management style? How did you figure out where your—where you fit and what works for you? What was your process like for that?

Marilyn Dieppa (05:55):
You know what I think, just by teaching, teaching them to respect. And one thing that I’ve developed that—I don’t scream in my classroom; I just talk to the kids. I have very good one-on-one communication with them. I show them respect. I treat them as an equal.

Eric Cross (06:12):
And what grade are you teaching currently?

Marilyn Dieppa (06:14):
Eighth grade. So I do science. I teach high school science. I teach comprehensive, which is like our regular students. I have kids who are inclusion. I have kids that are ESL. So I teach all, you know, dynamics of students. And then I have the academy, which is something separate. But I infuse a lot of physics and of course that they need in order for them to be competitive.

Eric Cross (06:38):
So tell me about that. What is the STEM Academy?

Marilyn Dieppa (06:40):
It is an enrichment program. So it is an advanced enrichment program, because they do follow like the math enrichment. so they have to be really good at math in order for them to be accepted into the program. So, one day we got like a grant, and we got a little robot, the VEX. I don’t know if you’re familiar with VEX. I know it’s big in California. So I was told, “Here, this is for you. See what you can do with it.” So I started with an after-school club, the following year. It kind of hit off. We went to our first little competition. The kids did really well. And then the following year, they told me, “Hey, we need an academy, make it happen.” So it’s not like I had a curriculum. I kind of do my own thing. But we do a lot of different types of things. Our big portion is the VEX, but I also do sec me, we do Future City. We do a whole bunch of competitions within the district. You know, Math Bowl. So I get my kids prepared for anything that really has to do competitive-based. I do that with those students.

Eric Cross (07:38):
What age range or which grade range?

Marilyn Dieppa (07:40):
Sixth to eighth. We have kids who stay the three years and then we have kids that after, you know, sometimes it’s more the parents that want them to be part of the engineering. but sometimes we lose kids after the first year and you know, that’s fine because we wanna really have kids who really wanna be there and are, you know, committed to it. Because there’s a lot of commitments to that program.

Eric Cross (08:01):
Those types of programs, there’s so many like outside-of-the-classroom things that you need to take care of. If you’re going to competitions, and weekends, and all those types of things. Is there a team of teachers that are doing this or is it just you?

Marilyn Dieppa (08:10):
Team of one! .

Eric Cross (08:11):
A team of one! Right? Like, yeah. And how long have you been running this yourself?

Marilyn Dieppa (08:16):
This is probably like my sixth year.

Eric Cross (08:19):
OK.

Marilyn Dieppa (08:20):
So we’ve been very successful. That program is totally inquiry. It’s totally on them. I don’t know how to use a little, you know, remote control. I don’t know how to do anything. I’m there for troubleshoot and to make sure that they’re on task, but they have been very successful because I do put everything on them. And I go, “It’s not my robot. This is your robot.” So they build everything

Eric Cross (08:40):
And that seems to be the theme, especially with, a lot of times, with science teachers. And encouraging them to say, “You don’t have to be the expert in everything.” Teachers tend to be more like risk-taking and innovative when they’re willing to like, not have to be—I don’t have to know everything in order to do something.

Marilyn Dieppa (08:54):
Exactly. So we’ve been very successful. Very proud of my students because you know, we’ve, gone to Worlds twice. We’ve qualified three times in the six years. Actually, I had two teams that went last year.

Eric Cross (09:07):
What is, what is Worlds? That sounds like a big deal.

Marilyn Dieppa (09:10):
It’s a huge thing. And it’s teams from all over the world. You can actually look it up online. It’s—from this year, there were teams, although they said China was not gonna be in there, there were actually some teams from China. There were teams from New Zealand. There were teams from South Africa, the UK, a lot of teams from, from Europe. And then there are teams from here. We are the host country. We’ve been the host country for a while. But it’s amazing. The first time we went, the first team that we were paired up with was a Russian team. So, you know, there was Google Translate and the kids—and it’s, they didn’t need to know the same language because they communicated with the robots. So it was really amazing. They work collaboratively. So it’s not like a battle box. So they work two teams together and whatever, they both get together, they both earn the same points. So it teaches leadership, and there’s so much more to it than just a robot. They have to know how to communicate, because they do get interviewed. They do online challenges. It’s so many things. It’s just—I think it’s one of the best things that our district has really invested in, because these kids are so into it, and they love it so much. For the last year and this year I have the same kids that are in the robotics. I’m also gonna be teaching them physical science. So I have to teach them that separation between what we’re doing in our science classes versus what they’re doing in the class. So there has to be a separation. So they see one side of me in this class where it’s very laid back. It’s very chill. No, no, you, you guys do it. There’s no sitting down. It’s like organized chaos, I call it all the time. But then in the classroom, it has to be a little bit more organized.

Eric Cross (10:53):
Is that something that, as far as getting the parts—like people do, like, GoFundMes and donations and Donors Choose. Can you—

Marilyn Dieppa (11:00):
We get grant money, grant money from the town of Miami Lakes, the town that I work in. So the town actually sponsors us. Without them, we could not do that. It is a very expensive activity to do. If you go online and you look up the prices, you’ll be, “Oh my gosh, goodness, it’s very expensive.” You know? But the smiles on their faces when they come back and they have those little certificates, it means nothing, you know, it’s a little piece of paper. But that, to me, to them, it means the world.

Eric Cross (11:27):
Well, teachers, if you’re looking for ways to get that stuff funded, be fearless on behalf of asking for free things for your kids. Find a local business that somewhat connects to even robotics and say, “Hey, look, I’ve got 50 kids that really want to get after it. And we need X amount of dollars so we can buy those robotics kits. We’ll put your banner up somewhere. We’ll do all these other things. But come support our students. Come to the competition. Donate whatever you can for our students.” And many organizations will say, will say yes. Many just aren’t asked.

Marilyn Dieppa (11:57):
Right. And a lot of towns do have, like, education advisory boards. You wanna reach out to those people. ‘Cause those are the communities where they have money set aside in order to assist things like this.

Eric Cross (12:09):
Do you notice any carryover between the students that do get involved with these extracurriculars into the regular science classroom?

Marilyn Dieppa (12:16):
For sure. They’re more, they’re more disciplined. They tend to care more about the sciences because they see that link in the science. I mean, my kids are talking about gear ratios. They’re talking about, you know, mass accelerations. They had—they infuse all these things. And when they see it in the science class, they’re making that connection, which is really wonderful.

Eric Cross (12:41):
It seems like there’s a high level of engagement because this is an authentic thing. It’s almost, this should be science.

Marilyn Dieppa (12:46):
Yes. And not only that, the writing skills that have to be interpreted because part of the program is that they, they don’t necessarily have to have it, but in order for them to go far and make it to Worlds, they have to have an engineering notebook. So our strength sometimes is not the robot, but the engineering notebook.

Eric Cross (13:02):
his is where the journalism major shines.

Marilyn Dieppa (13:05):
Yes. And I go, “Guys, this is your Ikea manual. You have to explain what you’re doing, what pieces you’re using, what’s going right.” You know, and then they have to interpret and see what didn’t work. How can they fix it? So there’s so much problem-solving. It’s real life, it’s what they’re doing there. More so than sitting and learning rote, you know, vocabulary or whatever the case might be, ’cause they’re actually applying what they’re learning.

Eric Cross (13:31):
Yeah. And that’s, that’s so critical, the communication piece. Because seems like now in society, more than ever, even just being able to communicate something with bad science is convincing to people. Versus if you have great science, but you can’t communicate it, you’re not gonna be able to get it out into the public. It’s so great to see a program that exactly brings together this literacy aspect, in addition to kind of this content and skills aspect of doing the science.

Marilyn Dieppa (13:57):
And that’s what really, you know, since I started, that’s pretty much what I’ve done. My strength, believe it or not, when I was growing up, was not the science. I think I didn’t really have a really good science background. But I remember reflecting and saying, “I don’t want my students to feel like I felt when I was a child.” I wanna make sure that I give them everything, you know, give them the hands-on experience. I think I had one teacher when I was growing up and I still remember him. He was my second-grade teacher and he was just so amazing with the science. And it was just like the only really good experience I had. And I think that always stayed in the back of my mind. And when I started teaching and I go, “I wanna give these kids these experiences.” You know, sometimes I see kids in eighth grade and I go, how sad! They see water boiling and they’re just, like, in a lab room. And they’re just like, in awe, because there’s water boiling. And I go, “You guys haven’t seen water boil before?” And he goes, “No, no, no, not like this!” And I go, oh wow.

Eric Cross (14:58):
Even if it’s simple, everyday phenomena, everyday things that people deal with in a science classroom, or when you’re a teacher in that setting, it’s just—it just hits different, right? Like you, you know, you drop dye into water and watch it diffuse. And it’s like, whoa! Because they’re looking at it through that different lens. And that’s why one of the reasons why—I’m super-biased, but as science teachers, we get to do the coolest stuff.

Marilyn Dieppa (15:21):
Yeah, we do.

Eric Cross (15:22):
We just do. It’s so much fun. And basically anything that happens, that’s cool, like in, innovation and things like that, we can figure out ways to incorporate into our classroom. Now, as a coach and as a mentor, you’ve had multiple student teachers in your classroom. And we have, you know, huge need for new teachers. I teach teachers who are getting their CR, getting their credential. And the landscape of education is, is constantly shifting. You’ve watched it shift over the years. What are your biggest tips that you give to new teachers?

Marilyn Dieppa (15:49):
Well, I just had an intern last semester. I’ve had a few interns where, you know, not only are they doing this, but they’re also learning robotics too. So they’re really getting aspect in how to incorporate that. You don’t have to have everything separate. You can include everything together. But I think, I think it just comes from the foundation where they’re not exposed. Even me, when I went to college, I don’t remember doing so many labs as I should have. And I think it’s just a fear of them trying new things and failing. And I go, you know what? I, sometimes my first class is my guinea pig class, because I always change my labs. I don’t like to do the same thing over and over again. If I see something online, I go, “Oh wow. You know what, I’m gonna try it.” And I go, “Hey guys, this is the first time; we’re gonna do this together.” And it’s really—it’s just for them not to be fearful. And I think especially for science teachers or like even elementary, to give the kids the foundation that they need, they’re afraid. They’re afraid of failing and not trying something new, and say, “Hey, it’s OK. There’s other ways of doing this.” You know? So I always say, “My first class is always my guinea pig class, ’cause that’s the class I’m gonna try this on.” And then, you know, when you have to tweak, reflect, then we do that.

Eric Cross (17:06):
What are some of the things that you’ve seen or encouragements that you give to teachers who are teaching, kind of, in this kind of newer landscape, where as teachers, you become more than just a science teacher. I mean, you’re a mentor. You’re an encourager. Sometimes you’re a counselor for students. And then there, there are things that happen externally that impact teachers as well. It’s a tough job.

Marilyn Dieppa (17:24):
So I always say, you know, when you have a child, we have to be very aware of what’s happening with our children. Especially after these two years of the pandemic. That was kind of crazy. Last year was a really tough year, I think, for most educators that were back in the classroom. But I always tell ’em, you have to be really aware of what’s going on with these kids outside. When you see somebody who’s not doing anything and then you have the parents are there supporting. There’s something going—I mean, there has to be something going on. Kids are not just going to be so, so defiant. You’re gonna have very few that will be like that. But most of them it’s just gotta see and read those kids and see what’s going on, and don’t be afraid to—and I always say, I’m not there to really be your friend, but I’m there to help you. And you gotta tell ’em, you know, if you need to talk, come talk to me. Have an open-door policy with those kids.

Eric Cross (18:16):
What’s been your favorite part of the job? Something you really enjoy about the job? Especially having been teaching for as long as you have.

Marilyn Dieppa (18:23):
I think my favorite thing is their success. Whether they have struggled all the year and they’ve had that one piece of success or they don’t realize what they got out of middle school until they get to high school and they come back to you and they tell you it’s, you know, seeing my kids, whether it’s robotics, whether it’s in the classroom, that they pass a test for the first time, those are my moments of success. And that’s what makes me happy.

Eric Cross (18:52):
So you get those ahas, you get those wins, those turnarounds. And it’s like, “Ah, this keeps me going. This is so good!” But there’s something that I say to myself when I do get challenges in the classroom is teaching seventh grade, I say, “They’re 12. They’re 13. They’ve been on earth for 13 years. And for the first five or six, like, you know, they’re just kind of coming online at that point. And they’re going through all these changes.” And it grounds me in the fact that ’cause sometimes the things that you experience can be really, really challenging kind of interpersonally. And I remind myself, “Well, it’s like—you’re not 28 years old. Like, you’re, 12 and 13, and you need me to not be Mr. Cross, the science teacher. You need me to be, you know, Mr. Cross, the mentor, or Mr. Cross, the coach.” Like you were saying, open door. Keeping that open door, keeping that relationship. Because so much of what we’re doing is like life coaching in addition—and that connects to their success in the classroom. There’s a direct relationship.

Marilyn Dieppa (19:45):
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

Eric Cross (19:46):
Now what gets you back each fall? Because at the end, you know, every school year it’s like, “That was a tough one!” Especially with the last couple years. Right? So what’s been something, what gets you back in the classroom every fall, so that you’re ready for your students?

Marilyn Dieppa (20:02):
I think the support I get at home. I have a husband who is the most supportive person ever. He always tells me, “Your kids are grown up.” You know, my kids are adults now. “Enjoy these kids, what they’re doing. You don’t know how much they need you.” So he does tell me that. He goes, “And don’t complain! You love it!” And also my administration, they back me up. And that’s what I think what keeps you coming back. I love my administration. Whatever I ask for, they don’t tell me no. They tell me I’m crazy, but they don’t tell me no. You know, we have these huge competitions once a year at our school, administration has to be involved ’cause they have to be there, and they go, “We do this because we love you! But you know, you’re crazy!”

Eric Cross (20:48):
It’s interesting, ’cause both of these things, they involve human connection. And one is your support system at home, which is incredibly valuable. Shout out to your husband; I don’t know if he’s around. And then the culture, like, feeling supported. Teachers, you know—and it’s not just in education, but people, I’ve experienced—will work harder, longer, be more committed, when they have that intangible. When they feel like they’re connected to something bigger than them. Or on a team, not in a silo. And one person can really create or break whether that happens. And just like us in the classroom as a teacher, right? Like, “What makes you like this teacher’s class?” “Well, I feel connected. I feel safe. I feel it’s fun. It’s the culture!” I like to end with asking this question and you kind of alluded to an answer earlier, but who is one, or it could be multiple teachers, that you’ve had in your own life as a kid growing up or young person in kindergarten through 12th grade, could even be college, that has inspired you? Or made a difference in your life one way or another? Like, who pops out? I feel like we all have somebody.

Marilyn Dieppa (21:58):
One was my second grade teacher, as I mentioned before. Mr. Fernandez, never forget him. And my other teacher was my high school teacher, Mr. Velazquez. It was in New Jersey as well. And he was the one that really got me into the love of writing. He was my Spanish teacher, actually. He wasn’t even, you know—he was like an elective teacher. But he just made me believe like, “Wow, you’re like a really good writer!” To me, those two gentlemen really stood out. Very fond memories of being in school and really enjoying what I was doing.

Eric Cross (22:33):
There are so many teachers that we all have been impacted by. And many of us now who are teachers, we sit in that same seat. We fill those same shoes. And going back to what you had said earlier, one of the most rewarding things is when those kids come back to you. And I’m thinking about all the work that you’ve done, all the students you’ve poured into, all the competitions you’ve done. The ones that have come back to you are a small fragment of the ones that you’ve impacted.

Marilyn Dieppa (22:59):
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Eric Cross (23:00):
‘Cause we think about our own story, right? Like you’ve gone on and paid dividends for that one teacher in second grade. You know, Mr. Fernandez or Mr. Velasquez like, they went and they just gave you exposure to something or helped you fall in love with something. And you went on this trajectory. And if we could see the timeline of, like, this teacher created Marilyn, and Marilyn went and did this, and then what do all those students do? And that, I don’t know, there’s so many jobs that are gonna be hard work and that are gonna be challenging and stressful. But that is the thing that I think fills me when I listen to your story. I just think about like all the students throughout Florida that you have—you probably will never hear from, but have gone on to do amazing things or become great people who would go back and talk about you and say you were an inspiration for them. Marilyn, thank you for taking the time out to be on the podcast and for not only teaching students, but inspiring and coaching younger teachers and new teachers. It’s so critical. And for being willing to spend so much of your time beyond the classroom to create these opportunities for students to do this awesome, fun, engaging science, and go to Worlds. I wish you a great school year.

Marilyn Dieppa (24:11):
Thank you. You too.

Eric Cross (24:12):
We hope you make it to Worlds again and crush, in a competitive, collaborative type of environment. We’ll be checking out—I’m sure other teachers will check out Vex Robotics. Thanks for being on the podcast.

Marilyn Dieppa (24:23):
Thank you. You too, Eric.

Eric Cross (24:26):
Thanks so much for listening. Now we want to hear more about you. Do you have any educators who inspire you? You can nominate them as a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM@amplify.com. That’s S T E M at amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Marilyn Dieppa says about science

“I think as science teachers, we’re afraid of failing and not trying something new, and I say, ‘Hey, it’s okay!’ You have to tweak, reflect.”

– Marilyn Dieppa

STEM Academy Coach/Teacher, 2018 Miami-Dade County Public Schools (M-DCPS) Middle School Science Teacher of the Year

Meet the guest

Marilyn Dieppa is a long-time educator and STEM Academy coach at Miami Dade County Public Schools. Currently in her 24th year, Marilyn teaches 8th grade science and coaches the STEM Academy at Bob Graham Education Center. She launched the Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) Academy during the 2016-2017 school year, and the teams compete in VEX IQ World’s Competition representing both the district and the state. She has been the middle school department chairperson since 2003, attends the district department meetings and Instructional Capacity-building Academy (ICAD), and trains her science department.

Dieppa holds a bachelor of science in Elementary Education and a master of science in reading education. She is also a Nationally Board-Certified Teacher in Science.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-06: Supporting students with a creative twist: A conversation with Kentucky Science Teacher of the Year, Shad Lacefield

In this episode, Eric sits down with the Kentucky Science Teacher of the Year, Shad Lacefield. Shad shares his experience teaching during the first year of the pandemic, where Shad dressed up in over 100 costumes to create a unique and engaging online learning experience for his students. Shad also explains ways he connects with his students to celebrate student success, as well as large-scale efforts he leads within his school to cultivate the love of learning science content. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Shad Lacefield (00:00):
When you stay relevant, it’s being engaged with your students and figuring out, or what are, what are they liking? And every year it’s gonna be different. And that helps you stay relevant. When you have conversations and you build relationships with your kids,Eric Cross (00:13):
Welcome to science connections. I’m your host. Eric Cross. My guest today is Shad Layfield. Shad is a teacher at garden Springs elementary and a part-time professor at Asbury University in Kentucky during the first year of the pandemic, Mr. Layfield dressed up in over a hundred costumes to create a unique and engaging online learning experience for his students. He also created Vader visits, where he visited students at their homes, dressed as Darth Vader to celebrate their online successes and keep them encouraged. During a challenging time. In this episode, we discuss how creativity impacts engagement, transferring lessons learned from distance teaching back to in-person instruction, and how upper grades can apply the same principles to improve student learning. I hope you enjoy this discussion with shad lays field. So you’ve been in fourth grade for four years, and then you were in second grade and fifth grade. And so like how long have you been teaching for like total?

Shad Lacefield (01:09):
So this is my 15th year teaching.

Eric Cross (01:12):
Really? Yeah. You’ve been in the game for a while.

Shad Lacefield (01:15):
Yeah. Yep. It, it doesn’t, and it’s always surprising to parents too during that, that first like, come in and meet your teacher. And I walk in, I’m like, yeah, I’ve been teaching for 15 years and every time it gets ’em, they’re like no way. And I’m like, yeah,

Eric Cross (01:28):
That’s, that’s a good thing though. That’s a good thing. Right?

Eric Cross (01:31):
You know? So like, well the energy and then, and you’re just how you’re perceived. Like you’re, they’re just, I don’t know. It’s something about work with young people. Like it keeps you young.

Shad Lacefield (01:39):
That’s what it is. Absolutely.

Eric Cross (01:41):
So how did, how, like, what’s your origin story? Like, how did you become a teacher? Like what, what was it? Was it something like you knew second career, like right outta school? Like how did you end up in the classroom?

Shad Lacefield (01:53):
Yeah. No, and I love this question cause I’m a big Marvel and, and superhero. So origin stories are all, I love a good origin story. So I grew up on a 13 acre farm in a little bitty town called Gustin, Kentucky, and very early on, like we were instilled my parents, amazing, amazing parents. But they really instilled like a, a super important work ethic in our lives of like, it’s, it’s all about hard work and it’s important that you’re working hard in whatever it is that you do. And I’m one of six kids as well in my family.

Eric Cross (02:24):
Where are you in the–

Shad Lacefield (02:25):
I’m second to last.

Eric Cross (02:26):
Second to last. Okay. So you’re the second youngest.

Shad Lacefield (02:29):
Yes. Okay. And and so, and so growing up, like with that, like, you know, I worked in tobacco, I worked in hay, you know, we did things being on the farm and stuff like that. And within my family as well, there’s four boys. And so when I decided to go to college I was the first guy in my family to go to college. And the first and only boy that ended up going to college. And so it was like this big deal, like, oh, you know, we got one of our boys gonna go to college. So what is he gonna be? And I was like, well, if I’m gonna put forth the, the time and effort and then the financial strain that it would cause cuz we were not poor at all. My dad worked two jobs to make sure, but I really felt the responsibility of like, if I’m gonna go, I’m gonna work in a profession.

Shad Lacefield (03:09):
That’s gonna make a lot of money. And here I am as a teacher now. So I didn’t go to college to be a teacher. I actually was pre dentistry. I thought, now here’s a profession. You can, a lot of money. You don’t work weekends or holidays, you know, I can still be the doctor thing. And so I’m gonna be pre dentistry. But like all good origin stories. There was a, there was a flip. So in my first year I started working at the most majestic place that you will ever go. It’s called Squire, boon, caverns. It’s a cave in Southern Indiana. And it’s an amazingly beautiful little place. You have to like one lane highway, like road to go back there up and down. Like you, you think you’re never gonna make it. And if it rains too much, the bridge will flood and you actually can’t even get back there.

Shad Lacefield (03:52):
So that’s how we’re talking like way back in the sticks. But once you get back, back there totally worth it. And as part of the job you were a tour I also did grist mill demonstrations and gym mining adventures, or, you know, as they’re gym mining and stuff like that. And within that, I started working with school aged kids and on very large tours and stuff. And my manager at the time, Claudia, I’m still great friends with and we still take our kids back there. Every summer she, to me, you’re really good with kids. Like you’re really good with kids. We have this scout program that’s on the weekends. And then during the summers and you would be teaching kindergarten through eighth grade kids, geology and forestry. What do you think about doing that? And I said, well, right, let’s try that out. And then I got the teaching bug and it hit and I was like, oh my gosh, like I don’t wanna spend my life doing something that is all about money or, or that is like, this is where it’s at. Like, I love this, I enjoy this. I enjoy the response that I get when I’m talking. And kids are excited about learning and getting new information and learning new stuff. And so then I change my major and here I am now, all these years later teaching instead of being a dentist,

Eric Cross (05:04):
Are there, are there days, do you ever have days where you’re like, you know, dentistry, it’s still an option. Like I can, I can go back.

Shad Lacefield (05:12):
Oh, rare, rare occasions. Rarely. Yeah.

Eric Cross (05:16):
Okay. Yeah. All right. All right. Fair enough. I, I, I always joke and say that like we have, you know, sometimes I have my, my alternate job on the hard days, which is for me, it’s working at the gap where I just want to fold clothes and go home at the end of the day, you know, on those really rough days. And you know, it’s never the kids, right. It’s always other things. The kids are like the great part. And then there’s all these other things. And I just wanna work at the gap. I just wanna work at the gap. Fold some clothes. Yes, sir. Yes. Ma’am absolutely. I can find that size for you. And then I just go home cause about their job when they go home at the end of the day, when you work at the gap, at least sorry, gap workers. I’m sure hard of that, but my perception in my mind is that you close up shop and then you’re done. Yeah,

Shad Lacefield (05:52):
Absolutely. Like you said, they can turn it, like it’s a turnoff at the end. Exactly. As teachers we know, like you don’t ever turn it off, it’s always there.

Eric Cross (06:00):
Yeah. So one of the things that I was super excited about when I, when I first heard about you is I went on your website and there’s so many things I feel like I can just talk about your website and just the, the content that you’ve produced. I, I, there’s so many directions I can go. But one, one of the things I want to ask you is, is about that. Now, one of the things that’s on there, and this is coming from a fellow star wars, Fisha who finished Bobba FET and the Mandalorian recently and is Jones in four OB one to come out.

Shad Lacefield (06:33):
Oh, so yes,

Eric Cross (06:35):
I live in Southern California next to Disneyland visited Galaxy’s edge star wars. You have these things called VA Vader visits. And so what do you do in those? And like, where did you get the idea for these Vader visits?

Shad Lacefield (06:50):
So the costumes were bringing the kids into the classroom. But when they left my room because you would, we only had them for a certain amount of time. There was still a lot of extra work that they needed to get done. And what I was seeing was I could get them to come in and they were really engaged during my lesson. But then afterwards, when it came to work completion or getting things done, there was, it was starting to fall off. As you know, we were experiencing, you know, more and more craziness of what’s going on. So then as an incentive, I decided if you have everything turned in, by the end of the day, I’m gonna dress up in my Darth Vader outfit, full costume, the, you know, the, the full helmet, like everything. And I’m gonna show up to your house and we’re gonna hang out and play any game at all that you wanna play.

Shad Lacefield (07:34):
So then it was a way of rewarding. My kids for getting everything turned in. But same time I felt like it would also help me build a relationship with them. That was a very challenging part of online learning. Like, again, I want you to feel like you’re a part of my classroom. I wanna feel like I’m invested in you and wanna learn about you. And it was a commitment because some of those kids put me through the ringer, whether it was we’re gonna do gymnastics on a trampoline. And again, I’m in full costume doing gymnast on the trampoline, or we’re doing soccer drills with their soccer coach at their house playing football games. I mean, all kinds of stuff. I made a Yachty game for a kid that loves Harry Potter. And it was really a big part of getting work turned in because, and it’s the crazy thought they wanted to spend time with me. Like that’s what it was. And so it was like, yeah, absolutely. I’ll keep dressing up. I did over 50 plus Vater visits. It wasn’t just for my homeroom. It was for all of fourth grade. So I went over 50 visits and it was cool to see kids in their home and talk to them and meet their parents. It was a great opportunity for me to engage with parents as well. How is online learning, going, what can I do to support you? Do you guys have any questions and stuff like that? So

Eric Cross (08:39):
This thing of relationships is like leading to work completion, which isn’t, which isn’t always the, the thing that we think to as educators of like how, you know, work completion. A lot of times we think of like structures or you know, certain protocols that you do in class get work completion, but here you are addressing as Darth Vader. And, and you said students were turning in more work because they’re connected to, you saw an increase in, in yeah. Engagement.

Shad Lacefield (09:07):
And absolutely. And, and I remember even saying that to myself, like this is, this is what’s getting them. But it, it was, and as part of the Vader visit as well with the videos we recorded all of them and I said, I’m gonna make you a YouTube star. And so I would, I, I recorded them. I put ’em on my YouTube channel. And so a lot of the videos that are on my website, all those Vader visits are like the kids showing off and playing against the teacher. And I promise you, I didn’t take it easy on any one of those kids. Like when it was like a verse match, I went all out and I told ’em. I was like, if you beat me, you know, it’s gonna be like, you earned it.

Eric Cross (09:38):
What a great way to leverage, just what, what is relevant to our students? Like you used your platform and then now you’re showcasing them on your, you know, your platform or what you were using. And then they’re seeing each other. And I could just see, regardless of the grade level, like just students, like beam from, from getting that kind of positive praise through, through, you know a medium that doesn’t, that tends to be more of a, just content consumption, but you’re kind of watching other folks do stuff, but now it’s about them. Like, and they’re, they’re getting that attention directly. Now I have to ask about the Vader costume. Did you, did you buy it for this event or did you already have that Darth Vader costume in your closet?

Shad Lacefield (10:19):
I had parts of the costume, but not the complete costume. And honestly, the very first Vader visit I had, I had the Vader mask that makes sounds, and like you could talk and it makes you sound like Vader.

Eric Cross (10:29):
My dark saber is on order. Yes. And it keeps getting delayed from best buy. It’s supposed to arrive in April, but I do have dark staple and order that I ordered back in November. So the best to your point, I don’t know who doesn’t have one, I’m waiting for mine though.

Shad Lacefield (10:42):
There you go, come on. Best buy come through for us. So

Eric Cross (10:44):
You, you did all this investment in time and, and you created all this content, but then we went back in person. Were, were you able to bring this back into the classroom or any of the things that you had generated during distance learning back in the classroom? Or are you, are you using some of the things that you learned? Like what, or is it just completely separate and you’re just doing something completely different. Now

Shad Lacefield (11:04):
That’s a great question. So I still try to dress up at least once every week, if not once every other week just to make whatever we’re doing fun, cuz I already have costumes that were connected to the content that I was doing. So had I had made a character called captain Soundwave that will use when I’m teaching my amplify lessons over sound. And so then I, you know, I have that or I would have, you know, specific characters that were designed for certain lessons that I would do. And so I still

Eric Cross (11:32):
Lemme interrupt you real quick. Where did you get these character ideas from? Cause they are super creative. I clicked on one random one. And you have had like a, a knitted like skull cap and like some blue shiny like cloak and I like who is this guy? I think, is that him? Is that captain sound wave? That’s

Shad Lacefield (11:48):
That’s hilarious. That was, that was my attempted Elsa. Oh, that was yeah. Started buying more and more costumes and and making characters and putting costumes together. And so yeah, it just ends up being this thing where you never know when I’m gonna show up in a completely random costume and be like today, we’re getting ready to learn about how sedimentary rocks form. And I dressed in my rock outfit, which is the old school rock with the turtleneck and the gold chain with,

Eric Cross (12:16):
Wait, do you have a Fanny pack too?

Shad Lacefield (12:17):
I have a Fanny pack. Yes you have. Yep. You nailed it. And they’re like, what does this guy

Eric Cross (12:22):
Do? He raise the one eyebrow. Can you do the, the rock eyebrow? Oh yeah, you got this. Oh, people on the podcast. Can’t see. Chad’s got it down. He’s got it down. He’s got the, he’s got the eyebrow going. Okay, so you, so I feel like I can go on a tangent and talk about all your costumes that you have, but the thinking about this. So tons of engagement, younger people now taking like some of the principles that you’ve learned from this, how can, how can upper grades like bring this joy to their classroom? Like middle school students, you know, older kids sometimes, you know, they can, they’re still kids, but you know, they might not be the same thing as fourth graders. Like would you, do you have any ideas of like how teachers and upper grades can kind of take these elements that you’ve done and, and apply them?

Shad Lacefield (13:04):
Absolutely. So some of the things that you had talked about, like with YouTube can also be applied to like TikTok videos and things like that, that kids are, are willing to watch and, and be engaged in. And so those things, I feel like I’ve seen other middle and high school teachers really utilize in their classroom. But honestly, and this is a new initiative that we’ve started in our district. Minecraft has been something that a lot of kids play and are really engaged in and has shown an amazing engagement for all of our kids when it comes to science engagement, particularly. And so with that, so there’s 126 million active Minecraft players right now in the world. And Minecraft is one of the largest selling video games. The average age, cuz they’re always like, oh, Minecraft is for kids who actually the average age is like 24.

Shad Lacefield (13:51):
So a lot of the older kids are playing Minecraft as well with the younger kids. And with that in mind, it was a way when I looked at Minecraft and specifically like Minecraft educational edition came out and it was during COVID and it was free. So if you had a school email or it’s like the, what the go 365 account, you could get it for free and all of our kids got it for free. And so then, then we went from playing Minecraft on the computer as like a fun game to me looking at it and saying like, wait a minute. I feel like when I’m doing energy conversions, we can take Redstone and Minecraft and kids can now show how a simple system using different parts and devices can work and understand even more con creates how energy is converted from one form to another.

Shad Lacefield (14:39):
And so let’s make this a, a, a, an actual activity. Let’s take what I’m teaching in the classroom. And if they get done early as an enrichment piece, because there’s not a ton of science and enrichment activities at times for kids to be able to do, like, what do I do when I’m done, Minecraft ended up being that. And so I could have these elaborate worlds that I would build for them that they could then go and play and be super engaged in and show me way more on this Minecraft world, what they knew than what they were writing on paper sometimes, cuz I, you know, you’d get like a sentences out of them on paper, but then all of a sudden when they would build this elaborate system and you just had them record and talk, it was like, oh my gosh, you understand way more than I was thinking that you did with that last exit slip, an assessment that we did.

Shad Lacefield (15:25):
And so like, this is awesome. So then I went to my district and I actually proposed an idea what if we did tire Minecraft build challenges for the whole district? So our district has 37 elementary schools and I was like, I think this could be something that, you know, as we’re looking for science, curriculum engagement and making kids excited about learning science and stuff again, cuz that was always the hard part. I feel like sometimes with COVID everything kids lost this love of, of being in the classroom and, and, and learning and that it was like, you know, getting them to come back into the classroom and, and finding, learning fun again. It was like this, this started to get ’em excited and like, yeah, I get to play in Minecraft and I’m learning at the same time. And it was working for all kinds of content areas.

Shad Lacefield (16:07):
We’re doing a blast off to, to Mars. We it’s called blast off to us. We’re partnering with CLO of the future. They’re working with SpaceX. Our kids will actually get to send postcards to space and yes, it’s, it’s a super cool thing. And I love my district and all of the office of technology, individuals, Ashley Josh and Kelly for putting this together. And so it asks this question if you could a community in space, what would it be like? And the goal is that kids will write on the back what they want. And then we send this postcard off to space, they stamp it saying it’s been in space and the kids get to have it back and, and be able to use it. But what, what we decided, what we could do with Minecraft is what if they actually built the colony on Mars, like really research put time and effort into reading scientific articles about plants and how plants would grow and, and water and, and structures and apply all of that in a massive build challenge. And then that be, you know what we’re doing? That can be the answer to the question. And so it’s not just a couple sentences on a postcard, but it’s like a week or two week unit that pulls all this scientific content and standards that we’re working with and really allows kids to show so much creativity like on my Twitter I’ve been posting like pictures and stuff like that of some of the students builds. And I’m gonna continue to do that throughout the build challenge.

Eric Cross (17:26):
Now, are you using Minecraft EDU?

Shad Lacefield (17:28):
Yes. That is correct.

Eric Cross (17:29):
I love Minecraft EDU. Like it, it, you talking about it inspires me to, to try to dive back into it. One of the things sometimes I feel limited by is the time that I have and the things that we’re trying to cover. And it’s almost, it almost feels like we’re doing something wrong using a video game to teach, but it’s such a great educational tool. Like you said, you just said that students are able to show what they know in, in a way by creating something that’s different than if they would’ve just written it, but they’re actually creating, and this is one of the things, I guess you kind of hit on this, but I wanted to probe it a little more. Is do you have your students creating content like you do? Cause I kind of heard that they, you were, did you say that they were explaining or doing a video recording or describing it? How are they, how are they, how are they doing that work?

Shad Lacefield (18:17):
Yeah. So what they actually do is they’ll write a script and they will use Screencastify to record and then upload to Flipgrid. And then that way they can actually show their build to all of fourth grade. Since we weren’t allowed to be in the same class, like we were all departmentalized, so then we will have voting challenges. So after you record, you get to see everyone’s videos, you get to like and comment and leave feedback on their builds. So you can see what the other kids created. And then then from those initial videos and voting, we selected a certain of kids that then go on to the district level for our Minecraft build challenge. And then those videos are viewed by administration and other teachers to vote again. And then you end up having grade level winners and then an overall winner, which shout out to my boy in fourth grade, who was our overall winner, Eli, super proud of him.

Shad Lacefield (19:07):
He, he made this really, really space saving system, which was hidden stairs that ran off of Redstone and used motion, energy. And again, in his video, he talks about like how motion energy has changed to electrical energy and then back into motion through the process of how this hidden staircase would be in the wall. And then you’d be able to use this lever to then release that staircase. So you could go up and down but it was just, and again, when you, when you let kids talk about energy conversions and you let them build all of a sudden, you have kids making security systems for banks. Another kid that made a feeding system for kids for animals at the zoo, and it was just like, oh my gosh, I had no idea that this was what you guys could run out and do. When I, when I taught you how energy conversions work, that this is what you could produce and come over, like this is mind blowing. I love it,

Eric Cross (19:56):
What our kids can do and what they can create always kind of blows us away when we give them an opportunity to kind of have that freedom to, to create and take their knowledge and actually do something with it versus channel it into what, show me what, you know, but only do it like this. This is, this is the lane that you have to stay in. How do you get these ideas and, and stay, stay relevant? Like so many of the things like you’re touching, like pop culture, you, you have this hand in education technology, you have you’re, you’re doing video editing. Like where are you drawing from? Cause I’m just thinking like, as a teacher listening to this, that might be newer. And they go to the side like, oh my gosh, this, this guy is doing these so many things like where are you drawing from for inspiration or ideas?

Shad Lacefield (20:39):
I think a lot of it is like you say, when, when you stay relevant, it’s being engaged with your students and figuring out, or what are, what are they liking? And every year it’s gonna be different. And that helps you stay relevant. When you have conversations and you build relationships with your kids to figure out, you know, what’s going on. Because I was not a big Minecraft person. It was the group that came in that really challenged me to do Minecraft because it, it showed up on their Chromebooks one day and all of a sudden it’s like, oh, we can play Minecraft all the time. And I said, no, you can’t play Minecraft until that I’ve had training. And I know what’s going on because I’m super nervous about this new thing. And I wanna make sure you guys aren’t doing something that you’re not supposed to.

Shad Lacefield (21:13):
And like, they hounded me hardcore about you better do you need to do that training, Mr. Lacefield, you need to, we wanna play Minecraft. You better be doing this. Right. And so I was like, all right, man, I’ll, I’ll invest. I’ll, I’ll put some time into this training. And I’m so glad that I did yeah, again, that’s it just like building relationships and having those conversations help you realize like, what’s, what’s what are they interested in? What what’s going on and what would be really funny, even connecting that back to the costumes. What would it be really funny if I showed up in you know, today, princess Jasmine.

Eric Cross (21:42):
Yeah.

Shad Lacefield (21:43):
Been yes. Done that. That’s a great one. I,

Eric Cross (21:45):
I, I just went to the social studies page. I, and I stop laughing while you were talking. Cause I saw the princess Jasmine.

Shad Lacefield (21:52):
Oh yeah. Folks.

Eric Cross (21:53):
I’m telling you, you have to go, you have to go to his videos and see what he’s done. I mean, they’re just, they’re just amazing with my middle school students. They, I, I find myself having to be into things that I’m not normally into. And we have these intergenerational relationships, right? Like I think teachers are unique in this I aspect where I can connect with a 12 year old with what 12 year olds are in no matter where this 12 year old’s from. Cuz I get 12 year old culture. But sometimes when I go back into my adult world, like I forget that like, Hey yeah, haven’t watched a new anime you know, or, or whatever, you know, up

Shad Lacefield (22:26):
That. Yeah. No said too. And a kid will show up wearing a, a shirt to school and I’m like, I wasn’t the world’s that like, I’ve never even seen that before. And you’re like, okay, I’m gonna have to learn what that is cuz that yeah.

Eric Cross (22:38):
And then the next student asks you about, Hey, do you like, do you like these this game? I’m like, yeah, yeah, let me go Google that game real quick. Yeah, I’m totally into it. I’m downloading on my phone real quick. And, and now I’m connected to all kinds of obscure random interests, but to your, to what you said, it like, it helps keep us fresh, right? With I, with ideas, there, there is something that is super practical that you’ve done that you’ve created that I’ve encouraged teachers to do. And I think you really nailed it. On your site, you have these video tutorials. When I look at those, I, I think about how much time you must have saved yourself of not having to explain the same exact thing multiple times. Because you’ve created this virtual help section that allows students to log in amplify earth, check, Flipgrid, whatever. Like do you, when you’re, when you’re teaching students, do you, do you use those in direct students there so they can kind of support themselves? Or is that, what, how did that come to be when you, when you made these, these virtual tools? Because I could just imagine these are time savers for you.

Shad Lacefield (23:49):
Absolutely. Cuz again, like you said, it’s it saves on time. So a lot of when you have kids that are already visual learners as well, and they love watching YouTube and they learn stuff from YouTube, why not? I mean, make the video and then attach it to my Google classroom, keeping everything online. Everyone always has access. And by still having those videos, it allows kids to hear the directions multiple time, but on their time and at their pace. So then it’s posted on the assignment. So even though I probably still will give those directions verbally out loud if a kid forgets and maybe they feel a little nervous about asking in front of their peers, like, oh, how do I do this again? Or, oh, I don’t remember how to do that. That video is linked on there. So that way they can go back and watch it.

Eric Cross (24:28):
It’s almost like a little co-teacher that you have like a little aide that’s like, but it’s you, but it’s like a mini you who’s helping you out. I found that putting sometimes those tutorial videos on ed puzzle, where at different points in time, you can set it up so that at a certain timestamp, it asks a question and you can control it. So they can’t move faster past it until they respond to the question and you have the question be about whatever you just said. And then it, it syncs with Google classroom. So you can import all the grades and you can see how far through the video they got. But that was one other layer that I was able to do. So I can have some accountability and make sure that okay, everybody watched it and they answered all five questions of like, how do you do this?

Shad Lacefield (25:07):
Oh, see, now you’re sharing stuff with me, Eric, because I, I’m not as familiar with ed puzzle. I’ve used like near pod and per deck, but I mean just you saying that I’m like, okay, I need to check out ed puzzle and, and see what, what this is all about. Cause that sounds awesome.

Eric Cross (25:20):
Hey, I shared something with Chad and it it’s useful. I’m I’m feeling good right now. I’m feel I’m feeling good. So as we, as we kind of wind down one, couple questions I wanna ask. One of ’em is you’ve been in teaching for, for 15 years and I, I talk to you like right now and I get this energy and this vibe that’s just so upbeat, so positive. How do you stay fresh, fresh. And how did you stay fresh during a time when things have been so hard, you know, and it, and still is for so many educators, how do you stay encouraged? Like what, what have you done and, and to stay in, in education for, for this long,

Shad Lacefield (26:00):
I think it, it even goes back to like when I made my initial decision to switch my major to education, like I, I really felt like I found so thing that I thoroughly loved and enjoyed, and I always feel like you go through seasons. Like, and I definitely, when, when COVID hit, like you went through a season of where you start to feel again, that pressure like do I really like doing this as much as I thought that I like doing this and am I ready for this next thing? And then I just go back to just the, well, why did I do this to begin with? And, and it gets me, you know, excited to be like, I did it for the kids, like, and it’s about the kids. And I get joy when they’re laughing and smiling. So again, with the videos, it’s like, how can I make ’em laugh and smile because if they’re laughing and smiling and having a good time, I’m gonna get, you know, jacked and ready to start teaching again.

Eric Cross (26:48):
And I just hear that so much in what you’re saying is you’re serving your kids is, is being more than that building the relationship, that connection. And then through all that, the learning happens. The last question I wanna ask you is who’s one teacher that created a memorable experience for you or inspired you. Is it someone that you remember when you were in school or learn experience that just, that stands out to you to this day? Cuz as teachers, we remember thi like our kids remember us and it’s weird to be in that position to think that we’re gonna be that person. So is there anybody or anything that stands out to you that you remember from a, a teacher and experience?

Shad Lacefield (27:27):
Gosh, I have, I have a lot that you know, from my fifth grade science teacher, Mr. Goodman, who we did the ecology meet and the ecology team, and we went to OT Creek park and we competed against other schools about science, connected materials to my physics teacher in high school that let us build boats out of cardboard and take it to the only hotel in our town and the pool. And we had like boat races with the cardboard boats that we did. But really I, I go back to Squire boon and Claudia my manager and I remember not only was, she’s such a, a pivotal like getting me into teaching. But I remember the, the curriculum that we were using at the time that I was. And again, it goes back to what if I was to teach that curriculum, I would not still be a teacher because again, as sometimes you experience with curriculum, it can be boring and not engaging. And I was already putting my own flare on it at SQUI boon during the scout lessons. And I said, what if I just completely rewrote this curriculum? What if I made it really fun and put my own, spin on it? And, and she was like, absolutely, absolutely do that. And I feel like that encouragement as teachers, when we encourage kids to be creative when we encourage kids to, to take risk and to try new things we end up getting such amazing results that we didn’t even expect

Eric Cross (28:45):
Thought I out to Mr. Goodman for the ecology meet the physics teacher for the, the boat races, which are hilarious, by the way, if you’ve ever been able to watch students, did you make ’em at a cardboard?

Shad Lacefield (28:53):
We did. Yep.

Eric Cross (28:54):
Yeah. Those are hilarious to watch. And Claudia for giving the freedom to let you be a educational DJ and remix things to make it fun. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for your inspiration and for sharing your stuff like publicly and letting other people see it and, and get ideas. It’s, I’m sure there’s more people than, you know, and more teachers than, you know, that are looking at that and getting their own ideas and coming up with their own. It might not be star wars, but coming up with their own inspiration, maybe it’s like Harry Potter or Lord of the rings or some like that.

Shad Lacefield (29:26):
Yeah. Whatever. You’re passionate about. Pull that in.

Eric Cross (29:31):
Thanks so much for joining me and Shad today. We want to hear more about you. If you have any great lessons or ways to keep student engagement high, please email us at stem@amplify.com. That’s STEM@amplify.com and make sure to click, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts until next time.

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What Shad Lacefield says about science

“It’s about being engaged with your students and figuring out what are they liking. Every year it’s going to be different…when you have conversations and you build relationships with your kids.”

– Shad Lacefield

4th Grade Science Teacher, District Elementary Science

Meet the guest

Shad Lacefield is a teacher at Garden Springs Elementary and part-time professor at Asbury University in Kentucky. Mr. Lacefield leads professional development in his district, and has been a guest speaker for Eastern Kentucky University, Campbellsville University, and Amplify Education. His topics include classroom managment, integrating techology, and student engagement. He earned his bachelor’s degree in elementary education from Campbellsville University in 2007, and his master’s in science from Southwest Baptist University in 2011. Shad has either taught or coached every grade K-12, and in his 14 years in education he has served as a lead teacher in literacy, math, science, and social studies. He currently coordiantes with the FCPS Office of Instructional Technology to plan Minecraft build challenges for elementary students, and is working on setting up a science field trip that turns a golf course into a STEM lab. During the first year of the pandemic, Shad dressed up in over 100 costumes to create a unique and engaging online learning experience for his students. He also created Vader Visits where he visited students at their homes dressed as Darth Vader to celebrate their online successes, and keep them encouraged during a challenging time. His creative teaching style, and over 50 “Vader Visits” with students, have been featured on WKYT-TV, LEX-18, Spectrum 1 News, and several local and college news publications. Shad lives in Lexington Kentucky with his wife Whitney Lacefield and their three children.

Check out his website, YouTube channel, and Facebook account!

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Check out Shad’s website!

Check out Shad’s website!

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Integrating Code-to-Learn Experiences in Middle School Science Classrooms

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S2-01: How teachers are really feeling this school year

science connections S02-01 Episode Cover

In this special solo episode, Eric Cross starts the season by sharing his personal journey as an educator, and how the difficulties of the last few years have shaped his mindset going into the upcoming school year. Eric also addresses teacher burnout and what inspires him to continue working as a classroom educator. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Eric Cross (00:02):

Welcome to Science Connection, Season Two. As we begin the next season, I thought it would be a good time to share my story. As the host, I get to ask people questions about their journey, but I’ve actually never shared much about my own. So I’ve taken some of my most frequently asked questions to guests and asked them to myself. I hope you enjoy.

Eric Cross (00:23):

So the origin story question, I think really gets to the heart of why a person does what they do, because so much of who we are, especially as adults and teachers, is a result of experiences that we had in our lives when we were kids or in school with other teachers. And my life’s no different. I was born to a 19-year-old single mom. And when you’re a young boy growing up, especially with a young single mom, you often look to older men in different positions as kinda like a surrogate or like a mentor. And you may not even tell them that they are that to you. You kind of keep it close to the chest. And that’s what I did growing up. One of the ones that really stood out to me is, in seventh grade, I went to a middle school here in San Diego that was called Keiller Middle School. And we were a magnet program that specialized in science. And they had this program that brought professors from the local universities and they did this high-level enrichment. They would even take us to the college campus and we would work in these labs as seventh graders. It was amazing. And one of the people there, his name was Dr. Tress, and he was a professor. And Dr. Tress took a liking to me. I reminded him of his son. We were doing this great embryology experiment. We would take purple sea urchins. And we would inject them with potassium chloride, which would cause them to spawn. And we would fertilize these eggs, and then we would run different experiments using them. And these were things that I had never done before. I had always loved science. I’d always loved tinkering and building things. But this was my introduction, really, to high-level biology and to higher levels of education. I didn’t—I didn’t have many figures like that in my life growing up. I mean, I’m a first-generation, you know, high school, college graduate. Many of these are first generations for me. So, this was a new experience. And so Dr. Tress really unlocked a core memory and was one of my first mentors, as far as academics are concerned. And during my seventh-grade year, I entered the science fair and won first place, which was a huge deal. They took us out to Balboa Park. We got to miss school for a week. We got to go to all the museums for free. It was the best. And I think at that point in time, it really solidified something in me that would lay dormant until later on in my adult life. High school, I was really fortunate: the high school I went to was Morse High School, not too far from Keiller, and they had an aeronautics program. So I was able to enroll in that aeronautics program. And I learned how to fly before I learned how to drive. And I had this great instructor named Mr. Klon, who was this like 6′ 4″, 250-pound hippie guy. And he—we would get in the plane and we would have these like philosophical conversations. And through that, especially looking back now as a teacher, I realized that he was making connections with me and investing into who I was as a person. And it was something that I so needed at the time. Because at home I didn’t have that. You know, my safe place, a lot of time, was school. It was my only structure. It was where I knew I would get encouragement. It was where I knew things were reliable and consistent. For a lot of people, and a lot of kids, their home life isn’t like that. School was that for me. So Mr. Klon, I mean, he was this authentic, you know, consistent person in my life and made a huge difference at this time.

Eric Cross (03:23):

After I graduated high school, I left home just to get away from a difficult environment. And I was homeless for a little while and that was a huge moment in my life. And around that time, an aunt found out and she said, “You’re gonna come stay with us.” And this was like this three-year process of me living with them in this, like, functional family that ate dinner together. And they went to the zoo. They had family passes. And they took family photos at Christmastime. This was all weird stuff. Like, I didn’t know—I didn’t know who did these things. It was—I felt like a puppy that like lived in a home that was like…it was a home that was just always kind of like violent or like just really toxic. And then it gets put into a healthy home and doesn’t know how to act. That’s how it felt. And this was around like 19, 20 years old. During that time I started putting myself through school. So I went to community college and I was broke as a joke. And so I couldn’t afford the textbooks while I was going. So I would just go to the bookstore, the Barnes and Noble bookstore in Mira Mesa here in San Diego. And I would stay there all night using the textbooks or using the books there for doing my work. And then I would just put the books back on the shelves. Because let’s just face it. Textbooks are expensive, brother wasn’t trying to pay for all that. So I really had to earn that time. So I was working full-time. I was going to school. And, eventually I got a job in working in finance with a really great friend who mentored me during my younger twenties. And I didn’t wanna be broke and finance made sense.

Eric Cross (04:44):

And so I did that for a little while, until I got to a point in my career where I was watching an episode of The Office, the UK version, the Ricky Gervais version, and a character said, “I’d rather be at the bottom of a ladder I want to climb than halfway up one I don’t.” And I realized, working in finance, that I was halfway up a ladder I never wanted to climb. So I wanted to move into something that, if I was gonna spend eight hours a day or 10 hours a day doing something, I wanted it to be something that actually filled me up inside. And this is how I got into teaching. So I had always been working with young people, specifically 12- to 18-year-olds, like a non-profit or volunteering, mentoring, after-school programs. And I’ve always managed to rationalize my job in the finance world as meaningful because it let me do the real work that fulfilled me. So the real work was working with the kids. But my day job, my, like, Clark Kent-type job, was just, you know, doing the finance thing of like helping people that have a lot of money make more money. Which at the end of my life, I look back and I said, “That’s not what I want my legacy to be.”

Eric Cross (05:43):

And when the finance crash happened in 2008, that’s when I think I started looking back on it and said, “If I’m gonna spend all my time doing something and spending 40 or 60 or 80 hours of my day of my week doing things, I want it to matter. And that’s when I decided to pivot and leave that field and go and get my master’s in education and get my teaching credential, teaching science specifically. Now, one of the questions we get asked a lot and I’ve been asked is, is “How has teaching changed as a result of the pandemic?” And I feel like this could be several podcasts in and of itself, and it’s also regional, because everybody’s experienced it differently, And we’re still experiencing it! That’s the crazy thing! It’s like, it’s not over, we’re still in it. And some places have innovated and pivoted and some places just did what they needed to and they are trying to go back to business as usual. But if anything has happened, the pandemic revealed how much more, how much schools are more than places of just content learning. For many students it’s where they have their only community, their structure, their emotional wellness. They get regular meals, access to tech, and adults that care about them that are outside of their family. The schools are so much more than that. I mean, my school, they were a place, like a hub, that was giving out food every single day during the pandemic to families that would kind of drive by. So for a lot of schools, they became places like that. It also…the pandemic revealed the intensity of the educator workload. I mean, being able to manage your family, having the capacity, to be a content expert, you need to be a counselor, a trauma-care specialist, a coach, an encourager, a tech expert.

Eric Cross (07:23):

I mean, the term mental health is now more common and starting to become prioritized. Now we’re focusing so much more on the whole child. And we know from research that how a child feels about themselves and their safety and their security impacts their ability to learn. So the more comfortable and safe a student feels in the classroom with teachers and with friends, the better they’re gonna be able to learn. And ultimately the higher they’re gonna be able to achieve. You can’t, you can’t have one without the other. In addition, I think less teachers, see themselves teaching into retirement. I think that’s a big thing. I read these articles about teacher shortages and I think the reality is it’s actually teacher exodus. It’s teachers leaving. And that’s been really difficult. I’ve had many friends who’ve left for the private sector. And I get it, especially if you’re one that has—if you’re the first in your family to graduate from college, with a STEM degree, to them taking a teaching position can mean walking away from a salary in the private sector that pays two or three times more.

Eric Cross (08:23):

And in many places around the country, in order to be a teacher and maintain a median standard of living, you need either dual income, multiple jobs, or a multi-generational household. For a lot of people it just doesn’t make sense. And even right now, today, as I’m recording this, I’m reading articles and getting text messages…and I received a text message three days ago from a teacher that said, “My goal this year is to just not resign.” And that’s where a lot of teachers are feeling right now: isolated, challenged, and under-appreciated. And Plato said, “What’s honored in a country is cultivated there.” And I’ve been looking at how teachers are honored and one of the ways is just, like, practical. Like, look, I gotta pay my bills. You know, love the Starbucks gift card. Love the CPK, the gift card. The cards, all those other things…but brother got a car payment. And at the end of the day, if we care about our kids, we need to take care of the people that take care of them. And there’s very practical ways for that to happen. And everybody in different sectors around the country is dealing with that in different ways. I think the pandemic also revealed, now the public can see how our kids don’t receive the same quality of education. And once you’re aware of that, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. So once you see on Zoom or once you see in a meeting, or once you see on the news, that students in different areas, whether it’s the rural South or a suburb in Seattle, are not getting equitable educations, well, ultimately that impacts all of us. Now. It’s not all doom and gloom. Good things have come from, as a result of, the pandemic. Many schools have made progress towards narrowing the technology gap, ’cause they had to! ‘Cause you can’t do Zoom and you can’t do Google Meet and all that stuff with a packet! You gotta get those Chromebooks. And Chromebooks and the internet and access to tech is not a new thing. It’s been out for a long time. The technology gap is not a new thing. It’s been written about extensively, but all of a sudden districts and schools started figuring out how to close that gap. And that’s awesome. We didn’t want a pandemic to be the catalyst for that to happen. But at the end of the day, we started closing it. A lot of schools did an amazing job and districts did an amazing job with deploying the hardware, sending out buses with wifi, putting lessons and videos on USB sticks and dropping them off to parents who live in sparsely populated areas. I mean, there were so many stories that I’ve heard about schools and teachers just doing amazing things, going above and beyond what they needed to on behalf of kids.

Eric Cross (10:51):

I think in addition to that, there’s also been students and families are now having more options to personalize their learning. So we have this in-person model, we have this Zoom or kind of online model, and this hybrid model, and it hasn’t all been perfect, you know, at all. But some families have come out and said, you know what actually doing this hybrid model is better for my son or better for my daughter or better for my student, because they’re able to get the socialization, but also able to focus better at home than they are in a classroom of 36. And that’s legitimate. You know, we talk about personalized learning, but it’s not exactly personalized when everybody has to wake up at the same time, same schedule, go to the same, the same classroom of, you know, up to 40 kids, and do the same lesson. I mean, we have to be honest about our limitations with personalizing learning for students. And when we can provide more options and we give teachers the infrastructure to be able to use different platforms, then we’re able to personalize learning a lot more.

Eric Cross (11:51):

There’s also been an emphasis on the whole-child wellness. I think the spotlight on mental well-being heavily impacts their academic success, but counseling teams, social workers, school psychologists—I think more than ever we’ve realized the value that they bring to the schools. And unfortunately many of them have caseloads of 200 students or more. And they’re seeing students most often that are in crisis. And especially after the pandemic, we’re realizing how valuable they are and how much we need to, one, honor them and give them the support that they need, and also recruit more. Because as we start recognizing how our brains are impacted by the things that we’re dealing with, we’re also gonna see how that’s gonna impact our students’ performance. And we need the specialists in those positions to be able to support our kids. I think, last, I think more innovation and lesson design and how we assess students. And so we’ve been talking about in education just kind of critiquing: how do we assess what a student knows? How do we make what a student actually does at school relevant to real life? I mean, so many times I have students who’ve graduated that are like, “I feel like the things I learned in school, like, they’re not always transferable to real life. It helped me on a test, but like, I don’t know how to do my taxes.” Or “I memorized these facts, but I don’t really apply it in my job.” Or “The facts that I learned I could have actually learned on the fly in my job. I wish I would’ve actually focused on the skills or had an earlier opportunity to get some experience because when I’m trying to apply for a job, <laugh> they ask for experience and I’m 22 years old.”

Eric Cross (13:28):

And so all these things kind of come up. And so I think there’s been some great conversations around “how do we rethink what education looks like?” And there’s different pockets around the country that have been doing that, I think, really well. And I think it’s important for us as teachers to stay connected to those people who are kind of pushing the boundaries and thinking outside the box, because when we get siloed, it’s really easy to get calcified and cynical. I get it. And it impacts me too. But when we’re around those people who have those fresh ideas, who are really pushing the limits, it inspires us. And that’s something I think during the pandemic that I’m grateful that I was intentional about, is staying connected with other teachers. There’s a big question; Why do you continue your work in the classroom and what keeps you motivated? And I was thinking really hard about this question, because depending on <laugh>, depending on my day, I feel like my answer’s gonna be a little bit different. So I’ve had to step back from this 30-foot, thousand-foot perspective and answer the question. And my answer is this: I think because I still feel like I can be effective to influence positive change in my classroom with my students and within the larger education system as a whole. I think if I lost either of those two, then I’d rethink my profession. Look, I’m an innovator. I like asking “why” questions and things like that. And I’m not always the most popular person when you do that. But education is like just a huge ship. It doesn’t pivot on a dime. And asking why questions and pushing for change on behalf of kids isn’t easy, fun, or glamorous, but it’s it’s necessary. And I feel like over the last few years, I’ve been able to see these kind of glimmers of a trajectory change, at least where I am locally. And that’s something that has given me a lot of hope. I’m very fortunate to be connected to educators and people in leadership that are really about making a difference beyond just kind of the cliched platitudes. They actually wanna make systemic change, in a way that’s positive. And that’s been really helpful for me. So as long as I feel like I’m useful in the classroom for students, and as long as I feel like I’m bringing, I think change, on behalf of teachers and students and administrators and our community in a way that moves the ball down the field, that’s what keeps me motivated. And what I like to ask teachers when I close in the podcast is. “What teacher or teachers have inspired you?”

Eric Cross (15:54):

And for me, I think it would start off with the teachers who cared about me when they didn’t have to, in elementary school all the way through college. And there are numerous teachers. My science-teacher community of practice. For the last two years, I’ve been fortunate to spend every month, once a month, meeting with just a core group of science teachers that really care about some of the things that we are impacted by in the classroom. And when the pandemic was going on, we still met regularly. And because we’re not all teaching in the same place, we kind of were able to bring different perspectives to the table. I think the current classroom teachers and former classroom teachers that I have in my community really inspire me. The ones who are dedicated to opening doors for students. The graduate students that I teach at the University of San Diego, they keep me fresh. I love leaving teaching my 12- and 13-year-olds, and then driving down the street to the university and teaching 20somethings who are all about to be in the classroom. They come with new ideas, they’re asking questions, and I get to actually share things that I just did three hours ago. I think that’s one thing that continues to inspire me. And it’s one of the reasons why I love teaching at the University of San Diego. Their energy and enthusiasm is super-refreshing. And then all the teachers that are willing to take risks and fail forward, to try things different, to ask hard questions, to push the envelope. Teaching’s hard. It’s easy to point out the problems in education as a whole. But after we do that, it’s important to figure out the practical ways we can make the changes that we wanna see.

Eric Cross (17:23):

Now, that’s to say that if you have the capacity for it and the resources and the support. Some of us, we don’t. Some of us, we are on an island, and that’s a really, really difficult place to be, especially when you have family and kids to take care of. And you have to make decisions on what’s best for you and for your own students. We do this work on behalf of kids. And it’s one of the most honorable services a person can provide to our community. But one area for growth that I think we have kind of as a society, is teachers spend their lives, daily, on behalf of the future of our country. For other people’s children. They fall asleep at night worrying about other people’s kids. They spend their own money to create opportunities and experiences that students might not otherwise have. And it’s important that we collectively, and I know I’m preaching the choir when I say this, but this is one of my messages, is that we honor them in turn. We create programs that allow them to be able to afford housing. We create opportunities for them to be able to generate wealth. We create ways for them to be able to find rest, to get connection. And then internally we create systems where they can just work on themselves, fill themselves, get trained, and be whole, so they can bring their best self to the kids in front of them. That’s one of my personal platforms. It’s something that I think is vital. We gotta take care of the people that take care of our kids. So there’s a saying that says, “It’s better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.” And it takes one person to blow out a candle, but one candle can light thousands of other candles, without diminishing its own light. And that’s what we have to be. So my encouragement, teachers, as you’re going into this new school year, and you’re thinking about what’s going on, you’re thinking about all the challenges—and they’re there, and they’re real, and trust me, it’s not like some Pollyanna, like, “Hey, just be positive!” mindset and everything’s gonna be great—no, no, no, no, no. It’s not that. But my encouragement…if I can tell you one thing that’s helped me more than anything else, it’s being connected to other people who are candle-lighters. Because there are a lot of places that are gonna blow out the candle. It could be the staff lounge. It could be Twitter, it could be Reddit. It could be Instagram. It could be TikTok. It could be, you know, anybody. Someone next door to you. There’s a lot of folks that are gonna be willing to point out and say, “Look, this is what’s wrong.” But find the helpers. Find the people that are candle-lighters. And stay connected with them. Find that community. I can tell you for me, that’s been the thing that’s been able to help me sojourn through all of this—I couldn’t do this by myself—is being able to share my story with other teachers and knowing that I’m doing this work alongside of other folks who are doing this work, and I can share my story with them and listen to their stories, is something that’s been able to fill my cup. And so I hope I can do the same for you and for other people listening to other people I come in contact with.

Eric Cross (20:08):

Teachers, I wish you a great school year. Hang in there. Be those candle-lighters and bring your best self on behalf of the students. Thanks so much for listening. Now, we wanna hear more about you. If you have any stories you wanna share about the classroom, please email stem@amplify.com. That’s STEM at amplifycom.wpengine.com. And make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Eric Cross says about science

“We do this work on behalf of kids, and it’s one of the most honorable services a person can provide to our community.”

– Eric Cross

K–8 Science teacher, Host of Science Connections: The Podcast

Meet the guest

Eric Cross is a 7th grade science/technology teacher, grade level lead, and digital learning innovator for Albert Einstein Academies, International Baccalaureate schools. He is also an adjunct professor of learning and technology at the University of San Diego and a Google certified innovator. Eric earned a bachelor’s degree from Azusa Pacific University and a Master of Education from the University of San Diego. He had 17 years of experience working with at-risk youth and underserved populations before becoming a middle school teacher. By building relationships with students, colleagues, and the community, he has become an empowered leader in and out of the classroom. Through meaningful learning experiences centered around student agency, STEM has become accessible to students through highly engaging lesson design, thoughtful integration of digital tools, and culturally relevant pedagogy.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Weaving Literacy Instruction Into the Science Classroom to Accelerate Learning

Winter Wrap-Up 01: Problem-solving and facilitating classroom discussions

Promotional graphic for Math Teacher Lounge podcast, episode 1, featuring Fawn Nguyen, Christy Thompson, and Kassia Omohundro Wedekind discussing classroom problem-solving and discussions.

As we prep for an exciting new season of Math Teacher Lounge: The Podcast, hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer are looking back at the amazing speakers and conversations from past episodes and sharing some of their favorites!

First up: A season 2 double feature of the power of problem-solving with Fawn Nguyen and Facilitating Classroom Discussions with authors Christy Hermann Thompson and Kassia Omohundro Wedekind.

Fawn is a specialist on Amplify’s advanced math team and a former math teacher and math coach—so she knows her stuff! You’ll hear about her five criteria for good problem-solving problems, and the power and importance of exposing all students to problem-solving.

Then, we’ll move into Bethany and Dan’s conversation with Christy and Kassia to learn how hands-down conversations allow students to become better listeners and the steps you can take to implement hands-down conversations in your classroom.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer: (00:01)

Hey folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. My name is Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (00:03)

And I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Hello! Happy New Year! Hello, Dan Meyer.

Dan Meyer: (00:09)

HNY, Bethany. HNY to you and to all of the listeners out there in Math Teacher Lounge. HNY is the abbreviation that I use sometimes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (00:18)

Oh, is that what that is? Is that—I wasn’t sure what that was. If on my birthday you send me HBD…no.

Dan Meyer: (00:25)

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (00:25)

No. Unacceptable.

Dan Meyer: (00:27)

I will. No, you want the full thing. To demonstrate my care for your birthday, I gotta spell the whole thing out. I’m just trying to stay relevant. You know, I’m just trying to stay relevant and youthful. So I’m using The Abreevs.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (00:38)

The Brevvies.

Dan Meyer: (00:40)

To the extent of even abbreviating the word “abbreviation.” . So, any New Year’s resolutions you wanna share with the listeners, Bethany? While you think, I’ll just share mine real quick here. This is the year of the perfect Wordle streak for yours truly, Dan Meyer. I’m going the full 365. Watch. Watch me do it, folks. I’m naming it here. Live on air. recorded on air. Perfect Wordle year. What you got for the listeners, Bethany?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (01:10)

Let’s see. It’s raining very hard here in Southern California, and my newest resolution is to embrace nature. My child wants nothing more than to go and splash in all the puddles.

Dan Meyer: (01:22)

Nice.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (01:23)

And be amongst the mud. And what I’m gonna keep telling myself—and so far, so far, I’ve been doing pretty good with this—thrive, child. Splash. Squish. We can dry you off. You will not melt. So I want to keep finding opportunities. Like, for instance, my response is, “It’s pouring rain. Let’s stay under covers and let’s read this book together!” And his response is like, banging on the windows, like, “Please let me go outside.” So I myself have some rain boots. I’m going to go forth and splash with my child. So hopefully you’ll see me doing that a bit more.

Dan Meyer: (02:08)

Love that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (02:09)

Ask me what I’m doing. I’m outside, splashing in nature.

Dan Meyer: (02:12)

I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, but I have felt a bit like parenting is a means for rounding out aspects of my own personality that I have felt are—or habits or hobbies that are lacking. Like, I’ve never been real outdoorsy or into camping, but I don’t want that to limit my own kids’ aspirations or interests. So let’s do the thing that’s not super natural for me, for their own sake. Which is kind of what I’m hearing a little bit from you, which—that sounds exciting.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (02:35)

Do you wanna go camping together? Like, our families?

Dan Meyer: (02:38)

Uhhh. Let’s take this one off the air. I also love something that’s more relevant to a teachers audience that you said, that I think is super interesting, is how there’s ways that we can make the jobs harder for ourselves, that are optional. And what I hear from you is like, “I’m just not gonna freak out. We’re getting wet. We’re getting soggy. And I’m just not gonna freak out.” And I just think that that’s interesting to think about, the things that we take on, you know, that’s optional. Freaking out is optional, sometimes. And there’s other areas, I think, for parenting or for teaching, where it’s like, “Oh, do I really need to choose this particular battle?” And to reconsider that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (03:19)

And in that spirit, our whole Wordle episode that we talked about? Do you remember you talked about how beautiful Wordle mistakes are, and how you keep learning from mistakes? I mean, you obviously want the final correct answer, but just, you know, when you get on a losing streak, Dan, I hope you’ll continue to pat yourself on the back.

Dan Meyer: (03:38)

Well, I will not be taking on a losing streak, or even lose one day. This is what’s gonna happen here. I’m just speaking that and putting it out in the universe.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (03:49)

Speak it!

Dan Meyer: (03:50)

But if it happens, I will be taking a long break from all human interaction. And lamenting, as I do.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (03:59)

Camping. Dan’s off in the woods, weeping.

Dan Meyer: (04:01)

That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Well, we wanna share with you folks—an exciting programming note is that we are currently working very hard on producing a special fifth season of this podcast. You thought the other seasons were special? Let me tell you, this fifth season gives new meaning to the word “special.” And we can’t wait to tell you more about that. But in the meantime, Bethany, you wanna tell ’em what we’re up to in the meantime?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (04:26)

Well, Dan and I went back and we were having a conversation about some of our most favorite conversations, or the conversations that people bring up to us. Like, when we were at the CMC conference, or NCTM, folks, when we talk about the podcast, they’re like, “Oh, I loved this one.” “Oh, I love this one.” And that, to me, I don’t know, that is exciting. And so, while we’re putting together this new season over these next few weeks, we’re gonna feature a few of our favorite conversations from our first four seasons. Dan, four seasons!

Dan Meyer: (04:59)

We’ve been at this for four seasons! And I do want to just emphasize something you said, Bethany: that all of our conversations are our favorite conversations. They’re all our special children. What we just felt like you, the listeners, did not quite learn enough from some of these, and so we really needed you to hear them again to make sure you got everything that you should get out of them. So, let’s tell ’em who’s up first. And who’s up first is a conversation we had about problem-solving with Fawn Nguyen, who’s an advanced math team specialist here at Amplify. Been a former math coach, math teacher. Just really done the work, is what I’d say about Fawn.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (05:38)

If you have been listening to this podcast, you’re like, “Whoa, whoa. Wait, I have not missed an episode. I didn’t hear Fawn’s interview.” That is because we used to be video only, not podcasts. So this conversation with Fawn was from, what, our second season?

Dan Meyer: (05:55)

Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (05:56)

And we were on video. And another thing about it is it was, this is a conversation that, when folks talk about problem-solving, a lot of the responses we’ve gotten are like, “Wait, I’ve never thought of problem-solving this way.” In fact, you’ll hear us say that exact thing . So we really appreciated the time with Fawn. And yeah.

Dan Meyer: (06:17)

Enjoy it, folks. Especially enjoy Fawn’s—I think a four-part?—definition of problem-solving, a word that’s often kind of mushily defined. And Fawn really goes into, I think, precision and depth on it. So hope you folks enjoy it.

Dan Meyer: (06:35)

Give a wave, Fawn, to the camera. Would you? Cool. Fawn has been a teacher for a very long time. She is someone who could have left the classroom at any point and taken any number of jobs in the math-teaching universe. But I’ve always admired that Fawn has taught kids for a very long time, and that has given her, in my view, just a lot of clarity on what is important to her about students. I’ve seen her not get upset or obsessed with certain kinds of small niche issues that a lot of us, like, they get a lot of us down in the classroom, sometimes. And she’s maintained a laser focus on among many other things, problem-solving as a virtue in mathematics classrooms. So, please welcome Fawn to our show. Fawn, thanks so much for being here.

Fawn Nguyen: (07:18)

Hey, thank you so much. Thank you. I am so excited and honored that you guys invited me for this, Bethany and Dan.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (07:24)

Thank you for being here.

Fawn Nguyen: (07:26)

I love you, Bethany. Dan, I can tolerate, but I love you.

Dan Meyer: (07:30)

I really worked myself up there on that complimentary opening for you, and that’s how you get me back, here? OK. Problem-solving is fully on the consciousness of math teachers. Every math teacher knows that they need to say, like, “Yeah, oh, problem-solving. Yes. Love it. Do it. I dig it.” But even so, I feel like it’s become kind of a buzzword. Like, it’s not always obvious what that means…or am I doing problem-solving, really? So we’re curious: As someone who is a problem-solving expert, who is asked all over the world to talk about problem-solving: How do I know if I’m doing problem-solving in my classroom?

Fawn Nguyen: (08:12)

This is not my definition of it, but—nor am I an expert, by the way, Dan, thank you! but I try really, really hard and work on it!—my definition—or it’s not my definition, but I like it because it’s short and honest—is “problem-solving is what we do when we don’t know what to do.” And so—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (08:32)

Ooh!

Fawn Nguyen: (08:32)

—with that mind-frame, I’m hoping teachers think more about what they task. Because I think it gets mislabeled a lot, as to what is problem-solving. If the kids already know what to do, there’s a solution path. Then it’s not problem-solving.

Dan Meyer: (08:48)

Yeah. So what are examples then? An example of, like, I might call something problem-solving, but it it fails that particular definition that you just proposed there. Very short, very honest definition.

Fawn Nguyen: (08:59)

Just, it needs to have constraint and contradiction to what the kids think naturally. It should come as a surprise. There’s an element of surprise in it. There’s tension.

Dan Meyer: (09:11)

Maybe if there’s harder numbers or, you know, decimals or fractions in the same kind of procedure…I can feel myself thinking, “Yeah, this is hard. This is problem-solving. Problem-solving equals hard. But we already know what to do.”

Fawn Nguyen: (09:27)

Or just word problems. That’s the most common thing. As soon as it just has words attached to the math, it becomes problem-solving. But that’s just coding it to me. That’s just coding it with words, wrapping it around. It doesn’t mean anything until we read through and see if there’s true problem-solving in it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (09:45)

Like, what’s the moment that it becomes problem-solving? In the way that you envision it?

Fawn Nguyen: (09:53)

Well, I think there’s the bigger problem-solving of really bringing a task…I wanna call it left field. It just—we rarely ever, if ever, see it in the regular coursework, but it can also be problem-solving if we just take what we expect the children to do at the end of the unit, how about we front-load that? To me, that’s also problem-solving. And I’m trying to encourage teachers to do that last problem first. The task writers put more thought—not that they don’t do the rest of it!—but you know, this is a special one, because they label it “challenge,” or “enrichment,” or “are you ready for more?” I’ve seen those. And so it is this really special problem. And I would love for us to think about “do that first.” Because my biggest fear is that because it comes at the end, that not all the children are involved. And so that to me is the saddest part. Because we might not get to it, right? In mathematics, we always think, “OK, well, let’s do these problems and then we don’t have time for the rest.” But I think that’s your richest task right there, is at the very end. So why don’t we front-load it, start it, and it’s OK—of course it’s OK!—that we don’t all get it. But the exposure to all students is so important. Talk about, you know, equity. Talk about that, everybody gets the same thing. If everyone dug into that first one with everybody’s collaboration, and we get to share that, and then we leave it, because “Yeah, OK, now we learn more of the other stuff, right? That hopefully support. And then we can go back. And now everybody had a chance to go get into it, and then we can come back to it as, as many problems, we need to go back to it.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (11:37)

And that feels so powerful. Because it feels like—as a teacher, I’m thinking it would also inform my work, how I approach the unit, and how I approach the next steps. Right? Like, what kind of work would we be doing if I let it, if I allow it, to change the way that I approach the unit.

Dan Meyer: (11:58)

Yeah. What you’re describing is so powerful, and really asks a lot of the task designers as well, I think. There are problem-solving tasks that really require, like, abstract knowledge of the way formulas and variables fit together. And what I love about what Amplify is doing with their problem-solving, what you’re helping them do, is that they start with a true low floor that can draw in every student. And they might get stuck at different places; that’s fine. But everyone has a way in. That’s exciting.

Fawn Nguyen: (12:24)

It’s a big deal for me to have this opportunity and this trust, to integrate problem-solving into the curriculum, make it intentional. It’s difficult to implement. It is, to be honest. Because for me, what is a good task? This makes one of my four criteria: One is, it is non-routine. It is simply stated. Simply stated—that’s like your low floor. And then has multiple solutions. And the fourth: This makes it. Because that the teacher enjoys solving it. And so you have to enjoy solving it to bring it. Because so that way I can say to my kids, “This is my gift.” It really is, Because, you know, it has so much fun and joy. And I appreciate the struggle. And I wanna illustrate an example. For example, let’s say Dan and I are classmates. And I know that Dan gets A’s on his tests and the lowest score he ever got was an 89%. I, on the other hand, just sitting right next to him, I average D. I have a D average on everything. While Bethany, our amazing and wonderful teacher, brings in a problem. And when she brings it in, she says, “I worked on this problem. I found this problem; I worked on it; and I struggled with it. And it was amazing. I enjoyed it so much, I’m sharing it with you.” And all of a sudden it’s like, “OK!” And I”m sitting there, right? My teacher loves this problem so much; she’s bringing it in to share with us. And now, all of a sudden, it’s not, you know…and I know she only gives us non-routine. When she talks about problem-solving, it’s non-routine. So it’s not directly tied to the textbook that I’ve been struggling with. So it gives me a chance, it gives me a chance to contribute. To think differently. And now, suddenly I look forward to working with Dan, because in this space, in this problem-solving space, Dan is no longer Mr. Know-It-All. And so that’s what I mean by—I am saying this a hundred times, and I will not stop saying it—problem-solving levels the playing field. Our world is filled with unsolved problems. Are you kidding me? Right? We look around us, we have so many things that are not solvable, or people are working on it, and yet in mathematics, what happens? The bell rings; we start; and we solve everything during that time, and we leave. And that’s…yeah. No! No! We need to wrestle with problems.

Dan Meyer: (15:04)

And that was our conversation with Fawn Nguyen, which we first released way back in November, 2021. You folks can follow Fawn on Twitter at Fawn P Nguyen. Um, that’s @ F A W N P N G U Y E N.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (15:18)

So our episode today is a double feature. We are featuring another conversation that we loved from Season Two. This is a conversation with Christy Hermann Thompson and Kassia Omohundro Wedekind. They’re authors of the book, “Hands Down, Speak Out: Listening and Talking Across Literacy and Math.” And I don’t know if you remember, but not only did we have a conversation with them, but we did a whole book study on Facebook, a Facebook Live book study, over the course of several months. And it was one of my most favorite things. And then they did a webinar at the end. So our conversation with them on the podcast for me felt like such a beautiful dive into their book. And you know, I’ve said it before, you think you have something down in the classroom, you’re like, “Oh, hand-raising, I’ve got that down.” You think you have it down, but then somebody says, “OK, but have you ever considered thiiiis?” You know, and it just—

Dan Meyer: (16:17)

NOT that??

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (16:18)

, Not that? Something totally different? And I loved talking with them. They’re a lot of fun. And I loved the book.

Dan Meyer: (16:23)

Wonderful conversation, great book. Very provocative ideas. Yeah. As someone who’s like, “OK, classroom management, I gotta get the hand-raising going…”. In the classroom before we talked, they offered a really potent challenge to some really standard classroom management ideas. Yeah. Loved it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (16:40)

And this conversation also offers some really practical tips for facilitating student conversations. So we think you’ll enjoy it. Here’s our conversation with Christy and Kassia.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (16:53)

So today we are talking about “Hands Down, Speak Out: Listening and Talking Across Literacy and Math, K—5.” And we have the authors here, Kassia Omohundro Wedekind and Christy Hermann Thompson. Before we begin, let’s define what a hands-down conversation is. A hands-down conversation is just another way to structure discourse in your classroom. So in a typical classroom, you might see students raising their hand and waiting on a teacher to call on them before they share their ideas or engage in discussion. But in a hands-down conversation, it’s students’ ideas and voices that are taking the lead, and teachers are stepping back and focusing on listening and facilitating. Hello! Welcome to the Lounge.

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind: (17:44)

Thank you. We’re excited to be here. We’re fans of Season One. So we’re ready to go.

Dan Meyer: (17:50)

I was a secondary teacher but I still found so much to love about the book. I think facilitating conversations is just generally challenging, and perhaps even more so in math, where answers feel so tightly dialed-in, in lots of ways. But I loved it. I would love for you to just explain to our audience, what is a hands-down conversation and how does that contrast with what might be standard practice for some people? For some classes?

Christy Hermann Thompson: (18:13)

We just started using the term hands-down conversation because we wanted to differentiate the fact that there are different times to have different types of dialogue in the math classroom, in the literacy classroom. And we use this as one of our tools. Right? It’s not that every day, all day long, we’re very against hand-raising and should never see that again. We find that having this as one of our tools will be where we make really clear to the students that this is a moment where we’re turning it over to you to negotiate the space and make the decisions about when your voice comes in and who speaks next. You know, carry on kind of like that dinner table or that playground or, you know, whatever is your natural habitat for talk. And bringing that into the classroom and then hoping that it also someday transfers back out of the classroom back into the real world.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (19:09)

For the teachers who feel like that’s terrifying to have students just start speaking, and speaking without any sort of control or my little equity sticks, my little popsicle sticks, or my popcorn, or whatever other thing they’re using, what would you say is the first step?

Christy Hermann Thompson: (19:25)

So I think recognizing and naming that fear is part of it. And then saying to yourself, “What’s the worst that could happen here?” You know, I think the worst that could happen is that nobody talks and it’s totally silent. Or on the other hand, everybody talks at the same time. And both of those things will happen! And so what? It’s gonna be messy. And if you just acknowledge that it’s gonna look messy, and that’s part of growing; that every child as they learn—and every adult—is messy as they grow.

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind: (19:59)

And we have to see what kinds of things will happen in a hands-down conversation. Like there’s no prerequisite. You just start and then you see what happens. And those are the signs that tell you, “What can help this community grow as talkers and listeners? If everyone’s talking at the same time, and they’re kind of pushing each other over with their words by saying, “I have something to add!” “I have something to add!” or something like that, that’s a common thing that sometimes happens at the beginning. Then you know that the next step is to do some work about how to hold your thoughts back, how to add, wait for a space in the conversation to talk. And those are all things we need people to know out in the world.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (20:41)

So can you give an example of a micro-lesson that…well, first, what do you define as a micro-lesson? And then, what’s an example of one that maybe somebody who wants to dip their toe into the world of hands-down conversations that they could try?

Christy Hermann Thompson: (20:56)

The reason we call them micro-lessons is because we wanted to differentiate from the term mini lesson, which is out there and tends to describe about 10 or 15 minutes that might take place at the beginning of a work period of time. And this is much smaller than that. We usually follow a pretty predictable structure of naming. Here’s this thing that’s so helpful when we’re having conversations, and we love to especially be able to name something that a student had done: “Kaylee did this yesterday and it really helped us.” So what we might call that is, “And then here’s how Kaylee and other people might do that. They might do something like this.” And, you know, having a little anchor chart, so there’s a visual reminder of that skill. “So when we’re having a conversation today, you could try…”. And that’s basically a micro-lesson, just in a nutshell.

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind: (21:51)

When I was doing these hands-down conversations and I had more space for myself to listen as a teacher, I’m like, “Well, look at those kids, like, slumped onto the ground, like, pulling the carpet apart, but they’re having this amazing conversation!” And so I learned that listening is a lot broader. So in this lesson that I’m thinking about, we just talk with kids about what are lots of different ways that listening can look like. Sometimes with younger kids, I’ll take pictures of them listening in different ways and we’ll notice things about them together. And then we invite them to talk with their Turn and Talk partner about like, “How do you like to be listened to?” Or “Tell me about how you listen.” And just kind of broaden that. And really, I like to think that like the micro-lessons are for the kids, but also I’m saying those things to say them for myself. Like, “Remember, you don’t have to insist that kids are staring each other down in the eyes all the time. Like, “It’s OK when they’re doing other things. There’s other ways of listening.” So I think I’ve learned as much from the micro-lessons each time I do them as the kids that I’m trying to help grow as listeners and talkers, as well.

Dan Meyer: (23:00)

You folks have a lot of really eloquent ideals you express, around democratic classrooms and engagement. But you also have just some very tangible, practical…even down to, like, how a teacher positions their body in space and the way they use their eyes to connect. I think it would be really helpful for teachers to hear that it’s not just they’re signing on to a manifesto of sorts, but there’s ways they can act their way into the beliefs that you both expressed here.

Christy Hermann Thompson: (23:26)

When I’m starting hands-down conversation work, if I put myself a little bit outside of the circle and look down, and give myself a clipboard, it, it helps me bite my tongue and it helps me give better wait time and see what the kids are doing before I have that tendency to jump in and teach and do lots of teacher-y things.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (23:48)

Kassia and Christy, thank you so much for joining us. We are so excited to have this conversation and to share your work. This is exciting. And I feel like this conversation is just the beginning of a deeper dive into this book.

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind: (24:01)

Thanks for having us.

Christy Hermann Thompson: (24:02)

Thank you.

Dan Meyer: (24:03)

Thank you both.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (24:06)

Thanks so much for listening to our conversations with Fawn Nguyen and Christy Hermann Thompson and Kassia Omohundro Wedekind, both of which were released in 2021, part of our second season. And, you know, we hoped you enjoyed listening to it for a first, second, maybe third, fourth time.

Dan Meyer: (24:24)

Let’s be real. There’s some real fans out there.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (24:26)

We loved it then. We love it now!

Dan Meyer: (24:28)

Yep, yep, yep. Please keep in touch with the show by following us on Twitter at MTL Show, and join our Facebook group, the Math Teacher Lounge community. We’d love to hear from you there. And please stay tuned for more info on what we’re cooking up here in the Math Teacher Lounge. Thank you folks for listening. Take care, Bethany.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson: (24:47)

Bye now.

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What Fawn Nguyen says about math teaching

“It’s a big deal for me to have the opportunity and this trust to integrate problem-solving into the curriculum.”

– Fawn Nguyen

Specialist, Math Advance Team, Amplify Desmos Math

Meet the guests

Fawn Nguyen

Fawn began her work with Amplify in 2022 as a Math Advance Team Specialist. She was a math coach for a K-8 school district for three years, and a middle school teacher for 30 years before that. Fawn has also received a number of accolades as an educator.

Christy Thompson

Christy Thompson is a Literacy Coach in Fairfax County Public Schools in Virginia. She has spent her teaching and coaching career particularly focused on listening to and learning from the talk of our youngest students.

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind spent many wonderful years as a classroom teacher and math coach in Fairfax County Public Schools in Virginia and now splits her time between being an independent math coach and an editor at Stenhouse Publishers. Her favorite days are spent in classrooms learning from the many ways children talk, listen and negotiate meaning together.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S5-05. Math technology & hacks for math anxiety: research-based tips for caregivers

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We’ve been very lucky to have so many prolific and brilliant researchers on this season of Math Teacher Lounge, and our next guest is no exception.

Listen as we sit down with Dr. Marjorie Schaeffer to discuss what causes math anxiety, math hacks, and how the right math technology can make an incredible impact in children and caregivers coping with math anxiety.

Listen today and don’t forget to grab your MTL study guide to track your learning and make the most of this episode!

Download Transcript

Marjorie Schaeffer (00:00):

I think the most important thing we know from literature right now is that high math-anxious parents, when they interact with their children, their children learn less math over the course of the school year.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:12):

Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:15):

And I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:16):

We’re onto Episode 5, Dan, of our series on math anxiety. And I wanna say it feels so lovely to imagine all of these people out there doing work to help combat math anxiety. I dunno, it just makes me feel excited about the possibilities. This work is out there; it’s happening! Kids and teachers and caregivers are being impacted by these conversations. Not just — I mean, I don’t just mean the conversations we’re having on Math Teacher Lounge, but I mean, that these researchers are doing. Like, yes, we can change this!

Dan Meyer (00:53):

This is great. Yeah. We have people who are extremely smart, who have dedicated their professional lives to studying math anxiety and resolving it. And each of them that we’ve chatted with — they share lots of ideas in common, but I’ve loved how they each have their own different flavor or take or area of emphasis on a problem that hits everybody everywhere. It’s in your home, with kids and caregivers. It’s in schools. It’s in our places of teacher preparation and professional learning. Every place is a place where we can focus on resolving issues of math anxiety. It’s exciting.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:26):

Yeah, I feel like … if there could be a course in — we all know that our teacher prep programs, in MOST teacher prep programs, there’s not nearly enough math methods or time to cover <laugh> — it’s like ready, set, go! And depending on who your mentor teacher is or what your math methods course … I mean, it can totally shape the way that you are prepared or really not prepared for going out there to teach math! And so I love that we’re having these conversations.

Dan Meyer (01:55):

What I love about today’s conversation is, one, it’s got a little bit of a technology flavor, so there’s that. But I also love, it’s got one of my favorite features about change, which is that it focuses on change to action, change to routine, rather than change to belief. Rather than saying like, “OK, everybody! Everybody stop thinking bad beliefs about math and transmitting them to your kids!” Instead, it says, “What we’ll do is just, hey, we’ll set that aside for a second and we’re gonna do a certain thing every day and watch as those actions make your beliefs change.” That to me is extremely cool. And I think it has a higher likelihood of success than just, like, me telling parents, “Hey, stop thinking these thoughts!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:37):

“Ready, set, stop being anxious!”

Dan Meyer (02:39):

Exactly. Exactly. So it’s an exciting conversation we’re gonna have here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:43):

Right. So it’s not a, you know, “wave the wand and all of a sudden, you’re not anxious about math anymore.” But these incremental changes, these incremental conversations, this validation, can really, really impact change. I’m with you on it, Dan. I hear what you’re saying.

Dan Meyer (03:01):

To help us talk through all of these ideas and more, we’re joined by Dr. Marjorie Schaeffer, Assistant Professor of Psychology at St. Mary’s College in Indiana.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:10):

Enjoy. <Jaunty music> So, yes, Dan, we are so excited to welcome Marjorie Schaeffer. She’s Assistant Professor of Psychology at St. Mary’s College. Dr. Schaeffer, we’re so excited you’re here. Hello!

Marjorie Schaeffer (03:28):

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Dan Meyer (03:29):

Yeah. We are super-lucky to have had so many prolific and brilliant researchers about math anxiety on our show. You’ll be no exception. And every time, we love to find out about how you came to study math anxiety, which winds up being a really interesting glimpse into your backstory bio. So tell us, what is the route by which you came toward studying math anxiety?

Marjorie Schaeffer (03:51):

Oh, I love that question. I’m really interested in how the attitudes and beliefs of parents and teachers influence children, especially around math. And I actually became interested in this idea in college, when no Child Left Behind was actually first starting to be implemented in schools with high-stakes standardized testing. So much so that I actually did my thesis on this thinking about, “Do children understand the importance of high-stakes testing? Do they have anxiety around that idea?” And so that was really my first foray into the anxiety literature. And that was kind of the entry point into math anxiety for me.

Dan Meyer (04:28):

So you started by studying a very high-stakes assessment, like our students connecting with this. And the assessment is once per year. And classroom instruction is every day. So how did you move from the assessments to the everyday instruction?

Marjorie Schaeffer (04:44):

That’s a great question. So, after college, I actually taught kindergarten. And so from that, I saw the day-to-day impact of instruction and the day-to-day impact of children’s individual attitudes and beliefs. And so I really became interested in thinking about, “How do we understand why some children are really successful from the instruction happening in classrooms and why other children need a little bit more support?” And so math anxiety was one way for me to really think about the individual differences I saw in my kindergarten classroom.

Dan Meyer (05:18):

It feels like you headed … you went farther upstream, is what it feels like. Where assessment … there’s like some kind of anxiety around assessment, let’s say. And then you ventured farther up the stream to classroom instruction and then still farther into kids’ homes. It seems like your research invokes a lot of curiosity about the sources of a kind of amorphous, flowing phenomenon called math anxiety. And I’d love to hear a bit about what you know about how caregivers transfer, transmit — whatever the word is — math anxiety to their kids.

Marjorie Schaeffer (05:55):

For parents … we think that the attitudes and beliefs of parents matter. And we see that for lots of areas, not just math anxiety. But I think math anxiety, we see that really clearly. And so, we can think about it both in terms of what kind of input parents provide. So, how do families talk about math with their children? What kind of support do they provide around homework? And those are ones that I think are a little obvious. But we can also think about the offhanded comments that parents say to children when they’re talking about math generally. Right? So, we see lots of memes going around, talking about how hard math homework is. And so, I think when parents say offhanded comments like, “I’m not a math person,” or “We’re just bad at math,” that communicates values to children. I think the most important thing we know from literature right now is that high math-anxious parents, when they interact with their children, their children learn less math over the course of the school year. And this specific mechanism by which that happens is still an area for a lot of research. And so some people think it’s about input. So maybe if I’m math anxious, I’m avoiding math. And so, when I have an option to read a picture book that has math content, I focus on the colors instead. And so, my child is actually getting less math than other children. We can also think it’s about these messages that are provided. So, when I talk about math, I send the message to my child, it’s not for them, and therefore the child wants to engage in it less. And some of my work looks at things like expectations and values. So, thinking about, “Do math-anxious families actually value math less than other families unintentionally?” And so, we have some support for this idea that they expect less of their children. And so maybe when they struggle, they respond in different ways than a family who’s lower in math anxiety.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:53):

This is so fascinating to me. I also was a kindergarten teacher. And I remember a mom who just … she had such like palpable math anxiety. And during one of our conversations, she was talking about these homework sessions with her daughter. And I may have mentioned this on the podcast before. But she was talking about how every night they would sit together and they would do all this math. They’d do, like, extra math together. And it always ended in tears. And despite her math anxiety, she didn’t want her daughter to experience the math anxiety that she did. So she was trying to pile it on, so her daughter was more proficient and comfortable. And instead, it was perpetuating this anxiety about it. And so, it’s a phenomenon then, right? Even if a parent is saying, like you said, maybe completely unwilling, this mother was actually trying to do the opposite. She was trying to help, you know, imbue the love and comfort with math. Right?

Marjorie Schaeffer (09:01):

Absolutely. This is why I think in my research, it’s really important that we find low-stakes, low-stress ways for high math-anxious families to do math. They absolutely can support their children in doing math. But they need a little support. We want it to be a fun, low-stakes environment, right? So maybe that’s the connection back to high-stakes testing, that I want children to have fun math experiences.

Dan Meyer (09:28):

Yeah. This is challenging, because it feels like the more caregivers know about math anxiety, and its pernicious effects on students, and how easily transmitted it is, one could become quite anxious about math anxiety. And, you know, no one makes great decisions when they’re anxious. So if I’m recalling our various episodes we’ve done, we’ve heard from people say, “Well, you need to validate students’ math anxiety. This is not something to just ignore or brush past. But also, not validate it in a way that says, you know, ‘This is OK and generational and inevitable.’” Which presents parents with a very thin path to follow, it seems like. So I love what you’re saying about how we gotta just de-stress the whole process.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:11):

You’re avoiding the whole, “I wasn’t a math person either” kind of thing. <laugh>

Dan Meyer (10:15):

Right, right, right. Yeah. So I’d love to know more. We’re excited about the technology that you have studied and helped develop, presumably, called Bedtime Math, anapp for caregivers. And I’d love to know more about what that is and what it offers parents who know enough about math to know that they don’t want to transmit math anxiety to their children, but also want to support. So what does that offer them?

Marjorie Schaeffer (10:39):

So Bedtime Math is an app. It’s freely available on iTunes or the Apple Store or Google Play. And what it’s designed to do is to provide a nightly topical passage. So one of my favorites is the one about Groundhogs Day. And so it talks a little bit about the history of Groundhogs Day, and then it asks math-related follow-up questions. So starting at a preschool level, going through late fifth grade. And it’s really meant for parents to pick the one that meets their children where they are. And so the preschool-level question asks children to pretend to be a groundhog and walk to the left and walk to the right. So a skill that families might not think about as being math, but we actually think that IS part of understanding math. Understanding left and right directionality. And then the next question can ask questions like, “If it took the groundhog three seconds to climb out of the hole, and then two more seconds to see its shadow, how much time did it take all together?” So a simple addition problem, but it’s phrased in a fun way. And so the hope is that for high math-anxious families, these interactions are fun and playful. They don’t look like fights over homework. They’re just conversations that families can have around topics that are naturally interesting to children. And our hope is that when families have lots of these positive low-stakes interactions, they actually can see that we can talk about math in unstressful ways. In lots of ways, right? We can also do this at the grocery store. We can also do this while we’re cooking in the kitchen. It doesn’t just have to be fights over homework.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:14):

And I actually have the Bedtime Math — one of the Bedtime Math books. And I was so excited to find out that there’s an app. And I think one of the things that I loved about the book is that these are invitations, right? They’re exactly that. Low pressure <laugh>, and they’re invitations to have a conversation. And if we were just to tell parents, “Oh, just count!” or, “Hey, just count wherever you go!” You know? No. It’s, in a way, I think, like you said, it’s retraining the parents on what math could look like. Like, “Oh, I didn’t even think we could just kind of have this conversation and we’re actually doing math together.”

Marjorie Schaeffer (12:55):

Yes, absolutely. I absolutely agree. We want it to be fun and playful and not stressful. And we want it to also be things that are meaningful to children’s lives. So these are topics children are interested in. It’s not that we are using flashcards or making children practice math facts over and over again. These are things children should wanna do that can naturally fit into a child’s routine. So almost all families read books before bed, and what we hope is that math can also be a part of the nighttime routine.

Dan Meyer (13:27):

There’s something really subtle here going on that I just wanna name and ask a question about. First of all, it’s cool that you started with studying high-stakes stuff and now you are developing low-stakes stuff. And I’m really curious what makes a thing low-stakes? Like, a few things I’m hearing from you is that there’s, like … I have a small child that I read literature to on a nightly basis. And I feel very anxiety-free doing that. And it’s almost as though, because each of the — tasks is the wrong word for this, but experiences — involve some reading, it puts me, the parent, in a mode that is comfortable and familiar to me. I’m curious: Are there other, as you design, what, one per day for a year? All these different experiences. What are some of the principles that you lean on that help make a thing low-stakes for kids and for parents?

Marjorie Schaeffer (14:17):

Yeah, that’s a great question. So one thing we wanted to be really intentional about is that our app doesn’t look like a lot of traditional apps. There isn’t noises that go off. You don’t enter an answer. And so one of the things that we thought made it low-stakes is that while there is a right or wrong answer — there is a correct answer — we aren’t giving children upsetting feedback. Instead, what we wanna encourage families to do is, if you struggle to remember how many seconds it took the groundhog to come out of the hole, you can work through that with a parent. So it doesn’t feel like you’re getting negative feedback; you’re being told you’re bad at math; you did it wrong. Instead, you’re just getting natural support moving forward. And so that’s one thing we wanted to be really intentional about, was that it wasn’t going to be a negative experience for children. And we are trying to build on all of the positive interactions families are having around nightly book reading. So many ways this can look very similar. You get to read another story that’s topical and hopefully interesting. And then do these little questions together. And so for a lot of families, their children don’t actually really look at the question. It almost feels like the parent is just asking them on their own. Like, they just came up with it. They just wanted to know what would happen to the groundhog. If there were three more groundhogs? How many groundhogs would we have all together? Not like it’s gonna be like homework or other parts.

Dan Meyer (15:38):

So my understanding is that there isn’t a blank into which people type a number in, press “submit” for evaluation, receive the red X, the green check. That’s a key part of the design here.

Marjorie Schaeffer (15:50):

Yes, absolutely. And for research purposes, we would’ve loved to know what families were saying. But we think it’s really important that it’s fun, interactive, that families are working together to get to the right answer, that it’s not a test for children.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:03):

In your research, when you were — maybe you could walk us through the study a little bit. But I’m also curious if you heard from parents that it was carrying over beyond the bedtime routine. Because I would imagine, if I am building these skills and reading these questions and learning that I could talk to my kid like this about math in a fun way, that’s gonna happen then, like you said, when I’m in the grocery store. Or when I’m waiting in line for at the bank. Or whatever, you know? People go into banks now still, right?

Marjorie Schaeffer (16:35):

Yeah, absolutely. So in our study, we recruited almost 600 families and we randomly assigned them. So they had an equal chance of getting both our math app and what we call our control app. And that’s really just a math app without the math. We think of it as a reading control app. And that’s because we wanna make sure that families are having a similar experience, that it’s not just that having high-quality, fun interactions with your child is actually impacting children’s math achievement. And so what we then did is followed those children over the course of early elementary school. And so we worked with them in schools in the fall and spring of first, second, and third grade, really to look at their math learning. And so what we find is that children of high math-anxious adults, when they have the reading app, so what we think of as what’s happening in the real world, we see that really classic gap between children of high math-anxious adults and children of low math-anxious adults. So if you have a high math-anxious parent, you’re learning about three months less math over the course of first grade. But for children who receive this math app, we see this gap as closed. Those children look no different than a low math-anxious parent. And so that’s leading us to think that we’ve helped families talk about math in fundamentally different ways. We did a little bit of just talking to families to see a little bit about what might be going on. And a lot of families do report exactly what you’re describing, where they say this did help them talk about math in different ways they were doing it other times.

Dan Meyer (18:10):

That’s a really extraordinary study design. I don’t know … I love that you folks gave the control group not nothing. Like it’s possible that just parents and kids bonding over a thing regularly would be enough to provoke some kind of academic gain. But you gave the control group a thing that had them interacting socially, bonding, and still this large common gap between high-anxious and low-anxious parents, their kids shrunk together. Is that what I’m gathering here?

Marjorie Schaeffer (18:41):

Yeah, absolutely. So we’re basically seeing we can no longer, when we look at children’s data, say that parents’ math anxiety explains individual differences. So these children look really similar. They’re learning more than children who has a high math-anxious parent and just got our reading control app.

Dan Meyer (19:01):

just diving into the study a little bit more here, what is the time commitment? Or, did you guide parents to say, “All right, we’re gonna do this do this delightful story about a badger for an hour”? Or did people do it for five minutes? And what was the time commitment, roughly, for people?

Marjorie Schaeffer (19:17):

So we tell families to do it however they see fit. Because it is an app, we are able to get some sense of how long, and we are talking about three to six minutes for many families. For a lot of families, they’re reading a paragraph, the paragraph and a half, and then answering one or two questions. They’re not going through every possible question. They’re just doing a little bit, really meeting their kids where they are.

Dan Meyer (19:39):

Roughly how many times per week was that?

Marjorie Schaeffer (19:41):

So we asked families to do it as much as it fit. But we’re seeing about two and a half on average in the first year. And so families are fitting it in a couple of nights a week. It’s not every night.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:52):

So what it sounds like you’re saying is what really was powerful about this app is that it was the space and time and prompts between the caregiver and the child, that chance to really sit down and have some of these meaningful and positive math interactions. How did it shift those relationships?

Marjorie Schaeffer (20:12):

So one of the things I think that makes the app effective is the changing of expectations. After a year, families are really using the app a lot less. And I think that’s OK, that they have found other ways to incorporate math into their lives. And we find that we don’t see an impact on their math anxiety, that they aren’t becoming less math anxious from this experience. Which I think makes sense, because they have had a lifetime of math anxiety. But we do see a change in parents’ expectations and value of math. So they expect their children will be better at math, and they also report that math is more important in their children’s lives. And so I think that’s an important part of it, which is, we can change these values for families, even if we aren’t able to change the math anxiety of the adults in children’s lives.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:01):

I want to for a second before — because I’m loving this idea of the app, and I’m excited to find out more ways to cultivate these conversations in my home and also share this with other folks. Because even folks who don’t even maybe realize they have math anxiety … like you said, so often it’s unconscious. So often we’re putting these little snippets into our everyday conversation, like, “Oh yeah, I’m not a math person.” And we don’t even realize how much is impacting our kiddos and ourselves, right? So I am really curious: What do you think … in your research, what were some other takeaways that you feel like are really strategies that we can think about for combating math anxiety in general?

Marjorie Schaeffer (21:47):

So I’m particularly interested in thinking about how math-anxious adults can help tone down their anxiety so that they can have high-quality interactions with their children, that they interact with. And so one of the big takeaways for my research, I think, is that math-anxious families can help their children with math. They just need support. And so I think there are lots of ways for that support to look like. One, I think it can be an app, but I also think reading a little bit about math can be really helpful. So it’s not new. So the first time you aren’t thinking about some of these ideas is as your child has their homework open in front of you. And so you can process your own feelings separately before you have to do it with a child. I also think reminding parents that math is everywhere and that math is actually lots of things that we all love to do. Math isn’t just calculus. Not that calculus isn’t wonderful. But that math is measuring, math is counting ducks at the park. Math is talking about how many times did I go down this slide. And talking about math in this way, I think reminds families that they are great at that. That even if maybe they’ve had bad math experiences before, they can do math. Especially the way their preschool or early childhood, early elementary school student needs them to. And I think that can then set the foundation for being really successful later.

Dan Meyer (23:13):

So is your research then, your subsequent studies, your line of inquiry, is moving more towards how to support parents, then? Is that what I’m hearing?

Marjorie Schaeffer (23:22):

Yeah. So I’m really interested in both understanding how the math anxiety of parents and teachers influences children. And so math anxiety is really common and we know that it’s particularly common in early elementary school teachers. And so it’s very likely that children are interacting with a highly math-anxious adult. And so I’m really interested in thinking about how we can support those individuals in doing it. And so both, I think, things like Bedtime Math, which provide fun, unscripted ways to do that, but I’m also interested in the teacher equivalent. So, thinking about whether having things like a math coach can help teachers have more positive experiences with math. So if you see someone else play math games with your students, can that help you do it as well?

Dan Meyer (24:09):

It makes me wonder a lot about an app for teachers or an app for parents, one that’s not designed to be co-consumed with kids and their parents. But what that would look like … yeah, that’s really interesting.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:21):

If we have a parent who, let’s say they have a third grader, fourth grader, fifth grader, or a middle schooler, right? Outside of early education. And they say, “OK, but what do I do? I’m with my kiddo; I don’t remember this math.” And they’re realizing that their anxiety may be influencing their kiddos’ disposition of mathematics, Or maybe they’re just in the midst of the battle <laugh>. What would you say to those folks, especially if it’s math that maybe they’re not comfortable with?

Marjorie Schaeffer (24:56):

One, I think we should like tone down the stress, right? Remind ourselves that it’s homework and homework feels really high-stakes, but these other outcomes are really high-stakes too, right? And so I’m really interested in the idea that can we help parents feel more comfortable about math by watching their own children teach it to them. So what’s a concept that the fourth grader actually feels really good about? And can they remind their parent how to do it? Can, together, they problem-solve the math homework? And so it’s not just on the parent to give the child the right answer. We know that’s a recipe for communicating some negative things about math. But instead, help the parent-child pair figure it out together. So what are some resources we can do? Can we look it up on the internet together? Can we write an email to the teacher together? Can we think about what are other problems that maybe we know how to do, and therefore we can use that same model here? So I want parents to feel like they are not solely responsible for it. That they can help figure it out with their child together. And so it’s a fun interaction.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:02):

I love that. I love that.

Dan Meyer (26:03):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s wonderful. Yeah. A conviction that I have, and I think it’s true, is that any math that we’re learning at middle school, the attraction can be dialed down to a degree that a very small child, or a parent who has a very small child’s understanding of math, can appreciate. So instead of calculation, estimation. Instead of proof, just make a claim about something. And it makes me wonder about a companion to the work that’s happening in schools that parents feel inadequate to support, that students might not want to teach their parents. But which they could both, on a daily basis, say, “Here’s a way we can engage in this at a level that is comfortable to both of us.” Just dreaming out loud here. No question asked. No response needed. I just love your work. And made me wonder about that. Can you let me know your thoughts about technology? It is very rare that we have someone on the call who is an academic and very well-versed in research, but who also is published not just in in papers and textbooks, but also in digital media. It’s consumed by lots of people. So I am trusting that you have opinions about how math looks in technology. And I wonder if you’d offer some thoughts about how it goes, right? How it goes wrong from your own eyes.

Marjorie Schaeffer (27:14):

OK. That’s a great question. I think that we need more research. I first wanna say that I think that technology has really exploded in the last few years. How children have access to technology and screen times has really changed. And what we need is high-quality research happening. That said, I think that all of the things we know from child-development research still apply to technology. And so we know that children learn best when they are engaging in interactions with their parents. And so when families can use technology together, or at least can talk about what’s happening, it can be really effective. I also think technology, especially math apps, are best at teaching concrete skills with very clear answers. So I think practicing math facts is a great use of technology. So I love that Sushi math app where you solve multiplication problems and then get to quickly pull the sushi off the cart, right? But for higher-level questions, where we’re thinking about word problems or where what we’re helping to teach students is complex thinking, apps have a harder time doing that. Because students can often figure out the answer without engaging in the thinking that we are hoping that they’ll learn. And so I think technology absolutely has a piece. I think technology is helpful for parents. I think the logistics of helping parents live their lives is a good reason to use technology. But I think we need to be conscious of what it’s replacing. And so I think a world in which we think fourth graders can learn math only from apps is not realistic. But absolutely apps can be a great supplement to what’s already happening in the classroom.

Dan Meyer (28:56):

Yeah, that’s super-helpful. We have done a lot of work in digital curriculum here at Amplify, and often face the question on a daily basis, “Should this math be digital or on paper? Should we have the students stand up and talk or type something?” And those decisions are way too crucial and way more sensitive than a lot of the app-based education gives credit to. So appreciate your perspective there.

Marjorie Schaeffer (29:22):

OK. And I don’t think there’s one answer, or one answer for all classrooms. I think it’s like always a balancing act. I do think that one of the reasons our work is successful is because the parent-child interaction. And we want parents to learn from these experiences. And I think the same thing is true for for teachers.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:41):

Dr. Schaeffer, thank you so much for being with us today and for sharing about your research, and again, for inviting us to reconsider ways that we can develop a more positive relationship with math. And that parent or caregiver or teacher relationship with a child, we’re seeing just how incredibly impactful that is. And I really appreciate your work and your voice on this. Thank you so much for your time.

Dan Meyer (30:07):

Thank you.

Marjorie Schaeffer (30:08):

Thank you for having me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:12):

Thank you again, Dr. Schaeffer, and thank you all for listening to our conversation. You can check out the show notes for more on Dr. Schaeffer’s work and to see a link to the app that we shared about Bedtime Math.

Dan Meyer (30:25):

Please keep in touch with us on Facebook at Math Teacher Lounge Community, and on Twitter at MTLShow.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:32):

We would love to hear … you’ve been listening to this series; we’re dipping our toe into all these aspects of math anxiety. Is there something that you’re still wondering about? Something you wanna share about your own story with math anxiety?

Dan Meyer (30:43):

And if you haven’t already, if this is your first exposure to the Math Teacher Lounge podcast, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get your fine podcast products. And if you like what you’re hearing, please rate us! Leave us a review. You’ll help more listeners find the show.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:01):

And let a friend know. But you know, it’s, it’s nice and cozy here in the Lounge, right? There’s no pressure. We’re hanging out. It’s all about learning. We’re learning together. We’re glad you’re here and we want others in your community to join us in the Lounge as well. You can find more information on all of Amplify’s shows at our podcast hub. Go to amplifycom.wpengine.com/hub. Next time on Math Teacher Lounge, we’re gonna be chatting about where we are today that we weren’t a few months ago in this topic.

Dan Meyer (31:31):

We’ll be chatting about this last series about math anxiety, and trading our favorite insights and observations from the run of the season.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:41):

I just love this series, Dan. And thanks, all, for listening. We really appreciate having you in the Lounge.

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What Marjorie Schaeffer says about math

“We want it to be a fun, low-stakes environment, especially in high-stakes scenarios like testing. We want children to have fun math experiences.”

– Marjorie Schaeffer

Assistant Professor of Psychology at Saint Mary’s College

Meet the guest

Marjorie Schaeffer is an assistant professor of psychological sciences at Saint Mary’s College. She received her Ph.D in developmental psychology from the University of Chicago. Marjorie is interested in the role parents and teachers play in the development of children’s math attitudes and performance. She is specifically interested in the impact of expectations and anxiety and on children’s academic performance. Her work has been published in outlets including Science, Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, and Developmental Science.

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S1-10: Empowering the science educator: Jessica Kesler

Promotional graphic for "science connections podcast" season 1, episode 10, featuring a smiling black woman named Jessica Kesler, with educational icons like a globe and magnifying glass around her.

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Jessica Kesler (00:01):

One student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can implement it in their classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (00:19):

Welcome to science connections. I’m your host. Eric Cross. My guest today is Jessica Kessler. Jessica’s director of professional learning at TGR foundation, which is a tiger woods charity. There she creates and leads free stem, professional learning opportunities for educators across the country. Prior to working at TGR, Jessica worked as an elementary, middle and high school science teacher while fulfilling several leadership roles, including science department, chair and principal intern. In this episode, Jessica shares some of her classroom experiences while working in Philadelphia, where she was in classrooms, where her students needed her to be more than just her content. She also addresses how designing professional learning with empathy for teachers in mind creates better experiences for teachers. And now please enjoy my discussion with Jessica Kessler. So let’s, let’s start off with St. Joseph’s chemistry college to the classroom, like your origin story. What led you to ultimately get into the classroom and being successful, even just looking at, at your kinda like your resume or your CV of all of the things that you’ve done. You definitely weren’t idle, but start off with chem. Yeah. Like where did that passion come from?

Jessica Kesler (01:27):

Yeah. So when I was younger, I just had this burning passion to help people. Right. And when you’re young and you think about helping people, you think about doctors, doctors help people. Right. So I had this idea that I wanna be a surgeon. I wanna be a black surgeon. I wanna be a young girl, female Charles drew, and I just wanna go out there and do it. And so my mom is actually an alum of St Joe’s. So I spent a lot of time on campus cuz as she was getting her mini master’s degrees I will visit campus with her often. And so when I applied, I had the scholarships, had everything and I went in ready to be bio ready to be a surgeon. I took my first bio class and I was like, yes, let’s talk about the human body. And let’s get into dissections and sections. And they were like, okay, so a plant so has this. And I was like, Ooh <laugh> I was like, this is not what I was expecting at all. It just felt so detached from the trajectory that I wanted to take. And it just did not feed that passion of helping people in the immediate moment.

Eric Cross (02:31):

Did it, did it feel too abstract?

Jessica Kesler (02:33):

It felt abstract. It felt boring. Okay. And one thing I didn’t want was to be like stuck, bored. Like if I’m not being stimulated in a good way, mm-hmm <affirmative> then it’s not gonna last, but I love science. So I switched over to chemistry cuz I’m like this chemistry is exciting. I’m mixing things together. I’m producing new things. I’m doing extractions. I’m being introduced to machinery that I haven’t seen before. I’m loving it. I’m doing a math. The math is awesome. And so I switched over to chem and I started doing research in the summers and things like that. My research was around water quality in Philadelphia and looking at different natural water sources and comparing them and all those great things. But I was in a lab and the lab had no windows and I was stuck talking to this atomic absorption specter every day.

Jessica Kesler (03:24):

And I hit that, that wall again, where it was like, is this the rest of my life? Like talking to these machines and not having windows and not being able to interact with people. What is this? This can’t be life. And so I was seeking out some new opportunities that said, Hey, I need more money. First of all. So I’m like, I call the financial aid office like every week, like, Hey, what’s out today. What new scholarships do you have? I’m applying for everything. Like it was my goal to not have to pay for much of my education. And so I was talking to them and they’re like, Hey, you’re in science. There’s this awesome opportunity called a noise scholarship where they’ll pay for your last year and your master’s degree. If you go into education mm-hmm <affirmative> and I sat on it and I was like, this makes so much sense to me.

Jessica Kesler (04:12):

I was like, I’ve been literally tutoring my peers and teaching in churches and all this other kind of stuff. My whole life. It makes so much sense. How come nobody ever said this before? <Laugh> and so I applied for the noise scholarship, got in and started, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> doing practicums in the classroom as I went through my last year as a chemistry major and my first year for my masters and it just felt so right. And I was like, I can do this. And of course there were a lot of people who told me, no, Josh, you can’t do that. Like these kids will eat you alive. And I’m like I don’t think so. <Laugh> but, but that’s give it a go. And I stepped into the classroom and it, it just felt like, felt like it was always meant to be there.

Eric Cross (04:57):

So you were able to, you were able to make that connection between, I mean, if you’re, if you’re studying chemistry and bio and going into stem, I mean, there’s, there’s an aptitude there, but then you realize that this there’s a road that you could take that leads you into a room with no windows. And you’re just hanging out with machines all day

Jessica Kesler (05:14):

And I’m not helping people. Right. Right. And that was, my passion was like, I’m not helping people sitting in this room. I need to be a person that’s outside telling people about what happens in the room. Right. And how they can get involved and like what’s going on in here. Like that’s, that’s where I can be useful.

Eric Cross (05:28):

When you were, you were in Philly when you were teaching, what were you teaching when you were there?

Jessica Kesler (05:33):

So I started off teaching eighth grade science first job in north Philadelphia, teaching eighth grade science and just a, a funding tangent that first day a student called me a B

Eric Cross (05:44):

Trial by fire

Jessica Kesler (05:45):

Trial by fire called me out in front of like the whole floor. We were outside doing line drills and just was like, I hate you miss Kusa your B. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. This is where you stand your ground and you take it or you, you bail out <laugh> and you go back into the lab mm-hmm <affirmative>. And of course at the end of that, that traumatic experience between all the kids, like two months later, she wanted me to adopt her. So like everything comes full circles. Right.

Eric Cross (06:10):

That’s how it is. Right.

Jessica Kesler (06:11):

But I started teaching eighth grade science. There’s not a lot of science teachers at that level who actually have a science background. Most of them have elementary school background. So I’m the only scientist walking into the science classroom and saying, this is how science actually works. And so I ended up taking a lot of onus of science while I was there. Ended up building out the K through eight curriculum for science. I ended up doing like a science strategic plan to submit to the district. I ended up leading out our first couple stem nights and like really leading the stem department and kind of our science department. And this was as like a second, third year teacher <laugh> know, but nobody else had the science mm-hmm, <affirmative> the way that I had the science and the education. So it really opened up a door for me to be able to, to run full steam with all those things.

Eric Cross (07:04):

So MI was it primarily middle school during those, those years that you were there?

Jessica Kesler (07:07):

So there, I started with middle school and I did that purposefully because I was still young and I wanted there to be a good age gap between me and the students. And then I moved up to high school and taught high school chemistry, also taught a couple other different subjects while I was at that school. But primarily high school chemistry. Then I actually took a big leap down and I said, okay. I was going for my second master’s degree in educational leadership. And I was going for my principal cert. And I said, if I’m gonna be a principal of a school, then I need to understand all the levels of education and how they operate, cuz they operate really differently. So I said, I started in middle school, went to high school. I don’t have elementary school experience. In fact, I’d spent a day in a kindergarten classroom and I was like this never again, but I was like, I need to go back down there and I need to figure out how this system works because you know, I never know where I’m gonna land as far as principalship.

Jessica Kesler (08:01):

So I went and taught fourth grade.

Eric Cross (08:03):

How was that experience?

Jessica Kesler (08:05):

So imagine me going from teaching high school, seniors and juniors Uhhuh and like they’re self-sufficient and you know, they’re independent, they’re driving to school and all these things. And then I immediately drop down and go into fourth grade where these kids are crying every five seconds. They still have like a lot of bodily fluids, like there’s noses running and things. And like <laugh>, I was like a fish outta water. I was like, what is this? What’s going on down here. But those kids pour out so much love. And they, you, you become another parent to them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> your high schoolers know who their parents are. They kind of are finding their place in society, but the little ones, they only know big people as parents, small people as equal. So they see you as another parent. So it taught me a lot about, you know, patience and breaking information down, even smaller. I had to figure out new and inventive ways to teach science and bring it down so far that they would be able to grab onto it and achieve it. And it was a challenge, but at the end it paid off, we were running, we were hitting like great markers for all of our PSSA goals that year. I mean, we were really knocking it out the park

Eric Cross (09:17):

And this backstory leads into how we met and adds to the picture as to why I really want to have you on, because your involvement with TGR, which is where I want to go next for the folks listening. I bet a lot of them have no idea what it’s about, just like I did. And now me learning about TGR foundation and meeting you I would love to make sure that everyone knows about it and what they offer.

Jessica Kesler (09:39):

Absolutely. So TGR foundation, a tiger woods charity was founded by tiger woods and his father with a mission to really introduced them education to students in low income minority populations and prepare them for success in their world and their future careers moving forward. And so was founded in 1996 and went through several changes in iterations since 1996. But eventually opened up its first learning lab, which is in Anaheim, California. And through the learning lab, they opened up these satellite sites. So they basically partner with schools to provide after school education and robotics and wearable electronics and things like that. And they would partner with schools to teach these courses after school, they would pay the teacher, pay for the materials and stuff like that to provide more opportunity for students in different areas. And so that’s how I was introduced to the foundation because while I was teaching high school my good friend and previous manager, Jason Porter shout out to JP Jason Porter used to lead the tiger woods foundation when it was the tiger woods foundation.

Jessica Kesler (10:52):

He used to lead the afterschool program. And when I joined that high school, he said, Jess, you got all this great content, knowledge, all this great enthusiasm, and we wanna get more women into this robotics. We wanna get them engaged in this process of, of stuff. And you will be a great role model to start bringing in more of our female students. And I was like, great, sign me up. And that’s where I started working with the TGR foundation, right after school programs, getting my students into robotics, competitions and clubs, doing different challenges and design challenges. And then after some time, a few years, they actually needed someone to come to the DC area and support the development of professional learning and partnerships here in DC, as they were continuing to expand. And really it came out of the idea that tiger gave this big mission to the organization that he wanted to reach millions of kids.

Jessica Kesler (11:48):

He said millions and everybody said, what millions, what M <laugh>. So the foundation was like, okay, well we can’t reach millions by just tackling one student at a time, right? Not one student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million people or students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, mm-hmm <affirmative>, then those teachers not only spend most of their day with these students and learn the basics of their skills with these students. But each one of those teachers has 30 to 150 200 students that they see every day. And that’s how we multiply this effect. So we train the teachers on all the stem competencies and the pedagogical tools and strategies to implement the stem that we’re doing in our learning labs. And then they can implement it in our classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (12:44):

And so D divide the effort, multiply the effects. Exactly. And then when I was exposed to it, this was over zoom. Now, how long has it been going on? Has it always been virtualized or did you do the, were you all doing this before? We all went online

Jessica Kesler (12:57):

Before the pandemic man, the glory days, right before pandemic, it feels like I’m talking about prehistoric times, right? Like back in the dinosaur, like era, like, I don’t know, pre we actually did these workshops in a person. So we would invite people to come to DC, invite teachers in Philadelphia to do a Philly one. We were in New Mexico. We were in Florida. We were, I mean, we were everywhere and this would be a extremely hands on engaging workshops. So not only do we focus on this is the theory and the philosophy behind the pedagogy, but we would also focus on like creating a student experience for the teacher, having the teacher flip into student mode and put on that student hat and actually go through sample lessons, model lessons and activities as the student so that they can feel it. So you can feel if, if you feel confused, your students are gonna feel confused.

Jessica Kesler (13:52):

If you feel like this is challenging, you, your students are gonna feel the challenge. If you are, don’t understand the instructions, your students will understand the instructions. So it gives us a different perspective and it puts us in their shoes. So we can better empathize with them and create more responsive lesson planning. So we flipped them into that student role for that purpose. When COVID hit, we went virtual, but virtual allowed us to reach teachers that we probably would’ve never hit. So it was kind of that blessing and disguise, right? It was like we didn’t keep people as long cuz obviously virtually you’re not, you don’t wanna stare at a screen for eight hours. So we cut it down. We revised it a little bit, but we kept the hands on philosophy and feel of it going by, you know, using materials that they could find at home really modeling what education could look like.

Jessica Kesler (14:41):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> if you used your Z zoom room to capacity, or if you had these materials and resources or rethought your lesson plans and structures. So we went virtual and not only were we able to hit so many more thirst that first year thirsty educators ready to get, dive into it, ready for some comradery with fellow educators. But we were also able to expand our international network. We were able to get so many international educators through our global work that it was, it was beyond what we had when we were in person. So it really had this skyrocketing effect.

Eric Cross (15:20):

There’s professional learning pathways and then virtual stem studio. Is that right for professional development for like teachers who are listening, are those the two kind of main prongs?

Jessica Kesler (15:30):

Yeah. So a stem studio is basically just one, right? And a pathway is a collection. So we now offer four stem studios, four separate stem studios. The first one is on inquiry mindset. You attended that one area. And it’s really about for teachers who are changing their perspective on what the classroom should look and feel like, especially administrators too. It’s about developing that inquiry mindset. So you understand and you feel, and you practice and you learn the tools that are necessary for inquiry to happen in your classroom. We never promote overhauling your classroom. We’re just saying, add a little bit here and there and see how it impacts your students. The second one is on making inquiry, visible, making inquiry visible is all about making students thinking visible in the moment. What are tools and strategies that you use so that students can illuminate their thinking for themselves, but for you and their peers as well and how we benefit from that.

Jessica Kesler (16:28):

So not only do the students get to see their own thinking as they progress and you get to tell the story of how their minds have evolved, but you, as the teacher get to see, oh, this is where everyone is making the mistake, or this is how this misconception came about. Or this is where I need to target for my next lesson. So it makes you more responsive in the moment. And then the third and fourth one where we’re actually launching for a small group this summer, it won’t be available to the masses until maybe a year or two down the line. We have one small group that we’re just going to test it out with. The third one is about developing your inquiry environment. So thinking not just about your physical space, but thinking about your intellectual space too. So what are the things that you can embed into your physical space and develop in a student’s intellectual space that will help you create a holistic inquiry environment?

Eric Cross (17:22):

So this is this inquiry space, not just physical, but then also the intellectual environment

Jessica Kesler (17:26):

Intellectual. Exactly. And it focuses in on the design process and how we design spaces. Because as a teacher, we take a lot of background in the background onus of de creating these spaces. If you take someone out of an old habit or space and tell them, oh, we are gonna change in your minds and teach inquiry, but put them back in the same environment, they’re gonna be conflicted, right? Their bodies wanna do one thing, their minds wanna do another thing. And they don’t know how to bridge the gap between the two. So this is a really illuminating, like how do you change all the spaces? How do you design a flow in space in your classroom and in your students thinking that allows them to be productive in that inquiry environment. It’s really good stuff

Eric Cross (18:11):

Who creates these experiences for teachers.

Jessica Kesler (18:14):

We do. So me and my teammate, Holly, Dard shout out HD. Holly Dard, we really put our brains together and developed these. So it’s a really a team effort because like Jason Porter, Eric even David Tong when he was with us, really collectively thought about what it is that we wanted educators to experience. And then Holly and I do a lot of the grunt work, but then we really collectively put it all together and make it what it is. So I have a heavy hand and a lot of that. And in fact, inquiry four is all about the entrepreneurial mindset. So oftentimes educators don’t consider themselves entrepreneurs, but if you take a look at what an entrepreneur is and what they do on a regular basis, educators are entrepreneurs, but we are missing an opportunity to use our entrepreneurialship in the classroom to drive for stem competencies in inquiry based practices. And so in, in stem studio, four, we really focus in on how the educator is the entrepreneur of their classroom, but also uses entrepreneurial techniques to tackle issues in their schools, districts, and spheres of influence. So it’s really taking the educator to the next level of their teaching practice through entrepreneurship. This is some deep stuff.

Eric Cross (19:37):

It is, well, this entrepreneurial mindset is, is something that I’ve heard before. And I definitely see the link between even the term teacherpreneur beyond just selling lessons on teachers, pay teachers. <Laugh> it’s way bigger than that,

Jessica Kesler (19:52):

Where entrepreneurs actually in the classroom, not just because we do things on the side to make money. Exactly.

Eric Cross (19:57):

A lot of teachers hear that. They’re like, yeah, I got, you know, I got, got a few jobs going on. Exactly. Yeah. And, and I think one thing we, I should have said this earlier, and I’ll, I’ll say the intro, but these are all free.

Jessica Kesler (20:07):

This is largely sponsored by do OD stem as well. So we have a partnership with D O D stem and they have been driving forth the department of defenses, strategic stem plan for years. And as a part of that, they give us funding in order to provide these opportunities for educators for free. So literally educators don’t have to come with anything. And we are giving you not only the content of our, our lessons and our instruction, but we’re also going give you a chance to earn a free micro credential. So people are spending 12 plus hours with us in a workshop which sounds like a lot of time, but it’s over a series of time and days. But we wanna give you something that means something after that, we wanna give you a micro credential to add to your resume, to show your administrator, to show that you have achieved the next level in your professional learning career.

Jessica Kesler (20:59):

Right? And if you finish the pathway, which is all for, then we give you our TGR foundation certificate that says that you’ve completed so much professional learning in these areas that you are basically a warrior of inquiry that you are ready to go out and really lay inquiry out in new creative ways, not in your CLA just in your classroom, but everywhere you go in your district, in your school. And on top of that, we just offer so many other great free partnership incentives like discovery, education, experience licenses. We’re doing raffles this summer. We’re giving out free a free meal voucher so that you can get some lunch. One of these days we’re offering $50 gift cards so that people can get school supplies. So anything you do with us, and you’re like, man, I really wish I could have this so that I can do that in my classroom. We wanna break down all the barriers that prevent teachers from doing this stuff in their classroom, actively engaging in this stuff. And we give you a free copy of the books that we reference. Again, trying to break down the barriers,

Eric Cross (22:00):

What are some of the things that you’ve noticed kind of being on both sides of science teaching in the classroom, and then in training trends with teachers, things like moments that have been great or, or challenges that you’re noticing teachers experiencing, especially maybe changes in differences from a, from, you know, an outsider’s perspective. Seeing what teachers are experiencing are like, since you’ve been doing PDs for folks.

Jessica Kesler (22:22):

Yeah. So it’s actually really interesting being on both sides of the fence. You know, what I always noticed is that teachers are eager, but they’re tired. They’re wanting to learn, but they can’t take advantage of every opportunity to learn. And especially during COVID time, if you take a look at even all the professional learning that’s happening across the world right now, attendance is going down because teachers are so burnt out this hybrid space, this either we’re in person, but we’re still wearing masks and still social distancing and all this other stuff, or I’m still virtual or I’m virtual some days and I’m in person other days, it’s just wearing our teachers out. And I think we notice that as we see a large numbers of friends and family just start to retire, right? Like people are just like, I don’t know if I can adapt to another change in education.

Jessica Kesler (23:14):

Like education goes through these waves of big changes and it’s hard for everybody to adapt to, but for those who are willing to stick it out and those who are able to stick it out and, and still have that energy and enthusiasm to learn, they come in so hungry for more resources, so hungry to learn more and they still have their why at the top of their minds, as they think about why they do this it’s for the kids it’s to drive this mission is to get more kids excited about this. And they just come in so passionate. So once they come in, once we can get them to come in they stick with us for a really long time. They’re like, what else do you have? What else do you have? What else do you have? But we hear, still hear the common threads of like, do I have time for this?

Jessica Kesler (23:58):

Do I have the funding for this? Do I have the energy for this? Do, will my students understand this? And we are constantly facing that challenge of trying to address those things by, but keeping the excitement going, like we know you don’t have enough time. We’re gonna call it out from the start. I know you don’t have enough time to try to do 29 extra things. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But my advice is always, but do one thing at a time, start with something small, asking your students a few questions rather than lecturing to them. Doesn’t take a whole lot of extra time, but it gives you so much extra insight. So let’s not work, you know, harder, let’s work smarter. Let’s embed this into our, our work together. And I always say that we’re not asking you to add to your plate. You know, it’s not Thanksgiving where you just pile, keep piling on a plate.

Jessica Kesler (24:47):

It’s it’s a time where you organize the plate. It’s allowing inquiry to restructure your plate so that everything has its place and its time mm-hmm <affirmative> do you wanna leave room so that the educator feels comfortable trying some new initiative? That’s why we encourage admin. We have librarians attend elementary school teachers, administrators, we, and we encourage it because everyone can support the classroom. And if administrators are more in touch with these new practices and tools and strategies, then they can help facilitate the learning. As the teachers are trying new things and coaching them in specific areas. So we really opened the door for some studios, for any and all who are gonna participate in that child’s education, because us all rallying around them as that three-legged stool helps to create that environment and helps support the teacher. The teachers need support, and we’re trying to do our part by providing the resources and the tools, but they need everyone else to.

Eric Cross (25:42):

We don’t always think about it as a way to support, to get support in our classrooms for ourselves. But I agree with you by, by educating vertically up the chain, you know, vice principal, principal, whoever it is, mm-hmm <affirmative> superintendent getting them on boarding and, and educating them to see what’s ex expected. We’ll open up doors and more freedoms for you because now you just have this vertical alignment of folks kind of on the same wave length. Exactly.

Jessica Kesler (26:07):

Yep. And that’s why we love districts. Anaheim union school district is actually one of our partners this year, where they have invited their teachers to participate in the whole pathway because they know how important it is that we practice these tools and strategies. And they want as many educators in the same space going through this at the same time as possible so that we can support each other through it. And so that we don’t feel like islands, oftentimes as educators, we feel like islands we’re in our classroom day in and day out. And we don’t feel like there’s anybody else who’s doing the same things we’re doing and supporting the work that we’re doing. So when we get administrators who support it, it’s magical. It can be magical.

Eric Cross (26:47):

What are some opportunities that are coming up if somebody’s listening and they, they wanna sign up for something, are there things coming up this month or next month or in the summer that they can participate in?

Jessica Kesler (26:55):

Yeah, for sure. So we’ve been doing our monthly workshops. And if you go to our website, so if you actually go to TGR foundation.org and slash stem studio you’ll actually see our summer events already posted, already live for everybody to start engaging in. And again, everything is free. So registration is open and available for everybody to participate. We are offering that first inquiry stem studio inquiry mindset twice the week of June 21st and the week of June 28th, two opportunities for educators to join us for inquiry mindset for the first one. And then also in July, we’re offering the second one making inquiry visible, and that’s the week of July 12th. So again, all free stuff, raffle prizes are available for those who register early and get in there and reserve their seat. It is limited seating. And so, yeah, a bunch of opportunities coming up this summer and guess what all you have to do is sign up and then you get all these free things coming your way. You get to look forward to all this exciting stuff. So TGR foundation.org/studio.

Eric Cross (28:01):

And if folks wanna follow you in your career, your journey.

Jessica Kesler (28:05):

Yeah. I’m on Twitter and LinkedIn, for sure. And it’s Jessica Kessler, K E S L E R one S

Eric Cross (28:12):

I wanna honor your time. And as we close, you’ve been an educator of impact in, in your own classroom. And I know you’re still teaching actively now, and you’ve also made an impact on me and other educators through your professional development. And, and the last question I’d like to end with is who’s the most memorable teacher or learning experience that you had during K eight. When you think about you, your time in school, who was a memorable teacher or a moment that kind of stands out to you and what was it that they did that made them memorable?

Jessica Kesler (28:44):

It was that one teacher who brought me my first T I, 84. You remember when a new calculators came out, I had a teacher give me one amazing, but I think in high school, there was really a turn about where I had miss Caroline and Mr. Canello math and Spanish teacher. So two opposite wings of the, the education spectrum there. But most of all, they listened. They listened to me. I felt seen with those teachers, they supported me. They listened to me, they saw my potential. And they just rallied around me and continued to support me thereafter. Even afterwards, I continued to reach out to those educators. And I think that’s what drives me to be that force for, for my students. And I remember my most memorable heart touching education experience was probably, I had a high school student get interviewed by the newspaper.

Jessica Kesler (29:38):

And they were like, oh, what’s your favorite classes? And what’s your favorite this, and what’s your favorite of that? And he was like, well, I love chemistry, which is what I was teaching. It was like, and I love my after school robotics team. I was leading and I love this and this and this. And he basically listed all the stuff that I was doing that I was teaching and that I was leading in the school. And I was like this one student, literally out of all the classes and experiences he’s experiencing is really just calling out everything that I’m doing. And I feel like it’s because he felt seen, he felt heard. He was like, this person is listening to me. And no matter what space we’re in this teacher is, is there for me. And so I try to be that wherever I go, <laugh>,

Eric Cross (30:16):

It’s amazing how making someone feel seen and, and making them feel important and heard, and, and being present for them. All of a sudden opens up their interests into the subjects that you’re teaching. Thank you for, for making time for serving our kids for serving teachers during a hard time, and for making PD one, being part of an organization that made it free and serve teachers, but also making PD fun and enthusiastic. I think that was one of the things in addition to the empathy that you led with, but also your enthusiasm and passion was something that really resonated with me. And it made our time together. Feel like something that was, was making me a better teacher for my kids. And so, thanks for making time for us tonight. Oh,

Jessica Kesler (30:53):

Bless face.

Eric Cross (30:57):

Thanks so much for joining me and Jessica today. If you have any great lessons or ways that you connect with students, please email us@stemamplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s S TM amplifycom.wpengine.com. And please remember to support the podcast by clicking subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also hear more about the podcast in our Facebook group, science connections, the community until next time.

Stay connected!

Join our community and get new episodes every other Tuesday!

We’ll also share new and exciting free resources for your classroom every month.

What Jessica Kesler says about science

“One student at a time isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can reach those millions of kids and help them be prepared for future careers. ”

– Jessica Kesler

Director of Professional Learning, TGR Foundation

Meet the guest

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Weaving Literacy Instruction Into the Science Classroom to Accelerate Learning

Grade 6

Unit 1: Area and Surface Area

Illustrative MathematicsDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic A: Reasoning to Find Area 
Lesson 1: Tiling the PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Finding Area by Decomposing and Rearranging
Lesson 3: Reasoning to Find Area		Unit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Topic 2: Parallelograms
Lesson 4: Parallelograms
Lesson 5: Bases and Heights of Parallelograms
Lesson 6: Area of Parallelograms		Unit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Topic 3: Triangles
Lesson 7: From Parallelograms to TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 8: Area of TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 9: Formula for the Area of a Triangle
Lesson 10: Bases and Heights of Triangles		Unit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Topic 4: Polygons
Lesson 11: PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 8: Pile of Polygons
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Unit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Topic 5: Surface Area
Lesson 12: What is Surface Area?Unit 1
Lesson 9: Renata´s Stickers [Free lesson]
Lesson 13: PolyhedraUnit 1Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 14: Nets and Surface AreaUnit 1
Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 11: Nothing But Nets (Print available)
Lesson 13: Take It To Go
Lesson 15: More Nets, More Surface AreaUnit 1
Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 11: Nothing But Nets (Print available)
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 16: Distinguishing Between Surface Area and Volume
Topic 6: Squares and Cubes 
Lesson 17: Squares and CubesUnit 6
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 18: Surface Area of a Cube 
Topic 7: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 19: Designing a TentUnit 1
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)

Unit 2: Introducing Ratios

Topic 1: Introducing Ratios
Lesson 1: Introducing Ratios and Ratio LanguageUnit 2Lesson 1: Pizza Maker [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 2: Representing Ratios with DiagramsUnit 2Lesson 1: Pizza Maker [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)
Topic 2: Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 3: RecipesUnit 2Lesson 1: Pizza Maker [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 4: Color MixturesUnit 2Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1Lesson 12: Mixing paint, Part 2
Lesson 5: Defining Equivalent RatiosUnit 2Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)Lesson 4: Fruit Lab [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Community LifePractice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 3: Representing Equivalent ratios
Lesson 6: Introducing Double Number Line DiagramsUnit 2Lesson 5: Balancing Act
Lesson 7: Creating Double Line DiagramsUnit 2Lesson 5: Balancing ActLesson 6: Product prices (Print available)
Lesson 8: How Much for One?Unit 2Lesson 6: Product prices (Print available)
Lesson 9: Constant SpeedUnit 2Lesson 8: World Records (Print available)
Lesson 10: Comparing Situations by Examining RatiosUnit 2Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1 
Topic 4: Solving Ratio and Rate Problems
Lesson 11: Representing Ratios with TablesUnit 2Lesson 9: Disaster Preparation [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Navigating a Table of Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 13: Tables and Double Line Diagrams		Unit 2Lesson 6: Product prices (Print available)Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 14: Solving Equivalent Ratio ProblemsUnit 2Lesson 6: Product prices (Print available)Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1Lesson 10: BalloonsLesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Topic 5: Part-Part-Whole Ratios
Lesson 15: Part-Part-Whole RatiosUnit 2Lesson 12: Mixing paint, Part 2Lesson 13: City Planning
Lesson 16: Solving More Ratio ProblemsUnit 2Lesson 13: City PlanningLesson 14: Lunch Waste (Print available)
Topic 6: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 17: A Fermi ProblemUnit 2Lesson 13: City PlanningLesson 14: Lunch Waste (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Unit 3: Rates and Percentages

Topic 1: Units of Measurement 
Lesson 1: The Burj KhalifaUnit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Topic 2: Unit Conversion
Lesson 2: Anchoring Units of MeasurementUnit 3
Lesson 1: Many Measurements (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Measuring with Different-Sized Units
Lesson 4: Converting Units		Unit 3
Lesson 2: Counting Classrooms
Lesson 3: Pen Pals
Topic 3: Rates
Lesson 5: Comparing Speeds and PricesUnit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 6: Interpreting Rates
Lesson 7: Equivalent Ratios Have the Same Unit Rates		Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: More About Constant SpeedUnit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 9: Solving Rate ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson 7: More Soft Serve
Topic 4: Percentages
Lesson 10: What Are percentagesUnit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 11: Percentages and Double Number LinesUnit 3
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 12: Percentages and Tape DiagramsUnit 3
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 13: Benchmark percentagesUnit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies [Free lesson]
Lesson 14: Solving Percentage Problems
Lesson 15: Finding This Percent of That
Lesson 16: Finding the Percentage		Unit 3
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 17: Painting a RoomUnit 3
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 7: Equivalent Ratios Have the Same Unit RatesUnit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]

Unit 4: Dividing Fractions

Topic 1: Making Sense of Division 
Lesson 1: Size of Divisor and Size of Quotient
Lesson 2: Meanings of Division		Unit 4Lesson 1: Cookie Cutter
Lesson 3: Interpreting Division SituationsUnit 4Lesson 2: Making Connections (Print available)
Topic 2: Meanings of Fraction Division
Lesson 4: How Many Groups (Part 1)Unit 4Lesson 3: Flour Planner [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Flower Planters 
Lesson 5: How Many Groups (Part 2)Unit 4Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)
Lesson 6: Using Diagrams to Find the Number of GroupsUnit 4Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)Lesson 6: Fill the Gap [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: What Fraction of a Group?
Lesson 8: How Much in Each Group? (Part 1)
Lesson 9: How Much in Each Group? (Part 2)		Unit 4Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Topic 3: Algorithm for Fraction Division
Lesson 10: Dividing by Unit and Non-Unit FractionsUnit 4Lesson 7: Break It DownLesson 8: Potting SoilLesson 9: Division Challenges 
Lesson 11: Using an Algorithm to Divide FractionsUnit 4Lesson 9: Division ChallengesPractice Day
Topic 4: Fractions in Lengths, Areas, and Volumes
Lesson 12: Fractional LengthsUnit 4Lesson 11: Classroom Comparisons
Lesson 13: Rectangles with Fractional Side LengthsUnit 4Lesson 12: Puzzling Areas (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 14: Fractional Lengths in Triangles and Prisms
Lesson 15: Volume of PrismsUnit 4Lesson 13: Volume Challenges
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 16: Solving Problems with FractionsUnit 4Lesson 10: Swap Meet (Print available)
Lesson 17: Fitting Boxes into BoxesUnit 4Lesson 14: Planter Planner (Print available)

Unit 5: Arithmetic in Base Ten

Topic 1: Warming Up to Decimals 
Lesson 1: Using Decimals in a Shopping ContextUnit 5Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals (Print available) [Free lesson]
Topic 2: Adding and Subtracting Decimals
Lesson 2: Using Decimals to Represent Addition and SubtractionUnit 5Lesson 3: Fruit by the PoundLesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 3: Adding and Subtracting Decimals with Few Non-Zero DigitsUnit 5Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 4: Adding and Subtracting Decimals with Many Non-Zero Digits 
Topic 3: Multiplying Decimals
Lesson 5: Decimal Points in ProductsUnit 5Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Methods for Multiplying DecimalsUnit 5Lesson 5: Decimal MultiplicationLesson 6: Multiplying with AreasLesson 7: Multiplication methods (Print available)
Lesson 7: Using Diagrams to Represent MultiplicationUnit 5Lesson 5: Decimal MultiplicationLesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 8: Calculating Products of DecimalsUnit 5Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Topic 4: Dividing Decimals
Lesson 9: Using the Partial Quotients MethodUnit 5Lesson 8: Division Diagrams
Lesson 10: Using Long DivisionUnit 5Lesson 8: Division DiagramsLesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 11: Dividing Numbers That Result in Decimals
Lesson 12: Dividing Decimals by Whole Numbers
Lesson 13: Dividing Decimals by Decimals		Unit 5Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 14: Using Operations on Decimals to Solve ProblemsUnit 5Lesson 11: Movie Time [Free lesson]
Lesson 15: Making and Measuring Boxes
Lesson 12: Dividing Decimals by Whole Numbers 
Lesson 13: Dividing Decimals by DecimalsUnit 5Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)

Unit 6: Expressions and Equations

Lesson 1: Tape Diagrams and Equations
Lesson 2: Truth and Equations		Unit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Staying in BalanceUnit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 4: Practice Solving Equations and Representing Situations with EquationsUnit 6Lesson 3: Hanging AroundLesson 4: Hanging It UpLesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 5: A New Way to Interpret a and bUnit 6Lesson 4: Hanging It UpLesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Topic 2: Equal and Equivalent
Lesson 6: Write Expressions Where Letters Stand for NumbersUnit 6Lesson 6: Vari-applesLesson 7: Border Tiles
Lesson 7: Revisit PercentagesUnit 3Lesson 10: What’s Missing?Lesson 11: Cost BreakdownLesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 8: Equal and EquivalentUnit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)Lesson 3: Hanging AroundLesson 6: Vari-apples
Topic 9: The Distributive Property, Part 1Unit 6Lesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: The Distributive Property, Part 2
Lesson 11: The Distributive Property, Part 3		Unit 6Lesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Topic 3: Expressions with Exponents
Lesson 12: Meaning of ExponentsUnit 6Lesson 10: PowersLesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 13: Expressions with Exponents
Lesson 14: Evaluating Expressions with Exponents
Lesson 15: Equivalent Exponential Expressions		Unit 6Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Topic 4: Relationships Between Quantities 
Lesson 16: Two Related Quantities, Part 1
Lesson 17: Two Related Quantities, Part 2
Lesson 18: More Relationships		Unit 6Lesson 13: Turtles All the WayLesson 14: Representing RelationshipsLesson 15: Connecting Representations (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 19: Tables, Equations, and Graphs, Oh My!Unit 6Lesson 16: Subway fares (Print available) [Free lesson]

Unit 7: Rational Numbers

Topic 1: Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 1: Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 7Lesson 1: Can You Dig In [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 2: Points on the Number LineUnit 7Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 3: Comparing Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 4: Ordering Rational Numbers		Unit 7Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Using Negative Numbers to make Sense of ContextsUnit 7 Lesson 4: Sub-Zero
Lesson 6: Absolute Value of Numbers
Lesson 7: Comparing Numbers and Distance from Zero		Unit 7Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Topic 2: Inequalities
Lesson 8: Writing and Graphing InequalitiesUnit 7Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 9: Solutions of Inequalities
Lesson 10: Interpreting Inequalities		Unit 7Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Comparing WeightsLesson 8: Shira´s Solutions
Topic 3: The Coordinate Plane
Lesson 11: Points on the Coordinate Plane
Lesson 12: Constructing the Coordinate Plane		Unit 7Lesson 9: Sand Dollar SearchLesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 13: Interpreting Points on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 9: Sand Dollar SearchLesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate PlaneLesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 14: Distances on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 11: Polygon MakerLesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 15: Shapes on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]Lesson 2: LettersLesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)Lesson 6: Triangles and ParallelogramsUnit 7Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)Lesson 11: Polygon MakerLesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Topic 4: Common Factors and Common Multiples
Lesson 16: Common FactorsUnit 5Lesson 15: Common factors
Lesson 17: Common MultiplesUnit 5Lesson 14: Common Multiples
Lesson 18: Using Common Multiples and Common FactorsUnit 5Lesson 14: Common MultiplesLesson 15: Common factorsPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 19: Drawing on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 11: Polygon MakerLesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)

Unit 8: Data Sets and Distributions

Topic 1: Data, Variability, and Statistical Questions
Lesson 1: Got Data?
Lesson 2: Statistical Questions		Unit 8Lesson 1: Screen TimeLesson 2: Dot Plots
Topic 2: Dot Plots and Distributions
Lesson 3: Representing Data Graphically
Lesson 4: Dot Plots
Lesson 5: Using Dot Plots to Answer Statistical Questions		Unit 8Lesson 2: Dot PlotsLesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 6: Interpreting Histograms
Lesson 7: Using Histograms to Answer Statistical Questions
Lesson 8: Describing Distributions on Histograms		Unit 8Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens [Free lesson]Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Topic 3: Measures of Center and Variability
Lesson 9: Mean
Lesson 10: Finding and Interpreting the Mean as a Balance Point		Unit 8Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 11: Variability and MADUnit 8Lesson 8: Pop It!
Lesson 12: Using Mean and MAD to Make ComparisonsUnit 8Lesson 9: Hoops
Topic 4: Median and IQR
Lesson 13: MedianUnit 8Lesson 11: Toy Cars [Free lesson]Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 14: Comparing Mean and MedianUnit 8Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 15: Quartiles and Interquartile RangeUnit 8Lesson 13: Pumpkin Patch
Lesson 16: Box PlotsUnit 8Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 17: Using Box PlotsUnit 8Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 15: Hollywood Part 2Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 18: Using Data to Solve ProblemsUnit 8Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)

Unit 9: Putting It All Together

Topic 1: Making Connections
Lesson 1: Fermi Problems
Lesson 2: In Our Class Were the World		Unit 3Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 3: Rectangle MadnessUnit 5Lesson 14: Common MultiplesLesson 15: Common factors
Topic 2: Voting
Lesson 4: How Do We Choose?Unit 2Lesson 13: City PlanningLesson 14: Lunch Waste (Print available)
Lesson 5: More than Two ChoicesUnit 3Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 6: Picking RepresentativesUnit 8Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)

Grade 7

Unit 1: Scale Drawings

Illustrative MathematicsDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic 1: Scaled Copies 
Lesson 1: What are Scaled Copies?Unit 1Lesson 1: Scaling Machines [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Corresponding Parts and Scale FactorsUnit 1Lesson 2: Scaling Robots Unit 3Lesson 1: Toothpicks
Lesson 3: Making Scaled Copies
Lesson 4: Scaled Relationship		Unit 1Lesson 3: Make It Scale Unit 4Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 5: The Size and the Scale FactorUnit 1Lesson 4: Scale Factor Challenges
Lesson 6: Scaling and AreaUnit 1Lesson 5: TilesPractice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 2: Scale Drawings 
Lesson 7: Scale DrawingsUnit 1Lesson 6: Introducing ScaleLesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Scale Drawings and Maps 
Lesson 9: Creating Scale Drawings
Lesson 10: Changing Scales in Scale Drawings		Unit 1Lesson 8: Scaling StatesLesson 9: Scaling BuildingsLesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Lesson 11: Scales without Units 
Lesson 12: Units in Scale DrawingsUnit 1Lesson 8: Scaling StatesLesson 9: Scaling BuildingsLesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic 3: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 13: Draw It to ScaleUnit 1Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)

Unit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships

Topic 1: Representing Proportional Relationships with Tables
Lesson 1: One of These Things Is Not Like the OthersUnit 2Lesson 1: Paint [Free lesson] 
Lesson 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships with TablesUnit 2Lesson 2: Balloon FloatLesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 3: More About Constant of ProportionalityUnit 2Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)Unit 4Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Topic 2: Representing Proportional Relationships with Equations 
Lesson 4: Proportional Relationships with EquationsUnit 2Lesson 4: Robot FactoryLesson 5: SnapshotsLesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 5: Two Equations for Each Relationship
Lesson 6: Using Equations to Solve Problems		Unit 2Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 7: All Kinds of EquationsPractice Day
Topic 3: Comparing Proportional and Nonproportional Relationships 
Lesson 7: Comparing Relationships with TablesUnit 2Lesson 2: Balloon FloatLesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 8: Comparing Relationships with EquationsUnit 2Lesson 4: Robot FactoryLesson 5: SnapshotsLesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 7: All Kinds of EquationsLesson 11: Four RepresentationsLesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 9: Solving Problems About Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Topic 4: Representing Proportional Relationships with Graphs
Lesson 10: Introducing Graphs of Proportional Relationships
Lesson 11: Interpreting Graphs of Proportional Relationships
Lesson 12: Using Graphs to Compare Relationships
Lesson 13: Two Graphs for Each Relationship		Unit 2Lesson 8: Dino Pops [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Gallon ChallengeLesson 10: Three TurtlesLesson 11: Four RepresentationsLesson 12: Water Efficiency
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 14: For RepresentationsUnit 2Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 15: Using Water EfficiencyUnit 2Lesson 12: Water Efficiency

Unit 3: Measuring Circles

Topic 1: Circumference of a Circle 
Lesson 1: How Well Can You Measure?Unit 3Lesson 1: Toothpicks
Lesson 2: Exploring Circles
Lesson 3: Exploring Circumference
Lesson 4: Applying Circumference		Unit 3Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?Lesson 3: Measuring Around [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Circumference and Wheels 
Topic 2: Area of a Circle
Lesson 6: Estimating AreasUnit 3Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 7: Exploring the Area of a Circle
Lesson 8: Relating Area to Circumference		Unit 3Lesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)Lesson 7: Why Pi?Lesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Circle vs. SquarePractice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 9: Applying Area of CirclesUnit 3Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Topic 3: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 10: Distinguishing Circumference and AreaUnit 3Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 11: Stained-Glass WindowsUnit 3Lesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)

Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages

Topic 1: Proportional Relationships with Fractions 
Lesson 1: Lots of Flags
Lesson 2: Ratios and Rates with Fractions
Lesson 3: Revisiting Proportional Relationships
Lesson 4: Half as Much Again		Unit 4Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 5: Say It with Decimals 
Topic 2: Percent Increase and Decrease 
Lesson 6: Increasing and DecreasingUnit 4Lesson 4: More and LessLesson 5: All the EquationsLesson 6: 100% (Print available)Lesson 7: Percent machines [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: One Hundred percentUnit 4Lesson 6: 100% (Print available)
Lesson 8: Percent Increase and Decrease with EquationsUnit 4Lesson 5: All the Equations
Lesson 9: More and Less than 1% 
Topic 3: Applying Percentages
Lesson 10: Tax and Tip
Lesson 11: Percentage Contexts		Unit 4Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Finding the PercentagesUnit 4Lesson 4: More and Less
Lesson 13: Measurement Error
Lesson 14: Percent Error
Lesson 15: Error Intervals		Unit 4Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 16: Posing Percent ProblemsUnit 4Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]Practice Day

Unit 5: Rational Number Arithmetic

Topic 1: Interpreting Negative Numbers 
Lesson 1: Interpreting Negative NumbersUnit 5Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors [Free lesson]
Topic 2: Adding and Subtracting Rational Numbers
Lesson 2: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 3: Changing Elevation		Unit 5Lesson 2: More Floats and AnchorsLesson 3: BumpersLesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Money and Debts 
Lesson 5: Representing SubtractionUnit 5Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 6: Subtracting Rational Numbers
Lesson 7: Adding and Subtracting to Solve Problems		Unit 5Lesson 3: BumpersLesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Number PuzzlesLesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Changing TemperaturesLesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 3: Multiplying and Dividing Rational Numbers
Lesson 8: Position, Speed, and Direction
Lesson 9: Multiplying Rational Numbers
Lesson 10: Multiply!		Unit 5Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 11: Dividing Rational NumbersUnit 5Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 12: Negative Rates 
Topic 4: Four Operations with Rational Numbers 
Lesson 13: Expressions with Rational NumbersUnit 5Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 14: Solving Problems with Rational NumbersLesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 12: Arctic Ice Sea (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Topic 5: Solving Equations When There Are Negative Numbers 
Lesson 15: Making and Measuring Boxes 
Lesson 16: Representing Contexts with Equations 
Topic 6: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 17: The Stock market

Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Topic 1: Representing Situations of the Form px + q = r and p(x + q) = r
Lesson 1: Relationships Between Quantities
Unit 2 Lesson 1: Paint [Free lesson] Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Unit 4 Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson] Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)
Unit 6 Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 2: Reasoning about Contexts with Tape Diagrams
Lesson 3: Reasoning about Equations with Tape Diagrams
Lesson 4: Reasoning about Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 1)
Lesson 5: Reasoning about Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 2)		Unit 6Lesson 2: Smudged ReceiptsLesson 3: EquationsLesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 6: Distinguishing between Two Types of SituationsUnit 6Lesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)
Topic 2: Solving Equations of the Form px + q = r and p(x + q) = r and Problems That lead to Those Equations 
Lesson 7: Reasoning about Solving Equations (Part 1)Unit 6Lesson 5: Balancing MovesLesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available) 
Lesson 8: Reasoning about Solving Equations (Part 2)Unit 6Lesson 5: Balancing MovesLesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)Lesson 9: Always-Equal Machines
Topic 9 Dealing with Negative Numbers 
Lesson 10: Different Options for Solving One EquationUnit 6Lesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)Lesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 11: Using Equations to Solve ProblemsUnit 6Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)
Lesson 12: Solving Problems about Percent Increase or DecreaseUnit 4Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Topic 3: Inequalities 
Lesson 13: Reintroducing InequalitiesUnit 6Lesson 13: I Saw the SignsLesson 15: BudgetingLesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]
Lesson 14: Finding Solutions to Inequalities in Context
Lesson 15: Efficiency Solving Inequalities		Unit 6Lesson 14: Unbalanced HangersLesson 15 Budgeting (Print available)Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)
Lesson 16: Interpreting Inequalities
Lesson 17: Modeling with Inequalities		Unit 6Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic 4: Writing Equivalent Expressions 
Lesson 18: Subtraction in Equivalent ExpressionsUnit 6Lesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available) 
Lesson 19: Expanding and FactoringUnit 6Lesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 20: Combining Like Terms (Part 1)
Lesson 21: Combining Like Terms (Part 2)
Lesson 22: Combining Like Terms (Part 3)		Unit 6Lesson 2: Smudged ReceiptsLesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)Lesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 23: Applications of ExpressionsUnit 6Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)

Unit 7: Angles, Triangles, and Prisms

Topic 1: Angle Relationships
Lesson 1:Relationships of Angles
Unit 7 Lesson 1: Pinwheels Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson] Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 2: Adjacent Angles
Lesson 3: Nonadjacent Angles		Unit 7Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Solving for Unknown AnglesUnit 7Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Angle DiagramsLesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available)
Lesson 5: Using Equations to Solve for Unknown AnglesUnit 7Lesson 3: Angle DiagramsLesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Topic 2: Drawing Polygons with Given Conditions 
Lesson 6: Building Polygons (Part 1)
Lesson 7: Building Polygons (Part 2)		Unit 7Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 8: Triangles with 3 Common MeasuresUnit 7Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 9: Drawing Triangles (Part 1)
Lesson 10: Drawing Triangles (Part 2)		Unit 7Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than OneLesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 3: Solid Geometry
Lesson 11: Slicing SolidsUnit 7Lesson 9: Slicing Solids
Lesson 12: Volume of Right PrismsUnit 7Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 13: Decomposing Bases for AreasUnit 7Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 14: Surface Area of Right PrismsUnit 7Lesson 10: Simple PrismsLesson 11: More Complicated PrismsLesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print available)
Lesson 15: Distinguishing Volume and Surface Area
Lesson 16: Applying Volume and Surface AreaUnit 7Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 17: Building Prisms

Unit 8: Probability and Sampling

Topic 1: Probabilities of Single Step Events
Lesson 1: Mystery Bags
Lesson 2: Chance Experiments
Lesson 3: What Are Probabilities?		Unit 8 Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available) [Free lesson] Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson] Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 4: Estimating Probabilities Through Repeated ExperimentsUnit 8Lesson 4: Spin ClassLesson 5: Is It Fair?Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 5: More Estimating ProbabilitiesUnit 8Lesson 6: Fair GamesLesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 6: Estimating Probabilities Using SimulationUnit 8Lesson 6: Fair GamesLesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate ItLesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Topic 2: Probabilities of Multi-step Events
Lesson 7: Simulating Multi-step EventsUnit 8Lesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate ItLesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 8: Keeping Track of All Possible OutcomesUnit 8Lesson 4: Spin ClassLesson 5: Is It Fair?Lesson 6: Fair Games
Topic 9: Multi-step experiments
Lesson 10: Designing SimulationsUnit 8Lesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate ItLesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Topic 3: Sampling
Lesson 11: Comparing Groups
Lesson 12: Larger Populations
Lesson 13: What Makes a Good Sample?
Lesson 14: Sampling in a Fair Way		Unit 8Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Headlines
Topic 4: Using Samples
Lesson 15: Estimating Population Measures of Center
Lesson 16: Estimating Population Proportions		Unit 8 Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 11: HeadlinesLesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 17: More about Sampling Variability
Lesson 18: Comparing Populations Using Samples
Lesson 19: Comparing Populations with Friends		Unit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Plots and SamplesLesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 20: Memory TestUnit 8Lesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)

Grade 8

Unit 1: Rigid Transformations and Congruence

Illustrative MathematicsDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic 1: Rigid Transformations 
Lesson 1: Moving in the PlaneUnit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Naming the MovesUnit 1Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Grid MovesUnit 1Lesson 3: Transformation GolfLesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Getting CoordinatedUnit 3Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 4: Making the MovesUnit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 5: Coordinate MovesUnit 1Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Describing TransformationsUnit 1Lesson 5: Getting CoordinatedLesson 6: Connecting the Dots [Free lesson]
Topic 2: Properties of Rigid Transformations 
Lesson 7: No Bending or StretchingUnit 1Lesson 7: No Bending, No Stretching
Lesson 8: Rotation PatternsUnit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 9: Moves in Parallel
Lesson 10: Composing Figures		Unit 1 Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Topic 3: Congruence 
Lesson 11: What is the Same?
Lesson 12: Congruent Polygons
Lesson 13: Congruence		Unit 1 Lesson 7: Are They the Same?Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?Practice Day (Print available)
Topic 4: Angles in a Triangle
Lesson 14: Alternate Interior Angles
Lesson 15: Adding the Angles in a Triangle		Unit 1 Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 16: Parallel Lines and the Angles in a TriangleUnit 1 Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 17: Rotate and TessellateLesson 13: Tessellate [Free lesson]

Unit 2: Dilations, Similarity, and Introducing Slope

Topic 1: Dilations
Lesson 1: Projecting and ScalingUnit 2Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Circular Grid
Lesson 3: Dilations with No Grid
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Square Grid
Lesson 5: More Dilations		Unit 2Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Match My DilationLesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Topic 2: Similarity 
Lesson 6: SimilarityUnit 2Lesson 5: Transformations Golf with DilationsLesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Similar Polygons 
Lesson 8: Similar Triangles
Lesson 9: Side Length Quotients in Similar Triangles		Unit 2Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?Lesson 8: Shadows
Topic 3: Slope
Lesson 10: Meet SlopeUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a PlanePractice Day (Print available)Unit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations Unit 4Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Lesson 11: Writing Equations of LinesUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 6: TranslationsLesson 10: SolutionsLesson 11: Pennies and Quarters Unit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 12: Using Equations of LinesUnit 3Lesson 9: Coin Capture
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 13: The Shadow KnowsUnit 2Lesson 8: Shadows

Unit 3: Linear Relationships

Topic 1: Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 1: Understanding Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Water Tank Unit 5Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 3: Representing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson] Unit 5Lesson 4: Window FramesLesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 4: Comparing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 3: Posters
Topic 2: Representing Linear Relationships
Lesson 5: Introduction to Linear RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Stacking CupsUnit 5Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6: More Linear RelationshipsUnit 5Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 7: Representations of Linear RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 8: Translating y = mx + bUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 6: Translations
Topic 3: Finding Slopes 
Lesson 9: Slopes Don’t Have to be PositiveUnit 3Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: TranslationsLesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 10: Calculating SlopeUnit 3Lesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 11: Equations of All Kinds of LinesUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Topic 4: Linear Equations 
Lesson 12: Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 6: TranslationsLesson 10: Solutions Unit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 13: More Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3 Lesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: TranslationsLesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 10: Solutions
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 14: Using Linear Relations to Solve ProblemsUnit 3 Lesson 11: Pennies and Quarters

Unit 4: Linear Equations and Linear Systems

Topic 1: Puzzle Problems 
Lesson 1: Number PuzzlesUnit 4Lesson 1: Number machines
Topic 2: Linear Equation in One Variable 
Lesson 2: Keeping the Equation BalancedUnit 4Lesson 2: Keep It Balanced
Lesson 3: Balanced MovesUnit 4Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 4: More Balanced MovesUnit 4Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 5: Solving Any Linear EquationUnit 4Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 6: Strategic SolvingUnit 4Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: All, Some, or No Solutions
Lesson 8: How many Solutions?		Unit 4Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?
Lesson 9: When Are They the SameUnit 4Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Topic 3: Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 10: On or Off the Line?Unit 4Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 11: On Both of the Lines
Lesson 12: Systems of Equations
Lesson 13: Solving Systems of Equations		Unit 4 Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?Lesson 10: On Both LinesLesson 11: Make Them Balance [Free lesson]Lesson 12: Line Zapper [Free lesson]Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 14: Solving More Systems 
Lesson 15: Writing Systems of EquationsUnit 4 Lesson 14: Strategic Solving, Part 2 (Print available)
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 16: Posing Problems with Systems of EquationsUnit 4 Lesson 14: Strategic Solving, Part 2 (Print available)

Unit 5: Functions and Volume

Topic 1: Inputs and Outputs 
Lesson 1: Inputs and OutputsUnit 5Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Guess My Rule [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Introduction to FunctionsUnit 5Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Guess My Rule [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Topic 2: Representing and Interpreting Functions 
Lesson 3: Equations of FunctionsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson] Unit 5Lesson 3: Function or Not?Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 4: Tables, Equations, and Graphs of Functions
Lesson 5: More Graphs of Functions		Unit 5Lesson 4: Window FramesLesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6: Even More Graphs of Functions 
Lesson 7: Connecting Representations of FunctionsUnit 5Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: (Print available)Charge!
Topic 3: Linear Functions and Rates of Change
Lesson 8: Linear FunctionsUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a PlaneUnit 3Lesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 9: Linear ModelsUnit 5Lesson 3: PostersLesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Piecewise Linear FunctionsUnit 5Lesson 9: Piecing It Together
Topic 4: Cylinder and Cones 
Lesson 11: Filling Containers 
Lesson 12: How Much Will Fit? 
Lesson 13: The Volume of a CylinderUnit 5Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 11: Cylinders [Free lesson]Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 14: Finding Cylinder DimensionsUnit 5Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 11: Cylinders [Free lesson]Lesson 12: Scaling CylindersLesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 15: The Volume of a ConeUnit 5Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 13: Cones [Free lesson]Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 16: Finding Cone DimensionsUnit 5Lesson 12: Scaling CylindersLesson 13: Cones [Free lesson]Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Topic 5: Dimensions and Spheres 
Lesson 17: Scaling One DimensionUnit 5Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 18: Scaling Two Dimensions 
Lesson 19: Estimating a Hemisphere 
Lesson 20: The Volume of a Sphere
Lesson 21: Cylinders, Cones, and Spheres		Unit 5Lesson 15: SpheresPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic 6: Let’s Put It to Work 
Lesson 22: Volume As a Function of …Unit 5Lesson 15: Spheres

Unit 6: Associations in Data

Topic 1: Does This Predict That? 
Lesson 1: Organizing DataUnit 6 Lesson 1: Click Battle
Lesson 2: Plotting DataUnit 6 Lesson 2: Wing Span
Topic 2: Associations in Numerical Data 
Lesson 3: What a Point in a Scatter Plot MeansUnit 6 Lesson 1: Click BattleLesson 2: Wing SpanLesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 4: Fitting a LineUnit 6 Lesson 4: Dapper Cats [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Fit Fights [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Interpreting SlopesLesson 8: Animal BrainsPractice Day 1 (Print available) [Free lesson]Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 5: Describing Trends in Scatter PlotsUnit 6 Lesson 1: Click BattleLesson 2: Wing SpanLesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City(Print available)Practice Day 1 [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: The Slope of a Fitted LineUnit 6 Lesson 6: Interpreting SlopesLesson 7: Scatter Plot CityPractice Day 1 (Print available) [Free lesson]Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 7: Observing More patterns in Scatter PlotsUnit 6 Lesson 1: Click BattleLesson 2: Wing SpanLesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 8: Analyzing Bivariate DataUnit 6Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Topic 3: Associations in Categorical data 
Lesson 9: Looking for AssociationsUnit 6Lesson 10: Finding Associations [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Federal BudgetsPractice Day 3 (Print available)
Lesson 10: Using Data Displays to Find associationsUnit 6Lesson 10: Finding Associations [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 11: Gone in 30 SecondsUnit 6Lesson 11: Federal Budgets

Unit 7: Exponents and Scientific Notation

Topic 1: Exponent Review 
Lesson 1: Exponent ReviewUnit 7 Lesson 1: Circles [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Combining Exponents
Topic 2: Exponent Rules 
Lesson 2: Multiplying Powers of 10
Lesson 3: Powers of Powers of 10
Lesson 4: Dividing Powers of 10		Unit 7 Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers  
Lesson 5: Negative Exponents with Powers of 10Unit 7 Lesson 5: Zero and Negative ExponentsLesson 6: Write a Rule (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 6: What about Other Bases? 
Lesson 7: Practice with Rational Bases
Lesson 8: Combining Bases 
Topic 3: Scientific Notation 
Lesson 9: Describing Large and Small Numbers using Powers of 10Unit 7 Lesson 7: Scales and Weights
Lesson 10: Representing Large Numbers on the Number Line
Lesson 11: Representing Small Numbers on the Number Line		Unit 7 Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 12: Applications of Arithmetic with Powers of 10Unit 7  Lesson 8: Point ZapperLesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 13: Defining Scientific Notation
Lesson 14: Multiplying, Dividing, and Estimating with Scientific Notation		Unit 7 Lesson 10: Solar System [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Balance the Scales [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 15: Adding and Subtracting with Scientific NotationUnit 7 Lesson 10: Solar System [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Balance the Scales [Free lesson]Lesson 12: City LightsLesson 13: Star Power
Topic 4: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 16: Is a Smartphone Smart Enough to Go to the Moon?Lesson 13: Star Power Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Unit 8: Pythagorean Theorem and Irrational Numbers

Topic 1: Side Lengths and Areas of Squares
Lesson 1: The Areas of Squares and Their Side LengthsUnit 8Lesson 1: Tilted Squares
Lesson 2: Side Lengths and AreasUnit 8Lesson 2: From Squares to RootsLesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 3: Rational and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 4: Square Roots on the Number Line
Lesson 5: Reasoning about Square RootsUnit 8Lesson 2: From Squares to RootsLesson 3: Between SquaresLesson 4: Root Down [Free lesson]Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic 2: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 6: Finding Side Lengths of TrianglesUnit 8Lesson 6: The Pythagorean TheoremLesson 7: Pictures to Prove ItLesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: A Proof of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 8: Finding Unknown Side LengthsUnit 8Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 9: The ConverseUnit 8Lesson 9: Make It Right
Lesson 10: Applications of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8Lesson 10: Taco Truck [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Finding Distances in the Coordinate PlaneUnit 8Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Topic 3: Side Lengths and Volumes of Cubes
Lesson 12: Edge Lengths and Volumes
Lesson 13: Cube Roots		Unit 8Lesson 5: Filling Cubes
Topic 4: Decimal Representation of Rational and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 14: Decimal Representation of Rational and Numbers
Lesson 15: Infinite Decimal expansions		Unit 8Lesson 12: Fractions to DecimalsLesson 13: Decimals to Fractions
Topic 5: Let’s Put It to Work
Lesson 16: When Is the Same Size Not the Same Size?Unit 8Lesson 10: Taco Truck [Free lesson]

Unit 9: Putting It All Together

Topic 1: Tessellations
Lesson 1: Tessellations of the Plane
Lesson 2: Regular Tessellations
Lesson 3: Tessellating Polygons
Topic 2: The Weather
Lesson 4: What Influences Temperature?
Lesson 5: Plotting the Weather
Lesson 6: Using and Interpreting a Mathematical Model

S5-03. Cultivating a joy of learning with Sesame Workshop

A blue graphic with text reading "Math Teacher Lounge" in multicolored letters and "Amplify." at the bottom, with abstract geometric shapes and lines as decoration.

Listen as we chat with Dr. Rosemarie Truglio, senior vice president of curriculum and content for Sesame Workshop! Continuing our theme of math anxiety this season, we sat down with Dr. Truglio to chat about Sesame Street and her thoughts on how to spread a growth mindset to young children and put them on course to academic achievement and long-term success.
 
Listen today and don’t forget to grab your MTL study guide to track your learning and make the most of this episode!

Download Transcript

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (00:00):
Children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):
Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:11):
And I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:12):
Hello, Dan Meyer.

Dan Meyer (00:14):
Great to see you, Bethany. We are on episode three. Can you believe it?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:18):
So, I feel like we’ve just started scratching the surface about math anxiety. We’ve talked to two amazing researchers. We’ve talked about what math anxiety is, how it’s often screened for some of the causes, some of the consequences … I mean, we’ve had some good conversations. Dan, what do you think?

Dan Meyer (00:38):
Definitely, I think that the consequences have only grown more dire in my head. I’m not sure how you feel about the consequences. But, you know, it is enough for me that we ask students to take mathematics for much of their childhoods, to worry about their anxiety, taking that. But to hear about from these researchers about all the different things that correlate with math achievement and math anxiety—talking about future careers, certainly, but even some other, more serious lifelong concerns? That gives me a lot of motivation to continue this study of math anxiety here with you on the show.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:14):
It is really widespread. It has a big impact, not only on students, but on parents, on educators. You know, it’s—

Dan Meyer (01:23):
Multi-generational.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:25):
Yes. And you know, so often when folks think of math anxiety, what I hear them say is, “Oh, yeah, in high school is when math really ramps up. That’s when anxiety starts.” But we know that it starts in our youngest learners. And our research has already backed that up. We know it. I’ve seen it in my classroom. You may have seen it with some students you work with. And let me tell you, it starts young.

Dan Meyer (01:52):
It does start early. Right now, I have a son that’s just started kindergarten, and he seems relatively math-positive, but we’ve known from our interviews on this show and other kinds of experiences that oftentimes, that feeling —that math is for me, and I am for math, and we are all friends — can turn on a single moment. It seems like one teacher says a thing that changes a student’s perception of themselves as a mathematician or of math itself. So I keep waiting with bated breath, hoping not to find that one moment that changes our current open posture towards mathematics. So now it’s time to really dive into some strategies for combating math anxiety.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:34):
To help us out, we’ve called on a pretty exciting guest. I am so excited, Dan Meyer! We are being joined by Dr. Rosemarie Truglio. She is Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop. Sesame Workshop! As in, “Tell me how to get to Sesame Street.” Dan, I have to tell you, I spent many, many hours of my childhood watching Sesame Street. I have to ask, do you have happy Sesame Street memories? Is this part of your formation, Dan Meyer?

Dan Meyer (03:08):
At this point? In my advancing years, and the brain cells that I have left, Sesame Street is really kind of just a vibe in my head. But that vibe is such a pleasant one. One in which like nothing bad could happen. One in which learning is common and normalized and fun. And you just kind of feel at home, constantly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:33):
I don’t know about the “just the vibe” part, because for me, it is visceral. I’m there. I am actually … I mean, I might still be there.

Dan Meyer (03:42):
You could reenact some of the skits?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:44):
. You didn’t watch Sesame Street with your kiddos when they were younger?

Dan Meyer (03:49):
We watched a lot of Elmo. A lot of Elmo. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:52):
Next-generation Sesame Street. Well, I think it’s so perfect that we’re gonna be talking about what Sesame Workshop does to help combat math anxiety and create a positive connection and relationship with mathematics. So I’m really excited to hear what Dr. Truglio and her team have been working on. And here’s our conversation with Dr. Truglio.

Dan Meyer (04:15):
Welcome to the show, Dr. Truglio. It is an honor.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (04:18):
Great to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Dan Meyer (04:20):
You are Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop, which definitely sounds like the coolest job in the world to both four-year-old me and also Now me. Would you just help us help us with some backstory of how you ended up here, and what you do at Sesame Workshop?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (04:38):
Sure. It is a pretty cool job. And I am very fortunate that I’ve been in this position for the past 26 years. So, I am a developmental psychologist, and my job is to help Sesame Workshop identify curriculum needs, so that we could address them in the content that we create on the show and across our various platforms. So, Sesame Street is currently in its 53rd season. And we just, wrapped production for the 54th season, which we’ll debut next fall. And Sesame Street began with an experiment: Can television actually teach children school readiness skills, to have them better prepared for school? Especially those children who did not have access to formal education during the preschool years? And it is what we call a whole-child curriculum, because we’re dealing with all of the school readiness needs. So that that includes the academic needs, their social-emotional needs, and their health needs, as well as what we call these cognitive processing skills—how children learn content. Right? So it’s not just content skills, but how you approach learning and how you actually learn content. So as a grad student, I was fortunate to work at the Center for Research on the Influences of Television on Children. Very special center. It was at the University of Kansas. And my advisors, developmental psychologists, they studied the effects of television on children, both the positive effects and the negative effects. And so part of their research was to actually look at the longterm educational effects of Sesame Street. So I was working with Sesame Street content as a grad student, and then came to New York City. My first job was Assistant Professor at Teachers College, Columbia University. And when this position became available, Director of Research at the time, it was called, I took that job. And so my job was to oversee both the curriculum and the implementation of the curriculum, as well as the research. Because what we know, our co-founder, Joan Ganz Cooney has always said, for Sesame Street to be a successful educational program, production has to work closely with early childhood educators. They are the ones who know the curriculum and, and develop the curriculum goals, as well as the developmental psychologists who actually study how children are paying attention to the content. But more importantly, what are they comprehending from the content? And we all have to work together. Because even though we are the experts, the real experts are the children themselves. So nothing is deemed final until we actually show the children and see what they are learning from the content that we are producing.

Dan Meyer (07:54):
Are you referring to like, test audiences of kids then?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (07:57):
Yeah, I guess you could call it test audiences. I mean, I don’t. I don’t like to call it that because I see them as co-collaborators. I don’t see them as a test audience. Because, as I said, they’re the experts. It’s a collaboration. I mean, they’re the experts. And so I wanna know—

Dan Meyer (08:12):
As collaborators. I got it now. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (08:14):
They help us. So that’s exactly what we tell the children too. So it’s called formative research. You know, we, we do what we call, um, storybook testing, an animated version of a storybook to have some little movement and see are they finding the story engaging, but more importantly, are they picking up on the intended educational lesson that we’re trying to teach in the story. So they are co-collaborators. they’re the ones who are helping us get the story just right for them.

Dan Meyer (08:46):
That’s really exciting, and makes me think about what classes might be like if students were regarded in that kind of lens as well. I just wanna say that my four-year-old self is on this interview as well, and is re-contextualizing all the stuff I saw as a kid. And it just felt like, at the time, you folks turned the camera on and went down to the street and we just had this real natural time. And it’s great to hear about all the intense preparation and co-construction at work and work that went into that time. Yeah,

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (09:12):
It’s about a year preparation from start to finish. From the start of identifying, “What is the educational need? Is it an academic need? Is it a social-emotional need? Is it a health need? Is it a cognitive-processing need?” And then once we have the need identified, we have what we call a curriculum seminar. We bring in the experts who are studying this topic with preschoolers, because we wanna get it, we wanna get it right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:41):
Which, by the way, little behind the scenes: How often do you get to go to set?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (09:46):
So we’re in a production probably about six weeks out of the year. Covid really messed things up. ‘Cause we have to be really—we have very strict Covid protocols, but there is someone on my team—and sometimes we have to, you know, rotate for availability—but there’s always an educator on set.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:06):
Awesome.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:07):
Because even though you stick to the script, questions arise; they wanna make changes; sometimes they have to cut; things are running too long and they have to cut and we gotta figure out where to cut. So there’s always an educator on set.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:19):
But sometimes you go and have lunch, like—.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:21):
Oh, I go, yes. Sometimes I go—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:23):
And just hang out with Big Bird, right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:24):
Sometimes I go hang out with Big Bird. No, those are my friends!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:27):
They are!

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:28):
No, no, I go hang out with them. They’re my friends. Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:32):
When I think about Sesame Street and I think about … like, I can’t help but smile. Because I think I have such fond memories of the characters. I mean, we invited them, my mom invited them, into our home, right? And, you know, now I have a two-year-old and there’s no doubt that I’m gonna introduce him to Sesame Street. And I see how it really does feel like the folks who are doing this work, you and your team, you have a deep respect for children. So it makes sense that you call your test collaborators “collaborators,” right? They’re a part of it. And you know, I love that. And Sesame Street makes me smile. However, I’m like, we’re talking about math anxiety. And it’s so interesting, because as Dan and I were talking about our memories of Sesame Street … you know, it’s like Sesame Street feels like there’s not much anxiety. I mean, there are problems, and there’s problem solving, and it’s not like everything is perfect. But we figure it out. And it’s OK to make mistakes and it’s OK to try again. And a lot of times, we don’t see that in the math classroom—or at least, how folks talk about math. So, how do you all think about anxiety, about how to prevent it? Like, when you’re doing your work, you know that math anxiety is a real thing. But then that’s not translated in these experiences and the relationships with math that you’re building with your viewers.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (12:07):
Yeah, that’s a really good question, because it’s really easy, because our core audience are two- to four-year-olds and they love math. And what’s not to love, right? Because they are figuring the world out as they’re exploring the world. So you said something really interesting, that when you turn on the TV—when you turned on the TV when you were a child, and now you’re a mom of a two-year-old, we wanna make sure that the show represents content that is relevant and meaningful to our target audience. And that comes through with the characters. So all of our characters have very specific personalities, as all children do. And our characters represent all children, in terms of not only personality, but interest and learning styles, ’cause we wanna see—we wanna make sure that children see themselves in these characters. And we have a character who actually loves math. And he’s The Count.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:12):
I’m like, “I know! I know who it is!” I will save you my impression. Although I have done it for my child. But I’ll save our listeners .

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (13:20):
And you know, he’s an adult character. Some of our characters are preschoolers, like Elmo and Abby—they’re preschoolers—and Zoe. But The Count is an adult. He lives in the castle and he just loves numbers. But what’s really important is while we have The Count to explain—not explain to, but to portray to children, cause we don’t explain anything; we show children that math is more than number, right? Math is a pretty wide concept. Which is what I love about math. And the other thing about math is math language. The language of math. ‘Cause when we’re teaching children vocabulary words, we’re also teaching children the concept. Be it a math concept or a science concept or a social-emotional concept. So children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned and it’s unfortunate. It’s picked up by their observations of the adults in their lives, who sometimes say out loud, “I don’t like math,” or “Math is hard,” or even worse, “I’m not good at math.” Or may even label it as math anxiety. That word won’t mean anything to a young child. But it then provides a, whaddya call it, like a negative valence for something that they never felt negative about. Because as they’re growing and interacting with the world, math is all around them. And there’s that sense of awe and wonder and joy, especially as they’re learning and they’re figuring it out. So I think we have to reframe math. Instead of saying “math anxiety,” we have to talk about the joy of math and all the wonderful joys that come with the exploration of these math concepts. Number is great. We know kids love numbers. We know that they love to count and use a big word here: enumerate . Because so many parents don’t make this distinction. They’ll say, “Oh, my child is counting!” Well, there’s rote counting, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, which is important. But then it’s like there’s an item for each number. So it’s one Cheerio, two Cheerios. And then as you point to each number, you are then figuring out what the set is, of the number of objects that you have. And then you get at what I love to call the meaningfulness of math. Right? Number has meaning. And as I said, it’s all part of your everyday activities. It’s part of—it’s in your kitchen; you’re following recipes; you’re measuring; you’re weighing. It’s at bath time, right? You could have the sorting of nested cups and you could, you know, and once again, the math language: big, bigger, biggest. These are relational concepts. You could then count what sinks and what floats, if you’re doing science. And then you could put them in two different buckets, and count. These are the items that sunk and these are the items that float. So math and bath time could be a lot of fun. And then there’s math and music. Music is so rich with math, as you talk about rhythm and tempo and dynamics and pitch and duration. That’s all math.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:57):
The way that you talk about it, it is so rich, right? It is so multi-layered. And you know, I’ve shared on the podcast before: I’ve actually had parents in parent-teacher conferences say that, “Well, I wasn’t good at math either,” or “Math’s really not my thing.” And it’s really—it is, it’s rooted in that fear. And so I do see the way that you’re talking about it; I see that come through in Sesame Street. That, in a lot of ways, it’s reeducating parents, right? Because we hope that our caregivers are sitting next to their kiddo and enjoying it together and having conversations about it later. And there’s a way that parents then are also getting their own sense of what math can be, expanded. And I think there’s such a beauty in that. And I love the way that you talk about that, that you really are looking at, “Well, we wanna celebrate counting and the joyfulness of that. And let’s use math talk, you know, and let’s use these words and try out these ideas.” And it’s not because you’re trying to check some list. But you’re really exploring it and having fun together.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (18:03):
And you’re embracing it. And you mentioned the word “mistake.” So often when it comes to math, if you make a mistake—you make a mistake in counting or, you know, we’re not doing a lot of math equations on Sesame Street, but that’s when people feel like they can’t do math. ‘Cause they made a mistake. And that’s something that we are trying to address on Sesame Street, that it’s OK to make mistakes and you learn through mistakes. But you have to have—and I’m gonna come up with this other phrase now—you have to have what we call a growth mindset. What that means is that I may not be able to do this yet. Like, it’s called “the power of yet.” So we know that learning any concept, it takes time and practice. And how do we have children embrace the process, right? So often we focus on right and wrong. Now, there is right and wrong with math, of course. You know, there’s a right answer and there’s a wrong answer. But how do we focus, not on the end product, but the process through which you are engaging in? So let’s talk about measurement. Let’s talk about measuring the length and the width or the height of something. You might make some mistakes along the way, but you’re processing it. My son used to make all of these little structures for all his little play animals. Well, you know, he would measure and think he got it right. And then when he put the animals in, of course, you know, either the animal was too wide or it was too tall. And he would have to redo it. But you’re not redoing it from scratch, you’re redoing it now from experience. “I realize that if I’m gonna put the giraffe in with the elephant, I’m gonna need something wide as well as high.” Right? For the length, tall. And that’s process. And then, for children, when they figure it out, that “oops” and “aha”—the “aha” was like, “I did it!” And it’s so empowering, you know, giving them agency—not swooping in and saying, “All right, I’ll fix it for you. You know, we got the wide elephant and the tall giraffe and I’ll you know…”. NO! Having them do it. And another fun activity is in what we call informal measurement. And that’s like getting something of an equal size. It could be paper clips or it could be same-size blocks, and then measuring how long something is. So if it’s measured by blocks versus paperclips, you’re gonna have a lot more paperclips than you are blocks. And that kind of comparison is so fascinating for children. And so that’s measurement. And now we have counting. Like, how many paperclips long is something versus how many blocks long is something.

Dan Meyer (21:02):
So checking my understanding here, you’ve talked about how caregivers and other adults can transmit math anxiety by naming it and claiming it for themselves. And you’ve talked about, some really exciting ways that adults can involve students and kids in different kinds of math. I’d love to go upstream with you a little bit and wonder out loud, where does this anxiety come from initially? It’s gotta be more than adult one to kid two talking about anxiety, and transmitting it from human to human. What is the original spring from which all this anxiety flows?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (21:36):
Yeah. I do think it does—a lot of it does come from the adults in their lives. It’s unfortunate, because there is a lot of math talk about it, right? I can’t do math; I’m not good at math. Even when you’re at a restaurant and you get the bill and someone’s figuring out the tip, I can’t tell you how often it’s like, “Pass the bill, because I can’t do math.” Or if you actually then bring gender into it, you know, “Oh, girls aren’t good at math,” and that’s not true. There’s no evidence of that whatsoever, right? So in the younger grades, there’s no gender difference in terms of math ability. What’s also interesting about even socioeconomic status differences, you don’t see a lot of differences between low-income and middle-income children when it comes to math skills. Where you see differences is children’s ability to talk about their mathematical thinking. So if a child doing a math problem is asked, “How did you solve the problem?”, low-income children don’t often have the language to explain their thinking. So that’s something that we did on Sesame Street, where we focused a lot on what we call math talk. So, not just show number and show doing math, but actually narrate and giving the language. Because math literacy is one of the predictors of overall school achievement. So there’s that. They’re getting it from the adults in their lives. They’re getting it, unfortunately, sometimes from their teachers. But I think the anxiety comes from the fear of making mistakes. Because math, there is right and wrong, and always wanting to get the right answer. So that’s why this whole idea of reframing, and saying, “But really, it’s in the process.” So, you know, my son, math is not his strong suit. And I’ve been doing a lot of growth mindset with him as well. And there was a teacher that he had—I think in like 10th or 11th grade—who said, “In a test, I don’t wanna—I’m not even gonna look at the answer. I wanna see the process through which you GOT to this answer. And I’m going to grade the process. So the process could yield a right answer; it could yield a wrong answer. But you’re gonna get graded on the process. Because I wanna see how you are approaching the problem and how you’re thinking it through.” And I think that is a great example of, maybe, to try to reduce math anxiety. Because if you can get people excited about the process through which you’re learning—and that applies to all subjects, it’s not just math!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:36):
I’m like, that applies to life! Right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (24:38):
That applies to life!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:39):
That’s so spot on. Wow. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (24:41):
But I think that there’s so much focus on right and wrong, and not really understanding the value of the process. So on Sesame, we’ve been doing a lot of “oops” and “ahas.” You know, we’re gonna make mistakes, but what’s important is what do you DO when you make a mistake? So there’s a great episode with The Count. A couple of years ago. The Count was counting. Something he does every day. A lot of time, every day, ’cause he’s obsessed with counting and numbers. And he was counting an array of items.

Gladys the Cow (25:17):
I need 10 sandwiches all together.

The Count (25:22):
Well, of course.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:23):
And he made a mistake.

Elmo (25:25):
The Count?

The Count (25:25):
Hmm?

The Count (25:25):
Elmo thinks The Count made a little mistake.

The Count (25:31):
No mistake.

The Count (25:32):
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:33):
And first time ever, did he make a mistake. And he fell apart.

The Count (25:38):
I must make sure that that never happens again. So I shall never count again.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:46):
And that’s an example of showing that, you know, you could get upset when you make a mistake, but what’s important is you gotta come back and you gotta come back to doing what you love. In his case, is counting and letting him know that it was an “oops.” But you learn that mistakes are OK. It’s OK to make a mistake and continue to do what you love.

The Count (26:13):
I must keep trying and you should, too.

Elmo (26:17):
Yeah!

The Count (26:17):
So come, let’s count the carrots together!

Elmo (26:18):
Oh, cool!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:19):
And what a beautiful gift to show kiddos. Show that to kiddos, right? And to the adults. I wanna, you know, really acknowledge it, and say, “Hey look this, it’s OK.” And again, you’re giving them that language. That’s such a gift.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (26:34):
Thank you.

Dan Meyer (26:34):
We spend a lot of time wondering why other subjects don’t seem to suffer from this negative perception. And I think you’ve unlocked a lot of that. You’ve mentioned that there are issues that cut across different subject areas, but I think from my own experience and research and interviews, it seems that in ELA and the social sciences, there’s this aspect where you need to come up with a claim and “how are you seeing this?” And there are multiple defensible claims. And I love how you imported that generous pedagogy over into math with this example of a teacher who says, “You know what? It’s about the process here.” Disassociating answer and process.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (27:09):
And I think the other thing is like, when children are engaged in a project, for parents to point out: “You’re doing math!” Because they don’t realize that they’re doing math. Once again, math is so often equated solely with numbers and mathematical computations. So it was really interesting—the same is true for science. You know, when we’re talking to parents about the use of everyday—like, going to the supermarket or making dinner or bath time, there’s so much math and science in the everyday. And then when you point it out to them—”you’re doing math”—it’s like, “I’m doing math!” Like, you’re setting the table for a family of six: you’re doing math. That’s called one one-to-one correspondence. “I’m doing math: I’m setting the table.” Yeah, but you’re doing math. You can’t set the table because you have to know how many people are gonna be sitting at the table for dinner. You can’t follow a recipe without doing math. You can’t go shopping without doing math. There’s quantity; you gotta figure out how many peppers you gotta buy, or pounds. “I gotta get a bunch of potatoes and I gotta put ’em in the scale. And I have to get two pounds of potatoes.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:29):
So your book Ready for School: A Parent’s Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages Two to Five. First, as a parent of a young toddler, I gotta say it’s such a tool; it’s such a resource. It’s very conversational. And I think about these ideas a lot, both in my work and, you know, just for fun. And yet, even if this wasn’t my chosen field, I still feel like it’s just so accessible. And I wanna flag something.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (29:01):
Thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:01):
Yeah, no. Thank YOU. . I wanna flag something that you said in the math chapter You were talking about the joy of math, and you said when it comes to our children, caregivers: “take pleasure in reading stories together, especially at bedtime, which in many households is a regular part of a child’s routine. But somehow the notion of introducing math concepts to our children seems daunting. In fact, some studies have shown that parents harbor a strong belief that while it’s important and pleasurable to support their child’s reading skills, it’s the responsibility of the schools to take care of teaching math.” And that quote, I highlighted it, I starred it! And I would love for you to say a little more about that, because you have given us already, like, a bounty of ideas that as caregivers we can do with our kiddos or the kiddos in our lives. And we’ve seen that even what they’re learning in school, it may not be the freeing, joyful math language that we hope our kiddos have access to.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (30:05):
Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. Because a lot of our focus is on how children learn through playful experiences, and how they learn through play in particular. And there are so many playing, either a game or even playing ideas—like we talked about building, you know, a house for animals or building a fort. It’s just so filled with math. And I wish I could narrate for every young parent how I would hope that they would talk as they are co-engaged in this activity. And I think … we asked about, with the anxiety, the adults have to find the joy in math first. They have to see the math. That’s the problem. That’s why I hope that my book provides that. I want you to know that you are doing math and I want you to know that your child is what we call a mathematician—or in the science chapter, is a STEMist. Your child is already doing science, technology, engineering, and math. STEM is so integrated. So to acknowledge them—because babies are doing math! Babies know, they can distinguish between a small quantity and something that is a of a larger quantity and want the larger. Right? So, it’s natural for them. And they are taking it all in. I mean, the joy of watching a child just early counting: you know, one, two. And trying to then figure out the meaningfulness of two. It’s not three objects. There are actually two. And for a parent to see the joy in that I think is step one. And then to see the richness and how expansive math is, and that power of, oops, “I made a mistake, don’t freak out,” and then [not] say, “See, I’m not good at math,” but say, “Let me try again. I know I could figure this out.” Right? It’s all of that supportive language and supportive experiences that builds this mindset, a positive mindset. So that you hope that when you get into the higher grades, they’re not walking in and saying, “I can’t, I can’t do math.”

Dan Meyer (32:26):
Yeah. Super helpful. I think you point at one of the grownups—great powers in the world of kids, which is to label. To name things. And you know, you’ve talked about how grownups should ideally downplay some of their negative experiences with mathematics for the sake of the kid, but also to play up the positive stuff that they’re doing as mathematics. Like that right there, that’s math. I would love to know … you have an extremely loud megaphone to communicate messages about math and the world and everything through Sesame Street. One of the biggest that there is—and I just wonder if you could step out and imagine you had a magic wand to wave over the world in which students grow up, play and learn—what would you do like to help students have better associations or less math anxiety? And, you know, learn more about math itself?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (33:19):
If I had a magic wand, I would give everyone what we call a growth mindset that nothing is fixed and everything can be changed if you put the time and effort into the process, and enjoy the process. The joy of learning. I think, you know, it’s really sad. I don’t wanna be sad on your show. But when we were getting ready for the 50th anniversary, I was wondering, “What is gonna be the curriculum focus?” You know, we just came off of literacy and math literacy and social-emotional development. And we talked about the power of play. Playful learning. And building careers. Give children sophisticated play scenarios so that they could explore what they may wanna be when they grow up. Because there’s a concept: If I can see it, I can play it, I can be it. Right? So where are those portrayals? And it’s like, “What are we gonna do for the 50th?” And I had a convening of experts across all disciplines, and brought them into a room. And I said, you know, “What keeps you up at night? Like, what are you worried about?” Sort of like the State of the Union of Child Development. And this is where the sad part is. They talked about how that sense of joy, that sense of wonder, that sense of curiosity, that sense of flexible thinking and creative thinking, was disappearing in early childhood. Wow. If it’s disappearing in early childhood, we are in big, big trouble . ‘Cause I could see it disappearing later on, you know, as you advance in grade. But what do you mean, it’s disappearing in childhood? And then they talked about the fear of making mistakes. And that goes against—it’s the opposite of a growth mindset. And so we have to bring back that sense of joy, wonder, asking those why questions and embracing them. So it’s another problem parents have. They’re fine with the “why” questions until the “whys” become so difficult they don’t have the answers. And then they don’t want the “why” questions, because now they feel like they’re not smart enough to answer their child’s “why” questions. How do I flip that around to be much more positive and say, “You know, I don’t know! But let’s find out together. Let’s explore together; let’s experiment together.” That’s what I mean about the shift in the mindset, that growth mindset. We should not know all of the answers, but where’s the joy of, “Wow, I don’t know, let’s go find out together”? And that applies to math too. But you have to have that open mindset. You have to—you, as yourself, have to have that growth mindset.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:20):
I love that magic wand. I want that magic wand! And I think what—like Dan said about this megaphone, this opportunity to reach so many young people, so many caregivers—what a gift! And I’m so grateful that you took time to be in the lounge with us, and that you have shared these ideas. Because truly, I think, like you said, it’s really our youngest learners, right? How can we create and cultivate these opportunities for our youngest learners to find the joy in mathematics and just in learning, right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (36:54):
Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:55):
So thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Truglio. We are deeply grateful for your insight and for all the work you do. And we continue to invite the world of Sesame Street into our homes.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (37:08):
Thank you. Thank you for allowing us to come into your home, and for you to re-learn with your child as you’re watching Sesame Street. Because it’s very much a parenting show, as it is for a child-directed show, because we are blessed to have these wonderful human cast members who are the stand-ins for parents. And so we are often giving you the language for how to talk about and how to problem-solve together. So thank you.

Dan Meyer (37:43):
Thanks so much for listening to our conversation with Dr. Rosemarie Truglio, Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:51):
Dr. Truglio is also the author of Sesame Street Ready for School, A Parents Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages Two to Five, and we’re gonna make sure we put a link to that in the show notes because it is really, really a rich resource. I’m diving in. I have so many ideas bookmarked that I wanna try out with my kiddo.

Dan Meyer (38:09):
Yeah, it’s really exciting to see—like, for a classroom educator, I just kinda assumed that a lot of math learning happens in the classroom context. That’s my lens. So yeah, I loved reading the book and seeing all the different opportunities for parents for just out there in the world, in front of your house, at the supermarket. All the different opportunities there are for mathematical thinking, and then to think about how to bring that into some of those routines and ideas into the classroom, into formal schooling.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:35):
Exactly. Exactly. Like Dr. Truglio said, the caregivers’s disposition about mathematics matters so deeply. Your teachers’ dispositions about mathematics, their beliefs, the way that you hear people talking about math, that impacts our learners. That impacts—like, as a student, that impacts what you think is possible for yourself. So I love this, re-educating ourselves about what math can look like out in the world, in everyday conversations. I don’t know. I really, really appreciated this conversation with Dr. Truglio.

Dan Meyer (39:12):
Same. Yeah. We’d love to hear what you folks think about the work. the book, her ideas. Definitely get in touch with us. Subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get podcasts. And keep in touch with us on Facebook at Math Teacher Lounge Community, and on Twitter at MTL show.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:27):
Also, if you haven’t already, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge wherever you get your podcast. And if you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rating and a review. It’ll help more listeners find the show. And while you’re at it, let a friend know about this episode, because you enjoyed it; they might enjoy it. On our next episode, we’re gonna be chatting with Dr. Heidi Sabnani and taking a closer look at best practices for coaching teachers to reduce their own math anxiety.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (39:56):
One of the teachers that I worked with had done her student teaching with a teacher who had math anxiety and who never taught math. And so she entered her teaching career never having taught math before or seeing it taught.

Dan Meyer (40:10):
Thanks again for listening, folks.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:12):
Bye.

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What Dr. Rosemarie Truglio says about math

“We all have to work together, because even though we are the experts [on curriculum and education], the real experts are the children themselves.”

– Dr. Rosemarie Truglio

Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content, Sesame Workshop

Meet the guest

Rosemarie T. Truglio, Ph.D. is the Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop. Dr. Truglio is responsible for the development of the interdisciplinary curriculum on which Sesame Street is based and oversees content development across platforms (e.g., television, publishing, toys, home video, and theme park activities).  She also oversees the curriculum development for all new show production, including  Bea’s Block, Mecha Builders, Esme & Roy, Helpsters, and Ghostwriter. Dr. Truglio has written numerous articles in child and developmental psychology journals and presented her work at national and international conferences. Her current book is Ready for School! A Parent’s Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages 2 to 5, published by Running Press (2019).

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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Grade 6

Unit 1: Area and Surface Area

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Area and Surface AreaUnit 1: Area and Surface Area
Unit 7: Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 1: The TangramUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 2: Exploring the TangramUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Sub-Unit 1 : Area of Special Polygons
Lesson 3: Tilting the PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 4: Compositing and Rearranging to Determine AreaUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 5: Reasoning to Determine AreaUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 6: ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 7: Bases and Heights of ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 8: Bases and Heights of ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 9: From Parallelograms to TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 10: Bases and Heights of TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 11: Formula for the Area of a TriangleUnit 1
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 12: From Triangles to TrapezoidsUnit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 13: PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 8: Pile of Polygons Practice Day 1 (Print available)

Unit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Sub-Unit 2: Nets and Surface Area
Lesson 14: What is Surface Area?Unit 1
Lesson 9: Renata’s Stickers
Lesson 15: Nets and Surface Area of Rectangular PrismsUnit 1
Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 11:Nothing but Nets(Print available)
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 16: Nets and Surface Area of PrismsUnit 1
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 17: Constructing a RhombicuboctahedronUnit 1
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 18: Simplifying Expressions for Squares and CubesUnit 1
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 19: Simplifying Expressions Even More Using ExponentsUnit 1
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 20: Designing a Suspended Tent 

Unit 2: Introducing Ratios

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Introducing RatiosUnit 2: Introducing Ratios
Lesson 1: Fermi Problems 
Sub-Unit 1: What are Ratios?
Lesson 2: Introducing Ratios and Ratio LanguageUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3: Representing Ratios with DiagramsUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3:Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 4: A Recipe for Purple Oobleck 
Lesson 5: Kapa Dyes 
Sub-Unit 2:Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 6: Defining Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab (Print available)
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 7: Representing Equivalent Ratios with Tables 
Lesson 8: Reasoning with Multiplication and Division (optional) 
Lesson 9: Common Factors 
Lesson 10: Common Multiples 
Lesson 11: Navigating a Table of Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 12: Tables and Double Number Line DiagramsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 13: Tempo and Double Number LinesUnit 2
Lesson 5: Balancing Act
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Solving Ratio Problems 
Lesson 14: Solving Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 10: Balloons
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Lesson 15: Part-Part-Whole RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 12 Mixing Paint, Part 2
Lesson 13: City Planning
Lesson 16: Comparing Ratios 
Lesson 17: More Comparing and Solving 
Lesson 18: Measuring with Different-Sized Units 
Lesson 20: More Fermi Problems 

Unit 3: Rates and Percentages

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Rates and PercentagesUnit 2: Introducing Ratios
Unit 3: Unit Rates and percentages
Lesson 1: Choosing Representation for Student CouncilLaunch Lesson
Sub-Unit 1: Rates
Lesson 2: How Much for One?Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 3: Constant Speed  
Lesson 4: Comparing SpeedsUnit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Interpreting RatesUnit 3
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 6: Comparing Rates 
Lesson 7: Solving Rate ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson 7: More Soft Serve
Sub-Unit 2: Percentages
Lesson 8: What Are percentages?Unit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 9: Determining Percentages 
Lesson 10: Benchmark PercentagesUnit 3
Lesson 7: Lucky Duckies
Lesson 11: Finding This Percent of ThatUnit 3
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 12: This Percent of What 
Lesson 13: Solving Percentage ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson: 10: What’s Missing (Print available)
Lesson: 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson: 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson: 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 14: If Our Class Were the World 
Lesson 15: Voting for a School Mascot 

Unit 4: Dividing Fractions

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Lesson 1: Seeing Fractions
Sub-Unit 1: Interpreting Division Scenarios
Lesson 3: Relating Multiplication and Division 
Lesson 4: Size of Divisor and Size of QuotientUnit 4
Lesson 1: Cookie Cutter
Sub-Unit 2: Division with Fractions
Lesson 5: How Many GroupsUnit 4
Lesson 3: Flour Planner
Lesson 4: Flower Planters
Lesson 4: Garden Bricks (Print available) 
Lesson 6: Using Diagrams to Find the Number of GroupsUnit 4
Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap
Lesson 7: Dividing with Common DenominatorsUnit 4
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap
Lesson 8: How Much in Each Group? (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: How Much in Each Group? (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 10: Dividing by Unit and Non-Unit FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 7: Break It Down
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: Division Challenges
Lesson 11: Using an Algorithm to Divide FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 9: Division Challenges Practice Day
Lesson 13: Fractional LengthsUnit 4
Lesson 12: Puzzling 
Lesson 14: Area with Fractional LengthsUnit 4
Lesson 9: Puzzling Area (Print available)
Lesson 15: Volume of PrismsUnit 4
Lesson 13: Volume Challenges (Print available)
Lesson 16: Fish Tanks Inside of Fish TanksUnit 4
Lesson 10: Swap Meet
Lesson 17: Now, Where Was That Bus?Unit 4
Lesson 10: Capstone

Unit 5: Arithmetic in Base Ten

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Lesson 1: Precision and World Records 
Sub-Unit 1: Adding and Subtracting Decimals 
Lesson 2: Speaking of Decimals…Unit 5
Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals (Print available)
Lesson 3: Adding and Subtracting DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 3: Fruit by the Pound
Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 4: X Games Medal ResultsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Decimal Diagrams
Sub-Unit 2: Multiplying Decimals
Lesson 5: Decimal Points in ProductsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Methods for Multiplying DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods (Print available)
Lesson 7: Using Diagrams to Represent MultiplicationUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 8: Calculating Products of DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Sub-Unit 3: Dividing Decimals
Lesson 9: Exploring Division 
Lesson 10: Using Long DivisionUnit 5
Lesson 8: Division Diagrams
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 11: Dividing Numbers That Result in DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 12: Using Related Expressions to Divide with Decimals 
Lesson 13: Dividing Multi-Digit DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 14: The So-called World’s Littlest Skyscraper

Unit 6: Expressions and Equations

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Expressions and EquationsUnit 6: Expressions and Equations
Lesson 1: Detecting Counterfeit Coins
Sub-Unit 1: Expressions and Equations in One Variable
Lesson 2: Write Expressions Where Letters Stand for Numbers 
Lesson 3: Tape Diagrams and Equations 
Lesson 4: Truth and EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 5: Staying in BalanceUnit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Staying in Balance with Variables 
Lesson 7: Practice Solving EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 4: Hanging It Up
Lesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 8: A New Way to Interpret a over bUnit 6
Lesson 4: Hanging It Up
Lesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 9: Revisiting Percentages
Sub-Unit 2: Equivalent Expressions
Lesson 10: Equal and Equivalent (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Vari-apples
Lesson 11: Equal and Equivalent (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Vari-apples
Lesson 12: The Distributive Property, Part 1Unit 6
Lesson 8: Products and Sums
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Lesson 13: The Distributive Property, Part 2Unit 6
Lesson 8: Products and Sums
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Lesson 14: Meaning of ExponentsUnit 6
Lesson 10: Powers
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 15: Evaluating Expressions with ExponentsUnit 6
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 16: Analyzing Exponential Expressions and EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Sub-Unit 3: Relationships Between Quantities
Lesson 17: Two Related Quantities, Part 1Unit 6
Lesson 13: Turtles All the Way
Lesson 14: Representing Relationships
Lesson 15: Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 18: Two Related Quantitites, Part 2Unit 6
Lesson 13: Turtles All the Way
Lesson 14: Representing Relationships
Lesson 15: Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 19: Creating a Class Mobile 

Unit 7: Rational Numbers

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Rational Numbers
Unit 1: Area and Surface Area
Unit 7: Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 1: How Far? Which Way?
Sub-unit 1: Negative Numbers and Absolute Value
Lesson 2: Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 1: Can You Dig In
Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 3: Points on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 4: Comparing IntegersUnit 7
Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available)
Lesson 5: Comparing and Ordering Rational NumbersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available)
Lesson 6: Using Negative Numbers to Make Sense of Contexts>Unit 7
Lesson 4: Sub-Zero
Lesson 7: Absolute Value of NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Lesson 8: Comparing Numbers and Distance from ZeroUnit 7
Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Sub-Unit 2: Inequalities
Lesson 9: Writing Inequalities 
Lesson 10: Graphing Inequalities 
Lesson 11: Solutions to One or More InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel
Lesson 7: Comparing Weights
Lesson 8: Shira´s Solutions
Lesson 12: Interpreting InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel
Lesson 7: Comparing Weights
Lesson 8: Shira´s Solutions
Sub-Unit 3: The Coordinate Plane
Lesson 13: Extending the Coordinate Plane 
Lesson 14: Points on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 9: Sand Dollar Search
Lesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 15: Interpreting Points on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 9: Sand Dollar Search
Lesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 16: Distances on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 17: Shapes on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms

Unit 7
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 18: Lost and Found Puzzles 
Lesson 19: Drawing on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)

Unit 8: Data Sets and Distributions

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Data Sets and DistributionsUnit 8: Describing Data
Lesson 1: Plausible Variation or New Species?
Sub-Unit 1: Statistical Questions and Representing Data
Lesson 2: Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 1: Screen Time
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Interpreting Dot PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 4: USing Dot Plots to Answer Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 5: Interpreting HistogramsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Lesson 6: Using Histograms to Answer Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Lesson 7: Describing Distributions on HistogramsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Measures of Center
Lesson 8: Mean as a Fair ShareUnit 8
Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 9: Mean as a Balance PointUnit 8
Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 10: MedianUnit 8
Lesson 11: Toy Cars
Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 11: Comparing Mean and MedianUnit 8
Lesson 12: In the News
Sub-Unit 3: Measures of Variability
Lesson 12: Describing Variability 
Lesson 13: Variability and MAD 
Lesson 14: Variability and IQRUnit 8
Lesson 13: Pumpkin Patch
Lesson 15: Box PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 16: Comparing MAD and IQR 
Lesson 17: Asian Elephant Populations 

Grade 7

Unit 1: Scale Drawings

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Scale DrawingsUnit 1: Scale Drawings
Unit 3: Measuring Circles
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: Scale-y Shapes 
Sub-Unit 1: Scaled Copies 
Lesson 2: What are Scaled Copies?Unit 1
Lesson 1: Scaling Machines
Lesson 3: Corresponding Parts and Scale FactorsUnit 1
Lesson 2: Scaling Robots 
Unit 3
Lesson 1: Toothpicks
Lesson 4: Making Scaled CopiesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Make It Scale 
Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 5: The Size of the Scale FactorUnit 1
Lesson 4: Tiles
Lesson 6: Scaling and AreaUnit 1
Lesson 5: Tiles Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Scale Drawings 
Lesson 7: Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available)
Lesson 8: Creating Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Lesson 9: Scale Drawings and Maps 
Lesson 10: Changing Scale in Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Lesson 11: Scales without Units 
Lesson 12: Units in Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)Practice Day (Print available)
Lesson 13: Build Your Brand 

Unit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Introducing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: Making Music 
Sub-Unit 1: Representing Proportional Relationships with Tables and Equations
Lesson 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships with TablesUnit 2
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 3: More About Constant of ProportionalityUnit 2
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)

Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 4: Comparing Relationships with TablesUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 5: Proportional Relationships and EquationsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 6: Speed and Equations 
Lesson 7: Two Equations for Each RelationshipUnit 2
Lesson 4: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 5: Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 8: Using Equations to Solve ProblemsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 9: Comparing Relationships with EquationsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 10: Solving Problems About Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Sub-Unit 2: Representing Proportional Relationships with Graphs 
Lesson 11: Introducing Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 12: Interpreting Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 13: Using Graphs to Compare RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 14: Two Graphs for Each RelationshipUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 15: Four Ways to Tell One Story (Part 1) 
Lesson 16: Four Ways to Tell One Story (Part 2) 
Lesson 17: Welcoming Committee 

Unit 3: Measuring Circles

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Measuring CirclesUnit 3: Measuring Circles
Lesson 1: The Wandering Goat 
Sub-unit 1: Circumference of a Circle 
Lesson 2: Exploring CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is it a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 3: How Well Can You Measure? 
Lesson 4: Exploring CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 5: Understanding π 
Lesson 6: Applying CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 7: Circumference and Wheels 
Sub-Unit 2: Area of a Circle
Lesson 8: Exploring the Area of a CircleUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 8: Area Challenges
Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 9: Relating Area to CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 8: Area Challenges
Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 10: Applying Area to CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 6:Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 11: Distinguishing Circumference and AreaUnit 3
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 12: Capturing Space 

Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 4: PercentagesUnit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: (Re)Presenting the United States 
Lesson 2: Understanding Percentages and Decimals 
Lesson 3: Percent Increase and DecreaseUnit 4Lesson 4: More or Less
Lesson 4: Determining 100%Unit 4Lesson 6: 100% (Print available)
Lesson 5: Determining Percent ChangeUnit 4Lesson 7: Percent Machines
Lesson 6: Percent Increase and Decrease With EquationsUnit 4Lesson 5: All the Equations
Lesson 7: Using Equations to Solve Percent ProblemsUnit 4Lesson 5: All the Equations
Sub-Unit 2: Applying Percentages 
Lesson 8: Tax and TipUnit 4
Lesson 8: Tax and Tip
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems
Lesson 9: Percent ContextsUnit 4
Lesson 8: Tax and Tip
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems
Lesson 10: Determining the PercentageUnit 4
Lesson 4: More and Less
Lesson 11: Measurement ErrorUnit 4
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Error IntervalsUnit 4
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 13: Writing Better Headlines 

Unit 5: Rational Number Arithmetic

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 5: Rational Number ArithmeticUnit 5: Rational Number Artithmetics
Lesson 1: Target: Zero 
Sub-Unit 1: Adding and Subtracting Rational Numbers 
Lesson 2: Interpreting Negative Numbers
Lesson 3: Changing TemperaturesUnit 5
Lesson 2: More Floats and Anchors
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 4: Adding Rational Numbers 
Lesson 5: Money and Debts 
Lesson 6: Representing SubtractionUnit 5
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 7: Subtracting Rational Numbers (Part 1)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 8: Subtracting Rational Numbers (Part 2)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 9: Adding and Subtracting Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Multiplying and Dividing Rational Numbers 
Lesson 10: Position, Speed, and TimeUnit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 11: Multiplying Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 12: Multiply!Unit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 13: Dividing Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 7: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 14: Negative Rates 
Sub-Unit 3: Four Operations with Rational Numbers 
Lesson 15: Expressions with Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 16: Say It With Decimals 
Lesson 17: Solving Problems with Rational NumbersLesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 12: Arctic Ice Sea (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 18: Solving Equations With Rational Numbers 
Lesson 19: Representing Contexts With Equations 
Lesson 20: Summiting Everest 

Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and InequalitiesUnit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities
Lesson 1: Keeping the Balance 
Lesson 2: Balanced and UnbalancedUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 2: Balanced and UnbalancedUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 3: Reasoning About Solving Equations (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 4: Reasoning About Solving Equations (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 5: Dealing with Negative NumbersUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 5: Dealing with Negative NumbersUnit 6
Lesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep
Lesson 6: Two Ways to Solve One EquationUnit 6
Lesson 4: Seeing Struction (Print available)
Lesson 7: Practice Solving EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Solving Real-World Problems Using Two-Step Equations 
Lesson 8: Reasoning With Tape DiagramsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 9: Reasoning About Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 10: Reasoning About Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 11: Using Equations to Solve ProblemsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available) 
Lesson 12: Solving Percent Problems in New WaysUnit 6
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)

Unit 4
Lesson 7: Percent MachinesPractice Day 1 (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Inequalities 
Lesson 13: Reintroducing InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 14: Solving InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 5: Balancing Moves
Lesson 6: Balancing Equations
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Lesson 15: Finding Solutions to Inequalities in ContextUnit 6
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 16: Efficiently Solving InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 10: Collect the Squares
Lesson 17: Interpreting InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Lesson 14: Unbalanced Hangers
Lesson 15: Budgeting (Print available)
Lesson 18: Modeling With Inequalities 
Sub-Unit 4: Equivalent Expressions 
Lesson 19: Subtraction in Equivalent Expressions 

Unit 7: Angles, Triangles, and Prisms

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Angles, Triangles, and PrismsUnit 7: Angles, Triangles, and Prisms
Lesson 1: Shaping Up 
Sub-Unit 1: Angle Relationships 
Lesson 2: Relationships of AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 1: Pinwheels
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 3: Supplementary and Complementary Angles (Part 1) 
Lesson 4: Supplementary and Complementary Angles (Part 2) 
Lesson 5: Vertical AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Using Equations to Solve for Unknown AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Like Clockwork 
Sub-Unit 2: Drawing Polygons with Given Conditions 
Lesson 8: Building Polygons (Part 1)Unit 7
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 9: Building Polygons (Part 2)Unit 7
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 10: Triangles with Three Common MeasuresUnit 7
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 11: Drawing Triangles (Part 1)Unit 7
Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 7: More Than One
Lesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Drawing Triangles (Part 2)Unit 7
Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 7: More Than One
Lesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Solid Geometry
Lesson 13: Slicing SolidsUnit 7
Lesson 9: Slicing Solids
Lesson 14: Volume of Right PrismsUnit 7
Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 15: Decomposing Bases for AreasUnit 7
Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 16: Surface Area of Right PrismsUnit 7
Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print available)
Lesson 17: Distinguishing Volume and Surface Area
Lesson 18: Applying Volume and Surface AreaUnit 7
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities

Unit 8: Probability and Sampling

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Probability and SamplingUnit 8: Probability and Sampling
Lesson 1: The Invention of Fairness 
Lesson 2: Chance Experiments 
Lesson 3: What are Probabilities?Unit 8
Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available)
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson
Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 4: Estimating Probabilities Through Repeated ExperimentsUnit 8
Lesson 4: Spin Class
Lesson 5: Is It Fair?
Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 5: Code Breaking (Part 1)
Lesson 6: Code Breaking (Part 2)
Sub-Unit 2: Probabilities of Multi-Step Events
Lesson 7: Keeping Track of All Possible OutcomesUnit 8
Lesson 4: Spin Class
Lesson 5: Is it Fair?
Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 8: Experiments With Multi-Step Events  
Lesson 9: Simulating Multi-Step Events 
Lesson 10: Designing Simulations 
Sub-Unit 3:Sampling
Lesson 11: Comparing Two PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Larger PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 13: What Makes a Good Sample?Unit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 14: Sampling in a Fair WayUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 15: Estimating Population Measures of CenterUnit 8
Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train?
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 16: Estimating Population ProportionsUnit 8
Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train?
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 17: Presentation of Findings 

Grade 8

Unit 1: Rigid Transformations and Congruence

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Rigid Transformations and CongruenceUnit 1: Rigid Transformations and Congruence
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Lesson 1: Tessellations 
Sub-Unit 1: Rigid Transformations 
Lesson 2: Moving in the PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers
Lesson 3: Symmetry and Reflection 
Lesson 4: Grid MovesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Transformation Golf
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated

Unit 3
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 5: Making the MovesUnit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers
Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Coordinate Moves (Part 1)Unit 1
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 7: Coordinate Moves (Part 2)Unit 1
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Describing TransformationsUnit 1
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Connecting the Dots
Sub-Unit 2: Rigid Transformations and Congruence 
Lesson 9: No Bending or StretchingUnit 1
Lesson 7: No Bending, No Stretching
Lesson 10: What is the Same?Unit 1
Lesson 7: Are They the Same?
Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?
Lesson 11: Congruent PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 7: Are They the Same?
Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?
Sub-Unit 4: Angles in a Triangle 
Lesson 13: Line Moves 
Lesson 14: Rotation Patterns 
Lesson 15: Alternate Interior AnglesUnit 1 
Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 16: Adding the Angles in a TriangleUnit 1
Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 17: Parallel Lines and the Angles in a TriangleUnit 1 
Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Lesson 18: Creating a Border Pattern Using Transformations 

Unit 2: Dilations, Similarity, and Introducing Slope

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Dilations and SimilarityUnit 2: Dilations and Similarity
Lesson 1: Projecting and Scaling 
Sub-Unit 1: Dilations
Lesson 2: Circular GridUnit 2
Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Lesson 3: Dilations on a Plane 
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Square GridUnit 2
Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Lesson 5: Dilations with CoordinatesUnit 2
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Sub-Unit 2: Similiarity
Lesson 6: SimilarityUnit 2
Lesson 5: Transformations Golf with Dilations
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available)
Lesson 7: Similar PolygonsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available)
Lesson 8: Similar TrianglesUnit 2
Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?
Lesson 8: Shadows
Lesson 9: Ratios of Side Lengths in Similar Triangles
Lesson 12: Optical Illusions 

Unit 3: Linear Relationships

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear RelationshipsUnit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Unit 4: Linear Equations and Linear Systems
Unit 5: Functions and Volume
Lesson 1: Visual Patterns 
Sub-Unit 1: Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 2: Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 3: Understanding Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 4: Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 2: Water Tank 

Unit 5
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 5: Representing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials 
Unit 5
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6: Comparing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Sub-Unit 2: Linear Relationships
Lesson 7: Introduction to Linear RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups

Unit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 8: Comparing Linear Relationships 
Lesson 9: More Linear RelationshipsUnit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 10: Representations of Linear RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 11: Writing Equations for Lines Using Two Points 
Lesson 12: Translating y = mx + bUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 13: Slopes Don’t Have to be PositiveUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 10: Calculating SlopeUnit 3
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 14: Writing Equations for Lines Using Two Points, Revisited 
Lesson 11: Equations of All Kinds of LinesUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Sub-Unit 3: Linear Equations 
Lesson 16: Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 10: Solutions

 Unit 4
Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 17: More Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3 
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 10: Solutions
Lesson 18: Coordinating Linear Relationships 
Lesson 19: Rogue Planes 

Unit 4: Linear Equations and Linear Systems

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 4: Linear Equations and Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4: Linear Equations and Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 1: Number PuzzlesUnit 4
Lesson 1: Number machines
Sub-Unit 1: Linear Equations in One Variable 
Lesson 2: Writing Expressions and Equations
Lesson 3: Keeping the BalanceUnit 4
Lesson 2: Keep It Balanced
Lesson 4: Balanced Moves (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 5: Balanced Moves (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 6: Solving Any Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: How Many Solutions? (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 8: How Many Solutions? (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 9: Strategic Solving 
Lesson 10: When Are They the SameUnit 4
Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Sub-Unit 2: Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 11: On or Off the Line?Unit 4
Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?
Lesson 12: On Both of the LinesUnit 4
Lesson 10: On Both Lines
Lesson 13: Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 11: Make Them Balance
Lesson 14: Solving Systems of Equations (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 14: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 15: Solving Systems of Equations (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 12: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 16: Writing Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 14: Strategic Solving, Part 2 (Print available)
Lesson 17: Pay Gaps 

Unit 5: Functions and Volume

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 5: Functions and VolumeUnit 2: Dilations, Similarity, and Introducing Slope
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Unit 5: Functions and Volume
Lesson 1: Pick a Pitch 
Sub-Unit 1: Representing and Interpreting Functions 
Lesson 2: Introduction to FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Guess My Rule
Lesson 3: Equations of FunctionsUnit 3
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 4: Graphs of Functions (Part 1)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 5: Graphs of Functions (Part 2)Unit 5
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare
Lesson 6: Graphs of Functions (Part 3)Unit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Connecting Representations of FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 8: Comparing Linear Functions 
Lesson 9: Modeling with Linear Functions 
Lesson 10: Piecewise Linear FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Piecing It Together
Sub-Unit 2: Cylinder, Cones, and Spheres 
Lesson 11: Filling Containers 
Lesson 12: The Volume of a CylinderUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 11: Cylinders
Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 13: Determining Dimensions of CylindersUnit 5
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 14: The Volume of a ConeUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 13: Cones
Lesson 15: Determining Dimensions of ConesUnit 5
Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 13: Cones
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 16: Estimating a Hemisphere 
Lesson 17: The Volume of a SphereUnit 5
Lesson 15: Spheres
Lesson 18: Cylinders, Cones and SpheresUnit 5
Lesson 15: Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 19: Scaling One Dimension 
Lesson 20: Scaling Two Dimensions 
Lesson 21: Packing Spheres 

Unit 6: Exponents and Scientific Notation

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Exponents and Scientific NotationUnit 7: Exponents and Scienctific Notation
Lesson 1: Create a Sierpinski Triangle 
Sub-Unit 1: Exponent Rules 
Lesson 2: Reviewing ExponentsUnit 7
 Lesson 1: Circles
Lesson 2: Combining Exponents
Lesson 3: Multiplying PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers
Lesson 4: Dividing PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers
Lesson 5: Negative ExponentsUnit 7 
Lesson 5: Zero and Negative Exponents
Lesson 6: Powers of PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 7: Different Bases, Same Exponent 
Lesson 8: Practice with Rational BasesUnit 7
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Scientific Notation 
Lesson 9: Representing Large Numbers on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 10: Representing Small Numbers on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 11: Applications of Arthithmetic with Powers of 10Unit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 12: Definition of Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 10: Solar System
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 13: Multiplying, Dividing, and Estimating with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 14: Adding and Subtracting with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 12: City Lights
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 15: Is a Smartphone Smart Enough to Go to the Moon? 

Unit 7: Irrationals and the Pythagorean Theorem

Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Irrationals and the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8: The Pythagorean Theorem and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 1: Sliced Bread
Sub-Unit 1: Rational and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 2: The Square RootUnit 8
Lesson 2: From Squares to Roots
Lesson 3: The Ares of Squares and Their Side LengthsUnit 8
Lesson 1: Tilted Squares
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Estimating Square RootsUnit 8
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Root Down
Lesson 5: The Cube RootUnit 8
Lesson 5: Filling Cubes
Lesson 6: Rational and Irrational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 14: Hit the Target
Lesson 7: Decimal Representations of Rational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 12: Fractions to Decimals
Lesson 8: Converting Repeating Decimals Into FractionsUnit 8
Lesson 13: Decimals to Fractions
Sub-Unit 2: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 9: Observing the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 6: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 10: Proving the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 11: Determining Unknown Side LengthsUnit 8
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle
Lesson 12: Converse of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 9: Make it Right
Lesson 13: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 1)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 13: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 1)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 14: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 2)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 15: Applications of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle
Lesson 10: Taco Truck
Lesson 16: Pythagorean Triples

Unit 8: Pythagorean Theorem and Irrational Numbers

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Associations in DataUnit 6: Associations in Data
Lesson 1: Creating a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 1: Click Battle
Sub-Unit 1: Associations in Data
Lesson 2: Interpreting Points on a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 3: Robots
Lesson 3: Observing Patterns in a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 4: Fitting a Line to DataUnit 6
Lesson 4: Dapper Cats
Lesson 5: Fit Fights
Lesson 5: Using a Linear ModelUnit 6
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slope and y-interceptUnit 6
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 7: Analyzing Bivariate DataUnit 6
Lesson 8: Animal Brains
Lesson 8: Looking for AssociationsUnit 6
Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Lesson 9: Using Data Displays to Find AssociationsUnit 6
Lesson 10: Finding Associations
Lesson 11: Federal Budgets

First-of-its-kind voice-powered assessment to help educators understand and accelerate the literacy development of remote learners

BROOKLYN, New York—August 25, 2020—Amplify, a publisher of next-generation curriculum and assessment programs, today announced the release of a voice-enabled reading assessment for grades 1–6, created in collaboration with Dublin-based SoapBox Labs, which develops accuracy and privacy driven voice technology for children. Text Reading Online is the first literacy assessment of its kind to enable remote evaluation of oral reading fluency, accuracy, and comprehension—critical indicators of reading development for young readers.

“Given the realities of teaching and learning in a pandemic, educators are seeking approaches to assessing a child’s independent reading when they cannot be together in person,” said Larry Berger, chief executive officer at Amplify. “We are pleased to offer Text Reading Online as a part of the overall mCLASS literacy suite to help educators assess their students’ reading development remotely, including the accurate identification of learning loss and how best to address it, this year.”

Reading accuracy, fluency, and comprehension are important indicators of whether students are making the transition from learning to read to reading to learn. Like most early literacy assessments, however, evaluation of oral reading fluency typically requires direct in-person observation of students by trained educators. By enabling educators to understand and evaluate fluency, accuracy, and comprehension development, even in a remote setting, Text Reading Online can help educators tailor instruction and avoid reading loss during a critical developmental stage.

To perform the assessment, students read two texts aloud: the first text is at the student’s grade level, the second is adapted based on the student’s performance on the initial text. Students then answer a set of text-dependent comprehension questions to evaluate their degree of understanding. Data from the assessment, including reading rate and specific error types, provides educators with near real-time feedback, which they can use to identify areas of focus and cater lessons to each child’s needs.

Named one of Europe’s hottest startups by Wired UK in 2019, SoapBox Labs was founded by Dr. Patricia Scanlon, whose popular TEDx talk explains the ways in which technology can “transform a child’s reading journey.” In 2018, Scanlon was named to the Forbes list of Top 50 Women in Tech globally.

“This is about making educators’ lives just a little bit easier by providing them with tech-enabled tools that allow them to engage in accurate and private literacy assessment for all their students,” said SoapBox Labs CEO Dr. Patricia Scanlon. “But the implications are even more far reaching. The moment for voice tech in learning has arrived, and we view our work as essential in the development of a more inclusive, equitable education future.”

Text Reading Online will be available for free to all of Amplify’s mCLASS customers during the 2020-2021 school year. Visit the Text Reading Online page on Amplify.com to learn more.

***

About Amplify
A pioneer in K–12 education since 2000, Amplify is leading the way in next-generation curriculum and assessment. Our captivating core and supplemental programs in ELA, math, and science engage all students in rigorous learning and inspire them to think deeply, creatively, and for themselves. Our formative assessment products turn data into practical instructional support to help all students build a strong foundation in early reading and math. All of our programs provide teachers with powerful tools that help them understand and respond to the needs of every student. Today, Amplify serves five million students in all 50 states. For more information, visit amplify.com.

About SoapBox Labs
SoapBox Labs develops award-winning voice technology for kids modeled on kids’ speech, language, and behaviors. Proprietary and built from the ground up, our accurate, private, and age-appropriate voice technology powers immersive play and learning experiences, including literacy and language learning tools, for children ages 2 to 12 years old. To view demos, download reports and white papers, or learn more about how our technology powers third party education and toy companies, go to www.SoapBoxLabs.com.

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Amplify’s research-backed, curiosity-driven math program receives all-green scores across all three EdReport gateways

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Slow but steady progress: new Amplify data show why middle-of-year literacy screening matters 

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Amplify Science – Oklahoma

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Amplify Science – Oklahoma

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Inspiring the next generation of Oklahoma scientists, engineers, and curious citizens

Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

A powerful partnership

Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.

Our Instructional Model

The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:

DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit, from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.

TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.

READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation, and importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.

WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.

VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using modeling tools to craft visualizations of their thinking— just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.

Resources to support your review

Remote and hybrid learning supports

Oklahoma remote and hybrid overview video

Amplify has launched a new remote learning solution called Amplify Science@Home. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science@Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units. 

Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August.   

Amplify Science@Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @Home Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @Home unit includes:

  • Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
  • Overviews to send home to families.

Student materials are available in two formats:

  • @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
  • Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.

Download the Remote and hybrid learning guide.

What’s included

Flexible resources that work seamlessly together

Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.

Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:

  • Record data
  • Reflect on ideas from texts and investigations
  • Construct explanations and arguments

Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and modeling tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:

  • Conduct hands-on investigations
  • Engage in active reading and writing activities
  • Participate in discussions
  • Record observations
  • Craft end-of-unit scientific arguments

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • Classroom Slides
  • Detailed lesson plans
  • Unit and chapter overview documentation
  • Differentiation strategies
  • Standards alignments
  • In-context professional development

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:

  • Consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials
  • Print classroom display materials
  • Premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc.)

Scope and sequence

GRADE
UNIT
Kindergarten
  • Needs of Plants and Animals
  • Pushes and Pulls
  • Sunlight and Water
Grade 1 
  • Animal and Plant Defenses
  • Light and Sound
  • Spinning Earth
Grade 2 
  • Plant and Animal Relationships
  • Properties of Materials
  • Changing Landforms
Grade 3 
  • Balancing Forces
  • Inheritance and Traits
  • Environments and Survival
  • Weather and Climate
Grade 4 
  • Energy Conversions
  • Vision and Light
  • Earth’s Features
  • Waves, Energy, and Information
Grade 5 
  • Patterns of Earth and Sky
  • Modeling Matter
  • The Earth System
  • Ecosystem Restoration
Grade
Units

Grade 6
  • Launch: Microbiome
  • Metabolism
  • Metabolism Engineering Internship
  • Thermal Energy
  • Plate Motion
  • Plate Motion Engineering Internship
  • Rock Transformations
  • Weather Patterns
  • Ocean, Atmosphere, and Climate

Grade 7
  • Launch: Harnessing Human Energy
  • Phase Change
  • Phase Change Engineering Internship
  • Magnetic Fields
  • Earth’s Changing Climate
  • Earth’s Changing Climate Engineering Internship
  • Chemical Reactions
  • Populations and Resources
  • Matter and Energy in Ecosystems

Grade 8
  • Launch: Geology on Mars
  • Earth, Moon, and Sun
  • Light Waves
  • Force and Motion
  • Force and Motion Engineering Internship
  • Traits and Reproduction
  • Natural Selection
  • Natural Selection Engineering Internship
  • Evolutionary History

Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science coverage

Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science (OASS) are closely aligned to the NGSS at K-8. The guidance below is meant to provide support for integrating additional activities that support full coverage of the OASS. You can view the full K–8 OASS correlation here.

Organized by grade level, each section below will outline:

  • additional activities that support 100% alignment to the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science; 
  • the standard being addressed with the activities; 
  • the recommended placement of the activities within a specific Amplify Science unit; and 
  • PDFs of any accompanying materials that are necessary to implement the activities. 

Standard: 1.ESS3.1: Communicate solutions that will reduce the impact of humans on the land, water, air, and/or other living things in the local environment.

Recommended placement: Animal and Plant Defenses unit, Chapter 1

Materials: The Student Book Investigating Monarchs from the unit Needs of Plants and Animals

Investigating Monarchs emphasizes the needs of monarch caterpillars and butterflies and shows what happens when these animals are not able to meet their needs. The book first introduces the life cycle of monarchs, explaining that monarch caterpillars must eat milkweed to survive and change into butterflies. Their summer habitat must have milkweed. The butterflies then migrate a long distance, from the United States to a forest in the mountains of Mexico, where they take shelter in the trees. Their winter habitat must have trees. Scientists discovered that the monarch population in Mexico was greatly reduced because people were cutting down the trees. The forest was then protected, but the monarch population did not recover as expected. Scientists in the United States found evidence that this was because fields with milkweed are being replaced by farms and buildings. This book could be read with the class either before or after Chapter 1 of the Animal and Plant Defenses unit, which focuses on what plants and animals need to do to survive. Students could be asked to reflect on what the monarchs need to survive (including food and shelter), and how human activities impacted the monarchs’ ability to meet those needs. After reading the book, students could brainstorm ideas for how to reduce the impact of humans on the local environment.

Standard: MS-PS4-2: Develop and use a model to describe that waves are reflected, absorbed, or transmitted through various materials.

Recommended placement: Metabolism unit, Lesson 3.3, addition to Activity 5 

Materials: “What Eyes Can See” science article

As students investigate metabolism and the body systems, the article “What Eyes Can See” should be assigned to deepen their understanding of information processing and sense receptors and connect that understanding to the emerging idea of the interaction of waves with various materials. The article explores how the only thing we can really see is light. Light travels from a light source to the eye, passing through some materials and bouncing off others. Tiny organs inside the eye called rods and cones absorb energy from light, making vision possible. These interactions between light and materials determine our visible world. 

Instructions:

Download the PDF “What Eyes Can See” above and remind students of the Active Reading Guidelines. Before students read the article, invite them to share prior experiences. For example, “Have you ever had an experience where something looked different in one kind of light than in another kind of light? Or where something seemed to appear or disappear when the light changed?”

Standard: MS-PS3-1: Construct and interpret graphical displays of data to describe the relationships of kinetic energy to the mass of an object and to the speed of an object.

Recommended placement: Harnessing Human Energy unit, Lesson 1.4, after Activity 4 

Materials: Force and Motion Simulation; Activity instructions and copymasters

In this activity, students use the Force and Motion Simulation to investigate the relationship between kinetic energy, mass, and velocity. 

Instructions

Download the PDF linked above for the Lesson Guide and copymasters needed for the activity. Note that this investigation is typically implemented during the Force and Motion unit. This means the Lesson Guide will contain some incongruous labeling (e.g., unit name), as well as instructions that are out of context and unnecessary for the purposes of addressing this standard at grade 7. We suggest skipping to step 4 of the Instructional Guide to avoid some of this. Your students will get additional exposure to this activity, and indeed the standard as a whole, when they get to the Force and Motion unit in grade 8.

Standards:

  • MS-PS2-3: Ask questions about data to determine the factors that affect the strength of electric and magnetic forces.
  • MS-PS2-5: Conduct an investigation and evaluate the experimental design to provide evidence that fields exist between objects exerting forces on each other even though the objects are not in contact.

Recommended placement: Force and Motion unit, after Lesson 1.5 

Materials: Flextension PDF

This hands-on activity builds on and reinforces students’ understanding of forces that act at a distance, with a focus on electrostatic force. Students explore electrostatic forces, prompted by a set of challenges that they try to accomplish. Next, students generate scientific questions based on their observations. Electrostatic force is less predictable and consistent than magnetic force, and investigating it can be both challenging and intriguing. The purpose of this lesson is for students to gain firsthand experience with electrostatic force and to gain experience generating scientific questions based on observations. You might choose to include this Flextension if you would like your students to have more exposure to electrostatic force, and if you would like to challenge your students to explore and ask questions about a challenging type of force. 

Instructions:

Download the PDF linked above for a detailed Lesson Guide and the copymasters associated with the activity. Note that this activity is typically implemented as an add-on Flextension during the Magnetic Fields unit. This means that you will see some information that is out of context (e.g., placement information, unit title), but the activity itself also works for the purposes of the Force and Motion unit. If you have any questions, please reach out to our support team via the chat icon in your account or help@amplify.com. 

Explore the Digital Teacher’s Guide

When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide.

Review now

To help familiarize yourself with navigating the digital Teacher’s Guide, watch our navigational guide videos:

Grades K–5:

Grades 6–8:

Looking for help?

Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support

Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We have developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:

  • Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans
  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more

To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com

Timely technical and program support

Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.

For your most urgent questions:

  • Use our live chat within your program
  • Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969

For less urgent questions:

Email support

Contact us

Contact your South Carolina team representatives:
Jeff Rutter
Field Manager
jrutter@amplify.com
(727) 512-8440

Cathy McMillan
Senior Account Executive
cmcmillan@amplify.com
(904) 465-9904

CKLA – Knowledge Research Units for K–5

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Inspiring the next generation of Massachusetts scientists, engineers, and curious citizens

Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

Collage of four images: a jungle illustration with a giraffe, students using computers, a boy studying with classmates, and an animated hillside with kites flying.

A powerful partnership

Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify. This partnership extends to 2032, allowing us to continuously improve our program and provide our customers with the most up-to-date enhancements, free of charge. Get a glimpse at our latest back-to-school updates here.

Instructional model

The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:

Three blue panels describing educational activities: "hands-on science" with lab experiments, "discuss" with collaborative learning, and "read" with literacy in science articles.

Phenomena-based approach

In each Amplify Science unit, students take on the roles of scientists or engineers in order to investigate a real-world problem. Students work to define the problem and collect and make sense of evidence. Once the context is clear, students collect evidence from multiple sources and through a variety of modalities. At the end of the unit, students are presented with a brand new problem, giving them an opportunity to apply what they’ve learned over the course of the unit to a new context. This represents a shift from asking students to learn about science to supporting students in figuring out the science.

Flowchart of a learning unit divided into four chapters, showing stages of student engagement from introduction to application, with assessments indicated at various points.

Resources to support your review

Scope and Sequence

GRADE

Kindergarten

UNITS

  • Needs of Plants and Animals
  • Pushes and Pulls
  • Sunlight and Water

Grade 1

  • Needs of Plants and Animals
  • Pushes and Pulls
  • Sunlight and Water

Grade 2

  • Plant and Animal Relationships
  • Properties of Materials
  • Changing Landforms

Grade 3

  • Balancing Forces
  • Inheritance and Traits
  • Environments and Survival
  • Weather and Climate

Grade 4

  • Energy Conversions
  • Vision and Light
  • Earth’s Features
  • Waves, Energy, and Information

Grade 5

  • Patterns of Earth and Sky
  • Modeling Matter
  • The Earth System
  • Ecosystem Restoration

Flexible implementation

One of the key features of Amplify Science is the flexibility that it offers. We give students authentic opportunities to experience the full breadth of what it means to be a scientist or engineer. Just as scientists gather evidence from many types of sources, so do students in our program. Like scientists, students gather evidence not just from physical models, but also from digital models, texts, videos, photographs, maps, data sets, and even their peers!
Simply put, real scientists don’t just get messy—they read, write, analyze, hypothesize, model, test, and communicate with purpose, too.

Illustration of the indirect effects of overfishing on northern benguela jelly populations displayed on a laptop screen.

Student Books
Beginning and young readers have unique developmental needs, and science instruction should support these students in reading more independently as they progress through sections of content, the school year, and each grade. One way Amplify Science meets these needs is by strategically deploying different modes of reading throughout each unit: Read-Aloud, Shared Reading, and Partner Reading.

A collage of various educational book covers related to science and math, featuring illustrated themes like sports, nature, and energy.

Student Investigation Notebooks

Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:

  • record data.
  • reflect on ideas from texts and investigations.
  • construct explanations and arguments.
Collection of educational books from 'amplify science' on topics including ocean atmosphere, matter and energy ecosystems, and insect interactions, displayed in various angles.

Digital student experience

Students access the digital simulations and Modeling Tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:

  • conduct hands-on investigations.
  • engage in Active Reading and writing activities.
  • participate in discussions.
  • record observations.
  • craft end-of-unit scientific arguments.

Dive into a quick example of our powerful simulations

Grades K–5 simulation

A digital illustration showcasing a laptop and a tablet displaying complex data analysis software interfaces with graphs and heatmaps.

Hands-on materials kits

Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science and is integrated
into every unit. Students actively take on the roles of scientists and engineers as they gather evidence, think critically, solve problems, and develop and defend claims about the world around them.

Check out this 2-minute video to see an Amplify Science hands-on investigation in action.

Each unit kit contains:

  • consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials.
  • print classroom display materials.
  • premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc.).
A perforated rectangular board, three small containers with different powders, a black battery holder with red wires, and three colored alligator clips are arranged on a white background.

Teaching support

Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • detailed lesson plans.
  • unit and chapter overview documentation.
  • differentiation strategies.
  • standards alignments.
  • in-context professional development.
A laptop displaying the Geology on Mars webpage sits beside a book titled "Geology on Mars," both featuring the same cover image of Mars and a spacecraft, perfect for enhancing three-dimensional learning in any science classroom.

Massachusetts Academic Standards in Science coverage

Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the NGSS, a set of standards that closely align with the Massachusetts Learning Standards for Science coverage. Most grade levels’ respective set of Amplify Science units therefore address the necessary MASS (see correlation). 

For grades K, 1, 2, 3, and 5, teachers should plan to also use the resources provided in the sections below to achieve full coverage of the appropriate standards before their students move on to the next grade band. Organized by grade level, each section outlines:

  • companion lesson materials that were written to support 100% alignment to the Massachusetts Learning Standards for Science coverage when used with the core Amplify Science units for the grade level
  • the standard being addressed with each companion lesson; and
  • the recommended placement of each companion lesson within a specific Amplify Science unit

Standard: K-PS1-1(MA). Investigate and communicate the idea that different kinds of materials can be solid or liquid depending on temperature.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 5.6 of Sunlight and Weather

Resources: After students finish reflecting on their unit-long exploration of energy and temperature, play and discuss this read-aloud video of the student book Can you Change it Back?, which is featured in the grade 2 unit Properties of Materials. You might also consider borrowing the physical books from a grade 2 colleague’s Properties of Materials kit and reading it as a class instead of or in addition to playing the video.

Using the book, you will introduce students to the idea that heating and cooling can cause changes to materials. In the book, students are presented with a variety of materials and asked to predict whether a certain change caused by heating or cooling is reversible or irreversible.

Companion lesson: “Seasonal Changes”

Standard: 1-ESS1-2– Analyze provided data to identify relationships among seasonal patterns of change, including relative sunrise and sunset time changes, seasonal temperature and rainfall or snowfall patterns, and seasonal changes to the environment.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 5.1 of Spinning Earth

Resources: Season Changes Classroom Slides and Student Sheet

Companion lesson: “Properties and Weight”

Standard: 2-PS1-3– Analyze a variety of evidence to conclude that when a chunk of material is cut or broken into pieces, each piece is still the same material and, however small each piece is, has weight. Show that the material properties of a small set of pieces do not change when the pieces are used to build larger objects.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 4.4 of Properties of Materials.

Resources: Weight and Properties Classroom Slides, Resources, and Student Sheet

Companion lesson 1: Extinct Insects

Standard: 3-LS4-1: Use fossils to describe types of organisms and their environments that existed long ago and compare those to living organisms and their environments. Recognize that most kinds of plants and animals that once lived on Earth are no longer found anywhere.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 2.3 of Environments and Survival

Resources: Extinct Insects Classroom Slides and Student Sheet

Companion lesson 2: Friction

Standard: 3-PS2-1: Provide evidence to explain the effect of multiple forces, including friction, on an object. Include balanced forces that do not change the motion of the object and unbalanced forces that do change the motion of the object.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 1.1 of Balancing Forces

Resources: Friction Classroom Slides, Resources, and Student Sheet

Companion lesson 1: Composters

Standard: 5-LS2-2(MA)– Compare at least two designs for a composter to determine which is most likely to encourage decomposition of materials.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 3.7 of Ecosystem Restoration

Resources: Composters Classroom Slides and Student Sheet

Companion lesson 2: Properties of Materials

Standard: 5-PS1-3 (MA) – Make observations and measurements of substances to describe characteristic properties of each, including color, hardness, reflectivity, electrical conductivity, thermal conductivity, response to magnetic forces, and solubility.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 1.3 of Modeling Matter

Resources: Properties of Materials Classroom Slides, Resources, Articles, Copymaster, and Student Sheet

Companion lesson 3: Water Filters

Standard: 5-ESS3-2(MA)– Test a simple system designed to filter particulates out of water and propose one change to the design to improve it.

Recommended placement: Following Lesson 5.6 of The Earth System

Resources: Water Filters Classroom Slides and Student Sheet

Benchmark Assessments

Amplify’s Benchmark Assessments are designed to help teachers measure student progress toward the three dimensions—Disciplinary Core Ideas (DCIs), Science and Engineering Practices (SEPs), and Crosscutting Concepts(CCCs)—and performance expectations (PEs) of the NGSS. The assessments provide important insight into how students are progressing toward mastery of different standards ahead of high-stakes, end-of-year assessments.

The Benchmark Assessments are built to be delivered after specific units in the recommended Amplify Science scope and sequence.* They are given three or four times per year, depending on the grade level. The benchmarks are intended to show progress at various points in time across a school year, and are therefore not summative in nature. Digital items and item clusters are also tagged to specific NGSS standards, allowing customization to align with other course sequences. The assessments are available via the following platforms:

Print
PDF files: For administering Benchmark Assessments on paper

Digital platforms

  • Illuminate
  • SchoolCity
  • Otus
  • QTI (“Question and Test Interoperability”) files
    Not sure whether QTI files are compatible with your assessment platform? Contact your school IT or assessment platform representative for more information.
    Please note that Amplify is able to provide access to the QTI files themselves, but is not able to support the integration process. Your assessment platform provider should be able to assist with QTI file integration.

Remote and hybrid learning support

A child sits at a desk using a laptop. Next to the desk is a bookshelf with books, a fishbowl, and a soccer ball.

See an example of our remote and hybrid learning support below:

Intended to make extended remote and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science @Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units.
Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home.

Amplify Science @Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. Each @Home unit includes:

  • Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available
  • Overviews to send home to families

Student materials will be available in two formats:

  • @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home
  • Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home

Download the remote and hybrid learning guide

Explore the digital Teacher’s Guide

To familiarize yourself with navigation of the digital Teacher’s Guide, watch our navigational guide videos:

Grades K–5:

Looking for help?

Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support

Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We’ve developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:

  • Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans.
  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs.
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.

Timely technical and program support

Our technical and program support is included and available Monday through Friday, from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.

Ready to dive in?

Contact your Massachusetts representative:

Tracy Yefimenko
518-466-3497
tyefimenko@amplify.com

Introducing new units for Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos K–5

As part of our commitment to creating even richer and more wide-ranging curricula, we are excited to release six new units for both Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos!

Click here to learn more about Amplify CKLA.

Click here to learn more about Amplify Caminos.

About these units

Our brand-new Knowledge Research units carry forward the powerful and proven instructional approach of both Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos while also:

  • Adding more variety to engage students from many walks of life. The rich topics and highly visual components featured in these units provide students with even more “windows and mirrors” and perspectives as they work to build knowledge.
  • Adding more authentic literature. Each new research unit revolves around a collection of high-interest authentic trade books that will spark more curiosity and inspire more inquiry.
  • Adding more flexibility. Units can be implemented for extended core instruction during flex periods, district-designated Pausing Points, or enrichment periods.

Units cover a variety of rich and relevant topics:

Three illustrations: one shows people at a gaming session, the middle depicts a diverse group standing together, and the third portrays a group gardening outdoors.

With these new units, students will soar to new heights with Dr. Ellen Ochoa, Amelia Earhart, and the Tuskegee Airmen. They’ll feel the rhythm as they learn about Jazz legends Miles Davis, Tito Puente, and Duke Ellington. And they’ll explore the far reaches of the world with Jacques Cousteau, Matthew Henson, and Eugenie Clark.

  • Grade K: Art and the World Around Us/El arte y el mundo que nos rodea
  • Grade 1: Adventure Stories: Tales from the Edge of the World/Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra
  • Grade 2: Up, Up, and Away: The Age of Aviation/¡A volar! La era de la aviación
  • Grade 3: All That Jazz/Jazz y más
  • Grade 4: Energy: Past, Present, and Future/Energía: pasado, presente y futuro
  • Grade 5: Beyond Juneteenth: 1865 to present/Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente

Units are available in English and Spanish, and will include the following components:

  • Teacher Guide
  • Student Activity Books
  • Image Cards
  • Trade Book Collection
  • Digital Components (grades K–3 and 5)

Grade K: Art and the World Around Us/El arte y el mundo que nos rodea

“Every child is an artist,” said Picasso, meaning that every child uses art to explore and understand the world around them. Art and the World Around Us honors that truth by introducing Kindergarten students to some of the ways in which artists have explored and understood the worlds around them, too.

This domain introduces students to artists from different time periods, countries, and cultures. Throughout the unit, students learn about different kinds of art and how artists use the world around them as they make art. They also connect this to what they have already learned about the earth, plants, and animals in other Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos domains: Farms/Granjas, Plants/Plantas, and Taking Care of the Earth/Cuidar el planeta Tierra. In addition, students connect this to what they have learned about sculptors in the Presidents and American Symbols/Presidentes y símbolos de los Estados Unidos domain. As they explore different artists and artistic traditions, they develop their ideas about how humans are connected to each other and to the world around them.

As you read the texts in this unit, students may observe ways in which the characters or subjects are both similar to and different from students. This is a good opportunity to teach students awareness and sensitivity, building on the idea that all people share some things in common, and have other things that make them unique. This unit also offers an excellent opportunity to collaborate with your school’s art teacher, as many lessons have suggested activities to help students understand the kind of art they are studying.

Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Use details to describe art.
  • Identify three ways to create art.
  • Identify characteristics of cave art.
  • Sequence the steps of making pottery.
  • Describe how artists can create work connected to the world around them.
  • Describe what makes Kehinde Wiley’s portraits unique.
  • Explain how the texture of a surface can affect artwork created on it.
  • Explain what a sculpture is.
  • Describe what makes James Turrell’s artwork about the sky unique.
  • Explain what a museum is and what kinds of things you can see or do there.

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • The First Drawing by Mordicai Gerstein
  • Van Gogh and the Sunflowers by Laurence Anholt
  • My Name is Georgia by Jeanette Winter
  • A Life Made by Hand by Andrea D’Aquino
  • Rainbow Weaver by Linda Elovitz Marshall
  • Luna Loves Art by Joseph Coelho

Grade 1: Adventure Stories: Tales from the Edge of the World/Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra

This domain introduces students to adventure stories set around the world and challenges students to dig into the adventures through research. By listening to the Read-Alouds and trade books, students increase their vocabulary and reading comprehension skills, learn valuable lessons about perseverance and teamwork, and become familiar with gathering information for research.

In this unit, students study the careers of real-world explorers Dr. Eugenie Clark and Sophia Danenberg, marvel at the inventions of Jacques Cousteau, think critically about how teamwork and collaboration can make greater adventures possible, learn about the science and technology that enable adventures, and research some of the ways humans have confronted challenges at the edges of the world, from the oceans below to space above.

Each lesson in the domain builds students’ research skills as they ask questions, gather information, and write a paragraph about their findings. Students share what they have learned about adventures in an Adventure Gallery Walkthrough. By taking on the persona of one of the adventurers they meet in the Read-Alouds and trade books, students deliver their final paragraphs as if they are a “speaking portrait” of that person. Students are invited to dress up as that adventurer if they desire.

In addition, teachers can set aside time outside of the instructional block to create the picture frames students will hold as they present to the Adventure Gallery Walk guests. Frames can be made from shirt boxes, cardboard, construction paper, or any art supplies that are on hand. This might be an opportunity to collaborate with the school’s art department if resources are available. Another option is to ask students to make their frames at home with their caregivers. On the day of the Adventure Gallery Walk, students will be the hosts and take on specific jobs, such as welcoming the guests, describing their work throughout the unit, and pointing out the areas of study on the domain bulletin board. You can find a complete list of student jobs in Lesson 13.

This unit builds upon the following Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos units that students will have encountered in the previous grade.

  • Nursery Rhymes and Fables/Rimas y fábulas infantiles (Kindergarten)
  • Stories/Cuentos (Kindergarten)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Adventure Stories: Tales from the Edge of the World. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • My Name is Gabito/Me llamo Gabito by Monica Brown
  • Tomas and the Galápagos Adventure by Carolyn Lunn
  • The Astronaut with a Song for the Stars: The Story of Dr. Ellen Ochoa by Julia Finley Mosca
  • Mae Among the Stars by Roda Ahmed
  • Shark Lady: The True Story of How Eugenie Clark Became the Ocean’s Most Fearless Scientist by Jess Keating
  • Manfish by Jennifer Berne
  • Keep On! The Story of Matthew Henson, Co-Discoverer of the North Pole by Deborah Hopkinson
  • The Top of the World: Climbing Mount Everest by Steve Jenkins

Grade 2: Up, Up, and Away: The Age of Aviation/¡A volar! La era de la aviación

With this domain, students head up, up, and away with an introduction to the soaring history of aviation. Students learn the stories of early aviators, such as the Montgolfier brothers, the Wright brothers, Aída de Acosta, and Amelia Earhart.

During the unit, students study the science of flight, including the physics concept of lift, and research the social impacts of the world of flight. Finally, students let their research skills take flight as they explore key figures from the world of aviation.

The lessons in this domain build on earlier Grade 2 CKLA and Amplify Caminos domains about the westward expansion, early Greek civilizations, and Greek myths, and lay the foundation for learning about other periods of world history in future grades.

This unit builds upon the following Amplify CKLA and Amplify Caminos units that students will have encountered earlier in the year.

  • The Ancient Greek Civilization/La civilización griega antigua (Grade 2)
  • Greek Myths/Mitos griegos (Grade 2)
  • Westward Expansion/La expansión hacia el oeste (Grade 2)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Up, Up, and Away: The Age of Aviation. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Up and Away!: How Two Brothers Invented the Hot-Air Balloon by Jason Henry
  • The Glorious Flight: Across the Channel with Louis Blériot by Alice and Martin Provensen
  • The Flying Girl: How Aída de Acosta Learned to Soar by Margarita Engle
  • Wood, Wire, Wings: Emma Lilian Todd Invents an Airplane by Kirsten Larson
  • Helicopter Man: Igor Sikorsky and His Amazing Invention by Edwin Brit Wyckoff
  • The Tuskegee Airmen Story by Lynn Homan and Thomas Reilly
  • Skyward: The Story of Female Pilots in WWII by Sally Deng
  • Aim for the Skies: Jerrie Mock and Joan Merriam Smith’s Race to Complete Amelia Earhart’s Quest by Aimee Bissonette

Grade 3: All That Jazz/Jazz y más

This domain teaches students about the vibrant music, poetry, and culture of the Jazz Age in the United States. Students learn about famous writers and musicians like Langston Hughes, Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Melba Liston, Tito Puente, and Miles Davis. They study how the jazz art form took root in the South, then spread to the North to become the sound of the Harlem Renaissance, eventually connecting people around the world in musical expression.

During this unit, students perform guided research to further explore both the history of jazz and what jazz is today. They develop research skills and then use those skills to find deeper connections between the stories and music of the Jazz Age and music today. As students learn about the world of jazz, they collaborate and share ideas with their classmates. They also practice sharing feedback focused on their written work, and, at the end of the unit, students present their research to the group.

The lessons give students opportunities to dive into the rhythms and stories of jazz, utilizing the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about jazz, jazz musicians, contemporary musicians from the state where they live or have lived, and the evolution of jazz music.
  • Utilize Read-Alouds, independent reading, and partner reading to learn about the Jazz Age, the Harlem Renaissance, jazz music, and biographies of celebrated jazz musicians and writers.
  • Research the answers to their generated questions, gather information, write a short research essay about a famous jazz musician, write a short essay about a contemporary musician from the state where they live or have lived, and give a presentation about their research.

Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Ask relevant questions and make pertinent comments
  • Identify details in texts
  • Determine key ideas of texts by evaluating details
  • Make text-based inferences
  • Generate questions based on prior knowledge and gathered information
  • Synthesize details across texts to demonstrate comprehension
  • Discuss and explain an author’s purpose
  • Identify and cite reliable primary and secondary sources of information
  • Compose a well-organized and focused informative essay
  • Make connections between topics
  • Present information using appropriate media

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Birth of the Cool: How Jazz Great Miles Davis Found His Sound by Kathleen Cornell Berman
  • Little Melba and Her Big Trombone by Kathryn Russell-Brown
  • Benny Goodman and Teddy Wilson: Taking the Stage as the First Black and White Jazz Band in History by Lesa Cline-Ransome
  • Tito Puente, Mambo King by Monica Brown
  • Drum Dream Girl: How One Girl’s Courage Changed Music by Margarita Engle
  • Duke Ellington: The Piano Prince and His Orchestra by Andrea Pinkney

In this unit, students also read the poem “Harlem” by Langston Hughes. (Available for free through the Academy of American Poets website and the Poetry Foundation website, with recorded audio available through the website for John Hancock College Preparatory High School.)

Grade 4: Energy: Past, Present, and Future/Energía: pasado, presente y futuro

With this domain, students become tomorrow’s problem solvers in this study of energy in the United States. Analytical reading skills are developed by examining the challenges of early energy innovators. Students then read about current energy practices and young energy change-makers across the world.

Throughout the unit, students conduct research into different sources of energy and present a proposal, putting them in the shoes of future energy innovators. They also use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively analyze texts to identify cause-effect and problem-solution relationships.
  • Generate questions and conduct research about energy.
  • Write an opinion essay making their case for a fuel of the future.
  • Create energy proposals using primary and secondary resources.

This unit builds upon the following Amplify CKLA units that students will have encountered in previous grades as well as earlier in the year.

  • Plants/Plantas (Grade K)
  • The History of the Earth/La historia de la Tierra (Grade 1)
  • Eureka! Student Inventor/¡Eureka! El arte de la invención (Grade 4)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Energy: Past, Present, and Future. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Buried Sunlight: How Fossil Fuels Have Changed the Earth by Molly Bang and Penny Chisholm
  • Energy Island: How One Community Harnessed the Wind and Changed their World by Allan Drummond
  • The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind: Picture Book Edition by William Kamkwamba and Bryan Mealer

Grade 5: Beyond Juneteenth: 1865 to present/Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente

Within this domain, Students learn about General Granger’s announcement in Galveston, Texas on June 19, 1865, a day marked in history as Juneteenth. Texts and multimedia sources will support foundational knowledge-building about the end of slavery in the United States. A review of the first freedom announcement, President Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, provides students with background knowledge to further emphasize the significance of Juneteenth in American history.

This unit also takes students on a journey beyond Juneteenth, as they study specific contributions of African Americans from 1865 to the present day. Students participate in a virtual field trip to Emancipation Park in Houston, Texas and use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about Juneteenth, The Great Migration, innovators and inventors, education, the humanities, activists, and allies.
  • Use Read-Alouds, independent, and partner reading to learn about African American contributions from 1865 to the present.
  • Research to find answers to their generated questions, gather information, and write a four-chapter Beyond Juneteenth book.

This unit builds upon the following Amplify CKLA units that students will have encountered in previous grades.

  • Native Americans/Los nativos americanos (Grade K)
  • A New Nation: American Independence/Una nueva nación: la independencia de los Estados Unidos
    (Grade 1)
  • The U.S. Civil War/La Guerra Civil de los Estados Unidos (Grade 2)
  • Immigration/La inmigración (Grade 2)
  • Native Americans/Los nativos americanos (Grade 5)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Beyond Juneteenth: 1865 to present. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • All Different Now: Juneteenth, the First Day of Freedom by Angela Johnson
  • The Great Migration: An American Story by Jacob Lawrence
  • Sing a Song: How “Lift Every Voice and Sing” Inspired Generations by Kelly Starling Lyons
  • Side by Side/ Lado a lado: The Story of Dolores Huerta and Cesar Chavez/ La Historia de Dolores Huerta y Cesar Chavez by Monica Brown
  • Of Thee I Sing: A Letter to My Daughters by Barack Obama

Amplify CKLA Review for Alabama

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Amplify and SFUSD Partnership

We recognize and respect the unique differences of each of our partnering districts—and that includes San Francisco USD.

Out of the box, Amplify Caminos offers districts a rich, comprehensive, research-based SELA experience. That said, no two districts are exactly alike. To that end, we are committed to working with San Francisco USD to ensure that Amplify Caminos addresses the needs of your community. This includes providing implementation guidance and support, as well as collaborating with your staff to determine which domains need to be modified or exchanged.

What is Amplify Caminos?

Amplify Caminos is a core Spanish language arts program for grades TK–5 that delivers:

  • Authentic instruction built from the ground up for the Spanish language.
  • A unique research-based approach truly built on the Science of Reading.
  • A combination of explicit foundational skills with meaningful knowledge-building.
  • Embedded support and differentiation that gets all students reading grade-level texts together.
  • Opportunities for students to see the strengths and experiences that all people share while also celebrating each others’ unique identities and experiences.



Watch the video below to learn more about Amplify Caminos for Grades K–2.



Watch the video below to learn more about Amplify Caminos for Grades 3–5.

How does Amplify Caminos work?

Amplify Caminos is built on the science of how kids learn to read—in Spanish.

Amplify Caminos is all about helping you teach students how to read, all while giving them authentic and engaging reasons to read. That’s why Amplify Caminos develops foundational skills and builds knowledge in tandem.

  • Knowledge: Through complex and authentic Spanish read-alouds with an emphasis on classroom interactivity, oral comprehension, and contextual vocabulary, students start to build their awareness of the world around them—and the way the reading skills they’re building give them access to it.
  • Skills: Starting with the sounds at the core of the Spanish
    language, students practice their phonemic awareness, handwriting skills, vocabulary, spelling, and grammar. Through daily practice, students become aware of the connection between reading and writing, building confidence as they go.
Illustration depicting the flow of genetic information, represented by ribbons transitioning from dna to rna, connected to various educational images and diagrams.

Respecting the development differences between grade ranges, Amplify Caminos teaches foundational skills and background knowledge as two distinct strands in grades K–2, and combines them into one integrated strand in grades 3–5.

Grades K–2:
Every day, students in grades K–2 complete one full lesson that explicitly and systematically builds foundational reading skills in the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura strand, as well as one full lesson that builds robust background knowledge to access complex text in the Amplify Caminos Conocimiento strand. Through learning in each of these strands, students develop the early literacy skills necessary to help them become confident readers and build the context to understand what they’re reading.

Grades 3–5:
In grades 3–5, the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura and Conocimiento strands are integrated in one set of instructional materials. Lessons begin to combine skills and knowledge with increasingly complex texts, close reading, and a greater writing emphasis. Students can then use their skills to go on their own independent reading adventures.

What do Amplify Caminos students explore?

Amplify Caminos builds students’ knowledge about the world.

In addition to teaching all students to crack the written code (which is vital for equity), the Amplify Caminos program helps students see the strengths and experiences we all share while celebrating their own unique identities and experiences.

This is accomplished through the exploration of topics and text that feature people who resemble students and familiar situations or experiences while also exposing them to people whose appearances, lives, beliefs, and backgrounds differ from their own.
 

Engaging domains

Amplify Caminos builds knowledge coherently across subjects and grades.

Throughout the program, students use their skills to explore domains that relate to storytelling, science, and the history of our world as seen through the eyes of many different groups.

Carefully selected to build from year-to-year, our grade-appropriate topics help students make and deepen connections while also reading, writing, and thinking creatively and for themselves.

Curriculum flowchart for Kindergarten to Grade 5, showing subject progression in language, science, and social studies, with highlighted and connected units.

New Knowledge Research Units for Grades K–5

Our brand-new Knowledge Research units carry forward Amplify Caminos’ powerful and proven instructional approach while also:

  • Adding more diversity. The rich topics and highly visual components featured in these units provide students with even more “windows and mirrors” and perspectives as they work to build knowledge.
  • Adding more authentic literature. Each new research unit revolves around a collection of high-interest authentic trade books that will spark more curiosity and inspire more inquiry.
  • Adding more flexibility. Units can be implemented for extended core instruction during flex periods, district-designated Pausing Points, or enrichment periods.

Units cover a variety of rich and relevant topics:

With these new units, students will soar to new heights with Dr. Ellen Ochoa, Amelia Earhart, and the Tuskegee Airmen. They’ll feel the rhythm as they learn about Jazz legends Miles Davis, Tito Puente, and Duke Ellington. And they’ll explore the far reaches of the world with Jacques Cousteau, Matthew Henson, and Eugenie Clark.

  • Grade K: El arte y el mundo que nos rodea
  • Grade 1: Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra
  • Grade 2: ¡A volar! La era de la aviación
  • Grade 3: Jazz y más
  • Grade 4: Energía: pasado, presente y futuro
  • Grade 5: Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente

Units will be made available in English and Spanish, and will include the following components:

Why we added this unit:
“Every child is an artist,” said Picasso, meaning that every child uses art to explore and understand the world around them. El arte y el mundo que nos rodea honors that truth by introducing Kindergarten students to some of the ways in which artists have explored and understood the world around them.

This domain introduces students to artists from different time periods, countries, and cultures. Throughout the unit, students learn about different kinds of art and how artists use the world around them as they make art. They also connect this to what they have already learned about the earth, plants, and animals in other Caminos domains: Granjas, Plantas, and Cuidar el planeta Tierra. In addition, students connect this to what they have learned about sculptors in the Presidentes y símbolos de los Estados Unidos domain. As they explore different artists and artistic traditions, they develop their ideas about how humans are connected to each other and to the world around them.

As you read the texts in this unit, students may observe ways in which the characters or subjects are both similar to and different from students. This is a good opportunity to teach students awareness and sensitivity, building on the idea that all people share some things in common, even as they have other things that make them unique. This unit also offers an excellent opportunity to collaborate with your school’s art teacher, as many lessons have suggested activities to help students understand the kind of art they are studying.

Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Use details to describe art.
  • Identify three ways to create art.
  • Identify characteristics of cave art.
  • Sequence the steps of making pottery.
  • Describe how artists can create work connected to the world around them.
  • Describe what makes Kehinde Wiley’s portraits unique.
  • Explain how the texture of a surface can affect artwork created on it.
  • Explain what a sculpture is.
  • Describe what makes James Turrell’s artwork about the sky unique.
  • Explain what a museum is and what kinds of things you can see or do there.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Georgia O’Keeffe por Erica Salcedo
  • Yayoi Kusama: De aquí al infinito por Sarah Suzuki
  • Tejedora del arcoíris por Linda Elovitz Marshall
  • Las tijeras de Matisse por Jeanette Winter
  • El museo por Susan Verde
  • Quizás algo hermoso: Cómo el arte transformó un barrio por F. Isabel Campoy

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
This domain introduces students to adventure stories set around the world and challenges students to dig into the adventures through research. By listening to the Read-Alouds and trade books, students increase their vocabulary and reading comprehension skills, learn valuable lessons about perseverance and teamwork, and become familiar with gathering information for research.

In this unit, students study the careers of real-world explorers Dr. Eugenie Clark and Sophia Danenberg, marvel at the inventions of Jacques Cousteau, think critically about how teamwork and collaboration can make greater adventures possible, learn about the science and technology that enable adventures, and research some of the ways humans have confronted challenges at the edges of the world, from the oceans below to space above.

Each lesson in the domain builds students’ research skills as they ask questions, gather information, and write a paragraph about their findings. Students share what they have learned about adventures in an Adventure Gallery Walkthrough. By taking on the persona of one of the adventurers they meet in the Read-Alouds and trade books, students deliver their final paragraphs as if they are a “speaking portrait” of that person. Students are invited to dress up as that adventurer if they desire.

In addition, teachers can set aside time outside the instructional block to create the picture frames students will hold as they present to the Adventure Gallery Walk guests. Frames can be made from shirt boxes, cardboard, construction paper, or any art supplies that are on hand. This might be an opportunity to collaborate with the school’s art department if resources are available. Another option is to ask students to make their frames at home with their caregivers. On the day of the Adventure Gallery Walk, students will be the hosts and take on specific jobs, such as welcoming the guests, describing their work throughout the unit, and pointing out the areas of study on the domain bulletin board. You can find a complete list of student jobs in Lesson 13.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in the previous grade.

  • Rimas y fábulas infantiles (Kindergarten)
  • Cuentos (Kindergarten)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • My Name Is Gabito/Me llamo Gabito por Monica Brown
  • Galápagos Girl/Galapagueña por Marsha Diane Arnold
  • My Name Is Gabriela/Me llamo Gabriela por Monica Brown
  • El viaje de Kalak por María Quintana Silva y Marie-Noëlle Hébert
  • Señorita Mariposa por Ben Gundersheimer
  • Sharuko, el arqueólogo peruano/Peruvian Archaeologist Julio C. Tello por Monica Brown
  • Abuelita fue al mercado por Stella Blackstone

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
With this domain, students head up, up, and away with an introduction to the soaring history of aviation. Students learn the stories of early aviators, such as the Montgolfier brothers, the Wright brothers, Aida de Acosta, and Amelia Earhart.

During the unit, students study the science of flight, including the physics concept of lift, and research the social impacts of the world of flight. Finally, students let their research skills take flight as they explore key figures from the world of aviation.

The lessons in this domain build on earlier Grade 2 Caminos domains about the westward expansion, early Greek civilizations, and Greek myths, and lay the foundation for learning about other periods of world history in future grades.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered earlier in the year.

  • La civilización griega antigua (Grade 2)
  • Mitos griegos (Grade 2)
  • La expansión hacia el oeste (Grade 2)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in ¡A volar! La era de la aviación. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • ¡A volar! Todo sobre aviones por Jennifer Prior
  • Amelia sabe volar por Mara dal Corso
  • Héroes de la aviación que cambiaron el mundo por Dan Green
  • El niño que alcanzó las estrellas por José M. Hernández
  • La niña que aprendió a volar por Sylvia Acevedo
  • Buenas Noches Capitán Mamá por Graciela Tiscareño-Sato

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
This domain teaches students about the vibrant music, poetry, and culture of the Jazz Age in the United States. Students learn about famous writers and musicians like Langston Hughes, Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Melba Liston, Tito Puente, and Miles Davis. They study how the jazz art form took root in the South, then spread to the North to become the sound of the Harlem Renaissance, eventually connecting people around the world in musical expression.

During this unit, students perform guided research to further explore both the history of jazz and what jazz is today. They develop research skills and then use those skills to find deeper connections between the stories and music of the Jazz Age and music today. As students learn about the world of jazz, they collaborate and share ideas with their classmates. They also practice sharing feedback focused on their written work, and, at the end of the unit, students present their research to the group.

The lessons give students opportunities to dive into the rhythms and stories of jazz, utilizing the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about jazz, jazz musicians, contemporary musicians from the state where they live or have lived, and the evolution of jazz music.
  • Utilize Read-Alouds, independent reading, and partner reading to learn about the Jazz Age, the Harlem Renaissance, jazz music, and biographies of celebrated jazz musicians and writers.
  • Research the answers to their generated questions, gather information, write a short research essay about a famous jazz musician, write a short essay about a contemporary musician from the state where they live or have lived, and give a presentation about their research.

How this unit builds knowledge:
Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Ask relevant questions and make pertinent comments
  • Identify details in texts
  • Determine key ideas of texts by evaluating details
  • Make text-based inferences
  • Generate questions based on prior knowledge and gathered information
  • Synthesize details across texts to demonstrate comprehension
  • Discuss and explain an author’s purpose
  • Identify and cite reliable primary and secondary sources of information
  • Compose a well-organized and focused informative essay
  • Make connections between topics
  • Present information using appropriate media

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • ¡Esquivel! Un artista del sonido de la era espacial por Susan Wood
  • Ray Charles por Sharon Bell Mathis
  • Tito Puente, el Rey del Mambo por Monica Brown
  • Me llamo Celia, la vida de Celia Cruz por Monica Brown
  • ¡Azúcar! por Ivar Da Coll

In this unit, students also read the poem “Harlem” by Langston Hughes. (Available for free through the Academy of American Poets website and the Poetry Foundation website, with recorded audio available through the website for John Hancock College Preparatory High School.)

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
With this domain, students become tomorrow’s problem solvers in this study of energy in the United States. Analytical reading skills are developed by examining the challenges of early energy innovators. Students then read about current energy practices and young energy change-makers across the world.

Throughout the unit, students conduct research into different sources of energy and present a proposal, putting them in the shoes of future energy innovators. They also use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively analyze texts to identify cause-effect and problem-solution relationships.
  • Generate questions and conduct research about energy.
  • Write an opinion essay making their case for a fuel of the future.
  • Create energy proposals using primary and secondary resources.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in previous grades as well as earlier in the year.

  • Plantas (Grade K)
  • La historia de la Tierra (Grade 1)
  • ¡Eureka! Estudiante inventor (Grade 4)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Energía: pasado, presente y futuro. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • La historia de los combustibles fósiles por William B. Rice
  • El niño que domó el viento por William Kamkwamba y Bryan Mealer

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
Within this domain, Students learn about General Granger’s announcement in Galveston, Texas on June 19, 1865, a day marked in history as Juneteenth. Texts and multimedia sources will support foundational knowledge-building about the end of slavery in the United States. A review of the first freedom announcement, President Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, provides students with background knowledge to further emphasize the significance of Juneteenth in American history.

This unit also takes students on a journey beyond Juneteenth, as they study specific contributions of African Americans from 1865 to the present day. Students participate in a virtual field trip to Emancipation Park in Houston, Texas and use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about Juneteenth, The Great Migration, innovators and inventors, education, the humanities, activists, and allies.
  • Use Read-Alouds, independent, and partner reading to learn about African American contributions from 1865 to the present.
  • Research to find answers to their generated questions, gather information, and write a four-chapter Beyond Juneteenth book.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in previous grades.

  • Los nativos americanos (Grade K)
  • Una nueva nación: la independencia de los Estados Unidos (Grade 1)
  • La Guerra Civil de los Estaods Unidos (Grade 2)
  • La inmigración (Grade 2)
  • Los nativos americanos (Grade 5)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente
. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Martí’s Song for Freedom/Martí y sus versos por la libertad escrito por Emma Otheguy
  • ¡Celebremos Juneteenth! escrito por Carole Boston Weatherford
  • Side by Side/Lado a Lado: The Story of Dolores Huerta and Cesar Chavez/La Historia de Dolores Huerta y César Chávez escrito por Monica Brown
  • Canto de alabanza para el día: Poema para la ceremonia inaugural del mandato de Barack Obama escrito por Elizabeth Alexander, traducido por Rodrigo Rojas

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Diverse texts

Amplify Caminos puts a variety of texts in the hands of students every day.

Amplify Caminos includes both transadaptations and authentic texts written by Latin American and Spanish authors. In addition to featuring a diverse range of authors and topics, our texts represent individuals and characters with a broad range of identity factors, including socioeconomic status, age, ability, race, ethnicity, country of origin, religion, and more.

Amplify Caminos texts include:

  • Authentic literature: Authentic literature exposes students to a variety of text types and perspectives to deepen their knowledge of fascinating topics in social studies, science, literature, and the arts. Authentic texts support text-to-self, text-to-world, and text-to-text connections for readers.
  • Decodable Student Readers: Amplify Caminos is built on the conviction that equitable instruction is vital to an effective program. Decodable Student Readers at grades K–2 are newly re-designed to celebrate students’ diverse experiences and feature individuals with a broad range of identity factors, including socioeconomic status, age, ability, race, ethnicity, country of origin, religion, and more.
  • ReadWorks® texts: Amplify and ReadWorks have partnered to deliver high-quality texts curated to support the Amplify Caminos Knowledge Sequence and to extend student learning. Texts include high-interest nonfiction articles in topics in social studies, science, literature, and the arts. These texts are accompanied by vocabulary supports and standards-aligned formative assessment opportunities. Teachers can monitor their students’ progress using the ReadWorks reporting features.
Three book covers displaying children's books in spanish, each featuring colorful and stylized illustrations related to cultural stories.

Amplify Caminos Trade Book Collection Guide

Each book in our authentic literature collection was selected specifically to support and enhance the content of the K-2 Conocimiento Strand. These anchor texts are intended for use as an introduction to each domain—engaging students, piquing their curiosity, and building initial background knowledge—before diving into the deeper content of the domain Read-Alouds.

Every trade book has an instructional guide that includes the following:

  • Author and illustrator
  • Book summary
  • The Essential Question of the Knowledge domain, connecting the book to the domain
  • Key Tier 2 and Tier 3 vocabulary words found in the book
  • A group activity to reinforce and extend students’ knowledge and understanding
  • A performance task to help gauge students’ comprehension of concepts in the text
  • Writing prompts to expand understanding and critical thinking
  • Text complexity ratings and descriptors for quantitative, qualitative, and reader/task categories

Download the Amplify Caminos Trade Book Collection Guide for Grades K–2.

Detailed information about text complexity ratings and descriptors; additional uses for the books before, during, and after domain instruction; and the complete list of domains and books for each grade level can be found in the More About the Books section of this guide.

What makes Amplify Caminos different?

Built on the Science of Reading

Built out of the latest research in the Science of Reading, Amplify Caminos delivers explicit instruction in both foundational literacy skills (systematic phonics, decoding, and fluency) and background knowledge in grades K–2 with an integrated approach to explicit instruction in grades 3–5.

Three connected orange blocks labeled

Explicit systematic skills instruction

The skills instruction in Amplify Caminos was distinctly developed with the Spanish language in mind. Its foundational lessons are specific to the language, rather than a direct translation from Amplify CKLA’s English skills instruction.

Reading instruction begins with the vowels first, then the most common consonants, and finally the least common consonants. Students will blend and segment sounds to form syllables, and syllables to form words.

Although Spanish has a highly predictable orthography, there are a few silent letters (h is always silent, u is silent after g or q), as well as letters that can make different sounds, depending on the letters that follow them. For that reason, syllables with these letters are taught somewhat later in the progression. The same is true for syllables with infrequently occurring consonants, such as z, k, x, and w.

Coherent knowledge instruction

While students are learning how to read, the Conocimiento strand gives them authentic and engaging reasons to read.

Amplify Caminos uses spiral learning to reinforce every student’s ability to develop skills like reading, writing, speaking, and listening in Spanish that can be transferred to English. As students engage with their lessons, they explore the similarities and differences in grammar, vocabulary, writing, and language use between Spanish and English. This bridge helps students learning two languages to strengthen their knowledge in both.

Through cross-curricular content, students explore units that relate to storytelling, science, and the history of our world in a holistic and thoughtful way. With these units, you’ll bring the world to your students, showing them how reading can become an exciting, rewarding, and useful part of their lives.

A collage of illustrated book covers, including themes of Don Quixote, space exploration, and anthropomorphic animals in various scenarios, all enriched with Spanish language elements.

Embedded differentiation for all learners

Amplify Caminos provides built-in differentiation strategies and supports in every lesson.

  • Apoyo a la enseñanza y desafío: Support and Challenge suggestions in every lesson provide assistance or opportunities for more advanced work toward the goal of the lesson.
  • Notas culturales: These point-of-use notes provide additional information about the traditions, foods, holidays, word variations, and more from across the Spanish-speaking world.
  • Apoyo adicional: Every lesson in the Lectoescritura (Skills) Strand provides additional support activities suggested to reinforce foundational skills instruction. These activities can be given to any student who requires extra help, including students with special needs.

Systematic and cohesive writing instruction

Writing instruction in Amplify Caminos builds systematically and cohesively within and across grades.

In Grades K-2, writing mechanics—including handwriting and spelling—are taught in the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura strand. Starting in Grade 1, instruction includes four steps in the writing process: planning, drafting, editing, and publishing and features lessons that have modeling, collaboration, and sharing. As students gain skills and confidence, they are able to take on more of these steps independently. Students learn to use planning techniques, including brainstorming and graphic organizers.

Beginning in Grade 4, the Amplify Caminos writing process expands to also include sharing and evaluating. In Grades 4 and 5, the writing process is no longer conceptualized as a series of scaffolded, linear steps (an important change from the Grade 3 writing process). Rather, students move between components of the writing process in a flexible manner, similar to the process mature and experienced writers follow naturally.

young male students writing with a pencil

Amplify Caminos’ writing instruction provides a clear progression through the text types in each grade.

Because Amplify Caminos has two strands of lessons in Grades K-2, Lectoescritura and Conocimiento, students are exposed to both narrative and informational texts throughout the year. In Grades 3-5, the integrated units feature study in literary, informational, or a mix of both types of texts, depending on the content of the unit.

  • Grades K–2 introduce and establish the key elements of each text type, allowing students to gain comfort and confidence writing narratives, opinions, and informative texts. This enables students to practice thinking about content in different ways, offering more depth and breadth to their understanding of core content and of the writing text types.
  • By Grade 3, students will have gained significant practice in narrative, opinion/argumentative, and informational/explanatory forms of writing and will continue to apply those skills through Grade 5.

How does Amplify Caminos integrate with the other parts of the literacy system?

Amplify Caminos + mCLASS® Lectura

Achieve complete parity between English and Spanish assessments with mCLASS Lectura for K–6. mCLASS Lectura allows teachers to connect with their Spanish-speaking students face-to-face, one-on-one, and in the language most comfortable to them. The result? Valid and reliable student data reports
available in both English and Spanish, enabling teachers to pinpoint where their Spanish-speaking or emergent bilingual students really are in their skill development and what instruction to prioritize.

Reading assessment validated for benchmark, progress monitoring, and dyslexia screening

Amplify Caminos + Amplify Reading

Amplify Reading is an engaging, adaptive digital program that extends the learning in Amplify Caminos. Amplify Reading offers support to a large sub-group of English learners (ELs) through Spanish voice-over. Spanish voiceover instructions are available in vocabulary and sentence-level comprehension games so ELs can build their vocabulary, language, and critical comprehension skills before moving into analyzing complex texts

Spanish Support

Demo access and sample materials

Ready to explore on your own? First, watch the videos below to learn about the program’s components and how to navigate the digital platform.

Physical materials walkthrough video



Digital navigation video

Demo access

Next, follow the instructions below to access your demo account.

Laptop screen displaying a login page for
  • Click the CKLA and Caminos Demo button below.
  • Select Log in with Amplify.
  • To explore as a teacher, enter this username: t1.sfusdreviewer@demo.tryamplify.net
  • To explore as a student, enter this username: s1.sfusdreviewer@demo.tryamplify.net
  • Enter the password: Amplify1-sfusdreviewer
  • Click the Programs and apps menu
  • Select CKLA Teacher Resource Site
  • Select the desire grade level
  • Use the toggle to switch between English (CKLA) and Spanish (Caminos) resources.
CKLA and Caminos Demo

Sample materials

Finally, click on the grade levels below to explore your requested sample units.

Each book in our authentic literature collection was selected specifically to support and enhance the content of the K-2 Conocimiento Strand. These anchor texts are intended for use as an introduction to each domain—engaging students, piquing their curiosity, and building initial background knowledge—before diving into the deeper content of the domain Read-Alouds.

Every trade book has an instructional guide that includes the following:

  • Author and illustrator
  • Book summary
  • The Essential Question of the Knowledge domain, connecting the book to the domain
  • Key Tier 2 and Tier 3 vocabulary words found in the book
  • A group activity to reinforce and extend students’ knowledge and understanding
  • A performance task to help gauge students’ comprehension of concepts in the text
  • Writing prompts to expand understanding and critical thinking
  • Text complexity ratings and descriptors for quantitative, qualitative, and reader/task categories

Download the Amplify Caminos Trade Book Collection Guide for Grades K–2.
Detailed information about text complexity ratings and descriptors; additional uses for the books before, during, and after domain instruction; and the complete list of domains and books for each grade level can be found in the More About the Books section of this guide.

Conocimiento Strand:

Lectoescritura Strand:

Conocimiento Strand:

Lectoescritura Strand:

Integrated Strand

Additional resources

Inspiring the next generation of Oklahoma scientists, engineers, and curious citizens

Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

A powerful partnership

Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.

Instructional model

The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:

DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit—from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.

TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full-class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.

READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation and, importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.

WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.

VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using modeling tools to craft visualizations of their thinking— just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.

Oklahoma Instructional Samplers

Video: Oklahoma Spotlight on All Learners (SPED, G & T, EL, DEI)

Kindergarten

Grade 1

Grade 2

Grade 3

Grade 4

Grade 5

Grade 6

Grade 7

Grade 8

Resources to support your review

Remote and hybrid learning support

Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Remote and Hybrid Learning

Amplify has launched a new remote learning solution called Amplify Science @Home. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science@Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units. 

Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August 2021.   

Amplify Science@Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @Home Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @Home unit includes:

  • Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
  • Overviews to send home to families.

Student materials are available in two formats:

  • @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
  • Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.

Download the remote and hybrid learning guide.

What’s included

Flexible resources that work seamlessly together
Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Instructional Resources: More than a textbook!

Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.

Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:

  • record data.
  • reflect on ideas from texts and investigations.
  • construct explanations and arguments.

Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and modeling tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:

  • conduct hands-on investigations.
  • engage in active reading and writing activities.
  • participate in discussions.
  • record observations.
  • craft end-of-unit scientific arguments.

Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Spotlight on Simulations

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • Classroom Slides.
  • detailed lesson plans.
  • unit and chapter overview documentation.
  • differentiation strategies.
  • standards alignments.
  • in-context professional development.

Oklahoma Spotlight Video: Classroom Slides

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:

  • consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials.
  • print classroom display materials.
  • premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc).

Scope and sequence

GRADE

UNITS

Kindergarten

  • Needs of Plants and Animals
  • Pushes and Pulls
  • Sunlight and Water

Grade 1

  • Animal and Plant Defenses
  • Light and Sound
  • Spinning Earth

Grade 2

  • Plant and Animal Relationships
  • Properties of Materials
  • Changing Landforms

Grade 3

  • Balancing Forces
  • Inheritance and Traits
  • Environments and Survival
  • Weather and Climate

Grade 4

  • Energy Conversions
  • Vision and Light
  • Earth’s Features
  • Waves, Energy, and Information

Grade 5

  • Patterns of Earth and Sky
  • Modeling Matter
  • The Earth System
  • Ecosystem Restoration

GRADE

UNITS

Grade 6

  • Launch: Microbiome
  • Metabolism
  • Plate Motion
  • Plate Motion Engineering Internship
  • Rock Transformations
  • Ocean, Atmosphere, and Climate
  • Weather Patterns
  • Thermal Energy
  • Phase Change

Grade 7

  • Launch: Harnessing Human Energy
  • Chemical Reactions
  • Populations and Resources
  • Matter Energy and Ecosystems
  • Earth’s Changing Climate
  • Earth’s Changing Climate Engineering Internship
  • Magnetic Fields

Grade 8

  • Launch: Geology on Mars
  • Force and Motion
  • Force and Motion Engineering Internship
  • Light Waves
  • Earth, Moon, and Sun
  • Traits and Reproduction
  • Natural Selection
  • Evolutionary History

Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science coverage

Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science (OASS) are closely aligned to the NGSS at K–8. The guidance below is meant to provide support for integrating additional activities that support full coverage of the OASS. You can view the full K–8 OASS correlation here.

Organized by grade level, each section below will outline:

  • additional activities that support 100% alignment to the Oklahoma Academic Standards for Science; 
  • the standard being addressed with the activities; 
  • the recommended placement of the activities within a specific Amplify Science unit; and 
  • PDFs of any accompanying materials that are necessary to implement the activities. 

Standard: 1.ESS3.1: Communicate solutions that will reduce the impact of humans on the land, water, air, and/or other living things in the local environment.

Recommended placement: Animal and Plant Defenses unit, Chapter 1

Materials: The Student Book Investigating Monarchs from the unit Needs of Plants and Animals

Investigating Monarchs emphasizes the needs of monarch caterpillars and butterflies and shows what happens when these animals are not able to meet their needs. The book first introduces the life cycle of monarchs, explaining that monarch caterpillars must eat milkweed to survive and change into butterflies. Their summer habitat must have milkweed. The butterflies then migrate a long distance, from the United States to a forest in the mountains of Mexico, where they take shelter in the trees. Their winter habitat must have trees. Scientists discovered that the monarch population in Mexico was greatly reduced because people were cutting down the trees. The forest was then protected, but the monarch population did not recover as expected. Scientists in the United States found evidence that this was because fields with milkweed are being replaced by farms and buildings. This book could be read with the class either before or after Chapter 1 of the Animal and Plant Defenses unit, which focuses on what plants and animals need to do to survive. Students could be asked to reflect on what the monarchs need to survive (including food and shelter), and how human activities impacted the monarchs’ ability to meet those needs. After reading the book, students could brainstorm ideas for how to reduce the impact of humans on the local environment.

Standard: MS-PS4-2: Develop and use a model to describe that waves are reflected, absorbed, or transmitted through various materials.

Recommended placement: Metabolism unit, Lesson 3.3, addition to Activity 5 

Materials: “What Eyes Can See” science article

As students investigate metabolism and the body systems, the article “What Eyes Can See” should be assigned to deepen their understanding of information processing and sense receptors and connect that understanding to the emerging idea of the interaction of waves with various materials. The article explores how the only thing we can really see is light. Light travels from a light source to the eye, passing through some materials and bouncing off others. Tiny organs inside the eye called rods and cones absorb energy from light, making vision possible. These interactions between light and materials determine our visible world. 

Instructions:

Download the PDF “What Eyes Can See” above and remind students of the Active Reading guidelines. Before students read the article, invite them to share prior experiences. For example, “Have you ever had an experience where something looked different in one kind of light than in another kind of light? Or where something seemed to appear or disappear when the light changed?”

Standard: MS-PS3-1: Construct and interpret graphical displays of data to describe the relationships of kinetic energy to the mass of an object and to the speed of an object.

Recommended placement: Harnessing Human Energy unit, Lesson 1.4, after Activity 4 

Materials: Force and Motion simulation; Activity instructions and copymasters

In this activity, students use the Force and Motion Simulation to investigate the relationship between kinetic energy, mass, and velocity. 

Instructions

Download the PDF linked above for the Lesson Guide and copymasters needed for the activity. Note that this investigation is typically implemented during the Force and Motion unit. This means the Lesson Guide will contain some incongruous labeling (e.g., unit name), as well as instructions that are out of context and unnecessary for the purposes of addressing this standard at grade 7. We suggest skipping to step 4 of the Instructional Guide to avoid some of this. Your students will get additional exposure to this activity, and indeed the standard as a whole, when they get to the Force and Motion unit in grade 8.

Standards:

  • MS-PS2-3: Ask questions about data to determine the factors that affect the strength of electric and magnetic forces.
  • MS-PS2-5: Conduct an investigation and evaluate the experimental design to provide evidence that fields exist between objects exerting forces on each other even though the objects are not in contact.

Recommended placement: Force and Motion unit, after Lesson 1.5 

Materials: Flextension PDF

This hands-on activity builds on and reinforces students’ understanding of forces that act at a distance, with a focus on electrostatic force. Students explore electrostatic forces, prompted by a set of challenges that they try to accomplish. Next, students generate scientific questions based on their observations. Electrostatic force is less predictable and consistent than magnetic force, and investigating it can be both challenging and intriguing. The purpose of this lesson is for students to gain firsthand experience with electrostatic force and to gain experience generating scientific questions based on observations. You might choose to include this Flextension if you would like your students to have more exposure to electrostatic force, and if you would like to challenge your students to explore and ask questions about a challenging type of force. 

Instructions:

Download the PDF linked above for a detailed Lesson Guide and the copymasters associated with the activity. Note that this activity is typically implemented as an add-on Flextension during the Magnetic Fields unit. This means that you will see some information that is out of context (e.g., placement information, unit title), but the activity itself also works for the purposes of the Force and Motion unit. If you have any questions, please reach out to our support team via the chat icon in your account or help@amplify.com. 

Explore the Digital Teacher’s Guide

When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide.

Review now

To help familiarize yourself with navigating the digital Teacher’s Guide, watch our navigational guide videos:

Grades K–5:

Grades 6–8:

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Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support

Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We’ve developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:

  • Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans.
  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs.
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.

To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call              (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com

Timely technical and program support

Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.

For your most urgent questions:

  • Use our live chat within your program.
  • Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969.

For less urgent questions:

Email support

Contact us

Contact your Oklahoma representative:
Julie Godfrey
Account Executive
jgodfrey@amplify.com
(817) 360-0527

Amplify Science – West Virginia – state review

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Learning mathematics through problem solving: Part 1

Productive struggle as a path to success

Many of us grew up with word problems as a part of math instruction, but we now know that students learn better when problems are more than just a part of learning. In fact, research shows that learning based on problem solving sets math students up for long-term success. 

Why problem-based learning matters 

What’s the problem with word problems? So-called “show-and-tell” pedagogies often rely on teachers demonstrating how to solve math problems, which doesn’t produce the kind of sticky learning that puts students on a path to long-term success. 

As a result, too few students are prepared for Algebra I. Even fewer go on to succeed in the high school math courses that are prerequisites for college and for careers that require quantitative skills.

Research published in Frank Lester’s 2003 book Research and Issues in Teaching Mathematics Through Problem Solving shows that instruction is more effective when the students themselves grapple actively with the math problems, working in groups or individually. This productive-struggle approach is often called problem-based learning. 

What problem-based learning looks like 

In a problem-based lesson, students are introduced to a handful of interesting and often real-world problems or tasks that can be understood and/or solved by referencing background knowledge, previously learned content, and newly provided information. 

These problems are designed to get students thinking about solutions they can then discuss with their peers. According to 2019 research conducted by Jack Dieckmann and Renae Skarin, this fosters both understanding of the content and math language development.

Over the course of the problem-based lesson, the teacher monitors student work, selects examples of that work to discuss with the class, and asks questions that propel the conversation and learning forward (as described by Margaret Schwan Smith and Mary Kay Stein in their 2011 book Five Practices for Orchestrating Productive Mathematics Discussions.

This synthesis incorporates students’ new insights and conceptions into their bigger-picture understanding of mathematics.

Problem-based math programs 

There are already high-quality curricula that call for this kind of pedagogy, but this approach can be hard to implement because it requires both a shift in practice for many teachers and more active engagement from students.

That’s why the highest-quality problem-based lessons embody all eight of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM) Teaching Practices. Amplify Math is one of them. 

Amplify Caminos for SFUSD

Amplify Caminos is an authentic elementary Spanish language arts program. Like its English language counterpart, Amplify CKLA, Amplify Caminos provides explicit, systematic foundational skills instruction sequenced with deep knowledge-building content to foster comprehension. When used with Amplify CKLA, Amplify Caminos provides full parity across English and Spanish that’s suitable for any dual language implementation model.

Colorful illustration featuring a child in traditional Andean clothing, tropical plants, a volcano, a toucan, a horse rider, and the word "Gracias!" written in Spanish.

Amplify and SFUSD Partnership

We recognize and respect the unique differences of each of our partnering districts—and that includes San Francisco USD.

Out of the box, Amplify Caminos offers districts a rich, comprehensive, research-based SELA experience. That said, no two districts are exactly alike. To that end, we are committed to working with San Francisco USD to ensure that Amplify Caminos addresses the needs of your community. This includes providing implementation guidance and support, as well as collaborating with your staff to determine which domains need to be modified or exchanged.

What is Amplify Caminos?

Amplify Caminos is a core Spanish language arts program for grades TK–5 that delivers:

  • Authentic instruction built from the ground up for the Spanish language.
  • A unique research-based approach truly built on the Science of Reading.
  • A combination of explicit foundational skills with meaningful knowledge-building.
  • Embedded support and differentiation that gets all students reading grade-level texts together.
  • Opportunities for students to see the strengths and experiences that all people share while also celebrating each others’ unique identities and experiences.

Watch the video below to learn more about Amplify Caminos for Grades K–2.

Watch the video below to learn more about Amplify Caminos for Grades 3–5.

How does Amplify Caminos work?

Amplify Caminos is built on the science of how kids learn to read—in Spanish.

Amplify Caminos is all about helping you teach students how to read, all while giving them authentic and engaging reasons to read. That’s why Amplify Caminos develops foundational skills and builds knowledge in tandem.

  • Knowledge: Through complex and authentic Spanish read-alouds with an emphasis on classroom interactivity, oral comprehension, and contextual vocabulary, students start to build their awareness of the world around them—and the way the reading skills they’re building give them access to it.
  • Skills: Starting with the sounds at the core of the Spanish
    language, students practice their phonemic awareness, handwriting skills, vocabulary, spelling, and grammar. Through daily practice, students become aware of the connection between reading and writing, building confidence as they go.
A diagram illustrating reading development as intertwined strands: language comprehension and word recognition, progressing from basic skills to increasingly strategic and automatic reading.

Respecting the development differences between grade ranges, Amplify Caminos teaches foundational skills and background knowledge as two distinct strands in grades K–2, and combines them into one integrated strand in grades 3–5.

Grades K–2:
Every day, students in grades K–2 complete one full lesson that explicitly and systematically builds foundational reading skills in the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura strand, as well as one full lesson that builds robust background knowledge to access complex text in the Amplify Caminos Conocimiento strand. Through learning in each of these strands, students develop the early literacy skills necessary to help them become confident readers and build the context to understand what they’re reading.

Grades 3–5:
In grades 3–5, the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura and Conocimiento strands are integrated in one set of instructional materials. Lessons begin to combine skills and knowledge with increasingly complex texts, close reading, and a greater writing emphasis. Students can then use their skills to go on their own independent reading adventures.

What do Amplify Caminos students explore?

Amplify Caminos builds students’ knowledge about the world.

In addition to teaching all students to crack the written code (which is vital for fairness), the Amplify Caminos program helps students see the strengths and experiences we all share while celebrating their own unique identities and experiences.

This is accomplished through the exploration of topics and text that feature people who resemble students and familiar situations or experiences while also exposing them to people whose appearances, lives, beliefs, and backgrounds differ from their own.

Engaging domains

Amplify Caminos builds knowledge coherently across subjects and grades.

Throughout the program, students use their skills to explore domains that relate to storytelling, science, and the history of our world as seen through the eyes of many different groups.

Carefully selected to build from year-to-year, our grade-appropriate topics help students make and deepen connections while also reading, writing, and thinking creatively and for themselves.

Curriculum flowchart showing reading themes and activities from Kindergarten to Grade 5, organized by grade level and literary theme, with interconnected boxes for each topic.

New Knowledge Research Units for Grades K–5

Our brand-new Knowledge Research units carry forward Amplify Caminos’ powerful and proven instructional approach while also:

  • Adding more content for students from all walks of life. The rich topics and highly visual components featured in these units provide students with even more “windows and mirrors” and perspectives as they work to build knowledge.
  • Adding more authentic literature. Each new research unit revolves around a collection of high-interest authentic trade books that will spark more curiosity and inspire more inquiry.
  • Adding more flexibility. Units can be implemented for extended core instruction during flex periods, district-designated Pausing Points, or enrichment periods.

Units cover a variety of rich and relevant topics:

With these new units, students will soar to new heights with Dr. Ellen Ochoa, Amelia Earhart, and the Tuskegee Airmen. They’ll feel the rhythm as they learn about Jazz legends Miles Davis, Tito Puente, and Duke Ellington. And they’ll explore the far reaches of the world with Jacques Cousteau, Matthew Henson, and Eugenie Clark.

  • Grade K: El arte y el mundo que nos rodea
  • Grade 1: Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra
  • Grade 2: ¡A volar! La era de la aviación
  • Grade 3: Jazz y más
  • Grade 4: Energía: pasado, presente y futuro
  • Grade 5: Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente

Units will be made available in English and Spanish, and will include the following components:

  • Teacher Guide
  • Student Activity Books
  • Image Cards
  • Trade Book Collection
  • Digital Components (for Grades K–3 and Grade 5 only)

Why we added this unit:
“Every child is an artist,” said Picasso, meaning that every child uses art to explore and understand the world around them. El arte y el mundo que nos rodea honors that truth by introducing Kindergarten students to some of the ways in which artists have explored and understood the world around them.

This domain introduces students to artists from different time periods, countries, and cultures. Throughout the unit, students learn about different kinds of art and how artists use the world around them as they make art. They also connect this to what they have already learned about the earth, plants, and animals in other Caminos domains: Granjas, Plantas, and Cuidar el planeta Tierra. In addition, students connect this to what they have learned about sculptors in the Presidentes y símbolos de los Estados Unidos domain. As they explore different artists and artistic traditions, they develop their ideas about how humans are connected to each other and to the world around them.

As you read the texts in this unit, students may observe ways in which the characters or subjects are both similar to and different from students. This is a good opportunity to teach students awareness and sensitivity, building on the idea that all people share some things in common, even as they have other things that make them unique. This unit also offers an excellent opportunity to collaborate with your school’s art teacher, as many lessons have suggested activities to help students understand the kind of art they are studying.

Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Use details to describe art.
  • Identify three ways to create art.
  • Identify characteristics of cave art.
  • Sequence the steps of making pottery.
  • Describe how artists can create work connected to the world around them.
  • Describe what makes Kehinde Wiley’s portraits unique.
  • Explain how the texture of a surface can affect artwork created on it.
  • Explain what a sculpture is.
  • Describe what makes James Turrell’s artwork about the sky unique.
  • Explain what a museum is and what kinds of things you can see or do there.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Georgia O’Keeffe por Erica Salcedo
  • Yayoi Kusama: De aquí al infinito por Sarah Suzuki
  • Tejedora del arcoíris por Linda Elovitz Marshall
  • Las tijeras de Matisse por Jeanette Winter
  • El museo por Susan Verde
  • Quizás algo hermoso: Cómo el arte transformó un barrio por F. Isabel Campoy

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
This domain introduces students to adventure stories set around the world and challenges students to dig into the adventures through research. By listening to the Read-Alouds and trade books, students increase their vocabulary and reading comprehension skills, learn valuable lessons about perseverance and teamwork, and become familiar with gathering information for research.

In this unit, students study the careers of real-world explorers Dr. Eugenie Clark and Sophia Danenberg, marvel at the inventions of Jacques Cousteau, think critically about how teamwork and collaboration can make greater adventures possible, learn about the science and technology that enable adventures, and research some of the ways humans have confronted challenges at the edges of the world, from the oceans below to space above.

Each lesson in the domain builds students’ research skills as they ask questions, gather information, and write a paragraph about their findings. Students share what they have learned about adventures in an Adventure Gallery Walkthrough. By taking on the persona of one of the adventurers they meet in the Read-Alouds and trade books, students deliver their final paragraphs as if they are a “speaking portrait” of that person. Students are invited to dress up as that adventurer if they desire.

In addition, teachers can set aside time outside the instructional block to create the picture frames students will hold as they present to the Adventure Gallery Walk guests. Frames can be made from shirt boxes, cardboard, construction paper, or any art supplies that are on hand. This might be an opportunity to collaborate with the school’s art department if resources are available. Another option is to ask students to make their frames at home with their caregivers. On the day of the Adventure Gallery Walk, students will be the hosts and take on specific jobs, such as welcoming the guests, describing their work throughout the unit, and pointing out the areas of study on the domain bulletin board. You can find a complete list of student jobs in Lesson 13.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in the previous grade.

  • Rimas y fábulas infantiles (Kindergarten)
  • Cuentos (Kindergarten)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Cuentos de aventuras: relatos desde los confines de la Tierra. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • My Name Is Gabito/Me llamo Gabito por Monica Brown
  • Galápagos Girl/Galapagueña por Marsha Diane Arnold
  • My Name Is Gabriela/Me llamo Gabriela por Monica Brown
  • El viaje de Kalak por María Quintana Silva y Marie-Noëlle Hébert
  • Señorita Mariposa por Ben Gundersheimer
  • Sharuko, el arqueólogo peruano/Peruvian Archaeologist Julio C. Tello por Monica Brown
  • Abuelita fue al mercado por Stella Blackstone

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
With this domain, students head up, up, and away with an introduction to the soaring history of aviation. Students learn the stories of early aviators, such as the Montgolfier brothers, the Wright brothers, Aida de Acosta, and Amelia Earhart.

During the unit, students study the science of flight, including the physics concept of lift, and research the social impacts of the world of flight. Finally, students let their research skills take flight as they explore key figures from the world of aviation.

The lessons in this domain build on earlier Grade 2 Caminos domains about the westward expansion, early Greek civilizations, and Greek myths, and lay the foundation for learning about other periods of world history in future grades.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered earlier in the year.

  • La civilización griega antigua (Grade 2)
  • Mitos griegos (Grade 2)
  • La expansión hacia el oeste (Grade 2)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in ¡A volar! La era de la aviación. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • ¡A volar! Todo sobre aviones por Jennifer Prior
  • Amelia sabe volar por Mara dal Corso
  • Héroes de la aviación que cambiaron el mundo por Dan Green
  • El niño que alcanzó las estrellas por José M. Hernández
  • La niña que aprendió a volar por Sylvia Acevedo
  • Buenas Noches Capitán Mamá por Graciela Tiscareño-Sato

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
This domain teaches students about the vibrant music, poetry, and culture of the Jazz Age in the United States. Students learn about famous writers and musicians like Langston Hughes, Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Melba Liston, Tito Puente, and Miles Davis. They study how the jazz art form took root in the South, then spread to the North to become the sound of the Harlem Renaissance, eventually connecting people around the world in musical expression.

During this unit, students perform guided research to further explore both the history of jazz and what jazz is today. They develop research skills and then use those skills to find deeper connections between the stories and music of the Jazz Age and music today. As students learn about the world of jazz, they collaborate and share ideas with their classmates. They also practice sharing feedback focused on their written work, and, at the end of the unit, students present their research to the group.

The lessons give students opportunities to dive into the rhythms and stories of jazz, utilizing the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about jazz, jazz musicians, contemporary musicians from the state where they live or have lived, and the evolution of jazz music.
  • Utilize Read-Alouds, independent reading, and partner reading to learn about the Jazz Age, the Harlem Renaissance, jazz music, and biographies of celebrated jazz musicians and writers.
  • Research the answers to their generated questions, gather information, write a short research essay about a famous jazz musician, write a short essay about a contemporary musician from the state where they live or have lived, and give a presentation about their research.

How this unit builds knowledge:
Within this unit, students have opportunities to:

  • Ask relevant questions and make pertinent comments
  • Identify details in texts
  • Determine key ideas of texts by evaluating details
  • Make text-based inferences
  • Generate questions based on prior knowledge and gathered information
  • Synthesize details across texts to demonstrate comprehension
  • Discuss and explain an author’s purpose
  • Identify and cite reliable primary and secondary sources of information
  • Compose a well-organized and focused informative essay
  • Make connections between topics
  • Present information using appropriate media

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • ¡Esquivel! Un artista del sonido de la era espacial por Susan Wood
  • Ray Charles por Sharon Bell Mathis
  • Tito Puente, el Rey del Mambo por Monica Brown
  • Me llamo Celia, la vida de Celia Cruz por Monica Brown
  • ¡Azúcar! por Ivar Da Coll

In this unit, students also read the poem “Harlem” by Langston Hughes. (Available for free through the Academy of American Poets website and the Poetry Foundation website, with recorded audio available through the website for John Hancock College Preparatory High School.)

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
With this domain, students become tomorrow’s problem solvers in this study of energy in the United States. Analytical reading skills are developed by examining the challenges of early energy innovators. Students then read about current energy practices and young energy change-makers across the world.

Throughout the unit, students conduct research into different sources of energy and present a proposal, putting them in the shoes of future energy innovators. They also use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively analyze texts to identify cause-effect and problem-solution relationships.
  • Generate questions and conduct research about energy.
  • Write an opinion essay making their case for a fuel of the future.
  • Create energy proposals using primary and secondary resources.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in previous grades as well as earlier in the year.

  • Plantas (Grade K)
  • La historia de la Tierra (Grade 1)
  • ¡Eureka! Estudiante inventor (Grade 4)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Energía: pasado, presente y futuro. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • La historia de los combustibles fósiles por William B. Rice
  • El niño que domó el viento por William Kamkwamba y Bryan Mealer

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Why we added this unit:
Within this domain, Students learn about General Granger’s announcement in Galveston, Texas on June 19, 1865, a day marked in history as Juneteenth. Texts and multimedia sources will support foundational knowledge-building about the end of slavery in the United States. A review of the first freedom announcement, President Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, provides students with background knowledge to further emphasize the significance of Juneteenth in American history.

This unit also takes students on a journey beyond Juneteenth, as they study specific contributions of African Americans from 1865 to the present day. Students participate in a virtual field trip to Emancipation Park in Houston, Texas and use the knowledge sequence in this unit to:

  • Collaboratively generate research questions about Juneteenth, The Great Migration, innovators and inventors, education, the humanities, activists, and allies.
  • Use Read-Alouds, independent, and partner reading to learn about African American contributions from 1865 to the present.
  • Research to find answers to their generated questions, gather information, and write a four-chapter Beyond Juneteenth book.

How this unit builds knowledge:
This unit builds upon the following Caminos units that students will have encountered in previous grades.

  • Los nativos americanos (Grade K)
  • Una nueva nación: la independencia de los Estados Unidos (Grade 1)
  • La Guerra Civil de los Estaods Unidos (Grade 2)
  • La inmigración (Grade 2)
  • Los nativos americanos (Grade 5)

The specific core content targeted in these domains is particularly relevant to the Read-Alouds students will hear in Más allá de Juneteenth: de 1865 al presente
. The background knowledge students bring to this unit will greatly enhance their understanding of the trade books used in this unit.

Trade books in this unit:
Instruction in this unit revolves around the following collection of high-interest authentic trade books. One copy of each trade book is included with the unit materials.

  • Martí’s Song for Freedom/Martí y sus versos por la libertad escrito por Emma Otheguy
  • ¡Celebremos Juneteenth! escrito por Carole Boston Weatherford
  • Side by Side/Lado a Lado: The Story of Dolores Huerta and Cesar Chavez/La Historia de Dolores Huerta y César Chávez escrito por Monica Brown
  • Canto de alabanza para el día: Poema para la ceremonia inaugural del mandato de Barack Obama escrito por Elizabeth Alexander, traducido por Rodrigo Rojas

Sample materials:
Take a sneak peek at the rich instruction and engaging activities for this unit by viewing the PDFs below.

Wide-ranging texts

Amplify Caminos puts a variety of texts in the hands of students every day.

Amplify Caminos includes both transadaptations and authentic texts written by Latin American and Spanish authors. Our texts feature a wide variety of authors, topics, individuals and characters representing many different socioeconomic statuses, ages, abilities, races, ethnicities, countries of origin, religions, and more.

Amplify Caminos texts include:

  • Authentic literature: Authentic literature exposes students to a variety of text types and perspectives to deepen their knowledge of fascinating topics in social studies, science, literature, and the arts. Authentic texts support text-to-self, text-to-world, and text-to-text connections for readers.
  • Decodable Student Readers: Decodable Student Readers at grades K–2 are newly redesigned to include students from all walks of life and educational backgrounds. They feature characters with a broad range of backgrounds, experiences, ages, races, religions, and more.
  • ReadWorks® texts: Amplify and ReadWorks have partnered to deliver high-quality texts curated to support the Amplify Caminos Knowledge Sequence and to extend student learning. Texts include high-interest nonfiction articles in topics in social studies, science, literature, and the arts. These texts are accompanied by vocabulary supports and standards-aligned formative assessment opportunities. Teachers can monitor their students’ progress using the ReadWorks reporting features.
Three children's book covers in Spanish are shown: "La Flor de Oro," "El conejo en la Luna," and "El secreto de las hormigas," each featuring illustrated artwork.

Amplify Caminos Trade Book Collection Guide

Each book in our authentic literature collection was selected specifically to support and enhance the content of the K-2 Conocimiento Strand. These anchor texts are intended for use as an introduction to each domain—engaging students, piquing their curiosity, and building initial background knowledge—before diving into the deeper content of the domain Read-Alouds.

Every trade book has an instructional guide that includes the following:

  • Author and illustrator
  • Book summary
  • The Essential Question of the Knowledge domain, connecting the book to the domain
  • Key Tier 2 and Tier 3 vocabulary words found in the book
  • A group activity to reinforce and extend students’ knowledge and understanding
  • A performance task to help gauge students’ comprehension of concepts in the text
  • Writing prompts to expand understanding and critical thinking
  • Text complexity ratings and descriptors for quantitative, qualitative, and reader/task categories

Download the Amplify Caminos Trade Book Collection Guide for Grades K–2.

Detailed information about text complexity ratings and descriptors; additional uses for the books before, during, and after domain instruction; and the complete list of domains and books for each grade level can be found in the More About the Books section of this guide.

What makes Amplify Caminos different?

Built on the Science of Reading

Built out of the latest research in the Science of Reading, Amplify Caminos delivers explicit instruction in both foundational literacy skills (systematic phonics, decoding, and fluency) and background knowledge in grades K–2 with an integrated approach to explicit instruction in grades 3–5.

Flowchart showing "Language comprehension" times "Word recognition" equals "Skilled reading," with text in both Spanish and English inside orange boxes.

Explicit systematic skills instruction

The skills instruction in Amplify Caminos was distinctly developed with the Spanish language in mind. Its foundational lessons are specific to the language, rather than a direct translation from Amplify CKLA’s English skills instruction.

Reading instruction begins with the vowels first, then the most common consonants, and finally the least common consonants. Students will blend and segment sounds to form syllables, and syllables to form words.

Although Spanish has a highly predictable orthography, there are a few silent letters (h is always silent, u is silent after g or q), as well as letters that can make different sounds, depending on the letters that follow them. For that reason, syllables with these letters are taught somewhat later in the progression. The same is true for syllables with infrequently occurring consonants, such as z, k, x, and w.

Coherent knowledge instruction

While students are learning how to read, the Conocimiento strand gives them authentic and engaging reasons to read.

Amplify Caminos uses spiral learning to reinforce every student’s ability to develop skills like reading, writing, speaking, and listening in Spanish that can be transferred to English. As students engage with their lessons, they explore the similarities and differences in grammar, vocabulary, writing, and language use between Spanish and English. This bridge helps students learning two languages to strengthen their knowledge in both.

Through cross-curricular content, students explore units that relate to storytelling, science, and the history of our world in a holistic and thoughtful way. With these units, you’ll bring the world to your students, showing them how reading can become an exciting, rewarding, and useful part of their lives.

Embedded differentiation for all learners

Amplify Caminos provides built-in differentiation strategies and supports in every lesson.

  • Apoyo a la enseñanza y desafío: Support and Challenge suggestions in every lesson provide assistance or opportunities for more advanced work toward the goal of the lesson.
  • Notas culturales: These point-of-use notes provide additional information about the traditions, foods, holidays, word variations, and more from across the Spanish-speaking world.
  • Apoyo adicional: Every lesson in the Lectoescritura (Skills) Strand provides additional support activities suggested to reinforce foundational skills instruction. These activities can be given to any student who requires extra help, including students with special needs.

Systematic and cohesive writing instruction

Writing instruction in Amplify Caminos builds systematically and cohesively within and across grades.

In Grades K-2, writing mechanics—including handwriting and spelling—are taught in the Amplify Caminos Lectoescritura strand. Starting in Grade 1, instruction includes four steps in the writing process: planning, drafting, editing, and publishing and features lessons that have modeling, collaboration, and sharing. As students gain skills and confidence, they are able to take on more of these steps independently. Students learn to use planning techniques, including brainstorming and graphic organizers.

Beginning in Grade 4, the Amplify Caminos writing process expands to also include sharing and evaluating. In Grades 4 and 5, the writing process is no longer conceptualized as a series of scaffolded, linear steps (an important change from the Grade 3 writing process). Rather, students move between components of the writing process in a flexible manner, similar to the process mature and experienced writers follow naturally.

young male students writing with a pencil

Amplify Caminos’ writing instruction provides a clear progression through the text types in each grade.

Because Amplify Caminos has two strands of lessons in Grades K-2, Lectoescritura and Conocimiento, students are exposed to both narrative and informational texts throughout the year. In Grades 3-5, the integrated units feature study in literary, informational, or a mix of both types of texts, depending on the content of the unit.

  • Grades K–2 introduce and establish the key elements of each text type, allowing students to gain comfort and confidence writing narratives, opinions, and informative texts. This enables students to practice thinking about content in different ways, offering more depth and breadth to their understanding of core content and of the writing text types.
  • By Grade 3, students will have gained significant practice in narrative, opinion/argumentative, and informational/explanatory forms of writing and will continue to apply those skills through Grade 5.

How does Amplify Caminos integrate with the other parts of the literacy system?

Amplify Caminos + mCLASS® Lectura

Achieve complete parity between English and Spanish assessments with mCLASS Lectura for K–6. mCLASS Lectura allows teachers to connect with their Spanish-speaking students face-to-face, one-on-one, and in the language most comfortable to them. The result? Valid and reliable student data reports
available in both English and Spanish, enabling teachers to pinpoint where their Spanish-speaking or emergent bilingual students really are in their skill development and what instruction to prioritize.

A laptop screen displays a slide describing the Lectura data-driven instructional cycle with sections for Assessment, Reporting, and Instruction, each illustrated with sample interface screenshots.

Amplify Caminos + Amplify Reading

Amplify Reading is an engaging, adaptive digital program that extends the learning in Amplify Caminos. Amplify Reading offers support to a large sub-group of English learners (ELs) through Spanish voice-over. Spanish voiceover instructions are available in vocabulary and sentence-level comprehension games so ELs can build their vocabulary, language, and critical comprehension skills before moving into analyzing complex texts

Language selection screen with options for English and Spanish, and an illustrated girl saying “¡Hola!” in a speech bubble. The heading reads “Idiomas.”.

Demo access and sample materials

Ready to explore on your own? First, watch the videos below to learn about the program’s components and how to navigate the digital platform.

Physical materials walkthrough video

Digital navigation video

Demo access

Next, follow the instructions below to access your demo account.

  • Click the CKLA and Caminos Demo button below.
  • Select Log in with Amplify.
  • To explore as a teacher, enter this username: t1.sfusdreviewer@demo.tryamplify.net
  • To explore as a student, enter this username: s1.sfusdreviewer@demo.tryamplify.net
  • Enter the password: Amplify1-sfusdreviewer
  • Click the Programs and apps menu
  • Select CKLA Teacher Resource Site
  • Select the desire grade level
  • Use the toggle to switch between English (CKLA) and Spanish (Caminos) resources.
CKLA and Caminos Demo

Sample materials

Finally, click on the grade levels below to explore your requested sample units.

Conocimiento Strand:

Lectoescritura Strand:

Conocimiento Strand:

Lectoescritura Strand:

Integrated Strand

Additional resources

Acceptable Use Policy

Amplify Education, Inc. (“Amplify”) products support classroom instruction and learning and include Amplify CKLA, Amplify ELA, Amplify Science, Amplify Desmos Math, Desmos Math, Boost Reading, Boost Math, mCLASS, Mathigon, services at classroom.amplify.com (for creating and assigning activities) and student.amplify.com (for use of the activities or curricula as directed by an instructor), and any other product or service that links to this Acceptable Use Policy (together, the “Products”). This Acceptable Use Policy (the “AUP”) provides the general terms and conditions applicable to your use of the Products. By accessing, downloading, or using the Products, you agree to be bound by the terms of this AUP. 

Notwithstanding the foregoing, nothing in this AUP supersedes or limits your rights under the terms of any other agreement you or your institution have entered into with Amplify regarding the use of Products. In the event of any conflict between the AUP and the terms and conditions of an applicable agreement that you or your institution have entered into with Amplify, the terms and conditions of such agreement shall control.

Our Products are geared towards K–12 students, educators, and staff who use the Products as authorized by their School District or State Agency (each as defined in the Privacy Policy (defined below), and together, “School”) (“Authorized School Users”). Student Data (defined below) is owned and controlled by the School, and Amplify receives Student Data as a “school official” under Section 99.31 of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 (“FERPA”) for the purpose of providing the Products hereunder. In addition, we rely on the School acknowledging that it is acting as the parent’s agent and consenting on the parent’s behalf to process personal information of students under the age of 13 (“Child Users”) in accordance with the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (“COPPA”). 

Schools may provide authorization in two ways: 

(1) by the School agreeing to our Customer Terms and Conditions located at amplify.com/customer-terms or another agreement between Amplify and the School, as applicable; or 

(2) by an educator, staff member, or agent of a School (“Educator”) agreeing to this AUP. If you are an Educator and wish to use the Products in your classroom, you represent and warrant that the use of the Products in your classroom has been authorized by your School, and that you are authorized to accept this AUP on behalf of the School.

In each case, we provide these Products solely for the benefit of the School and for no other commercial purpose. We require all Schools to review our Privacy Policy, available at amplify.com/customer-privacy (“Privacy Policy”), and to make a copy of the Privacy Policy available to the parents or guardians of Child Users.

We also provide limited opportunities for individual users to sign up for a restricted account for at-home use of our Products (together, with Authorized School Users, “Authorized Users”). Please see Additional terms for Mathigon and Amplify Classroom accounts (Section 18) for additional information.

1. License

Subject to compliance with this AUP, you are granted a non-transferable, non-exclusive, non-sublicensable license to access and use the Products. You understand that your use of the Products does not confer to you any intellectual property rights held by Amplify or its licensors. Unless otherwise indicated, any future release, update, or other addition to functionality or content of the Products will be subject to this AUP. 

2. Restrictions

You may access and use the Products solely for non-commercial instructional and administrative purposes. Guidelines for such purposes may be set forth at http://amplify.com/amplify-program-usage-guidelines and additional guidelines may be detailed in materials associated with the Product You are accessing. Further, You may not, except as expressly authorized by Amplify: (a) copy, modify, translate, distribute, disclose, or create derivative works based on the contents of, sell, or otherwise exploit, the Products, or any part thereof; (b) decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer the Products, or otherwise use the Products to develop functionally similar products or services; (c) modify, alter, or delete any of the copyright, trademark, or other proprietary notices in or on the Products; (d) rent, lease, or lend the Products or use the Products for the benefit of any third party; (e) avoid, circumvent, or disable any security or digital rights management device, procedure, protocol, or mechanism in the Products; (f) use any content from the Products, including but not limited to text, images, videos, assessments, lesson plans, or code, as input or training material for any machine learning or artificial intelligence system, including large language models, neural networks, or other algorithmic models, for any purposes, commercial or non-commercial; or (g) permit any Authorized User or third party to do any of the foregoing. You also agree that any works created in violation of this section are derivative works, and, as such, You agree to assign, and hereby assign, all right, title, and interest in such works to Amplify. The Products and derivatives thereof may be subject to export control laws, restrictions, regulations, and orders of the U.S. and other jurisdictions (together, “Export Laws”). You agree to comply with all applicable Export Laws, and will not, and will not permit Authorized Users to, export, or transfer for the purpose of re-export, any Product to any prohibited or embargoed country in violation of any U.S. export law or regulation. Further, You represent that You are not located in a country that is subject to a U.S. Government embargo, subject to sanctions by the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control, or included on any restricted party list maintained by the U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security. The software and associated documentation portions of the Products are “commercial items” (as defined at 48 CFR 2.101), comprising “commercial computer software” and “commercial computer software documentation,” as those terms are used in 48 CFR 12.212. Accordingly, if You are associated with the U.S. Government or its contractor, You will receive only those rights set forth in this Agreement in accordance with 48 CFR 227.7201-227.7204 (for Department of Defense and their contractors) or 48 CFR 12.212 (for other U.S. Government licensees and their contractors).

3. Use of the products

In connection with your access to and use of the Products, you agree not to: (a) post, upload, or otherwise transmit or link to content that is: unlawful; threatening; harmful; abusive; pornographic or includes nudity; offensive; harassing; excessively violent; tortious; defamatory; false or misleading; obscene; vulgar; libelous; hateful; or discriminatory; (b) violate the rights of others, including patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, privacy, publicity, contract, or other proprietary rights; (c) harass or harm another person; (d) exploit or endanger a minor; (e) impersonate any person or entity; (f) introduce or engage in activity that involves the use of viruses, bots, worms, Trojan horses, time bombs, spyware, or any other computer code, files, or programs that interrupt, destroy, or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment, or otherwise permit the unauthorized access to or use of a computer or a computer network; (g) interfere with, damage, disable, disrupt, impair, create an undue burden on, or gain unauthorized access to the Products or any account (as defined below), or Amplify’s servers or networks; (h) restrict or inhibit any other person from using the Products (including by hacking or defacing the Products); (i) remove, disable, block, or obscure any portion of the Products; (j) use technology or any automated system, such as scripts or bots, to collect user names, passwords, email addresses, or any other data from or through the Products, or to circumvent or modify any security technology or software that is part of the Products; (k) send or cause to send (directly or indirectly) unsolicited bulk messages or other unsolicited bulk communications of any kind through the Products; (l) solicit, collect, or request any information for commercial or unlawful purposes; (m) post, upload, or otherwise transmit an image, audio recording, or video of another person without that person’s consent; (n) use the Products to advertise, promote, or engage in any commercial activity (including engaging in advertising, sales, contests, sweepstakes, or other promotions) without Amplify’s prior written consent; (o) frame or mirror the Products without Amplify’s express prior written consent; (p) use the Products in a manner inconsistent with any applicable law, rule, or regulation; (q) use any robot, spider, search/retrieval application, or other manual or automatic device to retrieve, index, “scrape,” “data mine,” or in any way gather content of the Products or reproduce or circumvent the navigational structure or presentation of the Products; (r) attempt, facilitate, or encourage others to do any of the foregoing. In addition to the foregoing restrictions, your use of the Products may also be subject to an additional acceptable use policy provided to you by your School, as applicable. You are responsible for meeting the hardware, software, telecommunications, and other requirements listed at amplify.com/customer-requirements.

4. Intellectual property

The Products and any Product logo, and certain other of the names, logos, and materials displayed in the Products, may constitute trademarks, trade names, or service marks (“Marks”) of Amplify or other entities. You are not authorized to use any such Marks. Ownership of all such Marks and the goodwill associated therewith remains with Amplify or those other entities. The content provided to you in the Products, including the software, graphs, text, and graphics, is protected under copyright laws, is subject to other intellectual property and proprietary rights and laws, and is owned by Amplify or its licensors. Your access to the Products does not transfer to you or any third party any rights, title, or interest in or to such intellectual property rights. You may not use the content of the Products, in whole or in part, to train or fine-tune any machine learning or artificial intelligence model or system, including for research, product development, commercial services, or any other purpose, commercial or non-commercial. Such use constitutes unauthorized derivative work and a violation of Amplify’s intellectual property rights. Your rights to make use of the Products are limited to those provided under this AUP, any additional terms as may be agreed upon between your School and Amplify, and any available exceptions under applicable intellectual property laws. Amplify Products are protected by patents (see amplify.com/virtual-patent-marking).

5. Account information

Your authentication to enable your access and use of these Products is based in part upon information supplied by you. You are required to (a) provide accurate information to Amplify and promptly report any changes to such information, (b) not share or allow others to use your account, (c) maintain the confidentiality and security of your account information, and (d) use the Products solely via such authorized accounts. You may not share your credentials (i.e., username and password) to access the Products with anyone except the person for whom that account was created. You agree to notify Amplify immediately of any unauthorized use of your account or related authentication information. Amplify will not be responsible for any losses arising out of the unauthorized use of your account.

6. Student data

The parties acknowledge and agree that in the course of providing the Products, Amplify may collect, receive, or generate information that directly relates to an identifiable current or former student of a School (“Student Data”). Student Data may include personal information from a student’s “educational records,” as defined by FERPA. Student Data is owned and controlled by the School and Amplify receives Student Data as a “school official” under Section 99.31 of FERPA for the purpose of providing the Products hereunder. Individually and collectively, Amplify and School agree to uphold our obligations, as applicable, under FERPA, COPPA, the Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment (“PPRA”), and applicable state laws relating to Student Data privacy. Amplify’s Privacy Policy governs the collection, use, and disclosure of Student Data collected or stored on behalf of the School under this AUP. The School is responsible for providing notice or obtaining appropriate consents under applicable laws to authorize Authorized School Users’ use of the Products, including making a copy of the Privacy Policy available to the parents or guardians of Child Users. Please see Additional Terms for Mathigon and Amplify Classroom accounts (Section 18) for additional information.

7. Confidentiality

You acknowledge that in connection with these terms, Amplify may provide you with certain sensitive or proprietary information (“Confidential Information”), including software, source code, assessment instruments, research, designs, methods, processes, customer lists, training materials, product documentation, know-how, or trade secrets, in whatever form. You agree (a) not to use Confidential Information for any purpose other than use of the Products in accordance with the AUP, and (b) to take all steps reasonably necessary to maintain and protect the Confidential Information of Amplify in strict confidence. Confidential Information shall not include information that, as evidenced by your contemporaneous written records: (i) is or becomes publicly available through no fault of your own; (ii) is rightfully known to you prior to the time of its disclosure; (iii) has been independently developed by you without any use of the Confidential Information; or (iv) is subsequently learned from a third party not under any confidentiality obligation.  

8. User materials

You represent, warrant, and covenant that you have all the necessary rights, including consents and intellectual property rights, in connection with any data, information, content, and other materials provided to or collected by Amplify from you or on your behalf in connection with your use of the Products, including materials and content that you post, upload, transmit, email, or otherwise make available on, through, or in connection with the Products (“User Materials”), and that except as otherwise agreed by your School and Amplify, you retain any ownership rights that you have in your User Materials. You hereby grant to Amplify and its affiliates, licensees, and authorized users, a perpetual, non-exclusive, fully paid-up, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers), transferable (in whole or in part), worldwide license to use, modify, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and compilations based upon, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such User Materials in connection with the Products, subject to Amplify’s Privacy Policy. You and your School are responsible for the accuracy, integrity, completeness, quality, legality, and safety of such User Materials. You further represent and warrant that the posting of such User Materials through or in connection with the Products does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights, or any other rights of any person or entity. Amplify and your School reserve the right (but have no obligation) to monitor the Products, including for inappropriate content or conduct, and to remove any content in their discretion without liability to you or any third party. Further, Amplify reserves the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action against anyone who, in Amplify’s discretion, violates this AUP or attempts to do so, including terminating or suspending a user’s account or access to or use of the Products, or reporting any content or conduct to law enforcement authorities. You are solely responsible for creating and maintaining your own backup copies of your User Materials. Amplify is not responsible for any loss, theft, or damage of any kind to any User Materials. 

9. Feedback

If you provide us with any ideas, proposals, or suggestions related to the Products (“Feedback”), you hereby acknowledge and agree that your provision of any Feedback is gratuitous, unsolicited, and without restriction, and does not place Amplify under any fiduciary or other obligation. You hereby grant to Amplify a worldwide, royalty-free, fully paid-up, exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, and fully sublicensable (through multiple tiers) license to reproduce, distribute, perform and/or display (publicly or otherwise), adapt, modify, and otherwise use such Feedback, in any format or media now known or hereafter developed, and you hereby represent and warrant that you have all necessary rights to grant the foregoing license.

10. Third party links and services

The Products may make available, or third parties may provide, links to websites, software, applications, resources, advertisements, content, or other products or services created, hosted, or made available by third parties (“Third Party Services”). When you access or use a Third-Party Service, you are interacting with the applicable third party, not with Amplify, and you do so at your own risk. Inclusion of any Third-Party Service or a link thereto within the Products does not imply approval or endorsement of such Third-Party Service. Amplify does not control any content that is not Amplify content, and as such, you may be exposed to offensive, indecent, inaccurate, or otherwise objectionable content in the course of accessing or using such Third-Party Services linked from the Products. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other users of the Products, providers of Third-Party Services, and any other third parties with whom you interact on, through, or in connection with the Products. AMPLIFY IS NEITHER RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY THIRD-PARTY SERVICES, INCLUDING THE ACCURACY, INTEGRITY, COMPLETENESS, QUALITY, LEGALITY, USEFULNESS, OR SAFETY OF, OR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS RELATING TO, SUCH THIRD-PARTY SERVICES. ANY ACCESS TO OR USE OF SUCH THIRD-PARTY SERVICES MAY BE SUBJECT TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND INFORMATION COLLECTION, USAGE, AND DISCLOSURE PRACTICES OF THIRD PARTIES. THIS AUP DOES NOT CREATE ANY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ANY PROVIDER OF THIRD-PARTY SERVICES, AND NOTHING IN THIS AUP WILL BE DEEMED TO BE A REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY BY AMPLIFY WITH RESPECT TO ANY THIRD-PARTY SERVICE.

11. Digital Millennium Copyright Act

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (“DMCA”) provides recourse for copyright owners who believe that material appearing on the Internet infringes their rights under U.S. copyright law. If you believe that any material residing on or linked to from the Products infringes your copyright, please send (or have your agent send) to Amplify’s Copyright Agent, by email, fax, or regular mail, a written notification of claimed infringement with all of the following information: (a) identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works; (b) identification of the claimed infringing material and information reasonably sufficient to permit us to locate the material on the Products (such as the URL(s) of the claimed infringing material); (c) information reasonably sufficient to permit us to contact you, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an e-mail address; (d) a statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, the copyright owner’s agent or the law; (e) a statement by you that the above information in your notification is accurate, and a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that you are the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed, or that you are authorized to act on such owner’s behalf; and (f) your physical or electronic signature. Amplify’s Copyright Agent for notification of claimed infringement can be reached as follows: Amplify Education, Inc., 55 Washington Street #800, Brooklyn NY 11201; Attn: Copyright Agent. Amplify’s Copyright Agent for notification of claimed infringement can also be reached electronically at legal@amplify.com. Amplify reserves the right to terminate infringers’ and suspected infringers’ accounts or their access to or use of the Products.

12. Changes to the products

Amplify may, without prior notice, change any Product or stop providing any features of any Product. We may permanently or temporarily terminate or suspend your access to any Product features without notice for any reason, including if in our sole determination you violate any provision of this AUP. Upon termination, you continue to be bound by this AUP.

13. Warranty disclaimer

PRODUCTS ARE PROVIDED “AS IS” AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND BY AMPLIFY. AMPLIFY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTY AS TO TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR USE. YOU ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR SELECTING THE PRODUCTS TO ACHIEVE YOUR INTENDED RESULTS AND FOR THE ACCESS AND USE OF THE PRODUCTS, INCLUDING THE RESULTS OBTAINED FROM THE PRODUCTS. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, AMPLIFY MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT THE PRODUCTS WILL BE ERROR-FREE OR FREE FROM INTERRUPTIONS OR OTHER FAILURES OR WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS. AMPLIFY IS NEITHER RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY THIRD-PARTY CONTENT OR SOFTWARE INCLUDED IN PRODUCTS, INCLUDING THE ACCURACY, INTEGRITY, COMPLETENESS, QUALITY, LEGALITY, USEFULNESS, OR SAFETY OF, OR IP RIGHTS RELATING TO, SUCH THIRD-PARTY CONTENT AND SOFTWARE. ANY ACCESS TO OR USE OF SUCH THIRD-PARTY CONTENT AND SOFTWARE MAY BE SUBJECT TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND INFORMATION COLLECTION, USAGE, AND DISCLOSURE PRACTICES OF THIRD PARTIES.

14. Limitation of liability

IN NO EVENT WILL AMPLIFY BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE, RELIANCE, OR COVER DAMAGES, DAMAGES FOR LOST PROFITS, LOST DATA, LOST BUSINESS, OR ANY OTHER INDIRECT DAMAGES, EVEN IF AMPLIFY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, AMPLIFY’S ENTIRE LIABILITY TO YOU ARISING OUT OF PERFORMANCE OR NONPERFORMANCE BY AMPLIFY OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS AUP, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CLAIM FOR SUCH DAMAGES IS BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE, WILL NOT EXCEED $100 IN AGGREGATE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL AMPLIFY BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES OF ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE PRODUCTS THAT VIOLATES THIS AUP OR ANY APPLICABLE LAW OR REGULATION.

15. Termination

Amplify may terminate or suspend your access to the Products at any time for any reason, including if Amplify believes that you have violated the AUP or have engaged in conduct that violates applicable law or is otherwise harmful to the interests of Amplify, any other Amplify user, or any third party. Upon termination, you will: cease using the Products and return, purge, or destroy all copies of any Products and, if so requested, certify to Amplify in writing that such surrender or destruction has occurred. Sections 3–13, 16, and 17 will survive the termination of this Agreement.

16. Governing Law

This Agreement will be governed by and construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of the U.S., state of New York, without giving effect to the choice of law rules thereof.

17. Additional terms for iOS apps

By downloading any Products through Apple, Inc.’s App Store (“iOS Products”), you agree that the following additional terms apply to your use of our iOS Products:

  1. This AUP is not a legal agreement with Apple, Inc. (“Apple”). As between Amplify and Apple, Amplify (not Apple) is responsible for the iOS Products and the contents thereof.
  2. The license to use the iOS Products under Section 3 above is limited to use (i) on iOS devices that you or your School owns or controls, separate from and in addition to any specific technical requirements for any iOS Product, and (ii) as permitted by the Usage Rules set forth in Apple Media Services Terms and Conditions.
  3. You must comply with applicable third-party terms of agreement when using the Products.
  4. Without limiting Section 13 above and solely as between Amplify and Apple, you acknowledge that: (i) Apple has no obligation whatsoever to furnish any maintenance and support services with respect to the iOS Products; (ii) Amplify (not Apple) is responsible for addressing any claims of yours or of any third party relating to the iOS Products or your possession and/or use of the iOS products, including but not limited to (1) product liability claims, (2) any claim that the iOS Products fail to conform to any applicable legal or regulatory requirement, and (3) claims arising under consumer protection, privacy, or similar legislation; (iii) in the event of any failure of the iOS Products to conform to any applicable warranty, you may notify Apple, and Apple will refund the purchase price for the iOS Products to you; to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Apple will have no other warranty obligation whatsoever with respect to the iOS Products, and any other claims, losses, liabilities, damages, costs, or expenses attributable to any failure to conform to any warranty will be Amplify’s sole responsibility; and (iv) in the event of any third-party claim that the iOS Products or your possession and use of the iOS Products infringes that third party’s intellectual property rights, Amplify (not Apple) will be responsible for any investigation, defense, settlement, and discharge of any such intellectual property infringement claim.
  5. You represent and warrant that: (i) you are not located in a country that is subject to a U.S. Government embargo, or that has been designated by the U.S. Government as a “terrorist supporting” country; and (ii) you are not listed on any U.S. Government list of prohibited or restricted parties.
  6. Apple and Apple’s subsidiaries are third-party beneficiaries of these Terms, and upon your acceptance of these Terms, Apple will have the right (and will be deemed to have accepted the right) to enforce these Terms against you as a third-party beneficiary thereof.
  7.  Any questions, complaints, or claims with respect to the Products should be directed to: 

Email: privacy@amplify.comMail: Amplify Education, Inc., 55 Washington St. #800, Brooklyn, NY, 11201

18. Additional terms for Mathigon and Amplify Classroom accounts.

a. Mathigon updates: Amplify no longer offers accounts for Child Users, but we will continue to allow Child Users to access their active legacy Mathigon accounts where verifiable parental consent was obtained. We will continue to protect personal information in accordance with the Privacy Policy and applicable law.

b. Mathigon and Amplify Classroom:

i. School Use:

  1. Educators: If you are an Educator, you can create a Mathigon or an Amplify Classroom account using any existing email or through an existing third-party account (e.g. Google, Microsoft). Go to https://mathigon.org/signup#teacher  to sign up for Mathigon. Go to classroom.amplify.com to sign up for Amplify Classroom.
  2. Students can also sign up using a unique class code provided by an Educator. Educators are responsible for gaining appropriate authorization or permission from their School to use the Products with students, including Child Users, before providing their unique class code or linking the Products to a third-party service like Google Classroom. For such use in the school context, we do not request additional consent from parents in accordance with the “school official” exception under FERPA and relevant COPPA guidance. For more information, visit our Privacy Policy, which describes how we collect, use, and disclose personal information and data through the provision of our Products in schools. 

ii. Outside of School Use: If you are an individual user using the Products at home or otherwise outside of the school context, you are prohibited from collecting or providing any personal information from students or minors. You are permitted to access the platform for instructional purposes, but you may not enroll or roster minors, create accounts for minors, or input any personal information of minors into the Product.

19. Updates to this policy

We may change this Acceptable Use Policy in the future. For example, we may update it to address changes in our product offerings, or to address changes in the law or best practices. If we make changes that materially impact your legal rights or use of our products, we will provide prominent notification to you (e.g. via the Site or by email).  Otherwise, we will post any updates to the policy with an updated “Last Revised Date” and all changes will become effective immediately. Please check the Last Revised Date to confirm if the policy has been revised.

Last Modified: February 2, 2026

Celebrating Keppel Union: A Science of Reading Star Award winner

Celebrating Keppel Union: A Science of Reading Star Award winner

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Next-generation speech recognition technology

Text Reading Online was created in partnership by Amplify and SoapBox Labs, a Dublin-based developer of accuracy and privacy driven voice technology for children. Text Reading Online represents the first literacy assessment of its kind to enable remote evaluation of reading accuracy, fluency, and comprehension. 

Logo of soapbox labs featuring an orange microphone alongside the company name in black and orange text.

Assess remotely with Text Reading Online

How it works

To perform the Text Reading Online assessment, students read two texts aloud. The first text is at the student’s grade level and the read-aloud is evaluated for reading accuracy and fluency through SoapBox Lab’s speech recognition technology.

Students then answer a set of text-dependent comprehension questions to evaluate their degree of understanding. This is repeated with the second text, which is adapted based on the student’s performance on the initial text, including their accuracy, fluency, and comprehension.

A digital reading comprehension activity shows a passage about a Texas heatwave and multiple-choice questions for students to answer, with an owl cartoon giving instructions.

Data from the oral reading fluency assessment, including reading rate and specific error types, provides educators with near-real-time feedback, which they can use to identify areas of focus and cater lessons to each student’s needs.

Learn about mCLASS

Text Reading Online is a measure available within mCLASS, a K–6 universal assessment, instruction, and intervention suite. To learn how to bring mCLASS to your school or district, visit this page to fill out a contact form. 

Grade K

Unit 1: Count Sequence and Numbers to 5

Module 1: Represent Numbers to 5 with Objects

Lesson 1: Represent 1 and 2Connecting Cubes
Lesson 2: Represent 3 and 4Skye’s Style
Matching Groups
Designing Shoes With Skye

Unit 2: Count Sequence and Numbers to 10

Module 7: Represent Numbers 6 to 10 with Objects

Module OpenerInvestigate: Cafeteria Math
Fingers as Math Tools
Lesson 2: Represent 8 and 9Moving and Grooving

Module 10: Compare Numbers to 10

Lesson 4: Compare Groups Within 10 by CountingMore, Fewer, or the Same
Fingers and Counters
Lesson 5: Compare Groups Within 10 by MatchingComparing Words
Forest Friends

Module 11: Add To and Take From Within 10

Module OpenerInvestigate
How Many Objects?

Module 12: Put Together and Take Apart Within 10

Lesson 3: Solve Put Together Problems Within 10How Many Objects in Pictures?
How Will You Count?
What Does It Mean to Add?
Lesson 4: Solve Take Apart Problems Within 10What Does It Mean to Subtract?
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems Within 10The Bus Depot

Module 13: Ways to Make Numbers to 10

Lesson 4: Ways to Make 10Harry’s Hamster Wheel
Harry Explores Space
Lesson 5: Make 10 From a Given NumberShowing What We Know About 10
Lesson 1: Ways to Make 6 and 7Harry Explores the Ocean

Unit 3: Geometry

Module 14: Analyze and Compare Three-Dimensional Shapes

Module OpenerWhat’s That Shape?
Lesson 5: Build ShapesBuilding Solid Shapes

Module 15: Describe Position of Objects

Module OpenerPutting Solid Shapes Together

Module 16: Analyze and Compare Two-Dimensional Shapes

Lesson 7: Compare Two-Dimensional and Three-Dimensional ShapesSo Much Sorting
What’s That Shape Called?
Another Shape

Unit 4: Number and Operations in Base Ten

Module 17: Place Value Foundations-Represent Numbers to 20

Lesson 3: Compose Ten Ones and Some More Ones to 19Investigate: Packing Snacks
Lesson 4: Represent Numbers to 20Getting Ready for the Game
How Many on the Field?
Pass, Shoot, Score

Module 18: Place Value Foundations-Represent Number to 20 with a Written Numeral

Lesson 1: Count and Write 11 to 14Jersey Jam!
Lesson 3: Count and Write 16-19People at the Park

Grade 1

Unit 1: Ways to Add and Subtract

Module 2: Subtraction Strategies

Lesson 2.1: Represent SubtractionPacking a Picnic
Lesson 2.2: Count BackWhat’s the Difference?
Lesson 2.3: Count on to SubtractLeaping Lily Pads!

Module 3: Properties of Operations

Lesson 3.6: Determin Equatl and Not EqualReplanting Huli

Module 4: Apply Addition and Subtraction Relationships

Lesson 4.2: Represent Related FactsSame Number, Different Ways
Lesson 4.3: Identify Related FactsKitten Coaster
Lesson 4.6: Solve for Unknow AddendTutu’s Garden in Maui

Module 5: Understand Add to and Take From Problems

Lesson 5.4: Solve Add To and Take From ProblemsA Community Working Together
Helping Others
Making 10

Module 6: Understand Put Together and Take Apart Problems

Lesson 6.3: Represent Addend and Unknown Problems with Objects and DrawingInvestigate: Let’s Grow!

Module 8: Data

Lesson: 8.2 Represent Data with Picture GraphsShapes Ying Saw

Unit 3: Numbers to 120

Module 10: Count and Represent Numbers

Lesson 10.4: Decompose Numbers in Different WaysInvestigate: Game Points
Lesson 10.5: Represent, Read, and Write Numbers from 100 to 110From Head to Claw
From Wing Tip to Wing Tip
Measuring More Wingspans
Lesson 10.5: Represent, Read, and Write Numbers from 110 to 120From Head to Claw
From Wing Tip to Wing Tip
Measuring More Wingspans

Unit 4: Addition and Subtractoin in Base Ten

Module 12: Understand Addition and Subtraction with Tens and Ones

Lesson 12.1: Representing Adding TensMeeting Yara
It’s a Match
From Park to Table
Lesson 12.3: Add and Subtract TensHow Many Cubes?
Boris’s Thimbles
How Many Tens?

Module 13: Two-Digita Addition and Subtraction

Lesson 13.1: Use Hundred Charts to Show Two-Digit Addtion and Subtraction.Investigate: Squashes at the Playground
Lesson 13.2: Understand and Explain Place Value AdditionTown Helpers
Making Squash Butter

Unit 6: Measurment

Module 16: Fraction Foundations

Lesson 16.1: TAke Apart Two-Dimensional ShapesFair and Square
Lesson 16.2: Identify Equal or Unequal PartsOne of the Parts, All of the Parts
Lesson 16.4: Partition Shapes into FourthsA Bigger Part

Grade 2

Unit 1: Numbers and Data

Module 1: Fluency for Addition and Subtraction Within 20

Lesson 1.5: Use the Make a Ten Strategy to AddExploring Within 10
Ways to Make 10

Module 1: Fluency for Addition and Subtraction Within 21

Lesson 1.6: Use a Tens Fact to SubtractExploring Within 10
Ways to Make 10

Module 2: Equal Groups

Lesson 2.1: Identify Even and Odd NumbersCan You Share?
Is It Even or Odd?
Lesson 2.2: Write Equations to Represent Even NumbersEverybody, Find A Partner!

Module 3: Data

Lesson 3.5: Draw bar graphs to Represent DataAwesome Aquariums

Unit 2: Place Value

Module 4: Understand Place Value

Lesson 4.1: Group Tens as HundredsWhat Makes a Hundred?
Lesson 4.2: Understand Three-Digit NumbersWhat’s the Value?
Lesson 4.4: Represent Numbers with Hundreds, Tens, and OnesMail Call!
What’s Your Name?

Module 5: Read, Write, and Show Numbers to 1000

Lesson 5.3: Different Ways to Write NumbersA New Representation
Lesson 5.4: Different Ways to Show NumbersAll the Ways!

Module 6: Use Place Value

Lesson 6.1: Count Within 1000Investigate
Turtle Hurdle
Lesson 6.5: Use Symbols to Compare NumbersTime to Line Up!

Unit 3: Money and Time

Module 7: Coins

Lesson 7.1: Relate Place Value to CoinsInvestigate
Lesson 7.2 Identify and Find Value of CoinsDiscovering Coins (Part 1)
Lesson 7.3: Compute the Value of Coin CombinationsHow Much Money?
Lesson 7.4: Show Amounts in Different WaysDiscovering Coins (Part 2)
The Toy Stand

Module 8: Dollar Amounts

Lesson 8.3: Solve Problems Involving MoneyThe Craft Stand at the Block Party

Unit 5: Three-Digita Addition and Subtraction

Module 16: Three-Digit Addition

Lesson 16.1: Use Drawing to Represent Three-Digit AdditionThere’s Something About Berries
Lesson 16.2: Decomposte Three-Digit AddendsBaking With Skunk

Unit 6: Measurement

Module 18: Lengths in Inches, Feet, and Yards

Lesson 18.4: Make Line Ploits to Show Measurement DataMessy Measurements
Bracelets and Wristbands

Module 20: Relate Addition and Subtraction to Length

Lesson 20.1: Relate Inches to a Number LineInvestigate
Time to Line Up!
What’s That Number?
Lesson 20.2: Add and Subtract Lengths in InchesLengths of Jungle Animals
Lesson 20.3: Relate Centimeters to a Number LineInvestigate
Time to Line Up!
In Full Bloom

Unit 7: Geometry and Fractions

Module 21: Two- and Three- Dimensional Shapes

Lesson 21.2 Identify and Draw Three-Dimensional ShapesMore to Measure
Lesson 21.2: Identify and Draw Two-Dimensional ShapesFrame It!
Measure It, Draw It

Grade 3

Unit 1: Understand Multiplication and Area

Module 1: Understand Multiplication

Lesson 1.1: Count Equal GroupsEqual Groups
Lesson 1.3: Represent Multiplication with ArraysArrays of Flavor
Lesson 1.4: Understand the Commutative Property of MultiplicationArrays of Flavor

Module 2: Relate Multiplication and Area

Lesson 2.1 Understand Area by Counting Unit SquareInvestigate: Comparing Rugs
Which Covers More Space?
Lesson 2.2: Measuring Area by Counting Unit SquaresTiling Figures
Area Hunt
Lesson 2.3: Relate Area to Addition and MultiplicationRectangles and Arrays

Unit 2: Multiplication and Division

Module 7: Relate Multiplication and Division

Lesson 7.7: Build Fluency with Multiplication and DivisionRelating Quotients to Familiar Products

Module 8: Apply Multiplication and Division

Lesson 8.3: Use Multiplication and Division to Solve Problem SituationsIt’s Chili in Here!
Lesson 8.4: Solve Two-Step ProblemsDivision and Multiplication Equations

Unit 3: Addition and Subtraction Strategies

Module 9: Addition and Subtraction Strategies

Lesson 9.3: Use Properties to AddHow Would You Solve It?
Lesson 9.4: Use Mental Math to Assess ReasonablenessAdding Strategically

Module 10: Addition and Subtraction Within 1000

Lesson 10.1: Use Expanded Form to AddWhat Is an Algorithm?
Lesson 10.2: Use Place Value to AddAdding Your Way
Using Fewer Digits
Lesson 10.5: Choose a Strategy to Add or SubtractDetermining Sums of 2 or More Addends

Unit 4: Fractions

Module 13: Understand Fractions as Numbers

Lesson 13.4: Represent and Name Fractions on a Number LineFractions on the Number Line
Lesson 13.5: Express Whole Numbers as FractionsCat Crossing
Lesson 13.6: Represent and Name Fractions Greater Than 1Location, Location, Location

Unit 5: Measurement and Data

Module 18: Represent and Interpret Data

Lesson 18.4: Make a Bar GraphPuppy Pile
2, 5, or 10?
Egg-cellent Pick
Lesson 18.5: Use Line Plots to Display Measurement DataHow Long Is It?
More Precise Measurements
Same Lengths, Different Names
Lesson 18.6: Make Line Plots to Display Measurement DataThe Plot Chickens
Let’s Make a Line Plot

Unit 6: Geometry

Module 19: Define Two-Dimensional Shapes

Lesson 19.1: Describe ShapesPiho’s Shapes
Lesson 19.4: Define QuadrilateralsRectangles, Squares, and Rhombuses

Module 20: Categorize Two-Dimensional Shapes

Lesson 20.1: Draw QuadrilateralsMore Quadrilaterals

Grade 4

Unit 1: Place Value and Whole Number Operations

Module 3: Interpret and Solve Problem Situations

Lesson 3.1: Explore Multiplicative ComparisonsSticker Mania
Lesson 3.4: Use Comparison to Solve Problem SituationsRepresenting “Times as Many”
Going Swimming

Unit 2: Multiplication and Division Problems

Module 4: Mental Math and Estimation Strategies

Lesson 4.3: Estimate Products by 1-Digit NumbersA Reasonable Answer

Module 5: Multiply by 1-Digit Numbers

Lesson 5.1: Represent MultiplicationInvestigate: Packing Lei
Lesson 5.2: Use Area Models and the Distributive Property to MultiplyCounting Flowers for Lei
Lesson 5.4: Multiplying Using Partial ProductsThree of a Kind
Lesson 5.6: Multiplying 3-Digit and 4-Digit NumbersA Lei Making Workshop

Unit 3: Extend and Apply Multiplication

Module 8: Extend and Apply Multiplication

Lesson 8.1: Multiply with TensGrowing Flowers for the Lei
Lesson 8.3: Relate Area Model and Partial ProductsDouble Decomposition
Lesson 8.4: Multiplying Using Partial ProductsRevisiting Strategies
Lesson 8.7: Solve Multi-step Problems and Assess ReasonablenessHow Many Supplies?

Unit 4: Fractions and Decimals

Module 10: Algebraic Thinking and Number Theory

Lesson 10.1: Investigate FactorsHamster Homes
Lesson 10.2: Identify FactorsFactor or Multiple?
Lesson 10.4: Identify Prime and Composite NumbersA Number Game
Lesson 10.5 Generate and Analyze Number PatternsHow Does It Grow?

Module 11: Fraction Equivalence and Comparison

Lesson 11.1: Compare Fractions Using Viaula ModelsInvestigate: Building Your Own Number Line
Lesson 11.2: Compare Fractions Using BenchmarksFraction Strips
Lesson 11.6: Compare Fractions Using Common DenominatorsChop It
Lesson 11.7: Use Comparison to Order FractionsAll Kinds of Fractions

Module 12: Relate Fractions and Decimals

Lesson 12.1: Represent Tenths as Fractions and DecimalsA New Way to Write Tenths
Lesson 12.2 Represent Hundredths as Fractions and DecimalsA New Way to Write Hundredths
Lesson 12.3: Identify Equivalent Fractions and DecimalsAre They Equivalent?
Lesson 12.4: Compare DecimalsHow Can You Compare?
Robot Factory
What’s the Order

Module 13: Use Fractions to Understand Angles

Lesson 13.2: Explore AnglesAngle Adventures
Lesson 13.3: Relate Angles to Fraction Part of a CircleThe Spin on Angles
Lesson 13.6: Join and Separate AnglesAngles in Motion

Module 14: Understand Addition and Subtraction of Fractions with Like Denominators

Lesson 14.2: Joining Parts of the Same WholePizza Problems

Module 15: Add and Subtract Fractions and Mixed Numbers with Like Denominators

Lesson 15.1: Add and Subtract Fractions to Solve ProblemsMath Pizzeria

Unit 6: Two-Dimensional Figures and Symmetry

Module 18: Symmetry and Patterns

Lesson 18.3: Generate and Identify Shape PattersHow Does It Grow?

Grade 5

Unit 1: Whole Numbers, Expressions, and Volume

Module 1: Whole Number Place Value and Multiplication

Lesson 1.3: Use a Pattern to Multiply by Multiplies of 10, 100, and 1000Partial Products Everywhere
Monarch Butterflies
All About That Base
Lesson 1.5: Multiply Multi-Digit NumbersHow Do They Compare?

Module 2: Understand Division of Whole Numbers

Lesson 2.4: Use Partial QuotientsEmptying the Water Tank

Module 5: Volume

Lesson 5.2: Understand VolumeWhich is Largest
Lesson 5.3: Estimate VolumePacking the Barge
Lesson 5.6: Find Volume of Composed FiguresPutting it Together
Figures Made of Prisms

Unit 3: Multiplying Fractions and Mixed Numbers

Module 8: Understand Multiplication of Fractions

Lesson 8.1: Explore Groups of Equal Shares to Show MultiplicationInvestigate: Sharing Sandwiches
Investigate: Folding Paper
Lesson 8.2: Represent Multiplication of Whole Numbers by FractionsSharing More Sandwiches
Lesson 8.3: Represent Multiplication with Unit FractionOne Part of One Part
Lesson 8.4: Represent Multiplication of FractionsDance Breaks
Parts of Parts
Making Food
Lesson 8.5: Use Representations of Area to Develop ProceduresOne Part of One Part
Installing Turf
Rows and Columns
Lesson 8.6: Interpret Fraction Multiplication as ScalingChores at Animal Haven
The Re-size-inator
Lesson 8.7: Multiplying FractionsMessy Multiplication

Module 9: Understand and Apply Multiplication of Mixed Numbers

Lesson 9.3: Practice Multiplication with Fractions and Mixed NumbersMessy Multiplication
Applying Fraction Multiplication

Unit 4: Divide Fractions and Convert Customary Units

Module 10: Understand Division with Whole Numbers and Unit Fractions

Lesson 10.1: Interpret a Fraction as DivisionDivision Story Problems
Making Generalizations

Unit 5: Add and Subtract Decimals

Module 13: Decimal Place Value

Lesson 13.1: Understand ThousandthsWhat Is One Thousandth?
Lesson 13.2: Read and Write Decimals to ThousandthsSay What?
Lesson 13.3: Round DecimalsWhich Way Down the Mountain?
Rounding Races
Lesson 13.4: Compare and Order DecimalsInvestigate: Numbers Between Numbers
The Claw
Selling Collectibles

Unit 6: Multiply Decimals

Module 15: Multiply Decimals and Whole Numbers

Lesson 15.1: Understand Decimal Multiplication PatternsPlace Value Patterns
Powers of 10 Parade

Unit 7: Divide Decimals and Convert Customary Units

Module 17: Understand Decimal Division Patterns

Lesson 17.1: Understand Decimal Division PatternsPowers of 10 Parade

Unit 8: Graphs, Patterns, and Geometry

Module 19: Graphs and Patterns

Lesson 19.1: Describe a Coordinate SystemCreating a Coordinate System
Lesson 19.2: Understand Ordered PairsBullseye!
Lesson19.4: Generate and Identify Numerical PattermsCoordinating Satellite Repairs

Grade 6

Unit 1: Number Systems and Operations

Module 1: Integer Concepts

Lesson 1: Identify and Interpret IntegersCan You Dig It?
Lesson 2: Compare and Order Integers on a Number LineOrder in the Class

Module 3: Fraction Division

Lesson 1: Understand Fraction DivisionFlour Planner
Fill the Gap

Module 4: Fluency with Multi-Digit Decimal Operations

Lesson 1: Add and Subtract Multi-Digit DecimalsDishing Out Decimals
Decimal Diagrams and Algorithms
Lesson 4: Divide Multi-Digit DecimalsMovie Time

Unit 2: Ratio and Rate Reasoning

Module 5: Ratio and Rates

Lesson 1: Understand the Concept and Language of RatiosPizza Maker
Lesson 2: Represent Ratios and Rates with Tables and GraphsFruit Lab
Disaster Preparation
Lesson 3: Compare Ratios and RatesModel Trains
Lesson 4: Find and Apply Unit RatesWorld Records
Lesson 5: Solve Ratio and Rate Problems Using Proportional ReasoningWelcome to the Robot Factory
More Soft Serve

Module 6: Apply Ratios and Rates to Measurement

Lesson 2: Use Rate Reasoning to Convert withing Measurement SystemsSoft Serve
Many Measurements

Module 7: Understand, Express, and Compare Percent Ratios

Lesson 1: Understand, Express, and Compare Percent RatiosLucky Duckies

Unit 3: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Module 8: Numerical and Algebraic Expressions

Lesson 3: Write Algebraic Expressions to Model SituationsProducts and Sums

Module 9: Solve Problems Using Equations and Inequalities

Lesson 1: Write Equations to Represent SituationsWeight for It
Five Equations
Lesson 2: USe Additions and Subtraction Equations to Solve ProblemsHanging Around
Hanging It Up
Lesson 3: Use Multiplication and Division Equations to Solve ProblemsHanging Around
Hanging It Up
Lesson 4: Use One-Step Equations to Solve a Variety of ProblemsSwap and Solve
Lesson 5: Write and Graph InequalitiesTunnel Travels

Module 10: Real-World Relationships Between Variables

Lesson 1: Represent Equations in Tables and GraphsSubway Fares
Lesson 2: Write Equations from Verbal DescriptionsSubway Fares

Unit 4: Relationships in Geometry

Module 11: Polygons on the Coordinate Plane

Lesson 4: Find the Perimeter and Area on the Coordinate PlaneShapes on a Plane

Module 12: Area of Triangles and Special Quadrilaterals

Lesson 1: Develop and Use the Formula for Area of ParallelogramsExploring Parallelograms, Part 1
Exploring Parallelograms, Part 2
Off the Grid, Part 1
Lesson 2: Develop and Use the Formula for Area of TrianglesExploring Triangles
Triangles and Parallelograms
Off the Grid, Part 2
Lesson 3: Develop and Use the Formula for Area of TrapezoidsPile of Polygons
Lesson 4: Find Area of Composite FiguresPuzzling Areas
Letters

Module 13: Surface Area and Volume

Lesson 1: Explore Nets and Surface AreaRenata’s Stickers

Unit 5: Data Collection and Analysis

Module 14: Data Collection and Displays

Lesson 2: Display Data in Dot PlotsMinimum Wage
Lesson 3: Make Histograms and Frequency TablesThe Plot Thickens

Module 15: Measure of Center

Lesson 2: Find Measures of CenterToy Cars
Lesson 3: Choose a Measure of CenterHoops

Grade 7

Unit 1: Proportional Relationships

Module 1: Identify and Represent Proportional Relationships

Lesson 1: Explore RelationshipsPaint
Lesson 2: Recognize Proportional Relationships in TablesTwo and Two
Lesson 3: Compute Unit Rates Involving FractionsDinoPops
Lesson 4: Recognize Proportional Relationships in GraphsScale Factor Challenges
Lesson 5: Use Proportional Relationships to Solve Rate ProblemsScaling Robots
Lesson 6: Practice Proportional Reasoning with Scale DrawingsScaling Machines
Make it Scale
Tiles
Will It Fit

Module 2: Proportional Reasoning with Percents

Lesson 1: Percent ChangeMosaics
Percent Machines
Lesson 2: Markups and DiscountsMore and Less
All the Equations
Lesson 3: Taxes and Gratuities100%
Lesson 5: Simple InterestBack in My Day

Unit 2: Rational Number Operations

Module 3: Understand Addition and Subtraction of Rational Numbers

Lesson 1: Add or Subtract a Positive Integer on a Number lineFloats and Anchors
Lesson 3: Use a Number Line to Add and Subtract Rational NumbersDraw Your Own

Module 4: Add and Subtract Rational Numbers

Lesson 1: Compute Sums of IntegersMore Floats and Anchors
Lesson 2: Compute Differences of IntegersMore Floats and Anchors
Lesson 4: Apply Properties to Multi-step Addition and Subtraction ProblemsInteger Puzzles

Unit 3: Model with Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Module 7: Solve Problems Using Expressions and Equations

Lesson 1: Write Linear Expressions in Different Forms for Different SituationsCollect the Squares
Lesson 3: Write Two-Step Equations for SituationsKeeping it True
Lesson 5: Apply Two-Step Equations fo Find Angle MeasuresFriendly Angles
Missing Measures

Module 8: Solve Problems Using Inequalities

Lesson 1: Understand and Apply Properties to Solve One-Step InequalitiesI Saw the Signs
Lesson 2: Write Two-Step Inequalities for SituationsUnbalanced Hangers
Shira the Sheep
Lesson 3: Apply Two-Step Inequalities to Solve ProblemsBudgeting
Write Them and Solve Them

Unit 4: Geometry

Module 9: Draw and Analyze Two-Dimensional Figures

Lesson 2: Draw Circles and Other FiguresCan You Build It

Module 10: Analyze Figures to Find Circumference and Area

Lesson 1: Derive and Apply Formulas for CircumferenceMeasuring Around
Lesson 2: Derive and Apply a Formula for the Area of a CircleWhy Pi?
Lesson 4: Areas of Composite FiguresArea Challenges

Unit 5: Sampling and Data Analysis

Module 13: Use Statistics and Graphs to Compare Data

Lesson 3: Compare Means Using MAD and Repeated SamplingCrab Island

Module 14: Understand and Apply Experimental Probability

Lesson 1: Understand Probability of an EventHow Likely
Lesson 2: Find Experimental Probability of Simple EventsProb-bear-bilities

Module 15: Find Theoretical Probability of Simple Events

Lesson 1: Find Theoretical Probability of Simple EventsIs It Fair?

Grade 8

Unit 1: Transformational Geometry

Module 1: Transformations and Congruence

Lesson 1: Investigate TransformationsTransformers
Spinning, Flipping, Sliding
Lesson 2: Explore TranslationsTransformation Golf
Moving Day
Getting Coordinated, Part 1
Getting Coordinated, Part 2
Lesson 3: Explore ReflectionsTransformation Golf
Moving Day
Getting Coordinated, Part 1
Getting Coordinated, Part 2
Lesson 4: Explore RotationsTransformation Golf
Moving Day
Getting Coordinated, Part 1
Getting Coordinated, Part 2
Lesson 5: Understand and Recognize Congruent FiguresTessellate

Module 2: Transformations and Similarity

Lesson 1: Investigate Reductions and EnlargementsSketchy Dilations
Lesson 2: Explore DilationsDilation Mini Golf
Lesson 3: Understand and Recognize Similar FiguresSocial Scavenger Hunt

Unit 2: Linear Equations and Applications

Module 3: Solve Linear Equations

Lesson 1: Solve Multi-Step Linear EquationsEquation Roundtable
Lesson 3: Apply Linear Equations

Module 4: Angle Relationships

Lesson 1: Develop Angle Relationships for TrianglesPuzzling It Out
Lesson 3: Explore Prarallel Lines Cut by a TransversalPuzzling It Out

Unit 3: Relationships and Functions

Module 5: Proportional Relationships

Lesson 2: Derive y = mxTurtle Time Trials
Lesson 3: Interpret and Graph Proportional RelationshipsTurtle Time Trials
Lesson 4: Compare Proportional RelationshipsTurtle Time Trials

Module 6: Understand and Analyze Functions

Lesson 1: Understand and Graph FunctionsGuess My Rule
Lesson 2: Derive and Interpret y = mx + bFlags
Translations
Lesson 3: Interpret Rat of Change and Initial ValueStacking Cups (Optional)
Lesson 4: Construct FunctionsWater Cooler
Lesson 5: Compare FunctionsUps and Downs
Lesson 6: Describe and Sketch Nonlinear FunctionsTurtle Crossing
The Tortoise and the Hare

Module 7: Systems of Linear Equations

Lesson 1: Represent Systems by GraphingMake Them Balance
Lesson 2: Solve Systems by GraphingLine Zapper

Unit 4: Statistics and Probability

Module 8: Scatter Plots

Lesson 1: Construct Scatter Plots and Examine AssociationRobots
Dapper Cats
Lesson 2: Draw and Analyze Trend LinesInterpreting Scatter Plots
Find the Fit (called Fit Fights in Desmos Math)
Lesson 3: Interpret Linear Data in ContextInterpreting Slopes
Scatter Plot City
Animal Brains

Module 9: Two-Way Tables

Lesson 1: Construct and Interpret Two-Way Frequency TablesFinding Associations
Lesson 3: Interpret Two-Way Relative Freqency TablesFinding Associations

Unit 5: Real Numbers and the Pythagorean Theorem

Module 10: Real Numbers

Lesson 2: Investigate RootsRoot Down

Module 11: The Pythagorean Theorem

Lesson 1: Prove the Pythagorean TheoremTriangle Tracing Turtle
Lesson 3: Apply the Pythagorean TheoremTaco Truck

Unit 6: Exponents, Scientific Notation, and Volume

Module 12: Exponents and Scientific Notation

Lesson 1: Know and Apply Properties of ExponentsCircles
Power Pairs
Lesson 2: Understand Scientific NotationSpecific and Scientific (formerly Solar System)
Lesson 3: Compute with Scientific NotationBalance the Scale

Module 13: Volume

Lesson 1: Find Volume of CylindersCylinders
Lesson 2: Find Volumes of ConesCones

Algebra 1

Intro/Launch

LaunchVisual Patterns

Unit 1: Real Numbers and Connections to Algebra

Module 2: Linear Equations and Inequalities in One Variable

Lesson 2.2: Write and Solve EquationsWorking Backwards
Solving Strategies
Same Position
Lesson 2.3: Rewrite Formulas and Solve Literal EquationsVarious Variables
Lesson 2.4: Write and Solve InequalitiesPizza Delivery

Unit 2: Linear Functions and Equations

Module 3: Linear Equations in Two Variables

Lesson 3.1: Linear Equations in Standard FormShelley the Snail
Five Representations
Lesson 3.2: Slopes of Lines and Rates of ChangePlane, Train, and Automobile

Module 4: Linear Functions and Models

Lesson 4.3: Characteristics of Linear FunctionsCraft-a-Graph

Module 5: Relationships Among Linear Functions

Lesson 5.3: Compare Linear FunctionsSubway Seats
Lesson 5.4: Inverses of Linear FunctionsChip the Robot

Unit 3: Build Linear Functions and Models

Module 6: Fit Linear Functions to Data

Lesson 6.1: Scatter Plots, Correlation, and Fitted LinesCorrelation Coefficient
How Hot Is It?
City Slopes
Behind the Headlines
City Data
Lesson 6.2: Residualts and Best-Fit LinesResidual Fruit
Penguin Populations

Module 7: Discrete Linear Functions

Lesson 7.1: Arithmetic Sequences Defined RecursivelySequence Carnival
Lesson 7.2: Arithmetic Sequences Defined ExplicitlyMore Visual Patterns

Module 8: Piecewise-Defined Functions

Lesson 8.1: Graph Piecewise-Defined FunctionsPumpkin Prices

Unit 4: Linear Systems

Module 9: Systems of Linear Equations

Lesson 9.1: Solve Linear Systems by GraphingLizard Lines
Lesson 9.2: Solve Linear Systems by SubstitutionShape It Up

Module 10: Linear Inequalities

Lesson 10.2: Graph Systems of Linear InequalitiesQuilts
Seeking Solutions

Unit 5: Exponential Functions and Equations

Module 11: Exponential Functions and Models

Lesson 11.1: Exponential Growth FunctionsCarlos’s Fish

Unit 6: Build Exponential Functions and Models

Module 13: Fit Exponential Functions to Data

Lesson 13.1: Scatter Plots and Fitted Exponential CurvesDetroit’s Population, Part 1
Detroit’s Population, Part 2

Module 14: Discrete Exponential Functions

Lesson 14.1: Geometric Sequences Defined RecursivelySequence Carnival
Lesson 14.2: Geometric Sequences Defined ExplicitlyMore Visual Patterns

Unit 8: Quadratic Functions and Equations

Module 17: Use Graphing and Factoring to Solve Quadratic Equations

Lesson 17.1: Solve Quadratic Equations by Graphing Quadratic FunctionsRevisiting Visual Patterns, Part 1
Quadratic Visual Patterns
On the Fence
Plenty of Parabolas
Lesson 17.3: Solve Quadratic Equations by Factoring ax^2+bx+cStomp Rockets
Two for One
Robot Launch
Lesson 17.4: Use Special Factoring Patterns to Solve Quadratic EquationsParabola Zapper
Shooting Stars

Module 18: Use Square Roots to Solve Quadratic Equations

Lesson 18.2: Solve Quadratic Equations by Completing the SquareSquare Tactic
Lesson 18.3: Use the Quadratic Formula to Solve EquationsStomp Rockets in Space

Unit 9: Function Analysis

Module 20: Function Analysis

Lesson 20.1: Choose Among Linear, Exponential, and Quadratic ModelsSorting Relationships

Unit 10: Data Analysis

Module 22: Numerical Data

Lesson 22.1: Data Distributions and Appropriate StatisticsFinding Desmo

Disclaimer

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Grade K

Unit 1: Position, Length, Height, and Sorting

Lesson 2: Describe and Compare Length and Height, Session 3Connecting Cubes

Unit 2: Numbers to 5, Shapes and Weight

Lesson 4: Count, Show and Write Numbers to 5, Session 2Skye’s Style
Lesson 5: Compare Numbers to 5, Session 4Matching Groups
Lesson 5: Compare Numbers to 5, Session 5Designing Shoes With Skye
Lesson 6: Three-Dimensional Shapes and Weight, Session 1What’s That Shape?
Lesson 6: Three-Dimensional Shapes and Weight, Session 2Building Solid Shapes
Lesson 6: Three-Dimensional Shapes and Weight, Session 5Putting Solid Shapes Together

Unit 3: Addition and Subtractions with 5 and Shapes,

Lesson 8: Two-Dimensional Shapes,
Session 1		So Much Sorting
Lesson 8: Two-Dimensional Shapes,
Session 2		What’s That Shape Called?
Another Shape

Unit 4: Numbers to 10 and Shapes

Lesson 11: Count, Show, and Write Numbers to 10, Session 1Investigate: Cafeteria Math
Fingers as Math Tools
Lesson 12: Compare Numbers to 10, Session 1Moving and Grooving
Fingers and Counters
Lesson 12: Compare Numbers to 10, Session 2More, Fewer, or the Same
Comparing Words
Lesson 12: Compare Numbers to 10, Session 5Forest Friends
Lesson 14: Compose and Decompose 10, Session 2Harry’s Hamster Wheel
Lesson 14: Compose and Decompose 10, Session 3Harry Explores Space
Lesson 14: Compose and Decompose 10, Session 4Showing What We Know About 10
Lesson 14: Compose and Decompose 10, Session 5Harry Explores the Ocean

Unit 6: Addition and Subtraction Within 10

Lesson 20: Add Within 10, Session 1Investigate: Casey’s Town
What Does It Mean to Add?
Lesson 20: Add Within 10, Session 2How Many Objects?
Lesson 20: Add Within 10, Session 3How Many Objects in Pictures?
How Will You Count?
Lesson 21: Subtract Within 10, Session 1What Does It Mean to Subtract?
Lesson 22: Add and Subtract to Solve Wold Problems, Session 1The Bus Depot

Unit 7: Teen Numbers and Shapes

Lesson 23: Compose and Decompose Teen Numbers with Tools and Drawings, Session 2Investigate: Packing Snacks
Getting Ready for the Game
Pass, Shoot, Score
Lesson 23: Compose and Decompose Teen Numbers with Tools and Drawings, Session 3How Many on the Field?
Lesson 25: Compose and Decompose Teen Numbers with Symbols, Session 2Jersey Jam!
People at the Park

Grade 1

Unit 1: Relating Addition and Subtraction

Lesson 2: Add and Subtract Within 10, Session 1What’s the Difference?
Leaping Lily Pads!
Investigate: Let’s Grow!
Lesson 2: Add and Subtract Within 10, Session 3Packing a Picnic
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems to 10, Session 2Tutu’s Garden in Maui
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems to 10, Session 2Replanting Huli
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems to 10, Session 3The Kalo Plants
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems to 10, Session 4A Community Working Together
Lesson 5: Solve Word Problems to 10, Session 5Helping Others

Unit 2: Addition and Subtraction Within 20

Lesson 6: Teen Numbers, Session 2Same Number, Different Ways
Lesson 7: Add Three Numbers, Session 2Making 10
Kitten Coaster

Unit 4: Using Tens and Ones to Organize and Count

Lesson 15: Tens and Ones, Session 1Investigate: Game Points
Lesson 15: Tens and Ones, Session 3Meeting Yara
It’s a Match
Lesson 16: Numbers to 120, Session 1How Many Cubes?
Boris’s Thimbles
Lesson 21: Add Two-Digit Numbers, Session 1How Many Tens?
Investigate: Squashes at the Playground
Lesson 21: Add Two-Digit Numbers,
Session 2		Town Helpers
Lesson 21: Add Two-Digit Numbers,
Session 3		Making Squash Butter

Unit 5: Operations with Tens and Ones

Lesson 19: Addition with Two-Digit Numbers, Session 2From Park to Table

Unit 6: Geometry and Measurement

Lesson 22: Shapes, Session 1Shapes Ying Saw
Lesson 23: Break Shapes Into Equal Parts, Session 2Fair and Square
One of the Parts, All of the Parts
Lesson 23: Break Shapes Into Equal Parts, Session 5A Bigger Part

Grade 1 (ADM G2)

Unit 1: Relating Addition and Subtraction

Lesson 1: Partner Pairs for 10, Session 3Ways to Make 10
Lesson 2: Add and Subtract Within 10, Session 3Exploring Within 10

Grade 2

Unit 1: Numbers Within 20

Lesson 2: Using Mental Math Strategies to Subtract, Session 1Awesome Aquariums

Unit 2: Numbers Within 100

Lesson 10: Solve Word Problems Involving Money, Session 1Investigate
Lesson 10: Solve Word Problems Involving Money, Session 2Discovering Coins (Part 1)
The Toy Stand
Lesson 10: Solve Word Problems Involving Money, Session 3How Much Money?
Discovering Coins (Part 2)
Lesson 10: Solve Word Problems Involving Money, Session 4The Craft Stand at the Block Party

Unit 3: Numbers Within 1000

Lesson 12: Three-Digit Numbers, Session 1Investigate: A Mistake in Mom’s Office
What Makes a Hundred?
Lesson 12: Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2Looking for Patterns
Lesson 13: Read and Write Three-Digit Numbers, Session 1What’s the Value?
Lesson 13: Read and Write Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2Mail Call!
Lesson 13: Read and Write Three-Digit Numbers, Session 3A New Representation
What’s Your Name?
All the Ways!
Lesson 15: Mental Addition and Subtraction, Session 2Turtle Hurdle
Lesson 16: Add Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2There’s Something About Berries
Lesson 18: Using Addition and Subtraction Strategies with Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2Baking With Skunk

Unit 4: Length

Lesson 25: Solving Problems About Length, Session 2Lengths of Jungle Animals
Lesson 27: Sorting and Organizing Data, Session 1Messy Measurements
Lesson 27: Sorting and Organizing Data, Session 3Bracelets and Wristbands
Lesson 26: Add and Subtract on the Number Line, Session 1Investigate
Time to Line Up!
In Full Bloom
Lesson 26: Add and Subtract on the Number Line, Session 2What’s That Number?
Lesson 26: Add and Subtract on the Number Line, Session 3Greater Than, Less Than, or Equal to

Unit 5: Shapes and Arrays

Lesson 28: Recognize and Draw Shapes, Session 2Frame It!
Lesson 28: Recognize and Draw Shapes, Session 3Measure It, Draw It
Lesson 32: Even and Odd Numbers,
Session 1		Can You Share?
Lesson 32: Even and Odd Numbers,
Session 2		Everybody, Find A Partner!
Lesson 32: Even and Odd Numbers,
Session 3		Is It Even or Odd?

Grade 2 (ADM G3)

Unit 2: Numbers Within 100

Lesson 6: Adding Two-Digit Numbers, Session 1Panda Patterns
Lesson 12: Understand Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2Investigate: Creating a Photo Gallery
Lesson 16: Add Three-Digit Numbers, Session 2How Would You Solve It?
Adding Your Way
What Is an Algorithm?
Lesson 16: Add Three-Digit Numbers, Session 3Using Fewer Digits
Determining Sums of 2 or More Addends
Lesson 16: Add Three-Digit Numbers, Session 3Adding Strategically

Unit 4: Length

Lesson 27: Read and Make Line Plots, Session 2The Plot Chickens
Let’s Make a Line Plot

Grade 3

Unit 2: Multiplication and Division

Lesson 4: Understand the Meaning of Multiplication, Session 1Equal Groups
Lesson 6: Multiply with 3, 4, and 6, Session 2Rectangles and Arrays
Lesson 8: Use Order and Grouping to Multiply, Session 2Arrays of Flavor
Lesson 11: Understand How Multiplication and Division Are Connected, Session 1It’s Chili in Here!
Lesson 12: Multiplication and Division Facts, Session 3Relating Quotients to Familiar Products

Unit 3: Multiplication

Lesson 19: Scaled Graphs, Session 1Puppy Pile
Lesson 19: Scaled Graphs, Session 42, 5, or 10?
Lesson 14: Understand Area, Session 1Tiling Figures
Lesson 14: Understand Area, Session 2Which Covers More Space?
Lesson 15: Multiply to Find Area, Session 3Area Hunt
Lesson 17: Solve One-Step Word Problems Using Multiplication and Division, Session 2Division and Multiplication Equations

Unit 4: Fractions

Lesson 21: Understand Fractions on a Number Line, Session 1Cat Crossing
Lesson 21: Understand Fractions on a Number Line, Session 2Fractions on the Number Line
Lesson 21: Understand Fractions on a Number Line, Session 3Location, Location, Location

Unit 6: Shapes

Performance TaskInvestigate: Comparing Rugs
Lesson 30: Understand Categories of Shapes, Session 1Piho’s Shapes
Lesson 31: Classify Quadrilaterals, Session 1Rectangles, Squares, and Rhombuses
Lesson 31: Classify Quadrilaterals, Session 3More Quadrilaterals

Grade 4

Unit 2: Operations

Lesson 6: Understand Multiplication as a Comparison, Session 1Sticker Mania
Lesson 6: Understand Multiplication as a Comparison, Session 2Representing “Times as Many”
Going Swimming
Lesson 8: Multiples and Factors, Session 1Hamster Homes
Lesson 8: Multiples and Factors, Session 3Factor or Multiple?
Lesson 8: Multiples and Factors, Session 4A Number Game
Lesson 9: Number and Shape Patterns, Session 1How Does It Grow?

Unit 3: Multi-Digit Operations and Measurement

Lesson 11: Multiply by One-Digit Numbers, Session 1Investigate: Packing Lei
Counting Flowers for Lei
Lesson 11: Multiply by One-Digit Numbers, Session 3A Lei Making Workshop
A Reasonable Answer
Three of a Kind
Lesson 12: Multiply by Two-Digit Numbers, Session 2Growing Flowers for the Lei
Double Decomposition
Lesson 12: Multiply by Two-Digit Numbers, Session 3Revisiting Strategies
How Many Supplies?

Unit 4: Fractions, Decimals, and Measurement

Lesson 17: Understand Equivalent Fractions, Session 1Investigate: Building Your Own Number Line
Fraction Strips
Lesson 18: Understand Equivalent Fractions, Session 3Chop It
All Kinds of Fractions
Lesson 19: Fraction Addition and Subtraction, Session 1Pizza Problems
Lesson 20: Add and Subtract Fractions, Session 4Math Pizzeria
Lesson 24: Multiply Fractions by Whole Numbers, Session 2Equal Groups of Fractions
Lesson 25: Fractions as Tenths and Hundredths, Session 3Investigate: Different Units
Lesson 26: Relate Decimals and Fractions, Session 2A New Way to Write Tenths
A New Way to Write Hundredths
Lesson 26: Relate Decimals and Fractions, Session 4Are They Equivalent?
Lesson 27: Compare Decimals, Session 2How Can You Compare?
Lesson 27: Compare Decimals, Session 3Robot Factory
Lesson 27: Compare Decimals, Session 4What’s the Order

Unit 5: Geometry and Measurement

Lesson 30: Points, Lines, Rays, and Angles, Session 3Angle Adventures
Lesson 31: Angles, Session 1The Spin on Angles
Lesson 32: Add and Subtract with Angles, Session 3Angles in Motion

Grade 5

Unit 1: Whole Number Operations and Applications

Lesson 2: Find Volume Using Unit Cubes, Session 1Which is Largest
Lesson 2: Find Volume Using Unit Cubes, Session 2Packing the Barge
Lesson 3: Find Volume Using Formulas, Session 3Putting it Together
Figures Made of Prisms
Lesson 4: Multiply Multi-Digit Numbers, Session 1Partial Products Everywhere
Lesson 4: Multiply Multi-Digit Numbers, Session 4How Do They Compare?
Lesson 5: Divide Multi-Digit Numbers, Session 4Emptying the Water Tank

Unit 2: Decimals and Fractions

Lesson 6: Understand Decimal Place Value, Session 1Investigate: Numbers Between Numbers
Lesson 6: Understand Decimal Place Value, Session 2What Is One Thousandth?
Lesson 8: Read and Write Decimals,
Session 1		Say What?
Place Value Patterns
Lesson 9: Compare and Round Decimals, Session 2Selling Collectibles
Lesson 9: Compare and Round Decimals, Session 3The Claw
Which Way Down the Mountain?
Lesson 9: Compare and Round Decimals, Session 4Rounding Races
Lesson 7: Understand Powers of 10, Session 1Monarch Butterflies
All About That Base
Powers of 10 Parade

Unit 3: More Decimals & Fractions

Lesson 18: Fractions as Division, Session 1Investigate: Sharing Sandwiches
Division Story Problems
Making Generalizations
Investigate: Folding Paper
Lesson 18: Fractions as Division, Session 2Sharing More Sandwiches
Dance Breaks
Lesson 19: Multiplication by a Fraction, Session 2Parts of Parts
Lesson 20: Multiply Fractions to Find Area, Session 2One Part of One Part
Lesson 20: Multiply Fractions to Find Area, Session 3Making Food
Lesson 22: Multiply Fractions in Word Problems, Session 3Installing Turf
Rows and Columns
Lesson 22: Multiply Fractions in Word Problems, Session 4Messy Multiplication
Applying Fraction Multiplication
Lesson 21: Exploring Multiplication as Scaling, Session 1Chores at Animal Haven
The Re-size-inator

Unit 5: Algebraic Thinking and the Coordinate Plane

Lesson 31: Understand the Coordinate Plane, Session 1Bullseye!
Lesson 31: Understand the Coordinate Plane, Session 2Creating a Coordinate System
Coordinating Satellite Repairs

Grade 6

Unit 1: Expressions and Equations: Area, Algebraic Expressions, and Exponents

iReady ClassroomAmplify Classroom
Lesson 1: Find the Area of a ParallelogramUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms
Exploring Parallelograms, Part 2

Unit 2: Decimals and Fractions: Base-Ten Operations, Division with Fractions, and Volume

Lesson 7: Add, Subtract, and Multiply Multi-Digit DecimalsUnit 4
Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals
Lesson 8: Divide Whole Numbers and Multi-Digit DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 13: Movie Time
Lesson 9: Understand Division with FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 3: Flour Planner
Lesson 10: Divide FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap

Unit 3: Ratio Reasoning: Ratio Concepts and Equivalent Ratios

Lesson 12: Understand Ratio ConceptsUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker
Lesson 13: Find Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab
Lesson 10: Disaster Preparation

Unit 4: Ratio Reasoning: Unit Rates and Percent

Lesson 15: Understand Rate ConceptsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Many Measurements
Lesson 16: Use Unit Rates to Solve ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson 6: Soft Serve
Lesson 17: Understand PercentsUnit 3
Lesson 9: Lucky Duckies

Unit 5: Algebraic Thinking: Equivalent Expressions and Equations with Variables

Lesson 19: Write and Identify Equivalent ExpressionsUnit 6
Lesson 8: Products and Sums
Take Away (coming soon!)
Lesson 22: Analyze Two-Variable RelationshipsUnit 6
Lesson 16: Subway Fares
Take Away (coming soon!)

Unit 6: Positive and Negative Numbers: Absolute Value, Inequalities, and the Coordinate Plane

Lesson 23: Understand Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 1: Can You Dig It?
Lesson 24: Order Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 4: Order in the Class
Lesson 26: Write and Graph One-Variable InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 7: Tunnel Travels

Unit 7: Statistical Thinking: Data Distributions and Measures of Center and Variability

Lesson 30: Use Dot Plots and Histograms to Describe Data DistributionsUnit 8
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 31: Interpret Median and Interquartile Range in Box PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 11: Toy Cars

Grade 7

Unit 1: Proportional Relationships: Ratios, Rates, and Circles

iReady ClassroomAmplify Classroom
Lesson 2: Find Unit Rates Involving Ratios and FractionsUnit 2
Lesson 1: Paint
Lesson 4: Represent Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Two and Two
Lesson 5: Solve Proportional Relationship Problems
Lesson 6: Solve Area and Circumference Problems Involving CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 9: Area Challenges

Unit 2: Numbers and Operations: Add and Subtract Rational Numbers

Lesson 7: Understand Addition with Negative NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors
Lesson 8: Add with Negative NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors
Lesson 9: Understand Subtraction with Negative IntegersUnit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors
Lesson 10: Add and Subtract Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors

Unit 3: Numbers and Operations: Multiply and Divide Rational Numbers

Lesson 14: Use the Four Operations with Negative NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles

Unit 4: Algebraic Thinking: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Lesson 19: Write and Solve InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep

Unit 5: Proportional Reasoning: Percents and Statistical Samples

Lesson 20: Solve Problems Involving Percents Unit 4
Lesson 5: Percent Machines
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems (coming soon!)
Lesson 22: Understand Random SamplingUnit 8
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities
Lesson 24: Compare PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island

Unit 6: Geometry: Solids, Triangles, and Angles

Lesson 28: Find Unknown Angle MeasuresUnit 7
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles
Lesson 4: Missing Measures

Unit 7: Probability: Theoretical Probability, Experimental Probability, and Compound Events

Lesson 30: Understand ProbabilityUnit 8
Lesson 1: How Likely?
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities

Grade 8

Unit 1: Geometric Figures: Rigid Transformations and Congruence

iReady ClassroomAmplify Classroom
Lesson 1: Understand Rigid Transformations and Their PropertiesUnit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers
Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding
Lesson 2: Work with Single Rigid Transformations in the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 4: Moving Day

Unit 2: Geometric Figures: Transformations, Similarity, and Angle Relationships

Lesson 4: Understand Dilations and SimilarityUnit 2
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf
Lesson 6: Describe Angle RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt
Lesson 7: Describe Angle Relationships in TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 12: Puzzling It Out

Unit 3: Linear Relationships: Slope, Linear Equations, and Systems

Lesson 8: Graph Proportional Relationships and Define SlopeUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 13: Solve Systems of Linear Equations AlgebraicallyUnit 4
Lesson 11: Make Them Balance
Lesson 12: Line Zapper

Unit 4: Functions: Linear and Nonlinear Relationships

Lesson 15: Understand FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing
Lesson 2: Guess My Rule
Lesson 16: Use Functions to Model Linear RelationshipsUnit 5
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare

Unit 5: Integer Exponents: Properties and Scientific Notation

Lesson 19: Apply Exponent Properties for Positive Integer ExponentsUnit 7
Lesson 1: Circles
Lesson 3: Power Pairs
Lesson 22: Work with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 9: Specific and Scientific
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale

Unit 6: Real Numbers: Rational Numbers, Irrational Numbers, and the Pythagorean Theorem

Lesson 23: Find Square Roots and Cube Roots to Solve ProblemsUnit 8
Lesson 4: Root Down
Lesson 25: Find Rational Approximations of Irrational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 10: Taco Truck
Lesson 27: Apply the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle
Lesson 28: Solve Problems with Volumes of Cylinders, Cones, and SpheresUnit 8
Lesson 11: Cylinders
Lesson 13: Cones

Unit 7: Statistics: Two-Variable Data and Fitting a Linear Model

Lesson 29: Analyze Scatter Plots and Fit a Linear Model to DataUnit 6
Lesson 3: Robots
Lesson 4: Dapper Cats
Lesson 6: Find the Fit

Disclaimer

This document is for informational purposes only; references to third-party programs do not imply endorsement or affiliation, and all trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Grade 6

Unit 1: Numbers

GO Math!Desmos Math 6–A1
Module 4: Operations with Fractions
Lesson 4.1: Applying GCF and LCM to Fraction OperationsUnit 4
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Break It Down
Lesson 4.2: Dividing FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: Division Challenges
Lesson 10: Swap Meet (Print available)
Practice Day
Lesson 4.3: Dividing Mixed NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 10: Swap Meet
Practice Day
Lesson 4.4: Solving Multistep Problems with Fractions and Mixed NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 11: Classroom Comparisons
Lesson 12: Puzzling Areas [Free lesson]
Lesson 13: Volume Challenges
Lesson 14: Planter Planner
Module 5: Operations with Decimals
Lesson 5.1: Dividing Whole NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch
Lesson 10: Return of Long Division
Lesson 5.2: Adding and Subtracting DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Decimal Diagrams [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Fruit by the Pound
Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 5.3: Multiplying DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying With Areas
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods
Lesson 5.4: Dividing DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 8: Division Diagrams
Lesson 10: Return of Long Division
Lesson 11: Movie Time [Free lesson]
Lesson 5.5: Applying Operations with Rational NumbersUnit 5
Practice Day 1
Lesson 12: Budget Vehicles
Lesson 13: Grocery Prices

Unit 2: Number Operations

Module 4: Operations with Fractions
Lesson 4.1: Applying GCF and LCM to Fraction OperationsUnit 4
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Break It Down
Lesson 4.2: Dividing FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: Division Challenges
Lesson 10: Swap Meet (Print available)
Practice Day (Print available)
Lesson 4.3: Dividing Mixed NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 10: Swap Meet (Print available)
Practice Day
Lesson 4.4: Solving Multistep Problems with Fractions and Mixed NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 11: Classroom Comparisons
Lesson 12: Puzzling Areas (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 13: Volume Challenges
Lesson 14: Planter Planner (Print available)
Module 5: Operations with Decimals
Lesson 5.1: Dividing Whole NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of Long Division
Lesson 5.2: Adding and Subtracting DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Decimal Diagrams [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Fruit by the Pound
Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 5.3: Multiplying DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying With Areas
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods (Print available)
Lesson 5.4: Dividing DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 8: Division Diagrams
Lesson 10: Return of Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 11: Movie Time [Free lesson]
Lesson 5.5: Applying Operations with Rational NumbersUnit 5
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Budget Vehicles (Print available)
Lesson 13: Grocery Prices (Print available)

Unit 3: Proportionality, Ratios, and Rates

Module 6: Representing Ratios and Rates
Lesson 6.1: RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 7:  Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 12: Mixing Paint, Part 2
Lesson 6.2: Rates Unit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available)
Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory (Print available)
Lesson 7: More Soft Serve
Lesson 13: A County as a Village
Lesson 6.3: Using Ratios and Rates to Solve ProblemsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Balancing Act
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 9: Disaster Preparation [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Balloons
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Lesson 13:City Planning
Lesson 14: Lunch Waste (Print available)
Module 7: Applying Ratios and Rates
Lesson 7.1: Ratios, Rates, Tables, and GraphsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 9: Disaster Preparation [Free lesson]
Unit 3
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 7.2: Solving Problems with Proportions
Lesson 7.3: Converting Within Measurement SystemsUnit 3
Lesson 2: Counting Classrooms
Lesson 7.4: Converting Between Measurement SystemsUnit 3
Lesson 3: Pen Pals
Module 8:  Percents
Lesson 8.1 Understanding Percent.Unit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 8.2: Percents, Fractions, and Decimals.Unit 3
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 8.3: Solving Percent ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village

Unit 4: Equivalent Expressions

Module 9: Generating Equivalent Numerical Expressions
Lesson 9.1: ExponentsUnit 6
Lesson 10: Powers
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 9.2: Prime Factorization
Lesson 9.3: Order of Operations
Module 10: Generating Equivalent Algebraic Expressions
Lesson 10.1: Modeling and Writing Expressions
Lesson 10.2: Evaluating Expressions		Unit 6
Lesson 6: Vari-apples
Lesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Lesson 10.3: Generating Equivalent ExpressionsUnit 6
Lesson 7: Border Tiles
Lesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)

Unit 5: Equations and Inequalities

Module 11:  Equations and Relationships
Lesson 11.1:  Writing Equations to Represent Situations
Lesson 11.2:  Addition and Subtraction Equations
Lesson 11.3:  Multiplication and Division Equations		Unit 6
Lesson 1:  Weight for It [Free lesson]
Lesson 2:  Five Equation (Print available)
Lesson 3:  Hanging Around
Lesson 4:  Hanging It Up
Lesson 5:  Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 11.4: Writing InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 6:  Tunnel Travels [Free lesson]
Lesson 7:  Comparing Weights
Lesson 8:  Shira’s Solutions
Module 12:  Relationships in Two Variables
Lesson 12.1:  Graphing on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 9:  Sand Dollar Search
Lesson 10:  The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 11:  Polygon MakerLesson 12:  Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 12.2:  Independent and Dependent Variables in Tables and GraphsUnit 6
Lesson 13:  Turtles All the Way
Lesson 14:  Representing Relationships
Lesson 15:  Connecting Representations (Print available) 
Lesson 16:(Print available)  Subway Fares [Free lesson]
Lesson 12.3:  Writing Equations from Tables.Unit 6
Lesson 15:  Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 16:  Subway Fares (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 12.4:  Representing Algebraic Relationships in Tables and GraphsUnit 6
Lesson 14:  Representing Relationships
Lesson 15:  Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 16:  Subway Fares (Print available) [Free lesson]

Unit 6: Relationships in Geometry

GO Math!Desmos Math 6–A1
Module 13: Area and Polygons
Lesson 13.1: Area of QuadrilateralsUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 12: Puzzling Areas (Print available)
Lesson 13.2: Area of TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 7: Off the Grid, Part 2
Lesson 13.3: Solving Area EquationsUnit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 7: Off the Grid, Part 2
Lesson 13.4: Area of PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 8: Piles of Polygons 
Module 14:  Distance and Area in the
Coordinate Plane
Lesson 14.1: Distance in the Coordinate Plane
Lesson 14.2: Polygons in the Coordinate Plane		Unit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 8: Piles of Polygons 
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Module 15:  Surface Area and Volume
of Solids
Lesson 15.1: Nets and Surface AreaUnit 1
Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 11: Nothing But Nets (Print available)
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take it To Go
Lesson 15.2: Volume of Rectangular Prisms
Lesson 15.3: Solving Volume Equations		Unit 4
Lesson 13: Volume Challenges
Lesson 14: Planter Planner (Print available)

Unit 7: Measurement and Data

Module 16: Displaying, Analyzing, and
Summarizing Data
Lesson 16.1: Measures of CenterUnit 8
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 8: Pop It!
Lesson 11: Toy Cars [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)
Lesson 16.2: Mean Absolute DeviationUnit 8
Lesson 8: Pop It!
Lesson 9: Hoops
Lesson 10: Hollywood Part 1 (Print available)
Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 ( Print available)
Lesson 16.3: Box PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 15: Hollywood Part 2
Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)
Lesson 16.4: Dot Plots and Data DistributionUnit 8
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 13: Pumpkin Patch
Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)
Lesson 16.5: HistogramsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms
Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)

Grade 7

Unit 1: The Number System

GO Math!Desmos Math 6–A1
Module 1:  Adding and Subtracting Integers
Lesson 1.1: Adding Integers With the Same Sign
Lesson 1.2: Adding Integers With Different Signs
Lesson 1.3: Subtracting Integers		Unit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: More Floats and Anchors
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 1.4:  Applying Addition and Subtraction of IntegersUnit 5
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 12: Arctic Sea Ice (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Module 2: Multiplying and Dividing Integers
Lesson 2.1: Multiplying Integers Unit 5
Lesson 6: Floating in Groups
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 2.2: Dividing IntegersUnit 5
Lesson 6: Floating in Groups
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 2.3: Applying Integer OperationsUnit 5
Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 12: Arctic Sea Ice (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Module 3:  Rational Numbers
Lesson 3.1: Rational Numbers and Decimals
Lesson 3.2: Adding Rational Numbers
Lesson 3.3: Subtracting Rational Numbers		Unit 5
Lesson 2: More Floats and Anchors
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 3.4: Multiplying Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 6: Floating in Groups
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 3.5: Dividing Rational Numbers Unit 5
Lesson 6: Floating in Groups
Lesson 3.6: Applying Rational Number OperationsUnit 5
Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 12: Arctic Sea Ice (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)

Unit 2: Ratios and Proportional Relationships

Module 4:  Rates and Proportionality
Lesson 4.1: Unit RatesUnit 2
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Unit 4
Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 4.2: Constant Rates of ChangeUnit 2
Lesson 1: Paint [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4:  Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 4.3:  Proportional Relationships and GraphsUnit 2
Lesson 1: Paint [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 8: DinoPops [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Module 5:  Proportions and Percent
Lesson 5.1: Percent Increase and DecreaseUnit 4
Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: More and Less
Lesson 5: All the Equations
Lesson 7: Percent Machines [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 13: Decimal Deep Dive (Print available)
Lesson 5.2: Rewriting Percent ExpressionsUnit 4
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage
Lesson 5.3: Applications of PercentUnit 4
Lesson 6: 100% (Print available)
Lesson 8: Tax and Tip
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]

Unit 3: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Module 6: Expressions and Equations
Lesson 6.1: Algebraic Expressions
Lesson 6.2: One-Step Equations with Rational Coefficients
Lesson 6.3: Writing Two-Step EquationsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)
Unit 6
Lesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)
Lesson 9: Always-Equal Machines
Lesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)
Lesson 6.4: Solving Two-Step EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 3:  Equations
Lesson 4:  Seeing Structure (Print Available)
Lesson 6:  Balancing Equations
Lesson 7:  Keeping It True (Print Available)
Lesson 11:  Equation Roundtable (Print Available)
Lesson 12:  Community Day (Print Available)
Module 6: Expressions and Equations
Lesson 7.1: Writing and Solving One-Step InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 2: Unbalanced Hangers
Lesson 15: Budgeting (Print available)
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep
Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)
Lesson 7.2: Writing Two-Step InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 15: Budgeting (Print available)
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]
Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)
Lesson 7.3: Solving Two-Step InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 14: Unbalanced Hangers
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]
Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)

Unit 4: Geometry

Module 8: Modeling Geometric Figures
Lesson 8.1: Similar Shapes and Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 1: Scaling Machines [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Scaling Robots
Lesson 3: Make It Scale
Lesson 4: Scale Factor Challenges
Lesson 5: Tiles
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Unit 7
Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 7: More Than One?
Lesson 8.2: Geometric DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Unit 7
Lesson 8:  Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Lesson 8.3: Cross SectionsUnit 7
Lesson 9: Slicing Solids
Lesson 8.4: Angle RelationshipsUnit 7
Lesson 1: Pinwheels
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Module 9:  Circumference, Area, and Volume
Lesson 9.1: CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 3: Measuring Around [Free lesson]
Lesson 9.2: Area of CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Lesson 9.3: Area of Composite FiguresUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]
Lesson 9.4: Solving Surface Area ProblemsUnit 7
Lesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print available)
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 9.5: Solving Volume ProblemsUnit 7
Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities

Unit 5: Statistics

Module 10: Random Samples and
Populations
Lesson 10.1: Populations and SamplesUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 13: Plots and Samples
Lesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)
Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)
Lesson 10.2: Making Inferences from a Random Sample
Lesson 10.3: Generating Random Samples		Unit 8
Lesson 13: Plots and Samples
Lesson 15: Asthma Rate (Print available)
Module 11: Analyzing and Comparing Data
Lesson 11.1: Comparing Data Displayed in Dot PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)
Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)
Lesson 11.2: Comparing Data Displayed in Box PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 13: Plots and Samples
Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)
Lesson 11.3: Using Statistical Measures to Compare PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]
Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)

Unit 6: Probability

Module 12: Experimental Probability
Lesson 12.1: ProbabilityUnit 8
Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson]
Lesson 12.2: Experimental Probability of Simple EventsUnit 8
Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 4: Spin Class
Lesson 5: Is It Fair?
Lesson 12.3: Experimental Probability of Compound EventsUnit 8
Lesson 7: Weather or Not
Lesson 12.4: Making Predictions with Experimental ProbabilityUnit 8
Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 5: Is It Fair?
Module 13: Theoretical Probability and
Simulations
Lesson 13.1: Theoretical Probability of Simple EventsUnit 8
Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson]
Lesson 13.2: Theoretical Probability of Compound EventsUnit 8
Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 13.3: Making Predictions with Theoretical ProbabilityUnit 8
Lesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)
Lesson 13.4: Using Technology to Conduct a SimulationUnit 8
Lesson 7: Weather or Not
Lesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)

Grade 8

Unit 1: Real Numbers, Exponents, and Scientific Notation

GO Math!Desmos Math 6–A1
Module 1: Real Numbers
Lesson 1.1: Rational and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 1.2: Sets of Real Numbers		Unit 8
Lesson 12: Fractions to Decimals
Lesson 13: Decimals to Fractions
Lesson 14: Hit the Target
Lesson 1.3: Ordering Real NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 4: Root Down [Free lesson]
Module 2: Exponents and Scientific
Notation
Lesson 2.1: Integer ExponentsUnit 7
Lesson 1: Circles [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Combining Exponents
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers
Lesson 5: Zero and Negative Exponents
Lesson 6: Write a Rule (Print available)
Lesson 2.2: Scientific Notation with Positive Powers of 10Unit 7
Lesson 7: Scales and Weights
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 2.3: Scientific Notation with Negative Powers of 10Unit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 2.4: Operations with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 10: Solar System [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: City Lights
Lesson 13: Star Power 

Unit 2: Proportional and Nonproportional Relationships and Functions

Module 3: Proportional Relationships
Lesson 3.1: Representing Proportional Relationships.Unit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Water Tank
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 3.2: Rate of Change and SlopeUnit 2
Lesson 9: Water Slide
Lesson 10: Points on a Line
Unit 3
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 9: Coin Capture
Unit 5
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]
Lesson 3.3: Interpreting the Unit Rate as SlopeUnit 3
Lesson 2: Water Tank
Lesson 3: Posters
Module 4: Nonproportional Relationships
Lesson 4.1: Representing Linear Nonproportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]
Lesson 4.2: Determining Slope and y-interceptUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]
Lesson 4.3: Graphing Linear Nonproportional Relationships using Slope and y-intercept.Unit 3
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 9: Coin Capture
Lesson 4.4: Proportional and Nonproportional SituationsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]
Module 5: Writing Linear Equations
Lesson 5.1: Writing Linear Equations from Situations and GraphsUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Coin Capture
Lesson 5.2: Writing Linear Equations from a Table
Lesson 5.3: Linear Relationships and Bivariate DataUnit 6
Lesson 1: Click Bait
Lesson 2: Wing Span
Lesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Dapper Cats [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Fit Fights [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 8: Animal Brains
Module 6: Functions
Lesson 6.1: Identifying and Representing FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Guess My Rule [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]
Lesson 6.2: Describing FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6.3: Comparing FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6.4: Analyzing GraphsUnit 5
Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 9: Piecing It Together

Unit 3: Solving Equations and Systems of Equations

Module 7:  Solving Linear Equations
Lesson 7.1: Equations with the Variable on Both SidesUnit 4
Lesson 2: Keep It Balanced
Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?
Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Lesson 7.2: Equations with Rational NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7.3: Equations with the Distributive PropertyUnit 4
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?
Lesson 7.4: Equations with Many Solutions or No SolutionUnit 4
Lesson 7:  All, Some, or None?
Module 8:  Solving Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 8.1: Solving Systems of Linear Equations by Graphing.Unit 4
Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?
Lesson 10: On Both Lines
Lesson 11: Make Them Balance [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Line Zapper [Free lesson]
Lesson 8.2: Solving Systems by SubstitutionUnit 4
Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 14: Strategic Solving, Part 2 (Print available)
Lesson 8.3: Solving Systems by Elimination
Lesson 8.4: Solving Systems by Elimination with Multiplication
Lesson 8.5: Solving Special SystemsUnit 4
Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2

Unit 4: Transformational Geometry

Module 9:  Transformations and Congruence
Lesson 9.1: Properties of Translations
Lesson 9.2: Properties of Reflections
Lesson 9.3:  Properties of Rotations		Unit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Transformation Golf
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Connecting the Dots [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Bending, No Stretching
Lesson 13: Tessellate
Lesson 9.4: Algebraic Representations of Transformations
Lesson 9.5: Congruent FiguresUnit 1
Lesson 7: Are They the Same?
Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?
Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Module 10: Transformations and Similarity
Lesson 10.1: Properties of DilationsUnit 2
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane (Print available)
Lesson 5: Transformation Golf With Dilations
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 10.2: Algebraic Representations of Dilations
Lesson 10.3: Similar FiguresUnit 2
Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane (Print available)
Lesson 5: Transformation Golf With Dilations
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?
Lesson 8: Shadows

Unit 5: Measurement Geometry

Module 11: Angle Relationships in Parallel Lines and Triangles
Lesson 11.1: Parallel Lines Cut by a Transversal.Unit 1
Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Lesson 12: Puzzling It Out [Free lesson]
Lesson 11.2: Angle Theorems for TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 12: Puzzling It Out [Free lesson]
Lesson 11.3: Angle-Angle SimilarityUnit 2
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?
Module 12: Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 12.1: The Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 6: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Taco Truck [Free lesson]
Lesson 12.2: Converse of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 9: Make It Right
Lesson 12.3: Distance Between Two PointsUnit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Module 13: Volume
Lesson 13.1: Volume of CylindersUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume Lab
Lesson 11: Cylinders [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 13.2: Volume of ConesUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume Lab
Lesson 13: Cones [Free lesson]
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 13.3: Volume of SpheresUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume Lab
Lesson 15: Spheres

Unit 6: Statistics

Module 14: Scatter Plots
Lesson 14.1: Scatter Plots and AssociationUnit 6
Lesson 1: Click Battle
Lesson 2: Wing Span
Lesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 8: Animal Brains
Lesson 14.2: Trend Lines and PredictionsUnit 6
Lesson 4: Dapper Cats [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Fit Fights [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Animal Brains
Module 15: Two-Way Tables
Lesson 15.1: Two-Way Frequency TablesUnit 6
Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Lesson 15.2: Two-Way Relative Frequency TablesUnit 6
Lesson 10: Finding Associations [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Federal Budgets

Grade 6

Module 1: Ratios and Unit Rates

Eureka MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic A Representing and Reasoning About Ratios 
Lesson 1: Ratios
Lesson 2: Ratios		Unit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3: Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 4: Equivalent Ratios		Unit 2
Lesson 3: Rice Ratios
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Balancing Act
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 8 World Records (Print available)
Lesson 11 Community Life (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 5: Solving Problems by Finding Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 6: Solving Problems by Finding Equivalent Ratios		Unit 2
Lesson 5 Balancing Act
 
Lesson 7: Associated Ratios and the Value of a Ratio
Lesson 8: Equivalent Ratios Defined Through the Value of a Ratio		Unit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Topic B Collections of Equivalent Ratios 
Lesson 9: Tables of Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 10: The Structure of Ratio Tables-Additive and MultiplicativeUnit 2
Lesson 10: Balloons
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Lesson 11: Comparing Ratios Using Ratio TablesUnit 2
Lesson 10: Balloons
Lesson 12: From Ratio Tables to Double Number Line DiagramsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available)
Lesson 12: Mixing Paint, Part 2
Lesson 14: Lunch Waste (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 13: From Ratio Tables to Equations Using the Value of a Ratio 
Lesson 14: From Ratio Tables, Equations, and Double Number Line Diagrams to Plots on the Coordinate Plane 
Lesson 15: A Synthesis of Representations of Equivalent Ratio Collections 
Topic C Unit Rates 
Lesson 16: From Ratio to RatesUnit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available)
 
Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 17: From Rates to Ratios 
Lesson 18: Finding a Rate by Dividing Two QuantitiesUnit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 7: More Soft Serve
Lesson 19: Comparison Shopping-Unit Price and Related Measurement Conversions
Lesson 20: Comparison Shopping-Unit Price and Related Measurement Conversions
Lesson 21: Getting the Job Done—Speed, Work, and Measurement Units
Lesson 22: Getting the Job Done—Speed, Work, and Measurement Units		Unit 3
Lesson 2: Counting Classrooms
Lesson 3: Pen Pals
Lesson 23: Problem-Solving Using Rates, Unit Rates, and Conversions.Unit 3
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Topic D Percent 
Lesson 24: Percent and Rates per 100Unit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 25: A Fraction as a Percent 
Lesson 26: Percent of a Quantity.Unit 3
Lesson 10: What´s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 27: Solving Percent Problems
Lesson 28: Solving Percent Problems
Lesson 29: Solving Percent Problems		Unit 3
Lesson 10: What´s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 2: Arithmetic Operations Including Division of Fractions

Lesson 1: Interpreting Division of a Fraction by a Whole Number—Visual Models.Unit 4
Lesson 2: Making Connections (Print available)
Lesson 2: Interpreting Division of a Whole Number by a Fraction —Visual Models.Unit 4
Lesson 1: Cookie Cutter
Lesson 3: Flour Planner [Free lesson]
Lesson 4: Flower Planters
Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)
Lesson 3: Interpreting and Computing Division of a Fraction by a Fraction—More Models
Lesson 4: Interpreting and Computing Division of a Fraction by a Fraction—More Models		Unit 4
Lesson 5: Garden Bricks
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Break It Down
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: Division Challenges
Lesson 10: Swap Meet (Print available)
Practice Day
Lesson 5: Creating Division Stories. 
Lesson 6: More Division Stories. 
Lesson 7: The Relationship Between Visual Fraction Models and Equations 
Lesson 8: Dividing Fractions and Mixed NumbersUnit 4
Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap [Free lesson]
Topic B Multi-Digit Decimal Operations—Adding, Subtracting, and Multiplying
Lesson 9: Sums and Differences of DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Decimal Diagrams [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Fruit by the Pound
Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 10: The Distributive Property and the Products of DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods (Print available)
Lesson 11: Fraction Multiplication and the Products of DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods (Print available)
Topic C Dividing Whole Numbers and Decimals
Lesson 12: Estimating Digits in a Quotient 
Lesson 13: Dividing Multi-Digit Numbers Using the AlgorithmUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 14: The Division Algorithm—Converting Decimal Division into Whole Number Division Using Fractions. 
Lesson 15: The Division Algorithm—Converting Decimal Division into Whole Number Division Using Mental Math 
Topic D Number Theory—Thinking Logically About Multiplicative Arithmetic 
Lesson 16: Even and Odd Numbers 
Lesson 17: Divisibility Tests for 3 and 9 
Lesson 18: Least Common Multiple and Greatest Common FactorUnit 5
Lesson 14: Common Multiples
Lesson 15: Common Factors
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 19: The Euclidean Algorithm as an Application of the Long Division Algorithm 

Module 3: Rational Numbers

Lesson 1: Positive and Negative Numbers on the Number Line—Opposite Direction and ValueUnit 7Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 2: Real-World Positive and Negative Numbers and Zero.
Lesson 3: Real-World Positive and Negative Numbers and Zero.		Unit 7 Lesson 4: Sub-Zero
Lesson 4: The Opposite of a Number
Lesson 5: The Opposite of a Number’s Opposite
Lesson 6: Rational Numbers on the Number Line		Unit 7Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Topic B Order and Absolute Value
Lesson 7: Ordering Integers and Other Rational Numbers
Lesson 8: Ordering Integers and Other Rational Numbers
Lesson 9: Comparing Integers and Other Rational Numbers		Unit 7Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Writing and Interpreting Inequality Statements Involving Rational Numbers 
Lesson 11: Absolute Value—Magnitude and Distance
Lesson 12: The Relationship Between Absolute Value and Order		Unit 7Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Lesson 13: Statements of Order in the Real World. 
Topic C Rational Numbers and the Coordinate Plane 
Lesson 14: Ordered Pairs
Lesson 15: Locating Ordered Pairs on the Coordinate Plane		Unit 7Lesson 9: Sand Dollar SearchLesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate PlaneLesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 16: Symmetry in the Coordinate Plane. 
Lesson 17: Drawing the Coordinate Plane and Points on the PlaneLesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 18: Distance on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 19: Problem Solving and the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 4: Expressions and Equations

Topic A Relationships of the Operations 
Lesson 1: The Relationship of Addition and Subtraction 
Lesson 2: The Relationship of Multiplication and Division 
Lesson 3: The Relationship of Multiplication and Addition. 
Lesson 4: The Relationship of Division and Subtraction 
Topic B Special Notations of Operations 
Lesson 5: ExponentsUnit 6Lesson 10: PowersLesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 6: The Order of Operations 
Topic C Replacing Letters and Numbers 
Lesson 7: Replacing Letters with Numbers
Lesson 8: Replacing Numbers with Letters		Unit 6Lesson 7: Border TilesLesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Topic D Expanding, Factoring, and Distributing Expressions 
Lesson 9: Writing Addition and Subtraction ExpressionsUnit 6Lesson 6: Vari-applesLesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences
Lesson 10: Writing and Expanding Multiplication Expressions
Lesson 11: Factoring Expressions
Lesson 12: Distributing Expressions		Unit 6Lesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences
Lesson 13: Writing Division Expressions 
Lesson 14: Writing Division Expressions 
Topic E Expressing Operations in Algebraic Form 
Lesson 15: Read Expressions in Which Letters Stand for Numbers
Lesson 16: Write Expressions in Which Letters Stand for Numbers
Lesson 17: Write Expressions in Which Letters Stand for Numbers		Unit 6Lesson 6: Vari-applesLesson 7: Border Tiles
Topic F Writing and Evaluating Expressions and Formulas 
Lesson 18: Writing and Evaluating Expressions—Addition and Subtraction
Lesson 19: Substituting to Evaluate Addition and Subtraction Expressions
Lesson 20: Writing and Evaluating Expressions—Multiplication and Division
Lesson 21: Writing and Evaluating Expressions—Multiplication and Addition		Unit 6Lesson 7: Border TilesLesson 8: Products and Sums [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and DifferencesLesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 22: Writing and Evaluating Expressions—ExponentsUnit 6Lesson 10: PowersLesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)Lesson 12: Squares and CubesPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic G Solving Equations 
Lesson 23: True and False Number Sentences
Lesson 24: True and False Number Sentences		Unit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]
Lesson 25: Finding Solutions to Make Equations TrueUnit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Five Equations
Lesson 26: One-Step Equations—Addition and SubtractionUnit 6Lesson 1: Weight for It [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Five EquationsLesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 27: One-Step Equations—Multiplication and Division
Lesson 28: Two-Step Problems—All Operations
Lesson 29: Multi-Step Problems—All Operations		Unit 6Lesson 3: Hanging AroundLesson 4: Hanging It UpLesson 5: Swap and Solve
Topic H Applications of Equations 
Lesson 30: One-Step Problems in the Real World
Lesson 31: Problems in Mathematical TermsLesson Lesson 32: Multi-Step Problems in the Real World		Unit 6Lesson 3: Hanging AroundLesson 4: Hanging It UpLesson 5: Swap and SolvePractice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 33: From Equations to Inequalities
Lesson 34: Writing and Graphing Inequalities in Real-World Problems		Unit 7Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Comparing WeightsLesson 8: Shira´s Solutions

Module 5: Area, Surface Area, and Volume Problems

Topic A: Area of Triangles, Quadrilaterals, and Polygons
Lesson 1: The Area of Parallelograms Through Rectangle FactsUnit 1Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 2: The Area of Right Triangles
Lesson 3: The Area of Acute Triangles Using Height and Base		Unit 1Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)Lesson 6: Triangles and ParallelogramsLesson 7: Off the Grid, Part 2
Lesson 4: The Area of All Triangles Using Height and BaseUnit 1Lesson 6: Triangles and ParallelogramsLesson 7: Off the Grid, Part 2
Lesson 5: The Area of Polygons Through Composition and DecompositionUnit 1Lesson 2: LettersLesson 8: Pile of PolygonsPractice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 6: Area in the Real World 
Topic B Polygons on the Coordinate Plane 
Lesson 7: Distance on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1Lesson 8: Pile of Polygons
Lesson 8: Drawing Polygons in the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 9: Determining Perimeter and Area of Polygons on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1Lesson 8: Pile of Polygons
Lesson 10: Distance, Perimeter, and Area in the Real World 
Topic C Volume of Right Rectangular Prisms 
Lesson 11: Volume with Fractional Edge Lengths and Unit CubesUnit 4Lesson 11: Classroom ComparisonsLesson 12: Puzzling Areas (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Volume ChallengesLesson 14: Planter Planner (Print available)
Lesson 12: From Unit Cubes to the Formulas for Volume  
Lesson 13: The Formulas for Volume 
Lesson 14: Volume in the Real WorldUnit 4Lesson 14: Planter Planner (Print available)
Topic D Nets and Surface Area 
Lesson 15: Representing Three-Dimensional Figures Using Nets
Lesson 16: Constructing Nets
Lesson 17: From Nets to Surface Area		Unit 1Lesson 10: Plenty of PolyhedraLesson 11: Nothing But Nets (Print available)Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 18: Determining Surface Area of Three-Dimensional FiguresUnit 1Lesson 9: Renata´s Stickers [Free lesson]Lesson 10: Plenty of PolyhedraLesson 11: Nothing But Nets (Print available)Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 19: Surface Area and Volume in the Real World 
Lesson 19a: Addendum Lesson for Modeling―Applying Surface Area and Volume to Aquariums 
Lesson 3: The Area of Acute Triangles Using Height and BaseUnit 1Lesson 5 Exploring TrianglesLesson 6 Triangles and ParallelogramsLesson 7 Off the Grid, Part 2

Module 6: Statistics

Topic A Understanding Distributions 
Lesson 1: Posing Statistical QuestionsUnit 8 Lesson 1: Screen TimeLesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 2: Displaying a Data Distribution
Lesson 3: Creating a Dot Plot		Unit 8 Lesson 2: Dot PlotsLesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 4: Creating a Histogram
Lesson 5: Describing a Distribution Displayed in a Histogram		Unit 8Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens [Free lesson]Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Topic B Summarizing a Distribution That Is Approximately Symmetric Using the Mean and Mean Absolute Deviation 
Lesson 6: Describing the Center of a Distribution Using the Mean
Lesson 7: The Mean as a Balance Point		Unit 8Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 8: Variability in a Data DistributionUnit 8Lesson 8: Pop It!
Topic 9: The Mean Absolute Deviation (MAD).Unit 8Lesson 9: Hoops
Lesson 10: Describing Distributions Using the Mean and MAD
Lesson 11: Describing Distributions Using the Mean and MAD		Unit 8Lesson 10 Hollywood Part 1Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic C Summarizing a Distribution That Is Skewed Using the Median and the Interquartile Range 
Lesson 12: Describing the Center of a Distribution Using the MedianUnit 8Lesson 11: Toy Cars [Free lesson]Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 13: Describing Variability Using the Interquartile Range (IQR)Unit 8Lesson 13: Pumpkin Patch
Lesson 14: Summarizing a Distribution Using a Box Plot
Lesson 15: More Practice with Box Plots		Unit 8Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 16: Understanding Box PlotsUnit 8Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 15: Hollywood Part 2Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic D Summarizing and Describing Distributions 
Lesson 17: Developing a Statistical Project 
Lesson 18: Connecting Graphical Representations and Numerical SummariesUnit 8Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens [Free lesson]
Lesson 19: Comparing Data DistributionsUnit 8Lesson 15: Hollywood Part 2
Lesson 20: Describing Center, Variability, and Shape of a Data Distribution from a Graphical Representation
Lesson 21: Summarizing a Data Distribution by Describing Center, Variability, and Shape		Unit 8Lesson 16: Hollywood Part 3 (Print available)
Lesson 22: Presenting a Summary of a Statistical Project 
Lesson 3: Creating a Dot PlotUnit 8Lesson 2 Dot PlotsLesson 3 Minimum Wage [Free lesson]Lesson 4 Lots More Dots

Grade 7

Module 1: Ratios and Proportional Relationships

Eureka MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic A Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 1: An Experience in Relationships as Measuring RateUnit 2
Lesson 1: Paint [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
 
Unit 4
Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)
Lesson 2: Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2  
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
 
Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 3: Identifying Proportional and Non-Proportional Relationships in Tables
Lesson 4: Identifying Proportional and Non-Proportional Relationships in Tables		Unit 2
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Identifying Proportional and Non-Proportional Relationships in Graphs
Lesson 6: Identifying Proportional and Non-Proportional Relationships in Graphs		Unit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Topic B Unit Rate and the Constant of Proportionality 
Lesson 7: Unit Rate as the Constant of ProportionalityUnit 2
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 8: Representing Proportional Relationships with Equations
Lesson 9: Representing Proportional Relationships with Equations		Unit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 10: Interpreting Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Topic C Ratios and Rates Involving Fractions 
Lesson 11: Ratios of Fractions and Their Unit Rates
Lesson 12: Ratios of Fractions and Their Unit Rates		Unit 2
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two [Free lesson]
Lesson 13: Finding Equivalent Ratios Given the Total QuantityUnit 2  
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 14: Multi-Step Ratio Problems 
Lesson 15: Equations of Graphs of Proportional Relationships Involving FractionsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Topic D Ratios of Scale Drawings 
Lesson 16: Relating Scale Drawings to Ratios and RatesUnit 1
Lesson 1: Scaling Machines [Free lesson]
Lesson 17: The Unit Rate as the Scale FactorUnit 1
Lesson 2: Scaling Robots
Lesson 3: Make It Scale
Lesson 4: Scale Factor Challenges
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 18: Computing Actual Lengths from a Scale DrawingUnit 1
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 19: Computing Actual Areas from a Scale DrawingUnit 1
Lesson 5: Tiles
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)
Lesson 20: An Exercise in Creating a Scale Drawing
Lesson 21: An Exercise in Changing Scales
Lesson 22: An Exercise in Changing Scales		Unit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 2: Rational Numbers

Topic A Addition and Subtraction of Integers and Rational Numbers 
Lesson 1: Opposite Quantities Combine to Make ZeroUnit 5
Lesson 1: Floats and Anchors [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Using the Number Line to Model the Addition of Integers
Lesson 3: Understanding Addition of Integers
Lesson 4: Efficiently Adding Integers and Other Rational Numbers
Lesson 5: Understanding Subtraction of Integers and Other Rational Numbers		Unit 5
Lesson 2: More Floats and Anchors
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 6: The Distance Between Two Rational Numbers 
Lesson 7: Addition and Subtraction of Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10; Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 8: Applying the Properties of Operations to Add and Subtract Rational Numbers 
Lesson 9: Applying the Properties of Operations to Add and Subtract Rational Numbers 
Topic B Multiplication and Division of Integers and Rational Numbers 
Lesson 10: Understanding Multiplication of Integers
Lesson 11: Develop Rules for Multiplying Signed Numbers		Unit 5
Lesson 6: Floating in Groups
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Division of IntegersUnit 5
Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 13: Converting Between Fractions and Decimals Using Equivalent Fractions 
Lesson 14: Converting Rational Numbers to Decimals Using Long DivisionUnit 4
Lesson 13: Decimal Deep Dive (Print available)
Lesson 15: Multiplication and Division of Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 8: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles [Free lesson]
Lesson 12: Arctic Sea Ice (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 16: Applying the Properties of Operations to Multiply and Divide Rational Numbers 
Topic C Applying Operations with Rational Numbers to Expressions and Equations 
Lesson 17: Comparing Tape Diagram Solutions to Algebraic SolutionsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 18: Writing, Evaluating, and Finding Equivalent Expressions with Rational Numbers
Lesson 19: Writing, Evaluating, and Finding Equivalent Expressions with Rational Numbers		Unit 5
Lesson 9 Expressions
Lesson 20: Investments—Performing Operations with Rational Numbers
Lesson 21: If-Then Moves with Integer Number Cards
Lesson 22: Solving Equations Using Algebra
Lesson 23: Solving Equations Using Algebra		Unit 6
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 6: Balancing Equations
Lesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)
Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)
 
Unit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers

Module 3: Expressions and Equations

Topic A Use Properties of Operations to Generate Equivalent Expressions 
Lesson 1: Generating Equivalent Expressions
Lesson 2: Generating Equivalent Expressions		Unit 5 Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)Unit 6Lesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 3: Writing Products as Sums and Sums as Products
Lesson 4: Writing Products as Sums and Sums as Products		Unit 6 Lesson 2: Smudged ReceiptsLesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)Lesson 8: Factoring and ExpandingLesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Using the Identity and Inverse to Write Equivalent Expressions 
Lesson 6: Collecting Rational Number Like Terms 
Topic B Solve Problems Using Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities 
Lesson 7: Understanding EquationsUnit 6Lesson 2: Smudged ReceiptsLesson 5: Balancing MovesLesson 6: Balancing Equations
Lesson 8: Using If-Then Moves in Solving Equations
Lesson 9: Using If-Then Moves in Solving Equations		Unit 6Lesson 2: Smudged ReceiptsLesson 6: Balancing EquationsLesson 7: Keeping It True (Print available)Lesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)Lesson 9: Always-Equal MachinesLesson 10: Collect the Squares [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Equation Roundtable (Print available)Lesson 12: Community Day (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 10: Angle Problems and Solving EquationsUnit 7Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Angle DiagramsLesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 11: Angle Problems and Solving Equations 
Lesson 12: Properties of Inequalities
Lesson 13: Inequalities
Lesson 14: Solving Inequalities		Unit 6Lesson 14: Unbalanced HangersLesson 15: Budgeting (Print available)Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep [Free lesson]Lesson 17: Write Them and Solve Them (Print available)
Lesson 15: Graphing Solutions to InequalitiesUnit 6Lesson 13: I Saw the SignsPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic C Use Equations and Inequalities to Solve Geometry Problems 
Lesson 16: The Most Famous Ratio of AllUnit 3Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?Lesson 3: Measuring Around [Free lesson]
Lesson 17: The Area of a CircleUnit 3Lesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)Lesson 7: Why Pi? (Print available)Lesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Circle vs. SquarePractice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 18: More Problems on Area and CircumferenceUnit 3Lesson 4: Perimeter ChallengesLesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)Lesson 7: Why Pi? (Print available)Lesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Lesson 19: Unknown Area Problems on the Coordinate Plane
Lesson 20: Composite Area Problems		Unit 3Lesson 4: Perimeter ChallengesPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 21: Surface Area
Lesson 22: Surface Area
Lesson 23: The Volume of a Right Prism
Lesson 24: The Volume of a Right Prism		Unit 7Lesson 10: Simple PrismsLesson 11: More Complicated Prisms Lesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print Available)Lesson 13: Popcorn PossibilitiesPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 25: Volume and Surface Area
Lesson 26: Volume and Surface Area		Unit 7Lesson 13: Popcorn PossibilitiesPractice Day 2

Module 4: Percent and Proportional Relationships

Topic A Finding the Whole 
Lesson 1: PercentUnit 4Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 2: Part of a Whole as a PercentUnit 4Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)
Lesson 3: Comparing Quantities with PercentUnit 4Lesson 1: Mosaics [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Peach Cobbler (Print available)Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 4: Percent Increase and DecreaseUnit 4Lesson 4: More and LessLesson 5: All the EquationsLesson 6: 100% (Print available)Lesson 7: Percent machines [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Lesson 5: Finding One Hundred Percent Given Another Percent 
Lesson 6: Fluency with PercentsUnit 4Lesson 7: Percent machines [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Topic B Percent Problems Including More Than One Whole 
Lesson 7: Markup and Markdown ProblemsUnit 4Lesson 7: Percent machines [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Percent Error Problems
Lesson 9: Problem Solving When the Percent Changes		Unit 4Lesson 4: More and LessLesson 5: All the EquationsLesson 6: 100% (Print available)Lesson 7: Percent machines [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Simple Interest 
Lesson 11: Tax, Commissions, Fees, and Other Real-World Percent ApplicationsUnit 4Lesson 8: Tax and TipLesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)Lesson 11: Bookcase BuilderLesson 12: Posing Percent Problems [Free lesson]Practice Day (Print available)
Topic C Scale Drawings 
Lesson 12: The Scale Factor as a Percent for a Scale Drawing 
Lesson 13: Changing ScalesUnit 1Lesson 1: Scaling Machines [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Scaling RobotsLesson 3: Make It ScaleLesson 4: Scale Factor ChallengesLesson 5: TilesLesson 6: Introducing ScaleLesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)Lesson 9: Scaling BuildingsLesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)Practice Day 2 (Print available) Unit 3Lesson 1 Toothpicks
Lesson 14: Computing Actual Lengths from a Scale DrawingUnit 1Lesson 6: Introducing ScaleLesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Scaling States (Print available)Lesson 9: Scaling BuildingsLesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available) Unit 3Lesson 1: Toothpicks
Lesson 15: Solving Area Problems Using Scale DrawingsUnit 1Lesson 5: Tiles
Topic D Population, Mixture, and Counting Problems Involving Percents 
Lesson 16: Population ProblemsUnit 8Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 17: Mixture Problems 
Lesson 18: Counting Problems 

Module 5: Statistics and Probability

Topic A Calculating and Interpreting Probabilities 
Lesson 1: Chance ExperimentsUnit 8Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 2: Estimating Probabilities by Collecting Data
Lesson 3: Chance Experiments with Equally Likely Outcomes
Lesson 4: Calculating Probabilities for Chance Experiments with Equally Likely Outcomes		Unit 8Lesson 3: Mystery BagLesson 4: Spin ClassLesson 5: Is It Fair?Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 5: Chance Experiments with Outcomes That Are Not Equally LikelyUnit 8Lesson 4: Spin ClassLesson 5: Is It Fair?Lesson 6: Fair GamesLesson 7: Weather or Not
Lesson 6: Using Tree Diagrams to Represent a Sample Space and to Calculate ProbabilitiesUnit 8Lesson 6: Fair GamesLesson 7: Weather or Not
Lesson 7: Calculating Probabilities of Compound EventsUnit 8Lesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Topic B Estimating Probabilities 
Lesson 8: The Difference Between Theoretical Probabilities and Estimated Probabilities
Lesson 9: Comparing Estimated Probabilities to Probabilities Predicted by a Model		Unit 8Lesson 6: Fair GamesLesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 10: Conducting a Simulation to Estimate the Probability of an EventUnit 8Lesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Conducting a Simulation to Estimate the Probability of an Event
Lesson 12: Applying Probability to Make Informed Decisions		Unit 8Lesson 7: Weather or NotLesson 8: Simulate It! (Print available)
Topic C Random Sampling and Estimating Population Characteristics 
Lesson 13: Populations, Samples, and Generalizing from a Sample to a PopulationUnit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 11: HeadlinesLesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 14: Selecting a Sample
Lesson 15: Random Sampling
Lesson 16: Methods for Selecting a Random Sample		Unit 8Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 17: Sampling VariabilityUnit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 13: Plots and Samples
Lesson 18: Sampling Variability and the Effect of Sample Size
Lesson 19: Understanding Variability When Estimating a Population Proportion		Unit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 13: Plots and SamplesLesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)
Lesson 20: Estimating a Population Proportion 
Topic D Comparing Populations 
Lesson 21: Why Worry About Sampling Variability?Unit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 13: Plots and SamplesLesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)
Lesson 22: Using Sample Data to Compare the Means of Two or More Populations
Lesson 23: Using Sample Data to Compare the Means of Two or More Populations		Unit 8Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train? (Print available)Lesson 10: Crab Island [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Plots and SamplesLesson 14: School Newspaper (Print available)Lesson 15: Asthma Rates (Print available)

Module 6: Geometry

Topic A Unknown Angles 
Lesson 1: Complementary and Supplementary AnglesUnit 7Lesson 2: Friendly Angles [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 2: Solving for Unknown Angles Using Equations
Lesson 3: Solving for Unknown Angles Using Equations
Lesson 4: Solving for Unknown Angles Using Equations		Unit 7Lesson 1: PinwheelsLesson 2: Friendly AnglesLesson 3: Angle DiagramsLesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Topic B Constructing Triangles 
Lesson 5: Identical TrianglesUnit 7Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than One
Lesson 6: Drawing Geometric ShapesUnit 7Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than OneLesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Lesson 7: Drawing Parallelograms 
Lesson 8: Drawing TrianglesUnit 7Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than OneLesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 9: Conditions for a Unique Triangle―Three Sides and Two Sides and the Included
Lesson 10: Conditions for a Unique Triangle—Two Angles and a Given Side Angle		Unit 7Lesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Conditions on Measurements That Determine a TriangleUnit 7Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than OneLesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Unique Triangles―Two Sides and a Non-Included Angle 
Lesson 13: Checking for Identical Triangles
Lesson 14: Checking for Identical Triangles		Unit 7Lesson 6: Is It Enough?Lesson 7: More Than OnePractice Day 1
Lesson 15: Using Unique Triangles to Solve Real-World and Mathematical Problems 
Topic C Slicing Solids 
Lesson 16: Slicing a Right Rectangular Prism with a Plane
Lesson 17: Slicing a Right Rectangular Pyramid with a Plane
Lesson 18: Slicing on an Angle		Unit 7Lesson 9: Slicing Solids
Lesson 19: Understanding Three-Dimensional Figures 
Topic D Problems Involving Area and Surface Area 
Lesson 20: Real-World Area ProblemsUnit 3Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 21: Mathematical Area ProblemsUnit 3Lesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 22: Area Problems with Circular RegionsUnit 3Lesson 5: Area StrategiesLesson 8: Area Challenges [Free lesson]
Lesson 23: Surface Area
Lesson 24: Surface Area		Unit 7Lesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print available)Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Topic E Problems Involving Volume 
Lesson 25: Volume of Right PrismsUnit 7Lesson 10: Simple PrismsLesson 11: More Complicated PrismsLesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 26: Volume of Composite Three-Dimensional ObjectsUnit 7Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 27: Real-World Volume ProblemsUnit 7Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities

Grade 8

Module 1: Integer Exponents and Scientific Notation

Eureka MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Topic A Exponential Notation and Properties of Integer Exponents 
Lesson 1: Exponential NotationUnit 7 Lesson 1 Circles [Free lesson]Lesson 2 Combining Exponents
Lesson 2: Multiplication of Numbers in Exponential Form
Lesson 3: Numbers in Exponential Form Raised to a Power		Unit 7 Lesson 2 Combining ExponentsLesson 3 Power Pairs (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 4 Rewriting Powers
Lesson 4: Numbers Raised to the Zeroth Power
Lesson 5: Negative Exponents and the Laws of Exponents		Unit 7 Lesson 5 Zero and Negative ExponentsLesson 6 Write a Rule (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 6: Proofs of Laws of Exponents 
Topic B Magnitude and Scientific Notation 
Lesson 7: MagnitudeUnit 7 Lesson 7 Scales and Weights
Lesson 8: Estimating QuantitiesUnit 7 Lesson 7: Scales and WeightsLesson 8: Point ZapperLesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 9: Scientific Notation
Lesson 10: Operations with Numbers in Scientific Notation		Unit 7 Lesson 10: Solar System [Free lesson]Lesson 11: Balance the Scales [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 11: Efficacy of Scientific NotationUnit 7 Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 12: Choice of Unit 
Lesson 13: Comparison of Numbers Written in Scientific Notation and Interpreting Scientific Notation Using TechnologyUnit 7  Lesson 13: Star Power Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 2: The Concept of Congruence

Topic A Definitions and Properties of the Basic Rigid Motions 
Lesson 1: Why Move Things Around?
Lesson 2: Definition of Translation and Three Basic Properties		Unit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Translating LinesUnit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson] Unit 3Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 4: Definition of Reflection and Basic Properties
Lesson 5: Definition of Rotation and Basic Properties
Lesson 6: Rotations of 180 Degrees		Unit 1Lesson 1: Transformers [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding [Free lesson]Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Topic B Sequencing the Basic Rigid Motions 
Lesson 7: Sequencing Translations
Lesson 8: Sequencing Reflections and Translations		Unit 1Lesson 3: Transformation GolfLesson 6: Connecting the Dots [Free lesson]
Lesson 9: Sequencing Rotations
Lesson 10: Sequences of Rigid Motions		Unit 1Lesson 3: Transformation GolfLesson 6: Connecting the Dots [Free lesson]Lesson 13: Tessellate [Free lesson]Practice Day
Topic C Congruence and Angle Relationships 
Lesson 11: Definition of Congruence and Some Basic PropertiesUnit 1 Lesson 7: Are They the Same?Lesson 8: No Bending, No StretchingLesson 9: Are They Congruent?Practice Day
Lesson 12: Angles Associated with Parallel LinesUnit 1 Lesson 10: Transforming Angles  
Lesson 13: Angle Sum of a TriangleUnit 1 Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 14: More on the Angles of a TriangleUnit 1 Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)Lesson 12: Puzzling It Out [Free lesson]
Topic D: The Pythagorean Theorem 
Lesson 15: Informal Proof of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 16: Applications of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8Lesson 10: Taco TruckPractice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 3: Similarity

Topic A Dilation 
Lesson 1: What Lies Behind “Same Shape”?Unit 2Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Properties of Dilations
Lesson 3: Examples of Dilations		Unit 2Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf [Free lesson]Lesson 3: Match My DilationLesson 4: Dilations on a Plane (Print available)
Lesson 4: Fundamental Theorem of Similarity
Lesson 5: First Consequences of FTS		Unit 2Lesson 5: Transformations Golf with DilationsLesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Dilations on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 8Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane (Print available)
Lesson 7: Informal Proofs of Properties of Dilations 
Topic B Similar Figures 
Lesson 8: Similarity
Lesson 9: Basic Properties of Similarity		Unit 2Lesson 5: Transformations Golf with DilationsLesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 10: Informal Proof of AA Criterion for SimilarityUnit 2Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?
Lesson 11: More About Similar TrianglesUnit 2Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?Lesson 8: Shadows
Lesson 12: Modeling Using SimilarityUnit 2Lesson 8: ShadowsLesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a PlanePractice Day 
Topic C The Pythagorean Theorem 
Lesson 13: Proof of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8Lesson 6: The Pythagorean TheoremLesson 7: Pictures to Prove ItLesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle [Free lesson]
Lesson 14: The Converse of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8 Lesson 9: Make It Right

Module 4: Linear Equations

Topic A Writing and Solving Linear Equations 
Lesson 1: Writing Equations Using Symbols 
Lesson 2: Linear and Nonlinear Expressions in x 
Lesson 3: Linear Equations in xUnit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 4: Solving a Linear EquationUnit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 5: Writing and Solving Linear EquationsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials Unit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 6: Solutions of a Linear EquationUnit 3Lesson 10: Solutions Unit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: Classification of SolutionsUnit 4Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?
Lesson 8: Linear Equations in Disguise 
Lesson 9: An Application of Linear Equations 
Topic B Linear Equations in Two Variables and Their GraphsUnit 3Lesson 2: Water TankLesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 10: A Critical Look at Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Water TankLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 8: Landing PlanesLesson 9: Coin Capture
Lesson 11: Constant RateUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a PlanePractice Day  Unit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations Unit 4Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Lesson 12: Linear Equations in Two VariablesUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 6: Translations Unit 4Lesson 3: Balanced MovesLesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 13: The Graph of a Linear Equation in Two VariablesUnit 3 Lesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: TranslationsLesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 10: SolutionsLesson 11: Pennies and Quarters
Lesson 14: The Graph of a Linear Equation―Horizontal and Vertical LinesUnit 3 Lesson 9: Coin CapturePractice Day  [Free lesson]
Topic C Slope and Equations of Lines 
Lesson 15: The Slope of a Non-Vertical LineUnit 3Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: TranslationsLesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 16: The Computation of the Slope of a Non-Vertical LineUnit 3Lesson 7: Water CoolerLesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 17: The Line Joining Two Distinct Points of the Graph 𝑦 = 𝑚x + 𝑏 Has Slope mUnit 3Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 18: There Is Only One Line Passing Through a Given Point with a Given SlopeUnit 3Lesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 19: The Graph of a Linear Equation in Two Variables Is a LineUnit 3Lesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 20: Every Line Is a Graph of a Linear EquationUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 21: Some Facts About Graphs of Linear Equations in Two VariablesUnit 3Lesson 3: PostersLesson 6: TranslationsPractice Day 
Lesson 22: Constant Rates RevisitedUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a Plane Unit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Water TankLesson 3: Posters
Lesson 23: The Defining Equation of a LineUnit 3Lesson 10: SolutionsLesson 11: Pennies and Quarters
Topic D Systems of Linear Equations and Their Solutions 
Lesson 24: Introduction to Simultaneous EquationsUnit 4Lesson 7: All, Some, or None?Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 25: Geometric Interpretation of the Solutions of a Linear SystemUnit 4  Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?Lesson 10: On Both LinesLesson 11: Make Them Balance [Free lesson]Lesson 12: Line Zapper [Free lesson]Lesson 13: All, Some, or None? Part 2Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 26: Characterization of Parallel LinesUnit 3 Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 27: Nature of Solutions of a System of Linear EquationsUnit 4  Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?
Lesson 28: Another Computational Method of Solving a Linear System 
Lesson 29: Word Problems 
Lesson 30: Conversion Between Celsius and Fahrenheit 
Topic E Pythagorean Theorem 
Lesson 31: System of Equations Leading to Pythagorean Triples 

Module 5: Examples of Functions from Geometry

Topic A Functions 
Lesson 1: The Concept of a FunctionUnit 5 Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Guess My Rule [Free lesson]
Lesson 2: Formal Definition of a FunctionUnit 5 Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Guess My Rule [Free lesson] Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 3: Linear Functions and ProportionalityUnit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson] Unit 5Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 4: More Examples of FunctionsUnit 5Lesson 3: Function or Not?Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 5: Graphs of Functions and EquationsUnit 5Lesson 4: Window FramesLesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6: Graphs of Linear Functions and Rate of ChangeUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a Plane Unit 3Lesson 4: Stacking CupsLesson 5: Flags [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 7: Comparing Linear Functions and GraphsUnit 5Lesson 3: PostersLesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Graphs of Simple Nonlinear Functions 
Topic B Volume 
Lesson 9: Examples of Functions from GeometryUnit 8Lesson 1: Tilted SquaresLesson 2: From Squares to Roots
Lesson 10: Volumes of Familiar Solids—Cones and CylindersUnit 5Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 11: Cylinders [Free lesson]Lesson 12: Scaling CylindersLesson 13: Cones [Free lesson]Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 11: Volume of a SphereUnit 5 Lesson 15: Spheres Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Module 6: Linear Functions

Topic A Linear Functions 
Lesson 1: Modeling Linear RelationshipsUnit 5 Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 2: Interpreting Rate of Change and Initial ValueUnit 2Lesson 9: Water SlideLesson 10: Points on a Plane Unit 3Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials [Free lesson]Lesson 2: Water TankLesson 3: PostersLesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 3: Representations of a LineUnit 5Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesLesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available) [Free lesson]Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 4: Increasing and Decreasing Functions
Lesson 5: Increasing and Decreasing Functions		Unit 5Lesson 1: Turtle Crossing [Free lesson]Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Topic B Bivariate Numerical Data 
Lesson 6: Scatter Plots
Lesson 7: Patterns in Scatter Plots		Unit 6 Lesson 1: Click BattleLesson 2: Wing SpanLesson 3: Robots [Free lesson]Practice Day 1 (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 8: Informally Fitting a LineUnit 6 Lesson 4: Dapper Cats [Free lesson]Lesson 5: Fit Fights [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Interpreting SlopesLesson 7: Scatter Plot CityLesson 8: Animal BrainsPractice Day 1 (Print available) [Free lesson]Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 9: Determining the Equation of a Line Fit to Data 
Topic C Linear and Nonlinear Models 
Lesson 10: Linear Models
Lesson 11: Using Linear Models in a Data Context		Unit 5 Lesson 4: Window FramesLesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare [Free lesson]Lesson 6: Graphing StoriesUnit 6 Lesson 6: Interpreting SlopesLesson 8: Animal BrainsPractice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Nonlinear Models in a Data Context 
Topic D Bivariate Categorical Data 
Lesson 13: Summarizing Bivariate Categorical Data in a Two-Way TableUnit 6 Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Lesson 14: Association Between Categorical VariablesUnit 6 Lesson 10: Finding Associations [Free lesson] Lesson 11: Federal Budgets Practice Day 3

Module 7: Introduction to Irrational Numbers Using Geometry

Topic A Square and Cube Roots 
Lesson 1: The Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 6: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 2: Square RootsUnit 8
Lesson 2: From Squares to Roots
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Root Down [Free lesson]
Lesson 3: Existence and Uniqueness of Square Roots and Cube RootsUnit 8
Lesson 5: Filling Cubes
Lesson 4: Simplifying Square RootsUnit 8
Lesson 2: From Squares to Roots
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Root Down [Free lesson]
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 5: Solving Equations with Radicals 
Topic B Decimal Expansions of Numbers 
Lesson 6: Finite and Infinite Decimals
Lesson 7: Infinite Decimals
Lesson 8: The Long Division Algorithm
Lesson 9: Decimal Expansions of Fractions, Part 1
Lesson 10: Converting Repeating Decimals to Fractions		Unit 8
Lesson 12: Fractions to Decimals
Lesson 13: Decimals to Fractions
Lesson 11: The Decimal Expansion of Some Irrational Numbers 
Lesson 12: Decimal Expansions of Fractions, Part 2 
Lesson 13: Comparing Irrational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 14: Hit the Target
Lesson 14: Decimal Expansion of π 
Topic C The Pythagorean Theorem 
Lesson 15: Pythagorean Theorem, RevisitedUnit 8
Lesson 6: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 16: Converse of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 9: Make It Right
Lesson 17: Distance on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 18: Applications of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 10: Taco Truck [Free lesson]
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Topic D Applications of Radicals and Roots 
Lesson 19: Cones and Spheres 
Lesson 20: Truncated Cones 
Lesson 21: Volume of Composite Solids 
Lesson 22: Average Rate of Change 
Lesson 23: Nonlinear Motion 

Getting started with Amplify Science California

Dear Elk Grove K–5 teachers,

Welcome to the Amplify Science California family! Below you’ll find everything you need to successfully kick off your science instruction this year.

– Your California team

Amplify Science - Student reading a book remote & hybrid

Program introduction

Onboarding videos

To start using Amplify Science California quickly in your classroom, check out the following onboarding videos. They cover what you need to know to get started fast, from unpacking materials to quickly start using Amplify Science in your classroom and navigating the digital Teacher’s Reference Guide.

Program pacing

Hands-on materials kit

The following videos give you a quick look into our Amplify Science California classroom kits. For each grade level, you’ll find a “How to unpack your kit” video for the first unit of the program.

Teacher digital resources

Watch this video to understand the basic organization of the digital teacher experience and how to navigate the platform.

Want some practice? Download this exploration guide to practice toggling between teacher view, presentation view, and student view.

Our new digital experience also makes it easy to assign work through our LMS integrations.

Our new digital experience also makes it easy to view student work in real time.

Student digital resources

Watch this video to take a peek at the various student digital resources available to your class.

Use this Student Login Click Path document to support students and families logging in from home.

Essential resources

Your Teacher’s Reference Guide is a tremendously rich resource. It’s also packed! That’s why teachers getting started with Amplify Science love our condensed Unit Guides, lesson planners, and device calendars.

Unit Guides

These short and sweet guides provide a big picture overview of each unit’s phenomenon and storyline, the key questions that guide learning, and how the storyline develops from chapter to chapter. We even spoil the big reveal at the end by pointing out ahead of time what students figure out throughout the unit.

A laptop displays an educational website titled "The Earth System" with lesson modules; a printed Teacher’s Guide with a similar cover design is shown beside it.

Kindergarten

Grade 1

Grade 2

Grade 3

Grade 4

Grade 5

Lesson planners

Our lesson planners give you easy access to direct links to key resources within the program.

Kindergarten

Grade 1

Grade 2

Grade 3

Grade 4

Grade 5

Teacher-provided materials

Your Amplify Science classroom kit includes a wide variety of consumable and non-consumable items. In fact, each kit contains enough non-consumables to support a class of 36 students working in small groups, and enough consumables to support 72 student uses.

In addition to these provided items, there are some teacher-provided items required in each unit. For a consolidated list of teacher-provided items per unit, download the appropriate PDF below.

Device calendars

Our at-a-glance device calendars make device management and sharing between grade-level colleagues a breeze. With one calendar per unit (beginning in grade 2), you can easily see which lessons utilize devices.

Approach to assessment

The Amplify Science California assessment system is grounded in the principle that students benefit from regular and varied opportunities to demonstrate understanding through performance. In practice this means that conceptual understanding is revealed through engagement in the science and engineering practices.

Assessment types at a glance

In your classroom, you’ll be utilizing a variety of formative (F) and summative (S) assessments:

  • End-of-Unit Assessment (S): Assessments toward the end of each unit feature a combination of targeted discussions, student-generated models, and written explanations to gauge students’ knowledge and growth.
  • Pre-Unit Assessments (F): Discussion, modeling, and written explanations to gauge students’ knowledge.
  • On-the-Fly Assessments (OtFA) (F): Multi-dimensional tasks integrated regularly throughout the lessons. OtFA opportunities were designed to help teachers make sense of student activity during a learning experience (e.g., student-to-student talk, writing, and model construction) and to provide evidence of how a student is coming to understand core concepts and developing dexterity with SEPs and CCCs. Three-dimensional assessment opportunities make measuring progress toward NGSS learning goals possible.
  • Self-assessments (F): One per chapter; brief opportunities for students to reflect on their own learning, ask questions, and reveal ongoing wonderings about unit content.
  • Critical Juncture Assessments (F): Variety of multidimensional performance tasks intended to assess student progress, occurring at the end of each chapter. Examples include writing scientific explanations, engaging in argumentation, developing and using models, and designing engineering solutions. Based on student performance on the assessment, teachers have access to recommendations for targeted student interventions, suggested follow-ups, or differentiating classroom instruction.
  • End-of-Unit Assessment (S): Assessments toward the end of each unit feature a combination of targeted discussions, student-generated models, and written explanations to gauge students’ knowledge and growth.

Pre-Unit Assessments

Most Pre-Unit assessments are embedded within an activity of the first lesson of a unit. In kindergarten and grade 1, the Pre-Unit assessment (as well as the End-of-Unit assessment) is oral. In grades 2–5 they are typically written. Refer to the Digital Resources area of the Lesson Brief for materials needed for the assessment activity, such as the Clipboard Assessment Tool (K–1 only), copymasters (grades 2–5 only), and an Assessment Guide that will help you interpret and leverage students’ responses.

If you and your students have Interactive Classroom licenses, students can complete their assessment digitally instead of using the copymaster.

When students complete the assessment pages digitally, you’ll be able to review their work on the View Work page.

Critical Juncture Assessments

Critical Juncture assessments typically occur towards the end of each chapter. The Materials and Preparation section will indicate when there is a Critical Juncture to prepare for, but you can also tell when an activity is designed to be a Critical Juncture assessment by the hummingbird icon that will appear within it. Selecting the hummingbird icon will tell you how to assess students’ understanding with the activity, and how to tailor instruction based on what you find. If you need guidance on the “answers” to the assessment activity, refer to the “Possible Responses” tab.

If you are using Classroom Slides or Interactive Classroom, you’ll see a hummingbird or “Critical Juncture” label in the bottom right corner of one of the slides of the activity.

The notes about assessing understanding and tailoring instruction are located in the notes of that slide (on the right-hand side of the Teacher’s Guide tab in the Interactive Classroom experience; underneath the slide in Classroom Slides).

End-of-Unit Assessments

End-of-Unit assessments are typically the last lesson of a unit. In some units, these are two-part assessments that take place over two lessons. The easiest way to find the End-of-Unit assessment is to skim through the lesson titles. Lessons containing End-of-Unit assessments will always have that noted in the title.

Like the Pre-unit assessment, you can find materials for the End-of-unit assessments in the Digital Resources area of the Lesson Brief.

On-the-Fly Assessments

These embedded assessments leverage the formative opportunities in the learning experience students are already engaged in, such as creating models, analyzing data, actively reading, conducting investigations, and more. Refer to the Critical Juncture section above for guidance on finding information about using them.

Unit-level assessment information

You can find overall information about an individual unit’s assessments in the “Assessment System” resource, which is located within the Teacher References section on the Unit Overview page.

The Assessment System resource contains a comprehensive list of all of the assessment opportunities in the unit, including the assessment’s location, a brief indication of what students are doing in that particular activity, what type of assessment it is, which Disciplinary Core Ideas, science and engineering practices, and cross-cutting concepts it specifically addresses, and the kind of evaluation guidance you can expect for it. If you are in a kindergarten or first grade unit, you will also find information on the Clipboard Assessment Tool (used for supporting oral assessment) in this section.

If you’re interested in focusing on information related to the unit’s Critical Juncture and On-the-Fly assessments in particular, check out the “Embedded Formative Assessments” resource, also located within the Teacher References section on the Unit Overview page.

Three-dimensional assessment connections

All assessment opportunities within Amplify Science California include clear labeling around the Disciplinary Core Ideas (DCIs), Crosscutting Concepts (CCCs), and Science and Engineering Practices (SEPs) to help teachers connect formative and summative assessments to specific NGSS dimensions.

Coming soon

Unlike other publishers, we don’t make you wait until your next adoption to get the latest and greatest from Amplify. We’re always launching new and exciting features. In fact, on this page is a list of new features you can look forward to using during the 2023-2024 school year.

FAQs

Program questions

Amplify Science California is a flexible, blended K–8 science curriculum that addresses 100 percent of the Next Generation Science Standards for California and a significant number of the California English Language Development Standards and Common Core State Standards for English Language Arts, Literacy in Science and Technical Subjects, and Math. Together, the units deliver three-dimensional instruction across the following disciplines: Life Science, Earth and Space Science, Physical Science, and Engineering Design.

Amplify Science California does indeed feature some powerful and engaging digital components, which are gradually introduced beginning at grade 2. However, as a fully blended and flexible program, Amplify Science California can be (and has been) implemented in a wide variety of scenarios.

All lessons were designed with device sharing in mind, and never assume that every student has a separate device. While 1:1 scenarios are great, they aren’t required. When devices are necessary for students to fully experience a concept, teachers can opt to share devices across pairs or small groups, or simply display the Sim or Modeling Tool to the whole class and allow students to “drive” using your device.

Rather than introducing a concept on Monday, testing for mastery on Friday, and knowing students will forget everything by the next Tuesday, we set out to help students build meaningful and lasting knowledge that they can retain and transfer over the course of the entire unit. We accomplish this by giving students multiple opportunities (a.k.a. “at-bats”) to encounter, explore, and experience a concept. Said another way, Amplify Science California is actually made up of a series of multi-modal “mini-lessons.” This intentional, cyclical, and iterative design mirrors the 5Es, allows teachers the flexibility to speed up or skip ahead once students have demonstrated mastery, and empowers students to learn concepts more deeply than any other program.

Yes. Rather than separating performance expectations into physical science units, earth and space science units, and life science units, Amplify Science California units are organized around anchoring phenomena designed to give students opportunities to dive deeply into certain Disciplinary Core Ideas (DCIs) while also drawing from or applying to others. In organizing the Amplify Science California middle school units, we’ve carefully sequenced these ideas within each grade level to support the development of deep and coherent understanding.

Many real-world phenomena cross the domain boundaries of life, physical, or earth and space science (as well as engineering). Each Amplify Science California unit begins with an intriguing real-world phenomenon that poses a problem that needs to be understood and/or solved. By the end of the unit, students will have analyzed the anchor phenomenon across multiple scientific domains, possibly designed and tested an engineering solution, and applied what they’ve learned in a different context.

For example:
In the Light Waves unit, students investigate the anchoring phenomenon of why Australia has a much higher skin cancer rate than countries at similar latitudes like Brazil. The focus of this unit is on Disciplinary Core Ideas related to wave properties (PS4.A) and electromagnetic radiation (PS4.B). Students explore these physical science ideas deeply within the unit, and also draw on ideas from earth science (e.g., latitudinal variation of the sun’s energy) and life science (e.g., the effect of energy on the DNA in the nucleus of a cell) in order to explain the central phenomenon.

Absolutely. Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science California. Integrated into every unit are opportunities for students to take on the role of scientists and engineers as they gather evidence, think critically, solve problems, and develop and defend their claims.

In addition, our unique combination of focus and flex activities means teachers have more options, opportunities, and materials to make learning active. Each hands-on activity provides clear instructions for the teacher, with more complex activities supported by video demonstrations and illustrations.

What’s important to remember is that more hands-on doesn’t necessarily mean better, at least according to the California NGSS. That’s because only two of the eight Science and Engineering Practices (SEPs) are directly related to hands-on learning.

Just as scientists gather evidence from many types of sources, students in the Amplify Science California program gather evidence not just by making physical models, but also by making and interpreting digital models; reading texts; watching videos; and analyzing photographs, maps, and data sets. By doing do, students are provided with more opportunities than any other program to use all of the practices called out in the California NGSS Framework:

  • Asking questions
  • Developing and using models
  • Planning and carrying out investigations
  • Analyzing and interpreting data
  • Using mathematics and computational thinking
  • Constructing explanations
  • Engaging in arguments from evidence
  • Obtaining, evaluating, and communicating information

While all of our units engage students in gathering evidence from a rich collection of sources, the reliance on different types of evidence (and evidence sources) varies according to unit. For instance, some units lend themselves to meaningful hands-on experiences, while in other units the phenomena students are investigating are too slow, too dangerous, or too big to be observed directly. In those units, students rely more heavily on other evidence sources such a physical models or simulations.

Unit types in grades K–5

In each K–5 grade, there is one unit that emphasizes investigation, one that emphasizes modeling, and one that emphasizes design. In addition, in grades 3–5, there is also one unit that emphasizes argumentation.

Unit types in grades 6–8

Each 6–8 grade features three types of units: Launch, Core, and Engineering Internships. Each year has one Launch unit, six Core units, and two Engineering Internships.

For teachers who want to supplement the lessons with even more hands-on activities, optional “flextension” activities are included in many units.

Yes indeed. Amplify Science California integrates all four STEM disciplines—science, technology, engineering, and math, in addition to English Language Arts—throughout the curriculum. In addition, each grade level features specific units that emphasize engineering design.

Yes, the program includes multiple opportunities for summative assessments.

End-of-unit assessments: At grades K–1 these look like targeted conversations, at grades 2–5 we incorporate written responses, and at grades 6–8 we assess through a combination of auto-scored multiple-choice questions and rubric-scored written responses. These summative assessments for each unit are designed to provide valid, reliable, and fair measures of students’ progress and attainment of three-dimensional learning.

Benchmark assessments: Delivered four times per year in grades 3–5 and three times per year in grades 6–8, benchmark assessments report on students’ facilities with each of the grade appropriate DCIs, SEPs, CCCs, and performance expectations of the California NGSS.

Science Seminars and final written arguments (formative and summative components): In grades 6–8, culminating performance tasks for each core unit invite students to figure out a new real-world problem. They collect and analyze evidence, examine a number of claims, and then engage in a full-class discussion where they must state which claims are best supported by the evidence, all while making clear their reasoning that connects the evidence to the claims. After the seminar, students then individually write their final scientific argument, drawing on the DCIs, SEPs, and CCCs they have used over the course of the unit to develop a sophisticated and convincing argument that addresses the problem they’ve been investigating. Rubrics, scoring guides, and examples of student responses at each scoring level are provided to teachers to support the assessment of students’ understanding of concepts and specific practices.

Amplify Science California provides more than enough instructional content to fill 180 days of instruction. However, unlike other programs that expect you to complete 180 discrete lessons, Amplify Science California includes built-in wiggle room.

For example, the typical elementary classroom delivers science instruction only two times per week. Rather than asking teachers to wade through unnecessary content, we designed our program to address 100 percent of the California NGSS in just 66 days at grades K–2 and 88 days at grades 3–5. When it comes to middle school, we address 100 percent of the California NGSS in 146 lessons.

Some classes might last longer than one session due to a number of reasons (e.g., enthusiastic student conversations, challenging topics requiring deeper dives, more time needed to accommodate diverse learners, etc.). Also, teachers might want to supplement Amplify Science California with some of their own favorite lessons. Lastly, we’ve accounted for the inevitable assembly days, class trips, testing schedules, etc. For teachers that want to go deeper or expand upon a unit topic, we also offer a number of additional lessons that are not core to each unit.

Amplify Science California lessons are designed to be completed in the following time frames:
Lessons in grades K–1 are designed for 45 minutes of science instruction.
Lessons in grades 2–5 are designed for 60 minutes of science instruction.

That said, it’s not a problem if you can’t allocate 45 minutes of science instruction every day at K–1, or 60 minutes per day at 2–5. Since there are a total of 66 lessons to address 100 percent of California NGSS at grades K–2, and 88 lessons to address 100 percent of California NGSS at grades 3–5, you can easily teach the lessons in smaller blocks and cover all of the content over the course of the school year.

Each lesson of every Amplify Science California unit includes point-of-use differentiation strategies and embedded teacher and student supports for diverse learners, including English learners, students who need more support, and students who are ready for more challenge. These strategies and methods ensure that all students have access to the same content as their peers.

Two notable categories of suggested modifications are:

  • English-learner-specific strategies such as English/Spanish glossaries, native language supports, and provision of cognates and other content-specific language scaffolds are provided in each unit.
  • Relatively small alterations and additional scaffolds that provide students with greater access to the content.
    These types of scaffolds benefit all learners and include suggestions such as providing graphic organizers, practice with multiple-meaning words, etc.

With Amplify Science California, the use of technology is always purposeful.

For example:

  • The curriculum has a strong emphasis on literacy, with students reading and analyzing informational texts, and writing scientific explanations and arguments.
  • Digital elements are gradually introduced to students in grades 2–3, with the greatest use of digital elements taking place in grades 4–5, as the phenomena at these grades become more challenging to observe directly.
  • The curriculum’s readers and interactive notebook pages are available in both print and digital across all K–5 units.

This curriculum addresses a significant number of the standards as they pertain to science. Throughout each unit, students read science texts, engage in science talk and argumentation, and write evidence-based science explanations. The curriculum supports vocabulary, language, and reading comprehension development. Students also use measurement tools with precision, record and analyze data, make sense of scientific phenomena, and develop solutions to problems experienced in the real world.

Digital questions

Teacher Support notes including sample teacher talk, student responses, pedagogical support, and possible student responses are provided within your student-facing slides. Simply click “Teach” and reference your private Teacher Guide tab. Students will only see the lesson slides that you are presenting.

You, the teacher, must “Start class” to launch the presentation tab. (Remember, without the presentation tab, students would be able to see your teacher notes.)

Clicking “Starting class” also brings students to the correct slide, which is particularly important for young students who are learning to navigate.

Teachers can either press the “End class” button in the bottom right corner of the slide navigation, or they can simply close the presentation tab.

Clicking “End class” also enables students to navigate through the lesson on their own. That means they’ll be able to return to slides and books to review content, to the Sims and Modeling Tools to replay them, or to notebook pages to update their work.

You can click on the “Student preview” option in the bottom right corner (within the menu that opens when you click the three dots) to open a new browser tab where you can preview the student view using your teacher account.

Any work you complete in this student preview (or elsewhere in the teacher experience) will be automatically saved to your account.

Looking for help?

For login or technology issues, please submit an EGUSD Heat ticket. For curriculum and pedagogical questions, please refer to the support resources below.

Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support

Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We’ve developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:

  • Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans.
  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs.
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.

To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com

Timely technical and program support

Our technical and program support is included and available from 4 a.m. to 4 p.m. PT, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.

For your most urgent questions:

  • Use our live chat within your program.
  • Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969.

For less urgent questions:

Email support

Connect with other teachers

Our Amplify Science Facebook group is a community of Amplify Science educators from across the country. It’s a space to share best practices, ideas, and support on everything from implementation to instruction. Join today.

Administrators, welcome to Amplify Science!

Here you’ll find information about enrollment and licensing, technical requirements, professional learning resources, and more.

Onboarding: What to expect

Welcome to Amplify Science! There are six basic steps to onboarding. Use this visual as a reference, but also know that our dedicated implementation team will be there to support you during the entire process.

Technology requirements and guidelines

To ensure that your hardware and network meet the minimum technical requirements for performance and support of your curriculum products, please see Amplify’s customer requirements page.

You’ll also want to add the URLs on this page to the corresponding district- or school-level filters so that your teachers and students can access their Amplify Science materials.

Data sharing agreement

Partnering with Amplify through our data sharing program deepens learning outcomes and gives you the performance analysis you need to make impactful decisions within your district or school. By signing our data sharing agreement, your district will help us to better understand student performance as it relates to your state’s standards. It also allows us to compare results with the curriculum-embedded assessments and state-level assessments. These analyses will help you identify the areas where your teachers and students are excelling or may be experiencing challenges.

Stay tuned for additional updates.

Enrollment and licensing overview

During the enrollment and licensing call, your Amplify implementation partner will walk you through the enrollment process. We recommend exploring the enrollment web tool ahead of the call for suggestions on which enrollment method may be best for your district.

The following guides provide additional information about enrollment methods and the data sharing process.

Preparing for your materials

Each unit of Amplify Science comes with a hands-on materials kit.

Each hands-on materials kit arrives in 1–3 boxes and contains the following:

  • Consumable materials
  • Nonconsumable materials
  • Classroom wall materials
  • Premium print materials (cards, maps, etc.)
  • 18 copies of each Student Book (K–5)
  • A blackline master copy of the Student Investigation Notebook (K–5)

You can find complete materials lists for each unit in the following PDFs. This information is also available in the digital Teacher’s Guide within the program.

Once your district’s purchase order has been sent to Amplify and is processed, Amplify will provide tracking information on your materials kits and any additional print materials you’ve ordered.

Administrator Reports

Self-service Administrator Reports allow insight into teacher and student usage and student performance data for the current school year.

Access is limited to district and school administrators. Administrators can directly access these reports at my.amplify.com/admin-reports.

Get more information.

Announcements

Summer extension
With summer fast approaching, we recognize that some districts may be extending the school year and/or continuing the use of Amplify curriculum and programs for summer instruction. If your summer instruction will continue past June 30 and/or you need to make rostering or enrollment changes, follow our guidance on extending your rollover date.

Use stimulus funding to drive transformation
Learn about ESSER I, II, and III funding (or CARES, CRRSA, and ARP) and how to use these funds to help with learning recovery and acceleration. Districts have significant flexibility in how to use the ESSER money, with ESSER II and III specifying that some of the funds should be used to address unfinished learning. All Amplify programs and services meet the criteria for the funding. Get more information about funding and guidelines.

Next steps: How do I support my teachers?

Pre-launch checklist for teachers
Please share our Program Hub with your educators. It will provide helpful information as they prepare to implement Amplify in their classrooms, including a pre-launch checklist. Note that they’ll need to be logged into Amplify Science to access the Hub. If they don’t have a login yet, you can also download and share the  Amplify Science pre-launch checklist for teachers PDF.

Professional learning
We partner with every district to make sure the Amplify Science rollout meets their unique needs. Check out these sample agendas to get a better understanding of what our team has to offer.

Advice and answers
The Science help website is filled with step-by-step resources to address educators’ questions. Encourage your educators to read through these tutorials and search for topics they want to learn more about.

Contact us

Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support
Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We’ve developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support at no cost to educators using our programs. This free service includes:

  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials.
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify Science.
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more.

To reach our pedagogical team, click the orange icon while logged into the curriculum to get immediate help, call (866) 629-2446, or email edsupport@amplify.com.

Timely technical and program support
Our Customer Care and Support team is available Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. ET, and Sunday, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. ET, through a variety of channels:

  • Live chat: Click the orange icon while logged into the curriculum to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.
  • Phone: Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969.
  • Email: Send an email to help@amplify.com.

Join our community
Our Amplify Science Facebook group is a community of Amplify Science educators from across the country. It’s a space to share best practices, ideas, and support on everything from implementation to instruction. Join today.

Integrating AI in the science classroom

image of Science Connections podcast and host Eric Cross

How can you create new science lesson plans, adjust assessments, and design labs using only objects kids have at home?

Just ask—ChatGPT, that is.

In this recent Science Connections webinar, Science Connections podcast host Eric Cross tackles the topic of ChatGPT for teachers, along with other specific AI tools that (when used with your existing standards-aligned curriculum) can help make teaching more efficient, targeted, and interactive.

AI for science can save teachers time, deepen student engagement, and inspire collaboration and creativity all around, says Science Connections podcast host Eric Cross.

Eric describes some of the many ways science teachers can use AI in the classroom—as both shortcut and partner. “We can use it for personalized learning,” he begins. “We can generate questions and give instant feedback. We can differentiate. We can support our students with special learning needs. And that’s just a start. The more you use it to collaborate with other educators, the more fun it becomes.”

Generative artificial intelligence 101

There are a lot of AI tools out there, but the new one is generative AI. As Eric explains, the difference is that generative AI—unlike, say, AI that gives you driving directions—creates something that didn’t exist before: text, images, music, and, yes, new science experiences for the classroom.

As with any technology, the practically infinite uses and applications of AI raise important questions about accuracy, equity, biases, and more. In this webinar, though, we focus only on AI’s practical uses for science teachers.

Generative AI relies on and responds to prompts.

You’re telling it to do something and it communicates back to you in human language. The way you craft your prompts determines your output, so the better your prompt is, the better your output.

– Eric Cross
Host, Science Connections; Adjunct Professor of Learning and Technology, University of San Diego

Let’s see what AI has produced for Eric as a science educator, and the kind of prompts he’s used to get there.

How science teachers can use AI to prepare and engage

Teachers can use generative AI to create personalized learning materials, generate more practice questions, and explain topics at any level and depth.

In this webinar, Eric focuses on the AI tools that have given him the most mileage as an educator and that he thinks can provide the most value for others.

These include:

  1. Modifying assessments when students have used all the ones that a curriculum provides. A sample prompt: “You are a science teacher creating an assessment for middle school students. I will upload an assessment. Please recreate it in a similar tone and voice as the original with a similar level of rigor.” Response: Brand-new multiple-choice and written questions on the same topics, all adhering to the same NGSS. With a little more back and forth, Eric will have the exact number, style, and focus of questions that he needs—along with an answer key.
  2. Creating relevant, accessible lab ideas. Eric prompts AI for lab and hands-on project ideas to fit exact specs: topic, grade level, desired outcome, and objects found in a typical classroom or home. Result: Hands-on activity ideas students can do at home, like exploring lung capacity with a balloon and a ruler (delivered by AI complete with full supply lists, instructions, and more).
  3. Helping students connect. To support a student who’s stuck, you might prompt the AI by saying: “I’m a fifth grader and my teacher is talking about claim evidence reasoning and I don’t really understand it. Can you explain it to me in a way that would help me? And then: “Now can you help me explain it to my mom, but in Spanish?”

Eric also uses AI to interpret graphs, collate student data, build graphic organizers, create science games, and more.

Is everything AI provides him flawless and 100% accurate? No, says Eric. “You have to vet, and it helps to have a high-quality curriculum already in place. But it gets me 80 to 90% there—and that’s pretty good.”

More to explore

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Amplify’s mCLASS®DIBELS® 8th Edition and mCLASS Lectura selected as the early literacy assessment tool for Colorado schools

Brooklyn, NY (February 10, 2023) — Amplify, a publisher of next-generation curriculum and assessment programs, announced today that the Colorado Department of Education (CDE) has selected mCLASS DIBELS 8th Edition and the corresponding Spanish-language assessment, mCLASS Lectura, as its K–3 interim and diagnostic assessment. The 2012 Colorado Reading to Ensure Academic Development (READ) Act provides the state with the structure and resources to ensure Colorado’s students are reading at grade level by the time they enter the fourth grade. mCLASS will serve as the state’s READ Early Learning Assessment Tool (ELAT), providing educators with immediate access to the kind of data and analysis they need in order to support their students and provide for intervention where appropriate.

“Amplify is honored to partner with CDE on this important literacy initiative,” said Krista Curran, senior vice president of state partnerships at Amplify. “When teachers are provided with a reliable diagnostic tool, they are equipped with the data to better understand how to support all students in becoming confident readers. Having the kind of data, analysis, and instruction that mCLASS offers in English and Spanish is not only nice to have but also absolutely essential.”

CDE implemented a rigorous review process for this selection. The selection committee for this solicitation included educators and assessment professionals from several districts in Colorado as well as representatives from the Dyslexia Working Group.

mCLASS offers complete parity across languages, reporting, and robust instructional guidance. After each administration of the assessment to students, educators receive granular diagnostic observations, instant targeted groups and lessons for each. With this implementation, CDE educators can be certain they will retain access to all historical and longitudinal data from previous versions of mCLASS.

mCLASS with DIBELS 8th Edition is an integrated literacy system based on the Science of Reading and validated for universal screening, progress monitoring, and screening for risk of dyslexia. DIBELS (Dynamic Indicators of Basic Early Literacy Skills), which is automated through the collection of data through the mCLASS platform, is a widely-used series of short tests developed by the University of Oregon that assess K–8 literacy. DIBELS is an observational assessment collected by teachers interacting with students one-on-one, either live or over video. The assessment is typically administered three times per year (beginning, middle, and end of year), and is used to identify reading difficulty, monitor progress, and inform instruction, especially for struggling readers.

About Amplify

A pioneer in K–12 education since 2000, Amplify is leading the way in next-generation curriculum and assessment. Our core and supplemental programs in ELA, math, and science engage all students in rigorous learning and inspire them to think deeply, creatively, and for themselves. Our formative assessment products help teachers identify the targeted instruction students need to build a strong foundation in early reading and math. All of our programs and services provide educators with powerful tools that help them understand and respond to the needs of every student. Today, Amplify serves more than 10 million students in all 50 states. For more information, visit amplify.com.

Media Contact
Kristine Frech
media@amplify.com

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New study provides evidence that assessing multilingual students in their home languages can improve educational outcomes

BROOKLYN, NY (June 27, 2024) – Amplify, a publisher of next-generation curriculum and assessment programs, today released a first-of-its-kind research brief that demonstrates the benefits of dual-language assessment in early literacy. The brief summarized a new study of 21,000 K–3 Spanish-speaking multilingual learners (MLs) who have Spanish literacy data from mCLASS® Lectura assessments and English literacy data from mCLASS DIBELS® 8th Edition assessments from the beginning, middle, and end of the 2023-2024 school year.

Findings reveal that using only English-language assessments for early literacy can lead to a higher rate of misidentifying Spanish-speaking MLs as at-risk for reading difficulties, underscoring the importance of comprehensive dual-language assessments that help educators better understand their students’ early literacy skills.

Currently, the industry relies on English-only approaches to assessment that not only underestimate a multilingual student’s reading comprehension ability, but may also give educators incomplete information to guide instructional planning for multilingual students.

“For too long, the industry has relied on an early literacy assessment standard for MLs that is, in many ways, flawed,” said Susan Lambert, chief academic officer of Elementary Humanities at Amplify. “It’s time to begin assessing MLs in English and their home language to understand their early literacy needs better and ultimately improve their educational outcomes.”

A dual-language approach for early literacy assessment has powerful implications, including:

  • Providing more accurate information about whether students need intervention
  • Giving educators a more complete understanding of students’ literacy skills, including which skills they possess in each language
  • Helping educators support students’ language development needs with more precision

“Although the availability of universal screening assessments for Spanish-speaking MLs has increased in recent years, it’s still not where it needs to be,” said Kajal Patel Below, vice president of biliteracy at Amplify. “Our hope is that this study will shed light on the extent to which the identification of reading intervention support varies for MLs when assessed in both their home language and in English.”

About Amplify

A pioneer in K–12 education since 2000, Amplify is leading the way in next-generation curriculum and assessment. Our core and supplemental programs in ELA, math and science engage all students in rigorous learning and inspire them to think deeply, creatively and for themselves. Our formative assessment products help teachers identify the targeted instruction students need to build a strong foundation in early reading and math. All of our programs and services provide educators with powerful tools that help them understand and respond to the needs of every student. Today, Amplify serves more than 15 million students in all 50 states and on six continents. For more information, visit Amplify.com.

Media Contact: Kristine Frech; media@amplify.com

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The promise of Next Generation Science Standards

The Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and other state standards like them, represent more than just new expectations—they embody a transformative vision for science education. Instead of asking students to memorize isolated facts, NGSS calls for students to think like scientists and engineers while grappling with real-world phenomena that matter to them and their communities.

This shift from learning about to figuring out develops the critical-thinking skills and problem-solving mindset students need to tackle complex challenges throughout their lives.

Two children wearing safety goggles conduct an NGSS-inspired science experiment at a table, mixing substances in clear plastic cups with plastic spoons.

Three-dimensional (3D) learning that engages and inspires

Two girls conduct a science experiment in a classroom, holding a clear cup with water and a straw, while observing and taking notes at their desks.

At the heart of NGSS lies three-dimensional learning, where Science and Engineering Practices (SEPs), Crosscutting Concepts (CCCs), and Disciplinary Core Ideas (DCIs) work together to create rich, meaningful learning experiences.

Science and Engineering Practices are the approaches and habits of real scientists and engineers: asking questions, developing models, planning investigations, and constructing evidence-based explanations and arguments. Working with these practices awakens student curiosity, drives student-centered learning, encourages deep and critical thinking, and creates opportunities for students to articulate their understanding in a variety of meaningful ways. 

Crosscutting Concepts are the big-picture thinking tools that scientists use every day. When students use Crosscutting Concepts as a lens to examine common themes in science such as patterns, cause and effect, systems, and energy, they begin to identify and connect science ideas across disciplines.

Disciplinary Core Ideas represent the essential knowledge of science. Students figure out these science ideas through their investigation of real-world scientific phenomena, and consequently develop deep understandings of science ideas.

The student experience: from passive to passionate

Four children sit at a classroom table examining a small object together, surrounded by open notebooks and colorful classroom decorations.

In three-dimensional science learning, students become active investigators, gathering evidence from multiple sources and constructing increasingly sophisticated scientific arguments and models about real-world phenomena. They engage in evidence-based debates, collaborate on engineering challenges, and make connections between their investigations and their own communities, as well as the world beyond. See it in action.

An adult and a child sit cross-legged on the floor in a classroom, reading a book together. The classroom setting includes chairs, tables, and colorful decorations.

The literacy-rich nature of NGSS instruction means students read, write, speak, and listen like real scientists and engineers, actively questioning, analyzing, and communicating findings. This integrated approach develops both scientific understanding and communication skills—skills that transfer across all subjects and even beyond the classroom.

How Amplify Science delivers as an HQIM curriculum

Amplify Science was built from the ground up to fulfill the NGSS vision and is an HQIM (high-quality instructional materials) curriculum, characterized by the following:

  • All green on EdReports. Amplify Science has been evaluated by EdReports, an independent K–12 curriculum review organization, and received the esteemed all-green rating (“meets expectations”) across all three of its gateways: Alignment to the NGSS, Coherence and Scope, and Usability. Learn more about our all-green rating.
A circular badge with the text "Read the Report" at the top, "EdReports" logo in the center, and "Review Year 2021" at the bottom.
  • The real-world anchor phenomenon is deeply woven throughout each unit as the central thread. In Amplify Science, students assume the role of a real scientist or engineer to investigate a compelling phenomena in K–5 and grades 6–8. Over the course of the unit, they gather and make sense of a variety of evidence sources and develop increasingly sophisticated explanations and models as their understanding deepens. Whether investigating a mysterious fossil discovery as geologists or designing emergency supply delivery pods as mechanical engineers, students experience the kind of work done by real scientists and engineers.  
Two boys wearing safety glasses sit at a classroom table. One holds a cup with a white liquid; the other holds a pencil and notebook. Bulletin boards with colorful labels are in the background.
  • All three dimensions of the NGSS are intentionally and thoughtfully integrated throughout every unit and across all grades. As they built Amplify Science as an HQIM curriculum, the experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science deliberately crafted each unit, chapter, and lesson with the following guiding questions in mind:
    • What do we want students to figure out (specifically, what Disciplinary Core Idea or part of a DCI)? 
    • How do we want them to figure it out (i.e., what Scientific and Engineering Practice will they engage in to reach understanding)? 
    • What Crosscutting Concept can scaffold students’ understanding and connect it to other ideas about the natural world that they have learned? 

This systematic approach ensures that every learning experience is purposefully designed to engage students in authentic scientific thinking while building connections across concepts and grades.

A teacher observes and assists a group of four students working on a science activity at a classroom table.
  • Educators receive comprehensive implementation support. Through lesson-planning resources, science background materials, built-in assessments, and expert coaching—all provided directly through Amplify—teachers are able to confidently implement the program’s NGSS-aligned, high-quality instructional curriculum with greater ease and success. 
Two women sitting at a table looking down at documents, appearing focused and engaged in discussion or review.
  • Multimodal learning experiences support all learners. Amplify Science ensures that everyone can access scientific concepts through the Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize multimodal approach that includes hands-on investigations, digital simulations, collaborative discussions, and literacy-rich activities. 
Two boys work together at a desk with a laptop and notebooks, while other students sit and work in the background.
Bar chart comparing percent growth in three skills—reading comprehension, science vocabulary, and science content knowledge—for “Business as usual” vs. “Amplify Science,” aligned with NGSS standards.

Ready to transform your science instruction with an HQIM curriculum?

Please contact your sales representative today, or download a sample unit to experience three-dimensional learning firsthand. Your future scientists, engineers, and citizens of the world are waiting!

Explore a unit

The power of high-quality instructional materials for K–8 science

A teacher helps two young students with a classroom activity involving small craft sticks at a table, demonstrating how to teach reading comprehension using engaging hands-on methods ideal for k-5 reading comprehension.

Simply put, quality teaching means quality learning. But there is another key part of the equation: quality curriculum.

Research confirms that the instructional materials used in classrooms play a powerful role in shaping how teachers teach, and how students learn.

Shifting from low-quality or pieced-together materials to well-designed, high-quality instructional materials can significantly improve student achievement. This growing evidence—sometimes described as “the curriculum effect”—is one reason that states and districts across the country are paying closer attention to the quality of the materials they adopt.

So what does high-quality instructional materials actually mean? And what does it look like in a real science classroom?

What does HQIM mean in science education?

High-quality instructional materials (often called HQIM) are curriculum materials intentionally designed to support student learning: aligned to rigorous standards, grounded in research, and built to support teachers.

High-quality instructional materials work alongside teachers, shaping instructional practices in ways that reduce guesswork, support consistency, and free up time and energy. This lets teachers do what they do best: interact with students. HQIM provide a coherent system that supports both teaching and learning over time.

And high-quality science curriculum materials go the extra mile, clearly articulating learning goals, providing guidance for facilitation and discussion, and including embedded opportunities to check for understanding. They also support a range of learners by offering scaffolds, differentiation strategies, and multiple ways for students to engage with content.

How HQIM align with NGSS science standards

The Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS) define what students should know and be able to do in science. At their core, these academic standards emphasize three-dimensional learning, integrating science practices, core ideas, and crosscutting concepts.

In science, HQIM are designed for three-dimensional learning: where students don’t just learn about science, but actively figure out how the natural world works. Three-dimensional learning integrates:

  • Science and engineering practices (what scientists do).
  • Disciplinary core ideas (what scientists know).
  • Crosscutting concepts (how scientific ideas connect).

HQIM are designed from the ground up to weave these dimensions together, rather than adding them on as an afterthought. That coherence helps students build understanding over time, and helps teachers see how each lesson fits into a larger learning story.

What do HQIM look like in a science classroom?

One of the best ways to recognize high-quality instructional content is to look not only at the materials, but also at the students using them.

Instead of memorizing disconnected facts, students taught with HQIM are engaged in the kinds of practices scientists use every day.

In classrooms using HQIM for science, you’ll often see students:

  • Investigating real-world phenomena that spark curiosity.
  • Asking questions, analyzing data, and building explanations.
  • Using evidence from multiple sources—texts, simulations, discussions, and investigations.
  • Revisiting ideas over time to deepen understanding.

“It is so encouraging to hear students engaged in conversation and building their ideas off of one another,” says classroom teacher Sarah Loessl of Big Hollow School District 38 in Illinois. “Students finding the confidence to challenge one another and use evidence to support their thinking is so much fun to watch.”

How HQIM support teachers

A key feature of high-quality instructional materials is that they’re designed by teachers, with teachers in mind.

This means materials that:

  • Clearly articulate learning goals.
  • Provide guidance for facilitation and discussion.
  • Include embedded formative assessment opportunities.
  • Support a range of learners, including multilingual/English learners and students who need additional scaffolds or challenges.

When materials shoulder this heavy lifting, teachers can spend less time creating from scratch and more time engaging with students.

How can teachers start engaging with HQIM?

Even if curriculum adoption decisions happen at the district level, teachers play a critical role in bringing HQIM to life.

Getting familiar with high-quality instructional materials can start with questions like:

  • What are students expected to figure out in this lesson?
  • How does this activity connect to a larger phenomenon or question?
  • Where are students using evidence to explain their thinking?
  • How does the curriculum support discussion, sense-making, and revision of ideas?

Developing a shared understanding of what high-quality science instruction looks like helps everyone—teachers, coaches, and leaders—move in the same direction.

Where does Amplify Science fit in?

Amplify Science is an example of high-quality instructional materials designed specifically for K–8 science and aligned to NGSS science standards.

It’s built around phenomena-based, three-dimensional learning and developed with educators, researchers, and scientists to support both student learning and teacher practice. The goal is coherence, engagement, and understanding that grows over time.

Ready to learn more?

To support educators and leaders in building a shared understanding of HQIM, we’ve created a free science HQIM resource bundle, including:

  • A classroom look-fors checklist.
  • A three-dimensional learning explainer.
  • An NGSS alignment overview.
  • A closer look at the HQIM student experience.
  • Registration for two upcoming webinars focused on HQIM in science.

Whether you’re new to the concept or ready to deepen your practice, these resources are designed to make high-quality instructional materials highly understandable and accessible to all.

Explore the HQIM bundle and upcoming webinars to learn more.

The power of productive struggle in K–5 math

A cartoon pizza cut into slices with a serving spatula in the center, flanked by colorful shapes and a cartoon animal on the right—an engaging way to spark curiosity about procedural fluency and fluency in math.

Struggling is not necessarily fun. It can be uncomfortable and frustrating. It can even feel like a great reason to give up.

But struggling and learning often go hand in hand. The key is for that struggle to be productive—for it to feel like something you worked through until you were successful, providing the confidence you need to tackle the next hard task.

That’s especially true—and essential—in math learning.

The key is productive struggle: the kind of effort that stretches students’ thinking without shutting them down. When designed intentionally, math activities for elementary students can challenge learners while still supporting confidence, curiosity, and persistence.

Here’s more about how productive struggle helps math students succeed.

What is productive struggle?

Productive struggle refers to students grappling with challenging problems that are not immediately solvable, but still within reach. It’s the space where students test ideas, make mistakes, revise strategies, and slowly build understanding.

Research shows that productive struggle helps learners move beyond surface-level memorization and toward deeper, more durable learning.

Rather than being told exactly what to do, students are encouraged to reason, explain, and persevere.

This doesn’t mean leaving students to flounder. Productive struggle requires clear goals, thoughtful scaffolds, and meaningful tasks so students know what they’re working toward and believe they can get there.

The role of growth mindset in math learning

Productive struggle is closely tied to another key idea: growth mindset.

A growth mindset is the belief that ability comes not from innate, baked-in talent, but through effort, strategies, and learning from mistakes. In the math classroom, this mindset helps students see challenges not as threats, but as opportunities.

When teachers communicate high expectations and normalize mistakes as part of learning, students are more willing to take risks. They begin to stop saying, “I can’t do this math problem,” and start saying, “I’m not there yet.”

This shift matters, especially in elementary grades. Students who develop a growth mindset early may be better equipped to avoid math anxiety and to handle increasingly complex math concepts, because they’ve learned that struggle is not a sign of failure, but part of the process.

Why struggle feels risky—and why it’s worth it

Supporting productive struggle can feel risky for teachers. Classrooms are busy. Time is limited. And no one wants students to feel frustrated or discouraged.

But avoiding struggle altogether creates its own problems. When math activities are too procedural or overly scaffolded, students may complete tasks without truly understanding them. Over time, students may come to believe that math is about following steps rather than making sense of ideas.

By contrast, well-designed struggle builds investment. Students engage more deeply when they’re asked to think, explain, and choose strategies. They develop problem-solving skills, perseverance, confidence, and a stronger sense of ownership over their learning.

What productive struggle looks like in practice

In classrooms that support productive struggle, students are actively involved, even when tasks are challenging. You might hear students explaining their reasoning, comparing strategies, or revising their thinking after a mistake.

Effective math activities for elementary students include:

  • Multiple entry points so all learners can begin.
  • Opportunities for students to explain why their strategy works.
  • Support for more than one correct approach.
  • Clear expectations paired with flexible pathways.

Even in kindergarten math activities, productive struggle for the youngest learners might look like counting, sorting, or representing numbers in different ways, paired with questions that prompt reasoning rather than quick answers.

Students need tasks that are mathematically meaningful, paired with structures that help them persist: opportunities to talk, visual representations, strategic questioning, and time to reflect.

In this way, struggle builds math muscle. Productive struggle helps students feel on top of their math game—and ready to learn more.

Why fluency matters in K–5 math education

An illustration showing a caterpillar, a hand matching shapes and colors on tiles, and another hand holding numbered cards—perfect for read-aloud math activities or exploring math in picture books with children.

If you’re fluent in Farsi, let’s say, you don’t search for every word or stop to translate every sentence in your head. You understand, process, and respond automatically, in real time.

Math fluency works the same way. This kind of fluency is something you can use naturally to understand what’s presented and respond to it meaningfully.

In K–5 math, fluency allows students to move beyond getting through the problem toward real mathematical thinking. Without it, even confident students can get stuck. With it, students gain access to deeper understanding, flexibility, and confidence.

What is math fluency?

Fluency in math is sometimes misunderstood as speed or memorization—but research and classroom experience tell a fuller story.

The National Council of Teachers of Mathematics defines procedural fluency as the ability to: “…apply procedures efficiently, flexibly, and accurately; to transfer procedures to different problems and contexts; to build or modify procedures from other procedures; and to recognize when one strategy or procedure is more appropriate to apply than another.”

In other words, the skills often referred to as computational fluency and math fact fluency tell only part of the story. Full mathematical fluency means knowing how and why strategies work, and being able to choose among them.

Memorization does have a role in math learning, but it alone does not lead to fluency. A student who has memorized facts but doesn’t understand relationships between numbers may still struggle when problems change slightly or require reasoning.

By contrast, a fluent student can adapt. They can explain their thinking, check whether an answer makes sense, and shift strategies when needed.

This is why fluency acts as a bridge between conceptual understanding and procedural application. It connects what students know to what they can do, and helps them do it with confidence.

Why procedural fluency matters in K–5 math

In the elementary grades, students are building the foundational math skills they’ll rely on for years to come. When procedural fluency is weak, students can feel overwhelmed by basic calculations, leaving little mental energy for problem-solving or new concepts.

Students without strong procedural fluency often feel stuck. For them, math can start to feel like an endless series of obstacles rather than a meaningful, engaging exploration—and that experience does not set anyone up to feel like a math person.

Fluency is what frees students up to focus on the heart of a problem. When they’re not bogged down by calculations, they’re able to reason, explore patterns, and tackle more complex tasks. Fluency opens doors—to higher-level math, to confidence, and to a more positive math identity.

In their paper, “Eight Unproductive Practices in Developing Fact Fluency,” Gina King and Jennifer Bay-Williams write: “Being fluent contributes to a productive disposition about mathematics, opens doors to a range of mathematics topics, and arms students with a skillset applicable to whatever they wish to pursue.”

What teaching math fluency looks like in the classroom

Effective K–5 math instruction treats fluency as something that develops over time, through meaningful practice, discussion, and reflection. Students need opportunities to explore number relationships, explain their thinking, and revisit strategies in different contexts.

In classrooms where math fluency is developing, instruction consistently supports flexible thinking, reflection, and revisiting ideas over time. You might see and hear the following:

  • Revisiting strategies across problems. Students are encouraged to solve the same problem in more than one way and to compare approaches. Classroom discussions focus on how strategies work and when one might be more efficient than another, helping students build strategic thinking and confidence.
  • Frequent, well-spaced opportunities for practice. Key facts and strategies reappear over time rather than being practiced once and set aside. This spacing helps students retain learning and apply it more accurately and efficiently when they encounter familiar ideas in new contexts.
  • Regular routines that emphasize reasoning. Short, consistent routines invite students to mentally compute, explain their thinking, and listen to others’ ideas. The focus is on understanding number relationships and reasoning through solutions rather than relying on memorized steps.
  • Thoughtful use of visual representations. Tools such as number lines, arrays, and other models help students see how numbers and operations relate. These representations support flexible thinking and make procedures more meaningful and accessible.

Across these experiences, fluency is something you can hear as well as see. Students explain their reasoning, reference strategies they’ve used before, and check whether their answers make sense, building accuracy, efficiency, and flexibility over time.

Math fluency helps students open their minds to the richness of math, and to their own power as math learners.

This is one of the best things I have ever worked on.

A man in a white shirt is smiling in a circular frame, with illustrations of a person swimming and a submarine on a light blue background, capturing the lively spirit of Amplify Desmos Math and engaging classroom discussions.

Every discussion teaches kids about math—and about themselves.

Among many other reasons, discussions are important because they’re moments when the teacher assigns value to students. In a discussion, the teacher says, “Hey—I have precious little time to teach what I know. Still, I’m going to dedicate some of that time for you to share and talk about what you know.” That’s a moment when students learn about math, but also that their own ideas have value.

Discussions are difficult, and “more wait time” is rarely the reason.

There are a few reasons why discussions frequently fail, and it’s rarely because the teacher didn’t give students enough “wait time” to respond, as is commonly believed.

1. The question was hard to understand or find your way into. For a long time, I’d ask my kids at dinner, “How was your day? What happened?” And my kids wouldn’t have much to say. Lately, I ask them to tell me two things about their day that happened and one thing that didn’t, and we all guess which was which. It’s an easier prompt, one that kids can find their way into with ease and then use as a launching pad into a larger conversation.

2. There isn’t enough to talk about. If your math class consists of a lot of binary, right/wrong questions, what is there for anyone to talk about? “A lot of us got this one wrong. Here’s a pie chart that shows how wrong we were. How about I show you how to do it?” That’s fine, but it isn’t a discussion, and it’s quite often a very dreary classroom environment for children.

A digital dashboard displays multiple financial charts, graphs, and filters—including pie charts and bar graphs—similar to those used in Amplify Desmos Math for middle school math classroom discussions on project profitability and billing.

In Amplify Desmos Math, a curriculum I work on, kids generally have plenty to talk about. Our interactives stir a kid’s imagination for even the most abstract areas of math. For example, this submarine interactive stirs up a kid’s ideas about adding positive and negative integers.

A yellow submarine with five round windows, each filled with a blue dot—perfect for sparking classroom discussions in middle school math. Red and blue dots sit above and below the windows, plus an anchor and lightbulb icon on the left.

And then we ask kids, “Hey, what do you think about the star at +5? Can you come up with something that none of your classmates do?”

A digital lesson in Amplify Desmos Math shows a submarine at position 0 and a star labeled 5; instructions prompt students to collect the star using unique actions, sparking engaging middle school math classroom discussions.

Let me tell you: Kids accept that challenge.

3. There is too much to talk about.

This is a good problem to have, but it’s still a problem. In the class screenshotted below, 25 students have put 300 thoughtful words in front of the teacher, every response different from every other!

A highlighted text box shows Sofia Kovalevskaya saying, "I want to add 1000 floats and then 995 anchors!!!" against a background of faded text—perfect for sparking middle school math classroom discussions with Amplify Desmos Math.

Teachers now have a problem of abundance, not scarcity. They have to decide which responses to select, and why, in an environment of cognitive overload.

This is very hard work for teachers, especially novices, especially teachers who lack mathematical content knowledge, especially teachers who are hanging onto the school year by their fingernails.

We offer teachers lots of different support for discussions throughout our curriculum—both in print and digital activities—but our new discussion support for digital activities is first-of-its-kind and best-in-class.

Discussion Moments.

  1. Student responses stream into the teacher’s dashboard.
  2. A message appears: “Analyzing Student Responses.”
  3. Shortly after, the message changes: “Open Discussion Moment.”
A green banner with the text "Analyzing student responses" and two sparkles, next to a gray computer monitor icon—perfect for facilitating Classroom discussions in middle school math with Amplify Desmos Math.

You click the message and see a classroom-ready discussion screen.

A submarine aims for a star 5 units up; students suggest combinations of floats and anchors to reach it. Amplify Desmos Math sparks engaging classroom discussions as a sidebar asks, "Are they all correct?.

First, you see four student responses, each one authored by a student in the class, each one interesting on its own. This was not luck. Those responses were curated by a large language model at the direction of our curriculum experts. “Find three responses that capture the star in different ways,” our experts prompted the AI. “Responses that add anchors. That remove anchors. Find one response that might not capture the star.”

Next to those responses you see a question: ”Which one is not like the others?” That question feels surprisingly well-matched for this math and for those student responses. This, also, isn’t an accident. Curriculum experts made that decision.

You click the right arrow and see a suggested narration for the Discussion Moment, narration which was authored, again, by our human authors for this particular problem, to help novices learn to facilitate productive discussions in math.

That’s a “Discussion Moment.”

In the past, coaches, experts, and publishers have all asked teachers to . . .

  • Select and sequence student responses.
  • Construct a student-facing discussion resource.
  • Lead the conversation.

Now we are asking teachers to . . .

  • Lead the conversation.

In our experience, computers do quite well with the first two jobs while teachers obliterate computers at the work of leading a conversation, at connecting student ideas, at asking one kid what they think of another kid’s idea, at pulling ideas out of a kid who maybe doesn’t think they have ideas to offer. Discussion Moments delegate to humans and computers the best work for each of them.

Discussion Moments are different.

Lots of edtech companies are putting AI to work in lots of different ways. Discussion Moments are unique.

First, they’re designed to work through rather than around the teacher, during class rather than outside of class. They’re designed to support social interactions between students and teachers in the moment of instruction. This is the action.

Second, this is a classroom-ready resource. So many AI applications just output a ChatGPT-style resource. Lots of text. Several main bullets. Lots of sub-bullets. An emoji or two. And I am very sorry, but they are not useful in class. The teacher has to read all of that text, copy and paste and edit it, and then construct the student-facing resource all in the middle of class. That’s fantasyland, folks. At Amplify, we have, instead, created a one-click, classroom-ready resource.

Third, we’ve fortified these digital Discussion Moments with gallons of human expertise. Since December, I’ve worked with several of our curriculum experts—Casey Nelson, Brian Kam, and Tom Snarsky—and for every problem across several units of middle school math, they:

  • Reviewed thousands of student responses to each problem.
  • Identified thematic trends in the student responses.
  • Decided whether or not those themes demand a discussion.
  • Decided which of several discussion frames would be most appropriate, given those themes.
  • Wrote an AI prompt specific to each problem to increase the odds that the large language model will curate useful student responses.
Screenshot of code-like text outlining three criteria for student responses, with bolded and underlined terms, labeled "human authored" at the top—ideal for guiding classroom discussions in middle school math or Amplify Desmos Math activities.

Most edtech companies would prefer to let AI lead this process from end to end, using the same prompt for every problem, even at the cost of the teacher and student experience. Meanwhile, we only ask AI to execute instructions and construct a resource. The nature of those instructions, the type of resource, and how it’s used—that is all determined by different humans and their expertise.

What do teachers and administrators think?

I ran a small-scale pilot of this feature last spring and kicked off a larger-scale pilot last week. A couple hundred teachers overall. I have never had an easier time recruiting teachers for a project than with this one. Every district math curriculum lead knows how challenging it is for teachers to lead discussions, and every one I asked was eager to support.

Two other examples of Discussion Moments.

Compare and Connect. We asked a large language model to locate responses that have one of a couple of important features but ideally not both. Then we constructed a Discussion Moment asking students to write a response that combines the best of both answers.

A scatter plot titled “Radius vs. Area” from Amplify Desmos Math prompts classroom discussions about proportional relationships, as middle school math students compare line types and notice the points do not form a straight line.

Critique, Correct, Clarify. Our curriculum authors noticed a frequent incorrect answer to a question. We told the LLM to watch out for it and frame it in a Discussion Moment where the class is asked to find value in the wrong answer before correcting it. Try to imagine what it does to a kid to hear their incorrect answer described as valuable.

A graph displays a purple straight line with negative slope crossing the y-axis at 4 and the x-axis at 8; text explains the equation y = -1/2x + 4, perfect for middle school math or engaging Amplify Desmos Math classroom discussions.

Wait—don’t you hate AI?

I get why you might ask me that, but no. I think generative AI is perhaps the most overrated education technology of my lifetime; I don’t think the chatbot tutors or lessonslop generators are going to transform K–12 education. But I do think generative AI is neat. And look, I have tried to support discussion work with K–12 teachers for the last ten years in other ways, too. I have run in-person and remote PD. I have written math lessons and teacher supports for those lessons. I have sent nifty little customized email sequences tailored to teacher usage. None of those supports have been as promising as AI is here. None of them has moved the needle like Discussion Moments because none of them has been able to meet teachers in their moment of need, at the point of use.

That’s it. You can find Discussion Moments in Amplify Desmos Math next school year.

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Early literacy assessment and intervention, grounded in the Science of Reading

mCLASS® is an all-in-one system for Science of Reading-based universal screening, dyslexia screening, progress monitoring, and instruction for grades K–8. Powered by DIBELS® 8th Edition, mCLASS helps you measure and strengthen the foundational skills that all students need to become confident readers.

What is mCLASS?

mCLASS, the only digital provider of DIBELS 8th edition assessments, provides universal screening, dyslexia screening and progress monitoring to assess your students on their reading trajectory and what skills they need to develop.

You’ll observe students as they form sounds or read words and text. Then, mCLASS instantly scores and analyzes student response patterns to provide you with diagnostic data and instructional focus for each student and group.

With mCLASS, you’ll have everything you need to support every type of learner in your classroom, including advanced learners, multilingual learners, and students with signs of dyslexia.

What educators say

“If you’re trying to shift the balance and move into the Science of Reading, mCLASS is going to give you a great way to group kids by skill.”

–Angela

Lufkin Independent School District, Director of Early Childhood Education

What educators say

“Getting the human brain to read is very complex, and mCLASS has helped me problem-solve with my PLC and the strategies I’m using in the classroom.”

Anne

Teacher, Wake County School District, Oakview Elementary School

What educators say

“One of the things that I think the data dashboard has really helped us to do is to work smarter not harder.”

Natalie

Supervisor of Elementary Ed, K-12 Instructional Technology and K-12 ELL, Metuchen School District

Valid and reliable DIBELS 8th Edition assessments

Developed in partnership with the University of Oregon, mCLASS DIBELS 8th Edition is founded on the strongest-ever research base for predicting reading proficiency, including identifying those at risk for dyslexia.

For more than 30 years, the University of Oregon has led the research behind DIBELS (Dynamic Indicators of Basic Early Literacy Skills). mCLASS is the only licensed digital provider of the evidence-based DIBELS 8th Edition assessment. See more of our research.

Our approach

mCLASS provides rich data to help you match Science of Reading-based instruction with your students’ precise needs. You’ll be able to monitor the effectiveness of instruction and make timely decisions when students or classrooms need extra support.

Grounded in the Science of Reading

From phonics to fluency and comprehension, mCLASS assesses the skills that are most critical for students to become successful readers. Once students are assessed, you’ll have the data you need to drive instructional decisions at the classroom, school, and district level.

  • Data you can trust, with teacher-administered assessments
  • Skill-level data aligned with the Science of Reading
  • Data-driven instructional recommendations to support intervention, remediation, and enrichment

Precise, trustworthy data through direct observation

Our approach to assessment is focused on providing you with immediate insights you can trust. Through direct observation of students and detailed reports, including assessment transcripts and diagnostic error patterns, you’ll have total transparency into each student’s performance.

Instant analysis and next steps

With mCLASS, you can interpret and act on data in real time with instant instructional guidance based on benchmark and progress-monitoring results. In one click, teachers can access differentiated skill-based groups and targeted resources to develop students’ foundational literacy skills.

A complete picture of English and Spanish biliteracy

Amplify’s Spanish language assessment, mCLASS Lectura (K–6), works in tandem with DIBELS 8th Edition’s English assessments to highlight areas of growth as students develop into bilingual readers. mCLASS Lectura provides complete parity with English mCLASS assessments, skill coverage, instructional tools, and reporting.

Ready to continue your learning journey?

Help build teacher confidence and improve effectiveness of intervention delivery with mCLASS professional development. Launch sessions help your team get up and running, while Strengthen sessions help teachers go beyond the basics.

Explore Amplify PD

Need evidence-based Tier 2 and 3 instruction?

Explore mCLASS Intervention.

Learn more

What’s included

The mCLASS program includes quick assessments of critical reading skills, real-time reporting, and data-driven instructional recommendations.

Efficient one-minute measures

DIBELS 8th Edition’s predictive one-minute assessments of phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, and comprehension are proven to identify risk as early as possible.

  • Phonological awareness
  • Alphabetic principle/phonics
  • Reading fluency
  • Reading accuracy
  • Reading comprehension

Early detection of dyslexia symptoms

With mCLASS, you can efficiently screen students and assess the full range of skills linked to dyslexia risk factors at the same time. mCLASS DIBELS 8th Edition and mCLASS Lectura are both validated as dyslexia screeners for English and Spanish, with additional Vocabulary, Spelling, RAN, and Language Comprehension measures available at no additional cost.

Learn more about mCLASS’s dyslexia screening.

Progress monitoring and goal setting

To help you target the right skills and areas of instruction, mCLASS recommends progress-monitoring measures and automatically sets meaningful, attainable goals for each student. Our Zones of Growth goal setting framework examines your student’s DIBELS scores to predict the rate of growth they need to reach end-of-year goals.

  • Automatic progress monitoring recommendations
  • Customizable goals
  • Semester and full-year growth reports

Differentiated instruction for all students

Our library of more than 500 evidence-based activities makes it easy to plan lessons that reinforce your core instruction. The embedded professional development supports consider the varied language backgrounds of all students and provide cross-linguistic transfer and language variety guidance to inform phonological awareness instruction.

One-of-a-kind dual language reporting

When you use mCLASS DIBELS 8th Edition with mCLASS Lectura, you can identify and develop students’ English and Spanish literacy skills regardless of your own Spanish-language proficiency. With the dual language report, you can see a side-by-side view of students’ assessment results and receive instructional guidance based on the data.

Educator and caregiver reports

Easy-to-use reports, ranging from classroom-level to school- and district-wide, help you evaluate each student’s reading skills over time and pinpoint exactly when a change in instruction is needed.

To reinforce learning at home, the Home Connect feature provides letters to caregivers about their child’s reading development in English and Spanish, and includes activities for reinforcement at home or on the go.

Learn more about mCLASS reporting.

Instructional alignment across all tiers

Amplify’s early literacy system ensures that you have all the core, intervention, and personalized instruction you need to support each stage of a student’s literacy journey. mCLASS data drives placement into mCLASS Intervention and Boost Reading personalized learning. It also recommends core instruction resources within Amplify CKLA core curriculum based on the skills in which students need additional practice.

Program details

Learn why dual language assessment is critical to your MTSS strategy.

Download now

Explore more programs based on the Science of Reading

Our literacy programs are designed to support and complement each other. Learn more about our related programs.

An astronaut floats in space near the Moon, with a speech bubble displaying

Amplify CKLA

The leading K–5 Science of Reading literacy program that integrates foundational…

mCLASS Intervention

mCLASS Intervention is a staff-led reading intervention that does the heavy lift…

Illustration of a colorful, stylized map showing various buildings, roads, trees, and icons with people engaged in different reading activities or roles related to the science of reading.

Boost Reading

Boost Reading is a Science of Reading K–5 personalized reading program that’s he…

See all programs

Artificial intelligence at Amplify

Amplify is committed to using artificial intelligence (AI) capabilities transparently, safely, responsibly, and ethically to deliver tools and resources that continue to fulfill our purpose. We are also committed to aiding students, teachers, and our staff with the skills and understanding required to use AI technology effectively and fairly.

Thoughtful and intentional integration of AI technology supports Amplify’s purpose by extending teachers’ reach, saving them time, enhancing their understanding of each student, and providing new ways to engage students in powerful and rigorous learning experiences.

At the core of our work is our belief that these technologies, if used wisely, can support teachers in creating the kind of classroom experiences every student deserves—collaborative, interesting, and personalized.

Amplify’s AI principles

Governance and risk management: Amplify is developing and maintaining a governance and risk-management program aligned to EDSAFE AI Alliance’s S.A.F.E. Benchmarks Framework and the NIST AI Risk Management Framework, which includes internal policies and procedures to support compliance and safe and responsible use of AI. Amplify’s program guides the design, development, deployment, and overall implementation of AI in Amplify’s products and the tools used in Amplify’s operations. The governance program applies both to Amplify-developed capabilities and third-party development and integrations.

Amplify aligns to EDSAFE AI Alliance’s S.A.F.E. Benchmarks Framework as follows:

SAFETY: Uphold privacy, security, and reliability.
ACCOUNTABILITY: Be human-centered, responsive to human guidance, and transparent.
FAIRNESS AND TRANSPARENCY: Avoid creating or reinforcing unfair bias, and assess for impact.
EFFICACY: Be purposeful and rigorous.

Privacy and security: Amplify ensures that privacy protections are included by default in AI systems, including ensuring that data collection conforms to reasonable expectations and that only data strictly necessary for the specific context is collected, in conformance with our policies around the collection, use, and sharing of personal information. Amplify’s applications use student personal information solely for the purpose of performing the service, in alignment with Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) and applicable state law and district policies and contracts. In addition, Amplify monitors security risks specific to AI systems, including dataset poisoning, prompt injection, and adversarial attacks, and shores up resilience against attempts to alter use, behavior, or performance, or to compromise security properties. Read more about Amplify privacy and security programs.

AI in Amplify’s products and services

Amplify uses AI in our programs in ways that respond to the demonstrated needs of districts, teachers, and students and that meet our high standards for safety, accountability, fairness, and efficacy. Amplify has established an AI Center of Excellence, with AI scientists, engineers, product managers, and designers dedicated to establishing best practices and guiding development in key areas that meet these criteria. 

Some ways Amplify leverages AI in products and services:

Amplify ELA: Amplify ELA’s Automated Writing Evaluation (AWE) tools give teachers the ability to understand, track, and support student progress with key foundational skills, which are strong indicators of students’ analytic writing proficiency. Developed in conjunction with the Writing Prompts in Amplify ELA, AWE assesses student writing for Focus, Use of Evidence, and Conventions, providing critical feedback for teachers and data for Amplify’s writing reports.

Boost Reading: Students in grades K–5 may take the Boost Reading Benchmark Assessment to determine their placement in Boost when they first log in. Students receive a set of word recognition, fluency, and comprehension activities, supported by automatic speech recognition.

Boost Math: Personalized Learning activities feature Spark, a virtual tutor that uses text-to-speech to provide personalized, engaging support to help students build mastery. The tutor incorporates student numerical responses in its conversation, but does not use student personal information.

How asset-based assessments can revolutionize math instruction

A student writes in a notebook at a desk with a laptop, as her awesome teacher stands beside her. Both appear engaged in conversation about her academic struggles during ELA class.

Many of today’s math classrooms are facing a perfect storm: declining scores, widening learning gaps, and growing pressure on teachers to deliver solutions. According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, students are experiencing the steepest drop in math scores since 1990. EdWeek Research Center reports that a persistent gap between educational theory and day-to-day practice is putting added stress on teachers, often leaving them to navigate complex pedagogical demands without adequate support.

So how can we provide both students and teachers with the tools they need to succeed? How can math assessments and math intervention programs provide real help and drive student progress—without piling on more work?

One promising answer lies in rethinking how we assess what students know.

Rethinking the role of math assessments

Traditional assessments tend to focus on correctness alone. Did the student get it right or wrong? How many points did they earn?

But this binary approach misses a lot. A skipped question could mean a tech hiccup or a moment of confusion—not a lack of understanding. A wrong answer might come at the end of otherwise solid problem-solving.

An asset-based assessment approach shifts the focus from mistakes to meaning. It looks beyond outcomes to understanding how students think—their strategies, reasoning, and partial understandings. And when teachers can see that thinking, they gain far more useful data to guide instruction and inform their math intervention program.

This approach doesn’t lower expectations—it raises the quality of insight and gives struggling students (and really all students) a better shot at meeting standards with instruction that’s tailored to their actual needs.

Honoring students’ thinking and teachers’ time

Every student thinks differently. Asset-based assessments help reveal individual thinking, often through short-answer or open-response formats that ask students to explain how they solved a problem.

But this shift isn’t just for students. Teachers can benefit enormously when assessments are designed to surface trends in student thinking. If 30% of a class misinterprets the same concept, that result reveals a teaching opportunity. Rather than reteach an entire unit, teachers can adjust with focused, targeted support. That means less time spent diagnosing, and more time actually helping.

And when technology in the math classroom makes this data easy to collect, analyze, and act on, teachers get a level of consistent insight that is not only helpful, but actionable.

From student performance to student performance + thinking

The ultimate goal of asset-based assessments isn’t to replace performance data—it’s to enhance it. Knowing how a student got to an answer (or why they didn’t) can make all the difference in determining what to do next.

Here’s an example involving a division problem:

A wooden table with four chairs is shown. Text explains each table seats 4, the art class has 33 students, and asks how many tables are needed—an example of using technology in the math classroom to boost student engagement.

When real students were given this problem, they responded with answers like:

  • 33/4 = 8.25, round up to 9 so all kids can sit!
  • 33/4 = 8 with a remainder of 1. She needs 8 tables.
  • 8 x 4 = 32, but 9 x 4 = 36. I don’t know if we can leave one student sitting lonely on the floor, though.

Traditional grading might stop at “correct” or “incorrect” for these responses. But when students are asked to explain their thinking, teachers can uncover a range of reasoning—from successful multiplication strategies to misunderstandings about remainders.

These glimpses into student thinking aren’t just informative—they’re transformative. They can illuminate the performance of students in a deeper, more actionable way. They can help teachers take smarter next steps, and they can help students feel understood, capable, and more like “math people” every day.

More to explore

Inspiring the next generation of South Carolina scientists, engineers, and curious citizens

Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning.

Amplify Science was developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify.

Collage showing students engaged in classroom science activities and two scientific illustrations: a cheetah in foliage and a diagram of clouds and raindrops above a hill.

Our Instructional model

The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:

DO
First-hand investigations are an important part of any science classroom, and Amplify Science has students getting hands-on in every unit, from building models of protein molecules to experimenting with electrical systems.

TALK
Student-to-student discourse and full class discussions are an integral part of the program. Students are provided with numerous opportunities to engage in meaningful oral scientific argumentation, all while fostering a collaborative classroom environment.

READ
Students read scientific articles, focusing their reading activities on searching for evidence related to their investigation, and importantly, on asking and recording questions as they read through fascinating texts on 21st-century topics.

WRITE
Following real-world practices, students write scientific arguments based on evidence they’ve collected, making clear their reasoning about how a given piece of evidence connects to one of several claims.

VISUALIZE
By manipulating digital simulations and using modeling tools to craft visualizations of their thinking— just as real scientists and engineers do—students take their learning far beyond the confines of what they can physically see in the classroom in an exciting and authentic way.

Explore the Digital Teacher’s Guide

When you’re ready to review, click the orange button below and use your provided login credentials to access the Amplify Science Digital Teacher’s Guide. If you need login credentials, contact Jeff Rutter, jrutter@amplify.com.

Review now

Resources to support your review

Scope and sequence

GRADE
UNIT
Kindergarten
  • Needs of Plants and Animals
  • Pushes and Pulls
  • Sunlight and Water
Grade 1 
  • Animal and Plant Defenses
  • Light and Sound
  • Spinning Earth
Grade 2 
  • Plant and Animal Relationships
  • Properties of Materials
  • Changing Landforms
Grade 3 
  • Balancing Forces
  • Inheritance and Traits
  • Environments and Survival
  • Weather and Climate
Grade 4 
  • Energy Conversions
  • Vision and Light
  • Earth’s Features
  • Waves, Energy, and Information
Grade 5 
  • Patterns of Earth and Sky
  • Modeling Matter
  • The Earth System
  • Ecosystem Restoration
Grade
Units

Grade 6
  • Launch: Microbiome
  • Metabolism
  • Metabolism Engineering Internship
  • Thermal Energy
  • Plate Motion
  • Plate Motion Engineering Internship
  • Rock Transformations
  • Weather Patterns
  • Ocean, Atmosphere, and Climate

Grade 7
  • Launch: Harnessing Human Energy
  • Phase Change
  • Phase Change Engineering Internship
  • Magnetic Fields
  • Earth’s Changing Climate
  • Earth’s Changing Climate Engineering Internship
  • Chemical Reactions
  • Populations and Resources
  • Matter and Energy in Ecosystems

Grade 8
  • Launch: Geology on Mars
  • Earth, Moon, and Sun
  • Light Waves
  • Force and Motion
  • Force and Motion Engineering Internship
  • Traits and Reproduction
  • Natural Selection
  • Natural Selection Engineering Internship
  • Evolutionary History

South Carolina College- and Career-Ready Science Standards 2021

Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS), and the South Carolina College- and Career-Ready Science Standards 2021 are closely aligned to the NGSS at K-8. The guidance below is meant to provide support for integrating additional companion activities that support full coverage of the South Carolina College- and Career-Ready Science Standards 2021.

Organized by grade level, each section below will outline:

  • Additional activities that support 100% alignment to the  South Carolina College- and Career-Ready Science Standards 2021; 
  • The standard being addressed with the activities; 
  • The recommended placement of the activities within a specific Amplify Science unit; and 
  • PDFs of any accompanying materials that are necessary to implement the activities.

Standard: MS-PS1-4: Develop a model that predicts and describes changes in particle motion, temperature, and state of a pure substance when thermal energy is added or removed.
Recommended placement: Thermal Energy unit, Lesson 4.4, addition to Activity 3
Materials: “Liquid Oxygen”
By reading the article “Liquid Oxygen,” which describes how the relationship between attraction and kinetic energy determines when a substance changes phase, students extend their understanding of the possible effects of adding or removing thermal energy to include changes in state (phase). Oxygen is one of the most common elements in the world, but most people are only familiar with oxygen in the gas phase. Because oxygen molecules are only weakly attracted to one another, condensing oxygen is difficult. This article introduces students to molecular attraction and discusses its role in phase change, including how it can be used to turn oxygen from a gas to a liquid.
Instructions:
Download PDFs of the “Liquid Oxygen” and distribute it to students. Before they begin reading, remind students of the Active Reading Guidelines. 

Standard: MS-PS4-2: Develop and use a model to describe that waves are reflected, absorbed, or transmitted through various materials.
Recommended placement: Weather Patterns unit, Lesson 4.4, addition to Activity 3
Materials: “Harvesting Sunlight”, “Why No One in Space Can Hear You Scream” and “Making Waves at Swim Practice”
After investigating weather patterns, which includes a focus of the effects of energy from sunlight, students extend their learning about light by reading three articles about light and other waves.
“Harvesting Sunlight:” Students read this article to learn about the types of light from the sun that plants use for photosynthesis. The article describes how the sun emits all types of light, but plants can only use certain types of visible light for photosynthesis, mostly red and blue light. Plants also absorb other types of light, and these types of light affect plants in different ways. Students use this information to gather evidence that there are different types of light that can affect a material in different ways.
“Why No One in Space Can Hear You Scream:” Students read this article to learn about how waves are transmitted. Explosions that would be deafening on Earth are silent in space. This is because sound is produced by sound waves and, unlike light waves, sound waves need matter to travel through. Reading about this phenomenon helps students understand the similarities and differences between mechanical and electromagnetic waves.
“Making Waves at Swim Practice:” A practice for the school swim team provides an everyday context for discussing light waves and sound waves in this engaging article. First, the article explores sound waves traveling through different materials–the air, the water of the pool, and even a metal poolside bench. Students discover that sound waves travel at different speeds in different materials. The later part of the article discusses light waves, which also travel at different speeds in different materials. As light waves move from one material to another, they change speed and bend. This bending of light waves is called refraction, and it explains why objects that are partly in the water and partly out of the water (such as the legs of a person sitting on the side of a pool) appear ripply and bent.
Instructions:
Plan one class period for each article. Download PDFs of the  “Harvesting Sunlight,” “Why No One in Space Can Hear You Scream,” and “Making Waves at Swim Practice” articles. For each article, before students begin reading, preview the article and discuss what students already know and what they wonder about the topic, then remind students of the Active Reading Guidelines. 

Standard: MS-PS2-3: Ask questions about data to determine the factors that affect the strength of electric and magnetic forces. MS-PS2-5: Conduct an investigation and evaluate the experimental design to provide evidence that fields exist between objects exerting forces on each other even though the objects are not in contact.
Recommended placement: Harnessing Human Energy unit, Lesson 3.4, after Activity 1
Materials: “Earth’s Geomagnetism” and “Painting with Static Electricity”
After concluding their investigations of energy transfers and conversions, students read two articles that introduce the topic of forces that act at a distance.
“Earth’s Geomagnetism:” What makes a compass needle point north, no matter what? This article introduces students to Earth’s geomagnetic field and the field lines scientists use to show its direction.
“Painting with Static Electricity:” This article gives students the opportunity to learn about electrostatic fields and forces in the context of spray painting without making a mess. Electrostatic painting systems use electrostatics to draw spray paint toward the object being painted, and nowhere else. Painters charge the object they are painting with a negative charge and the paint with a positive charge. The opposite charges are attracted to one another, causing the paint to move toward the object. This surprising use of electrostatics saves time and paint and keeps things tidy!
Instructions
Plan one class period for each article. Download PDFs of the “Earth’s Geomagnetism” and “Painting with Electricity” articles. For each article, before students begin reading, preview the article and discuss what students already know and what they wonder about the topic, then remind students of the Active Reading Guidelines. 

What’s included

Science articles
The middle school science articles serve as sources for evidence collection and were authored by science and literacy experts at the Lawrence Hall of Science.

Illustration of the indirect effects of overfishing on northern benguela jelly populations displayed on a laptop screen.

Student Investigation Notebooks
Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks provide space for students to:

  • Record data
  • Reflect on ideas from texts and investigations
  • Construct explanations and arguments

Available with full-color article compilations for middle school units.

Collection of educational books from 'amplify science' on topics including ocean atmosphere, matter and energy ecosystems, and insect interactions, displayed in various angles.

Digital student experience
Students access the digital simulations and modeling tools, as well as lesson activities and assessments, through the digital student experience. Students can interact with the digital student experience as they:

  • Conduct hands-on investigations
  • Engage in active reading and writing activities
  • Participate in discussions
  • Record observations
  • Craft end-of-unit scientific arguments
A digital illustration showcasing a laptop and a tablet displaying complex data analysis software interfaces with graphs and heatmaps.

Teacher’s Guides
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • Classroom Slides
  • Detailed lesson plans
  • Unit and chapter overview documentation
  • Differentiation strategies
  • Standards alignments
  • In-context professional development
A laptop displaying a website about Mars exploration with a brochure next to it. Both screens show Mars-related images.

Hands-on materials kits
Hands-on learning is at the heart of Amplify Science. Each unit kit contains:

  • Consumable and non-consumable hands-on materials
  • Print classroom display materials
  • Premium print materials for student use (sorting cards, maps, etc.)
A perforated rectangular board, three small containers with different powders, a black battery holder with red wires, and three colored alligator clips are arranged on a white background.

Remote and hybrid learning supports

A person sitting at a desk using a laptop, with a bookshelf containing books, a fish tank, and a soccer ball nearby.

Amplify has launched a new remote learning solution called Amplify Science@Home. Intended to make extended remote learning and hybrid learning easier, Amplify Science@Home includes two useful options for continuing instruction: @Home Videos and @Home Units. 

Amplify Science @Home Videos are recordings of real Amplify Science teachers teaching the lessons. For those teachers who are unable to meet synchronously with their students, the recorded lessons are a great way to keep their students on track and engaged with Amplify Science while at home. These videos will be produced for all K–5 units, and for the first four units of each 6–8 grade level. Their release will be rolling, beginning in August.   

Amplify Science@Home Units are modified versions of Amplify Science units, strategically designed to highlight key activities from the program. The @Home Units take significantly less instructional time than the complete Amplify Science program and allow students to engage with science at home. @Home Units will be developed for all Amplify Science K–8 units. Each @Home unit includes:

  • Teacher overviews explaining how to use the materials, including suggestions for enhancing the @Home Units if synchronous learning or in-class time with students is available.
  • Overviews to send home to families.

Student materials are available in two formats:

  • @Home Slides (PDF/PPT) + Student Sheets (PDF) for students with access to technology at home.
  • Downloadable @Home Packets (PDF) for students without access to technology at home.

Download the Remote and hybrid learning guide.

Looking for help?

Powerful (and free!) pedagogical support

Amplify provides a unique kind of support you won’t find from other publishers. We have developed an educational support team of former teachers and administrators who provide pedagogical support for every Amplify curriculum, assessment, and intervention program. This service is completely free for all educators who are using our programs and includes:

  • Guidance for developing lesson plans and intervention plans
  • Information on where to locate standards and other planning materials
  • Recommendations and tips for day-to-day teaching with Amplify programs
  • Support with administering and interpreting assessment data and more

To reach our pedagogical team, use our live chat within your program, call (800) 823-1969, or email edsupport@amplify.com

Timely technical and program support

Our technical and program support is included and available from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday, through a variety of channels, including a live chat program that enables teachers to get immediate help in the middle of the school day.

For your most urgent questions:

  • Use our live chat within your program
  • Call our toll-free number: (800) 823-1969

For less urgent questions:

Email support

Contact us

Contact your South Carolina team representatives:
Jeff Rutter
Field Manager
jrutter@amplify.com
(727) 512-8440

Cathy McMillan
Senior Account Executive
cmcmillan@amplify.com
(904) 465-9904